2011 Crop No Flop

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Slew — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:43:41 GMT

Age of Reason: Well stated. Unfortunately, coldfacts tries to present his opinions as facts.

He once stated that well raced mares were less likely to be productive of winning progeny.

And coldfacts ignored us even when we were quick to point out Urban Sea and Personal Ensign as prime blue hen debunkers of his statements.

Some folks are simply too wrapped up in their own opinion to pay attention to real facts.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Slew — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 13:40:53 GMT

I always said this was a very good crop, but some couldn't see it because there were so many equally talented colts and fillies. A different horse was winning each the Derby preps, and no one horse stood out above the others.

But now...their talent is blossoming...and aren't we, as fans, thrilled to see them emerge.

Congratulations on Mandy's engagement. It was the perfect City on the perfect day. (I know...I fell in love with New Orleans so long ago. My daughter still lives there. She also fell in love with NOLA and the people who live there.)

What a beautiful, perfect site for a proposal!

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Paula Higgins — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 00:17:34 GMT

Just so everyone knows, you CAN vote for Paynter by writing him in on the Vox Populi Award on the Secretariat.com site. Alot of people complained because Paynter wasn't listed by the nominating committee. So this was the fix, which works for me. So please, consider voting for Paynter by writing him in. This is such a deserving horse and his connections are as well.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Age of Reason — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 20:51:55 GMT

Coldfacts:

On the argument of whether or not a hard racing career can make or break stallion potential, I must respectfully disagree. Genetically, Shackleford is the same today, and will be the same until his dying day, as he was from conception. As I'm sure we would agree, it is a stallion's genes which determine his potential at stud--words like "prepotent" and "dominant", "homozygous" and "heterozygous" spring to mind. I've never read any scientific evidence which might suggest that Shackleford's, or any breeding horse's, genes (specifically the way those genes express themselves when being passed on to offspring), which will control whether or not he makes a good stallion, could be in any way affected by the rigors of athletic training. Respectfully, I think you may have fallen into the very tempting logical fallacy of "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc"--"After this, therefore because of this". A post-hoc fallacy is a leap in logic which assumes that, if event B follows event A, then there must be a causal relationship between the two events when that isn't necessarily the case at all. It would be like a high scool student who gets an A on their exam and thinks, "Gee, I ate at McDonald's on my way to the test, and I got an A; I must have gotten an A because I ate at McDonald's before the test!" I think you may be making the same mistake in your hypothesis about lightly-raced stallions making better sires; just because stallion ABC only ran a couple times and made a better stallion, whereas stallion XYZ ran for four years and didn't do very hot at stud, does not mean that their potential for success (or lack thereof) was affected by their racing career. But of course, that's just my opinion, and I respect the obviously-well-thought-out manner in which you came to your opinion also.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Groupie Doll — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:51:07 GMT

longtimeracingfan:

Nicanor will stand stud next year at Shamrock Farms in Woodbine, Maryland. The farm was founded by Art Rooney of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

TerriZ — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:31:19 GMT

Well Shack, the Iron Horse, has retired. And if breeders want soundness, a great pedigree, speed, and a horse that can run a mile and change, Shack is a great bargain. It only costs $20,000 to breed to a grade one winner related to Roberto, Dr. Fager, and Storm Cat.

Shack represents a great opportunity to improve the soundness of thoroughbreds.

By the way, I was wrong about Roman's racing schedule. He is at Gulfstream. A raffle is being held to see Little Mike along with Dale Romans at Gulfstream.

50 winners will be chosen to participate on Dec 16th. The $1 raffle tickets, to benefit retired thoroughbreds and disabled jockeys will be sold at Gulfstream.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Annir — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 04:19:50 GMT

Steve what are your opinions on the Vox Popli (Or whatever spelling it is) nominees? I must say I am not too happy...I took this award to mean a horse that was special throughout the season to the fans/people in racing. Other than I'll Have Another it seems like the nominees are pretty much just going to be the champions this season...not really the "peoples" horses.

Without a doubt I thought Shackleford would be on there! He had a huge fan base, danced every dance, had wonderful connections which allowed meet and greets with him before the Breeders Cup. Or what about Paynter? Such a courageous horse who really seemed to mean a lot to so many people. Watching his recovery, him fighting so darn hard, and seeing how amazing he's doing now were some of the best moments this year. Ugh maybe I'm just a big sap.... Just so disappointed with the nominees. End rant.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

steve from st louis — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 22:55:57 GMT

Mazel Tov on your daughter's engagement. I'm sure Mandy fell in love with a good do'er. Nothing but the best. Speaking of nothing but the best, what about In Lingerie going to Frankel? That's a match made in the winner's circle. I hope they name the foal, male or female, "Bobby Sox".

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Dr Drunkinbum — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 21:04:15 GMT

The New York Yankees are moving to Japan.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Coldfacts — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 15:40:17 GMT

I will concede that I have constantly engaged in nonsense. My greater crime is the fact that I share my nonsense with others. Let me reassure all that it’s not an attempt to be controversial.

I have repeatedly written about the success of the Raise A Native sire line. The reason I do this to the annoyance of many is due to the fact that I am still searching for answers for its success.

Raise A Native made on 4 starts and subject to correction none were beyond 5 ½ F. He either equaled or set NTR in three of those starts. For his exploits he secured the title of Champion 2-Year Old Colt. Did the injury that ended his career rob us of a potentially great thoroughbred or did it lay the foundation for what has become the RAN stallion dynasty.

His four prominent sons sired the winners of 7 Triple Crown races and stallions connected to those sons have accounted for the winners of 41 TC races. If the Derby/Preakness winner sired by RAN is included, it brings to 50 the total number of TC races won horses sired from his dynasty.

Why mention Raise A Native a horse that was foaled in 1961? Here is a classic case of a well-bred lightly race stallion whose stallion line continues to dominate international racing 50 year after he commence stud duties. Who could have imagined that a horse that spent so little time on the track and at sprint distances could have such an impact in the breeding shed? Another brilliant, lightly race sire was Danzig. Although Mr. Prospector made 14 starts, he was never required to lay his body down over 75 3//4F in a span of eight races. Street Cry only made 8 starts and in his first two seasons he sires horses that won the Derby , Melbourne Cup and Breeder Cup Classic. It might appear that I have again tailored the facts to support a case for lightly race stallions as opposed to those that had long hard careers. This would be a reasonable assessment. I am sure a list of stallions that had hard knocking careers can be presented in rebuttal but none will have the legacy of Raise A Native.

Are the most successful stallions the ones that did not have hard and stressful careers? I have not accumulated sufficient data to give an informed opinion. What I can state is that the one associated with the most success sire line made only four starts. How significant is the number and the nature of starts? Undetermined! However, if Shackleford were an orange no one would dispute that this orange had been squeezed dry in the 75 ¾ furlongs covered in 8 races.

I wish the stallion to be well but I cannot help but think that a stallion career was an afterthought for connections. If were a farm owner Shackleford would be way down on my list of new recruits due to his road well-travelled.

On the subject of names I like ‘Shackademus’

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Davids — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 00:28:18 GMT

It's amazing what nerves can make you, unwittingly do. Funny story. Yes, the perennial 'bad crop' is here to say.

Original thought, after all, takes time and contemplation. Who has time for thought with the internet ratcheting up the next 'story' before the past disappears in the blink of the eye.

Steve, with that in mind, have you had time to fashion a 'Derby Dozen' yet? I have a rough 'baker's dozen which doesn't include the 2 year old champ.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Linda in Texas — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 20:22:26 GMT

What a treat to open up my computer every day, first tab i hit is Bloodhorse.com/Blogs/Hangin'With Haskin. Voila!

And here i find all the amusement in the world. The names for Shackleford's babies to be are clever. Poor guy isn't even finished relishing his great wins and we have him in "the shed."

Now i am thinking up names. I guess we will have to take into consideration the dam occasionally.

So far i like Sugar Shack for a filly and Mack The Shack for a colt.

Have a nice week end folks, and ABF hope you and all those affected by Sandy are finding a little more of civilization each day. No more trips to Cape May for a while i presume. I hope the Lighthouse survived off the tip of NJ across the waters from Cape May.

Be safe. Thanks Steve.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Ted from LA — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 20:15:35 GMT

Love Shack.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

longtimeracingfan — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:16:45 GMT

Methinks Zenyatta is the one who is presently 8 years old... and there are older siblings to her, so "V and Tapit" and "V and Bernie" might have been cougar combos awhile back, but both Bernie and Tapit now have sons standing, so... not such teenage boys anymore.

STEVE!!! I have a request for you. Next time you are in Lexington it would be wonderful if you could visit Calumet in its current incarnation and do an article or blog (with photos!!) on them. Hopefully you would meet the three young stallions who will hold court there next year... one of them being Lentenor. And one other leeeetle question, I can't find anything on Nicanor, know he is retired, but where is he?? And what is he doing?? Thanks to ANYONE who can shed some light...

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Alex'sBigFan — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 05:02:41 GMT

How about Oatsee and Frankel?

Oats&Franks

Frankoat

Hey wait a minute, if Vertigineux is about 8 or 9 years old and they bred her to Bernardini to get Elbouissante, does that make her a cougar?????? Go Vertigineux!!!!!!

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Alex'sBigFan — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:57:58 GMT

Dr. D.,

Cute! We'll add Love Shack and

Jack of all Shacks! Pour me a glass of white wine and we can dream up names all night!!! Happy weekend. Wish I was in sunny southern Cal., it's like 37 degrees as I write this, UGH!!!!!

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Bigtex — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:36:37 GMT

Would we get "Shackatta" from Shackleford and Zenyatta?

Or Rachelford?

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Bigtex — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:32:55 GMT

Steve, but had it been Suzie Kolber…??? I know, I know you don't want it on record!

Shackleford will have:

Shack n Jive

Shack's Lil Taz

Shack's Cadillac

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Dr Drunkinbum — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 02:10:24 GMT

Two more and that's it !!!

Shackadellic

Unshackled

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Dr Drunkinbum — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 01:37:28 GMT

Alex'sBigFan

Sugar Shack

Shack the Knife

Shack Shake

Shacklefordski

Readymadeshack

Shacknsack

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Alex'sBigFan — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 22:46:48 GMT

Dr. D.,

Too funny about Shackleford being "shacked up a lot." Definitely agree about Hard Spun's prowess as a sire. He's got to be near the top of the sire list. His daughter, Questing, is rated even better than him per the Darley website. I went flying there after reading Hard Spun stuff here, apparently he is shuttled to Australia and Street Sense too because they both come up in the stallion list at Darley USA and Darley Australia at Northwood Park and Kelvinside respectively. More little shuttlebutts abounding from those trips I assume! Hard Spun was my second favorite equine of all time. He is a looker for sure, has got speed and soundness. Maybe a modern day ironhorse.

I keep thinking of the lady I met at Belmont Park recently who was crazy about Shack. She was all dressed in Shack's silk colors, hat and all. She had all kinds of Shack paraphernalia and was giving out Shack bracelets to fans. She was fun and I told her she ought to go talk to Dale Romans. She says to me, "Oh we do, he thinks we're crazy!!!" In a nice kind of way she meant. I am thinking of her because she must be heartbroken about Shack's retirement. Hope she gets to visit Shack. He was a beautiful color, resembled Curlin and Secretariat, sometimes looked like a quarterhorse, was gutsy and determined and he will be missed.

Baby Names:

Spin Out

Spun Silk

Turkospin

Whirling Dervish

Shackin' Up

The Shack Attack

Mack The Shack

What will get us through the winter now? I know! Steve with Zenyatta visits, Paynter visits, Smarty stories, etc. until the Derby preps begin!!!

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

JerseyBoy — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:26:41 GMT

This was an excellent review Steve. Nice to see the horses stayed in training as 4yos.

However, I see some comments about the duration of a horse’s racing career and his success at stud. I never thought there was any connection.

Danzig and Malibu Moon had brief careers. Northern Dancer made 18 starts. Storm Cat made 8 starts.

At the other extreme we have Dynaformer who made 30 starts and Stay Gold, sire of Orferve, the Japanese Triple Crown winner. Stay Gold made 50 starts. Both must have had tough races because they were beaten several times.

This is a non-issue as far as I can see.

I think Stay Thirsty and To Honor and Serve will do well.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Paseana — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 05:56:26 GMT

On the topic at hand, horseplayers are notoriously negative in their opinions. It does seem that 3yos have to look like the 2nd coming (fill in the blank as to who) in order to get positive reviews.

I really think that the rise of "numbers" and the fact that they are so easily accessed has a lot to do with it. The consensus seems to be that if no horse in a particular crop of 3yos has been able to earn a BSF of over, say 103, that means that they are a bunch of plugs. OK, whatever.

Steve, you have pointed out that this "bunch of plugs" from 2011 have acquitted themselves quite well, thank you very much! I'm really glad that you spoke up!

And congratulations to your beloved daughter Mandy.....may the happiness she has now be only a smidgen of what is to come!

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

Dr Drunkinbum — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 02:40:53 GMT

Pedigree Ann

I am sure that there are many successful sires who were tough customers with strenuous careers. As far as the Derby is concerned you always have to judge the fractions and performance in relation to the track surface and other races run that day. Hard Spun was superb in The Derby 2007, leading most of the way before being overtaken by Street Sense. Hard Spun gave it his all and is going to be a very successful sire. His Derby fractions were 22.96, 46.26. 1:11.13, 1:37.04. He lost by 2 1/2 lengths, the final winning time was 2:02.17. Shackleford led most of the way in Derby 2011 with fractions of 23.24, 48.63, 1:13.40, 1:37.49. He finished in 4th place losing by about 3 1/2 lengths. He had tough race after tough race for a long time. Very few horses nowadays can survive his rigorous schedule. As far as Derby's are concerned, the amazing one as far as fractions is Bodemeister this year. He led most of the way, only losing by 1 1/2 lengths. Fractions-22.32, 45.39, 1:09.80, 1:35.19. The winning time was 2:01.83. I was looking forward since 2007 to Hard Spun's career as a sire. I am looking forward to Shackleford's career as a sire. He'll be shacked up a lot. He'll be very popular with the ladies. I'm really looking forward to Bodemeister's career as a sire, out of Empire Maker, with his speed and stamina, is going to be a very popular sire and I expect his offspring to do very well.

re: 2011 Crop No Flop

sceptre — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:49:04 GMT

Your title reminds me of:

"Sugar Pops Are Tops".