Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

pbuu — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:37:03 GMT

some people have no clue what a pedigree is.... go to chefderace and learn a bit before saying hes a miler sorry to rain on your uneducated brain parade but this horse vyjack should and can go 1 1/2 says hes numbers thats that.look into the pedigree on the female side any breeder of livestock wil tell you its all about the females.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

The Seer — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:37:09 GMT

I am as big a believer in Beyer figures as anyone, especially when it comes to handicapping the Derby. However, in Vyjack's case, I'm willing to overlook the 93. What interests me the most is the way he inhaled the field coming from behind in a race that had no pace. You don't see that every day. It's one thing to come from the clouds when they're going :22, :45 and 1:09, but what Vyjack did was remarkable. Plus, he ran against the track bias and against his preferred running style.

Count me in. I hope he runs a good second or third in the Wood. Gimme 10-1 on Derby Day and I'm all over him.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Owlbet — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:05:59 GMT

Vyjack has really piqued my interest. What stands out for me is Vyjack was (as far as I can tell) completely under a hand ride. That in itself is impressive.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Cassandra.Says — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:25:40 GMT

An example of what might be useful comment on Haun's X-Factor theory: all runners in all species have enlarged hearts. It's a training effect. Secretariat's other muscles were enlarged, why not his heart? Greyhounds' hearts are bigger than average dogs' hearts.

But there is definitely something going on with broodmare sires like Gay Crusader and Secretariat and with Princequillo mares. Not only did a PQ mare produce a Bold Ruler that won a classic or three, which, as Steve notes, most of the racing fraternity thought was impossible, another one produced a Northern Dancer that wired a field in the Sunset Hcp. over two miles running the final quarter in 23 and 1. Northern Dancer "stout"?

Trying to figure out what genes are being expressed when we observe such phenomena may go off the rails, but is not an endeavour to be sneered at.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Cassandra.Says — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:50:45 GMT

Come on, Tom, it's not kindergarten. I'm sure many of us are willing to be enlightened even by means of a debate.

Of course, "Is NOT. Nyeh, nyeh, nyeh," does not constitute debate.

This is just mindless meandering. What are "THEY" who all go back to PQ? Certainly not Derby winners. Only subset I can think of is "horses with *quillo in their names."

P.A. may be having a bad day. She also said earlier something like: you get what you breed for which is why Derby winners have bad pedigrees.

Figure that one out.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Old Old Cat — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 00:02:29 GMT

Another great story. A horse that likes the fillies gets cut so that he can be handled at the track. Like Kelso. The irony is if he wins enough to warrant becoming an expensive stud, he can't do it... Like Kelso.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

tom mallios — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 02:58:15 GMT

pedigree ann.i am sure you are well versed in breeding.but can you just play nice with the other bloggers when they raise a breeding issue.you do not need to shoot down all of their opinions.so if no one knows the size of the princes heart.why are you so quick with the trigger to trash the notion.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Pedigree Ann — Fri, 08 Mar 2013 17:28:40 GMT

Gin-

They ALL go back to Princequillo (or at least, most of them do) and nobody knows how big his heart was because nobody measured it. Haun's thesis wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Gin — Fri, 08 Mar 2013 02:37:22 GMT

Thanks for the great article Steve. A pure pleasure to read.

Sad, some people seem in a quandry over the article. I sure wasn't!

Vyjack is learning, and proving he is a race horse. Bummer they simply had to cut him, before he ended up hurting someone.

Lunar Spook, I was thinking the same thing about Secretariat's heart weighing 22 lbs., while I read the article. I wonder how much Vyjack's weighs. He simply may have a big motor too, like Secretariat and Phar Lap. He does go back to Princequillo, who had a big heart.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

lunar spook — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:33:12 GMT

Tom mallios - you make a very interesting point , i have studied pictures of secretariat an noticed his neck was huge ! i dont know if this meant he had a large airwave or not as im no vet , but something fueled him for sure , that 22 lb heart didnt hurt either !

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Bill Two — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:33:32 GMT

Serendipity is the word for this fortunate happenstance. Good luck and mey we all suffer such good fortune.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

tom mallios — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:43:20 GMT

not only for vyjack,but for every other racehorse i tell you the following.i was in the buisiness for a short time for a very,very high profiled racing out fit.the vet we used(will go unnamed) taught me one thing when buying and rating horses.they can have all the breeding in the world,they can have the greatest confirmation known to man.but using his words.unless they have the throat,pass on the sale.the air waves of the horse is so important,yet i have never heard or read to many people write about it.they are so stuck up on crosses and other variables.it is like you are talking about an area in midtown manhattan.there avenues cross with streets.as far as vyjack goes,sprinters are short and sloped.i am sure you have not seen him in person close up. i am 6 ft 6. vyjack is one of the few horses i can not see over.he is that tall.his hind legs are muscular and powerful.i respect all of the breeding tidbits. but to compare it to something else.you are playing fantasy sports.look at the physical evidence first.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

ksweatman9 — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:18:00 GMT

I don't believe the Derby is comparable to any other prestigious race in this country. 20 horses going full throttle means speed is only part of the equation, luck being the other. The pony shooting from the right hole to get a good trip has a leg up on any talented horse with speed who isn't so lucky on the first Saturday in May. That's why the "best" horse doesn't always end up in the winner's circle. That being said, regardless who the horse is, the derby winner deserves respect, they earned it. I don't subscribe to the fluke theory. There is a difference between luck and a fluke.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Derby Lover — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 21:06:51 GMT

ky vet,

So what, if the Beyer numbers were low. You know as well as everyone else on this blog that those numbers don’t mean squat. Baltimore wasn't supposed to win the Super bowl, but they did. All the numbers pointed towards the 49ers. Stuff happens. I have been reading Steve’s stories for the last year and I always see your negative comments. It is so bad that all you had to say was “People actually think the gotham was anything? 93 beyer? wow!” Then all hell broke loose with the responses. What I'm saying is when someone makes a comment to go along with Steve's just let it go and no one will jump on your back for it. If you have something important to add then add it. Why do you always have to write negative stuff? Why don’t you write your own articles for Blood Horse and let us critique them.

In the end, we all know horses don't always run to their numbers anyway. They wake up on the wrong side of the stall and run poorly and we all say “what happened?”, and all the numbers just went out the window!

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

KY VET — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 18:36:24 GMT

I would love to own a 3 yr old that runs a 93 beyer........We are talking the derby.....People seem to always say, "nobody knows" or "anything can happen"........People seem to think you dont have to be fast to win the derby.........ITS THE DERBY!.................its hard to improve 8 lengths...........mine that bird did.......hard to count on....

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Pedigree Ann — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:09:08 GMT

I specifically mentioned the female side of Vyjack because the female side can overpower or at least stiffen the male miler side. But Stravinsky over Apalachee..., sprint/miler sires both. Yes, they each had the odd distance winner, but each was a case of the mare being the dominant partner in the mating.

Most of the time, you get what you breed for. That's why such a large fraction of Derby winners have what are considered less than gilt-edged pedigrees, on one side or both.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

tom mallios — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 14:53:00 GMT

ky vet

in my response to your comments,i never once said you did not care about horses.if anyone else did ,you know what they can do with themselves.you are passionate and have what every other person on this earth has. AN OPINION.i am passionate and biased about vyjack.my close friend owns him.that is not the entire reason.people keep questioning the wrong things about him.the beyers or the distance limitations.what has he done wrong in his 4 races so far?nothing,so if and when he fails.people will have ample time to trash him.we are not knocking the competition,it is not fair to their connections.we are just enjoying the ride.personally i use sheets not beyer figures.the number he ran in the gotham is good enough to have been in the picture in last years derby. we all know everything is subjective and not a science.so let us agree to dis agree.but,never take it on a personal attack of your charecter.whoever attacks someone without knowing them,is not worth acknowledging

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Love 'em all — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 14:38:17 GMT

fbwinners -

Here's the link to Steve's Mucho Macho Man (story of survival) that you mentioned. I, too, love that story! [laughing]

cs.bloodhorse.com/.../ky-derby-trail-macho-man-was-born-to-run.aspx

Love his John Henry stories, too! Steve's the best.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

CHIEF PICAWINNA — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:55:14 GMT

KY Vet Beyer is in the BUSINESS of making the figures,he and his staff wont shed any tears if their figure on a race that you base all you KD bets was way off.I remeber Beyer telling me on a blog that Pioneer of the Nile wouldnt be anywhere near the front after the Derby and I told him he could win and I continued back and forth with him until the close of the chat.He had an issue with AW tracks and the horses prepping on them.His BUSINESS was behind and didnt have any history on the California AW tracks.He had an issue with the AW tracks and since he is human that issue clouded his reasoning concerning the same.Well guess what the colt that beat Pioneer of The Nile did the majority of prepping on the Allweather track in Canada at Woodbine.Always go with what YOU believe never be easily misled by anyone, nobody and I mean nobody knows what will happen,including the well regarded Beyer himself.BTW after my exchange with Beyer I bet $500 on the Derby using Pioneer of The Nile and nearly doubled my money,and I made a large profit in Derby futures.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Steve Haskin — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:56:34 GMT

I appreciate all the kind words, thank you. Some of your comments were very special to me.

There is nothing I enjoy more than discovering and sharing these back stories, whether it's the current horses or the horses of the past.

Kenny, I was at Fair Grounds for opening day. We were down there for Thanksgiving, and we had a wonderful time. I hadnt been there since the fire, so everything was new. They put on a great show.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

fbwinners — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 06:10:47 GMT

Steve,

I absolute love your work you provide us year in and year out. I rarely post in forums or blogs because of the immature content that shows up. But this type of article is what's missing from this game for others to have more of an interest than wagering. I love to wager and do very well at it. But I love more aspects of this passion now than Beyers figure and so on. I think you ought too publish the article on Mucho Macho Man you wrote about him 2 years back on his birth and survival. Every time I see that colt run I replay that article in my mind. I was at the FG for his races and that article gave me a connection to him!!! I would love to meet you one day if you ever attend the Fairgrounds for the La. Derby. Keep up the great work I look forward to each and everyday I get up!!!!

Regards, Kenny Schmitt

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Lexington Bloodstock — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 06:00:57 GMT

We need more stories like this. WHY OH WHY do we not get them in the racing press?????????

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

sysonby — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 04:05:05 GMT

Red Smith once said to Joe Palmer how he wished Joe would write something average every now and then....I believe you are just as incapable as Mr. Palmer at ever writing anything average...We are all very fortunate for your gift

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

Greg R — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 03:33:22 GMT

Talk about eye-opening. Vyjack's Gotham showed one of the most abrupt and successful changes in a horse's style that I 've ever seen. Maybe some knew, but I hadn't heard that the trainer had been working on changing V's running style. At first, I thought it had something to do with the traffic crunch that happened at the start and that it had been a lucky break for V that he was forced into a different type of trip and then learned he could win from behind horses. Evidently, though, this was the plan. Congratulations on a great teaching job. Proves it can be done, even with a strong-willed horse. Trainers are often afraid to try, because they are always brow-beaten with lines such as, "Don't take away a horse's best weapon (speed)." Sometimes the cliche is true, but sometimes it is just a excuse for never bothering to give a horse another way to win.

I agree that his race looked stronger than the Beyer.

re: Haskin's Derby Trail: The Unlikely Story of Vyjack

KY VET — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:40:53 GMT

Funny.....i'm the rude one.........yet people think so highly about themselves,as to post a comment that i dont care about horses............i own 2 horses....my older horse injured himself, it prob. would be cheaper to get rid of him, but i told trainer i'll bring him back, pay the bills over the winter....he has more wins at this track, than any current horse, with a chance at the record.........he is back, training well.....................forgive me if i dont cry at the stories written by the judge.........the judge cares more about horses than anything........................lets just all hug each other, not disagree when people say things that are not true.............everything is a rainbow.......