Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Coldfacts — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 11:58:03 GMT

DUPLICATOR,

Who is goldencents?

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

DUPLICATOR — Tue, 16 Apr 2013 23:14:25 GMT

Gentleman... Lets sprinkle a little math and logic on top of your Rubik's cube problem. 1... That's how many times I've seen Johnny V go to the whip. Now here comes my logic...This horse has only stepped up in class. All the horses that have come close to losing to him are regarded as great. Does anyone watch replays? His cruising speed is superior to any other I've seen on the trail. It will take a terrible break out of the gate and a wall 8 wide in home stretch to stop this monster from winning those roses.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

JMLCAGEY — Tue, 16 Apr 2013 18:18:04 GMT

I havent read many comments but will go back & do so. I have a Derby horse I really like, MYLUTE. How can you/anyone love REVOLUTIONARY and not like this horse alot? Just had excellent w/out, will be 2nd time w/ blinkers off, will be multi x the price of horse he lost to by a neck and had as tough a trip or worse. Enough races and well travelled, so a good bottom. This might be a major play for me. Prep underneath horse somewhat ignored like a # of them who have gone on and won. I dont like VERRAZANO at all, fin. too slow in Wood. nothing impressive for low odds horse. Thks.....

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Little Bill — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 21:04:47 GMT

I first heard the tune as the opening song to the awesome "Let it Ride" flick.

I'll set up with a laptop at the local pub on big race days and have a tab open to it. Play a piece of it before races. My friends have it down loaded as my ringtone. They love hearing it on Saturdays as they know it's game on.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

MyBigRed — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:45:37 GMT

I'm still sticking with Verrazano, with Orb as my second favorite to win the Derby.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Coldfacts — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 15:04:53 GMT

Tiara Terces

You are funny!

"Gemologist may have looked good standing but when running he was quite paddle footed."

I made a similar observation regarding Gemologist. I predicted he would have a very short racing career and had no chance of winning the Derby with that type of galloping action.

My description was not paddle foot but instead a flopping foot. I am not sure the adjective selected was appropriate.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Coldfacts — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:55:51 GMT

CHIEF PICAWINNA,

I do not favor Mr. Eoin Hartys' program either.

As fans, we just have to live with the things we cannot change.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Pedigree Ann — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:53:27 GMT

Cassandra - 'The Fugue for Tinhorns' is the opening number of the Broadway show 'Guys and Dolls.' It is sung by Nicely-Nicely Johnson, Rusty Charlie, and Benny Southstreet. Nicely-Nicely is perusing the Morning Telegraph (a defunct racing paper) and begins -

"I got the horse right here,

The name is Paul Revere,

And here's a that guy that says

that the weather's clear.

Can do, can do, this guy says the

horse can do."

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Coldfacts — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:48:00 GMT

Forbidden Apple,

And your point is?

Palace Malice and Normandy Invasion are maiden winners as well. Both have finished unplaced in graded races on surfaces on which they are proven.

One bad race does not a bad maiden winner make.

Itmylucjday was unplaced in the Delta Jackpot. He rebounded from that bad performance. To what did you attribute his poor performance?

Footbridge tried a new surface and did not fire. He is not the first horse with a dirt to synthetic effort that was poor. Will Rydilluc contest more synthetic races?

Daylan Thomas was shipped to NY to contest the Jockey Club Gold Cup and finished last beaten 20L.

Subsequently to his dismal dirt effort he won the Arc on his preferred surface.

You are not the contributor I expect to engage in this type of points scoring policy as you should be well aware that history will make you look silly.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Closer — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:09:39 GMT

Anyone want to try their odds making abilty?.I'll just estimate what I think the morning line odds will be on a few of the top contenders.--------Verrazano 5/2--Orb 7/2-- Goldencents 6/1---Revolutionary 6-1----Normandy Invasion 8-1--Vyjack 10-1--and Java Gold-10-1.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Sail On — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 04:05:30 GMT

Alex's big fan makes good points. I especially agree that winning goes a long way. Some horses have serious trouble passing and taking the lead.

The Bluegrass and Arkansas show no challengers there, so there are few horses in the Derby that can give Verrazano contest. Don't think we shall see him all out until Belmont.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Bobert — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:47:57 GMT

If Verrazano suddenly decides to run his race he may be in the mix,But he needs to get faster before May 4th,Sunland is on dirt and in Govenor Charlie gets a good trip and a similar time for 1 1/8 miles again and a average last 1/8th that may be the winning time

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Forbidden Apple — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:43:24 GMT

Cold Opinions,

I think it's time we stopped hearing about your maiden winner named Footbridge. Or maybe you think Harty did his job well, keep up the hard work.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Fran Loszynski — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 15:45:53 GMT

Revolutionary reminds me of War Admiral. When you see him for the first time you just go Whoa! Awesome horses like this are killers for the finish line. Their stature keeps them from eyeing their competition because in their heart, there is none. Racehorses become aware of a female jockey I believe they protect them. Revolutionary needs Rosie because he is going to pay attention to the other 19 horses and she'll see to that

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Rusty Weisner — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 15:42:33 GMT

Cassandra.says,

I don't understand. I was just making the point that if he needs to circle the field after dropping back, that might be too much of a disadvantage to win the race. Sorry if I misinterpreted something.

I actually like the idea playing Revolutionary more after Java's War winning. These are the two who should be coming with a rush at the end and I think the possibility of long odds on Java's War are gone. I like Palace Malice. Great effort on an unfamiliar surface that favored a horse like Java's War.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Closer — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 15:30:36 GMT

There's not much speed in this Derby-----I don't see any horse going in 10 and change for the first six furlongs in Derby.Goldencents has speed but his connections would be foolish to send him on a suicide mission.I see the early fractions going in something like 23 and change,46 and change and 1:11 and change---Verrazano will be right on the pace this time and I don't see anybody running him down in the stretch---Pletcher will have him geared up bigtime on Derby Day and Revolutionary should take the place spot. It's Pletcher's Derby.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Cassandra.Says — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 07:38:36 GMT

CLOSER:

I HEAR YOU!

Revolutionary and Calvin Borel . . . if Revolutionary does hesitate at the break, they'll rewrite the textbook on broken field running!

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Cassandra.Says — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 07:13:55 GMT

When it's all assembled like this, it would almost appear that a lot of horses have been stiffs in their final prep.

"I leave a leetle juice in ze lemon." [Horatio Luro]

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Cassandra.Says — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 07:02:30 GMT

If anybody doesn't know from whence Fugue for Tinhorns took his name, google it.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Cassandra.Says — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 06:42:59 GMT

GREG:

Yes, I know them. But they don't do it for free and how many do they do? Nor are they public information after they've done them.

People I've known well doing stride analysis found no correlations between length and a few other parameters and racing success. They didn't publicize that fact and continued collecting fees from 2s-in-training buyers and others wanting to know.

"So-and-so closing with giant strides" says the announcer; we've all heard it often.

Have you ever thought, "Gee, didn't look that giant to me" and counted strides to the wire by so-and-so compared to another horse in the picture in your video?

It's just a cliche.

Thoroughbreds come in various sizes and shapes, and also ways of going. No one of these has a monopoly on speed and stamina.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Cassandra.Says — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 06:22:05 GMT

For shame, RUSTY!

A sleazy trick, leaving critical words out of a quote. Almost like leaving "not" out.

I did not "make your case for you" I acknowledged it as one possibility, playing fair. Try it.

First, you have not looked at the head-ons, I can tell. Anyone who does develops great respect for this horse. He was physically mauled in his first start, and his neighbor broke outward into his path and went to his knees there in his second start. In his third, he broke a little cautiously, rushed into contention and hung, but nothing hit him. In his fourth, he broke like an arrow, stalked from the outside, beat a stakes horse 8 1/2 lengths and just a maiden, in third, by 20 lengths, one second off an Aqueduct record on a drying out 'good' track.

So we have a horse with a history of bouncing back psychologically given one clean race. Maybe that was only once and now he's ruined, but I think it's likely that if he was going to wind up like a gun shy pup, the first and second races would be most likely to break his nerve. And he's never been off the board even when the victim of a wipeout.

I'm an old lady in a wheelchair now, and have been many things with horses, but first I look at them as a rider.

"I'd love to ride that horse."

"No, you wouldn't dear. Eat your gruel."

But like an old dog by the fire chasing rabbits in its dreams, I still ride in my sleep.

He's the one I'd love to ride. A very sound nervous system. He has none of the things one might dread inbreeding to Ribot through Hoist the Flag and all you might hope for.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

kincsem — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 04:15:23 GMT

He was not impressive. After a half in just under 50, NO ONE should have made up ground on a real great colt. And Normandy Invasion did just that. I will be surprised if Verrazano wins at Churchill. Orb should be the favorite.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Tiara Terces — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 02:14:26 GMT

Great observations. Although Verrazano's sire could only get fourth, apparently he has had some good distance horses in Australia. The dam sire is a good distance horse who gave Tiznow a great challenge on a strange surface and traveling the opposite way around. Union Rags was also an outstanding specimen but did not come through. Pletcher has had only one Derby winner and he was favored by a wet track and Mr. Borail as the jockey. Orb is by Malibu Moon, a son of Unbridled who was a full brother to Cahill Road. On paper Oxbow looks great but what happened in the Arkansas Derby? Which ones would be most likely to benefit by an off track if Derby Day is wet? So many questions. Who knows the answers? Gemologist may have looked good standing but when running he was quite paddle footed. The workout reports will give us some better insight but we'll have to wait for Derby Week for that.

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Pedigree Ann — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 20:03:03 GMT

"Coming back to 2013, when a big, long-striding horse is fully extended he is not nimble, and if he has to take up, it takes him a long time to reestablish momentum."

Cass, I always have contended that the reason that Sunday Silence always beat Easy Goer on one-mile tracks but couldn't beat him at Belmont was that EG was one of those big, long-striding types. On a mile oval, he had to shorten stride just a bit to keep his balance on the turns then try to get his stride going again. At Belmont, no problem, he could keep striding out on the wide turns.

(I was a big Sunday Silence fan. I like them medium in size and handy. And black. The Walter Farley influence.)

re: Haskin's Derby Report: Give Verrazano a Break

Little Bill — Sat, 13 Apr 2013 19:46:34 GMT

Coldfacts, well said. I don't see Mclaughlin as much a problem as the more money than God organization. Did Bin Suroor have better luck? They invest and want returns, now. I think as fans we would all be pleased if they all took more time.