Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Tamara Ault — Wed, 28 May 2014 21:38:06 GMT

Wow, that was almost like being there. I got to see Damascus in retirement and I still was in awe of this great horse. Is that "match race" that wasn't , on tape anywhere?

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Ta Wee — Thu, 10 Apr 2014 02:07:20 GMT

Great story and description of the'68 Suburban which truly was a clash of Titans. I recall running in high school gym class in'67 and my buddies and I while racing each other would holler out their favorite horses-Kelso, Buckpasser, Damascus, and I was always Dr. Fager and of course in front. Many yrs. later while teaching middle school Phys. Ed. and coaching boys track I would tell stories of the old aforementioned greats and kind of insist they watch the triple crown races. When they properly pronounced Fusaichi Pegasus I gave them a big hand.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Doctor — Wed, 10 Jul 2013 17:45:30 GMT

Saratoga AJ -

I definitely agree with The Deacon's last post regarding Dr. Fager, maybe not Damascus. Buckpasser truly was one of the all time greats. But, if you remember he had to use "rabbits" in several of his races, he also had the habit of severely pulling himself up when he got the lead, i.e.; 1966 Flamingo which he still won. At the end of the day, he doesn't beat Dr. Fager straight up in any race and certainly not a match race. The "Doc" was simply to FAST!!!

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Deacon — Wed, 10 Jul 2013 01:19:23 GMT

Saratoga AJ: I respectfully totally disagree with your last post. Buckpasser was truly a great horse, but not as good as the Doc and Damascus. This is just my opinion.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Saratoga AJ — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 10:41:11 GMT

Buckpasser was a sore legged horse in that final race of his career in the 1967 Woodward. When healthy he was superior to Fager and Damascus. He probably would have won the Triple Crown in 1966 if not for getting hurt just before the Derby while in the midst of his 15 race winning streak (and winner of 24 of 26 races from May 1965 to May 1967). He was not the same horse his final 4 starts in 1967 before being retired.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Zen's Auntie — Sun, 07 Jul 2013 19:02:27 GMT

This readers interest is NOT at a Low. Great Piece as always. Enjoy your well deserved vacation and keep bringing the stories of these True Iron Horses to us as only you can Steve!

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Davids — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 21:31:47 GMT

Tobin Bronze brings back fond memories for me as well. The family had recently visited Australia and we saw Tobin Bronze win the Cox Plate and Caulfield Cup (2 very prestigious races in Australia). The Australian fans idolised him.

My mother brought back a lady's magazine called "Women's Weekly" as a memento - the centre spread had pages on Tobin Bronze.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

ML/NJ — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:19:39 GMT

Demise of Handicap Triple (et al.) ... Thank you Breeders' Cup.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Deacon — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 05:50:05 GMT

The Doctor: That quote you mentioned gave me goose bumps. I forgot Tobin Bronze was in that race. Fort Marcy came out west here and beat the best we had to offer. In the 1968 Californian a sprinter named Kissin George was in there to be the rabbit. He was an awfully good sprinter and he set some decent fractions. The "Doc" just bid his time and went around him like he was standing still. Gamely champion mare was also in that race as was Dr. Roy E, Barb's Delight, and Rising Market. The time was 140.4 for 1 1/16 and he carried 130 lbs. Get this, Swaps, Kelso, Round Table and Prove It all lost the Californian while carrying 130 lbs. That weight was the lightest he would carry all year....

Having a good weekend, hope you're doing the same.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Doctor — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:19:48 GMT

The Deacon -

Regarding your post where you mention Advocator and Fort Marcy in the UN Handicap of '68, which many consider to be the Doc's best performance. Also in that race was the Australian champion Tobin Bronze who definitely was an outstanding turf horse. The famous quote after the race came from his owner, who said, " I didn't believe there was any horse in the world who could give Tobin Bronze 16 lbs. and beat him"!!! Well he met one that day in New Jersey!!!

I hope your weekend is going well...

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Davids — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:11:36 GMT

Another sign of greatness is singularity of the feat achieved... Seattle Slew is the only undefeated Triple Crown Winner. Unique, and the panicle of achievement in US racing.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Deacon — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 21:56:45 GMT

The Doctor: I have been around this game a long time. My dad used to hang around the "backstretch" folks, the people who really know horses. We had a minor friendship with Robert Wheeler. Wheeler trained Silver Spoon, Quilche and other greats.

Most of the conscious was that "The Bid, Dr. Fager and Swaps along with Man O War were the greatest horses they ever saw run. Having seen 3 out of those 4 race, I totally concur.

I suppose comparing Swaps to the likes of a Secretariat or Seattle Slew is like comparing Babe Ruth to Hank Aaron.

In my heart I know what greatness is. It takes your breath away. The awe of being there. Seldom in our lifetimes are we blessed with having that feeling.

Have a great holiday weekend....

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Doctor — Thu, 04 Jul 2013 14:19:16 GMT

The Deacon - Very impressed that you mention "Bid" in your last post, you and I are definitely on the same page regarding these fabulous animals. Another tidbit, I actually had a great conversation with Mr. and Mrs. Nerud a few years ago at Sperry's Restaurant in Saratoga, and obviously the conversation revolved around "The Doc" and all of his accomplishments. I do have to share a quote that John made that evening. He stated that "the best horse of all time evaluating their full careers was Spectacular Bid"!! So hats off to you Deacon for reminding me of the terrific conversation that I had with the Nerud's years ago.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Bigtex — Wed, 03 Jul 2013 13:45:02 GMT

Steve,

Horse racing is a passion I didn't know I had until around 2003 & it was because I read the book, Seabiscuit, by Laura Hillenbrand. I've been reading & watching ever since. Your writing has kept my flame roaring for the sport & never better than when you give historical accounts such as this. I love getting caught up in a race through your eyes! Thank you!

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Deacon — Tue, 02 Jul 2013 20:53:01 GMT

The Doctor:

I have read your post and I concur 100% as well. I saw the race, it was the greatest travesty in horse racing with regards to a disqualification. That and the Travers Stakes disqualification of Affirmed.

I would like also to say I agree with your assessment of Dr. Fager being the greatest who ever raced.

My word, look at the weight that poor animal carried, up to 139 lbs. He was the best in my opinion.

Maybe Secretariat was the best at 12 furlongs, I won't argue that and Spectacular Bid would give the "Doc" a run for his money at 10 furlongs but other then that no other horse would be close.

Go watch his race on YouTube when he beat grass horse of the year Fort Marcy and Advocator. First and only time the Doc ever ran on grass.

I believe that because he never ran in the triple crown races he doesn't get the accolades he deserves. America is in love with the Triple Crown, most folks have no clue on what a great horse truly is. These horses today pale in the shadow of our stars from the 1960's and 1970's........

Just my opinion.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Doctor — Tue, 02 Jul 2013 00:48:20 GMT

The Deacon - You're 100% right with you're Jersey Derby opinion. Go to Florida Derby Flashback: Ycaza, bloodhorse.com and read my post regarding the truth of the 67' Jersey Derby!!

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Doctor — Tue, 02 Jul 2013 00:30:33 GMT

MZ - You're probably are aware or maybe not that Cool Reception broke down in that Belmont, finished the race from the 16th pole in on three legs with Damascus going by at the finish.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Doctor — Tue, 02 Jul 2013 00:16:31 GMT

As a caviate to my first response... Equal weights...No rabbits. Done and done.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

The Doctor — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 23:23:46 GMT

Steve - As you know in my humble opinion you're at the pinnacle of National turf writers and correspondents. So after reading your current blog it's hard to believe that you gave me the opportunity to correct The Master. As you know Braulio Baeza did NOT ride Dr. Fager in the 1967 Woodward as he was under contract to Ogden Phipps. I'm sure just a simple oversight. But this is the perfect segue to an opinion that I have held firm since that fateful day. John Nerud made a mistake by believing that any rider could ride Dr. Fager, which really wasn't true. Shoemaker simply didn't have the physical strength to rate him as was acknowledged by Nerud himself. Bill Boland who DID ride Dr. Fager in the Woodward, was not in the top echelon of the riders in the 60's. My feeling is that he should have gone back to Manny Ycaza, but certainly after the Jersey Derby debacle it was never going to happen. Manny was one of the premier riders at the time and certainly had the strength to possibly rate the Good Doctor off the not one but two rabbits that were entered specifically to kill him off!!!! Although it would have been very difficult breaking between the two rabbits with Ussery and Turcotte screaming and yelling like banshees, Manny definitely would have been John's best choice for that particular day. As I've stated in a previous response, I believe that there isn't a horse that ever lived that could beat Dr. Fager from six to ten furlongs at EQUAL weights. Please enjoy a well deserved vacation and I hope to see you at Saratoga later this summer!

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Alex'sBigFan — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 22:41:42 GMT

I don't like the use of rabbits in any race, human or equine. Just run the damn race. I hate it in human marathons when the rabbit drops out all of a sudden after his "job" is done. It's sneaky or something like he is an imposter that does not belong in the race at all. If you run it then finish it. Don't like interjecting equine rabbits either in a race. Just run the damn race and may the best trained athlete win. Darn pesky wabbits!!!!!!!

Steve, you could write about stall mucking, or taking the equine's temperatures daily or a farrier shoeing and we would all be enthralled as we all have a hunger for knowledge for all things thoroughbred and equine.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Old Old Cat — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 14:46:24 GMT

Steve, God bless you and enjoy your well earned vacation. We all love you. Your'e the greatest.

This article was RIVITING. It was like that great novel you just can't put down. I thought I was there. Your descriptions are so eloquent and descriptive. Your asides add a little perkiness to the narratives. I agree with your other fans, you are the best thing on BloodHorse, or in the whole racing industry.

Thanks again.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Will W — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 13:55:46 GMT

Steve is at his best when he writes about the great iron horses of the past. The inspiration comes through because of the quality of the horses he writes about, their rivalries, and, I imagine, what he knows is an unrequited longing to see racing return to what it should and can be before drugs, brittle horses, long layoffs, and the "business" of breeding horses with unblemished records secured by ducking rivals and picking spots captured the racing world. I lived through that era of Dr.Fager, Damascus, and Buckpasser and watched avidly these clashes of the titans albeit by television. Only got to see Damascus race in person and that was when he was far from his best in the drizzle and fog of the 1967 Kentucky Derby where he ran third to a field horse Proud Clarion and Barb's Delight who clearly did not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with that great handicap horse. The only downside of Steve's story was the apparent callous disregard of the owners of Damascus for the horse's well being in insisting he finish his career running with tendon problems in the Jockey Gold Cup. I'm assuming the owners knew the full extent of the colt's injury and Whiteley had kept them fully informed. Maybe Steve can clarify that point. Of course, in that era the money was on the track and not in the breeding stall. The horses were not the brittle animals we see today and certainly with their superior soundness, stamina, endurance, and versatility were not coddled as they are now. A horse could be a sprinter, a router, a grass performer, and a dirt star. When will we ever see that again ! Still, agreeing with Steve, seeing the spectacle of a never out of the money, iron horse like Damascus vanned off after a humiliating 37 length defeat in a race in which he should have been eased - let alone run - was one of the saddest sights ever inflicted on the racing public.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Will W — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 13:49:50 GMT

Steve is at his best when he writes about the great iron horses of the past. The inspiration comes through because of the quality of the horses he writes about, their rivalries, and, I imagine, what he knows is an unrequited longing to see racing return to what it should and can be before drugs, brittle horses, long layoffs, and the "business" of breeding horses with unblemished records secured by ducking rivals and picking spots captured the racing world. I lived through that era of Dr.Fager, Damascus, and Buckpasser and watched avidly these clashes of the titans albeit by television. Only got to see Damascus race in person and that was when he was far from his best in the drizzle and fog of the 1967 Kentucky Derby where he ran third to a field horse Proud Clarion and Barb's Delight who did not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with that great handicap horse. The only downside of the story was the callous disregard of the owners of Damascus for the horse's well being in insisting he finish his career running with tendon problems in the Jockey Gold Cup. I'm assuming they knew the full extent of the colt's injury and Whiteley had kept them fully informed. Maybe Steve can clarify that point. Of course, the money was on the track then and not in the breeding stall. The horses were not the brittle animals we see today and certainly with their superior soundness, stamina, endurance, and versatility were not coddled as they are now. A horse could be a sprinter, a router, a grass performer, and a dirt star. When will we ever see that again. Still, agreeing with Steve, seeing the spectacle of a never out of the money, iron horse like Damascus vanned off after a humiliating 37 length defeat in a race in which he should have been eased - let alone run - was one of the saddest sights ever inflicted on the racing public.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Davids — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 05:01:24 GMT

Pedigree Ann, you are right :) I used the term ''rabbit" for a more domestic vernacular with regards to European racing. I have been following European racing since the halcyon days of Brigadier Gerard, Mill Reef, Roberto et al. The Brigadier was my English idol of the time.

As you wrote, the pace is set for the 'champion' to take over say about 1 - 2 furlongs out and then run away with the race. Not all the great European champs had pace setters and those are the ones I really respect.

These days, it's an annunual Europen claim that 'their next best thing' is the latest Sea Bird,Ribot, etc. After watching horses run for over 40 years you tend to be a bit sceptical of such claims. Mind you, it keeps the punters interested and that's what we need here.

re: Haskin Series Part 3: Clash of the Titans

Paula Higgins — Mon, 01 Jul 2013 02:29:01 GMT

Well, I am late to the party as usual. Great read Steve. Dr. Fager is one of my favorites. Really enjoyed this one. Have a wonderful vacation Steve and we are looking forward to your return.