Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Kat — Tue, 19 May 2009 03:51:17 GMT

Really great story on the Preakness. When you talk about Rachel's and The Bird's final 3/16th, you call it 1/16th. They were going 3 times as fast!! No need to post this. Again, great story!

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Coldfacts — Fri, 15 May 2009 04:27:19 GMT

Sir Barton lost all six of his starts as a 2YO. This unheralded maiden made his 3YO debut in the derby as a rabbit for his more fancied stable companion. He made all to win and went on to Triple Crown glory.

This geldings first three sires were all classic winners. His dam was sire by Smart Strike of Curlin/English Channel fame. He has the pedigree and he just destroyed the derby field which suggest he has ability. He was the second youngest and possibly the smallest horse in the derby. In spite of his size and maturity disadvantage, he whipped his older and bigger rivals.

One hit wonder! No. Brilliant! Yes

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Coldfacts — Fri, 15 May 2009 04:26:06 GMT

It appears most trainers are of the opinion that Mine That Bird’s Derby victory was a fluke. They seem to be more fearful of Oaks champion Rachel Alexandra than THE Derby champion going into the Preakness.

I am amazed that the fear lies with RA and not the pint sized gelding MTB who was more impressive in the Derby than RA in the Oaks. I know the immediate question will be, what has Coldfacts been smoking? Well in anticipation of the question I have prepared a response so let’s look at the cold facts.

RA ran against a handful of over matched fillies. She tracked a mile pace and effortlessly pulled away for a 20 ¼ lengths victory. MTB came from 15 to 17 lengths last against the top 3YO colts that made the derby field. His breathtaking stretch run gave the impression that his rivals were glued to the sloppy/muddy Churchill Downs surface. Folks it is not an easy task to close from so far back on a sloppy/muddy track. Only the very good ones can finish that fast on such a surfaces i.e., Curlin, Midnight Lute etc. Mine That Bird had to negotiate serious traffic when he commenced winning move. The small opening he exploded through against the rails was even more remarkable than his 6 1/4 lengths victory. He overcame overwhelming odd and obstacles to record an emphatic victory against the best in his division. RA was expected to be an easy winner, he was dismissed with disdain.

He entered the Derby as the Canadian 2YO champion. In fact, he was the only Juvenile champion in the field as both US 2YO champions Midshipman and Stardom Bound did not make the derby field. There are those that will argue that being the Canadian champion carries no weight. For those who are of this opinion, they are sadly lacking in knowledge. Two previous Canadian 2YO champions have won the derby i.e., 1964 winner Northern Dancer and 1983 winner Sunny’s Halo.

For those who think he is not capable of winning the Preakness, I would encourage them to revisit the story of the Venezuela champion Canonero II. He was dismissed in the 1971 Derby and won coming from last but one. He was not expected to figure in the Preakness on Pimlico’s speed favoring track. Well, he prompted the pace and set a NTR of 1:54 for his victory.

Remember he is a gelding and will have no interest in staying behind the spectacular filly

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Mike S — Tue, 12 May 2009 04:51:26 GMT

The people who say that MINE THAT BIRD is a "one hit wonder" are in good company. Andy Beyer cried that "he should have been 200-1" and Mike Watchmaker said, "He was the champion 2 year old in Canada...big deal."

I do think it was a big deal that MINE THAT BIRD won three stakes races as a 2 year old in Canada and was voted their champion. That's a very good accomplishment. When you toss out his one bad race - the one over Pro-Ride at Santa Anita - his record was not bad at all. In fact, his record was pretty good. I didn't think he would even make the top 4, but I didn't think he was such a bad horse. I thought he was OK. He definitely should not have been 200-1, all his races were good, except for one. He's not a one-hit wonder, he has won FOUR stakes races.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Karen in Texas — Mon, 11 May 2009 03:25:22 GMT

BlueHen---I think that Tom Durkin called the race on NBC only. Somebody mentioned this on one of the blogs the other day. The track had its regular race caller doing the call at Churchill.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

BlueHen — Mon, 11 May 2009 00:12:36 GMT

I have a sort of "apropos nothing" Derby question. Why, after the talk about Churchill Downs hiring the English race-caller Mark (whose last name escapes me at the moment), did Tom Durkin call the Derby? Not that I mind Tom Durkin, trust me -- as a Saratoga regular, I enjoy his work (who could forget last summer and "Arrrrrrr"?) -- but I was just curious. I notice Durkin did not call the Oaks.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Hawkeye — Sun, 10 May 2009 16:46:06 GMT

There were racetrackers and maybe fans that seemed to be "angry" that Mine That Bird ran such an outstanding race. That is sad. After all that is racing and the unexpected can be very thrilling. Then too we pay too much attention to the east coast and west coast horses and forget about those under the radar. Well, wasn't MTB an east coaster although a Canadian one?

I have to mention some nonsense surrounding the Preakness and ask for your opinion. All of a sudden some owners and trainers are trying to block Rachel Alexandra from being able to race in the Preakness by inducing other owners of triple crown nominated horses to enter their charges. That to me borders on race fixing. Are owners so afraid of her? Several have mentioned that the triple crown races are to showcase the stallion prospects. Well, MTB is a gelding but Rachel Alexandra has a sire also. What is your take on all of this ridiculousness? This is going to sour a lot of people on these big races.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

margies — Sun, 10 May 2009 00:59:19 GMT

good article this is just what the racing sport needed before this derby this yr i wasnnot as interested but when my man calvin who i always bet on and the little horse that would and could won i am so excited and everyone is thanks calvin and mine that bird

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Ranagulzion — Sat, 09 May 2009 06:21:29 GMT

ZARVONA: Even if you are correct that MTB was the only horse in the Derby that relished the underfoot conditions, face the fact that his performance in terms of speed and time, 2:02 and change for the 10 furlongs is one of the fastest ever under those conditions. Also, given the horse's pedigree (Unbridled on top Mr Prospector within 1st 3 generations and Northern Dancer 4x4) and solid 2YO foundation, it is more likely that his performance in the Derby was a Break-out, to be followed by similar quality performances, rather than a fluke or flash-in-the-pan. Watch and see. The Preakness is shaping up to be a "thrilla in manila", if "Rachel" makes the field and it will take, not a very good horse but a BRILLIANT horse to lower her colours. Thusly (as you would say) Mine That Bird and Big Drama(our mutual fancy) will be truly tested. A mouth-watering prospect, I might add.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

zarvona — Sat, 09 May 2009 01:14:37 GMT

Looks to me like one horse took to the off track, "Mine that Bird, and the rest not really! Again, I will be surprised if "Mine that Bird" hits the board in the Preakness.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

russell maiers — Fri, 08 May 2009 21:05:35 GMT

Thanks Steve for all the fine input to the Derby! Mine that Bird looked like Megahertz running the turf in California with a little Whirlaway mixed in. I did have his half brother to finish first, Summer Bird. Also Chocolate Candy and IWR. The two took 5th and 6th and Mike Smith thought he had the race rounding the turn but CC flattened out. I had to jump on Bird Stones sons when they got in late because Bird Stone was such a tough, tiny,and good horse and when I saw these colts were little also, I guessed they would inherit his toughness and heart too. I went with Summer Bird because he was finishing really, really good in the Arkansas Derby. Took that over the two year old Canadian champion. Oh well, I was close, but wrong. Summer Bird still ran respectable and will be heard from again. I believe MTB totally skipped and danced across that goo ball track and like you said Baltimore will tell us more. Calvin said one thing after the race that more trainers and jockeys should learn. He said "these are three year olds and they can only run so fast for so long, my horse was the only horse running the later stages of the race" I know speed can be great, and one can get brave on the front end, etc. etc. etc. Dirt tracks in the USA focus 99% on speed but if you think about it the pedestrian 12 second eigths equal a two minute mile and a quarter which would win most Derby's and shave a second and we are talking Secritariat. I still will never forget the shot with Smarty Jones in front of Edington and Rock Hard Ten. He looked half their size! Then the tiny Bird Stone running by Smarty Jones and he looked half his size! Good luck to Mine that Bird. So hard but I will even cheer for him to beat the fantastic RA.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

donnyess — Fri, 08 May 2009 18:20:22 GMT

"Mine That Bird turned speed figures into a pile of useless numbers"

Not the ones I used. What part of MTB's last 2 preps on dirt don't you understand? How many of the entrants could run a mile under 1:37 and still run up close at all 4 calls? The answer is Dunkirk, Papa Clem, Mine That Bird. How many had the foundation? Which one ran poorly in the slop 2 back? I'll do my own handicapping thank you very much. EOD...LOL

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

EasyGoerFan — Fri, 08 May 2009 17:15:48 GMT

Calvin Borel won an early 90's running of the Arkansas Derby on Rockamundo at odds of 108-1. I was at Oaklawn Park that day and a young woman sitting next to me had the exacta, which paid over $8,000 as I recall. Calvin was given credit for that unlikely win too, but not for a rail skimming ride. He sensed that Rockamundo was holding his breath so Calvin gave him a whack on the belly and that made Rockamundo start breathing again. Calvin said proper breathing was the reason the horse ran so well. I'd never heard of such a thing. Calvin never ceases to amaze me.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Karen in Texas — Fri, 08 May 2009 16:52:13 GMT

da3hoss and Wanda---It is difficult on these blogs to tell who understands that the altitude concept is a naturally occurring physiologic response and who thinks it's something out of science fiction. As I said on the other blog, I believe it's important enough to try to explain.

Funny about B. Baffert--he has Mayor Marv running at Lone Star Park this weekend, and Marv's last start was at Sunland. Baffert told our newspaper writer that he should have entered him in the Kentucky Derby so that Marv could have stopped and backed up in front of Mine That Bird the way he stopped in front of Mythical Power at Sunland!

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Marc W — Fri, 08 May 2009 15:44:54 GMT

geronimo2123

I had mentioned in a previous post about Gomez herding PC and MM costing MM 2nd. What Gomez did was race riding--in the Derby you get away with things unless you do a Bet Twice. It goes back a ways, but if you ever saw Cordero on Codex in the Preakness come out on Genuine Risk and not come down -race riding-when you bet on them or ride them you want the rider to do it--when you are on the receiving end?

Air/smare -Mine That Bird just ran his eye bolls out, got a great ride, and won. I claim no credit in liking him, being involved with Canadian Racing most of my life the truth is it wasn't a great crop last year so lets not make the 2yr old of the year thing a revelation. If Square Eddy being a Canadian Bred goes to Canada for the Queens Plate I think he will air(win easily). They are not world beaters this year at 3 or last when they were 2.

We got a shocker-those who say they loved MTB are not big bettors nor handicappers but I still congratulate those who did. Hope it wasn't a fluke. Even if it wasn't--- what happens if Rachel runs in the Preakness--if she can rate off the speed like in the Oaks without getting discouraged it seems to me all bets are off for all the colts.

I hear Kelly Leak may not make the Texas race--pity--he was going to be one of the biggest money makers this year because of smart management. Run your horse where they belong--in the long run there are not that many Mine That Birds.

One last point Giacomo?

Very nice horse--not a superstar but a very nice horse--throughout his career---AND--I wouldn't be shocked if he makes a good sire--A non-suspicious trainer (Lets put that in this terms, I wouldn't have bred to St. Liam before his untimely death)-his brother can run--Holy Bull was a great horse if not a sire. Don't be surprised if he does quite well in the breeding shed.

The last horse I owned and lost in a $15K claimer--I paid $8K won 41K in purses---great horse-absolutely not--he tried hard--he more than paid his bills-lost him for almost double what I paid-a nice horse. To own Giacomo would be a dream for me and the other 90% who are involved in horse ownership--I was happy with my results of the claimer.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

horse man — Fri, 08 May 2009 14:33:36 GMT

The article mentions the Niagara Equissage and I am seeing more of these used on horses all the time and hearing good things about how it helps horses. I am going to find out more about it.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Wanda — Fri, 08 May 2009 14:07:57 GMT

Karen in Texas: You make some very interesting comments. Of course MTB was a nice 2yr old. He is a graded stakes winner in Canada. Woodbine is one of the top 5 tracks in NA. Their purses are in the top 3 if I'm not mistaken. Why would people think this track is anything less than world class? BC 2008 saw 2 Woodbine based horses run second in the Sprint and F&M Turf.

Keep us updated on the equine program at Colorado State University. I really enjoy your comments. Thanks!

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

da3hoss — Fri, 08 May 2009 12:22:20 GMT

Karen in Texas, it's not me saying he did or didn't benefit, etc, other people are conjecturing he may have, I'm just saying what statistics say, if anything, about altitude, training, benefitting and was being satirical about BB's horse...

PS I like MTB, in fact BEFORE the KD you can find my posts in several blogs about not ruling out little brown horses that motor on while the "better horses" battle it out...but then, I bet his daddy as the only horse to maybe outlast Smarty...;-)

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Karen in Texas — Thu, 07 May 2009 21:11:53 GMT

da3hoss---Having any effect from increased RBC/Hgb. levels cannot make a horse or athlete better than he or she already is. That athlete's efforts can only be maximized. If you are standing next to someone at sea level or on a mountain top and you have normal to high normal levels of red cells, and the other person is, say, anemic, then you are probably feeling better and performing better than they are. That's all this altitude thing is. I, personally, do not think MTB had a "big move up" at all; a few extra circulating blood cells could not and would not give him more talent or ability. It would help him to be all that he could be, in other words, to maximize his individual potential. Another horse going from Sunland Park to another location might not do well simply because he was not as good in the first place.

Dr. Wayne McIlwraith,BVSc,PhD, of Colorado State University is on the Board of Directors of Altitude Simulation Technologies equine program. Their stated purpose is to "harness genetic potential". It will be interesting to see how this concept proceeds. If you look at their web page, you can see that they have clients from the "bluegrass" area.

Mine That Bird is a fantastic little horse! He probably always was--just look at his past performances. I sincerely hope he wins the Triple Crown; and, no, it will not be because he came down from Sunland Park, but because he is simply the best.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

draynay — Thu, 07 May 2009 19:08:09 GMT

FF is a miler and has no business going a 1 1/8th or longer.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

da3hoss — Thu, 07 May 2009 16:39:03 GMT

MTB wasn't running in $2500 claiming races at Sunland, that Sunland race was (ungraded) $800,000 race!

MTB had earned app. $375,000 in his pre-derby career, all but his 2 maiden races in stakes.

RE: The Altitude discussion...3700 feet does not cause altitude sickness/benefits in adults, that starts at about 6,000-10,000 ft (so I understand)...now children are affected at lower altitudes...

Plus, at the Sunland Derby Day, Bob Baffert had a horse running in one of the races...we haven't heard of any big move up from that horse benefitting from more red cells!

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Gundaghia — Thu, 07 May 2009 16:05:25 GMT

GunBow-

It's nice to hear someone besides myself was such a fan of Gundaghia. He's my all-time fav, so much so that my lic plate is GUNDGIA!

I got to seem him several times at Del Mar and SA, never at Fairplex though, which he WAS the king of. :)

I just loved that he was a smallish gelding but tried hard every single time he ran. I talked to Baffert several years ago about him, and he shared with me how much he enjoyed him and how much fun they had with him.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

Monica V — Thu, 07 May 2009 15:13:54 GMT

I'm really glad MTB won. I'm glad that a small operation like that won the big one. It's really what people love to see, the little guy that makes it big. No one can deny that MTB's performance was astounding. I'm really looking forward to the Preakness and the Belmont. This has been a really interesting year so far. I knew that it would be an upset this year but I didn't expect that big an upset. This is what makes horse racing fun!

Jess Jackson has another super horse. Wonder how much he paid for RA. She is on a whole different level than any other horse. I hope that she faces the boys. I think she would trounce them all!

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

DONNA — Thu, 07 May 2009 13:35:29 GMT

For Big Red, thanks for the link on Friesan Fire. I hope he heals quickly and does make it to the Preakness. I would like to see him avenge himself. There is no way he is the quality of horse to come in second to last in the Derby. He is one of the best colts running this year.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: Rare Bird Sightings

geronimo2123 — Thu, 07 May 2009 10:16:30 GMT

He Steve,

Great discussion on MTB...

Time will tell, but Borel did it again! As for POTN, Musket Man and Papa Clem, POTN ran a courageous race, but not only did POTN bump hard into Papa Clem, but he knocked that one squarely into MM. Musket Man was reeling them both in and if you watch the overhead film he was on his way by when he got bumped. Coa said it cost his horse 2nd place as he only lost by a nose and, according to Coa, those two were backing up at that point.

Gutsy run by all three. But why is the Derby run like a greyhound race? The traffic?

In greyhound racing, incidental bumping is permitted, but bumping before the wire can be a dq. Apparently, bumping anytime is ok in the Derby, but POTN's jockey Gomez is a hypocrit as he cried until Big Drama was DQ'd with Coa on board when that one came out and hit TOFP before the wire, even though Phil was not getting past Big Drama at that point.