Why Was Orb Retired?

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Mike Relva — Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:07:15 GMT

Steve

Thanks for raising the questions regarding Orb. Another example when fans get excited about a horse,he's retired too early.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Cassandra.Says — Thu, 14 Nov 2013 07:50:33 GMT

After the Derby, we never saw that Orb again.

He was corked. And what is that, you ask? I've always wondered but I don't know what happens. You know it when you see it. A horse puts out an awesome performance, and one only. Still fast, looks good, going sound, vet is baffled, but the extra something isn't there any more.

The first horse I saw corked, a filly, was run in the Oaks on a Monday setting a flyaway pace and having no answer to the one filly who had stayed in range of her and was able to mount a closing run. On the following Saturday they sent her in the colts' classic. She set the pace and was ultimately eased.

She raced through four, sound, looked sharp and she could beat any horse on the grounds . . . for five furlongs. Never placed again beyond that even in an allowance race against fillies.

Corked.

If you (or a couple of vet teams) can't find anything, it's not blameworthy to say "There's something wrong. We just can't find it."

Retirement is never the wrong thing for the horse. They can pump up their egos just fine chasing the dogs out of their paddock.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

rachel fan — Thu, 14 Nov 2013 06:31:09 GMT

Orb's situation is reminiscent of Rachel Alexandra's sudden departure from racing without a satisfying explanation from their connections. Both horses were sound and no mention was made of any injuries, although Steve Asmussen made a telling comment in the early part of Rachel's 2010 campaign when she just didn't seem to have the same speed or fire. He said something to the effect of, 'she has to want to win.' That surely should have told us something about her condition and where they were ultimately headed. It's too bad that we, the fans, end up feeling like we've been robbed by not having the opportunity to see these magnificent horses develop and mature, or to even say farewell, which was the most painful part in Rachel's case.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Greg R — Thu, 14 Nov 2013 05:07:49 GMT

I'm startled at how many people are able to read Orb's mind and to determine that he no longer wants to race. I don't possess that ability to psycho-analyze a horse. I do, however, know that some horses take longer than others to get back into the swing after a prolonged absence. Orb took a while to get going at a top level at the beginning of the year, remember? But then he reeled off a succession of sharp wins. He was NOT a "one-shot wonder!" But that spring form cycle peaked with the Derby and could not be sustained. Such a cycle might be repeatable, however. The major reason I supported him for the KY Derby was that he beat Violence, for which I had high regard, and that win was not over a sloppy track, so "Boom!" there goes another myth about him. Oh, well. The best of so many horses' racing potential has gone unrealized. So, farewell, Orb. Happy grazing.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Bonnyboone — Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:01:17 GMT

I remember the good old days when horses not only raced until they were five or six, at least, but fans had a connection and knowledge to the owners, not just the jockeys and trainers. That is missing and, I feel, adds to the downfall of racing. I know that, if I had a broodmare to breed, I would avoid all stallions that didn't race or didn't stay racing through their fourth season, at least. I would want a sound horse to breed to. That might be at the root of the secrecy surrounding Orb...there are breeders that want to breed to only sound horses. If the horse is unsound or sour, they don't have to broadcast it but the announcement should give us a better reason. Fans are the backbone of the industry...if too many get disgusted at cover-ups, it isn't good for the future of racing. I still think it would be better to feature the owners of these horses a little more like they did in the old days...it put more of a human touch to the industry.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

swaps55 — Wed, 13 Nov 2013 18:51:45 GMT

Orb was not at the very top of my list of faves in this crop. But his connections deserve to win the kind of races Orb triumphed in. His form has obviously tailed off for whatever reason and that is most likely why his top drawer connections retired him. I would assume they were not concerned about a lower stud fee, but did not want to see him floundering in races. Usually the horses that keep on racing have something still to prove...and in any event Orb will not be there to contest it. It is sad that the industry has far fewer Round Tables that are small tough and durable... and that one got away from Claiborne as I recall. It was the horses that ran a lot, like Swaps and even the carefully managed Zenyatta, that build those fan bases.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

bowlofflowers — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:07:19 GMT

I too am disappointed that Orb was retired.Like many here I think that the horse must have given the impression that he was not thrilled with training or with racing. If that is so, he will tarnish his lovely early 3 yr old campaign if forced to race now or at 4. His Travers race was great for a come back race. The next race, not so hot. So he through in a clunker. I think the money it costs to insure a Derby Winner on the track was not a problem for the connections but how will we ever know? I hope that Orb will prove useful as a stallion and have the safe, retired life he has earned. I will miss him on the track.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

papillon — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:32:00 GMT

if orb is a bad bleeder, retiring him is the right decision, and would explain the cagey-ness of the explanation. he would be sound, but not a great breeding prospect.

is the rumor only based on his hyperbaric treatments? if so, it's baseless.

hyperbaric treatment can't treat or prevent bleeding. it can promote healing of certain types of injuries but it can't repair broken capillaries or prevent them from bursting in the future.

it's a very sound treatment for all horses briefly post-race, because it it speeds recovery times. but it has to be used sparingly.

the danger of excessive hyperbaric treatment is that the more you do it, the less able you are to cope with running at sea level oxygen levels. it delivers pure oxygen, which is not what's available.

the effect is just like going from sea level to a higher altitude. it is essentially putting the horse below sea level--which makes you tire much more quickly, just like you do if you go to vale.

both bleeding and too much time in the hyperbaric chamber could absolutely explain orb's travers and JCGC efforts--starting out strong but unable to maintain, by a horse proven he can get the classic distance (the belomont doesn't really count, 12f is hard for most horses, even those proven at 10f--and front runners have always had the advantage in that race).

given that a very good horse, who won 5 in a row, and manged 3rds in the belmont and the travers (and lost the travers by less than a length), has been compared to mine that bird and called a fluke several times in this thread, would be enough for me to retire him, if he was mine.

palace malice's wins are more deserving of the fluke title than orb's, as are will take charge's--he had a strong finish in the BCC, but so did drosslemyer...i'll be impressed if he can finish ahead of game on dude twice (assuming game on dude does run in the clark). and as much as i like much macho man and am happy for his connections for his BCC win...he's never proven to be a consistently strong horse--he looses far more races that he should have won than game on dude does...for whatever reason.

my theory is that game on dude is too used to small fields, and the large fields of the BCC make him uncomfortable and throw him off.

he never ran in the TC race as 3 year-old, his only large field attempts have been his 3 BCC's and only chantel put him in a position where field size was moot--in a clear lead.

all three top finishers are horses used to large fields.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Alex'sBigFan — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 02:42:46 GMT

ksweatman,

Exactly what I was thinking when I posted "they don't want him to regress even more" above. Blogs ago I had mentioned he was on some kind of a downward spiral, him and a jockey who's name escapes me right this minute (Alberado maybe) but for very different reasons. It could be they want his fans to remember him as the Derby Winner and not tarnish that image with further losses.

But I don't know, Steve says it's not the breeding money, they wanted to race him at age 4. Maybe it's as simple as all the other early retirements at age 3, barring injuries. Maybe it's the trend, go out in a blaze of glory while still young before you are a has been or also ran. Maybe their primary goal was the Derby and they felt he did enough as much as they would have wanted a 4 yr. old campaign? We can second guess it all we want but we still don't really know.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Steel Dragon — Tue, 12 Nov 2013 00:21:57 GMT

Wren: Thanks for the reply - didn't know about that.

Tiz: I'd be stunned if MMM came back...

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Alex'sBigFan — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 23:19:12 GMT

I agree with all of your comments here Steve. We may never know why, we live in a world where we are not privy to full disclosure. Perhaps he lost some momentum or lost his desire to race and compete, perhaps they don't want him to regress even more, assuming he is on that route. Perhaps he's more valuable at stud now than if he lost the Cigar Mile. Do we have a right to know, I should think so, we are the core fan base and have invested our time, emotions, money, and support into the horse and the sport.

Most of the "retirement" propaganda anyway in general sounds like it was written by PR firms, not the connections. Breeding is where the real money is made so if the stud fee is $40,000 X how many mares he covers a breeding season (say 100+) and there you have it.

I'll miss Orb, he is a handsome looking colt and had so much promise Derby time. The photos are great Steve. He'll go on now to make us little orbits and circles.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Tiz Herself — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 23:02:18 GMT

2014 still has promise to be an exciting year - imagine Cozmic One and Jess's Dream will both ignite even more following than they already have.

Wise Dan will be back and it looks like Palace Malice has been confirmed. Cannot wait to see him at four! Curlin was just as monsterous at four as he was at three.

Sounds like Groupie Doll might be back - imagine the results will depend on her next start vs the boys.

Nothing has been really said either way regarding Mucho Macho Man but hope he comes back, too.

Fans of Barbaro can appreciate too that he has a two year old full brother Pennmarydel.

Rachel's sis Samantha Nicole should be soon to start her career too.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Soldier Course — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 21:26:32 GMT

ksweatman9:

I like your reason. It's so pure. Chances are it's not the real reason for Orb's retirement, but it sure would be a good one.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Vaduz — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:08:29 GMT

I believe we're missing the original commentary's point, but some phrases throws us off. The fans deserve an explanation is just a very small view. The public in general need an "interesting" (to say it somehow) explanation, not for their sake but for the sake of the sport. We don't want people to get bored because of repeated disillusion and bad PR management. So a good written explanation does a lot for the sports health. Now, the big problem is: As an

owner with my future benefits in mind, do I say the truth or not? Only if fast money is the reason, would this be somewhat embarrasing. But there are nice ways to go around that and still have a good PR explanation. Remember, the sport is the one benefitting or hurting from this, not a few fans. On the other hand, what if he's a bleeder, or he does not want racing, or he has leg issues. Do I tell this publicly or not? Would this devaluate him? Really? I would say Breeder's already know or will find about any of these problems anyhow. And yet, in the long term we've also seen breeders pay expensive breed to multiple studs with these defects. So maybe a honest, well-written explanation will do good for the sport (not just the fans). Even saying they don't want to run him anymore because he's lost interest, in the end sounds good, as it is ultimately for his safety. Further than that, they can do what they want (except hurt them).

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Steve Haskin — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:28:13 GMT

If you think this is about money you obviously know nothing about Phipps and Janney. If it was about money, this column would never have been written. Trust me, they wanted to race him at 4.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Jean in Chicago — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:27:57 GMT

Steve, I can't completely agree with the 'he's their horse and they can do want they want with him'. If so, none of us would be angry with the owners/trainers who send horses into lower and lower class races. Most of us here love horses and want to see what is best for them.

Personally, if I owned a thoroughbred, I'd be terrified every time he stepped on to a track and probably would collapse from either high blood pressure or bleeding ulcers. On the other hand, 2 & 3 yr olds are still comparative babies and I'd like to see what they do at 4 or 5 when they've grown up. Sure, Wise Dan is a gelding and Zenyatta a mare, but would we know them at all if we just went by their 3 yr old races?

We can speculate all day about Orb's retirement, but I don't think we'll ever get a final answer. But after seeing Zenyatta or your picture of Damascus running around their paddocks with their tails up and flying, maybe they're just happier being horses and not racing machines. And it takes a wise horse person to recognize when its time leave the track.

And Steve, if you wanted to try the National Geographic thing, I expect you could get a bunch of female fans to pose naked as long as we could stand behind the horses. I'd have to stand behind the hindquarters, since I'm short enough to walk under a thoroughbred's belly. Or we could make "colorful native costumes' out of jockey silks.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

DontHateMe — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:52:55 GMT

Come on Steve.......You know it's about the money! What would you like them to say? Orb doesn't look good and is struggling?! Maybe he is not as good as we all thought.

Now give us our $40,000 stud fee!....Really?

Like it or not,obviously a money move!

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Tiz Herself — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:21:36 GMT

Definitely am going to miss Orb - he joins Bernardini, Smarty Jones, Afleet Alex, Big Brown, Any Given Saturday, Discreet Cat, Octave, Street Sense, etc. the question of what could have been? what might have been? However, I wish Orb the best in retirement - in a few years times we will get to see little Orbs running around.

Although the majority of this year's three year old crop is now retired and in the breeding shed or otherwise, am looking forward to the return (hopefully of)

Normandy Invasion

Will Take Charge

Mylute

ItsmyLuckyDay

Vyjack

Frac Daddy

Goldencents

Departing

Governor Charlie

Incognito

Revolutionary

Moreno

Abraham

Admiral Kitten

Air Squadron

Balance the Books

Beholder

Bern Identity

Black Onyx

Brown Almigthy

Capo Bastone

Cerro

Charming Kitten

Code West

Delhomme

Den's Legacy

Dewey Square

Dreaming of Julia

Kauai Katie

Dynamic Sky

Forty Tales

Fury Kapcori

He's Had Enough

Know More

Long River

Micromanage

Midnight Taboo

Omega Star

Palace Malice

Power Broker

Princess of Sylmar

Quinzieme Monarque

Rydilluc

Super Ninety Nine

Title Contender

Uncaptured

Unlimited Budget

Rose to Gold

Close Hatches

Midnight Lucky

the above three year olds from the boys and girls who am hopeful are coming back.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Wrensflight — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:08:30 GMT

Steel Dragon, it's true that Thoroughbreds are bred to run, but not all of them want to race. That's one of the reasons for so many OTTB retraining facilities, like Second Chance Ranch in Washington or Horse Creek Thoroughbreds in South Dakota (they're trained to be ranch horses there). I've had several OTTB's that I've used for hunting, polo, and trail riding. Orb might be a perfect candidate for a new career if his owners didn't consider him to be such great stallion potential (which I do not).

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

ksweatman9 — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:37:10 GMT

Thinking about this again, I've come up with the possibility that Orb is being retired because he IS a derby winner. I tried to put myself in the owner's shoes. My horse won the Kentucky derby. My pony has now crossed into the elite club of derby winners. After thinking I died and went to heaven, reality sets in that my horse is now on a losing streak and with each race his reputation as a champion is being tarnished. I can hear the whispers, "a fluke", "just got lucky". I start to doubt my beloved horse. How many races will he lose, 3,5,10? Has he lost his heart to run? Will he ever win again? How will this effect his status as a derby winner? What will his fans think of him? I've made my decision. I can't bear to watch him spiral downward. I don't want to further damage his image as a champion thoroughbred who won the most prestigious race in America. He's no longer just a race horse, he's a derby winner. That's how I want him to be remembered, the one who won the roses. I don't want that vision to be clouded by his losses. I've decided to retire him now and preserve his dignity. Money has no bearing on my decision. I love this horse, he's my pride and joy, and I care about his legacy. Just some food for thought.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Bill Two — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:28:58 GMT

Well, Phipps and Janney have an investment in Orb and wish to protect it. It's obvious the horse has some problems which the owners don't care to discuss. As a Derby winner he's got a big shot at stud and they don't want to do anything to jeopardize it. A few more performances like the JCGC and he may not be able to get booked to the same quality of mares he otherwise would have.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Johnny — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 14:32:50 GMT

As fans we all deserve more.

That is why Zenyatta was such a treat..

As far as them retiring any horse as a 3 year old I say whatever take your toy and go home.

Better part, I like is the commercials trying to sell them as a stud.

Just sitting chilly until derby talk starts.

Nice pics Steve.

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

lunar spook — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:31:44 GMT

It just seems to me that the entire racing world from owners to trainers on down , cant wait to rush the colts to the breeders shed , its happening in Europe as well , I would have love to see what DECLARATION OF WAR AND FRANKLE could have went on to do , but these days unless your gelded , you will have a 6-8 race career at best , but the old adage still holds true MONEY TALKS !

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

The Deacon — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:37:29 GMT

Steve: Not to change the subject but I am wondering if you were going to post a blog about Hollywood Park. My heart is breaking as I spent so many years there in my youth. To come to reality that the curtain is about to fall on a hallowed race track is about more then I can bare.

I have been pretty upset about the whole thing since we were all informed. The sign of the times, maybe but for horse racing loyalist

losing a great race track is heart breaking. Nevertheless I was hoping you could share some old Hollywood Park memories

re: Why Was Orb Retired?

Yukon — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:07:26 GMT

As surprised as I was by Orb's retirement, I was shocked by the sale of Point Of Entry to Adena rather than a retirement to stud at Claiborne, the traditional destination for the top horses in the Phipps stable. As one of the last good sons of the great Dynaformer and from a good Phipps family, Point Of Entry would have been a far more desireable stallion prospect than others which have been retired to Claiborne in recent years. Bold Ruler, Seeking The Gold, Easy Goer, Buckpasser - all Phipps-breds retired to the storied pastures of Claiborne for their second career. Why not Point Of Entry? He was surely as much desired by Claiborne as he was by Adena. And Boisterous? As a successful, stakes-winning son of Distorted Humour - an outstanding sire whose sons are notably missing from the stallion barn at Claiborne - why was he also not retired to the legendary stud farm? Other horses with lesser pedigrees and racing records are to be found there. Why not Point Of Entry and Boisterous? There is far more unsaid than has been stated to date.