Mine Boggling

re: Mine Boggling

Freetex — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:28:28 GMT

Oh Steve, so well said. Mine That Bird is a marvelous, gutsy, horse. I hope Chip Woolley gets some rich owners and commands the respect of the ditsy agents and jockeys who are running hither and thither.

Mine That Bird will make history and a smart agent and jockey ought to be able to see that.

The Bird's the word!

re: Mine Boggling

Shawn P — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:35:09 GMT

FS, yes, when one of those 'little' guys gets hurt they just don't have anything to back them up. Really sad when anyone gets hurt, but think when you can't even have any back up to support your family. That's just even more sad and tragic.

But really isn't this deal about insurance the same thing that a lot of people talk about everywhere? Then the W/C in some states is killing the game. What a mess we have!

re: Mine Boggling

Shawn P — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:31:01 GMT

Mike, nobody said GO anywhere. But, you're tilting at windmills here.

First, he never said YOU were Jock Agent (unless you took it so personally for a reason?), second, HE was telling the guy that even though people may not know the business inside out, they have a right to their opinion and he seemed like someone 'pretending' to be an insider and telling others they don't know what they're talking about.

Now if that's what you 'fight against' fine, you're of a like mind.

Seems more to me that you're upset when someone who really DOES know the business, speaks?

re: Mine Boggling

Fire Slam — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:09:12 GMT

Shawn P--

I do think it was a mistake parting form his agent. However, he seems to be rebounding well.

I never really thought about the smaller jocks, the ones who arent considered "elite." Shame on me.

But, your right, it is difficult for them to afford, as opposed to Johnny V. K. Dsmx, and others.

re: Mine Boggling

Mike Relva — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:23:23 GMT

SHAWN P

Here's a newsflash! I have as much right to be on here as you or anyone else. He made the attack that I'm always fighting. If that's the case then it can be applied to about seventy percent of everyone that I've seen on these blogs. I'm not going anywhere!

re: Mine Boggling

Shawn P — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:42:30 GMT

I'm not Bradgm, but Geez Mike. He wasn't TALKING to you! He was talking to the guy claiming to be a jock agent who was telling nearly everyone on this comment section that they didn't know the business "Jim F- You obviously don't understand the game either.

Sharon-You obviously do not "know" the business."

THAT is WHAT BRADGM was referencing to, not that HE knew more than others. Get the chip off dude. I know you've battled a bunch on the other blog, go back there if you want to fight.

Fire Slam,

Hey on Joe Talamo? You think it was a mistake when he parted ways with his agent? He sure seemed to get a little too self important for a while.

On the earnings? I think the big time earners can afford insurance, it's the guys who get a couple mounts a week who can't. Course the odds are more in their favor.

re: Mine Boggling

Mike Relva — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:43:12 GMT

BRADGM

I've never pretended to be a jock agent,cause I'm not. Let's clear that up now! Also,for issues that I have w/someone that's cause this individual feels they know everything about everything. That's my opinion for which I'm entitled to. You have your opinion,I have mine! BTW on a blog few months ago I said to this individual they don't know everything. Their reply was,"how do you know that I don't"? Enough said!

re: Mine Boggling

Bradgm — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:28:04 GMT

No Mike, you tried to start a well I won't say it on here. But your comment to me came over a day later and was just an attempt at being incindiary.

Go back and re-read my whole comment. It said "As for the Jock Agent? You're right, a lot on here don't know the business.

Which, by the way? I can tell you aren't a 'real' jocks agent because they all do one thing, which I personally hate by the way. THEY all say I when talking about the Jock riding the horse. So being a 'real' Jock Agent you would have said 'I' or we and for YOUR enjoyment not OUR"

Okay MR, tell me what was so defamatory about that? It was a comment to someone who was repeatedly denegrating the opinions of others on here and claiming to be a jock agent. He called out a number of people and told them they don't know the business or what goes on. I pointed out he's probably correct in saying most DON'T know the business from the inside, but he doesn't seem to either.

I know you have issues with another poster, who I and others have defended. But you're barking up the wrong tree here.

Too many are holding slam blogging in high esteem, this ONE blog is a last bastion of discourse. There's another blog that's more appropriate for that other kind of stuff.

All I saw was you 'calling me out' no actual insight, input or topic related contribution.

re: Mine Boggling

Mike Relva — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:50:16 GMT

BRADGM

I don't disrespect Steve's blog,in fact the opposite. Maybe you should be lecturing others' also. Or maybe you should be taking some of your own advice!

re: Mine Boggling

Bradgm — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:06:53 GMT

Mike, if you weren't always trying to bicker you'd have gotten the point of my comment.

Jock Agent was telling various people on here they 'don't know the business'. My point was that may be true, but his handle of 'Jock Agent' and acting as though HE does 'know' the business, struck me as odd since he definitely doesn't talk like any jock agent I ever met.

I DO know the business, know a LOT of trainers, including one you spoke of on another blog about being very astute, tuned in and someone who really DOES know what he's talking about. My point was that, whether JA thinks these others 'know' the business? It's all opinion. My other points? Taken straight from the horses mouth.

Please don't try and demean Steve's fine stories and blogs by turning it into a slamfest like goes on, on the other blog. THAT's why I rarely post there. Don't like to keep that type of company in real life let alone a cyber world.

re: Mine Boggling

Fire Slam — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:28:34 GMT

I forgot about poor Joe Talamo. Hes pretty darn good. Hes young and will take a hole! Cant forget about Mark Guidry.

I like Shane Sellers. I know the staged walk out at Churchill Downs and him being very vocal was his doing. However, Churchill Downs Inc. is all for themselves. They have people in the corporate offices who dont really care about horse racing, they care about making themselves look good. Shane took a stand against them.

One thing that icks me though, is health insurance for jocks. They make $100 or so for every mount rode at Churchill Downs. Some ride 10 a day. Thats $1,000 a day without winning! I know there are expenses to pay out of that, but when you are a Calvin Borel, Kent Dsmx, Johnny V. or other top jock, your winning. Which means your making way more money.

Why cant you afford to pay a couple hundred a month for quality health insurance?

re: Mine Boggling

Melinda — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:27:32 GMT

AMEN! I would dump borel and smith! I think both jockeys knew they screwed up and were afraid to be accountable, so let's blame the horse and their current schedules. Both have bailed on previous horses in the past, however now they are loyal/committed jockeys?? I don't believe it at all. Borel screwed up the Belmont. Summer Bird did exactly what MTB usually does, Borel went too soon & screwed it up. Smith held up MTB a little too long in the Preakness, so MTB should of won this race. (both jockey errors) Although Smith hadn't had enough time with MTB prior to this race. This horse most likely would of been the triple crown winner. one good reason we don't have a triple crown winner might be the jockeys (maybe we don't have the calibur of talent in the jockeys as in the past) People always blame the horses talent. Look we have an excellent horse with great lineage & we can't keep a loyal talented jockey on him?? The world wants to know why people aren't into racing anymore?? Try looking at these jockeys..it's disgusting & frustrating. We could of had a triple crown winner and these jockeys screw it up!! I know these jockeys will pay for their choices. To somethingroyal....in 1990 the Derby & BC winner is Unbridled... Great Grandfather to no other than.... Mine That Bird!!! I am so proud of this horse & truly love him like no other!!!!! I check the internet daily for current info on him...because I am crazy about him... *.*

Love ya little bird!!

Keep up the great work Steve!!

re: Mine Boggling

Mike Relva — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:29:26 GMT

BRADGM

As for yoyr comment,"alot on here that doesn't know the business". Does that make you an expert?

re: Mine Boggling

Shawn P — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:42:55 GMT

I was thinking maybe only Joe Talamo, recently?

The others are getting up there in age. Robby and Kent are the youngest of that group, yes?

Shane Sellers did more to destroy his career than any of the rest of them besided Kent. Both have had some humbling, Kent got it once, seems to have forgotten it again. We'll see with Shane, he's pretty desperate now I guess.

Robby is humble, to me anyway and is also fairly articulate and seems to do more of his own thinking than Boo.

JB, he rode, could ride, would ride every horse different and better than any other rider if you listen to him.

Tyler is getting better I think. Rough patch humbled him a bit.

Johnny V? He's got to be doing something right or TAP would and could go anywhere else.

re: Mine Boggling

Fire Slam — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:42:35 GMT

Shawn P---

Your right, less and less jocks are coming from that area now. I think it has to do with the different eras.

Bush tracks in Louisiana as they were then, are all but gone. I went to visit my grandmother in St. Martinville, LA and my father tried to show me some of the places he raced, and there are nothing but fields of sugar cane and tall grass.

It also seems the more recent cajun jocks have a better education as well. Its just a different era.

I really like Mike Smith. When he was part of the jock colony at Churchill Downs a few years ago, every time after a race, no matter win or lose, he was criticizing his ride. "I moved to soon, I didn't follow the horse to beat close enough, I asked him to change leads to soon." It was always something he did wrong. Never the horse. Him. Now thats humble.

J. Baily,Tyler Baze, Johnny V. KENT "Freaking" Dsmx,I have seen them all get off a horse after a race, and complain about the horse to the trainer. Hes a head case, he was running straight needs blinkers, or he wouldn't split horses. It was never their fault.

re: Mine Boggling

Fire Slam — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:32:51 GMT

Shawn P---

Your right, less and less jocks are coming from that area now. I think it has to do with the different eras.

It also seems the more recent cajun jocks have a better education as well. Its just a different era.

re: Mine Boggling

Crafton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:36:15 GMT

So sorry folks. I get it ... Wooley figured out his style. My bad.

I had not seen all those quotes. I assumed it was more Borel cause MTB hadn't run that way at Sunland under Wooley. I see I was wrong.

Lecylue ... yes, I have watched a ton of horse racing. And I have seen horses slip up the rail like that many times. Actually Borel did it on Miss Issella on June the 13th. And she not only threaded the rail but got completely slammed into it hard.

Of course Borel doesn't win that Derby without horse. Horses win races. Just like a great coach can't win without excellent players. But I don't think MTB wins that Derby without Borel. If he has to check and then go outside instead of hitting that rail hole then he loses so much momentum it probably kills his chances.

But like I said, while I think that MTB is a really "good" horse, I do not think he's "great". He ran 3 good TC races ... and won 1 of them.

I think he has already "proven" himself to be good. Will he prove himself to be great? I don't really think so. I don't think he's as good as Rachel, Quality Road, Dunkirk, Summer Bird (nor as good as I Want Revenge, and maybe Charitable Man, have to wait to see how much he continues to improve). That's 5-6 horses in this crop I ultimately feel are better and would bet on before MTB if they face off.

Now, of course he won't have to face Dunkirk or IWR cause of injuries. And he may or may not face Rachel and Quality Road.

To me, his success the rest of the year depends on who he faces out of those 5-6 horses and what kind of "trips" he gets in those races.

To me is going to be like the turf horses. Largely dependent on the trip. Like when you see the same group of turf horses run against each other and often the trip will dictate who wins that particular day. MTB is always gonna be a slave to the trip.

And ultimately I think the nail on the head is that Wooley and crew know that Borel fits their horse the best of any jockey ... and because of that they have given him multiple chances to ride.

Ultimately its on them to decide. Do they want to (a) have Borel ride him whenever he can and sub others for him when he can't, or (b) pick someone that isn't as perfectly suited to ride him but will commit to every race.

Again, its the owners that hire the jocks, and not the other way around.

And I personally would choose option A above.

re: Mine Boggling

Shawn P — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:46:12 GMT

It's a phenomenon alright Fire Slam. However, seems like less and less are coming out of there now. The demise of the bush tracks and increased size of Americans may soon have very few jocks from the US.

South Americans are dominant now and the top jock is from France.

But, GoGo, Bailey, Smith, etc all got their start in New Mexico, I read an article about the bush tracks there still being pretty prevalent. Not sure about Texas, another place where a lot of jocks CAME from in past.

re: Mine Boggling

helsbelles — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:15:55 GMT

Sherpa, I like what you said; MTB does deserve all those things. Here's a solution to the jockey problem, although I know it won't be very palatable to some: send MTB to a big time trainer. That way he will be assigned a regular, top level jockey. Otherwise, they will probably just have to be content with what they get. Although, a lot of top horses don't always get their regular rider, for example this weekend Gio Ponti will not have Gomez aboard for the ManOWar stakes.

I would imagine the conversation, as Woolley described to Borel the ride he wanted MTB to get in the Derby, went something like this: "I got two words for you Calvin: Street Sense." Funny thing Calvin gave Warrior's Reward that identical patented CB ride to break his maiden at Gulfstream.

About never seeing a horse go through a hole like MTB did, watch the other little guy with a heart larger than his body, English Channel in the 07 Joe Hirsch Turf Classic with Johnny Velazquez aboard screaming to Eibar Coia as he threaded the needle: "Don't come any closer man, you'll put me over the rail!"

www.youtube.com/watch

re: Mine Boggling

Fire Slam — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:40:02 GMT

For those interested in where the top jocks come from, the following link will take you to a book about titled CAJUN RACING, it is awesome!

store.drf.com/.../CAJUN_RACING_P20052.cfm

re: Mine Boggling

Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:37:50 GMT

probably C. Sutherland wont ride hime because she can't ride him right. You see all those Canadian races, where she made 3, 4 little moves and stayed close? She cant take him back, the one thing Chip Wooley noticed he needs.

re: Mine Boggling

Karen in Texas — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:18:43 GMT

Not Ted Not from LA---Jason's current blog is not so much "funny" as it is "fun" in a creative, script-writing sort of way. He was not reporting or editorializing in the usual sense. (mz's take on it could also be accurate!)

re: Mine Boggling

Zookeeper — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:37:10 GMT

If John Shirref and the Mosses run Zenyatta in the Classic, Mine That Bird will be looking for a new jockey AGAIN, right before a most important race. It is indeed mind boggling that MTB's connections are going to Mike Smith AGAIN. Maybe they are counting on Zenyatta running in the Distaff, which would free Mike to ride MTB. However, what if the Mosses enter another of their horses in the Classic?...

The whole thing gives me a headache!

So, I'll just wish the best to my favorite little gelding in the plain brown wrapping and trust that he will continue to thrill us for a long time, no matter who's on his back!

re: Mine Boggling

Pam S. — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:37:00 GMT

This is Steve Haskin's blog but I'm going to defend Jason's talk-to-the-animals blog:

I imagine many serious handicappers find the anthromorphism of racehorses to be silly (and people who don't follow racing probably find it even sillier). But some fans enjoy it. I was drawn in to the sport by watching a feature on a Derby telecast about a foal growing up to be a racehorse, with the foal "narrating."

I am a former journalist and sometimes write things for fun. I recently penned an imaginary conversation between Rachel Alexandra and Stardom Bound (for my husband's eyes only) and I think it's pretty cute if I do say so. In the 1970s someone wrote a book in the style of great horses telling their life stories ("Straight From the Horse's Mouth"). Kenny Mayne used to write imaginary horse conversations that appeared on the ESPN site.

Is Jason's piece the funniest thing I've ever read? No, but if you think it's "unfunny"

you probably don't appreciate the concept. At the very least it's "cute" and "charming" to many horse fanciers.

re: Mine Boggling

Karen in Texas — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:25:05 GMT

TerriV---Exactly! (Your 11:55 A.M. post)