If Damascus Raced Today

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Beau Gar — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 02:33:52 GMT

Ezgoer1 Easy Goer was a very special thoroughbred,but not in the same class as Dr. Fager and Damascus.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Beau Gar — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 02:30:36 GMT

Damascus is most definitely in my top 5 of all time.I have been watching thoroughbred racing avidly for the past 55 years. My top 5 of all time are Dr. Fager,Damascus,Kelso,Buckpasser,and Secretariat.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Damascus' Grandson — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 02:04:18 GMT

Dear Steve,What a great piece of writing! I have adopted a 23-yr-old Damascus grandson named Mr. J.H.D. (barn name Ben). His race record was nothing like his grandaddy. He ended up at a rescue in Maryland, where I got him for $35. I love learning about Ben's legacy and wondering what parts of Damascus live on in him. He is smart, beautiful, sound, passionate and sensitive, but I guess not very fast!

Thank you for telling such great stories about racing. The humans might stink, but the horses are so heroic and brilliant, and they deserve to be honored.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Ron Wasserman — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:33:27 GMT

I was fortunate enough to see both Damascus and Dr. Fager at various times throughout their careers. Unquestionably, Dr. Fager was the best horse I ever saw (and I have seen every major player since Swaps). I truly believe that at the end of 1968, 'Fager was unbeatable---he had learned to relax and unleash a run at any time, regardless of weight, rabbit, opposition or distance. He had a bad knee and considering the 139 lb. impost given to 'Fager for his final race (the 1968 Vosburgh), there was no point in racing the Good Doctor into 1969.

As years has passed, I have realized that Damascus, while not the equal of 'Fager, was one of the all-time greats as well. Damascus and Buckpasser each possessed devasating runs, the likes of which maybe only Forego and Kelso had. I saw Buckpasser win the Malibu at SA when he uncorked a scintillating final 1/8 to get up over Drin. Buckpasser was definitely a lazy sort, never wanting to do much in the a.m., and doing only what he had to do in the afternoon. But when Baeza asked him for his run, wow! Buckpasser was arguably as fast a finisher as any horse---except perhaps Damascus---who ever lived.

Funny thing about Damascus: he had that powerful move, but if he didn't get by his opposition, he would so often get beat a nose. I saw him pull this stunt in the 1968 Woodward when Mr. Right hung a nose on him at Belmont. The Whiteley runner failed to get past Fort Marcy in the International, lost to the allowance runner Exceedingly at Delaware, lost to Most Host (in the deep mud at SA) in the Strub and couldn't handle Nodouble in Michigan.

Yet, he fired huge every time, regardless of surface conditions, regardless of weight or the opposition.

That was when thoroughbred racing was really something. The greats carried weight, raced on all tracks, on all surfaces, and would race as frequently as necessary. Thoroughbreds had a toughness to them, something lost in the breed, I suppose, through the years. Ta Wee carried 140 and beat the boys; Shuvee won the JCGC when it was two miles, and did it back-to-back years! Forego packed 137 lbs. and spotted weight repeatedly. And Kelso? He was probably the best distance runner this country has ever seen.

Most of all, watching the greats compete back then was a treasure, a real treasure.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

RAGS — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:43:54 GMT

THANK YOU STEVE for not only the article but stating what I've always felt-Damascus is so totally underated! Another is Whirlaway.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

TexSpect — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:00:03 GMT

Mr. Haskins do you think you could find enough info about Forli to develop a story. He was the west coast answer to the eastern stars of his era and stopped over in Chicago on his way east. Unfortunately, as I attested before to a bad ride he never made it. However he was the sire of the great Forego and many useful others. His name can be found in Nuryeve and other foundation stallions. Forli was the sire of Forego, Intrepid Hero, Forceten, Thatch - Champion two year old in Ireland-, Home Guard, Formidable,& Gay Fandango. I would appreciate it as well as I am sure many westerners also.

Also if it is possible for you to email me, I will send a very interesting program for the day of the National Thoroubred Championship in 1975 at Santa Anita. There were notable horses racing on that day and some maidens that I think you would find interesting.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

DANCERS1FAN — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 04:46:10 GMT

Gun Bow: As to Native Dancer, I appreciate that you didn't dimiss him although he obviously isn't real high on your list. He is my all time favorite and I have researched him extensively even though I was not alive to see him.

All: I would just like to add a little even though I could go on all day about how incredible he was. First, it was a WORLD record he equalled as a 2 year old in a race it didn't appear he had a shot to win as he was trapped behind horses til near the end-one of the few times he actually had to really run - and he had just raced 5 DAYS prior to that. As a 2 year old in the month of August 1952 he raced 4 TIMES-all stakes- which was something that had not been done before, followed by the above two races in September. His first race at 3 was the Gotham which was 2 WEEKS before the Derby. He then ran in the Wood the following week and the Kentucky Derby the week after that for his THIRD CONSECUTIVE WEEK of racing. He then had 2 WEEKS to the Withers and then ran in the Preakness the FOLLOWING WEEK. Finally he had a 3 week "break" to the Belmont. If you calculate that out - he ran in 6 top races in a 9 WEEK period. Now that is incredible! And to think if it hadn't been for the terrible trip he had and the ride, he would have won them ALL-just one more stride was all he needed! Maybe running 3 weeks in a row up to the Derby wasn't exactly the best plan either! LOL! I imagine his smaller winning margins in the Preakness and Belmont were because he was tired - that really shouldn't be held against him since he did make sure to win. After the Belmont he raced again 3 WEEKS later then TWO WEEKS after that, then got a month break to the Travers then finished his season with a race 1 WEEK after that. For that season he ran 10 times in a 4 month period in all the top races of the day! His trainer said he had blazing speed but was trained to be a stretch runner and his jockey reported he liked to pull himself up after making the lead - maybe it made it more exciting..? They said he was extremely intelligent!

His Met Mile was considered by those in the know who saw it, to be one of the most exciting races ever! According to my 1954 American Racing Manuel - he did not share HOTY honors at 4 - only at 2 due to the prejudice at the time of one voting group against choosing two year olds as HOTY.

For the record also - his stride was 29 feet - longer than Man O' War's. And yes, people first took notice of him due to his color but then were captivated by him and his amazing performances! And just think what he may have done if he wasn't so badly managed....!

Saratoga AJ: did you ever actually see him race that you remember?

Sorry Steve - I usually try not to stray from the topic but I really wanted to get this info out there!

re: If Damascus Raced Today

NEVERKICKYOURDOG — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:09:31 GMT

STEVE,

FANTASTIC...I ADMIRE, AGREE WITH & RESPECT YOUR PREJUDICE AND YOUR PASSION ABOUT DAMASCUS. IF ANYONE HAS WINNER'S CIRCLE PICTURES FROM THE PREAKNESS,BELMONT, AMERICAN DERBY, TRAVERS, ETC.,( I WAS THE GOOD LOOKING 20-21 YEAR-OLD) PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Saratoga AJ — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:24:40 GMT

Lazmannick:

Northern Dancer was a grandson of Native Dancer...by way of his mother Natalma. So without Native there would be no Northern! :)

re: If Damascus Raced Today

LAZMANNICK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:59:42 GMT

MZ:

I wanted to keep my comments about Native Dancer confined to his races and not to his extraordinary ability and influence as a sire.

Northern Dancer is without question my favorite race horse, if it is possible to have a favorite. Northern Dancer was unwanted at auction, was one of the meanner horses that ever lived and was very small, but he had the biggest heart. Without Native Dancer and Northern Dancer, I wonder what the industry would be like today.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

mz — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:31:55 GMT

LAZMANNICK: ...and grandsire of Northern Dancer!

Also, didn't they call Native Dancer one of the first great fan favourites because he was grey and you could see him on TV?

And da2hoss: I wanted to say "Mom's Command" but I figured that everyone would know Abby Fuller and Peter Fuller. And I still am upset about Forward Pass. Thank Gawd he didn't win the Belmont -- it would have meant the first (and hopefully, the last ) asterisked Triple Crown.

Dancer's Image was.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Abbie Knowles — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 17:49:02 GMT

All the racehorses you all mention are great in their own right. We all have our personal favourites and that is right and proper!

re: If Damascus Raced Today

LAZMANNICK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 17:26:29 GMT

da3hoss:

Sorry...you're right, Mom's Command probably won't get the attention and respect she deserves....she never really did. She was a much more acomplished filly in her element than Dancer's Image was in his although he did beat a pretty good horse in Iron Ruler who in turn would beat Captain's Gig and Dewan and finish placed ahead of the likes of TV Commercial and Subpet. D.I. also beat Verbatim, a Phipps horse I believe and the sire of a good horse who raced recently called Summing.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Saratoga AJ — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 17:12:38 GMT

Gun Bow,

i was only 5-7 when the Dancer ran. i just go by what I've read and seen. It was a known fact that ND was a "lazyish" runner...and only ran as hard as he had to to win, and tried to pull himself up once on the lead. But on the other hand, I hear his stride was one of the longest ever recorded...and the equal to Man'O'War's legendary stride.

And again, there is no doubt he was probably the most influential sire of the second half of the 20th Century.

He certainly belongs in the list of greatest of all time...but it's a very tough task in deed to rate horses from different eras.

But oh that head in the '53 Derby.

www.youtube.com/watch

re: If Damascus Raced Today

da3hoss — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:49:22 GMT

LAZMANNICK, well, I was trying to phrase it as to not immediately give away the horse's name, which actually you didn't mention and therein lies the problem, the story would be about the great, wonderful and deserving mare "Mom's Command" and her regular jockey, but as you immediately responded, there would be too many that focused only on DI's disqualification and not the wonderful mare of later years. What was I thinking?

re: If Damascus Raced Today

eliz — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:36:40 GMT

Let's not forget the great gelding Exterminator, one of my all time faves!

The following is a quote by Willie Knapp, Exterminator's jockey and who rode "Upset" to victory over the great "Man O'War"...

"Willie Knapp became an instant fan of the tall chestnut gelding. Many years later he said of the champion: "When he was at his best, Exterminator could have beaten Man o' War or Citation or Kelso or any other horse that ever lived on any tralck doing anything."

Also, let's examine the weight issue..."Exterminator's best season was as a seven-year-old in 1922. He won 10 of his 17 starts, carrying an average weight of 133 pounds and a high of 140."

Today, this feat would be impossible or very unlikely achieved. What indeed has happened to our "iron horse"?

One more question...

Will we ever see another Triple Crown Champion in our lifetime or a horse that can "do it all?"....Just food for thought.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Ragsy — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:36:40 GMT

Steve, Thank You.. for this wonderful story......it is GREAT......

re: If Damascus Raced Today

LAZMANNICK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:34:04 GMT

GunBow:

I read your post and loved it. If I could offer a couple of points regarding your “horse of the moment” question about Native Dancer:

• He was one of the first thoroughbreds to capture a national TV audience…the Gotham.

• Apparently after this race he became ‘our first nationally watched TV horse or hero’ as one writer stated. And back in those days, given the differences in the times, that would take on more significance then today.

• The entire country was aware of his Triple Crown run, following him much in the same way as they did Seabiscuit, albeit for different reasons.

• Made the cover of TIME Magazine in 1954…a huge honor back then.

You also didn’t mention the fact that he carried 137 lbs. in the Oneonta Hdc., his last race….winning it by 9-lengths on a sloppy track.

Some of the strong facts about Native Dancer:

• His remarkable consistency.

• The way he came back after a very long layoff and continued winning.

• It is also worthy to note that in many of his races he didn’t win by much, but the chart callers were impressed nonetheless by listing their comments as: ‘drew out easily’, ‘in hand’ and ‘much the best’.

• His first race he was 7-5. After that he was never greater than even money again.

Was he better than Damascus? Once again we’re talking about different era’s. I think they were both remarkable and would have been stars in any era.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

LAZMANNICK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:15:00 GMT

da3hoss:

Can you say...Peter Fuller.

You could also have added: and is the ony person to have had a Kentucky Derby winner disqualified three days after his horse won the race.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

da3hoss — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:52:59 GMT

Hey Steve, I think you should write a blog on the only man to breed a Hall of Fame racehorse and that horse's jockey! ;-)

re: If Damascus Raced Today

GunBow — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 06:01:41 GMT

Saratoga AJ:

What I was trying to convey is that if someone or some publication, like the Bloodhorse, ranked Damascus over Native Dancer, I wouldn't be up in arms. However, as I wrote, I have no problem with the current rankings which have Native Dancer 9 spots ahead of Damascus.

I fully respect Native Dancer and understand why so many rate him highly. He was basically perfect on the track, with that notorious head defeat in the Derby his only blemish. Additionally, since I was not alive when he was racing, I never got to experience the "magic" he created for so many fans. All I can do is look at his past performances and tapes of a few of his races; what I am missing is the effect he had on racing and society, and how popular he was. In other words, I wasn't around to experience the "legend" of Native Dancer.

Given this cavaet, and basing my opinions only on the resources I have 50 years after the fact, I see a few holes in his resume that would allow me to accept horses like Damascus, and especially Affirmed and Spectacular Bid, being rated ahead of him. As consistent as Native Dancer was, he was a non-Triple Crown winner that defeated older horses in a stakes race only once, in the 54' Met Mile. It should be noted that Native Dancer carried 130 lbs in the Met Mile and conceded 13 lbs to the runner-up. However, the Met Mile was the only stakes race he won carrying 130 lbs or more, and only one other time carried more than 126 lbs to victory, that being the American Derby under 128 lbs. Finally, time-wise, Native Dancer did not post the times of some of the other greats, breaking a track record only one time when he won 6.5 furlong Futurity at Belmont in 1:14 and 2(on a straight). Coinciding with his solid, but not exceptional times, is that Native Dancer was not particularly dominant in the biggest races of his career, losing the Derby, then winning both the Preakness and Belmont by only a neck, before taking the aforementioned Met Mile by a neck. A typical Native Dancer performance was to settle early, and then sweep to the lead in the stretch before drawing off to a comfortable 2 length win in respectable but not exceptional time. Significantly, Native Dancer was never a sole Horse of the Year, losing the award at age 3 to the older horse Tom Fool(the two horses never met), while sharing the award with One Count at 2 and with Dedicate at 4(when he made only 3 starts and won only one stakes).

Clearly, I am nit-picking, and being overly critical. Native Dancer was an obviously great horse and I am not seeking to refute this. However, as I stated in the discussion of Damascus, when we talk about the 10 best horses EVER, the differences are so small, and so much of it is subjective. With such little separating many of these wonderful horses, the fact that Native Dancer did not win the Triple Crown yet defeated older horses only once in a stakes race, really didnt carry weight(Skip Away's resume is actually more impressive in this regard), and set few speed records should factor into any all-time rankings list. Again, this is not to say that I think the Bloodhorse got it wrong by ranking him #7, but I could understand those who would choose to rank him lower, perhaps even below a horse like Damascus. I must repeat though, that my analysis is lacking the "being there" factor and how Native Dancer was able to captivate the nation. It seems like that for those that either saw Native Dancer in person or on t.v., he is revered as much as any horse; perhaps, Native Dancer is just one of those horses you had to see to get the full magnitude of his greatness.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Tiznowbaby — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:04:57 GMT

Gunbow, I know she doesn't rank with Azeri, but one of my personal favorites this decade was Dreaming of Anna. She was the champion 2YO, and yet she was allowed to race on at 3 AND 4. I think she finished out of the money only three times.

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Abbie Knowles — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:34:24 GMT

For buying other peoples horses principally. Oh perhaps they do not do it in the US. But on Teletext Racing Chat they often criticise Sheikh Mohammed, Godolphin,Frankie Dettori and say that Saaed Bin Suroor cannot train and it makes me really cross!

Also when I feel fragile as now as I had a hellish week last week, as we all do at times! I overeact. Although not in this instance!

I was not getting at you!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Steve Haskin — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:08:17 GMT

Abbie, I have no idea what you are referring to. Criticizing Sheikh Mohammed for what?

re: If Damascus Raced Today

Abbie Knowles — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:27:32 GMT

Hi Steve

i was not accusing you of criticising Sheikh Mohammed but lots of bloggers do! Lots of people do! I cannot understand it. Can you?

God Bless

Abbie