Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Hasty'smoosh — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 03:05:42 GMT

If Commanding Curve gets in he will be ultra tough in the Derby. It will be his third race off the layoff and it sets up for him as well. He is already at Churchill working out as well. My other horse is Ride on Curlin who is a grinder and ultra consistent. Good luck to all but I would definitely play a kentucky trainer!!

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Greg R — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 04:20:02 GMT

Ride On Curlin's trainer says they want to revert to the horse's previous style, sitting back and making a stretch run. Trainer thinks RON would prefer to run that way.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

DreadLocksRasta — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 02:47:27 GMT

Horses have to show versatility, and the ability to overcome adversity. In California Chrome, i saw all of the above, and then some. He has what every legitimate Derby contender needs, that all important 2 year old seasoning. Now at 3, he is putting it all together and is undefeated going to the Derby. He is showing Maturity. He is now allowing his rider to rate him, before pressing the go button. You have to have a horse peeking at the right moment going into the Derby, and from all appearances, California Chrome, is exemplifying that. He broke tardily in the Santa Anita Derby, bumped, jostled before settling going towards the stands for the first time. Now, some horses would get rattled by that, along with their riders. But not Victor Espinoza or California Chrome, they both shrugged it off, bullied their way into contention, let everyone know that they were not going to be intimidated, and the horse respond with one of those wow performances every racing fan would be in awe of. I wish the connections all the best in Kentucky on Derby day, and hope and pray the horse stays healthy for the big dance.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

furlongs — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 18:35:13 GMT

I think after seeing the FL Derby Constitution def can pass horses. I mean they went 48 and he was about 2 back down on the inside. No way they go that slow in the derby which should put him about 7 back down the backside ready to make that important move to the lead coming out of the final turn. Just hoping he draws an outside post where he isn't going to be down inside and he should run a nice race. He is def one I am considering as my key horse in the gimmicks. Also he passed horses in his debut. I am def playing against the Wood winner and hoping cause he is such a big closer he is the wise guy horse that gets way to much money on the win end of the tote.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Brontexx — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 18:34:38 GMT

Stevens agent will have to call an audible at the line of scrimage after the trouncing by CC,he will have to jump ship onto another colt and leave Sadler and his ofer record alone.Steve Haskin what is Sadlers record for grade 1 shippers when they ship outside of California?

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Brontexx — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 18:32:51 GMT

Stevens agent will have to call an audible at the line of scrimage after the trouncing by CC,he will have to jump ship onto another colt and leave Sadler and his ofer record alone.Keelerman what is Sadlers record for grade 1 shippers when they ship outside of California?

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Windolin — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 17:16:19 GMT

Coldfacts, I will have a response to you when I get home from work this evening barring severe thunderstorms. I do know a thing or two about genetics and breeding horses.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Ranagulzion — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:00:57 GMT

Steve: Now you have your longed for, legitimate closer in Wicked Strong with a very competent jock, Rajiv Maragh on board to navigate through the wall of pacey front-runners ..and he does have the class to be very dangerous in the Derby (making me eat the words of my previous post). I did fancy him as a contender earlier on after his very promising Remensen performance but gave up on him after the Fountain of Youth. I'm happy for Jimmy Jerkens having a live horse in the Derby.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Mary — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 13:53:50 GMT

Windolin, I agree with you. The focus has been on speed and the industry is suffering. I believe that at some point in time since 1973, there was a horse like Secretariat. Unfortunately he was lightly trained and ran in just a few races, maybe even claiming races like Seabiscuit, therefore his full potential was never realized. Too bad these magnificent creatures are handled by mere mortals.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Coldfacts — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 11:20:12 GMT

Windolin,

“In my opinion and that of many others I might add, the focus has been on speed and I think that the industry has suffered for that.”

I must respectfully disagree with the opinion above. From all indications the Thoroughbred Industry tries to strike a balance between speed and stamina as one compliments the other. Are there any guarantees that the balance sought will result every mating? Certainly not!

Let’s examine two examples from the Derby class of 2014:

Commissioner: He was ideally bred for the Derby distance and longer. He was sired by a Belmont winner and out of a mare sired by a Belmont winner. He is devoid of tactical speed but appears to have an abundance of stamina. He has a grinding running style and he has been easily beaten by horses with far more speed but with suspect stamina in their pedigree. Was he bred for too much stamina at the expense of speed?

Top Billing: He likewise was ideally bred for the Derby distance and longer. He was sired by a Belmont runner up and BCC winner and out of a mare sired by a Belmont and BCC winner. He is also devoid of tactical speed but appears to have an abundance of stamina. He is a ferocious closer as compare to Commissioner the grinder. He was defeated in the FOY by a colt with very suspect stamina in his pedigree. Was he also bred for too much stamina at the expense of speed?

Striking the right balance is very difficult despite years mating expertise as all result are influenced by Genetics Science. The following definition of Genetics Science should shed some light on the difficulty:

‘The branch of biology that deals with heredity, especially the mechanisms of hereditary transmission and the variation of inherited traits among similar or related organisms. The scientific study of the principles of heredity and the variation of inherited traits among related organisms.’

The variations of inherited traits cannot be accurately pre-determined and in many instances does not saatisfy expectation's.

USA TRACKS:

The tracks in the US are more the culprits than an industry that is at the mercy of Genetics Science. Most US tracks provide a distinct advantage to horses with speed. A horse with stamina limitations can be trained and conditioned to carry speed over a long distances. A horse void of tactical speed and has an abundance of stamina is always at the mercy of the pace and distance of a race.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

mhm — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:00:37 GMT

Do you think running Swaps in an allowance the week before the Derby was insane, or brilliant? Will Sherman have his horse as fit? What happened to Indian Charlie after only four preps? Since this group as a whole appear somewhat under-conditioned, and certainly lacking experience, the most fit horse will have a better chance. Quien sabe? Compare the past performances of this group with winners of the past. Mr. Haskins, how does this thesis fit with your view?

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

mhm — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 02:20:41 GMT

At this late date, seeing trainers playing with blinkers and placing makes one point clear: these horses do not have enough starts to become even mildly professional. The relatively slow times of all the stakes mentioned points to the lack of seasoning, as do the short works, often weeks apart. Speed horses? Nah, front runners who lack the conditioning to show real speed. Let's see who works a horse, or breezes, seven furlongs or a mile in the coming weeks. Baffert might do that, but the great majority will come off five furlong works, perhaps galloping out nicely, but not enough conditioning to threaten breaking two minutes. Hothouse flowers will wilt in the sun. Which of these trainers will realize that they are not training quarter horses? That person will have the closer, simply because the rest are not that fit. It is not so much running style as it is fitness; trying blinkers in stakes? There have been plenty of allowance races to have accomplished those experiments way before entering a major stakes. Hopefully Swaps exercise rider remembers how it was done.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

ksweatman9 — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 01:35:52 GMT

Windolin, so right, the goal for breeders and trainers seems to be speed. It's much less a risk if your horse can take the lead and keep it, rather than the worry of getting him from the back to the front in a few seconds time. So much can go wrong, and usually does. That's why Zenyatta was such a marvel. Her style made her special. Coming from off the pace, often far off the pace, and then nailing the wire before the others, not an easy feat. To avoid traffic, she would just go around the field on the far side, she lost ground doing that, but that's how good she was. I think trainers prefer horses with speed who can run wire to wire. They didn't call Silky Sullivan the "heart attack" horse for nothing. It has to be sheer pressure when you have a pony who runs like that. Yeah, closers are wonderful. The fans love them and they earn every bit of that love.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Windolin — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 18:40:29 GMT

ksweatman - I was asking or trying to ask a rhetorical question in response to Steve's comments. I do not for one minute think that there have not been great race horse since Secretariat. Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Barbaro, Zenyatta, Wise Dan, Rachel Alexandra, Smarty Jones, Curlin, Animal Kingdom, Mucho Macho Man, Game on Dude...are just a few that come to mind.

Secretariat was a closer, at least in most of his races. He had speed, agility and endurance that seems to be missing in most of the racehorses running today. In my opinion and that of many others I might add, the focus has been on speed and I think that the industry has suffered for that.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

El Kabong — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 18:08:49 GMT

Torak,

You are close with Cleburne and the race, the Iroquois, but it is his stablemate, Smart Cover, who is the better closer. He finished second and was burning up the ground. Of the two, who both suffered set backs, Smart Cover recovered faster and is still on the Derby Trail. He will run in the Arkansas Derby. Keep an eye on his works. He will be a great horse to key and he only needs a 2nd place finish to get in to the Derby. He has a great closing kick if he is fit, sound and ready. Keep your fingers crossed here and look for a good work at Oaklawn to signal his readiness.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Lamar — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:13:30 GMT

Steve, thank you for input on horse racing, especially the DERBY. All the DERBY preps have been won by colts racing on speed favoring tracks. Is this a planned program leading up to the DERBY? The Wood showed us our first closer, hopefully that is going to give us better insight for the DERBY, unless Church Hill comes up favoring speed. George Costancia angle has given me the exacta the previous two years so maybe again this year. See you at the wire.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Rusty Weisner — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 13:31:50 GMT

We've got another one now.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

hopalong — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 12:27:23 GMT

Some of us never gave up on Wicked Strong and were rewarded yesterday. 1:17 faster than the ladies earlier.

Should love Churchill's stretch

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

ksweatman9 — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 06:34:48 GMT

Windolin, I think Secretariat set the bar for the prized triple crown races. I doubt his performance in 1973 will ever be emulated. That being said, we have been blessed with many great thoroughbreds before and after Secretariat. None have come close to his awesome magic in the triple crown run, but just the same, they were as "great". John Henry ran over 80 times, Kelso, more than 60. Yes, they were geldings, but longevity makes a legend in my book. There were others who entered the starting gate dozens of times, hitting the wire in the money most of those times. Big Red ran 21 times, losing 3. How would he have fared had he ran 50 times? Yes, he was a marvel, but don't exclude all the others who were also great, as much so as Secretariat. Yes, I'm sure I'll get some blow back for my comment, but it's how I feel. I think it's difficult to rate horses with true accuracy, so much needs to be considered.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

ksweatman9 — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 05:54:35 GMT

Perhaps your question was answered in the Wood Memorial yesterday, Steve. Wicked strong played the part well. We all love a great closer, those who come from behind to close like a freight train. With each beat of your heart they pick off another pony, nothing like it. Love those closers.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Geronimo2123 — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 05:41:09 GMT

Two words:

Wicked Strong...

The son of Hard Spun out of a Charismatic mare should have no issue with distance and his late run in the Woods was very strong...I think the extra furlong will do nothing but flatter him and he is yet another runner who is bothered by the racing strip at GP but does fine elsewhere. And he does have some tactical speed (how could he not, out of Hard Spun)? He does appear to be a stalker with a strong late kick and he found another gear in the Wood. Considering what the mile was run in, Samraat is a warrior and SI would have fared much better in the FL Derby (he may have won with the slower fractions in that race). But, it is what it is...

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Rusty Weisner — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 02:25:33 GMT

There's another closer for you, Wicked Strong. Good job, Steve Haskin, keeping faith in this one. I thought he was a wise-guy horse.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Jeffrey Simes — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 02:16:17 GMT

Steve looks like you have the right horse on top in California Chrome, he was very impressive today winning the Santa Anita Derby. A lot of people will be rooting for him.

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Sail On — Sat, 05 Apr 2014 21:52:49 GMT

Steve, we have a closer! Boston Strong! er, Wicked Strong. Samraat also running from mid pack, noses SI for second. It would be a real shame if SI cannot qualify for the Derby :(

re: Calling All Closers; Where Are You?

Giddyup — Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:13:06 GMT

Mine That Bird won't be running in the Derby but if I was hell bent on backing a closer I certainly wouldn't discount any colt ridden by Calvin Borel.