U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Discopartner — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 02:29:10 GMT

All these years later and here's a comment. I'm biased, I much prefer the "ugliness" of North American tracks and everything thing else, compared to English or European racing. I actually find the "beauty" distracting. I prefer farms to parks, and US and Canadian tracks look more like the latter. Don't forget, those people don't own much land over there, it's nothing like the farms here, so they have to rely on public venues to get their nature.

I also find the way they bunch up over there, and then squirt through at the end, to be both annoying and silly. I wonder about the race times and why they all agree to stay in a bunch.

NA race callers are much more to my liking as well, I don't care for the hushed tones they employ while calling races.

I don't much like turf racing anyway, as horses running on a lawn goes against my sense of lawn maintenance.

And as to the breed, it seems popular to put down American stock. But in fact, the best pedigrees are dominated by American horses. The most influential stallions of the last 50 years or more are from NA. It seems extremely silly to concede anything to the English or Europeans on that point. The fact is, we don't need their racing events or horses, at all. They may or may not need ours.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Newturf Horse Racing Game — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:44:12 GMT

Very cool article.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

steve a — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:53:19 GMT

steve,tell me,tell me,tell me your memories and thoughts of sea bird and ribot in the flesh you lucky bugger

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

rashid ali — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:23:19 GMT

Dear Mr. Steve,

Can I have your personal e.mail address.

thanks,

rashid

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

rashid ali — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:21:42 GMT

Dear mr. Steve

as usuall you say the truth in our truthless world .

a great article.

but u forgot to compare the doping !!

goodluck

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Carol — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:00:18 GMT

I believe, as a groom, you are much better off in America. Although I am only speaking for England, the grooms have to work exceptionally hard and long hours and it also is extrememly snobbish. In America, if you have the desire, you can go as far as you want in racing, not so in England. America needs to improve its backstretches, they are ugly places, most of them. I have never understood why that has to be.

American racing is far more accessible for the ordinary person.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

barb — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:42:58 GMT

Ida...Thanks for your kind response. I am not 100% sure of this, but I think Bev Lewis has made arrangements for Charismatic to return to her when his breeding career is over. Also Silver Charm. And I'm glad you like Vodka. I have my fingers crossed that she will come to Breeders Cup.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Ranagulzion — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:35:19 GMT

STEVE,

Perhaps an interesting blog feature along these same lines could compare race riding among the top jockeys of both continents. Interviews with the likes of Steve Cauthen and Gary Stevens as well as Frankie Dettori and Michael Kinane, jocks who have ridden on both continents at the highest level. Then take a poll on who's better in a stretch duel, the Europeans or the Americans. Many people remember Chris McCarron's marvellous ride on Tiznow in his 2000 Breeder's Cup Cl;assic showdown with Giant's Causeway. Also the hypothetical question of whether McCarron would have won the Arc with Nijinsky? Wow.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

No_Class — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 03:19:02 GMT

The video/documentary on Nijinsky (narrated by Orson Welles) is one of my all time favourites. And yes, to Ranagulzion - that Lester Pigott admitted to a jockey error. Also, Nijinsky was plagued by irritating skin problems throughout his remarkable racing career.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Tattenham Corner — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:33:02 GMT

Thanks Steve for such a provocative question and for your references to differences between European and U.S. racing that I had not thought of. One difference I see is that in the U.K. there are big differences among the courses. Some are close to town like Chester. Some are in the suburbs like Kempton Park. Some have appreciable gradients like Epsom. Some are left-handed, some right-handed. Some are huge, with mile straights, while others are modest. A few are quite formal like Ascot, while at least one I can think of is humble enough (Ludlow)to share territory with a golf course (fore!).

This gives the racegoer a variety of experiences that will excite him or her to come back.

But a big difference to me is being able to choose whether to bet on the pari-mutuel or with the on-course bookie. The "rule" used to be to bet longshots on the tote, and favorites with the bookie. I liked betting with the bookie because you knew what you were getting, and if you didn't like that price, you could "shop around" and try to do better. There is also a closeness to racing in Europe that may have existed here in the days of Man o'War or Sea Biscuit. But with a hundred or more TV channels, computerized entertainment, and multiple outlets for betting, horse racing is no longer on the average person's mind. That is true in Europe, but to a lesser extent. The Derby is still the Derby, and most people will have a flutter.

Credit to the U.S. though in being inventive, and organizing an event like the Breeders Cup. I think it's given the sport a needed shot in the arm, and created a demand for first class racing that people had perhaps forgotten could exist.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Ida Lee — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:16:04 GMT

barb - Thank you for your comments about Japan racing. In my head, I know you're right but my heart is a little slow. Ferdinand was my boy. That he died the way he did was unbearable. Now,I'm worried about Charismatic who is in Japan at stud. I think about him and worry all the time. But, I did see the stories on Japan racing and they seem to build the best for training and racing for their horses. I hope it's true. And thank you for leading me to Vodka. WOW what a beauty she is. I will be looking out for her in the future. Thanks again.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Ranagulzion — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:54:48 GMT

STEVE,

Its an honor to be in your august company with respect to our admiration of the nostalgic European champions of yesteryear. We forgot to mention the epic duel between The Minstrel and Hot Grove in one of the most memorable and stirring Epsom Derby finishes.

I also recall that in the earliest days of the Breeder's Cup, the Turf Classic, although pegged a shade lower in purse money than the Dirt Classic seemed to be the high point of the meet. The excitement of Wild Again's hard fought victory over Gate Dancer and Slew 'O Gold on dirt was at least matched by Laskari's massive upset at gigantic odds over the awesome globe trotting mare All Along on the turf. Also, English super filly Pebbles' victory over Strawberry Road in (was it 1988?) eclipsed the dirt Classic for sheer thrill and quality of the field IMO. Those were the days my friend.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

G. Rarick — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:29:24 GMT

Just ask yourself this: If you were to die and come back reincarnated as a thoroughbred, where would you rather be? I can't imagine you would choose the United States, unfortunately. The frustrating thing is that it would not be difficult to put the horse first: Eliminate race-day medication and run longer races with wider turns and alternating directions (and fine, continue to run them on dirt; the dirt's not the problem - it's sprinting around tight corners that kills them).

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Abbie Knowles — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:55:01 GMT

I would love Sea the Champ (STARS!) to run in the St Leger and firmly believe he would win! There is only one Triple Crown!!!!!!! The other big races could wait until next year!

All racing worldwide has its good points. I love racing in Dubai, France, Ireland, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Canada, and the US more or less equally. But not your use of medication!

Nicky Henderson is a good man. Am mystified about that incident!

Yes Steve do come to the Cheltenham festival and watch Ruby Walsh and Kauto Star, MaterMinded and Big Bucks put on masterclasses!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Ranagulzion — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:21:41 GMT

MZ,

As a consequence of the 40 years triple crown drought in English Racing and how special this horse Sea The Stars is, I would think that a victory in the St. Leger is worth much more this year than the Arc, only to his connections. Conduit's impressive victory in last year's BC Turf shows that coming to the Breeder's Cup after the St Leger is a very viable option for them. The amount of buzz surrounding this horse threatens to upstage the excitement over Rachel Alexandra unless she too shows up at the big dance.

On the question of Nijinsky's narrow loss to Sassafras in the Arc, I do recall jockey Lester Pigott admitting that he might have erred in using his whip repeatedly too close to the finish as Nijinsky kept reacting by ducking (in or out ...can't remember)thus losing the fluency of his finishing burst. Perhaps a Chris Mccarron type of ride a-la-Tiznow vs Giant's Causeway would have landed Nijinsky home in front by a neck (LOL). We shall never know, will we?

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

JCRobinson — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:36:59 GMT

OK, last bit about the drug use- yes, the link that Bighorsefan posted does show the B for Goldikova. That is DIFFERENT from the charts from Equibase that I printed off the DAY AFTER the BC. The charts were obviously changed at some point.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Steve Haskin — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:01:14 GMT

Newsline, my bags are as good as packed.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

mz — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:44:44 GMT

Ranagulzion: didn't they say that the reason Nijinsky lost the Arc and the Champion Stakes was because they went to the St. Leger? Might this not, then, set a precedent for Sea the Stars (unfortunately)?

I would love to see your scenario re: HOY. Re: the controversy, however, I seem to recall that Dahlia got champion turf mare (in Canada, at least) after only having run once in Canada. And wasn't there some other fillies/mares who came over to N. Am. for one race and became champions: Miesque? who else?

And I love Longchamp. I was lucky enough to make it to the Arc three years in a row in the late 80's/early 90's. I agree that the settings are beautiful -- but it was hard as heck to figure out who won the sprints because they started waaaayyy out there and finished just past a grove of beautiful trees.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Swale1984 — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:12:30 GMT

Nice points Stan. I would love to go visit some of the European farms at some point. IMO, you hit the nail on the head when you said that they emphasize health and soundness and stamina. American breeders tend to think with dollar signs instead of what is good for the breed. All most of them seem to care about are producing precocious 2YOs with tons of speed (which, unfortunately, usually means that we produce horses with legs that have the resilience of a matchstick). Stallions with pedigrees that suggest stamina or those with sturdy builds tend to get overlooked until they produce a superstar (seriously, how popular was Dynaformer before Perfect Drift and Barbaro came along?). It just frustrates me. I think that the Germans have an underrated breeding program (which produced Monsun, sire of both BC champion Shirocco AND the incredible Manduro, who probably would've made any horse he came up against in the BC look like an allowance type horse instead of high-class racers).

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Steve Haskin — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:37:00 GMT

Ranagulzion, we both went through the same phases. I was hooked on all those Euros -- how about that Grundy -- Bustino King George? And Roberto and Rhiengold in the English Derby. I was in love with Sea-Bird back then and have everything written about him. I virtually grew up at Darby Dan, spending my time with Sea-Bird, Ribot, and Roberto. And seeing Nijinsky at Claibortne. The video/documentaries on Nijinsky (narrated by Orson Welles) and Mill Reef (narrated by Albert Finney) were classics. Those were great days.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Kay — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:05:24 GMT

To Newsline2, one can already experience the sport outside the U.S. with Racing-Europe (not trying to imply a trip with Steve Haskin would not be fun). I have no affiliation with Racing-Europe, other than having been with them on four trips to England, France and Ireland to see the Epsom, French and Irish Derbys among other races. And I am looking forward to our next trip in September/October to l'Arc.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Foxrun — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:47:50 GMT

Excellent article. I'll take the Euros on this subject. First, the horses race drug free there. Second, the horsemanship overall is excellent. Third, the courses augment the horsemanship requiring atheletic ability of rider and horse to handle undulating courses. Fourth, the horses are last longer and can stand the rigors of high weight.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Simon Elsworth — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:07:53 GMT

Having been lucky enough to work in Kentucky for 3 years and now living and working in a racing yard in Newmarket I think your writing has been very fair. English racing has got to do more to sell itself to the general population. But now the industry is so global(lets not forget the great racehorses bred in the southern hemisphere) I find racing as facinating as ever.

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

newsline2 — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:00:13 GMT

Steve you've outlined the itinerary and now BloodHorse needs to package and market several "Travel with Steve" Racing Tours. Gather your family and host tours of fans, players and horse lovers to visit the different tracks. Several different trips; US to Ireland and England, France and Germany, Japan, Australia and places in South America. Maybe even Dubai? I'd think the coordinators of those big races would love to have tour groups visit.

"Racing Travels with Steve Haskin" might give US fans a chance to experience the sport outside the US."

re: U.S. vs. Europe - Which Racing is Better?

Ranagulzion — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:11:04 GMT

Another truly excellent article Steve. It seems to me that the contrast between many aspects of the European "sport of kings" and the American version (sport of the commoners ? LOL)is reflective in some respects of the political/cultural history of the two continents. Both are beautiful in their own way and both have their down side as well.

As a kid growing up the Epsom Derby, King George V & Queen Elizabeth Diamond stakes and the Prix Del Arc D' Triomphe were the biggest deal. Nijinsky II, Mill Reef, Brigadier Gerard, Roberto, Allez France, Dahlia, Grundy, Bustino, Alleged and Shergar were the real super stars backed by Stallions Ribot,Vaguely Noble and Great Nephew in the breeding shed. However the stars of the glorious '70s era of American racing had gradually started a shift in my affection as Secretariat, Forego, Ruffian, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Alydar, Spectacular Bid shone brilliantly, not to mention the stallion prowess of Northern Dancer, Raise A Native and his son Mr Prospector. For me the eclipse of the European brand by North American racing had begun and was completed with the creation of the Breeder's Cup racing festival. Now there is no Derby like the Kentucky Derby and the totally absorbing Triple Crown build up.

Admittedly things are changing rapidly with the introduction of synthetics (whether for better or for worse one cannot tell) so the pendullum could, for me, swing the other way again. Sea The Stars is bringing back fresh memories of Nijinsky II. If he is given the chance to complete the English Triple Crown sucessfully and show up for the Breeder's Cup (win or not)that could create a buzz that should force Jess Jackson to reconsider his plans to bypass the Breeder's Cup with Rachel Alexandra because a Triple-crown-winning Sea The Stars copping the BCC would also be a very legitimate HOTY contender on this continent (with a bit of controversy of course).