Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

JayJay — Thu, 15 May 2014 04:42:32 GMT

Ranagulzion : LOL, I don't know how long it took you to come up with that response but it's pathetic.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Ranagulzion — Wed, 14 May 2014 15:07:33 GMT

Jay Jay:

Your question is rhetorical and mischievious but here goes; Union Rags ran three races beyond 8.5F, The Florida Derby, Kentucky Derby and Belmont Stakes and won the most gruelling 12F contest finishing strongly and going away in the fastes Belmont of the last four years. See fellow poster Johnny's comment for an objective viewpoint of his two other losses ...smart alec (LOL)

As for credibility, mine doesn't need the endorsment of a guy with your obviously flawed judgment ...sorry Pal. I hope that doesn't hurt your ego too much.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

JayJay — Wed, 14 May 2014 07:16:25 GMT

Ranagulzion : 3 Things :

1. Look at all of UR’s 8 races then come back here, post here which races past 8.5Fs he won. I believe Da Tara also won the Belmont...is he a TOP 3YO ??

2. I’ve proven you wrong every time, you can’t provide any information to support your argument. You choose to ignore my questions because it’s pretty obvious you can’t argue with it…now you resort to calling my arguments dishonest lol. Typical immature response when someone can't argue.

3. Credibility is earned, not claimed...earn it. Until you have, keep your ego in check.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Johnny — Tue, 13 May 2014 21:02:31 GMT

Not to get of topic but Union Rags biggest problem was the Jock ask Dialed In.. Notice he did not have a mount in the Derby..

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Ranagulzion — Tue, 13 May 2014 12:42:53 GMT

Coldfacts my friend:

What Union Rags monster do I have to "live with"? That was one crackerjack of a racehorse that we unfortunately didn't get to enjoy fully due to early retirement. Yes his Belmont Stakes was historially slow (as this year's Derby has been described without being a knock on California Chrome) BUT it was the fastest of the last four renewals of the Belmont Stakes. Our mutual friend JayJay, in attempting to discredit my ability to analyse peigree has also knocked down Union Rags with his ignorant and misleading references to slow Belmont time in order to justify his categorization of the horse as a miler(LMAO) Union Rags ran a faster Belmont Stakes than his favourite Palace Malice yet that one is never regarded as not being a true stayer. UR was a far greater talent than PM as a 3YO and few would doubt that he'd very likely be a monster 4YO if the connections kept him in training for one more year. I keep refering to him in my rumbles with Jay Jay to expose the latter's dishonest arguments and hold his feet to the fire.

Regarding Social Inclusion, I think this is the most exciting 3YO colt in America right now and I fancy him to win the Preakness and Belmont Stakes, having been excluded from the Kentucky Derby and a possible Triple Crown sweep under the current qualifying regime. I don't care too much that his trainer doesn't know how far he wants to run. I think that his pedigree has strong class and stamina influences to carry him a mile and a half (Blue Larkspur inbreeding on top as well as Brigader Gerard, and Dr Fager, top and bottom with inbreeding to Mahmoud on the Dam side. I was all aboard Honor Code before the emergence of Social Inclusion and I trumpeted out the coming-out party of California Chrome in the San Felipe BEFORE Steve Haskin promoted him to his Derby Dozen ...the Achives will confirm this but I believe that Social Inclusion is the better colt of the two, bearing in mind that he's a May foal and should be on the rise while his rivals have already run peak performances. Blinkers or no blinkers, its going to be all over bar the shouting when he turns for home at the head of affairs in the Preakness on Saturday.Enjoy

Jay Jay: What you think of my pedigree analytical skills is neither here nor there friend ...the accurate conclusions they lead to are more important. Wisdom is justified by her children (don't know if you ever heard the saying). Who is your pick for the Preakness?

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

JayJay — Tue, 13 May 2014 02:32:53 GMT

Ranagulzion : I went to that blog and I read the whole conversation and I'm correct, I didn't question your criticism of Samraat's distance limitation…it was The Bid that actually asked you about your hesitation with Samraat. I questioned your pedigree analysis "skills" where you went as far back at 6th generations for Shared Belief and then stopped at Storm Cat / Indian Charlie for Samraat, once again proving what I’ve said all along. Your pedigree analysis is nothing but guessing because you only see what you want to see. There are pedigree handicappers here that are honest with themselves, they look at both sides (the potentials and the limitations)…whereas you, you get excited watching a horse romp at Gulfstream and then find something, anything in their pedigree to say he can go the classic distance, then declare them the triple crown winner. You can prove me wrong by posting your record for successful triple crown winner predictions. Another case in point, you said Trinniberg deserved to be in the Derby, his speed will carry and he finished 17th…Samraat has distance limitations and he finished 6th. Care to explain that ? Nah, you can’t, you’ll ignore it just like every one of my questions.

Try again…

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Ranagulzion — Mon, 12 May 2014 18:29:00 GMT

Jay Jay: I gave the archival reference, Steve Haskin's DerbyDozen of March 3, 2014. Sorry buddy, no more spoon-feeding for your questions ...go scan through the blog and you'll see the answer to your question.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Coldfacts — Mon, 12 May 2014 18:13:08 GMT

Ranagulzion,

My dear colleague you have created the Union Rags monster and you must now live with him. If nothing else I admire your passion for the ones you consider special.

UR narrowly defeated a colt with only a MSW victory in the win category en route to his Belmont victory. You will admit he did not live up to expectations a 3YO.

I see you are on the Social Inclusion a bandwagon. I like the colt as I think he has lot of natural talent. However, I do not like his trainer. Any trainer that states after a race "He will kill them next time" should be fired. The statement implies the colt was prepared to kill opponents but was rather prepared to be killed. What prevented his charge from killing them in the Wood?

The field SI will face in the Preakness will be much strong than the Wood. His trainer is now stating he is uncertain how far the colt wants to go. What nonsense!

The colt ran out of energy over 9F. He lost by 2 1/2L and he is now going 1/2F longer and his trainer is uncertain of his effectiveness at the distance. What Nonsense! Was given endurance training to further carry is brilliant speed? How did he perform in those endurance drills? Would the removal of the blinkers allow him to relax more and be stronger in the lane? Would a ride with velvet hands and a great record with need to lead types be a better fit?

Some of these old school trainers are set in their ways and a very resistant to change. Mr. Lukas never removed the blinkers from Strong Mandate despite his struggles to win as a 3YO. Why? When they were affixed as a 2YO he won two consecutive races and therefore it was deemed that they had a positive effect. Could he have needed the race he lost to bring him on and not the blinkers? Did Will Take Charge win two races in blinkers? Yes! Did his performances improve dramatically after they were remove? Undoubtedly!

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

JayJay — Mon, 12 May 2014 16:51:26 GMT

Ranagulzion : What was that for ? Did you even read my question ? I asked if you can please re-post where I was critical of you about Samraat ? You're not the only one that didn't think Samraat was going to win the Derby but he was my pick and I stuck with him. I thought he did well considering he's most likely a miler. Unlike you though, I'm quite happy if he stays as a miler. He could end up not winning another race and I'll still like him, he's a gorgeous looking horse. Instead of picking who will not win the Derby, how about you pick who will ? You had Chrome in the past, not sure why you jumped off the wagon in the Kentucky Derby...baffles me.

Mary : I'm sorry but where did I disrespect other's opinions ? I've always respected other people's opinions on here and the other blog. Can you please point me to the comment where I did ? I'm not disrespecting Ranagulzion, I'm merely asking him to provide information on his predictions of Triple Crown, why he thought SI was the next triple crown winner, he couldn't provide any except he got excited. Same thing with the points system, he can't provide any valid arguments.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Ranagulzion — Mon, 12 May 2014 13:46:17 GMT

Mary:

Please pardon the feuding with my antagonising buddy Jay Jay, but I've got to keep him honest. Okay?

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Mary — Mon, 12 May 2014 00:19:53 GMT

JayJay, be respectful please of others opinions and Ranagulzion, you were right on relative to Union Rag's pedigree. Both of you have a wealth of knowledge and I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts, until the feuding begins.

The truth is, the pace in the 2012 Belmont was slow and the pace in the 2014 Kentucky Derby was slow. Regardless, the best horse won in each of these races.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Ranagulzion — Sun, 11 May 2014 23:11:22 GMT

Jay Jay: You are becoming notorious for your selective memory concerning our discussions. I need to remind you that the archives continue to yield damning evidence againt your lame attemps at malignment of my views. Read below an excerp of a response to your criticism of my pedigree analysis of your Derby tout, Samraat in Steve's Derby Dozen of March 3, 2014.

14 Mar 2014 2:50 PM: This year I've touted your favourite colt, Samraat in both his victories over Uncle Sigh. He's a quality miler in the making and I believe that he could fare better being pointed to the Preakness but I don't see him finishing in the frame in the Kentucky Derby because of the very high probability of stamina limitations according to my reading of his pedigree. You are entitled to your views but from the evidence so far, highlighted by your unrepentant classification of Belmont Stakes winner, Union Rags, as a miler I think that you have a lot to learn about pedigree analysis.

I try to keep your memory fresh with references to your old nemesis, Union Rags (LOL). I don't need him, you do my friend. Peace.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

JayJay — Sun, 11 May 2014 04:54:56 GMT

Jersey Girl : Yes, totally agree. I didn't mean anything by my post just highlighting the fact that Steve's blogs are the best when it comes to telling the stories of the horses, the connections and the races. Case in point, the bit about Dale Romans becoming a fan, it's cool to read another trainer expressing his honest opinion about Chrome which is exactly how I felt except my reasoning was that Chrome will get shuffled around with all the speed from inside and outside which never materialized but now, I'm a fan. It would be nice to see him win the next two legs but I know the Belmont will probably stretching him. Will I bet against him, nope :)

Ranagulzion : It's sad, actually pathetic that it's now 2014 and all you have to hang on is Union Rags...I'm of the opinion that Belmont was the worst field in its history. Can you please re-post where I was critical of you about Samraat ? I didn't realize I gave you a compliment at all (backhanded or not) about your pedigree analysis skills, that would be odd because I never thought you had that skill. I'm serious though, find something else that might help get whatever credibility you had before. Did you have Chrome in the Derby ? If I recall correctly, you said he didn't tower over that field...you picked FOUR horses to beat him and my Samraat beat 2 of those 4.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Jersey Girl — Sat, 10 May 2014 21:59:21 GMT

Yes, Jay Jay,

It goes without saying, even though we're happy to say it often, that Steve Haskin's articles provide the very best in horse racing insight from a number of styles and levels of perspective.

I actually was referring to the wealth of topics we are fortunate enough to enjoy each Triple Crown season and beyond, the stories that extend from the winner's circle to a great number of horses, owners and jockeys. This year is no exception, and as we have already enjoyed the tales of the Derby, no doubt we have many heartwarming stories yet to come.

Countdown to Preakness. Good luck, everyone.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Ranagulzion — Sat, 10 May 2014 21:20:39 GMT

Jay Jay: I know you fairly well by now ...thank for your backhanded compliment (LOL) Regarding pedigree analysis, I know that Union Rags is forever fresh in your mind and regarding your Derby tout, Samraat, you were critical of me assessing him as short on stamina for the Derby distance ...he failed to hit the board ...thank you very much.

Re the Preakness, Social Inclusion is my firm selection to take the sheen off California Chrome, no matter how the race is run (speed a plenty). Enjoy my friend.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

JayJay — Sat, 10 May 2014 07:54:35 GMT

Jersey Girl : Yes, there are stories every year about the Derby winner, but I can't say I've read any of these good stories anywhere except here on Steve Haskin's blogs. Steve writes these stories not as a journalist but a true horseman and that's the big difference. Whether I win or lose during the day, I can rely on a good read on this blog.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

JayJay — Sat, 10 May 2014 05:51:56 GMT

Ranagulzion : Thank you, it's about time. As for the Points System being the best, I never said that. Unlike you, I don't care for being recognized as a knowledgeable contributor, I'm not desperate like you. Once again, you didn't pay attention, read my previous post. The points system has nothing to do with the Preakness or any races other than the Kentucky Derby. The point system has proved to be a good system when it comes to getting the right horses in the KENTUCKY DERBY. Find something else to prove you have knowledge of this game....so far, pedigree analysis, triple crown prediction and points system has proven too much for you.

Are you predicting a win by Social Inclusion in the Preakness ? Is he a sure win ?

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Ranagulzion — Fri, 09 May 2014 23:00:31 GMT

Jay Jay:

I will oblige you by not posting anymore criticisms of the points system for now BUT if Social Inclusion romps the Preakness and Belmont Stakes, I promise that I'm gonna be breathing FIRE. You obviously think that its the best system ...good for you, my friend. Peace.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

El Kabong — Fri, 09 May 2014 20:34:09 GMT

LInda In Texas,

Thank you, that helps. I'm not changing a thing about her diet (Acana plus some cooked chicken) as she is extremely healthy otherwise. Doc immediately put her on Lasix and the cough/hack has stopped completely. Not one since she began taking the med. EKG is scheduled for May 29th so hopefully the news about her hacking will be a good omen. I'll get to work on the extra hugs if that is possible. She really is irresistible.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

caloy2pappi — Fri, 09 May 2014 20:24:20 GMT

Steve, your articles is very useful to all of thoroughbred horse racing fans. Your giving us always the latest news about what's really happening to a horse ( pedigree, breeder, owner, etc.)... in short you're the kind of person that this industry need, a media that share and promote only truth and nothing but the truth.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Matt Helm — Fri, 09 May 2014 19:39:13 GMT

Steve,Do you have any info about the Hollendorfer trainee Tonito M.He makes his mainland debut Sat in the Laz Barrera at SA.Is he the real deal?Thanks.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Peggy in California — Fri, 09 May 2014 17:59:42 GMT

Thank you, Steve for your call to stop posting negative comments directed at one of our community, Coldfacts.

I agree but wanted to post a positive comment meant for Coldfacts, and hope that it's OK with you.

Coldfacts, I have been a long time reader of Steve Haskin's blogs and his books starting with when I discovered racing due to Rachel Alexandra. Through the blogs I became acquainted with a community of people who, like me, love horses and express their feelings with enthusiasm. We sometimes disagree, but if that is done in a manner which accepts that the other person has a right to his/her opinion, we can still stay friends. So, I always look forward to seeing comments from those people that I have come to respect. Dr Drunkinbum, who often makes me laugh is an example. He stated on another blog that he is not on the California Chrome bandwagon (yet). Needler in Virginia who signs off, "Safe trips to all." When she disagrees with someone it becomes, ". . . to almost all". Slew, who obviously has a love for her namesake and contributed some very heartwarming comments on Steve's blog about Seattle Slew. I always remember the fact that Mike Relva loves Cigar and visits him on his (Cigar's) birthday. I am also happy to see new contributors like Monica V, whose comments I am coming to appreciate. Even though we have(mostly)not met in person the bonds between people on this group are strong because we share a camaraderie that would be hard to find in the outside world.

I had stopped reading about racing because my sister died three years ago, only returning to read Steve's blog when I'll Have Another came along. I didn't start reading the comments until this Derby season when California Chrome made me want to read everything I could find about this story and this horse.

So, because I care about you and hope that I will someday think of you fondly, like the others whom I mentioned I have one request of you, Coldfacts. There were many people who waited for Steve's descriptions of California Chrome's win because the race isn't over until we hear it from his lips. Please don't rain on the parade of all of the people who read this blog by posting negative comments. It will be a long time until this story is over and we want it to be (as Needler says), a ". . .safe trip for all." --Peggy

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Linda in Texas — Fri, 09 May 2014 17:24:02 GMT

El Kabong - Suzy is going to be fine. Heart meds for dogs are amazing, plentiful and helpful. Just took my 13 1/2 year old Yorkie/Poodle curly furred Cissy to my vet. No coughing, just seemed to notice her breathing fast.

Has a little problem with her heart so she is on Digoxin, Lasix and a liquid i give her twice a day. She has responded and is 95 per cent better. Years past i have had 2 other dogs with murmurs like your Suzy. They lived several more years with meds. I have 7 dogs, 5 in the 12 to 14 year old range, 2 in the 5 to 10 range. Her 2 brothers are fine. So stay positive and as the vet told me when i asked if i should change her light and healthy diet, don't change what you feed her, changes throw their systems off! A few extra hugs for her won't hurt, that is your medicine.

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Jersey Girl — Fri, 09 May 2014 14:52:50 GMT

It's so true that "every Derby winner has an associated story", as Coldfacts mentioned in his post. Let's add the word "thankfully" to that. The Derby's story cup overflows every year, drawing people to the race and the sport in ways that stats alone simply can't. So this year for months we enjoyed California Chrome and Art Sherman, first framed in their possibilities, and now in their glory. Wildcat Red, Wicked Strong, and Uncle Sigh also tugged at the heart strings, just to name a few.

The stories will continue, through the Preakness and the Belmont and into the summer...along with the intrigue. Initially many thought that CC would not excel outside of California. Now that he's put the Derby field away, beating thoroughbreds from points North, South, East and West, we'll see what the future holds as he continues to take new competitors on, on different tracks, with litte rest and bigger challenges each step of the way. I imagine if he could talk he'd say, "Bring 'em on."

I wouldn't draw any comparisons between the 2013 and 2014 Derby. Yes, Orb and California Chrome both had their 5th consecutive win recorded with their Derby victories. But last year, Palace Malice dictated the unfolding of the Derby, and congrats to Orb on the win. This year CC and Victor dictated the race from the break, and crossed the finish line with ease.

Let's see how the rest of this story develops. A new star emerging could only add to the fun, but in the meanwhile, on with the celebration!

re: Haskin's Derby Recap: California Dreamin'

Steve Haskin — Fri, 09 May 2014 14:49:10 GMT

To the few of you to whom this applies, all this banter back and forth between Coldfacts and certain posters is getting tiresome. Let's just enjoy the Triple Crown. I really don't have the time to read every single post in its entirety to make sure there are no hostilities. Several months ago, Coldfacts basically said he was leaving this blog and sent a rather long-winded comment, in which he called me ruthless, a trait I wasn't aware of. When he started posting again, I was fine with it, because I'm not going to let a derogatory comment prevent a regular poster from contributing if he or she has something to contribute. I would hope he regrets having made such a ridiculous and insulting comment. So, I ask everyone who continuously goes toe to toe with him not to resort to personal attacks, no matter what you think of his comments. Thats not to say you can't disagree with him. Just do it in a civil manner. In NFL terms, let's refrain from having a disruptive locker room. Thank you.