No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Hannah — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:36:32 GMT

There were many horses injured this year and that I have not heard of in ages. Friesan Fire, Midshipman (thanks to that article on Bloodhorse's home however), I Want Revenge, Quality Road (who I now know of), and Stardom Bound. I REALLY want to know about I Want Revenge, in my own opinion he would have turned out he best 3-year-old colt. Is he retired now?

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Cris — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:46:48 GMT

MTB would have beat RA in the Preakness with a decent ride. I like Mike Smith, but he does not ride this horse well at all.

I was there and the filly was very tired. I was at the WV Derby and with a ride he would have won that also.

He is a very under rated horse, now that he has had surgery, if he can get a decent ride anything is possible.

RA should have stayed in the Travers. She does not want to hook

QR after he is fully fit. He is the best speed horse I have seen in decades. He is a monster. She will not get a weight break or find him in a weaker position than she will in the Travers. Sooner or later she will need to beat him and she would have been able to stay with him now, but if he stays sound the race to watch will be a healthy MTB and QR. Pace makes race and there will be plenty of that. It will kind of be like watching Rocky movies with the little guy up against the big guy.

Where ever the race will be I will pay to watch it.

Since there are owners who do not wish to race on anything but dirt or turf it would be a perfect time for Laurel to bring back the DC International as a alternate Breeders Cup Race. Instead of two days at one track why not two tracks in one day? One track with a dirt surface and one without.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Matthew W — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:15:17 GMT

Running in The Woodward is a huge act of concilliation, Jess is showing he WANTED to go in Breeders Cup---He disagrees with Cali and is basically saying "screw them".....At SOME point, I believe, The Moss's have to follow suit! GO OUT THERE AND DO YOUR DUTY! Let that big mare dirt/ and let them get it on....SCREW Cali/ SCREW the Breeders Cup---FOR RACING DO THIS!!!...Those fillies, facing off maybe twice back there...would be as big as the Breeders Cup--BIGGER, for Racing! Cali went their OWN way---Please, Jerry and Ann, go out there!

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Matthew W — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:08:01 GMT

You're right Steve, 1 1/8 IS the classic distance for fillies---They're going two-turns on the greatest dirt track on the planet...v older males....If I own Zenyatta I'm there! Racing deserves this--if you're gonna lose, lose to Rachel Freaking Alexandra---still...two turns...males probably have faster pace to run at....Rachel would have her hands full of that and how bout two fillies running one/two in the Woodward....thing is, 'have a lot better chance than a one turn Beldame---I'm there, Steve--FOR RACING......Dirt her once more, Dirt her v Rachel, I don't care about streaks give that big mare a chance to dirt/a chance to face off with Rachel---THEY'RE going in the freaking Woodward! Go out there and meet her---if I own Big Z I fear no one/ do right by racing---cuz this is big!

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

HorseFirst — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:55:40 GMT

When people say again and again how great RA is, so much better than the boys, etc., then the issue of running over 1-1/8 is relevant.

I said she is a very, VERY nice filly- but for me, before she's crowned the best three year old of this year or HOY, she needs to prove she can run beyond 1-1/8 and run it against the best of the boys.

Best three year old filly, fine.

Best mare overall, fine.

But not HOY, not with the distance limitations that currently seems to determine in what RA will run.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

tvnewsbadge — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:12:35 GMT

Pegs said "This is must my opinion but I really thought that QR would have been the next TC winner. But luck would not be on his side."

Actually, "luck" had nothing to do with it. It was Borel bailing on the Mine That Bird. Even Jess Jackson said said that had Borel been on Mine That Bird, it would have been nose to nose at the wire.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Pegs — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:58:41 GMT

This is must my opinion but I really thought that QR would have been the next TC winner. But luck would not be on his side. I love MTB just a classy horse and his connections. Rachel Alexandra is the best 3 yr old filly and I really thought if MTB had a better ride he would have beat RA in the Preakness. I know her owners want to secure her Horse of the Year without going to the Breeders Cup. I wouldn't pit her against this group in the Travers nor the Woodward. Not until she is a 4 yr old would I face this type of horses. She is still a filly and she is still 3 yrs old. Regardless of her ability she has yet to met eye to eye with a old tuff stakes winner or a really good group of 3yr old colts. I would love to see her against Zanyetta. Now that would be a race of all races.

Don't you agree????

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Draynay — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:56:33 GMT

TJLuvs... she will be facing older G1 and G2 winning males in a race no 3 year old filly has ever won and no 3 year old male has won in 15 years!

I don't know what you want from her any horse in the world can show up and take her on but the facts are most trainers will not send their horse to get whipped by a horse that right now cannot be beaten. She is winning by an average length this year of 9 lengths per race. No filly has ever dominated racing like this in the last 100 years. Sit back and enjoy you may never see it again.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Mary — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:40:20 GMT

Steve Haskin said: "I don't understand this knock on a filly for not running 1 1/4 miles."

I don't consider Rachel's gender, she's just a great racehorse. And since the all-time greats won at 10 panels and longer, IMO she needs to step up in distance before she can take her place among them. And I think she'll get 10 furlongs which should silence many of her critics.

Also, I'd like to see Rachel run at 10 panels (and better) because I'm a big fan of the longer distances so I like to see the very best horses try them. The longer races are more exciting to me because anything can happen in that last furlong. Of course, that's true of all races but it's more pronounced at the longer distances.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

da3hoss — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:17:51 GMT

Steve. you bring up a great point...there's not many (1) races at 1 1/4 for 3 year-old fillies....and really not many 3 year-old fillies have ever beaten the boys at 1 1/4...so I went looking to see what fillies i could find, who, at age 3, beat colts, 3 year olds and also, 3 and up.

I may not have found them all, but in some quick checking (i do have a life somewhere, lol), the only fillies in the "Top 100 or so" who won as Three-year olds against the boys at 1 1/4 miles in Graded Stakes have been Genuine Risk, Winning Colors, Rags To Riches (1 1/2) and all against 3 year-old colts).

Dahlia beat older males at 3 but that was in Europe.

That left just the wonderful Busher, at 3 she beat the boys ages 3 & up twice at 1 1/4: Washington Park HDCP, and on the grass (Arlington).

So, Busher was the only 3 year-old filly I could find who beat older males at 1 1/4 in top races...she beat them in the Hollywood at 1 1/8, too...RA, as a 3 year-old, IF she beats older males in a Grade 1 at 1 1/8 and having already beaten colts at 1 3/16 and 1 1/8 and destroying her peer group puts her right up there in Busher's league..and we're alive to see it!

If anyone finds another 3 year-old filly who beat the boys 3 and up at 1 1/4, please let me know. I never realised what an accomplishment that was.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Cowboy Bob — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:57:31 GMT

ABBY KNOWLES: STARDOM BOUND HAS BREEZED TWICE AT AQEDUCT. 3/8 YESTERDAY IN 37 AND CHANGE. R.DUTROW,HORSE TRAINER,SAYS HE IS GOING TO RUN HER IN THE LADIES CLASSIC WITHOUT A PREP RACE. WITH ALL THE IEAH BAGGAGE SHE WILL HAVE TO CARRY,STARDOM BOUND WILL HAVE TO SHOW WHY SHE IS A CHAMPION. A TRAINER FRIEND OF MINE ALSO BASED AT AQUEDUCT MENTIONED HE DIDN'T THINK SHE LOOKED VERY GOOD. STEVE, MAYBE YOU COULD DO SOME INVESTIGATIVE WORK AND CHECK OUT HER STATUS. CAMO PAINT,SOME DARK CLOTHES AND A STOCKING HAT SHOULD WORK. IF YOUR ARE STILL A SARATOGA JUST SWING BY ON THE WAY HOME.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Ragsy — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:48:00 GMT

Abbie Knowles so very right you are..folks need to be happy with the great horses we have...less pernicious...

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Kat — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:46:11 GMT

Here's hoping RA continues to be lucky with her post positions (particularly against the boys).

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Vic S — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:10:28 GMT

Mary in VT why such the hard words against Steve in how he said Quality Road is just as fast and brilliant as Rachel is? Steve is right QR is just as fast and brilliant as Rachel if not faster and more brilliant, how many times can you name off the top of your head where a horse has won 2 races at two different tracks at two incredibly different distances and both times come back with win and TRACK RECORD. That kind of a thing NEVER happens. One must remember he did these back to back and also had a 4 month layoff between them. Tell me now when this has happened, happened to a horse who has only started 5 times. Thats right. NEVER. Quality Road has only accomplished things that he only has accomplish because no one else is able to. Back to back track records at two diff tracks, distances, and with a huge layoff to top it off. IT NEVER HAPPENS. And when Steve says he may not be ready for the Travers he is right. QR may very well not have the stamina needed for the Travers due to his layoff and recent freak performance, but you can bet your bottom dollar he'll be right there the whole way. I have faith and I truly believe that if he is as good as he can be he will win. Also, Sea the Stars just set a new course record. If that isn't fast than I guess no horse that ran there before him ever was. Mastercraftsman is no nag, lets not forget he is the Champion 2 year old and hates to lose, I believe STS beat him a length in the Internaitional. So please Mary, lay off of Steve he is only pointing out the FACTS for you. STS won the Epsom Derby and 2000 Guinesas, those are PRESTIGE RACES. He has already beaten older horses. Anywho, I wouldn't be mad at all if QR was pulled from the Travers and put in the Woodward, it would make everyone happy. Best male vs. best female, with older males running just so it isn't a match race. The atmosphere at the place would be so intense the birds would stop flying and watch as the horses ran by. The next two weekends of racing will be amazing.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

TJLuvsTizs — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:36:07 GMT

I have to preface this by saying I LOVE Rachel, my comment is just to criticize Dray's comment of "I see many G1 and G2 winning males". I decided to do some homework.

Take out Bribon, Colonel John, Cowboy Cal, Munnings, Kensei, Hold Me Back, RA, Quality Road, Smooth Air (bruised foot) and Take the Points because they are all pointed to other races and this is what you have left (for '09 G1/G2 wins) in the field:

G1: Macho Again (Stephen Foster)

G2: Asiatic Boy (UAE Maktoum Challenge Spring) Jonesboro (Cornhusker H.), Macho Again (New Orleans H.)

DRAYNAY..... 3 horses with G1 or G2 wins this year out of 19 possible starters. It's a Bird got DQ for his Oaklawn H. win (drug test) so that doesn't count.

Her connections picked the best race for her to win against older males. She still has to run to win, but before you tell everyone you see many G1's and G2's please put it in perspective of the horses likely to face her. The connections are doing the industry a favor by letting the 3YO male division shake itself out with the Travers, but that race is coming up far more competitive than the Woodward. She still needs to run a big race to win, but it is against far less competition.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Steve Haskin — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:11:41 GMT

I dont understand this knock on a filly for not running 1 1/4 miles. There are three major stakes for fillies at 1 1/4 miles -- 2 for older fillies. The BC Distaff is 1 1/8 miles, so are Eclipse-making stakes Beldame and Spinster and Lady's Secret. Fillies rarely run 1 1/4 miles. Zenyatta has run 12 times and only three have even been as far as 1 1/8 miles. That is our classic filly distance. Rachel has already won at 1 3/16 miles over males on a track Borel said she didnt care for.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

TJLuvsTizs — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:37:04 GMT

Dray,

Honestly? Are you really that impressed with who may run in the Woodward outside of RA? Bullsbay's (who I do like) trainer had already stated he is ducking RA. The best horses on the list won't be running in the race (Cowboy Cal, Bribon, Colonel John, Kensei, Munnings, etc.). She could have a challenge if the following horses do run: Asiatic Boy, Cool Coal Man, Macho Again, Coal Play, and It's a Bird. Da Tara will be running to set the pace, but if only two of the above horses are in the race it will be anti-climatic. I want to see her challenged, running fast times is awe-inspiring, however winning by a neck is more exhilarating and exciting to watch.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Abbie Knowles — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:16:59 GMT

Don't believe that Steve Asmussen ever rode in races. That was his Brilliant brother CASH who did so in Europe with great success and he got very little praise and much totally unjustified criticism in the UK, but was greatly admired and liked in France where he was Champion Jockey 5 times! In spite of being tall for a jockey Cash was too disciplined to have weight problems!

Rachel is great but no horse is unbeatable!

Agree that Queen Zen is awesome! The DANCING QUEEN!

I love Mine that Bird - stop knocking him. As a gelding he could be delighting us for years to come instead of being rushed off to stud or the paddocks! Just hope they are not racing him too soon after his op! Summer Bird stays well. Quality Road may or may not but is potentially great and Charitable Man looks like he has a big one in him! The Travers will be tremendous!

The mature Bullsbay would be a worthy rival but will he run? Who will run in the Woodward? Is it a soft option except for the fact Rachel will have to take on mature horses?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If The Colonel runs then it will not be as he is a seriously good horse who loves Saratoga and will battle all the way to the line! A nemesis? We will see. Personally i would give Rachel a break and not race her till October/November but there you go!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Draynay — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:10:33 GMT

I have one thing to say about the Travers... Kensei will be a stallion Rachel will not. For those of you eager to see her go 1 1/4 you will have to wait until next year for that treat. I would think it would be enough that she is taking on the best older males in a race no filly has EVER won. And she is taking on any and all but take notice few will decide to take her on. It seems there will be those that no matter what she does will always want more. Matthew, my Grandfather took me to my first race in 1969 and I have seen many great horses but i can't remember any horse performing like that in the slop and running that fast. I am sure Steve may be able to come up with a horse from the past but a 109,134 in the mud and a 147 finish? She dominated a good field and made it look easy just missing the stakes record in the SLOP !

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Matthew W — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:24:49 GMT

Next year the BCup is back on dirt/back East! West Coast Horses will be shipping throughout the year---I'm looking for Rail Trip to be a real nice dirt guy! Hollywood played like dirt/had lots of dirt fill in it---That's a nice horse who wants to dirt---they'll find out about him next year at Oaklawn and Saratoga! And Rachel's gonna try older males! That's HUGE! And maybe (hopefully) Gio Ponti/Zenyatta/and the Eurofreak from England(??) forgot his name but the point is....Pinch me--there's greatness going on right now/all around in Racing! Please keep them all healthy and safe--Talk about Female Domination! Even the Derby was a black hole of injury and bad trips/tired horses---its all about the "Streak and the Streaker"---Big Z and Rachel!!!!...this is late-70's all over!!!....Forego and Ruffian on steroids!! Take this all in, as much as you can! Try to see Zen in person---transcends racing/once in a lifetime horse! They should parade her back East if they don't race her there cuz they all need to get a look see....And three year old fillies don't dominate elders---this is stuff you just aren't gonna see twice in a lifetime---Pinch me!

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

HorseFirst — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:02:57 GMT

RA stays true to form- 1-1/8 miles in the Woodward.

Too bad they won't try for the extra distance the Travers represents. Don't particularly care that she would be the first filly to win the Woodward if she does- the Woodward is her distance.

Now, if they would just decide Quality Road needs more time to get the distance and pull him from the Travers and put him in the Woodward. That could be an interesting race.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Matthew W — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:01:16 GMT

Dray I thought her bestest race was her Preakness run, a fast six fur from the far outside post, then opening up when it counted---her Mother Goose was a joke, and even her Haskell was over early, when they tried to do it Rachel's way with Summer Bird--I said at the 7/8 pole it was "bye bye birdie"!! Would've loved to play Summer Bird over Rachel in the Travers (as I like to lose my $$/have beet against Zenyatta five times as well) But I think this time they'll run his own race and drop off the pace a bit more with him....Still, you can't fault them for going up against elder males in Sept....No real doubt she's HOY--A Big win over Gio Ponti would be huge for Big Z/and the Woodward is no sure thing, either...is Col John going? Is Quality Road going to springboard to 1 1/4 in the Travers?...Don't think so....at any rate, bestest 3yo filly season---but why not that proverbial cherry on top, I dunno, the Classic??!! I'm sure Rachel beats Big Z at 1/8 vs three or four.....I'm NOT CERTAIN she beats her in a twelve horse field at 1 1/4, on ANY surface....Would love ta see her try!!!

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

Wiseguy — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:50:38 GMT

What happens when RA loses the Woodward to a "weak" older horse? Then all bets are off for HOTY. Is she retired with that mystery injury that probably caused her to not run her best in the Woodward? Does JJ sit her out and hope that what she has already acccomplished, which has been extraordinary, is enough for HOTY? Do they run her in the BCC? Kitty litter be damned.

Just asking, they do run the races for a reason don't they?

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

RHoward — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:47:19 GMT

I see Mr. Jackson dodging Zenyatta once again, quite sport of him. I would like to see Colonel John shipped out to Saratoga again, and show them what quality California horses can do on the road ie. Travers last year. Colonel John had an excellent comeback at Del Mar. Eoin Harty had him in excellent shape and made a grand appearance.

re: No Banjo on Rachel's Knee

aleesa4 — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:46:18 GMT

I'll say it again, every spring the elite three olds impress in 9 furlong preps and flatten out in the classics. Then they are "turned out" and reappear later in the year for more 9 furlong "tests". 9 furlongs is a nice distance for the Ladies Classic--Derby prep winners should be allowed to run in it. If not, they can chase RA, who will be restricted to 9 furlongs for the rest of her career.