They Once Ruled the Sport

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Lloyd Smith — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 14:03:58 GMT

It may be impolite to ask, but does Mr. Turner have an email address where he can be contacted?

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Maridelfy — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:07:57 GMT

This article is baut only sport commentary,ofcourse always wants to win.

Congratulation for all trainers.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

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re: They Once Ruled the Sport

OLD TIMER — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:14:45 GMT

Steve,

Thanks for another great article and for giving these great trainers their due.

I would submit to you that racing is no different than the rest of our culture and corporate America in that everything today is the drive for instant results and short term performance. There does not appear to be any respect for past accomplishments nor in building for the long term. It is all about "what have you done for me lately?"

While many would not want to admit it, ageism does exist in our society and some of the comments here reflect the truth of that. The positive part is that there do exist many capable veterans in many fields who love what they do and do it well at ages when the rest of us are sitting on our laurels. While they may be older and on the downhill side of a career, their experience is worth a lot and the transfer of that knowledge base to the novices in their respective fields is what makes any enterprise, sport or industry successful in the long term. God bless them all.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Nancyb — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:38:44 GMT

What a great eye-opener this article is. Thanks again Steve.

My favorite "soap box" subject is nicely covered by the comments. Let's get back to raising race horses - not stud muffins.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Debbie O'Connor — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:28:42 GMT

Nice article, but I think all sports are pretty mercenary in the way they treat "yesterday's heros". I'm sure every sport can give you the same type of examples. If you are not fashionable or the "flavor of the month", you're forgotten.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Equusmedia — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 21:16:32 GMT

This article is so on target. Thank for stating it so well.

I personally have felt the sentiments expressed in your article so strongly, that I did what I could about them some time ago. I am a website developer, so I created websites as gifts for Allen Jerkens and Billy Turner. www.AllenJerkens.com and www.BillyTurnerRacing.com. I doubt Allen has ever seen his, but Billy is excited to have a website.

I can say that when we attended tradeshows and had Allen's site running, people stopped in the aisle to listen to the Prove Out-Secretariat race call. They told us they got goose bumps. I also just checked You Tube and 45,749 people have viewed the Seattle Slew KY Derby video. The fans are there. As you say, it is the owners who are missing the boat.

On a related personal note, we have a modestly bred 4th generation homebred with Allen Jerkens. She is in a small a partnership of friends. Allen may not want to schmooze, his barn may not be resplendant with flowers, and you may learn the occasional new and colorful word, but in my mind the ultimate proof is in the pudding. I credit Allen with maximizing our filly's abilities, keeping her sound, and giving us a terrific run for our money.

Our filly is in Aiken for the winter (we believe in other old fashioned ideas, such as time at the farm, even for sound horses), but she will return to Allen in the spring as a 5 year old and we are looking forward to another wonderful year of racing.

If a "big" horse happens along, every trainer you mention will know exactly what to do with it. The statistics of this happening are not favorable however, and you do not need the "big" horse to have a wonderful time racing. All the trainers mentioned in your article are masters at developing any horse you give them to its fullest potential. Over the long haul that would seem most important.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

KYFan — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 02:46:59 GMT

Stephi, that was a different era, a different type of clientele and a whole different set of economics.

Back in the day, racing was handed down through the generations and trainers trained for them as private trainers for most of their lives or at least the trainer pool and owner pool was so limited that they put up with a lot different things than they will now.

Owners now are astute businessmen/women who are self made millionares, made their fortunes through business sense, savvy and knowing what was going on in their business.

Someone who isn't media friendly, only hurts the game. We don't have the luxury of being elitist and so bound by tradition that we shoot ourselves in the foot. Good thing you said 'used to' because frankly, that's part of what is making life so difficult for these old timers.

sarc, those trainers you mention could have been discarded as well and after Wayne had Bill and Bob pass, he was struggling. As I'm sure you know, if you really are in the game, it costs as much or more for those guys to keep their horses up and running as it does anyone and as you alluded to, they don't make a lot of money off of each horse after expenses, none of us do. Have to say though it helps when you won the biggest of the big races. I remember an article not long ago that chronicled how people like Wayne would still be just as upbeat and positive, looking for the next great horse even if they had 3 broken down lowest level claimers in their barn. I'm not sure but maybe that level of confidence and positivity have helped those that have stayed prominent, or come back somewhat.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Soldier Course — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:20:29 GMT

Such very sad news about the harness track barn fire in Ohio. This should have been a lead article throughout the day at bloodhorse.com, given the fact that 43 horses and two people lost their lives in this fire. I had to hunt for the article.

Has a charitable donation account been established in connection with this tragedy?

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

sarcsm1 — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 00:01:37 GMT

There is one thing I think most people don't realize and that horse training doesn't pay that well unless you get "lucky" with a big horse. Trainers are poorly paid have no medical, no workmans comp for themselves, no retirement, and one owner that doesn't pay his bills eats up what he made on the others.

Billy Turner lost Slew because he didn't want to run him on the west coast, so the owner moved him. He like Leroy, can't afford NOT to train horses as it is the only way they know how to make a living. I'll bet few people know that one of Jolleys big owners stiffed him for six figures plus, putting him back to square one with no owners.

In the winter he lives in a studio trainers room at Plam Meadows, not in a condo or fancy house. The fact is, trainers do the numbers game because it helps pay the bills and gives them a better chance at a good horse. Being in the game since the 70's I know those guys, and they are great horsemen,to be around, but they do get no respect. I recently moved my stable out west and Leroy J had 4 cheap horses that year. I mentioned it to someone and they asked, who's Leroy Jolley?

This sport is sad in the way it discards its once greats. I do not include Lukas in the group, or the younger guys training now Shug and Mott are a later generation, but it could happen to them too.

Thank you for remembering them

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Stephi S. — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:49:58 GMT

KYFan,

You said.."You can't be a cantankerous old grouch and attract owners who spend a lot of money"

Well, I guess you have never heard of "Sunny Jim" Fitzsimmons. He was a cantankerous old grouch who trained for 70 years. He trained two Triple Crown winners, Gallant Fox and Omaha, as well as Bold Ruler, Nashua and Granville. I can assure you he would not have tolerated the current media demands on the horses and trainers. I don't agree with his training methods, he almost ruined one of the great horses, Seabiscuit, just because he didn't like his sire and didn't take the time to figure out the horse's needs. But I do agree that owners and the media have no business in the shedrow.

I remember when the owners came to visit when I was working on a training center in VA, the trainer hated it. One set of owners used to show up in their Rolls, she was in fur from head to foot, with big red nails and a ton of perfume. Their horses would run to the back of the stall and look very worried whenever she came to the door of the stall. And she would leave stuff for them to eat, all of which was totally unsuitable for a horse in training, or any horse. She would also leave pom-poms for their manes when they raced. She kept having to bring them because the ones she had left last time unaccountably got lost before the horse ran. (heh,heh,heh) I was the person in the barn who wrote up and sent out the monthly reports to the owners on each and every horse, and they could call the trainer with any questions or concerns. But we did prefer that they NOT show up during training hours. In my book, owners should send the checks on time, show up in the winner's circle when their horse gets there, and leave the training of the horse to the trainer. We did have a yearly "Owners Day" when the owners were invited to watch training and have a nice lunch in the track kitchen. Other than that, we preferred the owners stay out of the shedrow. And for the most part, they did.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Mike Relva — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:09:16 GMT

HELLO STEVE

I totally agree with you. It's a shame that these great trainers have been almost ignored. BTW I've always been a fan and have great respect for Mr. Van Berg.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

newsline2 — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:20:46 GMT

Wouldn't it be exciting for the sport to have each of these HOF trainers be given a promising youngster--one they are involved in selecting--and bring them along to compete. Perhaps a trainer/owner or breeder paired up with the goal of these young athletes competing in a kind of futurity event. Sort of a entire program... or a two select races just for them. We know every race is a battle for the win, but this would be a little different with maybe even stories written about the progress. Gosh, it wouldn't really be so different than the following of all the Barbaro sibs except these would all be the same age and targeting the same goal in races. Seems like there is a story and a challenge in it that would be good for the sport. Maybe someone has a better idea for how it might work.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Slew — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 15:26:52 GMT

Bradgm...I didn't say the trainers in the media spotlight don't do their own work. I said it was impossible for one trainer to give the needed time to each of 150-200

horses. Assistants are valuable,

and the trainers are good. However, the mega trainers also run horses in claimers and allowance races...but they are not

there at the track with them. They're too busy with RA, Lucking at Lucky,etc. Consider this...few

horses today are actually owned by

one person. They are syndicated...

like Big Brown and I Want Revenge.

(speaking of toss aways..where is

I Want revenge during all these legal battles???). And if only ONE

of the older trainers has a Triple Crown...that's more than we've seen in the past 31 years. We have

however, seen many break downs. And if you think any owners and trainers don't "love" their runners...maybe you should watch the Mosses and Shirrefs reactions

after the BC Classic again....or

Larry Jones' when Eight Belles went down. In this day and age,

age itself is a condemnation and skill and wisdom are toss-outs.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Oso7 — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 14:28:36 GMT

What a beautiful article recognizing the great trainers now reduced to working in the shadows. I think many owners are so fixated on making money quickly and whisking their horses off to the breeding shed that they don't want to wait for the patient handling that is the hallmark of these great trainers.

Personally, I'm glad Mr. Haskins didn't include Lucas. He marked the advent of the churn and burn trainers that came on the scene in the '80's. Lukas may have mellowed since but he doesn't deserve the same esteem as those mentioned in the article.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

seattleslewfan77 — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:56:44 GMT

As usual, you get to the "heart" of racing, Steve. My dream, should I win the lottery is to purchase a yearling and ultimately give that horse to Billy Turner to train.

The big business barns are just that, big business. No disrespect to Todd Pletcher, but he can't have "hands on" all of his horses. Why an owner would not thier trainer to have personal interaction for their investment, I don't know.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

SteveStan — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 06:02:45 GMT

Fire Slam a small little matter of 13 Triple Crown races, 18 or is it 19 Breeders Cup races, 235 million + in purses won (the majority of which, if taken as the purses they pay out now would put him way over 300 million), a record in G1 and graded stakes races won that took YEARS for someone to break?

He has a program plotted out and if his owners are loyal (and they are) they like the way he does things. He hasn't won as much in the last number of years, but he's always dangerous and you never know when he'll jump up and bite you.

When his stable was down a couple years ago, people were writing the same stories about him. About how he hasn't changed the way he trains his horses etc. The guys Steve is speaking about haven't had the wins in those races that the owners love or would love to win.

I've read your stuff in past, first you question Hal, you've commented negatively on Wayne and Todd as well as other trainers before. Lets just take this story at face value and hope that the Jerkens', Turners', Jolleys, Van Bergs (love that crusty old guy) can get some of the horses they deserve as well.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Bradgm — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 05:20:08 GMT

As usual this turns into the same ol same ol. That's why a lot of us have stopped posting.

YOU KNOW for a fact Slew that those trainers don't do their own work? I know a lot of the greatest in the game like John Nerud who would tell you that the first 'mega trainer' Wayne Lukas, worked like a dog. I know some of the current guys with big barns who have hours and schedules that would kill most people.

Where the heck do you think the assistants gain their knowledge? From instruction and guidance and an occasional kick in the butt from their bosses.

Any wonder some of the best trainers of this day and age came up under some of the very trainers that you are apparently speaking about?

As far as the trainers Steve mentioned? Only Billy Turner has won a TC. I know as well that some, not all, but some of the mega trainers know every single horse in their barns. Their organizational skills, knowledge and attention to detail is amazing.

Stan, a trainer gets into the HOF on merit of what his horses accomplished over the years. Some of these mega stables have more breakdowns because of the law of averages. Your judgement of what makes a good trainer is not one that many owners would go by. There are a lot of trainers who have had major success in the biggest races in the game. Would you say they don't deserve to be in the HOF because they had 150-250 horses and won more of the biggest races than anyone has ever done, set stakes winning records but had more breakdowns than the guys with 10 horses????

Someone who has super healthy horses has 5 in their barn on average but has never won a race more than a claimer at a second tier race track should be in the Hall of Fame, as long as they have never had a breakdown? Get real.

Racing is a tough business, horses are fragile animals. Most of these trainers love their horses, but they're not 'IN LOVE' with them. When you have been doing it as long as most of them have, you'll have a nervous breakdown if you do so.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

eeebayou — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 05:01:22 GMT

Good example today at Holly Park... a mare that was previously trained by Ron Mc for one of his long-time client won the Bayakoa (this must really hurt!!) for a different trainer. I can only imagine the sting felt tonight by the classy HOF inductee Ron Mc!!

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Slew — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:30:13 GMT

Joe Paterno at 83 is no mere figurehead. Last year his leg was broken when he was smashed into by a player during the game. He had to coach from the press box. This year, he's back on the side lines..and Penn State is going to another bowl. Just watch him move at the pep rallies. What has made him great is his diligence to his players as students...and his love of the game. Same with the older trainers who love racing and train their horses with diligence and patience. And I would still insist

that having the maximum number of horses in your stable simply doesn't afford the individual attention each horse requires. While the media darlings may indeed love the horses and the game...assistant trainers are doing the actual work. And if they

have truly deserved all the hype, why have we not had a Triple Crown winner in 31 years? The trainers

Steve Haskin noted have had Triple Crown winners! Those glorious super freaks were trained very well indeed.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Stan — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:47:58 GMT

Trainers should be judged by how they treat horses and how well they do on average.

The best trainers are not the schmoozers with fat barns and fat records who train factory-style but those who are good enough to offer each horse the best chance to stay sound and perform at their best.

Those who win big ones on a trail of destruction don't deserve to be admired and honored or being given more horses.

Water seeks its own level between owners and trainers. Drugs and high ITM % attract regardless of drugs and destruction. Wwners will fire trainers who want to do the right thing with their horses like turning them out before an injury becomes worse, even when it is clearly in the best interest of horses... And owners. Racing has attracted a fair amount of scum because the industry permits the racing of infirm horses on drugs and the press glorifies super-trainers by focussing on big figures and egocentric personalities instead of honorable conduct and quality.

Ban all the drugs one month before each race and on race day so horsemanship can make an honest come-back and so honest and skilled trainers regardless of age can have a fair chance. Why not limit a trainer to 60 or 70 horses, including 40 to 50 at the track under his personal care? Even out the playing field.

The skills and worth of a trainer, that is one who gives each horse the best chance to stay healthy and sound to succeed as a racer at whatever level, should be evaluated by balancing:

- his/her number of victories, stakes victories, money earned and the monetary value of horses under his/her care upon retirement

against

- the number of horses he has been given to train, their total monetary value when he/she first got them, the number of horses he/she injured and those that died, the vets bills and surgeries, entries, travel and other costs.

This should the only way to appraise the worth of a trainer.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

KYFan — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:41:11 GMT

Ann in Lexington, It was Jimmy Jerkens who had Quality Road, not Steve Jenkens (???).

Ace, I agree with some of what you say.

But, the rumors of unpaid bills are ALWAYS exaggerated. Like one where the guy who was supposedly OWED the bill said nobody even HAD that kind of money back when it reportedly happened.

People always tend to embellish for whatever their own issues are.

Usually though the one of the things that is the most difficult for trainers? Collecting from owners.

Most of these big time trainers? Their horses look great. They look like show horses, well fed, shiny coats, well muscled and unfortunately some of them run like show horses too. But in most cases whether they're the number one horse in the barn or the $5000 claimer they ALL have that same look about them.

Believe it or not in the old days there were some who didn't believe in juicing their horses. There still are those who try to abide by the guidelines (as confusing as those can get).

WOW, didn't know we're training regiments now.....

(just kidding, an attempt to lighten it up a bit).

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Connie in Wisconsin — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:21:05 GMT

Beautiful article. These are great horseman that should not be forgotten, but, in the end I'll bet they are still very happy people because they are doing what they love and I'll bet their horses are being doped up either. If I were a horse I would be lucky to be in their barn.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

needler in Virginia — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:36:44 GMT

It's shameful, and SHOULD be an embarrassment to racing, that "flavor of the month" applies not only to the horses, but also to the trainers who have given everything to them.......care, attention, interest, time, knowledge, wisdom.

I always knew that most people have the attention span of a very small gnat, but this state of affairs gives the gnat a good name. How CAN we ignore what these trainers have given the game?? Oh, wait; I know...they trained YESTERDAY.

Sad, sad, Steve. So sad but so true. Thanks for the reminder.

Cheers and safe trips.

re: They Once Ruled the Sport

Ace Hare — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:06:52 GMT

My comment was speculation about why they cannot currently get horses. I was expecting the Woody Stevens comeback, and am a little disappointed that Mack Miller wasn't mentioned for Sea Hero, as well. My point is that it would be hard for an owner to invest with these men at this point in time... As to why they have not been getting quality horses for the last 20-some-odd years, why not ask some of their former owners that are still in the game? Maybe some of their old owners passed away and, as old-school trainers couldn't pick up new-school owners? And as you said, Steve, it is the results that count. Maybe their performance suffered for certain owners that yanked their horses from them. I know that a lot of old-school trainers expect owners to give them good horses and send checks for the training bill, but want them to stay completely out of the way, no input or interaction. Some owners just want to go with the hot hand, or just like a certain trainer's philosophy.

And don't forget, there are crooks or cheats at all levels of this game (you didn't mention the stack of unpaid bills that one of the trainers in this article has been rumored to have left at racetracks across the country, including one specific incident that I personally know of). Hell, maybe they cheated too much or didn't cheat enough to suit their owners (don't give me the old oats, hay and water routine, that training regiment has never existed).

There are a lot of reasons that owners no longer employ certain trainers, surely, as long as you have been around this game, could have examined some of these reasons other than throwing a pity party for them (if this article wasn't meant to raise awareness through a prism of pity, what was the point?).