Decompression Chamber

re: Decompression Chamber

dr fager01 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:34:33 GMT

dr fager up to a mile and a 1/4 at equal weights the top 3 horses to have ever run what he did at a mile slowing down in the final 1/8, i swore he could have gone 1:30.1/5. in my opinion and only my own opinion, dr fager the greatest that ever lived. s bid great but not comparable to the doc.

re: Decompression Chamber

Big Doc Fan — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:06:19 GMT

OK, I'm late for the party. But I want to toss in my two cents.

I was privileged to watch both Buckpasser and Doc race three times each in person. And I saw Damascus once. They are clearly the three best I've ever seen, although Graustark was a monster, too. But he didn't pass the test of time.

My opinion of the single most impressive career performance among the trio was not one that most would pick. In fact, it is likely that NOBODY else would. It is Doc's victory in the 1967 Arlington Park Classic.

If I were as gifted a writer as Mr. Haskin, perhaps I could help you see how impressive Dr. Fager was on that day. Halfway through the card, Arlington was transformed into a disaster area, the likes of which I've never witnessed before or since.

The sky turned that funny green/yellow/black color it gets only before severe downpours. Then almost pitch black. And then it hit. The worst rainstorm I've ever seen. 40-50 MPH winds shredded rain drenched flags. There was a visible current of water running down the stretch. The winners circle was completely submerged.

When things were cleaned up enough to resume racing, the horses plodded through the quagmire. Just prior to Doc's race, good dirt sprinters who routinely ran 1:09 for six furlongs staggered home in 1:13 and change. The race following Doc, high class claimers who normally ran in the 1:35-1:36 range, struggled through a mile in 1:41 4/5.

My conservative estimate is that the track was 4 seconds off at 6 furlongs and 5 seconds off at a mile.

I went downstairs to get a good look at Dr. Fager in the post parade. He seemed a bit agitated and fought Baeza while shaking his head quite a bit. Then back upstairs to my usual perch to watch the race.

Doc broke a step slowly in the Classic. He had to play catch up in a battle for command through a quarter in :22.4. From then on, it was strictly no contest. A wicked :22.1 second quarter put the pretenders away. Baeza never moved a muscle at any point in the race but Doc still drew off to win by 10 in 1:36 flat.

I know, doesn't sound all THAT impressive. You had to be there. And I was.

re: Decompression Chamber

Steve Haskin — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 02:52:45 GMT

Karen, thank you very much for your kind and eloquent words. I appreciate it. And, yes, I have to agree with you about having the greatest job. I am very thankful in that regard, and have been extremely lucky.

re: Decompression Chamber

The Deacon — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 04:11:04 GMT

Very well put Jermon,Kelso was a great horse who beat some pretty darned good horses in his day. It really does not matter who was the greatest it all is about opinion anywat. The great ones could win anywhere, anytime, on a fast track, slow, or muddy track. We as fans have our favorites, it is what it is, It is the same in all sports, we like the teams we bonded with. Let's just say that in discussing the greatest horses of all time the same names always come up. Whether it is Man O' War, Secretariat, Citation, Dr. Fager, Seattle Slew, Count Fleet, Spectacular Bid, Buckpasser, Damascus, Kelso, Swaps, or Ruffian, all of these equine legends are very special to each and every one of us. They transcend time, they us back to another day when life seemed simpler and meant meant something. Steve, you are truly a great spokeman for the sport. Your insight and in-depth articles and comments are well appreciated. Please keep up the phenomenal work. It will not be too long in the future when there will be no one around who remembers................

re: Decompression Chamber

Karen2 — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:05:07 GMT

There is nothing more compelling than re-living something from someone with the life experiences and the love and passion for the horses and the sport along with the God given talent to put it in words and share it with the rest of the world. Life means nothing unless it is shared. Steve, it is you that lets me live this life through your eyes and your thoughts. No one paints the picture the way you do and now to bring it to us not only in the present, but in the past........ I always tell you you have the best job in the world, but you have it for a reason...Keep it coming... I am listening.

re: Decompression Chamber

Jermon — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:35:35 GMT

The Deacon- In naming one horse, you put a dagger in my heart. In

naming another, you twisted it. Enjoyed your postings, neverthess.

This many years later, I can laugh at it.

In asking if Affirmed beat Spectacular Bid, I am sure you knew the

answer, which is yes. In stating my comments when asked what I

thought of that upcoming race, I am not throwing bouquets at my-

self, merely making a point. My comments: Affirmed is a super

4 year old, Spectacular Bid is a super 3 year old. For him to beat

Affirmed, he would have to be a super-super 3 year. I don't think

he will achieve that status.

As a 3 year old, Kelso, in defeating older, true champions and

horses of the year, such as Sword Dancer and Bald Eagle,

certified himself as a super-star.

Before the Belmont, when the speed figures were being tossed

about, Nick Zito said the race wasn't going to be run on paper.

I feel the same way about attempting to compare horses of

different eras. There are too many variables. I recall very well

when Shoemaker proclaimed Spectacular Bid to be the best

he ever rode and had no quarrel with it. Despite the poor luck I

was subjected to when betting horses ridden by him, I considered

him to among the best, perhaps of all time. He was a horseman, as

opposed to a mere race rider. When Eddie Arcaro retired, The Shoe,

his partying buddy, inherited his top mounts. which included Kelso.

The only race Kelso won under Shoemaker was a meaningless

allowance race in a dismal performance. To qualify for the condi-

tions of that race, Kelso had to lose a string of races under Shoe-

maker. Kelso would not respond to Shoemaker, who was known

as a sit-still jock. Kelso needed a so called live jock, and Milo

Valenzuela was the answer. Based upon their relative performances

under Shoemaker, one can easily assume that Spectacular Bid was

the super-star and Kelso, the bum, was lucky to make it out of the

claiming ranks. Another horse that would not respond to Shoe was

little Tom Rolfe, the last 2yo I adopted, in 1964, to go on and

compete in the classics as an older horse.

The difference between racing today and what it was in its glory

years, and it is a huge difference for someone like me, is the lack

of quality racing for older horses. A three year old, in human terms,

is a teenager. Although it matures rapidly in its third year, it has not

fully matured until four, if then. I'm sure some of you are familiar with

little e (epsilon) and the natural growth curve. During the heyday of

racing, during the time of those fine gentlemen, and ladies, the so

called bluebloods of racing, the true sportsmen and improvers of

the breed, that elevated racing to the glorious stature it once enjoyed,

a horse had to prove itself as an older horse in the handicap ranks

before it could be deemed worthy of standing at stud under the owners

banner. The retirement and syndication of Secretariat at three signaled

the end of that era. The horse today is no longer being bred for sport,

it is being bred as a commodity. It should be traded on some commodity

exchange, along with oil, steel, lumber, and gold, etc.

A few years ago it was reported that the leading stallions, in term of

mares serviced, were Lion Heart and Chapel Royal, both freshman

studs. They had serviced well over 200 mares each in what would be

a half season for them. They were to be shipped to the southern

hemisphere to complete their second half.

Federico Tesio, whom many in the industry consider the most influential

breeder of all time, accomplished what he did by breeding no more than

12 mares a year. In his biography, it was stated he broke down many a

horse searching for its bottom. He would not breed a horse he had

broken down.

During racing's last glorious years, Wheatley's Bold Ruler was this

country's leading sire, having led the sire list 11 times in terms of money

won. There was a closed book on his services. This wasn't done from

a position of greed or a desire to hog the good stuff as many assumed.

It was done to control and improve breed, to prevent the destruction of

the breed.

When I began watching the races after a long hiatus, I was puzzled

by the absence of the prominent stables of the past, wondering

why the heirs had not continued with the tradition. The conclusion I

came to is that racing is no longer a sport, it is an industry. Why

bother?

To whomever mentioned having been told that Swaps was a good

horse, believe it! He was one of the greats. He had a beautiful head,

which identified him as the progeny of Hyperion, who was

his grandsire. Back then, the Hyperions were the most beautiful

horses on the track

Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio?

re: Decompression Chamber

The Deacon — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 07:25:59 GMT

Look it up Draynay, you seem to have all the answers.

re: Decompression Chamber

Racefan66 — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:23:04 GMT

Draynay: I wasn't going crazy, I just figured you liked a spirited debate, is all. And you went from a post that sounded completely absurd to posting comments where I may disagree with some of your conclusions, but I could at least see your point.

Maybe it makes me sound like a wuss... but I'm just happy to have gotten the opportunity to see them both (Damascus and Dr Fager) and enjoy what they both brought to racing.

re: Decompression Chamber

draynay — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 02:36:03 GMT

Deacon... you can't be serious ?

Top 2 year old ... The Bid

Dr. Fager... nope

Top 3 year old and Preakness and Kentucky Derby winner... The Bid

Dr. Fager ...nope and won no Triple Crown Races.

At 4 the both had outstanding years and it would be hard to choose one over the other considering their records at 4.

So the Bid was superior at 2 and 3 and won two Triple Crown races. Care to tell me what Dr. Fager did at 2 and 3.... I didn't think so.

re: Decompression Chamber

The Deacon — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 01:11:41 GMT

Look at the weight the great Doctor carried and the track and worls records. Check out his races, and I might add he won at a 1 1/4 as well with 135 lbs, and if my memory serves me Dr, Fager also carried 139 lbs and won. In his last race he carried 134 lbs and won on the turf. In that race he beat the best grass horse running, Fort Marcy.

As far as I am concerned this discussion is over, Keep smoking the good stuff though.............

re: Decompression Chamber

draynay — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:45:16 GMT

In all, Spectacular Bid won 13 Gr. I stakes at 10 different tracks, and won 10 other stakes. He was assigned 130 or more pounds on 5 occasions and won all five. He set or equaled eight Track and American records at seven different tracks, at distances from 5 1/2 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles. He twice set Track records while carrying 130 pounds. Eclipse winning 2 year old, Eclipse winning 3 year old, Eclipse winning older horse.... I rest my case.

re: Decompression Chamber

The Deacon — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:27:11 GMT

I wish to thank Draynay for the comedy relief he provides this discussion. I know Shoemaker said that Spectacular Bid was the best horse he ever road, but he rode Dr. Fager only once and that was as a 2 year old. The "Bid" is one of the 10 all time greats, but he is no Dr. Fager in my book. Didn't Affirmed beat Spectacular Bid?

C'mon

re: Decompression Chamber

draynay — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:04:06 GMT

Steve... I love horse racing...make no mistake BUT... we look back at the good old days and many remember them better than they really were. For example. Anyone who puts Dr Fager in front of (one of my all time favorites) Spectacular Bid needs their head examined. I never saw Dr Fager run live but I sure did see Spectacular Bid and even Mr. Shoemaker said the Bid was the best he ever rode and you know he rode Damascus. Bloodhorse placed Dr Fager ahead of him in the top 100 and it makes the whole list useless. The Bid never lost a race between 7 furlongs and a mile and a quarter... compare them at 2 and 3 and 4 ...the Bid at 4 raced 9 times and won them all so HOW on earth can anyone place Dr Fager ahead of the Bid ??? My comments to some may seem outlandish but really take a look. Most of what Dr Fager accomplished he did at 4 and won horse of the year only because the previous winner was hurt and retired along with others. And last but not least Native Dancer? A superstar at 3...undefeated at 4 and lost only once in his life because of a foul and he is behind a non winning Triple Crown horse... Steve ...be reasonable.

re: Decompression Chamber

Steve Haskin — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:26:50 GMT

Draynay, as absurb as I feel some of your comments regarding Dr. Fager are, I will say that Damascus was my favorite horse back then and still one of my all-time favorites. He's the horse who got me interested in horse racing, and I still get an incredible feeling when I see those Belair silks. And you're right about his accomplishments at 3. That was probably the most underrated year any horse has ever had and he was just as underrated as a racehorse. I wrote an editorial about that a few years ago. I respected Dr. Fager back then and feared him, and got to appreciate him more as the years went by. I even wrote his bio several years ago in the Legends series of books. With that said, I find it hard to believe a veteran racing fan like yourself could make such outlandish comments. I guess then you felt Buckpasser wasn't much of a horse, or Kelso or Tom Fool or Seabiscuit or Colin or Cigar.

re: Decompression Chamber

draynay — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:20:42 GMT

Racefan66 ...before you go nuts on me just look at what Damascus accomplished as a 3 year old. Will you EVER see a horse do that again?

Dr. Fager won a couple of races at 3 but he is known for what he did at 4 and when you consider the horse of the year who had already beaten him twice was injured and could not defend his crown well...for me it cheapens it. Meet the best of the best at 3 don't wait until 4 and see who is left still standing. When you look at what Damascus did at 3 you will marvel that he even ran at 4. Dr. Fager did not go through the grueling Triple Crown races and many as we know are not the same after them. Dr. Fager was a good horse but skipping the Triple Crown races really puts a damper on what he did at 4 with other horse injured and retired. Dr. Fager like it or not did not take on the best of the 3 year olds when it counted and did little until 4.

re: Decompression Chamber

Kate — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:13:34 GMT

WOW.

That was a movie script.

The insider bit about John Nehrud growing Dr. Fager's mane and forelock out to give hime a more wild appearance...wonderful reading.

Thanks!

re: Decompression Chamber

draynay — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:46:53 GMT

Jermon ??? Who did Native Dancer beat? Every horse he ever faced in every race he ever ran except 1 which he was fouled twice in. The problem I have with looking back is that we often see it with rose color glasses.

Dr. Fager had a front running style when a rabbit was used Damascus beat him easily. When he was allowed to run easily up front Dr. Fager would go wire to wire. He won the 1968 Suburban...good for him there was only 4 other horses in the race. Curlin could run 8 races this year against older horses and win them all by 10... would that make him one of the greats of all time? Dr. Fager was a very good and very fast horse just like Hard Spun (Check out his splits from the King Bishop). If Hard Spun ran at 4 he would be doing many of the things Dr. Fager did and without much fan fair. How excited would you be to see Hard Spun win a stakes race today against 4 other horses? Dr. Fager did not meet the best of the best at 3 in the Triple Crown races. He ran races against older horses in 1968 and did what Curlin could easily do today. Hard Spun is gone and Any Given Saturday and Street Sense...so what is left to take on Curlin. Damascus was truly a great horse and he accomplished things at 3 that we will never see again and the true measure of any horse is what he does at 3 ... proof of that is Secretariat which many regard the best ever... they do because he beat the best at 3 having never raced at 4. Damascus easily beat Dr. Fager when other early speed was in the race and when it wasn't he couldn't match the speed. Racing today Dr. Fager would see a rabbit every time and he would not see many 5 horse fields. Look at what Damascus did at 3... is it any wonder he was a little tired at 4?

re: Decompression Chamber

The Deacon — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 07:36:11 GMT

Steve, right on about the great Dr, Fager. Common sense tells us racing is so different today. Horses are more one dimensional, they don't carry the weight, they break down more easily and most of them seldom race past 3 years old. If a good horse runs more then 5 or 6 a year it is an nomily. Dr. Fager carried more weight then any horse I can remember, ran distances up to 1 1/4 miles and won easy, If Nerud ever let him run loose there would be world records out there still standing. Anyone remember his last race, the United Nations Handicap against Fort Marcy and Advocator. Fort Marcy, arguebly one of the best turf horse ever, and Advocator. who was a pretty good horse as well This historic race was on the turf and Dr. Fager had never run on the turf before that race. He was headed by Advocator, at the 1/8 pole, came back and took the lead and won the race. In 1968, the Doctor came out to Hollywood Park for the Californian and beat Gamely, Rising Market, and Barb's Delight. Kissin George, a brilliant sprinter, was the rabbit in that race. Horses today just do not compare to the horses yesterday, they just don't. If things were different then we would be discussing the horses of today as all time greats. Curlin has come the closest in many a year, and we will have to wait and see how the year plays out.

re: Decompression Chamber

Grandefan — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:17:44 GMT

Steve and Jermon - What I wouldn't give to be the fly on the wall if you two were to meet up for an hour or three! Thank you!

re: Decompression Chamber

Jermon — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 04:10:04 GMT

Draynay..some of your comments are

so ridiculous it looks like an

attempt to suck someone in to a

confrontation. If you had me in mind, I suggest you try someone

else.

I'll confine my comments to Native

Dancer. Everyone in the neighbor-hood was a big fan of both the

horse and owner, Alfred G. Vanderbilt, who was known as the

champion of the little guy, the $2

bettor. Because I was in the military I saw the Dancer race only once, which was in the Experimental Free Handicap at old

Jamaica. It was actually carded back then. Believe it or not, despite his record 21 of 22, he was

not considered a very good horse,

among horsemen. Anytime a horse is mentioned as a great horse, horsemen will always ask,

"Who did he beat." In their opinion

Native Dancer didn't beat much, that a

cheap horse like Jamie K ran him roughshod in both the Preakness and

the Belmont. I disagree, I didn't

Jamie K was that a cheap horse. At

times it is said a horse ran its

best race in a losing effort. That

is my opinion of the Dancer's derby. Given what happened in that

race and how the race was run, for

me, it had to be his best race.

Having developed ankle problems, the Dancer did not have much of a

career at 4. When he was retired,

there was talk that Al had retired

him because he didn't want a confrontation with the great Tom Fool in a proposed match race. The Dancer, having propagated his bad

ankles throughout the breed vindicated Al. Anyone who felt that

Al was chicken, was a fool.

re: Decompression Chamber

Racefan66 — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 03:30:21 GMT

Mr. Haskin:

Thanks so much for such a stirring reminder of great races and great horses. I had to go rewatch Dr. Fager and Damascus on youtube after reading this just to see them neck and neck again.

re: Decompression Chamber

Racefan66 — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 03:24:56 GMT

Seriously draynay, you're doubting that Dr. Fager was a great horse because he wasn't a Triple Crown Race winner?? The Triple Crown isn't the only test of a champion. And calling his battles with Damascus, In Reality, and Buckpasser while carrying high weights beating up on "a bunch of weaker older horses" is just plain disrespectful and ignorant.

By the way, you're wrong about him "waiting till the good ones retired". He did race at two and three... and won. He had an incredible year was when he was four, but that certainly wasn't the beginning of his career.

re: Decompression Chamber

draynay — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:51:46 GMT

What I do understand Steve is Dr. Fager did not win a single Triple Crown race. He did not even try. I guess things get easier when you are 4 and the best 3 year olds are retired. Its nice that he won some stakes races but frankly Curlin could enter 8 stakes races and beat up on a bunch of weaker older horses too. Its hard to consider a horse truly great who did not win a single Triple Crown race and chose to wait until 4 and run in easier races. Yes he set some records and that is very nice but winning some stakes races at 4 doesn't put him up there with a horse like Native Dancer.

re: Decompression Chamber

Jermon — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:26:27 GMT

Once again, in your response to

Draynay, you've hit the nail on

the head. Your tone also reflects

something I've been hoping for,

that you would be less tactful in

some of your responses. Asking if

this person expected a serious

answer implies the question was

ridiculous. Would Dr.Fager win a

race today? If any thing, he would

be more formidable today than he

was in the past. Case closed!

Got a chuckle out of your comments

about Charlie Hatten. Had always

felt he was a tough old goat, and

wondered if that flinty look in his

eyes was bourbon induced. Often

wondered if I would have the nerve

to approach him if I saw him at a

track. If I did, it would be with

quaking knees.

re: Decompression Chamber

Blueplenilune — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:21:44 GMT

Well, Steve, you did it again. Your passionate words are very inspiring in reminding us of what the sport of horseracing can be.

I just wish horses were still made the way they were in those days. Between breeding (mal)practice, lack of real training tactics, and synthetic surfaces...it's been a long time since we had horses of that talent and ability. Thank you for the great read. It was refreshing and a lot of fun.

Plenilune