Rachel and Jess

re: Rachel and Jess

WWSTP — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 17:37:39 GMT

In my above comments I missnamed a filly - she is Lethal Heat...Unusual Heat's daughter.

re: Rachel and Jess

WWSTP — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 17:29:07 GMT

Rachel's not done, nor are Jackson and Asmussen idiots or abusers. With all this "Z is better than RA" ridiculous banter, it is really worth sitting with, and contemplating, a few amazing feats. RA did run her guts out last year, more than we've EVER seen a filly do...to a sport that demands that a filly win against the boys before she is taken seriously. She did it 3 times in a clear, obvious, grueling campaign. That is a simple, amazing and history breaking fact. She should have been tired at the end of her campaign...very tired...extremely tired....and very deserving of the 6 month rest she was given, as well as HOY. But, in no way is she done!! During that grueling campaign we saw an awe inspiring combination of extreme talent and heart, rarely seen before. That is not going away for her. JJ and Asmussen will give her the time to get fit and sound, and time to move into her 4 year old body and mind, and she will return….. perhaps as a different horse, as often happens to 4 year olds, but not as a lesser horse or an unhappy horse. Personally, I don't care if she beats Z or looses to her. RA is not even close to being done!!

This hype between Z and RA has brought out so many insane comments and statements, and surging foul energy, I find myself relieved that JJ and Asmussen are taking a step back and out of it. That's not abuse, it's wisdom. RA and Z are genuinely "horses for the ages", whose names we'll repeat over and over again for decades, citing their accomplishments and their historical ability to establish one racing year, and possibly two, where the girls ruled. Unheard of!! I have incredible respect for both horses and both camps. One is more aggressive, the other more cautious. So, the difference is part of the intrigue. It's worth remembering that after Eight Belles tragic accident, just a short time ago, most if not all fillies, including Z, were kept from racing the boys in the wake of the horror of Eight Belles fate, and the screaming, trantrum like stated beliefs that fillies should not run with the males. “They are weaker; they are not big enough or strong enough to run with the boys”. Remember all of that??? Well, RA and her camp literally smashed that hesitancy and fear into tiny pieces!! They opened the door wide open, and once that was opened we saw all kinds of fillies running with the boys, winning, and hitting the board. Unusual Heat, All I can Say is WOW, Ventura, and the list goes on and on.

A "norm" was changed last year, and most of us never felt ourselves engaged in the shift that happened to us, thanks to RA and her connections breaking the fear based beliefs that held so many other's back. So while so much JJ and RA smashing is going on, let’s not forget the door that was opened because JJ bought her from an owner that held those old and outdated beliefs. We have history making fillies, and racing, because and only because, JJ took ownership of RA, and RA’s heart and talent smashed down an old closely held standard that needed to die a good solid death.

re: Rachel and Jess

catbird — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:33:19 GMT

Great column, Steve -- dead on the money.

If I were an Eclipse Award voter, I would not be regretting a vote for Rachel, as some respondents here are saying. That was 2009, and there are no doubts in my mind that she deserved it.

This year is another story, and we have yet to see who amasses the best record. I'm thrilled to death that reportedly we will see Zenyatta go looking for more competition than she has faced thus far, so whatever happens with Rachel, we are due for a fun year of racing.

Bottom line is: Both mares are great, and both come equipped with owners who would do well to keep their mouths shut. Moss was first out of the gate with questionable comments after the Eclipse Awards, but Jackson now has taken the lead in the shut-me-up contest.

re: Rachel and Jess

PMAC14 — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:02:29 GMT

JAJ

The reason is that Zen is a monster and needed the extra time to go through growth spurts

re: Rachel and Jess

sidekickflats — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:00:07 GMT

Criminal Type ,

Regarding Zen and Midnight Lute, I found the following comment in an article by Art Wilson:

"Zenyatta is 17 hands. Shirreffs told a story last year about how Baffert wanted to prove Midnight Lute was bigger and marched into Shirreffs barn one morning with a tape measure, claiming he was the "myth buster." He left a few minutes later, mumbling something about, 'Yep, Zenyatta is bigger.' Shirreffs says he's never seen a bigger horse, and not just because she's 17 hands tall. Lots of horses have been 17 hands tall, but it's her hind that is so massive and so powerful that sets her apart from other big horses.

Thought you might like to read that.

Also, I was just on Churchill Downs website and it talked about Rachel. Steve A. was asked about whether she would be ready to run in the next 2 months and all he said was "we will do what's right by her". Hopefully he'll share with the fans where she'll run when it's settled.

Also, for the ones who were talking about foals coming, The Bloodhorse reported yesterday that the great mare Zerkava is in foal to Sea the Stars. I wouldn't mind having that foal! Of course I would have to move to France...

re: Rachel and Jess

Slew — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 00:19:45 GMT

I'm so confused...Moody Girl: Seattle Slew was not undefeated. He is the only undefeated Triple Crown winner means he won all preceding races. He did not win all after the Crown.

He lost a race to J.O.Tobin in '77

He raced as a 4 year old, and beat Affirmed twice. It was Exceller who beat him in the Jockey Gold Cup, but he beat Exceller in a previous race. Cigar was not unbeaten, but he won 16 straight races as a 4 and 5 year old. A few horses have had amazing winning streaks. Fewer still have been undefeated. Even Secretariat lost to Onion at Saratoga. I believe it was Secretariat whose heart was said to weigh 22 pounds after his necropsy...the largest ever recorded.

re: Rachel and Jess

sidekickflats — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:57:32 GMT

Fahad,

It would be very interesting to hear the Moss's view of the thought process. That article actually seems to be daring Rachel to come west if anything. Obv. they changed their mind come August and made the Beldame a possibility BEFORE Jackson committed to the WW. I doubt seriously if the Mother Goose caused the Mosses to reconsider racing Rachel. Does anyone even remember who finished 2nd? The 3 year old fillies up to that point were not the strongest bunch (except for Rachel of course)

so no reason to "fear" racing Rachel based on that victory.

I do remember, when NYRA announced the purse increase to attract both Zen and Rachel, that someone in the racing media said that it was too little, too late. That the proposal came too late for either camp to really change their trajectories for the season and that quite possibly was the case. In that is indeed true, neither camp "ducked" the other it just wasn't in the cards.

If Rachel goes in the La Troienne, she may face Unrivaled Belle, the winner of Bamberra's race. Unrivaled Belle has been invited to the Apple Blossum so she can take the pick of which mares she wants to face. The Apple Blossum is a grade 1 with a higher purse so that may be the deciding factor.

Also, it does not surprise me that the Mosses spoke negatively against synthetics. John Shirreffs has always been a vocal opponent of artificial surfaces and has said in the past the Zen prefers dirt. But they live in S. Cal and race in S. Cal so not much to do about it at least until Santa Anita goes back to dirt.

re: Rachel and Jess

moodygirl — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:34:07 GMT

First, an apology to Paula Higgins for my typo, no offense intended. TVnewsbadge, why do you say "no doubt Zenyatta's connections will not give a re-match" to Rachel? I think I remember the Moss's saying that Zenyatta & Rachel might race againt each other in more than one race. This was after the Eclipse Awards and before the AB discussions, as far as both of them being there. Does anyone remember who was talking about more than one race for them?

I think that Eclipse voter who said he would not vote for Zenyatta if there is a Triple Crown Winner is a sexist. He is probably thinking a Triple Crown winner trumps Zenyatta because it would most likely be a male horse. Zenyatta's achievements or what she might yet achieve is not as significant because she is a female. It could be some other screwed up reason too!

I think part of the problem with people appreciating Zenyatta is because she is so unique, so special. She did not race until her 3rd year because of her enormous size and the extra time needed for her bones to close. Therefore, she did not go the Triple Crown route as do most great horses.

Zenyatta was never a typical horse. I think people try to put her in the same box as Rachel and she does not fit! Many don't appreciate her unbeaten streak because it hardly ever happens. She is so unusual to still be racing at this level at her age (really her prime). She has had incredible health & fitness, again so unusual. With her mamoth size and incredible drive to win for a female, when has there ever been one just like her?! In my own mind I am sure she has an x-factor heart. While this is carried in the female line, it manifests typically in the male horse. Again what are the odds for for this in a female? Does anyone know? All that is said with no put down of Rachel or her accomplishments. I am just pointing out they are different horses who have taken different paths. I just don't think there has ever been a horse like Zenyatta and it's why comparing she and Rachel is so difficult. Some appreciate one and not the other and I think it is because they are such different horses and their roads to greatness also. Then you factor in Zenyatta's out of this world characteristics and it is not an easy comparison for people, thus the big dispute.

re: Rachel and Jess

chuck — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 22:26:43 GMT

Tvnewsbadge: If Gio Ponti wins Dubai, it will further enhance Zenyatta's greatness. Zenyatta is already great, this year will determine how great!!

re: Rachel and Jess

tvnewsbadge — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:55:49 GMT

Plus, instead of worrying about the potential effect of a Triple Crown this year, which isn't likely to happen, fans might be better served to tune into Gio Ponti this weekend.

If that guy pulls it off in Dubai, HoTY might not be such a lock after all if it's ONLY based on an undefeated career.

re: Rachel and Jess

Zookeeper — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:06:40 GMT

sidekickflats,

I think that chances are very good that Rachel would run in the La Troienne. I don't think Zen's connections would go there, for the reasons you have stated. Whether RA runs in that race or not will depend on how she's doing and also WHO else will be pointed to the same spot. Whatever happens, it should be very fascinating to see how the people involved with these two horses react to each other's words and actions. We live in interesting times... and not just in horse racing.

re: Rachel and Jess

Fahad Malaikah — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:56:54 GMT

Addendum,

To be fair, and to give Moss the benfit of the doubt, maybe his thoughts after 6/27 had more to do with Zen's Vanity and taking it "one race at a time." He certainly had the right.

Best,

Fahad

re: Rachel and Jess

Laura — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:54:17 GMT

Footlick, I know Ribot ran at four, as did all the rest bar Colin - and Eclipse, who didn't even start racing until he was five in a very different era. I was merely pointing out that Zenyatta's wins are ALL against older horses, with none of them in the age-restricted two- and three-year-old races. She's had to take on open fields almost from day one, running in her first stake third time out. The 2008 Apple Blossom, where she destroyed Ginger Punch and all the rest, was only her fourth start. Rare times, indeed.

re: Rachel and Jess

Fahad Malaikah — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:51:10 GMT

Sidekickflats and Dakota,

I finally found this article that I had been looking for, so I wanted to share it with you. On June 27, the morning of the Mother Goose, Moss said on XM radio’s “Down the Stretch” that there was a good chance that he would leave southern California to face RA, and he thought that shipping outside of California would help Zen’s bid for HOTY, which he stated he wanted to win. Interestingly, he also stated that he shared JJ’s negative views of synthetic tracks. See:

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

Compare that to his June 29 statements after the Mother Goose from the article that we are both familiar with, where Moss ruled out the option of going to Saratoga or Belmont, thus ruling out the option of the Beldame, Personal Ensign, and Go for Wand. See:

www.bloodhorse.com/.../zenyatta-rachel--duel-unlikely-before-bc

That really didn’t leave many good options for JJ to respond to at the time, with the possible exception of the Delaware Handicap. You can judge that however you like, but one could argue that Moss was having second thoughts after RA’s Mother Goose victory. I don’t know what he was thinking, but like JJ, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Again, I think there was a small window of opportunity when this could have really taken place after the Mother Goose, when I think JJ would have gone for it especially if there had been more incentive/pressure, but neither side wanted to go out of their way to do it. Ultimately, as well, JJ had higher priorities than Zen for RA at that juncture, in my opinion. Before the Mother Goose, the matchup was certainly less realistic given the difference in age.

As for Oaks-day for RA, I think they may very well be preparing for that, and Oaks-day is when I have argued all along that this matchup should have been tentatively set.

Respectfully,

Fahad

re: Rachel and Jess

sidekickflats — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:50:08 GMT

Everyone,

What do you think the chance is that Rachel will race in the La Troienne? It's a gr 2 1 1/16 race on Oaks day. She would be pretty safe to avoid Zen. Zen would have raced 3 weeks prior in the Apple Blossum and would have run in 2 straight 1 1/8 races so probably won't shorten up and turn around that quick.

re: Rachel and Jess

boatrocker — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:18:49 GMT

Thank you Matthew for setting me straight. In my part of the country, RA is considered "America's horse" and Z is a California horse (except for 1 race at Oaklawn). Rachel and Oaklawn were Z's "claim to fame" because I had barely heard of her before Oaklawn, only in passing, but that's because I don't follow the California tracks, i.e., preference for tracks run by the Churchill Downs family. Anyone see Undercover Boss show featuring CEO (?) of Churchill Downs? I thought it was well done. To me currently, there is no Rachel without Z and there is no Z without Rachel. I'm leaning toward being more of a Z fan now since all this riff came about, but still believe Rachel won HOY fair and square. I LOVE HORSES. Now the Mosses know you cannot keep a horse in CA and expect HOY. Rachel broke many different track/race records around the country. And would have broke one more if her rider hadn't gotten arrogant at the finish line . . . but this has all been said before . . . happy horsing around.

re: Rachel and Jess

Fahad Malaikah — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:05:57 GMT

Sidekickflats,

Thank you for your kind response. It has really been a pleasure conversing with you as well. I mean, in the end, we are talking about something that is primarily a subjective issue based on a lot of speculation. We can debate as much as we like, and I think that does help to further the discourse on these matters, but we’ll never know for sure what motivates the involved parties and what they are thinking.

Some of your points I partly addressed in my response to Dakota, and like I said to him, even if HOTY didn’t matter to the Mosses (which I think it did), they would certainly have been concerned about having the “best” horse, so to speak. RA was beating males and breaking records all over the place, which Zen hadn’t done yet, and so many could have said that RA was better almost by default (which I don’t necessarily agree with). I remember watching Youtube videos from around August-September 2009, I believe from LarryZapeye, where he asked some trainers who they thought was better between Zen and RA. I believe all of them said RA was better, and some seemed to hint that RA was something like the next coming of Ruffian, if not better. If there really could have been a race last year, I also fault JJ for not going out of his way. Yet, the Mosses clearly stated in the beginning that they didn’t want to ship East to face RA, so they weren’t giving JJ many options to respond in kind, since he also didn’t want to ship to California. When I am talking about a window of opportunity, I am talking about after the Mother Goose. The Beldame was still on the table after the Wood, but I don’t think that JJ was as “worried” about Zen at that point (in terms of HOTY or competition) as he might be now after the BCC. Zen hadn’t given us much of an opportunity in 2009, at that point, to see if she was even as good as she was in 2008. I just don’t see JJ shying away from a matchup a little earlier in the year if there had been enough incentive/pressure to face her, like if Zen had been tearing up the track in 2009. Thus, he chose a more unprecedented path, and that path knocked out the option of the Beldame, where the Mosses originally refused to run anyway.

I really believe the connections when they say that they were taking it “one race at a time” last year; and the Wood took out the Beldame option for RA. As for Zen going to the Beldame, well, the Mosses stated that they might go with or without RA’s presence, and one reason they might have done that would be to decisively prove to the doubters that she could run outside of California (yes, I know of her 2008 AB victory). Since RA opted out, sure, their focus reverted to the BC and they took a more comfortable prep at SA. Finally, I don’t think that JJ had a lot of confidence in their intentions to run, and so he went with the Wood, a more prestigious race at the penultimate venue Saratoga. The natural progression from the Haskell would have been the Travers, but after beating 3yo males twice, he laid it on the line in the Wood against older males, and got a week longer for her to rest to boot.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that the connections were thinking about this “one race at a time” this year, when a hasty decision was made for April 9th for the AB. That is where the mistakes were made, and now RA’s connections have every right to make sure she is as good as last year before they face Zen. They should wait for RA to give them all the signs that she is truly ready, and then take it “one race at a time" and make sure we have the same RA. If the NOL was the best that RA has to offer this year, then we're not talking about the same RA, a possibility that Asmussen has admitted in his statements. Hopefully, both RA and Zen are even better this year.

Respectfully,

Fahad

re: Rachel and Jess

Zookeeper — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:59:41 GMT

carolyn,

Zenyatta could not have won the crown. She didn't race until the end of her 3rd year. If she had been pushed earlier (you call it given the chance) not only would she have not won the Triple Crown but she would have been ruined. No 2008 & 2009 seasons and definitely no 2010 promising year. So I'm very glad that her connections elected to "deprive" her of the "chance" to blow her mind and body by racing her before she was good and ready. It happens every year. Young talented horses are sacrificed to the ego of connections with Derby Fever. As exciting as the Triple Crown season is, too many horses get in the gate on Derby day with little chance of winning it and are never the same afterwards.

re: Rachel and Jess

JAJ — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:48:45 GMT

Carolyn,

Zenyatta as a 3-year old could never have gotten the Triple Crown.

She didn't start in her first race until November of her 3-year old year.

For whatever reason, she was not ready to race until she was almost 4.

re: Rachel and Jess

chuck — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:45:21 GMT

Chalkbuster, I couldn't agree more! Undefeated at the highest level is as difficult or more so than a TC winner. That is why there are fewer undefeated horses who ran at the highest level. What makes the TC so difficult besides the grueling schedule is that the horses are not yet quite mature but these are also restricted 3 year old races. When you run at open company at age 4, the quality of the competition gets a lot better and that is what Rachel is going to experience. More often than not, a great older horse beats a younger great horse.

re: Rachel and Jess

SMTDL — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:16:58 GMT

Kathleen..

I believe the Preakness distance is also considered a classic distance!I know the Triple Crown races are considered to be Classics and winners are referred to as Classic Winners!!Rachel and Zenyatta have each won a classic race at a classic distance against Males.Rachel did it off 2 weeks rest!!!Awesome for a filly. I believe only Winning Colors and Genuine Risk are the fillies to run in all 3 races of the Triple Crown!!!

Zenyatta did it against a world class field of Males..also awesome!!

re: Rachel and Jess

jpsbman — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:06:12 GMT

Tvnews

"especially when he knows that without doubt Zenyatta's connections will not give him a re-match."

I wonder how he knows that?

re: Rachel and Jess

Criminal Type — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:59:45 GMT

OK, you guys..lol...first of all, It was a dream. The Baffert/Sheriffs hilarity was the focal point of the dream. Although I love Midnight Lute, I understand about the Size of the stallion mattering so much because Zenyatta is so big, I do not think breeding to him would be a wise choice. She needs to go to a stallion who is smaller and more compact such as Hard Spun, 16.2, nick A, Rachels sire, Medaglia D'oro, nick A (Rachel is bred on this cross) or even better, Offlee Wild 16.0, nick A++.(Just examples)

Secondly, Apparently I was mistaken about Rachels height. I was wrong. I thought I read somewhere she was 17 hands. Still although I will admit this is a big difference to Zenyatta's 17.2, Rachel is still a good size filly.

re: Rachel and Jess

carolyn — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:51:49 GMT

Wouldn't it be great after all these years that we have a triple crown winnner?

I hope it will happen in my lifetime but I don't ever see it happening.

It just doesnt' look like they are bred for that stamina any more.

They put in the two first races then they are beat by a fresher horse in the third race, which is why it is considered such a grueling task.

Gone are the days of the triple crown winners, I hope not, I do hope one day we see it again.

I wonder, had she been given the chance, if Zenyatta as a three year old could have won the crown?

We will never know.

re: Rachel and Jess

Chalkbuster — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:32:35 GMT

TVnewsbadge said:

An undefeated career can be engineered by careful selection of venues and opponents, by only running the horse when he or she is at her peak and only at a track and distance and in weather conditions that suits the horse.

My comment is, if it is so easy to run these perfect careers, how come there is so few, in all of the recorded history of horse racing??

From what I've read there are fewer undefeated careers than triple crown winners. They are both extremely difficult to achieve, yet different in their own way.