Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

joe — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 23:10:44 GMT

"The owner of Uncle Mo has no rights to his races."

False. He has the right to enter whatever races he is eligible, the right to earn those purses, the right to scratch, the right to negotiate a match race or appearance bonus with tracks, etc...

The reason the model continues is for stability. This proposal seems to try and discourage horse ownership even moreso than today's climate.

The host tracks should be recieving a higher percentage.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

mike s — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:12:43 GMT

transmissions of horse racing is in the dark ages. channels like hrtv and tvg should be on basic cable, all races should be free on internet without having to deposit money into an account. used to have youbet, then twinspires comes in and asks you to jump thru hoops to get to next page. lokk at otb's and race track age groups and it's easy to figure out most won't be with us long [myself included]. if new blood is not avaiable to easy access to racing, game over. to me the number #1 improvement would be to get those 2 racing channels on basic cable. take care fans, articles like this can start some new thinking, thanks for some new blood

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Rachel — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:35:30 GMT

Well, when they reward the bread n' butter horse (who pays out the same $$$ at the window for a 5-1 bet as the big grade 1 horses), who races weekly, laying their poor bodies down for the sport that lets them run hurt and doped up, who gets to ride a crowded rig a thousand miles to get thwacked in the head with a bolt gun and hopefully dies before he's hoisted up by a back leg...

Then I'll go gaga over the "big horse" that everyone loves.

For me...it's the bread n' butter folks and runners that need to get a decent paycheck...

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Karl — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:23:35 GMT

I'm thinking if they did this, all the 5000 claimers and such would be in the slaughter house, and all that would be run is a 3 race program with only stakes horses, no pick 4, no pick 6.And back to the rich getting richer.Also curlin made 10 million, and mo could too,isn't that reward enough?

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Deltalady — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 06:36:59 GMT

More like “voice crying in the wilderness”, Fred! What a novel idea! Apply the principles of our wonderful free enterprise, market-based system! The current “welfare” system the sport is operating under is squeezing the life out of the every aspect of the industry. I like the way your mind works. So many ills can be addressed by an adjustment in how talent is rewarded. One such area that would benefit would be to give the commercial breeders an incentive to “improve the breed” as well as breed for speed. We might actually return to the days when horses could start 30-40 or more times with no ill effects. All I can say is, I do hope you bend the ear of those in the sport who can actually spearhead some major reforms along the lines you suggest before it’s too late. From reading and listening to Mike Repole, he just might be the right person for the job of heading up just such a commission.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Pedigree Ann — Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:01:02 GMT

In Britain, the races that have the most betting are not the races that attract the best horses. The Group 1 races are weight for age or scale weight races. The big betting races are the handicaps, with 25-30 runners with weights from 140 lbs on down. (And yes, horses carrying 140 lbs can win while conceding 30 lbs.)

It is similar in Australia, where the big handicaps like the Melbourne Cup attract all the betting action. But there, the best horses still run in handicaps and concede the weight.

The tendency in the US has been to emasculate handicaps and/or turn them into wfa races. We don't see 15-25 lb weight-spreads anymore or weights on very top horses in the 130s where they belong. Tracks want the big horses to run and sacrifice field size to get them; who wants to take on Invasor unless they get a significant weight concession?

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Carla — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:47:08 GMT

Great ideas I also think that you need to get more people involved. Mike Repole really impressed me at the awards with his speeches they were funny, witty and alot of it made sense. One thing he said was that he was going to try and get people involved again and interested well I think that one way to get the public back into the Horse Racing is let them take part in it. I think they should have a contest prior to the derby and have a drawing with some of the contenders and let their be a draw that they are part of the excitement for the day. Let's use Uncle Mo for now, someone draws his name maybe that person can be party the Uncle Mo team meaning they can experience in a taste of it maybe have seats with the owners, get to go to the paddock horse wins a pictures be part...Maybe its a bit much being the Derby is so a bit large to do that but think of how many people interested in becoming an owner to experience the thrill of a high profiled race being part of it up close and personal. I have been lucky to have that chance and its alot different being part of the event then just watching it from tv or say the seats way way way out there............. just a thought

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Highway 44 Avenger — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:38:24 GMT

Fred Pope has been putting out good ideas for years. Has anyone ever used any of his ideas yet?

Doubt it.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

JerseyBoy — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 13:35:58 GMT

Fred:

You wrote:

"Currently we have three tote companies that do not seem to work well with each other. They cannot stop “past posting”.

Are you saying the computers cannot be programmed to stop all wagering, say 15 seconds before post time? That is all that would be required to stop "past posting" if it exists.

As an additional check, all bets could be time-stamped and all bets that show a time-stamp later than the actual start-time would be treated as void.

This is so simple, it is probably currently available.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

A. Evers — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 00:32:03 GMT

Great article. Unfortunately the only way that there will be this sort of monumental change is if the industry collapses first. Im still a fan of a central body governing the entire sport in the United States. Uniformed drug policies, and wagering options. Right now there is no incentive to owners to run their horses. The breeding industry is too lucrative. You have unsound horses winning one or two races and then being rushed off to stud to breed more unsound horses. I digress... great article.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Dave T — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 10:38:07 GMT

The Graded Stakes Commitee is not doing the sport any favors by putting so many graded races out there. For example, Saratoga's Sword Dancer and The Arlington Million are two very similar races yet they are conflicting with one another because they are run one week apart and instead of bringing the quality horses together it is dividing them. As a result, you have two somewhat lackluster fields and betting races.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Convene — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 23:14:41 GMT

Like most of the things Mr. Pope writes, this is an interesting concept and seems to make sense. Maybe it would make sure we really "prove" our stars based on who they beat instead of which "name" races they win.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Dumfounded — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 04:40:15 GMT

You are nuts!

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Dogman Danny — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 23:08:40 GMT

Mr.Pope.... That is how our business (greyhound racing) pays its purses, based on handle the best dogs get the biggest points per performance....Their is no set purses for anyrace, just a point system where the better dogs get more points than the lesser ones based on the handle for that days wagering...

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

pg303 — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 20:42:33 GMT

Many good points. Racing needs a unifed, updated, cutting edge tote system. That is great for everyone in the business. It also needs more convenient, easily accessible and non-intimidating points of entry for new fans-- i.e., the track needs to be a pleasant place to go. It can't be dingy, dirty, unfriendly, confusing,have poor amenities, or attract skeevy characters. How does your local track measure up?

Effective marketing, which racing has no clue how to accomplish, allows consumers to want the product. But the product has to fill a need first, and the above drawbacks are apparent at too many tracks.

My one point of disagreement: the idea of adding purse money to races featuring horses that draw more betting money seems like a fantastic opportunity for misuse and abuse. Doesn't take much imagination to see how that can be turned to one's advantage. (And by the way, its Google, not goggle...)

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Giddyup — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:53:06 GMT

So Uncle Mo is a brand after running all of three races? Makes me wonder if Eskendereya was also a brand a year ago this time. The problem with any reward system is that it results in others sometimes unfairly being penalized.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

CHoffman — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 17:50:41 GMT

This could solve the lack of advertising racing suffers from. People with horses they perceive as "good" or "great" will be taking out full page ads to promote their animal. Maybe. The breeding shed is still where a colt makes his biggest money with the least expense.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

On Spec — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 17:44:15 GMT

I like these ideas, and please excuse my ignorance for asking about something that perhaps everyone else knows, but who is Fred Pope? Any financial interest in this that your readers should know about?

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

sceptre — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 03:53:36 GMT

Mr. Pope,

Re-your model for purse distribution:

I think you failed to account for some variables. On-track handle does constitute part of the overall pool, and is, in part, dependant on the entire card. The stronger the card, the more likely more bettors will turn out and thus increase the overall daily pool. Not only will the feature attract a larger pool, but all races on the card. All else equal, why should a 20K claimer in the 1st receive a greater purse than a 20K claimer that happened to compete on a non-stakes card?. On- track handle aside, horses (all) that compete on weekends/high profile racing days tend to attract more wagers than those competing on other days. Owners would be at the mercy of the racing secretaries who write the condition books...Lastly, the relative "popularity" of a horse-at the higher end- is already somewhat built in to the purse structure. One could argue that it's already top-heavy (purse-wise) at the upper end of the spectrum. As your proposed scheme should have little, if any, impact on overall handle, the net result would be a futher shrinkage of the number of horses in training. From the fiscal perspective, owning racehorses is very much a homerun or nothing enterprise-increasingly so in more recent years. If the total yearly pool remains constant and the more "popular" receive more of it, then all others will receive less. The net effect would be an ever lessening of the "all others" to a point where only the perceived most popular would remain. Problem is that perceived "better" or "best" are relative terms-that without the "lessers" there are no perceived betters or bests. Racing would eventually disappear, but for, perhaps, one day, at first, and then disappear completely, as not too many would be interested in the competition between the few remaining.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Mark — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 22:44:03 GMT

Some good ideas. But the missing link here is the tracks. They are not making good money, not investing in the game, not making good decisions. Imagine trying to put together a successful concert tour without the venues.

The tracks don't feel like they have the power or the choice to fight with OTB outlets that don't pay their fair share. So we are stuck in an industry that subsidizes places like NYC OTB, Mid-Atlantic tracks/OTB's that refuse to pay their share, and the same for Las Vegas race books.

The result is the tracks make less money on each race. Because of this, they have less investment in the success of each race and each day of racing. That's why tracks are cutting back on race dates.

The problem is the pie is cut up so many different ways, nobody has enough invested in seeing any one thing succeed. Think about that for a second. Even with the Derby, Churchill Downs does not make enough money that they promote the Derby anywhere nationally. And the OTB outlets (and tracks) nationwide feel they don't make enough money, so they don't promote the Derby either. So, it's a downward spiral.

From that point, Fred's right in that it would be better to let one group make all the money and invest in growth.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

CHoffman — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 22:06:34 GMT

You said it all right there. That's the cure. BUT Let one trainer, one owner, one jockey endorse your idea and they will find themselves locked out. I've heard of trainers making suggestions and finding themselves without a set of stalls, owners without trainers and jockeys without horses. The industry has a "shut up or you don't play" attitude. Until this hurdle is overcome, forget your suggestions. By the way? Still have your job here?

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

peacesus — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:31:37 GMT

i agree with pope and would love to send/email this to everyone in my address book but don't see an option at the top of the page to do so....

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Equination.net — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 16:29:23 GMT

Uniformity is going to be a key factor in the success of the sport. With all of the organizations within the sport fighting with each other (the tracks, the tote systems, the racing tv channels, owners/breeder organizations, etc.) nothing is ever going to get accomplished. Excellent article.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

Brigitte — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 03:27:59 GMT

Nice to have one tote.

Other than that, most racehorses are not candidates for being a Brand and the few that are don't last long enough to be a Brand. Zenyatta did became a Brand in her last year and a half of racing and she's gone. Barbaro - let's not go there. Uncle Mo? We are all hoping, hoping, as we did for Eskendereya and so many others. If our hopes come true we'll have a Brand for a few months. Oh, and every time Uncle Mo enters a race it will become less competitive, worse for the bettors and Uncle Mo's connections will be punished.

Actually, the Brand is Horse Racing which needs Breeders, Owners, Trainers and tracks. It's not welfare to make it worthwhile for all.

Nice to read about a new idea but this one needs more thought. Handle is hard to predict or plan on.

re: Pope: Reward Horses that Generate the Most Handle with Higher Purses

SirPenn — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 03:08:10 GMT

Finally, a voice with reason and direction! Let's put a halt to grade one racing with five horse fields. Changing the compensation system for talent is the key.