Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

re: Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

Coldfacts — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:50:53 GMT

English Pete,

“It reminds me of the old saying that the exception proves the rule.”

Oh Yes! I am too familiar with the phrase. With that stated, there have not been many tail male descendants of Sadler’s Wells in the breeding barns in the US. I suspect the general view matches the one you hold that the line is overwhelmingly turf despite Northern Dancer the sire of Sadler’s Wells raced on dirt.

El Prado who was produce from a Mr. Prospector mare appears to be the only tail male descendant of Sadler’s Wells that was given an extended chance to dispel this widely held view.

In addition to the three horses cited in my previous submission, the ones below also preformed creditably on dirt:

Paddy O Prado By El Prado – He finished 3rd in The Kentucky Derby.

Violence by Medaglia D’ Oro - Won Cash Call Futurity (G1), Nashua S.(G2), 2nd Fountain of Youth (G2). He was an early favorite for the Kentucky Derby before his untimely retirement due to injury.

Warrior’s Reward by Medaglia D’ Oro - Won Carter H. (G1,7F); 2nd Jim Dandy S. (G2,Sar,9F)

El Prado sired a multimillionaire and a millionaire that raced on dirt. His son Medaglia D’ Oro sired two millionaires. One was voted HOTY and the other was an early favorite for the Kentucky Derby.

El Prado represented a minor sample that proved that with sufficient numbers and opportunities the Sadler’s Wells line could be equally dominant of dirt as it has been on turf. Clearly, success would be contingent on his tail male descendants being bred to dirt horses. It is unlikely that European based broodmare bands would produce a significant amount of proficient dirt horses if any.

I consider the exception to the rule phrase applicable in cases where a large sampling result in limited success. There has not been a large enough sampling of Sadler’s Wells line stallions in a country where dirt is the dominant surface for racing.

re: Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

English Pete — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:30:49 GMT

hi Coldfacts, you are indeed correct about El Prado being a son of Sadler's Wells. I wouldn't change my overall conclusion, but I have to amend it to say 'with the exception of El Prado'. It reminds me of the old saying that the exception proves the rule.

re: Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

Coldfacts — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:18:48 GMT

English Pete,

"The Sadlers Wells line just doesn't work out at all on Dirt."

The reference to Sadler's Wells line I take to mean his tail made descendants. If I am correct, El Prodo who was sired by Sadler's Wells was the sire of:

Borrego:1st: Pacific Classic S. (G1), Jockey Club Gold Cup (G1) Earnings:$2M

Medaglia D Oro: Travers S.(G1), Jim Dandy (G2), Whitney (G1)Donn H.(G1) 2nd Breeders' Cup Classic (G1) Twice, 2nd Dubai World Cup (UAE-G1) Earnings $5.7M.

Medaglia D Oro sire HOTY, Rachel Alexandra.

You might want to reconsider your conclusion.

Read more on BloodHorse.com: cs.bloodhorse.com/.../galileo-proving-up-to-challenge.aspx

re: Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

mz — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 23:04:39 GMT

English Pete, I also had some inappropriate comments so thankgawd for the xxxx button!

I,too was really impressed by Giants Causeway and really surprised by Galileo the next year. I couldn't believe such a good horse could run so badly. Looks like your comments about him not going on dirt is the answer but I really wonder if it would have made any difference if the race would have been on synthetic or even if G had had a run over some North American track before the Classic.

re: Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

English Pete — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:22:37 GMT

Hi mz, judging by the ride he got from young Joseph last weekend, Australia would get a taxi but it would probably go the long way round and end up in somebody else's trench (sorry, the best I can do without descending into bad taste).

You're so right about Galileo's granddaddy and it took many people - me included - a long time to realise that the Sadlers Wells line just doesn't work out at all on Dirt. That shows, I think, how surprising it was. It may be that if more of the best horses from the line were tried on Dirt then results would be different, but more likely (to me, at least) is that SW blessed his best progeny with not only stamina, but also with acceleration. That characteristic 'turn of foot' is less effective (again my opinion) on Dirt where either the ability to carry early speed or the ability to grind out a long stretch run are more useful. Sadlers Wells also seemed to pass down a liking for a bit of dig in the (Turf) ground which in my opinion is another factor behind the Dirt stats of SW and his line. Anyway, I think you'll take my comments in the spirit that I intend for them, which is absolutely NOT to denigrate SW or his line, including Galileo. I suppose in the end that for sires to excel so obviously at something there's bound to be something else that doesn't really work.

I am a big fan of the 'Iron Horse' Giant's Causeway, by the way. Travelled to UK tracks many times to see him and I couldn't believe he lost out on his BCC attempt. Of course in those days I didn't know US racing so did not know Tiznow nor realise how good he was until his repeat win the following year. Now Tiznow is also interesting for the fact he beat Giant's Causeway (a Storm Cat) a nose at level weights then the following year beat Galileo (Sadlers Wells) 8 lengths giving him the 4lbs WFA allowance.

My conclusion: Any Galileo's appearing on Turf in the BC meeting - GET ON; any on Dirt - they don't hit the board.

re: Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

mz — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:01:26 GMT

English Pete: good WWII reference but considering it is the centennial of the start of WWI, we need to come up with a First World War reference. Instead of "a bridge too far", how about "Australia won't be able to find a taxi from Paris to the front"? Poor but the best I can do on the spur of the moment.

Despite Galileo and Saddlers Wells being turf sires, remember that granddaddy did win most of his races, including the KD on the dirt. And Giants Causeway has done well with dirt horses too. Maybe it's just a matter of where most of your progeny run-- if Galileo hD come to NAm, I don't doubt that he would have had some good dirt horses too.

re: Galileo Proving Up to Challenge

English Pete — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 21:54:16 GMT

Good article. Galileo is indeed a supersire, as was his daddy. However, it's worth emphasising the point made in the article that ALL of Galileo's BC successes as a sire have come on the turf. The Saddler's Wells line - of which Galileo is a continuation - has proved time and again to have no place in Dirt contests.

Just briefly on another point, I don't think that Australia should pitch up at Sna in November. He's been on the go all year with his first race in May, and I suspect we saw in his defeat last weekend that he may have had enough. Certainly if he runs at Ascot (as planned) in October the BC meeting would be a bridge too far.