Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Footlick — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 18:57:34 GMT

Phil-I won't go on the soapbox again. I have seen comments about Coldfacts in the past that qualify. Anyway, people can respond however they want. Nothing more will be said.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Plod Boy Phil — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 16:45:24 GMT

I must retract my comment regarding Zarvona posting song lyrics. It was Alex'sbiggestfan.

Footlick -

Perhaps the word 'insults' is a bit harsh in the majority of cases. Questioning or disagreeing with posted lists or opinions does not inherently imply disrespect. Insults do.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Footlick — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 14:47:47 GMT

Slew- but doing things like reiterating what Mr Irwin said about him in caps just promotes the very discussion you say you do not what. As far as the RAN line, it has been called that for quite some time now, being this era's main contributor of Native Dancer blood. I have read the term used in various publications for decades. As far as the amount of horses descending from the two bloodlines you cited, even though it is obvious that both bloodlines are over represented, does it make Coldfacts statement untrue? And, it seems to me that there have been a few times on a multitude of blogs where bloggers have ganged up and been insulting to Coldfacts. After a while I'm sure it gets tiring to constantly be barraged with negativity from either the regular bloggers or someone as famous or infamous as Mr Irwin. This is basically why I have stopped contributing, because of the constant insults that are slung so easily, not just toward Coldfacts but even toward a list of horses that Steve has compiled. Just treat your fellow blogger like you would want to be treated. There is a way to criticize someone's post without calling them names or intimating they are stupid, etc. This will be my last post. I don't want to go on about this and take up Steve's blog. And I apologize, Steve, for the soapbox, but I think that it is important that people realize and are aware of how they respond. Thanks.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Slew — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 13:38:36 GMT

Footlick and Phil: I mean no disrespect, and I applaud the enthusiasm that I find. I just feel both parties tend to distort facts in order to support their opinions, and never, ever admit to having erred.

Case in point, CF's insistence that the RAN sire line is most successful in the Derby. He neglects the real fact that 19 of the 20 colts running will trace back to RAN and Northern Dancer. It's a given that the winner will be from the RAN line...Actually Native Dancer line. And 18 of the 20 will probably trace to Bold Ruler also. They are old established breeding lines for over 50 years.

I have no problem with opinions. I enjoy reading differing opinions. I enjoy the ensuing debate on the merits of those opinions. I simply don't buy into the myth that CF is knowledgeable, because too much of what he states is contradicted by the actual facts.

I certainly don't wish either contributor to leave the blog. I want to engage them, but each time I do, CF runs for cover and cries "Victim" instead of backing up his statements. Zarvona simply ignores other posts.

I'm not that knowledgeable, and I enjoy learning from others and doing further research into a subject. But when I am familiar with a subject, and see erroneous statements made, I won't sit on my hands and say nothing.

So many contributors to this blog are astute and savy fans of horse racing. I may not always agree with some perspectives, but we mostly seem to be capable of handling debates with maturity and confidence. We don't take every criticism as a personal affront.

And I would prefer that we discuss horse racing rather than bruised egos.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Plod Boy Phil — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 05:28:01 GMT

Putting Zarvona in the same sentence at Coldfacts is absurd. One cuts and pastes info from other sites and posts song lyrics. The other is knowledgeable.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Footlick — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 04:51:43 GMT

Slew- Coldfacts is a human being and deserves respect as a human being who has the right, just like any of us, to post what he wants and what he thinks, whether you agree with the posts or not.

Enough said!

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Slew — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 01:23:12 GMT

Coldfacts: Barry Irwin called you a PEDANT, not a PENDANT. The difference has already been explained to you; you simply refuse to accept it.

And before these weekly blogs continue deeper into the season, and so I won't have to repeat myself continuously each week, I have something to say.

To me, it appears that Coldfacts and Zarvonna constantly disseminate misinformation, represent opinions as facts, and draw conclusions from mis-aligned and distorted statistics. Added to that, they inundate us with very lengthy comments couching too few real facts in many personal suppositions. When called to task with actual statistics, neither will admit to being wrong at any time, and treat the slightest criticism as a personal attack…crying victim whenever anyone challenges their “facts”.

And in the very next blog, they will repeat their erroneous comments as though the actual facts had not been highlighted for them.

And it's now been going on for several years.

I have absolutely no problem with people voicing their opinions. I find that I become more open to different perspectives. I find myself doing more research. And when I do more research, I discover real facts. And the facts are interesting and very often downright amazing. I’ve just learned not to depend on any truth behind certain voices on this blog.

Enough said!

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

El Kabong — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 00:41:28 GMT

Forbidden Apple,

I love tapits up to 9F, so he's going to need a little help from tail-female side which Steve's says is dynamite. He dusted Den's Legacy without much effort at all. Baffert has described him with lofty adjectives like freak. He looked terrific. I did go back and watch the Tiznow colt Tiz the Truth. He may be able to challenge Flashback, but I don't think anyone else is on his level as of now.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Forbidden Apple — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 22:59:27 GMT

El Kabong,

I agree with you, Revolutionary might be Plether's ace. War Pass on top is a big concern for the 1 1/4 mile KY Derby. I also think Valid deserves another chance in stakes company. He kissed the ground about three times when the gate opened. Any thoughts on Flashback?

Marilyn Braudrick,

Do you have any opinions or information about horses? Or did you come on here to bash another person for no reason at all? I noticed Cold Facts a few years ago, and my first thought was about how much time and passion goes into his posts. If you don;t like his posts, then simply don't read it.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Plod Boy Phil — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:30:37 GMT

Footlick-

I second that emotion.

Keep it coming Coldfacts. I get the sense that anyone capable of supporting their opinions with quantifiable information, and not pure speculation, is not accepted on these forums.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

El Kabong — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:59:37 GMT

Forbidden Apple,

Gonna be a wise guy huh? Revolutionary can run anywhere...............in Queens. We'll have to wait and see if his form transfers, but If makes it here, on the inner and outer surface of the big A, he'll make it......anywhere. That track doesn't flatter anyone. Times are not that important right now, what I'm looking for at this point is how they handled the added distance. I loved how this horse responded to the cards he was dealt, and that push button acceleration(turn of foot) at the end was very telling, He finished with his head still high. When he learnss to lower it, look out. He looks like he'll enjoy more ground. I hope they plan on putting two more races into him. He needs it. I like his breeding for the Derby.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Footlick — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:51:24 GMT

Coldfacts- I may not agree with everything you say, but I have no problems with anything you post. Do not let these critics get to you. Just keep posting.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

El Kabong — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 19:15:24 GMT

Watching the Sam Davis, and it finally dawned on me that Richard Grunder, the track announcer is a dead ringer for Walter Winchell, who was famous for the narration he did for the original tv show, The Untouchables. I can't help but laugh every time I hear his call now, it's classic.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Coldfacts — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:23:18 GMT

marilyn braudrick,

Welcome to the long list of contributors that feel they are obliged to make disparaging remark about poor old Coldfacts.

"Coldfacts "who seems to be using this blog as theater to show off his less than worshipful knowledge of racing”

You are second contributor to have made such a claim. In the case of Mr. Irvin he accused me of using Mr. Haskin’s blog as platform to launch my own. He then proceeded to compare me to a hanging ornament. The gentleman is widely known for his candor. However, are there no boundaries associated with such a character trait? Again I have been accused of using Mr. Haskin’s blog for another venture. Can you provide any evidence to support the claim you have made above? Can you provide any evidence support where I have either stated or inferred that my knowledge of thoroughbred racing supersedes that of Mr. Haskin’s litany supporters? Am I the only contributor that has questions the composition of his Derby Dozen?

I assume you have viewed the historic data that I occasionally share with the supporters of this and other blogs as an attempt to project myself as someone with superior knowledge of racing. If my assumption is correct, you have sadly mistaken my intent. I try to share the historic information I have when it is either relevant to the theme of a blog or an issue raised by a contributor. I happen to believe sharing is caring. Are you aware of the amount of time it takes to research and compile some of the information I have shared?

There is no doubt that I have a passion for thoroughbred. I have owned and raced them. I was forced to become knowledgeable about their keep and care, training and the thoroughbred industry because of incompetent trainers that I retained due to my ignorance at the time. Most of what I know about thoroughbreds I have never disclosed on any of Mr. Haskin’s blogs.

I seem to offend folks wherever I go and with the written and spoken words. I must therefore have seriously deficiencies in my communication and interpersonal skills. In is unlikely that the litany of contributors that have posted disarranging remarks about me can be wrong.

Sometime last year I thanked Mr. Haskin for allowing me to participate in the process and apologize for invariably turning his blogs into attack forums. I pledged then to stop making submission to the Derby Dozen as they always turn out to be controversial. I failed to keep that pledge and this represents yet another failure amongst many in my life. I have allowed my love for participating in these faceless thoroughbred forums to supersede my dignity. Not good!

For those like yourself who take delight in posting disparaging remarks, I would appreciated if you bear in mind the following:

The pathway to unkindness has no starting point as it is not a one of necessity but one of choice.”

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Forbidden Apple — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:04:07 GMT

El Kabong,

Revolutionary is 2/2 on the Aqueduct inner track, should he now be labled an inner dirt horse? He looks promising, but the time was slow and he beat nothing. What an odd comment in the equibase charts regarding the Withers, a newly-created seam. Yes, the seas suddenly parted extremely well for Castellano, what a gift.

So much for the bloggers who were knocking Tapit as a sire. I was impressed by how professional Flasback looked. Again, the time was average for S.A. and he only beat 3 horses. He would have to be considered the early favorite for the S.A. Derby. He's Had Enough was flat, off my radar for good.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

marilyn braudrick — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 01:56:50 GMT

i am tired if listening (reading) all of these bashes of miniscule points in Steve Haskin's articles and other bloggers responses by "Coldfacts "who seems to be using this blog as theater to show off his less than worshipful knowledge of racing . I want to know what "Point Given " another responder to Steve's incredible equine writing thinks.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Ranagulzion — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:39:35 GMT

Your Only Friend,

The first three generations are critical but the 5-cross and going deeper can be really helpful with inbreeding and multiple crosses, especiallly in the broodmare's family.

For example, an impressive colt like Revolutionary, a son of speedball War Pass and grandson of Breeder's Cup sprint champion Cherokee Run, has inbreeding to Hoist The Flag in his dam's family which suggest class and stamina to get the Derby distance.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

zarvona — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:33:03 GMT

yes that was "Declan's Warrior" sry...

gee ...I Never understand why Jockey's think they can ride their mount as if they were on "Zenyatta', but whooa that's what we like to see in win off the pace for a horse bred foreva, NICE GOING "Revolutionary"... And although "Falling Sky" now makes another worth watching and "Flashback" was impressive in his wire to wire victory, one cannot overlook Hollendorfer's "Magnificant Shirt"'s (Non Derby Nom) 1:33.97 Mi or Lynch's "Coffee Clique"'s (Non Derby Nom) Mi. in 1:34.25... But the ride of the day clearly has to go to Fla. Oaks (T) Gr. III Tam. winner "Tapicat" (f) for her 1 1/16 1:39.78 win woowhaooo --I had to check that that run was really at a 1/16 and discovered it was !!! and only .13 of the TRACK RECORD !!! Be sure to keep her in mind!

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

El Kabong — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:49:43 GMT

Revolutionary looked mighty good. Nice ride by Castellano too. Both rider and horse showed patience and winning style. That race was a terrific experience for this colt and he handled it great. HIs head was up in the air at the finish, so there's plenty still left in his tank. Very good colt. Team Valor may have to scout a new ride for Cerro. They should get Stevens while they can. No one is going to beat Flashback out west so if he wants a shot at the Roses he better look east. Would be a good fit too.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Slew — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:41:38 GMT

Davids: I was not impressed by Flashback. Perhaps because I found the entire field lackluster, and stumbling tiredly after 7f.

However, I was more than impressed by the runaway Verrazano, and especially Revolutionary's zig zag to the lead..stop-start-stop-start-threading the needle...how many horses are effective while being so green?

These were Revolutionary's thoughts in the Withers:

"Hey, what are we doing last? That horse that almost fell is now ahead of us. Whazzup with that? Let's go!

I don't like being last. I think that horse ahead of me ate too many baked beans last night. Can we please move up?

Okay, now we're moving! You want me to go right? Okay, goodnight baked beans!

What??? Now, you want me to go left? Okay, whoops, I almost ran over that last one.

Now you want me to right again? Make up your damn mind, why doncha? Is this the way to the front? How about goin' outside?

Left??? You're kidding! You want me to go through that itty, bitty space? Hey....I'm 1200 pounds of dyn-o-mite; how do I squeeze through a little keyhole?

Let's move! My legs are getting tangled up with these clowns. Right, left, I don't care about which foot to put first, I just want outta here!

Hey, where did everybody go? Uhhh,

uhhhhh...maybe we should stop here and wait for the others to catch up?"

I have to say, I was also mighty impressed by Valid who went to his nose out of the gate. He managed to regain his composure and keep going. I had thoughts of I Want Revenge in the Wood and Afleet Alex in the Preakness. I think Valid just may have much to offer in the future.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

El Kabong — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:26:54 GMT

Steve,

Nice call on Verrazano. Can't wait to see him run at next level. I think the call went........"He's going to win this one from Brooklyn to Staten Island." He looked very good yesterday.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Your Only Friend — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 03:50:04 GMT

In breeding 5 cross is nice too look at......but my understanding realisticly you can only count on first 3 generations.....true or false ....only those who really study pedigree knows the true answer.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

cuba"s classic chef de race — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 03:11:28 GMT

Steve some of this experts here want to be sure that you need to stay away from the winners'circle and i can sense that when i read their pedigree comments about derby contenders but an ordinary derby lover like me can turn their comments in trash.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

cuba"s classic chef de race — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 02:11:17 GMT

MY friend hasking. probably the bloggers are getting confuse now but one hope can be the 81 beyer speed figure by mine that bird before he won the derby with a 105!!!. so pay attention to hidden class because the top contenders this year are worst then last year in my opinion,the early betting can take you to both the hell or paradise but talent and expertise are not the same thing the expert learn from somebody else the talented is a creator. a slow pace can make you look like secretariat and a fast pace can make you look like a sprinter,so is better to open your mind and try not to stumble with the same stone Again.

re: Derby Dozen (video) - January 29, 2013 - Presented by Shadwell Farm

Plod Boy Phil — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 01:40:10 GMT

Far from ready to coronate Flashback yet. Let's keep in mind that he beat four horses after being a length clear in a moderate 1st quarter. Two of those had only perform well in ideal settings for closers (1 and 4)and the other horse is just a horse.

They all look good when winning under a perfect set-up. If and when this one gets pressured in a real race, we'll find out what he's make up really is. Imagine a 46 second half mile with pressure on both sides with 18 others chasing him......how easy will 10f be then?