February 1st, 2010

re: February 1st, 2010

JerseyBoy — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:07:46 GMT

There have been lots of comments about horses trained by Pletcher.

It still remains a fact that no trainer has saddled more than one Kentucky Derby winner since 2000.

It also remains a fact that Pletcher is one of the leading trainers in the world.

It is also a fact that if trainers were judged by their wins in a single race run once a year for 3yos only, they would nearly all be failures.

It should be noted, however, that some shrewd people made a killing betting on Super Saver.

One of Pletcher’s constant critics on this blog, after extensive pedigree analysis, once touted a 4yo to win the Kentucky Derby. Now he considers himself qualified to pass judgment on Pletcher’s supporters.

re: February 1st, 2010

Footlick — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:43:52 GMT

Armaan- Perplexing that they wouldn't even nominate those two. I've never heard of Sahara Kingdom and Fareej. Are they just maiden winners? Does Sheikh Rashid have any 3 yr olds? I know he has Richard's Kid and Ready's Echo, but they are older. I try to find out about his horses, but not alot of information is out there.

re: February 1st, 2010

Footlick — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:39:22 GMT

I would assume it would be rather devastating for the bit to break. It reminds us of how important the jockey is, especially on an inexperienced horse. Luckily both horse and jockey are fine.

re: February 1st, 2010

LDP — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:53:39 GMT

Saratoga AJ,

The colt's bit broke, not many horses, especially a thoroughbred, have a cool enough head to sit through that. Contessa said the colt is normally level headed, so it would make sense that the cause of 85 bolting was the bit breaking.

re: February 1st, 2010

Armaan — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:06:16 GMT

Going through early nominations, nothing stands out.To me this year is one of those years when we a have a lot of horse of the allowance and minor stake horses.Amongst the colts Lookin at Lucky and Vale of York are consistant g1 horses.I was really hoping tha Godolphin will nominate Passion for Gold and Al zir but none of them is in their eight horse nominations.Amongst the Godolphin nominted horse Vale of York is clearlt the stand out.Other horses to look for will be couple of undefeated horses Sahara Kingdom and Fareej

re: February 1st, 2010

femalefan — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:14:53 GMT

coldfacts, thanks for the information. Maybe the stars are aligning for Ron the Greek, and the sister connection will be a great story. Always enjoy reading your posts....you seem to be very knowledgeable about thoroughbreds.

re: February 1st, 2010

Coldfacts — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:05:26 GMT

Femalefan,

If you like Ron The Greek then you should be pleased with the return performance of Musket Man in the Super Stakes at Tampa Bay Downs. Musket Man’s dam is a full and Ron The Greek dam are full sisters. I do not have all the Kentucky Derby history but it must be historic for two sisters to have produced two derby contenders in consecutive years. Ron The Greek appears to have inherited the stamina of the A.P. Indy line and is a serious horse. It is interesting to note that Musket Man won his first five races at four or five different tracks. RTG has won all his races at different tracks.

Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex were both named based on individuals the owners were connected to. The name does not make or break a horse. However I hate name that have been reused numerous times. Dublin was purchased for $525K and the name Dublin was used 19 previous times. I find it difficult to understand why anyone would spend that sort of money and select a name that has been used so many times. Dunkirk was purchased for $3.7M and the name Dunkirk was used 9 previous times.

Ron The Greek is a May foal and he is only going to get stronger as he matures.

marktoothaker

Mine That Bird was purchased for $9,000 and his first victory was in a Maiden Claimer.

re: February 1st, 2010

marktoothaker — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:43:16 GMT

I know this horse probably has no shot of becoming a Derby horse but hats off to Peppi Knows this is a horse Legacy sold at Kee and was a mere 6500 yearling. This is one of the things I love about this business is you never know where a good horse is going to come from. Derby Dreams still alive at this point for his connections. Best of luck

re: February 1st, 2010

Footlick — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:05:24 GMT

Unfortunately- it was cancelled by a defective track, but I liked Caracortado and Macias. We'll see next time. Maybe they will all ship out to prep or ship to GG.

re: February 1st, 2010

femalefan — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:21:49 GMT

Been watching the comments about horse names, particularly about Ron the Greek (who I personally like in the Derby). Many horses are given their names for sentimental reasons, which I have been reading is the reason for Ron the Greek's name. Article in the Blood Horse talks about the horse being named by the owner for a dear friend of the owner who went to visit the colt almost every day since was born. Unfortunately the friend died before he could see the horse run in a race. By the way, the friend was Greek and his name was Ron.

re: February 1st, 2010

Saratoga AJ — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:19:40 GMT

Eightyfiveinafifty turned in a headcase performance...bolted, went way wide entering the far turn and tossed Chavez at 1/5. Contessa has some work to do!

re: February 1st, 2010

mz — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:44 GMT

Yup, Coldfacts. I meant broodmare sires. I guess the lack of snow up here got me all dazzled and confused.

As an aside, BloodHorse staff: what do you report on when everything in the east is shut out and (yet again) Santa Anita has water problems and is closed?

Whatever happened to those Mule races anyways?

re: February 1st, 2010

Zookeeper — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:20:30 GMT

Coldfacts,

Thank you for making my day re: a Tiznow's offspring chances of ever winning the Derby. If and when this happens, I will be one crazy fan!!! :)

re: February 1st, 2010

Coldfacts — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:17:35 GMT

Steve,

I will be paying close attention to Macias whom I think will be the winner of the Robert Lewis. The colt is showing the sort of tactical speed that is not consistent with his pedigree. His sire Purge was effective at a mile and but his dam line contains a ton of stamina. His dam Azelna was sires by Tropular a son of the brilliant Troy. This is the second time I have seen the Troy dam line featuring on the derby trail. The first time was in the pedigree of unfortunate Street Cry. Street Cry’s dam Helen Street was an Irish Oaks G1 winner who was sired by Troy. It appear Troy has passed on a lot of his stamina to his offsprings. His second dam was sired by Miswaki who was dam sire of the great Daylami. The third dam was sire by Forli known for siring 3 times HOY Forego. Fourth dam sired by 1970 English Triple Crown winner Nijinsky.

Under no circumstance should this colt be recording a time of 1:08 plus for six furlongs (Jack Goodman Stakes). This is a rout horse that is spiriting. There is obviously a lot of turf pedigree in the dam line but his should suite the Pro Ride surface. The distance of the Robert Lewis will give him a chance to relax and sprint home for what should be an impressive victory.

re: February 1st, 2010

Saratoga AJ — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:50:10 GMT

Keep an eye on today's Whirlaway Stakes at the Big A (3rd Race).

3 Yr Old colt Eightyfiveinafifty is 3/5 against stakes winners on his second start off a winning sprint in his very first race in January. Won by 17+ with a 105 Beyer. This horse may be a monster. Leading NYRA trainer Gary Contessa says it's the fastest horse he's ever trained.

re: February 1st, 2010

LDP — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:30:11 GMT

Footlick,

I try to get help whenever I can. Who do you like in the Robert B. Lewis? I like American Lion a lot, even wrote a blog on why I liked him for this race.

re: February 1st, 2010

derby2004 — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 04:11:41 GMT

JACKSON BEND!! this is obviously going to be the most talented and EXPERIENCED horse going into the derby. Wouldve have slaughtered the Holy Bull field if 1., wouldnt have run wide 2., Wouldve been pushed at 16th, 3., would not have broken from the outside post. The distance will not be a problem.

re: February 1st, 2010

Coldfacts — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:59:39 GMT

Mz,

Kindly accept my sincere apology for the adverse impact my post had on your day. I must also express appreciation for the information you provided. If you revisit my post you will note that I specified that I had no records. I never stated that there were no records of certain recurrences. In attempting to verify your information I was able confirm that Chant won the 1894 derby and Lookout the 1893. It appears there was a transposition in your post. However, the sire of colts is not King Alfonso. Chant was sired by Falsetto and Lookout by Troubadour. Donerail won the 1913 derby but was sired by Mcgee. Worth won the 1912 derby but was sired by Knight of The Thistle. It appears you actually meant you for found two broodmare sires whose mares produced back to back derby winners. You are correct. Again many thanks.

Zookeeper,

Breeder Cup Classic winner rarely feature as derby winning sires. Only Unbridled has sired a derby winner to date. That said Tiznow’s grand sire Relaunch hails from the In Reality sire line that has featured in two derby winners. In Reality sons Smile and Believe It were broodmare sires of derby winners Smarty Jones and Real Quiet. Relaunch sired Breeder Cup Classic winner Sky Walker and was the dam sire of the brilliant Breeder Cup Classic winner Ghostzapper. Although the In Reality line has featured on the broodmare side, it has not featured on the sire side. Tiznow is the best chance for the In Reality line to feature on the sire side for the derby. He has the potential to break the strangle hold the Raise A Native line has on the Triple Crown series of races. If there is no curse on BCC winners, Tiznow should add a derby winner to his Belmont winner Da’Tara

re: February 1st, 2010

TCR — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:49:43 GMT

I noticed there are a lot of fans of Ron The Greek after his convincing win in the Lecomte, and rightfully so. I also see there are fans of Maximus Ruler and his gutsy 2nd place effort. Did anyone pay real good attention to the 3rd place finisher in the Lecomte? "Letsgetitonmon" came from the back of the field at the same time as Ron The Greek,but went inside and had to weave thru traffic, and then had to wait for the #9 horse to come over in front of him diagonally in the stretch. He lost second by 1/2 length, and lost the whole race by 2 lengths in only his second start on the dirt. He is by Maria's Mon whom already has a Ky Derby winner, and his Dam, Cafe Concerto has 14 G1 winners in her 1st and 2nd Dams, and 21 GSW total in the 1st and 2nd Dams. If you watch his style he should get even better as the races get longer, as will Ron The Greek. Looking at Lucky is tough to beat, but has he raced on dirt yet? That is not rhetorical...I really don't know if he has.

re: February 1st, 2010

Footlick — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:08:47 GMT

LDP- Glad I can be of help to someone!

re: February 1st, 2010

Matty Downey — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:55:54 GMT

I think you will be aware of Uptowncharlybrown after the sam f davis stakes. Two turns will be where he will show you what a talent he is. I think he'll change quiet a few opinions. I was there for the pasco stakes and watched him run , he went a furlong or two futher and looked like he could run like forrest gump"forever"

re: February 1st, 2010

rilharreguy — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:02:01 GMT

Time and time again I have to agree with Coldfacts! Not because he spouts facts related to breeding like Bill Gates discussing the windows operating lineage, but because Vale of York is your next derby winner. I loved the horse heading into the BCJ and was ecstatic to get 30-1 on him. His breeding is outstanding, he developed a great racing base at the age of 2, has shown he can rally twice in a race, shown he is not afraid to go between rivals, and has won races from on and off the pace. Very few others that are considered derby contenders have the look or accomplishments of Vale. He is indeed the one!

re: February 1st, 2010

Coldfacts — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:31:35 GMT

Steve,

You have not mentioned the third place finisher in the Delta Jackpot Oak Motte. After reviewing the Delta Jackpot several times I think he is a better colt than winner Rule who occupies #9 in your derby dozen. He was clumsy coming out of the gates from a bad draw and was very wide around the first turn. He had to be used very early as the Delta Track does not favor closers. In spite of this he was very strong in the stretch although he had no chance of catching the first two.

His dam Ravens Bride was unraced which make her an ideal candidate to produce a derby winner. His sire Valid Expectation was only bred to 63 mare as compared to Rule’s sire Roman Ruler who was bred to 197. He looks like a very solid colt and if you thing Rule merits #9 this colt is worth a look.

re: February 1st, 2010

LDP — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:06:46 GMT

Footlick,

Your mention of Ubridled Song being crossed correctly is what go me thinking of that, now in fact that may be the topic of my next blog! Thank you for some much needed inspiration.

re: February 1st, 2010

mz — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:02:59 GMT

Coldfacts, thank you for helping me to waste my day at work again -- lucky that I work for myself or I would have been fired by now.

I haven't been able to get at my racing history books (they're at home -- did I mention that I was a work?) but I found two sires who sired back to back Derby winners:

Hanover with Donerail 1913 and Worth 1912

King Alfonso with Chant 1894 and Lookout 1983

but the closest one(s) I found recently are the father and son duo of Polynesian (Chateaugay in 1963) and Native Dancer (Northern Dancer in 1964).

There have been quite a few that sired the dams over a series of years, but not back to back.

I also have to thank you, Coldfacts, for giving me something to do this weekend during the Super Bowl commercials since, living in Canada, I never get to see those commercials everyone is talking about until later, on Youtube.

Here's hoping the GAME will actually be interesting -- I've lived through quite a few snoozers over my time.

And I also have to tell everyone down there in BloodHorse-land that NOTHING IS CLOSING IN TORONTO THIS WEEKEND - it seems like all this winter, YOU guys have been getting our snow.

Pretty fun for us (except that we're paying our snow-removal guy to snooze in the morning).