Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

RVA — Sat, 25 Dec 2010 00:37:48 GMT

I belive a smaller foal crop is a good start, there are alot of marginal mares that need to be thinned out, there is only so many buyers out there and they are very sharp, I think you should be ready to take one home and race it or stop your complaining

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

richard — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 03:19:24 GMT

Hey people were tb owners not qh owners. There is big money in this business. Fortunes made and fortunes lost the lower the stud fees may increase breeding and interest but the flip side is devaluating the market were no one can make money. Qh horses can art. breed ship semen every where and the top stud fee has dropped and there best fees are just in the midway range for tbs.I dont think it is good to drop value of the studs. I think the answers is a better pr program that reaches out to the rest of the horse industry. the industry needs a low class or bottom level that is affordable to an every day person. Most think it is expensive to buy a horse but that is not bad compared to training the horse. Training fees for race horses are twice the rates and in the south 4 or 5 times the rate to get a horse trained for other events.Have a training program for new trainers that want to train horses to race at each track. Have owner programs that bring owners in that dont cost them a fortune up front. Less formal racing programs less government legislation that makes people back off.The rules to get trainers license are crazy. I have my license it seems like forever now, but i signed for a kid to get his license because he will be a great future asset to the industry. The test was less about the horse and more about legislation and gambling then about training a horse.he passed all the horse question and failed the bureacracy bullshit.just example of were the failers in racing r

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

JAJ — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:13:58 GMT

Stud fees have to come down, but I'm not sure that they will.

I am always surprised whenever I see a stud fee that is more than the average price of that stallion's yearling.

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

Bellwether — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 05:27:29 GMT

IT$ A POE MAN$ DREAM RITE NOW...GET READY FORE TWENTY TWELVE BABY!!!...ty...

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

Larry Ensor — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 15:03:41 GMT

1 The median average for Keeneland September 2001 -2010 is around $34,000. The average for the same period is around $89,000 a $55,000 difference. This is a huge spread and very disconcerting. With fixed cost of bringing a yearling to market being around $25-30,000 which does not include stud fee nor pay down on the purchase of the mare the chances of making a profit is still slim to none. Even if the stud fee is free. That being said stud fees need to be reduced to encourage the optimistic nature of breeders to carry on.

2 I assume the people at Market Watch have read Rob Whiteley's op/ed in-depth review of the numbers in the 10/8 edition of the TDN. For those who have not I strongly suggest taking the time read it. In short; Taking the total of advertised stud fees for all of yearlings offered at Keeneland September plus production cost the sale would have to gross around $500 million. $100 million more then the all time record gross of 399.8 million set in 2006. As Rob's pointed out, a scary statistic. The percentage of Keeneland September yearlings that broke even is as follows; 2008 (using 2006 stud fees) all sessions, 18.6%, 2010 (using 2008 stud fees) all sessions, 14%, 2010 (using the reduced 2010 stud fees) 15.9%.

To put into perspective; If the average breeder takes 10 yearlings to market, 1 1/2 of those will break even. 8.5 will loose money. Even if you breed at the upper level of the market your chances are still only 30% or so. 7 out of 10 will loose money. And only 3 break even. I am sure others will look at the numbers differently. But no matter how you extrapolate the data the numbers to not work and will not support the argument that lower stud fees will save the day.

3 As Troy Levy pointed out and we all know more owners creating more demand is the only answer. More owner breeders is an easy argument but considering that a good yearling can be bought for less then production cost why would anyone breed. Most of the mares we board for clients are owner breeders but that have put us on notice that then may not continue for this reason.

4 With the lack direction, a central governing body, and a non existent PR program. Attracting new owners is very difficult. Owners by in large don’t expect to show a profit with their racing stable. But they would like to think that they have a chance of breaking even and with today‘s purse structure and training cost that is near impossible. They don’t mind loosing money as long as they have fun doing so. And today’s racing model and management fail to provide the fun. As an old client of mine who no longer has race horses said; I went to LasVegas lost a bundle and enjoyed every minute with no regrets. Reinvent the fun and the owners and bettors may come back.

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

katethegreat — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:41:27 GMT

Middle to low stud fee horses will remain at 2009 prices. Top horses will remain or increase stud fees.

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

kenek — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:48:08 GMT

For the most part, I feel stud fees are realistic. Initially set based on racing performance and pedigree and later based on racing performance of the offspring. Way too many horses are being produced for the sales ring and you can't have buyers with deep pockets for all of them. Breeders need to take resposibility and breed only horses they are willing to take all the way to their racing careers in the event they don't bring a realistic price based on their initial investment.

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

Ian Tapp — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:03:39 GMT

Given that the number of mares bred continues to fall, top-level stallions must compete for a smaller number of potential mares. Premier stallions will maintain or even slightly increase their fees to secure elite status and avoid devaluation. Fringe stallions in the $10-20k range are in a tough spot. They have to compete on price, so these should see more fee cuts and consequently better values.

Overall, however, I think the market will cause a reduction in breed-to-sell breeders rather than a huge decrease in stud fees. As supply and demand converge, it eliminates the middle man, meaning that an increasingly higher percentage of breeders are the breed-to-race types.

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

Northill Tompion — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:56:44 GMT

Remember the days when stallions had to earn the right to be a high-priced stallion? Dynaformer, for example. His first years were modest fees, and his runners have helped build his fee over the span of his career with solid performances on the track. Too many "golden boys" are retired with disproportionate fees to their performances. More pyrite than gold perhaps. And somebody has to pay the price: syndicate manager, breeder, pinhooker, etc.

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

Troy Levy-Crown Racing — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:01:15 GMT

I remember the day that owners bought yearlings to race. Today yearlings are a commodity. Maybe we should ask the stock exchanges to trade embryos. We are so concerned on letting certain people to make money on buying and selling yearlings. We should all concentrate on bringing back owners of racehorses. The answer to every bodies question on how to bring back owners? Making it more attractive for people to race. Racing is what made this sport great not about a small group of people flipping horses for a living. Lets get real. Stud fees really do not matter if we race for more money. Bring back the owners,bring back large fields make it more attractive for owners to race. Everything falls into place after that. Racing is the answer.

re: Thoroughbred Yearling Sales Profits Depend on Further Stud Fee Cuts

Steve Zorn — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 20:52:31 GMT

Fees clearly need to fall further, and more marginal mares need to be retired. A foal crop of perhaps 25,000, with stud fees at somewhat lower levels, might make it sustainable for those breeders remaining in the business. Some breeders have already closed up shop, and others should. Race tracks will inevitably cut back on racing days, and we just don't need that many mediocre horses.