What does off the board mean?

He broke from the gate slow, then made a good move in the beginning/middle of the race to advance to midpack, and then just kind of faded. It's alright, he just needed a race! He'll win his next one! I am disappointed that now there's no chance he'll be in the Kentucky Derby though...

I just listened to the radio announcement, since I wasn't able to watch. But the announcer said after that it looked like he had speed, just maybe he was a little green still. Maybe racing with all those others, he just wasn't quite sure where his place was. So I'm not discouraged in the least. Not every horse can come out and win their very first start.

Thanks.

Main thing is he is SAFE.

There wasn't really any chance he would make the Derby this late anyway. Not with this late start.

I'm glad he got this first one over with and the pressure is off. Way to go Nic, you came home safe. Can't wait til the next race.

He got stuck in traffic a few times.  So glad he is safe.  Will wait for his next race.  Love you Nicanor

Although it is very disappointing I will always be his fan.  There are other races but he did the best that he could.  The good things how others have said is that he came out of the race ok.  I wonder how the Jacksons, Michael Matz, and Edgar Prado feel about this.  It is probably very disappointing fot them.  It will be ok and hope to see Nicanor race later on.

I tnink he got boxed in.I think its ok that he got eleventh.I also think he will do much better next race.

I'm happy for him. It was very good experience for him. I know he will do much better in his next race. Its not always about winning. Can't wait to see him run again!

Why can't he race in the Derby??????????????

I still love you Nickie even if you can't outrun a fat man!!

Why does he have no chance in the Kentucky Derby?

Well, I saw the race, and although he was okay for the first half mile, he faded badly at the top of the stretch. Nothing at all impressive, and nothing to suggest future ability. Next stop - Penn National or Charles Town! See you there!

After the race, I heard something about him bumping the rail so he was eased up, but was okay.

Is this true? I just barely caught that being said.

He did just fine. Coming out of that gate I can just imagine what he was thinking: "Shesh where did all these horses come from? I thought I only had 1 workmate..." Basically, he needed this start just to give him an idea of what is to be expected of him.  No one may expect him to be another Barbaro, but they certainly expect him to give his absolute best in any circumstance.  Rockland didn't do so well either, but again he'll get there.  There are hundreds of horses out there people are watching for the next Triple Crown winner, but Nicanor isn't one of them.  People watch him because he has a harder trip than all of the rest of them, and he is special in his very own way, as he has shown so far and will continue to show.  Perhaps his next race shouldn't be a maiden special weight, though I don't know the Jackson's or Matz's plans for him.

And just for those who continue to criticise Nicky Knocks, what about the favorite? Dubinsky didn't do well at all in my opinion.  He blew himself out in the beginning of the race, setting a scorching pace, then faded yet again.  What's his excuse then? Its not like it was HIS first race or that HE was green or anything.

Congratulations to all who competed in Gulfstream's Race 8 today, and congratulations to the horse who won, though his name escapes me for the moment.  Something like Warrior Revenge I believe?

I am sad he didn't run  better but it WAS his first time in REAL competition.  As all of you have said at least he came home safe and we will see him race again another day -- the Derby is everyone's dream but there ARE other worlds to conquer. All of his connections now know which direction they need to go in order to proceed to make him the best he can be!

I've been around the board watching but finally decided to get in on the action.

I heard on msnbc message board that Prado thought he grabbed a quarter and eased him up after that.

Good try Nicanor, better luck next time!

They said on HRTV that Caton Brader talked to Edgar Prado after the race and he said that Nicanor grabbed a quarter and Prado wrapped up on him to save him for another day but that he was okay.  The main thing is that he made it through the race.

okay. I've refrained from posting about his chances to run in the derbt etc, but I just cannot eny longer. I'm appalled at some things that are being said!

Do you people think you are being funny when you say he cannot out run a fat man?

And you know what? Next race he could rally and stun all of you speechless with a very easy, very impressive win.

I'm not counting him out of the Derby yet, unlike a fair weather fan.

I read on Alex Brown racing that Edgar to the TV reporters that Nicanor grabbed a quarter. Like Big Brown.

Dear Nicanor,

I watched you today

I'll watch you tomorrow

And every one of your races in the future

You'll catch on

Maybe we'll see you in next year's Donn...

Safe...Praise Be.....too much pressure on the beautiful boy!  I love him win or lose!

Have been very frustrated trying to find the race or a video..why don't they televise these races? I am sure he was green...will watch for the next one..

At least he and Edgar made it back okay. A maiden race is usually such a free-for-all, with the horses not really having a clue about what is really being asked of them. My experience, looking back, shows that a heavy percentage don't win their maiden but usually will improve dramatically afterwards, or let you know pretty quick they aren't interested. It is the experience that they have, until then, lacked. We're still your rooting section, Nick. Go get 'em your next outing!

The odds are that he will be nothing but a decent allowance horse.  Too many hold too much expectations of greatness for this horse.

what a stiff as I predicted he wouldn't win. Green Monkey hype all over again.This is why trianer waited so long , he knew this horse was nothing like his brother. He quit and faded. Go for a claiming race or retire him .Lets see what excuse they come up with for this terrible performance.

Great job Nicky!

I'm so proud! :D

He looks like he needs one of those sheepskin nosebands barbaro had. He had a rough trip, he's still learning. Can;t wait till next one! He'll win for sure!

How pathetic ~ the trolls are everywhere!  I thank God that Edgar had the mount today, and had previously ridden Nicanor in a workout...he was obviously sensitive to "something different" when Nic grabbed a quarter and backed him off when there was no reason to go on AND to save him for another day!

Nicanor and Edgar ~ YOU BOTH ROCK!

Expectations were high for sure, but he looked relaxed,(maybe to relaxed) and he seemed to have early speed.  But geez people, it was his first time out and he has been slow to mature. We can really see that now. My money is going to be on Lentenor though.  He looks like he may be the better horse in the long run, but I bet Nic will win some money in his career!  Stay safe buddy, we don't want to lose you!

Would everyone who keeps saying, "DerbyDerbyDerby" please get real?  Sure, it would be a nice fairy tale, but that was NEVER the goal with this colt, since he was a late developer! I'd rather see him bypass the whole Triple Crown circus, stay sound, figure out what this racing thing is all about, and maybe thrill us for 2-3 years.

And let's no one rush to judgment yet; there's not much to infer from a green horse losing his first race.

Okay it wasn't the race we had all hoped for.

But he got home safe.  MM will make sure to check his feet carefully.

All in all an okay day.

Nic could easily be ready to take on all tigers of this spring in the Travers and win.

With this late a start we might even see him race as a four year old!

Basically, he clipped himself, Edgar felt it and eased him up to "save him for another day."  He was coming on really well until that happened.  Thank God, Edgar was riding him!  

After what happend to Edgar's last Jackson mount, Peter O, he was taking no chances with Nic!

God Bless you Nicanor!

Sounds like Nic may have used this as a learning experience, which is EXACTLY what these baby races are.......NOTHING MORE!

I'm not disappointed or upset or angry or even mildly surprised. What was everyone expecting?? A mile in one minute flat?? GOOD GRIEF, GUYS!! Lighten up a little and see this debut for what it was....a group workout in the only warm spot in the country.

Good news that all came home safely. That's the only news that counts.

Interviews are out and Nicanor grabbed a quarter on his first step out of the gate.  That is what happened to him today.

TomF, you got your dig in, you and Betty.  Can you all just go away now?  First, he was coming on really well, 'til he clipped his front foot himself -- he's green and growing still and there was a lot going on on this his first time on a racetrack.  Edgar handled him really well, and Nicanor resaponded really well.  Edgar protected him and we are all very grateful for that.    

the very fact that nicanor made it to the starting gate is an accomplishment. it would have been nice to have seen the race but it was no where on any cable i get. i don't care that he finished off the boards, he was taken care of by his jockey and came back sound. as for the triple crown route, it is grueling on horses this age and i do not think that "nick" will be heading in that direction. he epitomizes the hopes and dreams of all of barbaro's fans. breeding isn't always a guarantee of success on the track. i hope to see him race in person and will root for him because of all the connections that got him to where he is. the fob's have done such great things in helping raise awareness to the horse slaughter issue, and laminitis research. interesting...secretariat(laminitis was his undoing) was a coin toss between claiborne farm and christopher chenery...the full sister to secretariat(claiborne's toss) never did a lick on the track. i never try to expect too much but every january, i start dreaming of a triple crown winner. i am a fool for all horses...    

" I am just Happy he is safe" There will be other races on other days.

hope he heals up well and gets to try again. everyone shouldn't give up on him yet.

I was wishing him the best; but he is slightly built; he was well places and in a nice position going down the back side. he tired so badly he could have bleed. don't know if he was on lasix. i defintely see improvement coming.

YAY NICANOR!!!  He's run his first race, and while it wasn't all that we had hoped for, what more could we expect?  Here's what I think happened.  He stumbled a little at the start, then rushed up to the middle of the pack.  Meanwhile, the pace was really fast, and so he must have been flying in the first quarter if he went from last to mid-pack, and the official first quarter was 22 seconds!?!?!  Basically he acted like a green horse, but I think that since he had the ability to go so fast in the beginning, make a run, then grab a quarter, all in all it was a good debut.  He acted just like what he is-a learning, green horse.  Next time he'll be older, more mature, and better.  I have faith he'll win!!!!  <3 you Nicanor!!!

Secretariat lost his first race. It happens. Nicanor is a green colt who has not been training on the racetrack, but at a training facility. He grabbed a quarter when breaking from the gate and still showed some serious early speed before his jockey backed off when feeling something wrong with the colt. All in all, I'd say that was a good learning experience. Nicanor may or may not be a stakes class horse, but this debut was hardly discouraging.

It was not all that bad for a first outing at the given distance. He did show some speed after a slow break. Most Dynaformer foals are not precocious racers; they take a while to mature as runners. Barbaro was a major exception to that general trend. The Jacksons themselves have said that Barbaro was a miracle. Nicanor did okay for a first starter; especially if it is correct that he grabbed a quarter. We still have lots to look forward to in his career!

Just read in an article where they interviewed the Jacksons and they said that they will later run him later on in February.  They also said that his first race was just to get him used to racing.  The bad thing is that Nicanor actually did get hurt.  They believe that it is minor injury and will have to wait and see what Michael Matz says.  Like how everyone else has been saying he did trip causing him to injure his right hind leg.  Sorry to say it but Nicanor seems to be hurt kind of badly.  Will keep everyone updated to how bad his injury that he got after the race is.

I have to agree with carolb I can't believe what people are saying about Nicanor sure he had a hard time and Edgar Prado did an excellent job and for your information Green Monkey grabbing a qaurter is not a terrible I'd rather see that he was pulled up then injure himself or be euthanized on the track like Eight Belles or another horse might have been and it's not uncommon for a horse to lose his first start look back in history and you'll find plenty of champs and stakes winners that lost their debut or several races for that matter before they really got going. Loom and Seabiscuit or the early career of Cigar. So for all you nay sayers out there I hope he does prove wrong someday soon. He may not be a champion someday or even like his big brother but nobody expects that and anyone who does needs to relax and back the heck off.

I am very proud of him, he learned a lot in his Maiden Race, it is a stepping stone and he is safe and sound I say BRAVO!!!!!

For Big Red: : ) I'm glad someone mentioned that. There is still hope. All is not lost.

I was disappointed that Nic didn't do a little better, but he is still young - I believe even Secretariat didn't win his first race. I think the trolls and the fair-weather fans forget that at this age, these horses are still babies. Nic showed guts coming up in the middle of the pack after stumbling, and Edgar handled him just right. At this stage in his career, it's enough that he got some experience and came home sound.

Hey Nic--You did Great. I'm proud of you. Whatever, I'm just glad you got your 1st race over with. I love ya Nic, you're the best!!

The race notes from equibase say that Nicanor stumbled and bumped with Andiron at the start. From the poor quality replay that I got to see I didn't see that but it looked he got to experience a lot for the first time. Someone else said he bumped the rail? I still have hopes for him anyway, hopes that he will continue to race and improve. Raspberries to all you nah sayers!

Very Impressive!  Yes he didn't place, but watch him in the race...he listens to Edgar, he moves up when asked, his ears were up and forward, he wasn't intimidated.  If in fact he grabbed his heel coming out of the gate that easily could be the reason for him not finishing better.  He is in the BEST of hands and remember this was his first start!

To:2 TIME PLAYER:

YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING REGARDING HORSERACING. IT'S HIS FIRST RACE,MANY GREAT HORSES HAVE BEEN UNIMPRESSIVE IN THEIR DEBUT. WHAT MAKES YOU THE EXPERT? INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOU COULD SEE A HORSE WIN 50 IN A ROW AND STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT! I DON'T BELITTLE ANY HORSE THAT LAYS HIS OR HER LIFE ON THE LIFE FOR THE PEOPLE'S ENJOYMENT! IF YOU'VE GIVEN UP ON HIM FROM ONLY ONE RACE THEN YOU AREN'T A TRUE FAN ANYHOW!

I didn't get to see or hear the race, but caught the video here, on Bloodhorse. Barbaro{2006}; I agree, he seemed a little overwhelmed with all those other horses in the gate. I also thought that when he was in the middle of the pack, it seemed as though a light bulb went off in his head and was looking to barrel right through the horses in front of him before Prado eased him up. I'm sure he'll do MUCH better in the next race. Just glad he came home safe.

Definately a good learning experience & I have to agree w/ Mara.  The KY Derby, while many hoped for a miracle, it was not going to happen.  I doubt it was even really on the radar.  He's got lots of time to learn, develop, and hopefully many races ahead.  It's quite common for those by Dynaformer to be late maturing, so I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't show much until his 4y/o year.  I think Barbaro was quite the exception to the rule.  I've heard Nicanor is quite tall, close to 17hh?  If that's true, it can take awhile to get himself together.  I have a 5y/o TB mare, former racer, about 17hh, and she is just sarting to figure out how to get herself collected, where to put those big, long gangly legs - until now she's been kind of like a big gawky teen.  And, as for today's race, it's hard to determine anything  regarding talent or potential after the reports of him grabbing a quarter during the race (or leaving the gate - I've heard both) and Prado wrapping up on him.  That can really throw some horses off their game, especially one as young and green as Nicanor, and I'm sure it didn't feel to good.  I am somewhat glad he lost, as hopefully it will show that he is simply just a horse, not the second coming of Barbaro, and maybe expectations for him will become a little more realistic.  But as I said, who knows what his potential really is yet - a grabbed quarter during his first race, a full field of maidens, makes it hard to draw any kind of real conclusion.

Nicanor had a rough trip from the start. He stumbled at the start, then had to sprint to the pack so he could get in position, and then boxed in. By the end, he just had nothing left. It was no one's fault, plus, it was just his debut. I'm positive the next start he will he much better. He still was green and has a lot of learning to do still. Plus Prado knows what he's doing and he protected him. The most important thing is that he came out uninjured and healthy. I still have faith in him making the Kentucky Derby.

Nice to see him race into contention after getting all that dirt in his face.  Perhaps grabbing the quarter is a blessing is disguise; he'll have to take some time to heal that but he'll be mentally more mature and physically stronger when he races again.   Renmember this is a late maturing line.

Hey, did anyone else see those kids/ young people with a KITE on the bench near the gate?  Who would be stupid enough to bring a KITE to the racetrack?!

Don't worry Nicanor you still did a great job. Even great horses like Riva ridge and charismatic dident win there first races. But keep trying it will come.

Nicanor is a BIG, (17 hands) good looking colt.  He didn't break all that well.  He raced into contention during the first half mile making up several lengths.  He was moving very well between horses and inside the quarter pole he began to fade.  Edgar wrapped up on him and he cantored home.  It's going to take a little work.  He is a big horse and just getting his legs underneath himself when he runs takes some coordination.  HE IS A NICE colt.  We'll see how nice, but Nicanor will be fine.  I'm sure the connections appreciate everyone's support.  It was a lot of fun and a day full of anticipation.

But even in losing, Secretariat showed he had what it took to be a great champion.

"Sounds like Nic may have used this as a learning experience"

And not taking sides here, but a lot of the horses out there were using this race as a "learning experience". It's like the football coach who blames the lose on the fact the field was wet...

(Yeah coach, and it was alot wettter for you than the other guys.)

The real question though, if this horse was injured at the start, why did it take the jockey so long to pull him up? Will the injury be all the worse for that?

Like I say, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but these are questions that should be addressed.

TvNB

I think it was to soon for Nicanor.  WHAT NOW!

That was a big race with a lot of horses.  At the turn for home, Nicanor was 3 wide and boxed in with horses on all sides.  From there it looked like he gave up a little bit.  That's an intimidating place for any horse and especially so for a first time maiden.  I'd like to see him break better in his next start rather than breaking last and making up ground in the first quarter (which by the way was actually officially 24.33 seconds rather than the 22 reported during the race).  I think we'll be seeing Nicanor on the turf for his next race.

Edgar Prado says Nicanor is so much better than this race.  I will take what a Hall of Fame jockey says a fact.

Posting my ABR comment here....

Let's send the troll to Charles Town lol.....Very proud of Nicanor!  I thought it was a very good performance given the fact he was so excited out of the gate, stumbled, grabbed a quarter and bumped another horse.  I have to voice my opinion - for Nicanor to bolt as quickly as he did, with his head up, to reach the front of the pack, shows a very competitive spirit and that he was not giving up....he bolted so quickly that I was mesmerized by it......If Edgar did not pull him back when he was up front, he would have ran right over the top of those horses....maybe he clipped again there, or, just did not have an opening and realizing Nic was not running right at that point....Whatever the reason Edgar had, he is a remarkable jockey and knows what he is doing....making sure Nic does not get hurt....Give what I watched, I think Nicanor looked like a great horse out there, trying to find his own and showed his "not giving up" spirit,,,,,remind me of Barbaro folks.....win or lose, he is a kind horse.   Spent several hours with Nicanor in May of 2008, watched him work out, get his bath, graze in the field and back in the barn...he was kind, playful and quite the character, but seemed very young.....he seems to have matured wonderfully.....I look forward to watching this wonderful guy's career...saying a prayer his injury is minor...

He should race Preakness day in honor of barbaro

Told you so! Tomorrow you will get to see a real 3 year old in Mr. Fantasy.

You've got to give Edgar Prado credit for easing Nicky up after he realized something wasnt right. Grabbing a quarter would be the equivelant of tearing half your heel off in a human. Can you imagine doing that leaving the blocks in a track & field event and then have to run a mile with half your heel hanging off? Not to mention being bumped hard by the guy next to you. I agree that Nicanor was probably wondering what all these other horses were doing on the track with him, it's a totally new experience for him. Im not dissapointed in his performance, and im grateful that Edgar had the experience to know enough to ease him. He seems to think Nicanor is a lot better then he gave today and im sure time will prove that true. Im sure once he heals from his injury and makes his next start he will do much better, and if not, he will still have a special place in my heart.

Everybody settle down. The horse stumbled at the gate and grabbed a quarter was hussled to get in touch with the field and Prado wrapped up down the lane cause he was beat. He'll live to run another day. That's horse racing, stuff happens.

glad to see he raced, and came back to the barn safe.  I was able to listen to the race and it sounded like he just wasn't quite sure yet.  but it was a learning experience and he will come back wiser and better prepared.  and that, along with a safe return to the barn, is all we can ask for him.  Looking forward to your next race boy.

Grabbing a quarter is a minor injury but it was not realistic for anyone to think he was even going to run in the Derby at this point.

Nicky-Knock had an excuse for this one and if Edgar says he is a good colt I believe it.  Now to see how long it will take for it to heal.  It was a good experience for him regardless and there are plenty of good quality races at Saratoga, NY etc. for him to compete in down the road.  Just get his quarter healing and let him start from scratch again, hopefully SAFE.  Edgar knew something was wrong and did not push him but at least he got a taste of racing however small for the first time out.  I look for good things for Nicky down the road at a later date even if it is not on the Derby Trail. Just keep him aways safe.

No matter what he does on the track, he is a winner in his heart.

I am thankful to all those who support and love Nicanor no matter what.  He made it through his first race and there will be another race where he can show us what he can do when he heals.  Thank you BloodHorse for this blog.

Well it's been an exciting day of racing and yes, Nicanor did not win his first race.  As someone above said, neither did Secretariat  (and neither did Rags to Riches)- two of the best of all time. Nicanor will always be special to me and many others, win or lose. Does not matter. But let's give the kid a break. I think he'll be much better with experience. It breaks my heart that some people are down on him. I love him so much and just pray for his continued well-being and health. Let's just pray that he heals quickly and be thankful that his injury today was minor.

Hey Everyone,

I believe you are going to see some special things from Nicanor in his upcoming races.

He broke very slowly, was roughed up in the first several yards and was dead last in a twelve horse field.

The early fractions were a "blistering" pace at 22.3 for the first quarter mile and 46.1 for the half.  Do you realize that Nicanor made it from last to fifth and was just three lengths from the lead just passed the 1/2 mile pole.

If the leaders were running that quick and Nicanor all but caught them, how fast do you think he was running?

It's obvious all the energy he used to catch the pack burned him up in the end.

A more alert start next time with a race under his belt you will see major improvement.

Let's not throw this guy out! He's green and probably not the horse Barbaro was. But that doesn't mean he can't mature and turn out to be a winner. Go Nicanor!

He probably won't be able to make the Derby because to get into the Derby you have to have a certain amount of earnings. It's the end of January and he doesn't have any earnings yet.

And of course there was a chance he could have been in the Derby.

Look at Curlin...

Didn't race til he was 3-

Won his first race (a MSW)

Won his 2nd start (Rebel Stakes)

Won his 3rd start (Arkansas Derby)

And because of those three wins he had the earnings to enter the Derby.  SO, at this point, it doesn't look so good for Nicanor to be in the Derby, BUT that doesn't mean he won't be in the Preakness!  And even if he didn't win today, I still enjoyed watching him. He looks so much like Barbaro it's insane (except of course for that snipe on his nose!).  Love you Nicanor!!!

I, for one, loved the race! Aside from the fact that he got a bit of an injury, I think it was a perfect first start. A horse has got to get these 'learn how to lose' lessons out early in life, y'see. ;) I kid, I kid. As for the Derby, I honestly don't see the point. He's going awfully slow in growing, and what if he's...you know...molasses on dirt? There are just too many factors, and the Triple Crown is stressful for a horse first off, and for a horse that really isn't READY for it...? I'd rather see him run in other races and see where he belongs over time, with less of a chance of getting stressed too much or ending up with a...an injury worse than a grabbed heel.

I would just like to note that Mr. Prado was awesome today. Way cool, man. Way cool.

For Big Red, he certainly DID show wosome early speed.  Am glad Edgar eased him up.  Hope Nicanor heals quickly anbd that he'll have another go at it, with Edgar who seems to have an affinity for him.

FOR BIG RED, I agree with every word you said.

CD, he WAS on lasix, didn't bleed.  Clipped himself and was eased up by Edgar after a valiant try to catch up with the pack (and he DID).  Edgar just couldn;t find a hole, so he drew him outside and eased him up, to "save him for another day.:  Bless Edgar!!

i felt he lost cause of the big field the slow pace he bobbled at the start a lit of excuses thier so you people can put a lid on saying charles town and claimer cause god knows your one . he got screwed and thats how the game is. this is going to happen he was clearly overbet and i lost confidence there i see him as the even money favorite and i was like forget it. but he showed signs of his brother when he tugged himself up the rail with edgar restraining. i feel edgar not the best jock but a good jock. he wont go to the derby cause he wont have enough graded earnings to get in but he does have time. but my opinion is that hes unlikely to go.

Sweet Jesus, some of you are so ignorant of racing. Nicanor was NEVER going to the derby.

good. im glad he finished last.

The first race is out of the way. It sounds like he had quite a rough go of it. I hope he heals up quickly & has a long & successful career. Thanks to Edgar Prado for a professional ride, and love to Nicanor.

Considering the situation Nicanor did just fine.  He suffered a mild injury early and was behind.  He showed some good competitiveness IMO getting back in the race, but that takes a lot out of a horse.  

I would like to request some of the Barbaro fans to take the time to learn a bit more about the sport.  Michael Matz is not a trainer that has his horses cranked up for their first race.  He's 4% with first timers.  You can find this information in the Racing Form.  Expecting or even wishing for Nicanor to be a Derby horse is crazy.  He's months behind and to push him there would be a big mistake.  The horse will tell the Jacksons and Matz what to do.  Relax...follow the horse and enjoy his career.  There is so much more to racing than the Triple Crown.

Don't be too hard on the horse.

I don't know how many of you have ever seen the horses break from the gate right in front of you, but it's a lot more energetic than it looks on TV. They go from standing still to running full stride in a very short distance. It is very easy for a horse to step on one of its front heels with a back foot. Sometimes it's just a scuff. Sometimes part of the heel is actually severed. It can be very painful.

According to the reports I've read, Nicanor grabbed a quarter (stepped on his own heel) at the start and stumbled slightly. Good news, he didn't hurt himself too badly.

Bad news, it did affect his race.

He's also a maiden. This was his first race. He has no doubt worked with groups of horses and he has no doubt broken from the gate with other horses, but practice and racing are two vastly different things.

So don't be too hard on the horse. There were twelve maidens in that race. Only one of them won. The number of horses that win their first time out is very small, even among the great ones.

There will never be another first race, so many steps were taken in the right direction.

Only time will tell whether he's a claimer, a good horse or a great one that experienced a rough start.

But for goodness sake, the journey is why we all follow this thing.

Heres a good article about the race. They have statements from Matz and Prado and a really nice picture of Nicanor.

www.thoroughbredtimes.com/.../Nicanor-grabs-quarter-in-debut-finishes-tenth.aspx

Can you imagine anyone giving up after your first shot at something?  Regardless of what kind of racehorese Nicanor will eventually be deemed, it's a foolish call to think the entire story is told on the first page.  

We're still in for a ride.  I put a strong wager on him at my racetrack, lost the money but it supported the racetrack and showed support of a horse, bloodline and connections I am hardly writing off.  So I put my money where my mouth was, and I am still in the game with him, and will certainly not call it a day.  

There is more to come and it will be nothing less than interesting to take the risk and the ride !!!!

Go Nicanor ! The ice has been broken.  Learn and come back and show us more.

If it hadn't been for the poor break from the gate and Nic nicking his front hoof we just might have seen a WOW! race.  Who knows?  He sure tried to get there.  I've got a feeling he's going to be a good one, today we saw a young green colt in his first race who ran into a little trouble.  We also saw some heart, looking forward to his next.

There was SO much hype surrounding Nicanor's race.  We were all excited.  But we all knew, he wasn't Barbaro, he's Nicanor and he was going to do his very best and that's just what he did.  Despite the injury, he still made that move to mid pack and responded well to Edgar.  He has an enormous amount of potential.  He's going to have a great career.  I'm thinking it's going to be Lentenor in the Derby next year.  Way to go Nicanor!  I'm so proud of you.

what a disappointment 10th of 12.... Barbaro would of ate this field up lets put all this nicanor talk to rest he's just an average horse... or maybe lets gear some of this nicanor talk to were it needs to be... lets make horse racing an elite sport that EVERYONE can understand and enjoy....

That was not a good race.

Looking at the tiny video on my computer, he looked like he was rushed off his feet (by himself) and tired in the turn.  Prado was "scrubbing" on him at about the 1/4 pole (1/4 mile from the finish line) but got no response at all.

He looked very uncomfortable (mentally, more than physically) running the whole way, probably because he was running too fast.  His head looked to be too high, so don't know if Prado was trying throttle him down.  Maybe he didn't get hold of the track.  He ran very green.

I wouldn't think the grabbed quarter had anything to do with the bad race--too much adrenaline flowing during the beginning of the race to even feel that.

We'll have to see how he bounces back from this race.  You want to hear from the trainer that he ate up tonight.  If he doesn't, it means that the race took a lot out of him mentally and/or physically.

A mile race is a darn long race for a first-time starter.  It will be interesting to hear what Matz has to say tomorrow when he'll have a better idea of how he came out of the race.  It seems Prado was very unhappy with the performance.

It's O.K. Nicanor. You hurt yourself. You did your best and we know once you heal, you'll do better! Heal fast big boy!

Chase: for your imfo the splits were 24.33-48.03-1:13.49-1:39.69. Not fast for the track today but they were MAIDENS not stakes horses. Keep that in mind when you talk about times okay?

I watched the race at Rockingham in NH. It was so exciting when Nicanor first walked out with Edgar on his back! I got teary-eyed! He is sooo big! He was kinda acting up a bit but calmed down. As for the race itself, Nic did not come out of the gate well, now I know why, but once he got out he ran quite well and prettty darn fast, catching up with the pack. Then he faded and disappeared. I didn't care about that, I was just praying that he would eventually cross the finish line safe and sound, and he did! So that was good enough for me! I hope his leg isn't hurt too bad, I don't think it is or Edgar would have stopped him completely. I really enjoyed seeing our boy Nicanor! I only want him to be healthy & happy! As for the "trolls", well the favorite, Dobinsky, didn't fare too well and was surely a disappointment now wasn't he??? So what? These are gorgeous animals who give us sooo much. It's like any other athlete, they all have bad days! Love you Nicanor!!! Get some rest!!

As Chase points out, Nicanor made up some four or five lengths in that very fast first quarter - he looked rank, with his head up, for that first quarter, before he relaxed and his head came down.  Looks like his first race was a real eye-opener for him! He was done for by the stretch, and you can see that Prado didn't persevere with him. His foot will heal and he'll come back with a better idea of what to expect for his next race.

I don't think he did to bad considering what happened to him. Not the best way to run your first race.  He looked like he had really good speed when he picked up from last to fifth.  A little green maybe, but he ran well for having grabbed a quarter.  Hope to see him healed up soon!!

We saw the race on simulcast.  He looked to be excited but under control.  He really was looking around and trying to figure out exactly what was going on.  How he came out of the gate showed that.  All in all, it seemed to be a good learning experience.  I WILL NOT get down on a horse based upon one race, neither will I get sold on one after one race.  I was disappointed in Rockland's race too, he stayed in traffic and never fired.  Best to all in their next starts!

 Lightning never strikes the same place twice.I can remember many years ago when the last horse to win the English Triple Crown Nijinsky had a full brother called Minsky and big things were expected of him also and although he did go on to win races he never was in the same class.I hope Nicanor like Minsky will go on to win races even if they are not the kind of races Barbaro won.

at least he made it through his first race and can go again. and thank God Edgar had the presence of mind to ease up on him when he felt somethin go wrong! dont get me wrong i love this colt but i have to go with Lentanor too, Nick's great but theres something about him...i just cant wait to see what Nick can do once he heals up :) and the 'sheepskin thing' would be a Shadow Roll unless someone pointed it out earlier

It was a good first shot at the track.  Nic has a lot of run in him.  You could really see it in places.  But he's young and still learning.  I really think he's going to be a nice horse.  He just needs a little more experience.

Hate to say it, but I don't think that Dynaformer is the right man for La Ville Rouge.

If the Stallion Register photo is a good representative photo of the sire, he is very short backed and long legged. I don't care for these proportions because it looks liek there isn't enough room for his long legs to give their full range of motion without interfering. Maybe this particular dam doesn't lengthen out his foals enough to be bred to something that short coupled.

I've seen the same thing in families of running dogs when breeders try to breed short backed dogs not realizing that the word 'back' refers only to one part of the mid part of the dog that lies between it's shoulders and it's pelvis, and that they do need some length in the loin to avoid breeding dogs that are short bodied to the point of needing to compensate by overreaching or crabbing. Since a runnign dog's pelvis is wider than it shoulders,  at least it can compensate. Let me be the first to admit that I know zip about horses, but it seems obvious that since a horse's front and rear legs travel in the same path they don't have much ability to compensate for proportion problems, so it is just a matter  of time before a short backed horse interferes with itself. The more athletic endeavor you ask of it, the more you speed up the clock on that injury.    

Anyway. That's my .02. And I would be extremely happy to be wrong.  

I got swept up in the hysteria of Nicanor and I am wondering now why anyone would want another Barbaro?Great horses don't finish 10th, and Matz has a 4% win rate for first time starters per one poster on here.

I want Nicanor to be safe, but let him be an individual, not the brother of a horse who had to be destroyed from a horrible injury. I'd rather be realistic that he finished 10th, his trainer delayed his starts for a reason, obviously not good. Let's root for Nicanor, but not keep expecting more than he can give. Maybe he should have run 6 furlongs as a sprinter, not one mile in a 12 horse field. I'd step him down to 6 furlongs, and then work him up from there. If he races again. Maybe he shouldn't.

He was in a tough race...I honestly think he could have won if he had not been injured. Not at all a bad first start especially when the pace was faster than the Holy Bull ran before that race. I understand the Holy Bull was slightly longer, but it was still a very quick pace. Nicanor deffinatly didn't look the same coming out of the gate as he did going in. He went in VERY easy and looked very confident, as he came out you could tell something wasn't right, and that's obviously when he was injured. I can't wait to see his next start after he's all healed up! I will be watching for sure, I can tell he has A LOT of potential! Even though the injury was minor, I hope you feel better Nicanor, and I hope to see you soon!

Tom F and 2 Time~~

You are jokes.

I watched the race and was please with how he did.  He did stumble coming out of the gate, and got blocked in.  I read later that he grabbed a quarter crack.  I admire Edgar for knowing his horse and easing up on him.  I know that Nicanor will least likely make the Derby, but I would rather watch him race well into 4 and 5 years of age.  Maybe he can be our next Commentator.  Better Yet ~ Win the Breeder's Cup and make Horse of the Year. God Bless You Nicanor and Edgar.

To: TOM & BETTY

IF EITHER OF YOU HAD A CLUE REGARDING HORSERACING YOU WOULD CUT HIM SOME SLACK SINCE HE HASN'T BEEN IN A DOZEN RACES,ONLY HIS FIRST. YOU DON'T GET IT,PERIOD!

yea Nicanor......you did just fine, you made it back to the barn safely....when Seabiscuit first raced, all he did was lose, lose, lose.......but we all know what a great race horse he became.  Who knows.....it is very rare when a horse has the heart to win as Barbaro did.....very rare.  I love you Nicanor....you are a true champion.......

I listend to the race and was disapointed. Then I get on bloodhorse and find out he was slightly injured. If Prado knew something wasn't right. And that the horse could do better. He should have pulled him up. But no he had the poor thing keep going. They could have ruined Nicanor.

Today was a tough start for poor Nicanor. He got bumped coming out of gate and grabbed his quarter.

But he was really moving there for a bit and got up to 4th place before fading, so we know he has grit.

He will probably will do much,much better next time out. I just hope it is not too long before he races again. He needs to build up confidence in himself.

He may not be in any of the  Triple Crown races, but it is going to be fun to see what this horse can do.

Everyone has to remember he is not Barbaro. It is unfair to expect to him to be another Barbaro.

He may become better than his big brother or he may not even make it as a race horse. Some horses just don't take to racing. They become sport horses or show jumpers. Only time will tell.

Just stay sound and strong, Nick. We wish you well.

I think he did okay for his first time out... he did break rough, and was boxed in on the rail for a good part of the race... it appeared the first half of the race Edgar was having to hold him in a bit to keep him from running anyone over... that said, he does have the ability to go up a gear when asked, but it just wasn't his day... all in all very exciting... it was neat just to see him step on the track and run... I pray he heals quickly... and again... lucky to have a guy like Edgar in the irons.... as he said, he just didn't want to do anything stupid... save it for another day... which I look forward to... :)

Also please let me add that Nicanor didn't "fall" out he could have easily won...but Prado was smart and pulled him back after he clipped his left quarter and decided to "save him fo another day"....I don't understand why some of you are being so hard on him! He is a first time starter and he is definately better than an allowance horse, give the horse a chance to prove himself! I know a good horse when I see one and I don't what the jacksons' plans are for him but I know he will most likely amount to something especially with a jockey like Edgar Prado aboard. Look at Curlin he just retired and how old is he? Quit nagging about how old he is, it's no big deal at all! And Curlin got 2 time horse of the year! I am sorry but some of you are jumping to conclusions about this horse. Micheal Matz made a good choice by choosing to start him later, and do you know why he did that? He did that so Nicanor could have the time for his bones to mature so he has the BEST chances to develop and not wind up like Eight Belles or Barbaro. Not saying that he had made a mistake with Barbaro...kudos to Prado for picking up on Barbaro's injury in the Preakness! I think with time and some good races under his belt that Nicanor could add up to something, whether it be a Kentucky Derby Winner, Triple Crown, or Breeder's Cup, or even just a good stud! He has potential and I see it in him.Love you and congradulations Nicanor! And Prado THANK YOU for taking care of Nicanor today!

nicanor's performance today says it all. those of you who put this horse in the winner's circle based on mere pedigree should learn a valuable lesson. for those of you who put him in the winner's circle on the first saturday in may, well....

nic did just fine!!he is a maiden..he was really pulling edgar at the start of the race..considering his rough trip edgar did the right thing in pulling him up!!nic learned a lot today and i think we will see a really nice racehorse once he heals from his race..i am not giving up on him..he showed a lot of heart today..

Its ok, he grabbed a quarter, which is painful. He will need a little time to heal. Edgar wrapped up on him when he knew it wasnt quite right. This race doesnt tell you much except he got a race in. He will have to let you all know in the future how good he is. With good fans it doesnt really matter. Hes still Nicanor and still a horse.

Sorry to hear that Nicanor had a some trouble in his first race.  Watched the video on Bloodhorse.  Surely he will be just fine and race another day.  I am getting a little sick and tired of the negative comments some people are writing about the horse.  Why are they so down on him?  I think it is terrific that racing fans are taking such an interest in Nicanor.  Thoroughbred racing needs the fans and having special horses to follow just makes it all the more fun.  Nicanor will probably not be the race horse that Barbaro was.  Barbaro was exceptional and even his full brother can't be expected to be his equal.  So, let the nice people have their fun watching the progress of Barbaro's siblings and the negative people - why don't you keep your lousy comments to yourselves.  

He grabbed a quarter coming out of the gate, according to his jockey, Edgar Prado. Nevertheless, he tried and showed a nice turn of foot moving up on the leaders. If he had not been hurting, the outcome would have been far different. Mark my words......this horse has talent, and he WILL show it in future races. To all the people being negative--I'll bet you don't know the front end from the back end of a horse.

We love Nicanor!

Kathy from Toledo and the cats

Maiden races are tough.  We'll see how he does in his next start.

I just watched the race (it is up on ESPN) and the Gulfstream caller certainly knew which horse all eyes were on, didn't he?

I almost had a heart attack when I saw the headlines "Nicanor injuries himself", thank goodness they say it isn't serious. I can't imagine how the Jacksons and Mr Matz felt when they watched him run, knowing something was wrong and that he should have done better. I'm so glad he's safe and if he never runs again, I'll love him just as much.  For all of you that are bad mouthing his debut, you know where you can go, and soon. He's a young horse that has a lot of promise and his owners deserve all the good luck money can't buy, why do you have to put in your petty little opinions, he's done nothing to you, the Jacksons have done nothing to you, this blog has done nothing to you, we his fans have done nothing to you except maybe love something or someone else and not you. Is that it? Your nasty disposition feeling unloved? Get a life, this blog is all about the HORSE! You don't think he has talent? Fine, go find one on another blog you like.

I actually teared up when i read that he was injured in his debut. I had this feeling something was wrong when Prado wasn't asking him for more. I really think Nicanor can be a good even great horse, but hes needed alot of time to mature, and its obvious he needs more. hes a dynaformer, and they are better as they get older. i hope that his connections give him alot more time before he races again.

Glad that he is safe, and that Edgar took care of him and didn't push him when he knew he wasn't right after the start.  Looking forward to his next race, where hopefully things go better for him.  Love the photo of him and Edgar on the track!

I am glad that Nicanor did not win, not because I don't think he is a good horse, but because now everyone can relax and be more realistic about their personal expectations for this horse.  He did really well as far as I am concerned.  He had a bad start, had the heart to move very quickly into the pack and responded to Edgar Prado well.  This was a learning experience for him and I think he learned that he liked it.  To me, he still looked a little green but he had fire and did not give up willingly.  He finished the race safely, though slightly injured, there will be another race and once he gets his feet coordinated he will do quite well.  Again, he has the best owners and trainer that a horse could have.  They have the right attitude, the horse comes first.

Lets let NIcanor be hisself, as long as he is safe that is all that matters there is always another day .

I WAS AT THE TRACK AND SAW THE "BIG" WELL MUSCLED NICANOR. WHAT AN AWESOME SPECIMEN. IF YOU LOOK AT THE RACE SINCE THE START, HE IS THROWING HIS HEAD BACK AS SOON AS HE CAME OUT OF THE GATE, DISCOMFORT FROM THE FOOT. HE RAN WELL, HE WILL IMPROVE...JUST TIME WILL TELL BUT HE HAS AN AURA AND AWE ABOUT HIM...

I watched the race on cable.  Nicanor, Bless Him, broke quickly and was traveling well - first along the rail.  I could see that his head was held high but he was still traveling well.  When Edgar moved him to the center of the pack I believe he was within perhaps four of the front runner and then he started falling back.  I think the pain of his injury prevented any further progress.  He looked great - he's a beautiful colt and we have not seen the last of his talent!!!  Edgar did a great job of handling him.  Please please, no negatives from those of you out there that look for only the worst.  God Speed, Nicanor.  You will show them all!!!

I watched the race today and was not too disappointed.  He didn't break well so didn't have much of a chance after that. He looked pretty good in the middle of the race like he wanted to go and Edgar was holding him back.  Also, Edgar said he grabbed a quarter and he eased him, a legitimate excuse.  I think he is a very nice horse and will do well in the future.  He may or may not make the Derby, who cares as long as he stays healthy.          

to tom f and all of u other fair weather fans it's obvious u know nothing about about horse racing; u probably only watch the derby and that's it. as for me, i love the sport to the point i read the daily racing form for fun. anyway, u need to understand that his sire is dynaformer who doesn't normally throw precocious progeny anyway. they tend to get better with age. and it was just his first race! and just so u know mr. "send him to penn national", maiden claimers don't bother to show early speed even after pulling a quarter-that's heart!

What do the following horses have in common?

Seabiscuit, Cigar, Eight Belles, Nicanor.

All four had excellent bloodlines.

All four had excellent connections.

All four preformed terribly in their first race.

The first three went on to be stakes winning horses. History suggests that Nicanor will do well also. I don't think he'll reach the very top as Barbaro did. But he'll do well and make us all proud.

I didn't expect him to win last night but I was disapointed with the final result. I havnt watched the race yet but appartently he had a rough trip. If so, a loss is understandable. And plus, he got injured! How could he possibly run well after getting an overreach?

People are being too harsh. I'm proud of Nicanor and I know we will have a win soon. It was his first race. Cigar wasnt too great either at the start.

I took this quote off of BloodHorse.com

“He (Nicanor) is better than that,” said his jockey, Edgar Prado. “I’ve worked him in the mornings, and he showed me a lot. He broke really fast and unfortunately grabbed his left quarter. We’ll just have to see how long it takes to heal, but I know he’s better than that.”

After suffering the injury, Nicanor “wasn’t comfortable, so Edgar just wrapped up on him,” said the colt’s trainer, Michael Matz.

Nicanor stumbled at the start and was bumped. He was eighth after the first quarter mile, but by the half-mile point had improved his position to fifth. He faded after that (VIDEO).

I watched the race with some anticipation,and I'd have to say that Nicanor was not very impressive in his debut.If he grabbed a quarter at the gate,why was he making a move in the backstretch towards the leaders before Prado eased him up? The simple fact is that Nicanor did not have a good start to his career...he tired badly and faded. They need to be honest. Who knows what happens next? He could break his maiden by 7 1/2 lengths or he could be stuck in the maiden ranks for awhile. Its too soon to tell.But to say he got slightly injured at the gate when obviously Prado was gunning for the leaders before he faded shows that there is some fabrication of an injury. Good luck next race and hopefully Nicanor will be something great by Breeders Cup time,because right now hes got work to do.

Couldn't pick up any news at work last night and just got home to see that Nicarnor grabbed a quarter and finished 10 out of 12. Until they have a good look at the hoof this morning there is no way to tell when he will race again. Barbaro was one in a million and the chances of Nicarnor becoming another one are slim. Matz is a good trainer and will run the horse again when he is ready. Hey Man O war didn't hit the derby either!

Kudos Nic, Edgar, Michael, Peter and M/M Jackson. Our boy has great acceleration and proved he has what it takes and a lot of heart to boot. You should do great in your next race now that you know what it is all about.  Love you.

Time for Nic to rest & heal, and, IMHO, he will come back & run a big race, next out. Just like Barbaro coming out of the gate,stumbling a couple races, including the Kentucky Derby, Nic Stumbled & grabbed his Quarter coming out of the gate. He moved well for several furlongs, until Edgar wrapped up on him, saving the big guy for another day. He's alright & he will be just fine, in time. I'm sure Michael will give the public an update on how Nic came out of the race.

Clearwater Charlie & Tommy

As everyone has said, what was important was for Nicanor to get his first taste of racing and come home safely.  After all, the Kentucky Derby isn't everything.  Think back to Cigar, who also didn't race as a two year old, won only two races as a three year old, but then went on to an incredible record--primarily at age five.  Nicanor is likely a late developer.  Let's give him time to try to do that without injury.

There has been too much hype for this poor horse. I feel sorry for him to have to fill the shoes of his deceased brother.

Gisele has a twin sister, should she be a super model too?

I saw Nicanor loading up before heading to Gulfstream, you would have thought the pope was there. Its sad that people have put such high expectations on a horse.

Maybe they should have waited til after he raced to do news stories and such on him.

I feel sorry for the horse. Everyone expects him to be the second coming of Barbaro and if he doesnt live up to those expectations he is a failure in so many peoples eyes. That is totally unfair to the horse.

I wish everyone would just stop and leave Nicanor alone and stop babbling about him. Let him grow and if he can race fine but stop hyping him up. That only leads to disappointment. He is never going to be his brother, run in the derby, win the derby etc...its just BS hype.

I will take what a Hall of Fame jockey says over some naysayers any day.  If Edgar thinks he is better than that race, well I believe him.  

If Nicanor doesn't race again or goes to claiming races, I will still be here to cheer him on.  

Remember some of the people on this blog are just kids.  Please don't put them down.  

It was disappointing to have Nicanor lose, but it is only his first race. I think Barbaro was so special and was great right from the start. But this doesn't happen often and usually the ones that are so good from the beginning and win every race somehow get their racing careers cut short for whatever reason. We really need to give Nicanor a chance. If he continues to get better with each race and becomes a real winner, I think people will be able to relate to him in a different way than they did to Barbaro and his great winnings and struggle for survival. Nicanor could possibly show us that if we keep trying we can get better and better. Every horse that becomes a great, whether Barbaro or Seabiscuit, etc. has something admirable that lifts and inspires us. I'll continue to watch Nicanor and give him a chance. He is a very versatile and nice, cooperate horse, from what the experts tell us, so his best days may lie ahead as he gains experience. As long as he is safe and happy, I think all of his fans will continue to hold him special, regardless of whether he eventually becomes a real racehorse or fulfills another important function in his life.

This was a typical first time start. Although it wasn't a good performance, Nicanor had the excuse of a minor injury. Many, many horses have debuts like this and go on to be very successful. Others have debuts like this and have moderate success or do not succeed. It's simply far too early to tell. The fact that he couldn't debut until 3 and at a mile isn't a great sign, but again, it's too early to tell.

But the fact he went off at 2/5, ridiculous for ANY first time starter, did give anyone who bet against him a nice check.

I've trained TB's for 42 years and learned a couple things. Nicanor is a VERY, VERY  mentally immature three year old (think big kid). This is why Matz did not run him earlier.  Sometimes the only way to test a horse like this is to run him and let him get a little dirt kicked in his face. Usually one of two things happens.  They realize they can avoid the dirt by winning or they don't run at all. A trainer never really knows until they race. Nicanor did grab a quarter coming out of the gate. It was not the best trip for a maiden.  Ideally you want them to have a quiet, safe, uneventful first race that leaves no bad memories. Let's chalk this one up to experience. Next time we'll find out if he can handle the break, get dirt kicked in his face, race with other horses crowding around him and put up with all the hoopla that goes with being Barbaro's brother.

I hate to secound guess Matz, but he should have found a race a bit shorter. A mile is to long for a first time maiden.

anybody who is a serious bettor, really  follows racing especially workouts ,would have known this horse showed nothing close to a bullet and the long awaited debut was done on purpose by the  trainer, he knew this horse was nothing like his brother. Those who bet him did it with their hearts not smart handicapping.Matz had to get this horse out because of all the pressure.He knew the horse really wasn't ready.It'll be awhile before he races again,now that  they have a injury excuse. Prado is good but did you really expect him to say anything negative, is not going to bite the hand that feeds him with anything negative.

Of course he'll run better second time out because it's impossible for him to run worse than he did in his debut!!!!

Come on people, he just grabbed a quarter and will be fine.  It's not a big deal, but can significantly impact or affect performance.  Thankfully, Prado took care of him and next time will be much better for him.  Have some faith.

The Jacksons, Michael Matz, and Edgar Prado are realists. They accept the odds of another winner being born into the family, but also understand that it is a game comprised of the predominating factors of bloodline and numbers.

I think the race showed just how tough it is to get a horse to the races, let alone win it's first start.  Nicanor looked very very green, and I'd bet he learned a lot.  He's a big colt, so I think sprinting would not be a good spot for him.  He needs to learn to relax and listen to his rider.  And even though he trained well before the race, there is no substitute for an actual race when it comes to educating a racehorse.  Grabbing a quarter is usually not too serious unless it gets into the hoof.  And maybe Matz will want to do a little "re-rigging" with him...blinkers, shadow roll, etc.  If he goes on to be a good turf horse or late fall 3 year old, there's plenty of good races to come then.  The Derby has turned into a rodeo stampede anyway.

It is sad that a few of you just take great pleasure in bashing others.  As a former trainer, the race was really not that bad, looking at it from a trainers point of view.  He broke a little slow, stumbled, got bumped, got rushed, made a pretty good move, got a little green around the turn and was climbing, at which point the jockey didnt push him. Then it was discovered he was injured. Bravo to the jockey for realizing that.   I would have been very happy with this first time effort, considering the early fractions too. Lots of great horses never won thier first races. I can guarantee the horse learned alot and will be better next time. From his stature, and from all the statements made, this horse will probably have his best career late this year or as a 4 year old. He is huge, gangly and gawky, and learning. Hence Zenyatta,given the time to grow up, look what she has become.

For all of you hoping for his demise into the claiming ranks, it will never happen. His connections will make sure of that. Should he turn out to be of moderate ability, he will be retrained for something else, as it should be when responsible owners are involved.

Stop rooting for him to fail. Remember, if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all.

My prediction is that within two years Nicanor will still be under saddle ... but chasing after some foxhounds across the rolling fields of Chester County.

jumanji and the other trolls should crawl back under their bridges. For your information, jumanji, Nicanor did not finish last - he was 10th out of 12. So much for YOUR attention to detail. As for running in the Derby, Sam Riddle didn't run Man O' War in the Derby because he felt like May was much too early to ask a 3 year old to run a mile and a quarter. He didn't bow to pressure to put Big Red in the Derby, and I bet the Jacksons won't either.  Thank goodness they put the horse first. Let Nicanor grow into those long legs and get some maturity - it's much too early to know what he's ultimately capable of. I'd rather see him turn out some good races at 4 or 5 years old and stay healthy.  Those of you who want instant gratification had better find another sport to watch.

I think it is impossible to draw conclusions on Nicanor's true potential from this race due to the injury.  For those of you who think it is just an excuse, look at Midnight Lute's 2008 first race. He is an incredible horse, mature, experienced and a Breeder's cup winner; Baffert said he was doing incredible going into it, and finish dead last, why, he grabbed his quarter, so Gomez just eased him.  They gave him time off and he was able to continue training with a patch and came back and won the Breeder's Cup Sprint again, which was incredible considering that he had not raced in a long time. He had had a long break and the race where he was hurt was his first race back, and then did not race again until the Breeder's cup. The point is that this type of injury does impact performance. I love Nicanor and have great hope for him, I think this race definitely will contribute to his mental growth, but in regards to his true potential we'll just have to wait and see. From watching the video I think he looked great, showed speed and was responsive to Edgar. I am sure Edgard new exactly when he clipped his heals you can usually feel it, but most times you don't immediately know if they have done something but obviously after a while Edgar did realize that something was off and just relaxed on him.  I wish Nicanor and his team the best, as well as a speedy recovery so we can see Nic back in action soon.

The best thing anyone could do is RE-name Nic and call him "Tall Paul" by Sam and out of Jane. The very facts of his lineage and siblings are in his way and we MUST get over that. He is NOT Barbaro reincarnated; he is Nicanor and his little brother is Lentenor.....full stop. Each horse gets the genes in different doses; repeat breedings almost NEVER replicate the first. With the older brother syndrome kicking in big time, we are expecting another Barbaro to step out on the track to blow their doors off. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Ask Mr Matz how many times he has seen a clone of a champion show jumper; ask him how many times he has seen a clone of anything! Nicanor is who he is; he isn't Barbaro, nor will he ever be. Barbaro could well have been a "freak" (and don't get your panties in a bunch...the term means that he might have been like Secretariat....a once in a century horse); sadly we will never know just how good Barbaro really was, but his talent was undeniable.

PLEASE cut Nic and Mr Matz and Mr Prado and the Jacksons some slack; PLEASE allow Nicanor to be who he is and not expect him to be more than he is. Fan expectations for Nicanor have been unrealistic from the day we knew he was alive; fans have expected another Barbaro. What we have is Nicanor and we should be thrilled that, for once, we can follow an entire career and finally understand just how impossibly difficult it is to not only breed a good horse, but also to raise him, train him, get him to the track AND bring him back to the barn walking on all four legs. How many people followed Barbaro from the day he was foaled?  Maybe Nicanor would be better served if we had NOT followed his every mood, meal and poop from day one...........

I did not read all the posts before me, but I would like to say that historically there are no repeats of the success of another brother or sister. So the chances of Nicanor or Lentenor repeating the success of Barbaro are slim. However it is wonderful to see the interest that these two have generated. Horse racing needs a boost.

As I had in an earlier post, Henry Aaron had a brother and his name was Tommie. Clones they are not!!

I have one suggestion for Nicanor.

Contact the Dutrow barn immediately and tell them that Nicanor needs "the overhaul program" as soon as possible.

Some inside information. You just may be seeing Nicanor run his next race on the turf. He will be able to skip over the grass much easier & faster then he does on the Gulfstream dirt track. I predict his next works will be on the grass. GO NICANOR GO

Clearwater Charlie & Tommy

He made a really nice move on the backside after his slow break until Prado got him stuck in a bad traffic jam (he also seemed to go where Prado wanted him to go with that move through horses to the outside, which proves he's not scared to make moves around other horses).  I'm assuming the hard check he was given then is probably when he grabbed his quarter.  You could tell from the photo Bloodhorse posted with their article that he grabbed himself pretty good cause his front right hoof was covered in blood.

He was a little green and it did appear as though he was eased up and didn't slow entirely on his own.  

That move on the backstretch (which was a pretty impressive jump up in placement after a poor start) gives me hope (especially as they were going fairly quickly).  He's got speed.  He just needs to learn what to do with it and wear some protection so he doesn't grab his quarter again.

No Kentucky Derby...but did any of you think he'd be ready for it anyways?  As slowly as he's been maturing I never expected a good graded stakes until late summer or fall.

Amanda, or anyone else, can you tell me how they grade stakes races?

Thanks!

TO: SEC AND JUMANJI

YOU TWO AMONG OTHERS AREN'T TRUE FANS IF YOU SLAM A HORSE THAT HASN'T BEFORE. HEY SEC,WHAT MAKES YOU THE GREAT EXPERT PROCLAMING YOU KNEW ALL ALONG HE WOULDN'T WIN THE DERBY? MUST BE NICE NOT TO LET KNOWLEDGE GET IN THE WAY,LOL.

JUMANJI: WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST THIS HORSE? FROM THE STUPID STATEMENT YOU POSTED IT'S LIKE YOU HAVE A HATRED FOR THIS HORSE. YOU AREN'T A TRUE FAN AND AREN'T EVEN WORTHY TO MUCK HIS STALL!

When he made his move up to the pack, he looked like a freight train!   Nick will be fine and hopefully, those of you who are so critical will go away now.  You got your wish and made your point.  We don't need to hear from any of you EVER again.  Just go away. Please.  

Amanda, some of us are very conceerned.  Will you please find out for us, how Nic is doing?  What the prognosis is and what the plans are.  We all still love him and are still rooting for him.  I don't have any real expectations of Nicanor, I just want him to do what he wants to do.  I love him more than ever and want his health and happiness above all other things.  I  think Edgar handled him well yesterday, and even more, Nicanor responded well to Edgar.  The teamwork was wonderful to watch.  So, as they say, Winning isn't everything.  He came home and, hopefully, his injury will heal and he'll be fine.   Amanda, we want to know how he ate last night.  We want to know everything we possibly can.  We all still love this horse as much, perhaps even more, than ever and are concerned that he wasn't too traumatized by yesterday. Now, all of you negative  sarcastic  ones, please go away...permanently!.  We don't need to hear anything from you again.  We understand how you feel, but this blog is for those of us who feel very differently.  So, go away.  

www.alexbrownracing has some great pics of Nicanor from yesterday, including one walking back to the barn after the race. They are in the message section, with a heading of "notes from yesterday at Gulfstream"

Like Barbaro's Preakness, it looks like Nicanor came out of the gates with a lot of power and grabbed the back of his left front with the left rear. Fortunately preliminary reports don't sound that bad.

I think both Edgar and Nicanor did a good job. Nicanor got himself up to 5th despite the stumble and injury; Edgar got him back to 10th. I wish he could have got more conditioning out of the race, but considering everything we did OK. He'll be back.

I'm hoping he'll be on grass next. In fact, why doesn't racing create some kind of Triple Crown for grass? It's a safer surface; if you want safer horses you have to write safer races. Lord knows synthetic tracks have had their deaths this year!!

FYI,"Off the board" means he didn't finish "in the money"; that is he didn't finish in the top 3. He won't be able to run in the Derby for two reasons. He won't be fit enough and he won't have earned enough money.

Amanda there is something that I would hope you could clear up.  There are other websites saying that there is a chance that Nicanor may never race again.  Also on what Edgar Prado has been saying about Nicanor do you think it was the injury that caused him ti finish in tenth place because from what he seems to say it looks like Nicanor does have the same talent that Barbaro had it was just not his race yesterday.  Do you know also that Edgar has been saying that they need to wait when Nicanor's injury will get better because it seems that the injury is kind of serious.  Do you know anything about this Amanda.

Look, I commend all those FOB ladies for their hard work, effort and mobilization to help in horse rescue - that has probably been the greatest positive that has sprung from the "Princess Di" type of obsessive adoration for the late Barbaro.

I have rarely seen so many posts on a horse that finished 10th in a maiden weight special.  He ran greenly, stepped on himself and faded more quickly than his slight injury should cause.  Prado wrapped up on him at the top of the stretch - but he was well beaten before that.  

Of course Prado talked him up and gave an excuse.  Is he going to say otherwise about an employer's horse and a Barbaro sibling?  Those connections took his career and public persona to a whole new level.

The broadcast announcers faces and words, however, were very carefully chosen and spoke volumes.

Many need to take a breath of reality regarding the shifted fixation and surreal expectations for Barbaro's two brothers.  

The facts are simple:  it is a remote possibility that either Nicanor or Lentenor will ever have the unique combination of talent/heart/smarts that made Barbaro a Derby winner.

You all might have to face the fact that Nicanor will not be a great horse.  He may not be a good horse.  He may just be at best a useful horse - who knows after one race?  But the amount of fan pressure is unfair to the horse and the connections.  You are waiting for a second coming that will never come.

Breeders rarely if ever catch lightning in the bottle twice with the same breeding pair.  The classic example is The Bride - who truly couldn't outrun a fat man - and her younger brother Secretariat.

And yes - Secretariat did lose his first race after being severly mugged by a horse named Quebec - but this is the important difference - he was coming on again and just missed the show spot.  He wasn't fading to the back of the pack.

I have to ask - who are the true fair weather fans here?  The people who can look at a horse honestly and without overwrought sentiment and say "might not be a great one" but also appreciate the talent of an up and comer like Warrior's Reward, or those fixate on Nicanor with myriad excuses for his performance as if he were the only horse alive worth watching run again - IF he runs again?  

I liked Barbaro a lot, loved his Derby and felt very badly that he lost his battle for life as well as his chance to prove his talent in the Triple Crown.  

But I'm enough of a horseman to know that there was no guarantee he'd have beaten a horse like Bernardini in the Preakness if he hadn't been injured.  

Enough of a horseman to wonder if - in trying to give him every chance to survive what most on the backside knew in their hearts was a fatal injury - his connections were unintentionally cruel in their love and kindness by prolonging an invalid's life of confinement, countless operations and discomfort or pain for eight long months?  

Enough of a horseman to know that Nicanor doesn't have to have Barbaro's level of talent - but he and his connections deserve to be free of obsessive fan pressure so they can find the colt's proper level and have some fun in a sport they love.

One of the best things about Nicanor is the size of this blog, not even 24 hours after he ran. It shows there is a fan base out there and that perhaps racing could actually generate interest by TELLNG THE STORIES OF YOUR FREAKING HORSES, IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!

All fans should listen to the words of Edgar Prado -- Nicanot is a much better horse than he was able to show today!!

Someone commented that horses sired by Dynaformer mature late; that's true. Think of what it might be like if Nicanor gets to run at age 4.

How lot did it take Cigar to win a race? I can't remember but he really started hitting his stride at 4, finally winning 16 glorious races in a row across the country and around the world!!!

For whatever it's worth, I was there yesterday, and here's MY take on the race. I did N OT see him stumble from the gate, but from my vantage point, I will let that go. I have no reason to doubt it, or doubt Matz that he sustained a minor injury in that fracas.

However, from there, I did not see (and again, all JMOs) where he was "rushed up", but rather I saw a rank  horse. Not terribly so, but he did seems a bit...excitable. Not unusual from a debuting horse.

He started to clearly back out of the entire thing before they entered the far turn, and he APPEARED to be backing up on his own, as opposed to being eased.

He came right past me at the wire, in an easy gallop and did not seem to be in ANY distress whatsoever, nor did Prado appear concerned, or that he was easing him in any detectable manner. And frankly, thank God for that, given what happened to Barbaro, the last thing anyone needed in Nicanor's debut was to see him pulled up.

He came back to be unsaddled, passing directly in front of me, and appeared to be moving 100% sound, and again, not showing any signs of distress or discomfort.

As for the rest...some of his fans seem to be VERY unwilling to accept what appears obvious to some others. This horse did not put out any type of effort, or show any real competiveness (not when it mattered, anyway)...and so from an objective maiden race standpoint, it was not a promising first time out.

That said, he MAY have a very minor excuse in grabbing his quarter, I don't know. As I said, he looked perfectly sound when he came back, and when he galloped by.

He is a big gawky colt, and IMO, and I know a little bit about racehorses after 30 years of involvement, he looks "turfy" to me, much more so than Barbaro ever did. I am merely talking physicality here. Nicanor looks like an stereotypical Dynaformer, and that USUALLY means better suited to turf.

While I am not saying write him off, and of course, his fans never will anyway, I am saying take a more objective look at the RACEHORSE's debut, as opposed to "Nicanor's debut"...they may be two different things.

Give him another chance, certainly, in a cleanly run race at hopefully two-turns...but perhaps don't expect the Second Coming from this guy.

Best of luck to him, wherever his path takes him.

We should remember that the mare, Dancinginmydreams, probably had a worse injury than Barbaro and survived. Here is a link to her story: www.bloodhorse.com/.../article.asp

Her first colt, Dancing Forever, made it to the Breeder's Cup, finishing 3rd as a 5 yr. old.

Famopus trainer Carl Nafzger wrote, and I'm paraphrasing, "If you don't love your claiming horse as much as your stakes horse, you're in the wrong business."

He went on to say that horses only win with "class" but that "class" is found at every level of racing, even here at my home track of Portland Meadows; certainly not just your Derby horses. By the way, these are certainly horses worth rescuing after their racing careers!!!!!!!!!!

How is nicanor this morning? Does anyone know what type of injury he sustained? I hope he is OK. I know they will do the right thing and give him time if that is what he needs. The most important  thing is that he heals before he races again and I'm confident we will hear more about him in the future. Love you Big Nic!!!

I think it's fantastic how many folks are following the career of Nicanor.  Furthermore, he FOB have done amazing things for horses everywhere.  Keep it up!

That said, I encourage some of the posters here to not get all your hopes tied into a Derby start or championship this year.  Yes, Secretariat lost his first start- but that was in the beginning of July of his 2yo year.  He had plenty of time to develop into the Derby (and subsequently Triple Crown Winner) that he was.  Mathematically for Nicanor to make the Derby, he would need to have a perfect series of preps and unfortunately, with his loss yesterday, it is now nearly impossible for him to do so.  The Kentucky Derby is limited to the top 20 in graded stakes earnings.  Maiden, allowance and ungraded stakes earnings do not count.  He would have to win next month (end of February) and go directly into graded stakes competition (bypassing the stepping stone races all horses really should partake in) and then either win one graded stakes with a large purse or hit the board (finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd) in two others- all by mid-April at the latest.  Yes, Curlin made the Derby without any races at 2.  But he won all three of his starts going into the Derby- there was a reason folks were calling him a freak.  It just doesn't happen.

It is possible that Nicanor could still develop into a very nice 3yo this year.  Depending on his development the Travers isn't completely out of realm of possibility.  Probability, yes- he's *just* getting started and from his debut yesterday we can see that he doesn't have the early brilliance of a horse like Curlin.  Remember, Secretariat lost his first start but he was also fourth and not beaten by much.  Furthermore, he was a 2yo when it is significantly easier to rebound more quickly (the competition are either first time starters themselves or barely have begun their careers).  But please don't think I won't be hoping he can!

There have been some bashers on here.  I certainly hope you don't think I am one.  Nicanor's debut was typical of most first time starters who encounter trouble.  And plenty of them have still gone on to very useful careers.  A handful have even been champs.  There is hope!  But to insist on goals that are nearly impossible is not fair to the horse or his connections.  The chance that they will "disappoint" you is too high.  Enjoy the ride!  This is a colt that could be around for a long time.  Myself, I'd rather see him take his time through his conditions and maybe aim at the Strub series next year....which would be very nice preps for some fantastic races as a 4yo...

I read enough Walter Farley as a child to color my expectations of Nicanor's first race.  I was down to earth about expectationas and then the gates opened and although Nicanor got squeezed back (no way to know he grabed a quarter at that point) there was a part of me that wanted him to overcome all difficulites and draw off and win.  That said, the race was run in reality, not LaLa Land.  I was impressed with Nicanor's move up the backside and that he was not timid.  Then he understood Edgar's direction to move around horses to the outside - maybe to relax?  Seeing Nicanor finish 10th was deflating but as was mentioned well before me, many great and/or good horses do not win their 1st race.  I am very happy that he did not get a big injury.  And I look forward to the time he will race again.  I do not have Derby Fever and I am glad Nicanor doesn't either.

Here is the video of the race:

www.youtube.com/watch

If that doesn't work for you, go to YouTube, and type in Nicanor's debut in the serach box, it should pop up

I am so tired of all the people bad mouthing this horse because of just one race.  The race yesterday showed us nothing of the true ability of Nicanor since he hurt himself coming out of the starting gate.  I am quite sure Edgar is riding this horse more cautiously just because of who he is and I am also sure that Nicanor had a target on his back with the other jockeys just because of who he is.  I didn't even know that Prado was on one of the Jackson's horses earlier in January that was injured in his race and had to be put down on the track until I read about it a few days ago.  That did not get much publicity but I guarantee that if anything happened to Nicanor that would not be the case.  MSNBC horse racing has nothing about any of the big races from yesterday.  Their main story is about Nicanor's debut race.  Edgar did the right thing by wrapping up on Nicanor and waiting for another race.  He will be more experienced next time and hopefully there will be a better result.

Cgriff hit the nail on the head when he wrote "obsessive fan pressure."  Clearly, people have gone absolutely overboard about this horse, and blogs like this one on the Blood-Horse feed into that obsession.  Enough, already!

I often wonder if repeat performances of winner's siblings are so out of the question in the race world, why owners continue to breed the same broodmare over and over again. I believe it is because there is always the possibility that a similar combination will recur from a previous success story of a sire/broodmare. Who knows, maybe the broodmares need a vacation between pregnancies. It may also stem from when horses were wild and Mother Nature simply couldn't allow too many numero uno's out there. What stallion in his right mind would want to battle it out with a hundred numero uno's. The stallions would be in constant battle and too tuckered out to mate.  

I wonder how many humans would be able to move up to fifth after suffer a nasty gash or cut to their leg, especially the back of the leg? There was no opening and Edgar Prado slowed Nicanor down. Nicanor will race another day. I still believe Nicanor is special.

I'd like to see a confidence builder in the way of a turf race. Too many things didn't go right with Nic's debut. I think all the connections feel he has potential. He is green as grass and has alot to learn.  I'm sure there will be alot of adjustments for his next race. His connections will bring his potential out-no doubt! Whatever it may be.

Great article and a very fair assessment of Nicanor's first time out -- what he showed us that we don't want to ignore.

bleacherreport.com/.../118223-nicanor-dust-or-a-diamond-in-the-rough

I believe there is more we will see from him, and I am very excited by the story to come.

OK here is the deal.  Nicanor is the best thing that has happened in the racing industry both for racing and non-racing fans.  He has become the most famous horse in this nation.  Edgar did the right thing yesterday.  This horse is being watched by many in Washington DC.  For the sake of all of you Naysayers out there that want to put down this horse, you better think again.  It will take ONE SLAM of that gavel for Congress to oust this sport because of the breakdowns.  Don't for a second think that they aren't watching this horse.  I am here to tell you that they are.  

I love Nicanor as much as I love Barbaro and Lenntanor.  I don't care that he didn't win yesterday.  What I care about AND what Congress cares about is that he went back to the barn on four legs!!!  Darn good call with Prado.  

Some people are getting it!  Apparently some are in the dark.  I am here to tell you that Nicanor is very very famous with the people that will make the decisions for horseracing in the future.  Nicanor is and will be the Nations number one horse now no matter what he does on the track.  If you don't like it, don't post on his blogs.  He has captured the "hearts of the nation" and that is worth a heck of a lot more than a wager.  

Love you Nicanor.   Your big brother is making sure that you will not get hurt.  So is the rest of the "team" in your world.  Hats off to Edgar and Matz and the Jacksons.  They know what is at stake here.  

Fan of Nic

You know what?  I don't think these trolls have a clue what is going on with this sport.  They "think" they do but they are going to be very suprised when they lose their careers and jobs because Nicanor is THE HORSE that is  being watched and not just by the fans.  This is very serious.  You are so right.  

People that are posting bad things about Nicanor are very jealous that THEY don't have a horse that is in the spotlight.  This is the first since Barbaro.  

Love you Nicanor.  

1. The odds of any mating producing one stakes winner are very long. The odds of repeat matings of the same sire and dam producing multiple stakes winners are even longer, but it does happen once in awhile. Matings of Nantallah to the mare Rough Shod II produced champions Ridan and Moccasin, as well as Lt. Stevens, a stakes winner and excellent sire. Nantallah x Rough Shod II also produced Thong, dam of Special. Special was the dam of Nureyev and Fairy Bridge. Fairy Bridge was the dam of Sadlers Wells.

2. Rough Shod was unraced as a two-year-old. She finished 4th in her career debut, and won just a single race. Not much of a racehorse, but she is one of the greatest broodmares of all time.

3. I wish the matings of Dynaformer and La Ville Rouge had produced at least a couple of fillies. With the state of modern racing, there's really no place for most colts to go if they don't make it on the track. The sport is more forgiving of fillies. I'm sure that, especially because Barbaro never got a chance at stud, Nicanor, Lentanor and the new colt will all be at least considered for stallion duty somewhere, but their opportunities will be limited without racing success.

4. Modern racing doesn't have patience for slow-maturing horses, although I'm hopeful this might be changing a bit thanks to the success of Curlin. This is only the beginning of February. Nicanor will not actually turn 3 until March 15. He came straight off a training facility into his first race. Although I don't know the past performances, it's a cinch several of the other starters had one or more races under their belts. Nicanor seemed unprepared for yesterday's race. He broke greenly, was rank the first half of the race, and had nothing left at the end. If he can improve off that race, great. If not, his future doesn't look too bright. That's the hard truth of this business. I used to be as starry-eyed as many of the posters here, but I've seen too many good horses with catastrophic injuries. I've read news of too many stakes winners like Ferdinand and Exceller who went to the slaughterhouse because they didn't make it as stallions. Racing is a cold, hard business. The story doesn't have a happy ending for the vast majority of foals born each year, well bred or not.

Thank GOD for Edgar.  I think that you people that are against this horse need to get a life.  He is a very famous horse with the WORLD!

"He (Nicanor) is better than that, said his jockey, Edgar Prado. Ive worked him in the mornings, and he showed me a lot. He broke really fast and unfortunately grabbed his left quarter. Well just have to see how long it takes to heal, but I know hes better than that".

After suffering the injury, Nicanor wasnt comfortable, so Edgar just wrapped up on him, said the colts trainer, Michael Matz.

I've rewatched the race several times and think Nicanor did a great job seeing how he bumped out of the gate and grabbed a quarter. He definitely has speed. For it being his first race he did a good job. Love you Nicanor and will be waiting for your next race.

Let's be realistic:

smilepolitely.com/.../expectations_are_too_high_for_barbaros_little_brothers

Jim P

So true.  These people that are talking down to Nicanor are just upset that they don't have a horse that is gaining the attention of the Nation.  It is called jealousy.  They need to go somewhere else where they belong.  They need to get a life.  WE know what is up here.  

I don't care that Nicanor didn't cross the finish line first.  I CARE that he is OK on four legs in the barn and loved!  THAT is what is what really matters.  THAT is what is going to count when the time comes.  Believe me, it is coming.  So the Naysayers need to just get off this blog and go to their own little corner of ignorance.  They don't have a clue how this horse is impacting the Nation and what will come out of this.  NOT A CLUE!  

rocknchef

VERY WELL STATED!  

Omg...im really tired of people saying all this stuff saying that he can go to the derby

he's starting really late in the season lost his first race, got an "injury" or that is just an excuse of why he ran so horrible..

Nic, is probably not going to the derby bacuse he needs all the expericnce he can get (including points just to get in)and its just reality he's IS NOT barbaro he will NEVER be him.. maybe His other brothers have more of a racing career..Nic, will be a fine allowance horse as of maybe that..

but i'm not counting him out yett (:

I have just read all of the postings since yesterday's 8th race at Gulfstream was concluded.  My gosh we are sure are a chatty bunch!  I mean that in the nicest way.

I have to say when I watched the video of Nicanor's race (I did NOT know at the time about his injury)I was impresssed!  Yes, he faded badly which surprised me a little but when win, place and show horses beat the betting favorite and THEN I read of Nicanor's injury and getting banged around leaving the gate I was even more impressed at the way he ran and the distance he ran before Edgar realized something was wrong and slowed him down.  That shows guts, determination and class on Nicanor's part and everything we already knew about Edgar.

Let's all give him time to develop -- I think next time out will be much different.  Maybe he IS destined to be a turf horse.  Don't forget that is how Barbaro began HIS career.

Michael Matz will never put greed and money above Nicanor's well being and I predict he has many grade one stakes wins in his future.

We love you Nic!  Can't wait to see you on the track again.

Well, if my memory serves me correctly Secretariat did not win his first race, early on Seattle Slew was lovingly referred to as "Baby Huey" by his trainer and Cigar did not gain prominence until he was 4 years old.  It is regretable that expectations have been high for Nicanor because he is Barbaro's brother.  I believe too many are hoping that he will fulfill what Barbaro was unable to accomplish which is understandable, but Barbaro can never be replaced.  Time will tell just how good Nicanor is.  In the meantime, let us be happy that the horse's injury is not serious and that he will be able to return to the track to "fight another day".  We will enjoy watching him no matter what he does during his racing career.

AudraMarie

I agree with you.  These people that are showing negative signs to Nicanor are doing it because they don't have a horse that has the fame and the love that he does.  They don't know what is really going on behind closed doors.  If they did?, they would tone this down but hey let them keep on rambling.  I don't think a lot of people really know who is watching this blog.  Be careful what you say negative about this horse.  You are in way above your head and too blind to see it.  Do you people want horse racing to continue?  If you do, you better change the attitudes.  

Love you Nicanor, Barbaro and Lenntanor.  You are the bright stars in the industry and without you guys, horseracing will be a historial sport.  Trust me.  People are getting tired of the fatalities.  They are not going to put up with them much longer.  

Edgar, GOOD JOB!

Hi All,

Good article at bleacherreport.com/.../118223-nicanor-dust-or-a-diamond-in-the-rough

Go Nicanor!!

For Big Red

What you say is true.  I want to add something here.  The US Senate and House will be the final decision makers of this sport in the future.  They are sick and tired of the fatatites, abuse and the love and greed for money for the sake of a beautiful animal.  When they make their decision, it will be final.  They already are against this. More people than not are against this sport in this Nation.  

People that are in the industry need to get it together or they won't have one.  

Mr. Fantasy is what this forum should be about. He just won with ease again. This time going two turns and after he wins the Gotham and Wood Memorial he'l go into the Derby undefeated in four career starts.

I wanted to read a lot of the comments and watch the race again before commenting, and I have seen a couple of things.

First, the people who do not seem to know a lot about racing, the ones that thought Nicanor would win the Derby on his way to the TC, still believe that. For those of us that have at least a rudimentary knowledge base, we knew this was never possible. But, the outlandish comparisons between Nicanor and the following must stop: Secretariat, Man O War, Seabiscuit, Eight Bells, Rags To Riches, Midnite Lute and Curlin. Yeah, they all lost their first race, so they all have something in common. But there is also one huge, major difference between Nicanor and that list of horses: Talent. I am not saying he may not be a nice horse, but he has done nothing but be related to a Derby winner to warrant these comparisons. (cue Mike Revla and his all caps response telling me that since I don't like Nicanor I hate all horses and know nothing about racing in 3, 2...)

To the people that were just waiting to bash the fans of the horse: ease up a little. I have been critical of the pre-race praise heaped on this horse, and I wouldn't have been disappointed to have seen him win, but I am not elated that he lost (especially since I didn't have the winner). The day came for him to prove what he was, and while it was not a race that showed his true ability, it did show enough that we know that he is not a champion horse. The race itself was a little on the weak side for a MSW, and, in all honesty, he probably should have been closer to 10-1 than 5-2, and even after grabbing a quarter (a minor injury), he should have at least split the field. Those on the extreme of this blog should tone down the expectations for this horse, he is not going to be a $7,500 claimer, nor is he going on to a HOF career. He is, most likely, going to go on and have a nice, useful career (and for "the Jackson's won't push this horse" crowd that think he is going to be retired if he isn't Grade I material, get over it. If he turns out to be a $50,000 claimer, they will run him there, I am quite sure. Racehorses are bred and trained to run, they are not pets).

What is just sad is that the day after the race the loonies and dreamers have not let reality sink in, not even just a little. Maybe it is because they let their fairy tale ending become more of a forgone conclusion than hope. Maybe it is because they have no idea that roughly 3% of racehorses bred are stakes performers. But most of all, it is that nearly everybody on this board ignored one of the cardinal rules of this game: Hope for the best. It seems that some people just expected the best.

Jim P

Well I see a heart in your post.  Of course these horses are worth rescuing and going to good homes.   It is people like you (a very small portion in this country) that will keep this sport going when it really counts.  It is people like you that need to make noise with the rest of the Naysayers.  Most of them are clueless.  Congress is not!  Who is really going to make the final call on this sport?  You figure it out. :)

Okay, I can understand if you don't think Nicanor is amazing and special, that's your choice. But to say that you are glad that he loses? That's kinda mean. I am sad that he didn't do better, but it was his first race, I'm sure he'll improve.

I don't care if the fans aren't being "realistic." Horse racing is the original field of dreams. They wouldn't be mating mares with stallions if they weren't dreaming big.

And as for the pressures. Nicanor doesn't know he's full brother to Barbaro. He doesn't know there are blogs devoted to him, and that people have high expectations.

The Jacksons have been through the ringer already. They, Matz and Prado will handle the pressures just fine.

Nicanor will make it big or he won't. Either way, his fans won't love him any less, racing will go on and the world won't end.

It's just a horse race, and it's a fun game.

Off the board is not in the top 3. I watched the race and he looked REALLY good for the first quarter of a mile then he faded, he has really nice speed on him and I think if he hadn't hit the gate he would've won or at least placed

well baby boy, You tried and finished safe too...what else could any one want...maybe next time it will be first, but if not i don't think to most of us it matters...if you try your best and be safe that is better!

THE FARMERS

I appreciate reading the comments from some of the trainers.  You have educated insight w/o a grudge against the horse/connections/the fans.  Thank you for taking the time to help a lot of us better understand racing and training.  

Fan interest in Nicanor is the best thing to happen to racing since Barbaro. No, he won't go to the Derby. He may never see a G1 race. But, those who have followed "Nic" since he was a foal now have a sense of what goes into a race horse. They have a richer appreciation than those who are merely interested in the payoff at the betting window or the latest flash in the pan hero. They have experienced the time and effort, the hope and frustration, and I hope, someday, the thrill, that are daily taking place at any given race track for trainers and owners. They appreciate that treasures like Barbaro aren't manufactured on an assembly line, but are truly once in a lifetime horses. And they also know that *every* horse that crosses the finish line is a champion. Nicanor fans, keep the faith! Your loyalty & devotion will be richly rewarded no matter where he races.

anniedixie65

Hats off to you!  Your post is very true and valid.  You are absolutely right!  Matz wanted to give Nicanor time to develop.  So many trainers just don't care.  Baby Eight Belles.  My God what a beautiful filly she was.  Matz gets it.  We all GET IT that love Barbaro.  Apparently not many others do and it is very very sad.  The horses will win in the end.  That is a fact!

Karen,Pa.--Thanks for the bleacherreport.com article. It was a good assessment, well-written, accurate, hopeful, and essentially what I believe I witnessed. Anyone who has ridden horses knows that many attributes and characteristics cannot be taught, but can be felt and appreciated by the rider. What Nicanor showed should certainly not be ignored.

Has anyone heard how Nicanor is doing today (day after)?  Please post any info for all of the fans. Thank you.

TO JENNIE:

Did you ever think that perhaps the sorry state of racing that we see that maybe people,including myself are excited about Nicanor because many are looking for something positive. What's the crime in that? As for all the trolls that wanna set him up for failure and say cruel things,they are nothing but idiots anyway!

rocknchef is right on with his comments. Neither Lentenor nor Nicanor will ever descend past opional claiming, if that far. The Jacksons won't give up control of these colts' futures that way.

This is just Nicanor's first race and he hopefully has many more to come. The Jacksons also have a number of options for Nicanor, but I am sure the horse will improve with more actual racing experience at the track. Whether he improves enough to really be in the money as a racehorse is yet to be seen. He also may have significant talents talents and skills that develop over time that will be greatly different from those of his older brother.Nevertheless, for many of us, he has fans who will love him and continue their interest in him and his well being. No, he is not, and never will be Barbaro, but he is the closest living thing we have to Barbaro, and this, in itself, will always provide a a special place for Nicanor in our hearts.

he is fine...tough start out of the gate then came on to stong to catch up to the pack....we went thru the same thing this year and came back our 2nd race "strong"!!

looking forward to #2!!

Nicanor looks great; he is even more handsome than Barbaro, except his tail is bay not black.  He has some of the same mannerisms as his big brother... the way they both throw/threw their manes around.  Watching the grainy race on the internet, I could not see if he clipped himself out of the gate, or if his ears were up or down, or whatever, but how I saw it was that Edgar MOVED WAY TOO SOON.  Now, maybe it was because he knew that Nicanor has not trained for a mile and therefore could not get a mile and wanted him to get just a taste of a race.  If Edgar had laid back, i.e. like Calvin BoRAIL,  Nicanor might have done better -- he made that awesome early move (shades of Secretariat in the Preakness... alright, back to reality)!  If you listen to the call, Edgar on Nicanor opens the door for the rail-skimming Calvin!  But all in all, I LOVE this horse, now.  It was different to actually see video vs still photos of him.  If God protects him and he is allowed to grow into his body, I see good things for him.  It reminds me of when I saw Tiago (younger brother of Giacomo) at Santa Anita early in 2007... yes, I bet on him, and he didn't show anything that day...and look how well he has gone on to do -- one of the best in a very good crop.

I am blown away by the people here who seem upset that Nicanor has fans.  People are tried of what posters say and want them to get realistic, etc.

Here is some realism..this is entertainment.  We are not negotiating world peace here. Let people have their blog and their feelings.  If you don't like it, there are plenty of other blogs to post on.  

Nicanor is not Barbaro, be fair to him and don't put unreal expectations on him. Just like 2 human brothers are often very different 2 equine brothers will be as well. Nicanor has always appeared to be a late bloomer, Barbaro was not. From what I've seen so far Lentenor will not be a late bloomer. Just appreciate each horse for the individual that he is

"Nicanor had grabbed his left quarter in the scramble out of the gate. 'Grabbing a quarter' is a term used to describe a horse  overreaching with a hind foot and  striking/raking the heel/hoof of a front foot, sometimes causing tremendous damage, just ask Big Brown. The injury was found after the race and was reported as a "...slight injury. We’ll just have to see how long it takes to heal." his connections said.

How much did this effected Nicanor's performance? Only Nicanor knows.

He will get out of the gate cleanly and he will learn to relax and rate with time.

He showed confidence and much courage."

I will probably regret asking this...but uh, ok Stardust, I'll bite; how is Nicanor going to impact a NATION?

That's pretty lofty, no matter HOW one views this racehorse, or any other.

When you consider the fact that the nation at large cares exactly nothing about this sport, I am just struggling to understand such ambitious declarations.

So please...enlighten me. A nation eagerly awaits your answer. ;)

Thank you "Karen,Pa" , for the article, I hope everyone reads it and understands the jest of the story. Yes, things went wrong for him, but it's not all bad if he comes out from under his injury okay. The good news is, he SHOWS PROMISE! I saw exactly what the article said, Nicanor wanted to run, he showed tactical speed and he was fearless. He may have acted a little green but you can't make a horse want to compete, and Nicanor wanted too. He has the Dynaformer fire in his gut, that was evident from the start. The kindness from his mother, La Ville Rouge, is going to allow him to listen and learn. Fire and Ice, thats what he has from his Sire and Damn. I'm telling you people, he is a force to be reckoned with. He is grand and knows it, wait until he proves it. You nay sayers think you know something? Shut up and watch, you're going to see for yourself. Nicanor can run and he can run very fast. Getting those big feet and long legs going in the right direction is goin to be a thing of beauty. Like it, love it or lump it, He is what he is.

david a...secretariat lost his first race. 21 starts, 16-3-1 off the board in his first due to a wrestling match out of the gate. he made three advances in his first race and lost due to being behind a wall of horses...somewhat bad judgement on paul feliciano's part(his jock). this was a large field that nick had and a longish distance for a 1st time starter. he looked rank even after grabbing his quarter...it's all a learning curve at this point as a maiden. prado did the right thing and saved it for another day. as for breeding? you just don't know what will happen. penny chenery once said she wasn't sure lightning could strike twice...riva ridge and secretariat saved meadow stud.

matz is a careful guy and brings his horses to the races when HE thinks they're ready. read bill nack's big red of meadow stable...it is unquestionably one of the best accounts of any race horse in print.

I keep hearing Nicanor was injured... Is this true?

If so what injury does he have, how bad is it, and will he be ok?

He clipped hisleg coming out of the gate and took a hunk of skin out of his front leg. And he bled. He will be better his next start. Probably wont be Barbaro, but should be a solid turf horse.  

Saw the race---he looked amazing in the post parade.  He did race with his head a little high for my taste--but settled in nicely between horses.  Does everyone remember -- I think his longest work was 6 furlongs?  I think I'm right about that...maybe not....he ran very green and I'm sure we will see him again.  He will be as successful as he can and I really don't care if he ever runs in a stakes race--he looked great, he'll figure it out one way or another and I think it's amazing anytime a horse makes it to the starting gate---there are thousands who don't ever get that far.  Go Nic Go.

Please people, I really just think everyone needs to just settle down and look at little Nicky Knocks for what he really is: A green first time starter who is a late developer and had a rough trip.  Realistically, it could have been alot worse.  Say Prado hadn't been aboard and Nicky had grabbed a quarter under a far less established jockey.  What would have happened then? Nicky would have been pushed harder coming around that corner, causing more damage to the injured hoof, at the cost of coming in possibly 6th.  A gain that's hardly worth the risk of a living creature's health.  I think the Jackson's made a good choice running him this late, but perhaps they should have waited until a race came up that actually REALLY fit Nicanor.  A mile was to far of distance, a MSW with 12 was a tough field, and every part of his pedigree suggest Nicky will do so much better on Turf.  Not a long distance like Matz was considering for a possible Feb. 7th debut, but 7 furlongs or a mile on the turf would have been nice.  Instead, I think they got a little excited at the thought of Nicky running a stunning race and put him in a race that wasn't for him.

starburst, I competely agree with you.  The nation is in a recession and this horse, regardless of how his talent may spread out, is giving the nation SOMETHING to route for.  That's what the racing industry needs now more than ever.  These are the kinds of feats which keep horse racing alive.

Personally, I believe that Nicanor will redeem himself at a later date, but not until much later.  Right now, he needs to rest and consider what he learned yesterday.  After that, he'll decide and show in his works exactly what he thought of that first race.  If he wants to do more without being asked as much, that's a good sign.  If his excersize rider has to really get down and hammer him for works as good as he has been doing, I'd say racing is just not for this horse.  Find him a good stud farm and retire him this summer.  He's beautiful, intelligent, and competitive, but it's HIS choice if he really wants to listen to his rider and go on to be successful as a racer.  At the very least, genetically he is worth quite alot.  Perhaps the genes turned on in Barbaro are dormat in Nicanor, but that doesn't mean that is how his offspring will be.  They may go on, they may not.

One more thing: For those who are saying 'Oh well, Nicky will still go eventually.  I always thought Lenny Boy(Lentenor) was more like Barbaro anyway.  We'll be seeing him in the Derby next year for sure!'  you don't really care about them.  All you want is a horse to go above and beyond what they realistically can and show that they have something that in reality they don't.  You don't know what you're talking about in horse racing.  LENTENOR IS A 2 YEAR OLD WHO HAS YET TO BE ASKED ANYTHING OF. He hasn't been worked over any distance yet, he hasn't showed anything special because at this point there's nothing special he has to show.  He's still growing and has alot of work to do before he deserves ANY types of compliments.  Normally you don't even hear of 2 yr olds until fall when they start to make their debut's; the only reason we know anything of Lenny Boy is because he is a direct blood brother to Barbaro.  Facing the cold hard truth though, he probably has the exact same genes as Nicky Knocks.  He's intgelligent, May prove to have some talent, but likely won't be the next Triple Crown Winner.  Actually, I hope he isn't, because can you picture the things that would come from that? Right now whenever you hear of Nicanor, you hear 'And there's Nicanor, a full brother to Barbaro.' If Lentenor proved to be better than Barbaro, why would you bother to mention him?  You would hear 'And there's the nation's next Triple Crown Winner, the first in 32 years! He did what his unfortunate late brother couldn't.'  That's not much of a way to remember Barbaro, as unable to accomplish the things his youngest brother(so far) has.

One last thing: Everyone seems to have forgotten, but there is another colt on its way into our world.  Likely a young light bay colt with black stockings, a white snip on his face, and possibly some white patches around his hooves.  May God be with this young one as he continues his developement and Le Ville Rouge as she raises another wonderful little guy.

Some of my favorite horses right now have been working since last June to break their maidens. If he does well... great! If he doesn't... it shouldn't make him any less lovable. Since it was his first race... and the whole grabbing of the quarter incident... give him time before you give up on him OR throw too many hopes and dreams on him. Both are equally bad.

Gold Academy has raced 6 times and has done no better than a distant 5th. But I follow the colt like he was the 2nd coming of Secretariat. Love him to death. Win, lose, or draw. He is getting better the hang of it slowly but surely. So who knows how many Nicanor might need to get the hang of it.

Just breathe people. Let all your expectations fade away and enjoy him for whatever kind of horse he is to be. No one will every replace Barbaro. You wouldn't want your family to ASSUME you will become a famous lawyer because your older brother did, the pressure you into it. Relax... and go with the flow.

Horses always learn something from actually being in a race. I hope he can keep learning and overcome any obstacle thrown at him.

Jim P, love reading your posts here, and elsewhere.  Thank you for your reasoned writings and your knowledgable information with which you are so generous.  Just wish we could hear more specific information about Nicanor.  This information "blackout" is unnerving.

Cgriff: Right on the money.

I've never commented on Nicanor, but I do find it interesting that any comment that doesn't involve Nic being the next great coming or a sure Derby bet is considered nasty, sarcastic, or fair-weathered. Frankly, it's okay to support the horse, but be also be realistic about his career. That doesn't make one person "less" of a fan than another.

Barbaro was phenomenal. Personally I'd never want to see him upstaged or diminished simply because of my desire to see his little brother come in and finish what Barbaro couldn't. And that's not a slight against Nicanor. I just prefer to remember Barbaro as a champion in his own right. He was a once in a lifetime talent and I'm grateful I had the opportunity to watch his brilliance on the track.

A grabbed quarter isn't a small scratch and healing them isn't quick or easy. Certainly not quick or easy enough to see him ready for the Derby even if he managed to clear all the other obstacles to get there. Here's hoping Nicanor heals well and we have the pleasure of watching him race again.

To stardust:

The people "talking down" to Nicanor and stating that he will not make the Derby are not ignorant & are not jealous, they're being realistic.  There is a 0% chance of him making the Derby from this point.  Even if he had broke his maiden the first time out, the chances were still slim.  Some bring up Curlin, but he was quite the exception to the norm.  He was extremely impressive in his debut at 3, winning right off the bat, and moved onto graded stakes immidiately, mananging to win those as well.  "For Big Red" makes some excellent points above.  It is not uncommon for one sibling to be a brilliant star, while the other to be a solid allowace runner, or perhaps not have the talent for racing at all.  It's hard to draw any conclusions as to how great or not so great he will be from that first race, considering it was his first and he grabbed a quarter.  If he does have any talent, I doubt it will show unil late late this year, or perhaps not even until his 4y/o year, IF he has the ability for racing.  It sounds harsh, but people need to realize there is a strong possibility he may not have the talent to go above allowance level, if that.  Who knows, he may end up as a nice riding horse somewhere.  People need to put things in perspective, stop with the unrealistic expectations (including racing in the Derby) and admit that racing may not be his thing.  As for the whole world watching, and Nicanor being watched by everyon in Congress, I doubt that.  At the moment, I don't think horseracig is at the top of their list - although if we have another breakdown during one of the 3 Triple Crown races, they will once again be on the industry. I have worked in the industry, went to school for years specifically for TB racing mgt, and have been involved ever since - I can tell you that those involved in the industry on a day to day basis and those that are 365 fans - those that watch and keep track of races day in and day out, discuss them, and follow the racing scene year round rather than the activities of just one horse - are only mildly iterested in the race, at best.  For many, Nicanor isn't even a blip on their screen.  On one last note, this board is public, for all to post, to express their views, whether they agree with yours or not.  It is called freedom of speech.  Again not trying to be rude, but what goes on in Congress and the world for that matter does not in fact revolve around Nicanor or any other member of his family. With that said, I do wish him success i whatever he goes on to do - whether it be racing, at stud, or as a nice riding horse.  

JAJ, you're looking at the wrong horse, look a little further back to the yellow 4 towel, he's under wraps.

SEC, don't be hard on the "newbies" who have horse racing stars in their eyes...racing needs them, too.

I thought Nicanor showed a great turn of foot after his late start...hard to see on the 2 inch screen, LOl, but glad to get to see it. Well, maybe it was more like he ran away with Edgar P., but he threw himself right into the pack, split horses with no reservation, then it was hard to see, but on my itty bitty live-screen window it looked like the jockey wrapped him up more than him quitting, when they crossed the line he looked totally under wraps...

I like him.

It looks like he gained a world of experience with the bumping and crowding. And grabbing himself out of the gate really hindered his performance. Once he's back on track, I think there will be another chance for him to prove himself as a decent racehorse. This was his first start. He still has a lot to learn and because he has not been rushed, he can still be a classic runner down the road. We'll see. If not, can I get in line to have him as an OTTB?  ;)

I'm checking the site again this morning after working all night to see if they have any news on Nicarnor's hoof. Nothing yet but from what I'm reading the horse has a lot of growing up to do and he has a very good trainer. He might actually do better at a longer distance when he has time to mature and it might be better if he was pointed toward turf racing. Lots of other horses to watch out there!

He's definitely not the second coming of Barbaro, that's for sure!

I know nothing about horseracing and not afraid to admit it,because of Barbaro I am interested now.  My love lies with the connection to Barbaro because when I 1st. saw Barbaro I fell in love with him. He was special,his spirit oozed personality,determination and had a sence about him that was so unlike all of the horses I had ever seen.  A fairytale, so like the Prince in storybooks..

I have watched the brothers of Barbaro since birth and will love them unconditionally whether they win or lose to me they are so special.

Nicanor did just fine and my prayers are for his quick recovery and on too the races...God, speed loved one!

stardust: I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you try to go to a racetrack and see first hand how the business works. Some tracks do put on tours of the backside or you can ask somebody that knows somebody to get you signed in as a guest. Don't take this wrong but you have a  very unrealistic view of racing in general. You are making broad statements about a sport that has been around for over 100 years, It's a billion dollar industry that employs millions of people world wide. I'm sorry but it isn't going to be shut down anytime soon by congress, it might shut down by a severe drop in the mutual handle. Do you think the Jacksons breed racehorses for no other reason than? They breed to race at the highest level and have been very sucessful at it. They may love their horses but it is still a business and it needs to make a profit. So remember when you make those negative remarks that there are thousands of people like the Jacksons in racing, just as caring of the welfare of their horses. I'm going to bet that you just haven't met any of them yet.

I believe it is nice to believe good things will happen for Nicanor.

And I certainly wouldn't want to compare Nicanor with Riva Ridge because I always seem to get grumbled at when I do bring up other horses, but although Riva Ridge raced magnificently as a two year old, I don't believe he won his first two races. It would be interesting to go back and read news accounts on Riva Ridge's first two races. If it was mentioned at all, I don't believe they were kind.

And as for realism, well I really believe that realistically speaking, Nicanor will do fine. And it is almost certain that Michael Matz doesn't allow Nicanor to read this blog because it might hurt his feelings.

Hope you are feeling better Nicanor and your wound heals quickly.

Riva Ridge lost two races that may have been his 3 and 4 race...nobody's perfect. Anyway, he did lose two races as a two year old, two as a three year old and two as a 4 year old. Even Kentucky Derby winners aren't perfect. It appears that Riva Ridge didn't like mud.

I'm wondering if some of you on here saw the same race I did..Nic stumbled at the start, I thought oh no..Then he (Nic) rushed up into contention, Ed had a strangle hold on him, had the breaks on trying to slow him down, that gave me hope but the injury and lack of experience did him in..But he's game, the race did show me that, he's real game..Just needs experience and to relax..Believe me, he'll be back. Looking to the future for this horse, it's not the end..trust me..he did just fine.

Why is it called "grabbed a  quarter"?  Horseracing has so many strange expressions.  Like "wrapped him up".  Why not, he kicked ("nicked") himself and Edgar eased him up?  

Amanda,  is there any word at all about Nicanor's condition?  Prognosis, etc?

off the board means he did not place  to show up on the tote board.

YOU KNOW, NICANOR MAY NEVER BE THE HORSE ALL OF YOU ARE EXPECTING. HE MAY BE JUST ORDINARY.

i feel sorry for nicanor because he was behind at the gate and never really showed up i think alot of people put alot of pressure on him expecting him to be just like his brother and he failed as for the kentucy derby coments i wanted to see him there too there is a defference between good and great adn he has a long way to go to be great but its not he end of the road i just wont be betting on him i the derby even if he showed up which he still could do but would need to win at least 2 races to have a shot i saw a horse do it last year and he only one one race before the derby so it can be done its just a long shot

Too much was expected of this horse. I hope the media will treat him well. He is still a winner in my eyes. I love Barbaro's family and will always root for them win or lose.

I wanted him to win. Only because of Barbaro. He left us too soon. I know it's foolish to think that Nicanor is like Barbaro but we can dream can't we?

SharpHumor87 and Kathy

I have been to a lot of race tracks.  I have owned race horses.  I have a racing license for my state.  What I am saying about Congress is very true.  They are on the brink of shutting racing down because of the fatalities on the track and the fact that they feel that it is a cruel sport.  I know this because I spent over a week in DC last month and a couple of my very good friends are in that circle of politics. They are sick and tired of the horses breaking down, being sent to auction or left in a field to die if they aren't any good anymore, etc.  It has been talked about a lot.  They are not just looking at Nicanor.  They are evaluating the sport as a whole.  When they get negative information from the racing industry, it more confirms their standing that they want to oust this sport.  Most of them are against it.  I am not kidding when I say that it is close to being banned.  There are horse racing fans that have come very close to nothing short of threats to the president.  Did you know that?  People need to be careful becasuse it is them that will ban the sport and then what?  No more horse racing.  It won't be legal. It will only take the Nation (which more are against than for it) and Congress to shut it down.  Those of us that have people in DC know what has been talked about.  Nicanor is the brother to a very famous horse that opened the eyes to many in the horseracing sport.  All I am saying is the sport is not going to make it if these horses keep on getting put down and then neglected.  

I just hope for the sake of the good and honest people that are in this sport, the rest of them don't mess it up for them.  That is the way things work.  The negative messes things up for the positive and then "everyone" loses.  I don't really want to go into detail here on this blog but I just want to say that this sport is a hot topic and being dicussed at length with the very people that have the power to stop it.  

Nicanor is loved by many. If something were to happen to him, the people of this country are not going to back down.  There are way more people that want to see it stopped than continue.  That is all I am trying to get accross.  

I Love Nicanor and no matter what he does, as long as it is on four legs!!! I could care less if he dead last in ALL of his races.  

For those of you, like me, who didn't get a cable feed of Nicanor's debut, go to www.xpressbets.com.  You have to give "em $50 to set up a betting account, but you don't have to actually bet to view their constant video stream of live races.  You log on, pay your money, and then click on the list of tracks to choose the one you want to watch.   It's not great, but it's better than not seeing it at all. Go Nicki. Better days are coming and you made it through safely.  Thank goodness for Prado who really knows what he's doing with the new "Jackson family.

ace hare, good call. Personally, I think that Barbaro got lucky in the talent department. I think the Dynaformer-La Ville Rouge combo is way overrated. Nicanor definitely has the best team behind him, but he won't be Barbaro and we shouldn't expect him to be.

Kathy that was cute.  Nicanor doesn't read this blog :)  I am glad he doesn't let him read it either.  

Wanda--How nice of you to "go out on a limb" in order to educate Stardust. She should definitely take your advice and visit various facilities within the horse racing industry. She might also listen in or read transcripts of Congressional hearings so that she could understand that the federal government only wants racing to do a better job of regulating itself. They do not want to do away with the sport, nor do they want to have to become a regulatory agency. Wanda, I appreciate your presence on these blogs.

Nicanor showed that he wanted to run and that he could respond to  his jockey and follow direction.  He showed that, despite having hurt himself, he could still run and he did.  I think, it was a successful debut, too.  He demonstrated a lot of the "right stuff" in  a difficult situation that could have happened to any horse, he 'grabbed a quarter" (kicked himself and  was bumped by another horse.  Ran into a wall of horses, and his jockey pulled (eased) him up.  All circumstances out of his control.

Yet he showed speed and heart and responsiveness. When Edgar moved him to the outside (from the video, it almost looked as if Nicanor and Edgar just flowed through the other horses to get to the outside.) he responded quickly.That was a lovely move, really. And then, Edgar eased him up.  Nicanor responded well to Edgar's direction.  Edgar took good care of Nicanor.  Just what should have happened.   So, next time, watch what he does!  

Wanda.  

I have owned race horses.   I have owned race horses that didn't make it and took them in because they didn't make it.  I have a racing license for my state.  I have been to a lot of tracks.  I know both sides of the industry.  The bad and the good.  I used to love horseracing.  After Barbaro, and the demise of Eight Belles, I started to fade away from it.  I just feel that there needs to be a lot of changes if it is going to continue. If you know about racing then you know that it is going downhill.  That is no secret.  Tracks are closing, purses are being slashed, people are starting anti-racing groups to petition to Congress.  All of that is going on.  

As I said before, for the SAKE of the honest and good trainers (like Matz that does not run his horse until he is developed,I hope that it will stay up and running.  I totally dissagree with running a 2 year old.  They are not strong enough yet.  They are still growning.  I care about the horses, not the money that they can make for the people.  There are many other ways for people to make money with their horses without the neglect and the fatalities.  The racing industry is a very cold place to be.  A huge amount of the population in this country along with the people in Washington are getting tired of it.  

Nicanor is in the spotlight because of Barbaro.  Barbaro took everyones heart and then broke it.  That is what started all of this.  

Nic is a fine horse but, if you want a horse as close to 'B' as possible all you have to do is look at Lentanor and you will get that same 'special' feeling you got as when you looked at 'B' - not only that but, he is a dead ringer physically - just a little darker.  From watching videos of him he also has the mental attitude and competitive spirit that 'B' had. Lentanor IMO is the one to watch.

I think it's wonderful that many people are following Nicanor and his debut at the races.  However, I think those urging caution in Nicanor's expectations are right.  He just ran a MSW and had all kinds of problems.  Maybe he'll come into his next race and blow them away, or maybe he won't.

I think it's important to remember that you can enjoy following a horse's career even if that horse doesn't make the Triple Crown or even ever wins a graded stake.  It's just that most of us aren't lucky enough to have a blog devoted to that horse to make following that career pretty easy (and I'm not begrudging the blog -- I think it's great).

Follow and support Nicanor and his connections, but let his performance guide your expectations.  Whether he ends up winning big stakes races or never gets past allowance company, he's still deserving of love and affection.  And maybe it will give some folks a better appreciation for the vast majority of thoroughbreds who toil in relative obscurity.

Nicanor is a beautiful horse and I feel he tried his hardest.  Let's give him a chance to heal and race again. Regardless he's loved and wished the very best.

Thanks again, Ace Hare, for a good balanced commentary on what was not a great first effort.  I'm sure Nicanor can improve but he is nowhere near Barbaro's class.  Anyone who mentions the Kentucky Derby in the same breath as this horse has no idea what it takes to make the elite field of twenty, and must think life is a Disney movie.  I was really happy to see Nicanor make it to the track and from Prado's comments, he could have some potential on turf or later in the year as he matures.  For everybody weeping and rending their garments over the pressure and attention upon this horse, may I remind you this blog is called Tracking Barbaro's Brothers, so the celebrity comes with the pedigree.  Fortunately Nicanor doesn't know anything about that, and is back in the barn with a sore heel eating his oats.  And even more to his good, Gretchen and Roy Jackson will always take good care of this horse.      

I stand corrected stardust. I assumed you were a casual fan because your comments about the horse after he ran. You stated that he hit himself on the leg which is incorrect as "grabing a quarter" involves the foot{heels or bulb of the heel}.Saying that, you are if anything a believer in what you are saying. I respect anyones opinion on that, we all have the right to say what we want. I will respectfully disagree with you on the state of horse racing in the US and NA. That is my right as well and I hope that in future we all can be respectful of each others opinion.

danaintc

I too believe that in the racing aspect, Lenntanor is the one to watch.  I don't think and frankly don't want for ANY horse to replace Barbaro.  Actually no horse ever will.  He will always carry the legend that "made a difference for the better" in the industry.  He was and is still very loved.  

Nicanor is loved simply because he is Barbaro's little brother.  He is drawing non racing fans to the sport which is something that is needed.  What is wrong with that?  As for the downward spiral on horse racing.  Look around.  Browse the Internet.  Talk to the general public.  Talk to the lay person.  More often than not, you will find that people don't like the sport.  

These horses are bred to run yes but let them run at their own level.  Pushing them is why there are so many breakdowns.  Let them be horses.  When they are ready and IF they are ready to be a racehorse, it will be them that shows that talent.  In the end it is the "horse" that matters.  What would the people do without the horse?  I believe that there are too many wrongs to make up the rights.  This has been done because of the people in the industry that are not patient, not caring about the horse but the money (so what if they are put down as long as they won the million dollar race).  It is them that are going to mess it up.  Them and ONLY them.  It doesn't take a lot of people to make a bunch of noise.  As we all know with Barbaro.  Changes can and WILL be made for the sake of these horses.  

There will never be another Barbaro.  There will never be another Nicanor.  On and on.  Each horse is their own self.  Each jockey is too their own self.  I believe that had it not been Edgar on Nicanor the other day, Nicanor may not be here now.  It is jockeys like that and people like Matz that are going to keep the sport honest.  

Nicanor did the best he could under  difficult circumstances.  Let's cut him some slack and give him a break.  He'll do better next time.  Who knows?  He may do really, really well from now on!  He has heart, he has speed, he is competitive, intelligent and responsive to his jockey.  He's big, beautiful, and strong.  With a little luck (no more bumps or "nicks") he will be a fine racehorse.  All the ingredients are there. What more does he need?  

Karen in Texas: Thanks I enjoy "talking" to all kinds of people thru these sites. I spent the better part of 20 some odd years looking down a shed row full of horses. I had highs and lows in the ownership game and wouldn't have done anything different. The people you meet at the racetrack have to be on the whole,the best group of people I've ever met.

JENNIE:

SO WHAT IF HE PROVES "ORDINARY",I CAN LIVE WITH THAT!!!!!!!!

Let me see here the blog was about Niancor. He deserves another chance. Let's see how that goes before judging. I'm with da3hoss on that.

stardust,

you seem to be living in a fairy tale world. Nobody in Congress is going to press for the shutdown of a multi-billion dollar business in these hard economic times. yup let's eliminate thousands of jobs and effect the suppliers of everything from equipment, medicine, bedding, food, macinery, etc. for this industry. Me thinks your "friends in the loop" got ahold of some bad weed and were partying a bit too hard on inaugaration day. Just think of the jobs that would be lost trackside and off-track. put down the doob and join us in the real world. It's a much prettier picture when it's in focus.

I can see that Stardust still thinks that racing will be shut down by congress for not letting Nicanor win. Or is it that racing is going to end because Nicanor isn't going to be successful? Or is stardust still trying to figure out what color the sky is in his/her world?

The racing industry does not really face any kind of danger from congress, the only reason they even had hearings after the filly broke down was to get some face time (which is typical when any type of "tragedy" happens). The hearings were a joke, and now, since the public eye is no longer on racing, they no longer really care. And animal rights groups like the PETArds will go away (likely for supporting what amounts to domestic terrorist groups) before racing will, especially since they are just as crazy as stardust. A different kind of crazy, but crazy none the less. But it seems that PETA had such a huge influence on the public that 12 whole people came out to protest the Preakness, .00012% of the attendance. Granted, organizations like CDI, Breeders Cup and NTRA should have been out in front of the story, but stop kidding yourself and trying to scare people into thinking that there is a huge public outcry for the end of racing.

Also, some tracks need to close. Take an economics class, stardust. Learn how racing is subsidized by alternative gaming, propping up poor business models. Learn how less is actually more. I hear that the University of Louisville offers a quite good and well respected program that offers a business degree that emphasizes equine administration. Maybe they could teach you a little about this industry, because it would really seem that you need to learn more about it.

WANDA:

I think it's wrong to assume Stardust has never visited a track or met owners,etc. As I've said before,I have three racehorses in Fla. that race in minor stakes,whom are better cared for than some children,I also demand from the beginning that they remain lightly raced. Their well being is number one priority. This isn't my source of my income,it's a hobby. I can state with absolute certainly,I've met many well known owners such as the Farmers last fall in Kentucky,etc. You have no way of knowing who Stardust has met!

TO STARDUST:

I think you are "on point" with many of your ideas. Good work!

Stardust:

Don't you have anything better to do than be negative about anything and everything pertaining to racing?  Why don't you just turn your back on the whole thing or better yet, go out and solve all of the problems in the sports world.  It seems like you have the "right stuff" to do it with.  It's depressing to even read your posts.

Bless all horses!!!  They give so much!  Go, Nicanor!!!  

Marigold -

"grabbing a quarter" can refer to taking off as much as 1/4 of the front hoof by the hind hoof.  The "quarter" of the hoof is another name for the side of the hoof, as opposed to the heel.  Sometimes a horse will pull off the heel of a front hoof.

I think the implication of "wrapping him up" is that the jockey took an active role in pulling the horse back, as opposed to just loosening the reins and letting him do whatever he felt like doing.

How long it takes to heal will depend in part on how big the injury is.  Sometimes it's weeks, sometimes months.

I was at Gulfstream and was lucky to be able to go visit Nic in his barn before the race.  He seems like a very happy, handsome and nice horse.  When he came out into the walking ring the whole place started cheering him and it did startle him somewhat, but that's probably something he'll have to get used to because everyone so loved Barbaro.  He had early speed in the race and I'm sure would have finished much better if Edgar hadn't eased him, which I think was the right thing to do.  There will be lots of other races for him to prove how good he will be but the important thing is that he's safe and we'll all get to see him run again. I was thrilled to have been able to see him in person.      

Stardust

Wouldn't that just be something, shutting down the racing industry here and where would all the horses go, overseas, where more of them would sure to be slaughtered; remember Ferdinand. I hope congress thinks long and hard on this possibility.

I do not worry about Nicanor as long as he can get his syncronization down with his back legs and front legs. I suspect Nicanor will have it all together by the time he is four and may race until he is six. That is just what I think.

And I am not sure why some former race horses can't be retrained and placed in horse parks where at risk teenagers can go there after school and ride them for for free. This of course would involve setting up parks and trails...wouldn't that be something.

Funny thing happened on the way to Santa Anita, the synthetic track  there has run into a problem or two causing several horses to be euthanized as of late. I believe they are now checking and turning the track on a regular basis to remove inconsistencies like hard spots. It seems even when the racing industry tries, they still run into difficulties.

And it appears or so I've been told that they are also planning on demolishing Hollywood Park to develop homes in the not too distance future. Progress, you got to love it.

I havent read all the comments but a lot of people are saying a mile was too far. Barbaro's first race was a mile too and he was only 2 years old. So i guess its a matter of opinion.

After finally watching the race I'm very pleased because he showed speed and got injured in the process. I'm so excited for Nicanor because he's going to do great.

One comment really alarmed me. Is it true that the US Govt. wants to ban racing?

Your right Mike and if you took the time to read my last post I explained why I assumed she was a casual fan. Saying that you come across as someone that has strong views on how many times you run your horses. That's your call, your paying the day money.I've said this on every site I've been on that I respect others opinion. Here's the big BUT not when you try a shove your opinion down somebody else's throat. I've got no respect for people that can't at least acknowledge other opinions that are opposite to their own. Do you think that maybe that I as well as others can learn from all these comments? It makes your world a pretty small place to live when you have blinkers on 24/7.

MIKE RELVA

Thanks Mike.  I have nothing against racing IF it is done right!  It is the horses that make this sport possible.  The people are the ones that are messing it up.  As for who I know and what I know, well I am leaving that one alone.  I love Nicanor, Lenntanor and Barbaro.  I love all horses.  I don't feel they should be pushed into a gate to run if they don't feel like running.  I also feel that they should not be whipped.  If they are true race horses they will do it "all by themselves".  Prado is one of a kind.  

If you people think that your small percentege of this Nation is on top of things, then think again.  Horseracing is NOT in the Olympics.  Why?  Has anyone even thought of that?  What sports are in the Olympics that involve horses?  Yeah the ones where the horses show talent and extreme talent at that.  

Nicanor is not going to shut racing down.  It is the HUMANS that are going to do that.  The horses are just the puppets for the people to use as their way to make money.  Horses cannot sign petitions and vote for or against this sport.  People can.  

I will say this again.  For the sake of the HONEST people in this sport (which aren't very many) I hope that it doesn't crash.  I love horses.  I am on this blog because I love Nicanor and the brothers of Barabro.  I see that there are people on this blog that do not belong here because it is THEM putting the horse down.  Let us all remember who's blog this is.  

Wanda. You do have a right to your opinion.  Everyone does.  You seem kind.  That too is rare in this sport.  :)

stardust,

Are you related to draynay in some odd backwoods type of way? You make little sense with your outrageous statements about congress and shutting down the industry. It reminds me if nay nay's tunnel vision way of looking at things. Wake up and sniff the roses, it's better for you than what you apparently are sniffing.

You could lose every race Nicanor...To me you are still the best and the most beautiful horse there is. I am proud of you just for being your big beautiful self. I'll love you win or lose.

Sally F

Loving THE HORSE is not being negative.  It is the opposite.  Without the horse, there is no horseracing.  The HORSE comes first.  :)

ace hare.  

Now you are over here making waves?  What is up with these people that come to a Nicanor blog that don't like that horse?  Do they not have anything better to do?  There are so many places they could go where people would agree with them.  

This is a blog for Nicanor, Barbaro and Lenntanor.  If you don't love those horses, you don't belong here.  We are FOB's.  We love the family.  For those of you that are trying to educate me, you are waisting your time.  I don't need your help.  I have my mind made up.  I love horses.  ALL horses.  :)

Whoa . . . this is spinning a bit out of control.  But it sure is causing a lot of passionate discussion.

Back to the horse -- how is Nicanor?  Any word on this slight injury, and is there any word on feedback from Michael Matz or Peter Brette?  I know from everything I read that they would learn a lot more about how to train Nicanor once he had a race in him.  It would be terrific to hear their wizened feedback.

Otherwise, suffice it to say there are diverging opinions on Nicanor's future based on this one race and his workout times from everyone with varying degrees of experience and knowledge.  I guess the only assessments that will matter will be those of the connections who actually work with Nicanor.  And I am most anxious to hear that.

One thing is for sure, the spirited discussions in this blog sure show a lot of interest in horses and horseracing.  So that's a terrific thing in itself !

Mike that's really nice that you stuck up for stardust. But like you told Brad on Triple Crown Talk she can speak for herself. Stardust does a heck of a job speaking for herself and IMO doesn't have an agenda, not like some I won't mention.

Fear not, Nicanites! The trip Nicanor got (slow break & rush up) almost never ends well. The second lifetime start is where horses show the most improvement.

FAMOUS FIRST TIME LOSERS....... SECRETARIAT, SEABISCUIT, LAVA MAN, ALYDAR, SUNDAY SILENCE, LOST IN THE FOG, RAGS TO RICHES.....THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. AS FAR AS THE COMMENTS ABOUT DYNAFORMERS CONFIRMATION GO, YOU CAN LOOK THROUGH THE STALLION REGISTRY AND FIND A LOT OF HORSES THAT RESEMBLE DYNAFORMER IN BUILD, INCLUDING ROCK HARD TEN, ANOTHER ROBERTO LINE SIRE. I THINK THE PHOTO IS SOMEWHAT DECEPTIVE BECAUSE YOU CANT GRASP HOW TALL HE ACTUALLY IS. WHEN COMPARING HIS HEIGHT TO HIS LENGTH, HE DOES LOOK CLOSE COUPLED. HOWEVER, TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT BARBARO, NICANOR AND LENTENOR, THEY ARE ALL LONG BODIED AND LONG LEGGED. LENTENOR RESEMBLES HIS SIRE MORESO THEN DO NICKY OR BOBBY. I SEE A LOT MORE OF LA VILLE ROUGE IN THOSE TWO. ALSO, ID LIKE TO SAY HOW VERY SICK I AM OF PEOPLE LIKE TIM, BETTY, JUMANJI AND A FEW OTHERS WITH NOTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT ANYTHING. GOING THOUGH LIFE SURROUNDED BY SUCH NEGATIVITY MUST BE HELL.

Whew!  I just read these comments over the past couple days...I agree most with cgriff's realistic comments.  Remember that horse racing is a SPORT - albeit a sport involving one of God's most beautiful and swift creatures, but a SPORT nevertheless.  Like other sports, you will have different folks debating the merits of horses, jockeys and trainers, just like my upstairs neighbors were debating the outcome of the Super Bowl yesterday.  That's part of sport, and one of the great things about horseracing is its non-predictability.  Sure there are handicappers who do a better job predicting outcomes than others but it all comes down to luck.

Somehow I highly doubt that the status of Nicanor is going to influence Congress to shut down a multi-million/billion-dollar business in the US.  And even if it IS shut down in the US - which I doubt - the sport is STILL quite legal in most other parts of the world.  I can see new tracks opening in Canada and Latin America to make up for the lack of the sport here in the States - and thousands of jobs will vanish in the US, at a time when they are sorely needed.  Of course, horse racing is still huge in the UK, France, Asia.  

Since the best bloodstock for the most part is in Kentucky, I can see the breeding element (which is the most consistently lucrative part of the industry) remaining in the US.  However, again, I feel that the chance of the sport being banned in the US is remote.  More legislation on drug use, track safety etc - that is more likely to occur, probably on a state-by-state level since horseracing is run that way.

Now I note that at least one person indicated that if Nicanor tanks as a racehorse, by this summer - they should send him to stud.  I must give that thought an emphatic "God I hope not!"  The fact that the Jacksons gelded the older brother when he ended up not having the inclination or talent to race gives me hope that they will do the same for Nicanor.

There are far too many stallions as it is and too many horses being created; the sales results at the last couple of Keeneland auctions alone should tell anyone that at this time supply is far exceeding demand.  The Jacksons aren't just breeders - they are equestrians as well and I can easily see them opting to geld Nicanor and steer him towards a second career as a show horse, hunter/jumper, etc.  This would NOT be a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination.  In fact, since so many of the FOBs are active in horse rescue they should WELCOME this prospect as reducing the possibility of excess, unwanted horses in the US.  

Also I enjoy reading all the posts - the Nicanor/Barbaro fans as well as the practical realists.  This is a public blog and ALL folks are permitted to voice their opinions.  I'm on the fence but agree that it is interesting to follow a horse from the beginning - although it is certainly not the first time this has happened. In 1954, Sports Illustrated decided to follow a TB horse from birth - they picked a foal born on Calumet Farm, who was named Iron Liege and ended up winning the Kentucky Derby in 1957!

OK, everyone -- fine news about Nicanor from those in the know:  Peter Brette and Alex Brown spoke and Nicanor is doing very well after the race, eating very well, not lame.  Nicanor did in fact grab a quarter rather badly, but Peter is going to take him out for a jog tomorrow, and feels very certain that Nicanor will be very different coming off his first race.

ALSO, a link is provided to the self same article I referred to above wherein, they feel, a more balanced assessment (also meaning not so negative) of Nicanor's performance is expressed.  

Here's the link to the feedback from Peter Brette:  www.alexbrownracing.com/.../barbaro_updates_760.php

Looks like we DO have something to look forward to !  NICE !

To-Mike Revla, I agree will all of your points:I would consider it an honour and privelege to muck his stall! Your uneducated "friends" probably dont know how to, if they even know what it means!

The only comparison in human terms that I can think of for grabbing a quarter is this; imagine at the beginning of a track and field race that another runner accidently kicks you in the achilles tendon, bad enough to cut it. Your adrenaline pumping high, you don't feel the injury right away but your body reacts to it anyway and you perform poorly. you will also need to rest up and heel for a few weeks. SO GET OFF THE HORSE'S BACK AND GET MORE EDUCATED BEFORE YOU RUN OFF AT THE MOUTH AGAIN, PLEASE!!!!!!!!

I agree with the person who said that Nic needs to learn how to synchronize his legs.  That is the dilemma for all young racehorses just starting out.  A couple of high profile breakdowns involved horses whose trainers had previously stated that the horse is just now learning where to put it's legs.  So, I am a little concerned about Nic, simply because his legs are so long-- I was very surprised to see how long they are.  I like that body type on a horse... more like Street Sense than Curlin... i.e. he is built for speed, which he showed early on in the race!  Now if he could only build some stamina, learn to rate, and use that beautiful speed burst in the stretch at the END of the race, then we got something folks.  As far as the mile distance being too long, in this case all hope of winning was lost when he broke so poorly (Barbaro-like... stumbling/crashing out of the gate) and Edgar used up his one big run early to get him to midpack... therefore, of course he had nothing left and faded. But, like what some people are saying, I am happy with what he showed, and I am not discouraged at all.

As far as shutting down horseracing, it may not be as far-fetched as you think.  There is an older gentleman who is a longtime trainer with a radio show in my area, who on several occassions has stated that horseracing is in jeopardy of being shutdown by the animal activists.  On certain days I actually welcome that idea... but then I come to my senses and realize how much I love the sport.  It is a love-hate thing.  To Tim, the horseracing degenerate:  I couldn't be like you if I tried with every ounce of my being.  But, obviously it would be much easier than to actually care, but the flip-side is you miss out on the depth.  Tim, have you ever had a pet (animal, as you put it) that moved you to cry when it passed away?  

Majella:  Do you know anything about Lush Lashes and how she came out of the Hong Kong Cup?

alex brown states on his website that he talked to Peter Brette, said he "did grab his his quarter pretty badly, but that he is eating well", he plans to take him out for a jog tomorrow.

I forgot to add that he is NOT lame, and will be a different horse next time he races, sorry!

www.alexbrownracing.com

To Mike R Mr Positive, I've been a racing fan for 45 years and do know a lot about racing and tell it as it is, the horse quit and if you have raced horses as you claim that should have been obvious , if you watched the replays you'll clearly see that prado didn't pull the horse up he wasn't showing any signs of being injured.I agree with the guy who said the horse wasn't ready to run and that the trainer was under pressure to finally get the horse to the  races.If your so concerned about babying horses then I suggest don't race them just let them out to pasture once a day and keep them stlled the rest of the time Green Monkey was all hyped up like this and showed nothing in his workouts to indicate he was anything special. this horse's workout's weren't very impressive. This is not a hollywood movie, his brother was a great horse during his brief career,I suggest you get a life and back to reality there are thousand's of horses running each year some breakdown that's the chance they take , everything human or animal will die just some sooner then others. He showed no fight when he got into the thick of the race -he quit  so much for the hollywood movie. You won't see him run for awhile this " injury" will be good cover to rest him awhile so that the pressure to run him again will have tailed off.the winner and runnerup of the race showed me a lot. Matz knows what ability this horse has and if he turns out to be good i'll gladly eat crow but I see another Green Monkey  story in the making.I'm positive we'll have some really good 3 year olds this year and maybe a superstar but it won't be this horse, being a sibling doesn't guarantee a thing.I hope that each horse races without injury but that's part of the game.

OK, the most hyped horse since Green Monkey.

Lets get out of the Derby talk-not going to happen. His race-OK he had an excuse-A) With all the hype the clockers didn't bet B) Although not persevered with he never really looked like he was going to win.

Lets hope he will do well, but even with the excuse, as a bettor my money would be on him "not" breaking his maiden in his second start------let alone him winning a stakes or running in classics. I do wish him well though and it would be a nice story and good for horse racing if he were to turn into a nice horse. (Just don't count on it--There was a reason Northern Dancer's full bro stood in Mich with no mares knocking at his door to breed to him)

Wanda

My adgenda is easy.  I am one that looks for homes for unwanted horses.  I am one that is for the passing of HR503 in Congress.  I am for the HORSE.  I love all horses.  I believe all of them should be treated with a lot of love and a lot of care.  If they cannot race, then put them in a place where they are happy horses.  IF the sport does swindle down to nothing, the breeding will have to be delt with.  All of this has been talked about.  

I love race horses but I want them to be treated right, with kindness and not pushed.  Some are good, some don't cut it.  The thing that upsets me is the trainers and owners that have a horse that isn't a good horse on the track and they push that horse anyway often to a fatality.  The bad outweighs the good in the racing industry and the way things are changing in this country, it won't be long before something will have to give.  

A true horse lover is more concerned about the horse than the money.  Yeah there are wagers.  Yeah there is this and that.  Well things like this have been ousted before and when it comes to the money, the government doesn't look at billions, they look at trillions.  Something to ponder.  

As I have said, I love Nicanor and all of the connections to him.  I only want one thing.  The horses to be treated with love and a heck of a lot of care.  If they cannot race, there is something else for them to do.  :) Congress is not going to let them be transported to other countries for slaughter.  That one is already won even if it is not on paper yet.  

I am very glad to hear that Nicanor is doing OK.  He is such a special horse.  Come on you guys.  How many horses attract NON RACING fans?  Don't you think the sport needs that?  I think it is a good thing.  Whether he does well on the track or not, he is loved by thousands and that will help the racing industry just as much as a KD win.  Of course he won't be in the Derby.  He doesn't have the time to get the races that he needs to get there.  That was never an option with him.  

Please people.  Lighten up on Nicanor.  He is a wonderful horse.  He is making a difference.  Isn't that the ultimate goal in the end?  :)

whew!  You are great.  I like the way that you voice your opinion with a productive tone.  You are right about the over breeding.  That has to stop.  I like the way that you don't put people down when you speak.  Have you considered going to work in Washingoton?  :)

As for the jobs in the states, there are three areas that are big right now.  

Education

Health Care

Enviromental Movemnent and Global Warming.  

Horseracing is not on the list.  In fact, it is going downward and quickly at that.  Let's all just be glad that we have the bright light in Nicanor OK?  He has brought so much joy back to horseracing just being him.  :)

helsbelles

:-)  Right on.  

"FAMOUS FIRST TIME LOSERS....... SECRETARIAT, SEABISCUIT, LAVA MAN, ALYDAR, SUNDAY SILENCE, LOST IN THE FOG, RAGS TO RICHES....."

GOOD POINT!!!!!!! :)  Give Nicanor a break guys.  OK?  Just let him go at his own pace.  Let HIM be the decider whether he wants to be a racehorse.  The Jacksons, Matz and Prado are doing that, why can't all of you?

TO: DOWNHOMESUNSET:

I'm not on the horses back,I've defended him on this blog!

Nicanites.  I like that.

TO SALLY F:

You stated it's depressing reading Stardust's blogs. Well,here's a no-brainer for you,don't read them!!

To me both Nic and Lent look "weedier" than Barbaro did at their respective ages. Barbaro looked like more of a complete, mature horse at an earlier age. Obivously, he had that something intangible that made him a horse for the ages. I don't have direct experience with racing, but I've been riding and showing hunter/jumpers my whole life. I saw MM's manager from his jumper days. She compared Barbaro to Jet Run, one of his amazing jumpers from the '70s, that he had that wisdom.

For those criticizing Edgar, when he said he grabbed his quarter, he meant that in hindsight he figured did it coming out of the gate. During the race, he probably felt something was NQR (not quite right) when asked him and then eased him.

To all the people saying that Nicanor is the green monkey or something he doen't have potential you are very wrong.  I have watched everything little by little the race of Nicanor and let me tell you that horse just might probably end up being some kind of superhorse.  I am not kidding because just the way Nicanor accelerated it seems that this horse is gifted with a lot of speed.  To me him loosing his Maiden race is nothing because if you take into acount what Michael Matz, Peter Brette, and Edgar Prado say about Nicanor is seems that he just might have the same kind of speed that Barbaro had.  Look at Secretariat, Seabiscuit, and all those other great horses they lost their very first race and went from there to become racing legends.  I just know that Nicanor is great because it seems like he might be.  I also saw that in his race his head was very high meaning that something was bothering him or was frightened by something.  If Nicanor wouldn't have had such a weird race he could have won his race easily and this is no joke.  Just like how Peter Brette said Nicanor lost because he grabbed his quarter qretty badly and could not run well at all.  So the FOBS please don't loose hope on the legacy of Barbaro because trust me this is just the beginning of something great in the making and Nicanor is very special because he will show it later on I just know it.  Oh Nicanor's early speed has already begun to be compared to that of the great Secretariat and some other websites mention that he just might be like Secretariat.  But I do hope that Nicanor heals fast and begins to race soon again so that he can show to all the people who think he does not have potential to prove them wrong.

Wanda, I have to disagree with you slightly!  It is not just the racing folks, i have met some of the nicest people in my life just because of horses in general!  It would be my assumption that everyone that is reading this post and posting themselves is doing so because they love horses.  An interest in Barbaro and his siblings is the glue that binds us together.  I am looking forward to seeing how Nicanor progresses in the next several races.

As far as racing surfaces, let's take a real hard look at Great Britain.  There is zero tolerance for medication so the almost sound horses and those that cannot tolerate the rigors of racing through racing without Lasix etc. do not race and generally are not used in breeding.  Likewise, all racing is done on the grass.  Maybe we need to forget synthetic surfaces and do the majority of racing on grass over here.  Making the minority of racing on dirt might help the breakdown problems?

Saw the race. My predictions:

1. He will figure it out, fill out and muscle up.

2. He will do well in the Breeders Cup races and several other graded races.

3. He will do it again at 4.

4. Lentenor is developing faster and will be a Derby contender.

5. Trolls will stub a toe, rip off the nail and cry like babies just walking across the kitchen floor.

laura, what websites are comparing him to the great Sec?Please don't insult your fellow bloggers with a claim like that, if he was so good as you say what was the winner -the next Man O war?How can anyone take you serious let alone trust you when you talk like this the only thing bothering him was the competition -he quit!

Springsmom83

Perfect solultion to me.  I have been hearing that for over a month.  :)

TO 2 TIMEVALLEYPLAYEROF THE YR.

Maybe you have been a fan for forty five years as you state,but you know what, if class acts like Matz and the Jackson's say he's injured,then I'll bet the bank on their word! They should know,don't you think. You and I differ greatly cause I don't look at any horse as nothing but a machine like many individuals do. In fact,I fired my first trainer a year ago cause he tried telling me what to do and wanted to overrace my horses. These three horses that I own are not a means of how I make my living,they are a hobby,an adventure for me. Make no mistake about it,they come first! As for your reference that I baby my horses,here's your answer I'll do whatever that's in their best interest. It doesn't matter that you or a million people would disagree with my methods,that's my business! Here's a question? Did Cigar win his first race? what about Lava Man,or the great Secretariat? I will bet that if Nicanor begins winning,you wouldn't say anything or maybe come up with a lame excuse!

MIKE RELVA

We know that you love Nicanor.  We are in full swing here who is on his side and who is trying to start trouble.  We are not a bunch of kids.  Or most of us are not. LOL.  The only reason some of the negative comments are being made here is because they are getting bored with their own horses and there isn't anyone to put down in their own little cyber corners.  Like you said.  Just scroll on by.  No big deal.  Scroll scroll scroll, gently past the troll.  :)

Thanks Wanda for your imput.  :)

Everyone else that loves Nicanor, back at ya.  You all rock!  FOB's don't back down!  We are not going to start now.  Love you Nicanor, Lenntanor and Barbaro.  Always have and ALWAYS will.  Who the heck care about the track.  None of you needed that to become the favorites in this country.  :)

Firstly i come from the UK and we have All Weather tracks here too which are popular with some and unpopular with others but almost certainly here to stay!

Secondly lightning can strike twice in the same place!  Yes Nijinsky II full brother Minsky was a flop but his 3/4 brother The Minstrel (Flaming Page and Fleur wre sisters) was the top 2 Y O of 1976 and won the Epsom and Irish Derbys and The King George VI and Queen Elizabeth II stakes.  He would doubtless have won even more races had he not been packed off to stud with indecent haste but enough said there!

Thirdly I love Nicanor and like many of you am chiefly concerned that he is not in much pain, ate up and is given time to get over his first taste of racing which was not that pleasant due to that unfortunate start.  Fortunately Edgar Prado looked after him and he has a patient trainer and owners who will do what is best for him.

Have only skimmed most of the comments as all the negativity and, one has to say nastiness, of certain people was making me cross!  But well said all those who are just concerned for Nicanor (and i hope all horses) and who speak up for him!

Also concerned for those who look after, exercise and generally care for the horses that they get a fair days pay for a fair days work and more recognition for all their hard work.  The horses are often more dependent on them rather than their trainer and jockey yet they seldom get much credit.  Well done to those who do try and recognise what they do!  Good trainers and jockeys are vitally important of course and i am not suggesting they are not but the team behind them is equally so!

God bless Nicanor, all horses and all who truly love them!

Best wishes

Abbie

I'm no expert, but he sure looks like a good horse to me.  Despite taking a chunk out of himself, the acceleration he displayed catching up to he front runners was heart stopping.  I thought he was going to run right over all those horses!  Edgar got him in hand and moved him to the outside.  Can't help but think if Edgar had let him/encouraged him, he'd have run to the front (but may have injured himself more).  At least he is safe and can run "another day".  God Bless Edgar.  Nicanor will be a fine horse and will make us all very happy in time (and hopefully, shut some of he negative types on this blog up completely, finally).

Kathy

That bill is going to pass too.  The horses are not going to be transported overseas for slaughter.  There are too many un-wanted horses and no place to put them already.  Let's try to work on that.  I am.  I don't know about anyone else.  :)  

Rags to Riches beat the almighty Curlin LOL.  Not bad for a filly that didn't win her first race.  

O.K. Marc W, who exactly "hyped" this "most hyped horse since the Green Monkey"???  The connections didn't, they were very cautious and careful in their assessment.  We, his fans, and Fans of Barbaro, wee excited and enthusiastic about him.  (and still are, by the way).  So, who did the hyping??  Exactly?  And how?

Lost in the Fog won his first 8 races so you people just proved you know nothing.

Abbie Knowles: Your a dear but Flaming Page is the dam of Fleur not her sister. They are 3/4 brothers because they are both by Northern Dancer out of mother and daughter. Far North is another brother by Northern Dancer out of Fleur. As a side note Nijinsky II and The Minstrel were to totally different body types.

TO TIM:

Does being a JERK come easy for you?

Mike Relva,

Thank you for setting a good example as a horse owner.  

Good grief, where did all these bloggers come from that are trying to teach us about horses, and racing, claiming to be a character of good standing in the industry with "god like wisdom" and experience that we should all bow down to in awe.  Mike Relva and Abbie Knowles , I'm certainly not talking about the two of you. Anyone with some interaction with the industry knows who you are and your opinions are greatly appreciated. We have nasty little  imps that like to spout stupid little blurbs just to get a rise out of people and we have nasty hearted indivuals that have nothing better to do but jump in on a popular blog because it is popular. Look at our early entries, you can see who the truly devoted fans of this site are. Now that Nicanor is in the national limelight, johnnie -come-latelys are every where. Some one said this is a public site so everyone has the right to express themselves. Yeah, a restroom (public toilet) is in the same position and we don't see everybody doing their communicating just because it's there, do we? No, only those poor creatures that feel the need too, do so. This is a great blog that champions a very fine bunch of horses and their connections, so what if there are unrealistic expections? so what if they don't know anything about racing but love the horses and want them to win because of that love? So what? Get a life out there and go to Sunday School, if you must preach your standards to one and all. Stardust, you're  alright. Poo-poo on "your reedemers", they make me sick. Again I say, this is tracking Barbaro's brothers, not attacking Barbaro's brothers. Some of you need to look more closely at where you are before you write on the wall and slink back into the dark.

Having seen the video now, I feel really good about Nicky's first time out. He had a rough trip for a newbie. He hurt himself...for the first time. He got bumped...for the first time. He experienced traffic...for the first time. He got too strong early and combined with the above factors, burned out too soon. But he did show speed, and I think he may be a decent horse down the road. He may lose the next one too. But I'm keeping an eye on him. There is something I like about him.

I have watched horse racing farther back than I can remember. I REMEMBER the 1963 KD. So, that makes it 46 years for me! Not trying to play one up, but I am somewhat tired of the negativity of the "trolls" that have left their messages. Yes, you are entitled to your opinions, this is the United States. However, enough is enough. Nicky has run his first race, he didn't win, he may not make the KD (things can change),but that doesn't make him a claimer (which is how Charles Howard initially thought to acquire Seabiscuit)or soon to be a fox hunter. As so many persons have said here, we will follow him, and Lenny, and the new foal, when he arrives, regardless of how their careers go. Why? Because they are special. It may have started out because they're Barbaro's brothers, but I am pretty sure that we care about them for themselves at this point! This blog helped pull me from the darkest time of my life last year and has, along with the Friends of Barbaro, given me the courage to go back to school for my equine DVM (yes, I have, and things have changed a lot since the 70s!). So, though I support your right to express your opinions, enough is enough. Let's get back to being fans of horse racing, trying to improve the lives of the creatures that we love the most and moving on to Nic's next start. A good handicapper (like Kelso) will help the "game" as much as a Triple Crown winner and that would be okay for Nic, too!

"I got a horse right here, his name is Paul Revere and there's a guy who says if the weather's clear - can do - can do - This guy says the horse can do. If he says the horse can do - can do, can do."

Wow, after more crazy rantings from the Crazy Brigade I am ready to change my tune. I think that Nicanor is the greatest racehorse ever. I have never, in all of my years around the racetrack, seen an eleventh place finish like that one. For a couple of seconds, I thought that if it were a race to the 3/8th's pole, Nicanor would have finished fifth (THE GREATEST FIFTH PLACE FINISH EVER). His breathtaking rush up the rail, his exhilirating fade down the stretch, I think you guys are really on to something.

Now, you see, that is me making fun of this horse. Go back and read either of my posts, and show me where I have ever said anything bad about this horse. Unfortunately, if someone posts that this horse cannot still win the Derby, that person is the unrealistic one. And I pity you if you post here and don't compare him to any other of the Bloodhorse Top 100 that lost their first race. As a matter of fact, if you don't agree with the Crazy Brigade's assertion that racing is about dead and Nicanor is the only thing that will bring it back, then you know nothing about racing.

It may seem like I am picking on stardust and MIKE REVLA, and I am. I understand taking an interest in this horse because of what his brother accomplished (I read this blog, so I obviously do), but to continue to compare him to the immortals is to be adamant about stupidity. If you switched his name with any of the horses in the eigth at Gulfstream and made a wagering decision based on his works alone, he would have been 10 or 15-1. This horse has done nothing on the racetrack in the mornings to suggest greatness, and he surely didn't do it in the afternoon last week. Then when I click this blog, I see that instead of toning down the day dream, it has just gotten more out of hand. And the main engines for this is the Crazy Brigade, who purport to know all about racing from the inside, but with each post show they know less than did in the last one. It is you that should take your own advice and let him run and make his own way.

Sorry about the double post. In reply to Stardust, one of the things that the DVM will allow me to do is get a place where I can take some of those "unwanted horses". I lost my four footed love through a deal between a pair of drunks in a bar. I have always wanted them! Please don't presume that we're all pie-in-the-sky types. Other than that, you have some wonderful points. Forgot about Rags to Riches beating Curlin. She's a great one. Loved the Belmont win!!! Now, back to the La Ville Rouge boys!

2 time valley player of the year,

I am not trying to say that Nicanor will be the next Secretariat.  I am just basing my things on what I believe I saw on his first race, but you are right I should not have said that he might be the next Secretariat.  I apologize if that might have insulted you in some way.  I also want to apologize if I might have insulted anyone else with this claim.  I know it is very hard for everyone right now.  But where you said that he quit I think you may be wrong on that part.  Nicanor was just completely exhausted did you see the way he started to make a comeback at around the half-mile pole.  Other sites have reported that Nicanor had to run more than 12 furlongs to just get to the middle pack.  Not only did he have to deal with that he also had a serious injury in his quarter since he first got out of the gate and another horse bumped him making it worse.  Also he had pretty good speed when he caught up he had just run so much that he wasted a lot of energy meaning that he had a chance to win the race if he had not broken slowly from the gate and gotten injured.  So this is just all I am just trying to say.  And again I apologize if I insulted you in any matter.

TO:MIKE REVLA-Sorry-that was not directed at you ;I agree with most of your statements. I was directing the comment at these folks that don't know how many horses are diamonds in the rough. Cigar,for example, Alysheba ( my favourite-Who was still a maiden when he won the Kentucky Derby) goes on to be the highest earner untill Cigar. Go visit these two fine equines if you have the chance. You will see the greatness in thier eyes. Consider yourself priveleged to see them; I will probably not get the chance to experience such remarkable creatures. Ask yourself if they thought that thier charges were unworthy after one start.

MIKE-Again , accept my apology for the misunderstanding; I wish no ill will toward you and hope that we can be on the same side in many discussions to come

Stardust says:  This horse is being watched by many in Washington DC.  For the sake of all of you Naysayers out there that want to put down this horse, you better think again.  It will take ONE SLAM of that gavel for Congress to oust this sport because of the breakdowns.  Don't for a second think that they aren't watching this horse.  I am here to tell you that they are.

What are you talking about?   Congress is watching Nicanor? Why would they watch just one horse?  Are they that lame?  I hate innuendos.  Do you know something or are you just trying to sound important.  

I think if you look at the race video again, you'll see Nic come blasting up the rail and Prado is struggling to get him under control by the 1/4 pole and he continues the struggle until Nic begins to "listen" when he runs into the back of the pack. Here Nic drops his head lower and begins to settle in a sort of rhythm before Prado backs him off to go wide, where Nic loses his rhythm and falls off. I'm not an "expert", but being green, he showed great competitiveness in wanting to get to the front.Hopefully the speed he showed in catching up, will be transfered to a "closing" with his first win.

You all need to get a life of your own and stop living through a horse, or horses. Get real. You're talking about a maiden-not a champion. This is a great forum for people who have nothing better to do than act like they know something about horses. Most of you can't even spell. BTW, Nicanor farted at 7:15am and Michael Matz says "he's ready to run", or was that "ready to have the runs"?

i saw the video, it looks like nicky poured the speed on from nealy last coming up the rail to about third, where he was caught in traffic. bless you nicky, glad you are safe. STARDUST, i saw that race between rags to riches and curlin. these are two beautiful horses and curlin is built like a tank. they were nose to nose for a little bit, and rags to riches pulled ahead. how exciting, i tape all the races. rags to riches is currently in foal.

nicky knocks, you have a lot of exciting days to look forward to......and i'll be watching..love you!                    

I know many of us are feeling deflated and let down, but we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.. It was his first race, he had an excuse and whether he wins or loses the next race he is going to get something out of this race.  The light at the end of the tunnel was that quick move he made early in the race.. That would be the thing to hold onto here... maybe there is some hope.. we have all seen stranger things happen.

Who says Nicanor is Barbaro???  That would sure be a clone wouldnt it....How do you rate hopes,loves and dreams??  What is wrong with dreaming and loving a horse,you talk about reality well believe it or not, people do understand what the possibilities are in racing with Nicanor and we accept it. Whats wrong with dreaming???

Give our love and hopes of NICANOR Jackson  a break.  You folks could ruin the desire to even continue going to the races with all of your negative comments about such a sweet horse.

NICANOR DESERVES A BREAK HERE....

SL

It isn't just Nicanor that people are watching.  It is the entire racing industry.  Nicanor happens to be the peoples horse now because of Barbaro and he is drawing in people that hate racing.  That is what I am trying to say.  The racing as a whole is being evaluated and people are getting tired of the breakdowns and all of the things that are harmful to the horses.  More of the United States than not (much more) is against horseracing.  Congress calls it a "jockeys sport".  Not a horses sport.  All I am saying is the horses are the number one important factor in the industry and the people that own, train and ride these horses need to really evaluate what they are doing.  I haven't been hearing a lot of positive things from where I have been about horse racing.  I have been hearing about the trainers that run their horses at 2 years old which is construed as cruelty to the horse.  I have been hearing about the drugs, again cruel to the horse.  I have been hearing a lot of things that are not good for the horse.  

Nicanor has the best team and the best care.  That is rare.  He is a special horse.  Lenntanor is a special horse because Barbaro shed light onto the general public for people that have never been into horse racing.  Barbaro was loved by a lot of "nonracing fans".  The same goes with Nicanor and Lenntanor.  If anyone doesn't think that there is power to stop racing, think again.  If these horses keep on getting put down, run when they are not old enough and thrown off of a cliff when they are of no use to the owners anymore, count on the poliitions to step in and put a hault to it.  I only go by what I hear.  

The MOST important thing is the care of the horse.  THAT is what people of all sectors are looking at.  :)

Hey Amanda,

has there been any word from the M.M. camp on how Nicanor is doing? I'm not worried, just wondering if he is comfortable and on the mend.

Marigold,

About hype you ask? Any other unraced horse you know had his doings on a Bloodhorse site almost a year before he raced?

I liked Barbaro, I cashed a  bet on him in the Derby. I also was around before Seattle Slew made his first start---EVERYONE KNEW he was something special before he ran. In Canada Alydeed paid even money with his first start coming in a stake. He was later to win the Queen's Plate and just miss in the Preakness, These were hyped horses but not nearly on the level of this one. As a former clocker and long time fan, I have seen a lot of nice horses and ones they had high hopes on.

Again, next to Green Monkey the most expensive horse ever (Yes, I even remember Canada Bound--do you?)he is the most hyped horse ever. Not the horses fault, nor the connections.

My brother wrote speeches for President Regan and was Harry Reasoner's ghost writer---Without WORD I can't  particularly spell well and worked around racetracks for years. Breeding, education, and connections only go so far as talent is concerned.

As mentioned I really wish him well, and hope I am wrong. I like his connections.

To talk about him winning stakes at this point as a maiden is in left field off a 10th place finish.  Lets hope he proves me wrong.

sheila

I think that now is a really good time for people that love horses to pull together and work on avenues to help the unwanted race horses.  They are very special animals.  Just because they cannot make it around the track and get accross that finish line first, SO WHAT!  They are still just as special as any other horse.  Think what this world would be like without animals.  Just for one minute, take ALL of the animals off this planet and imagine what it would be like.  No birds, no cats and dogs, horses, deer, all of them.  It would be pretty bad wouldn't it.  We need to focus on what is important.  I said this before.  We cannot take our toys with us when we die.  We can have 10 dollars or 10 million dollars, it doesn't matter.  We need to focus on the important things.  When has a hundred dollars given you love?  Horses are very passionate animals.  They have done a lot for the human race as Gretchen Jackson so gracefully stated after they put down Barbaro.  Let's give it BACK!  We NEED to think about the horse.  They are all very presious animals.  ALL of them.  We need to find a way to deal with the ones that the owners want to kick to the curb because they are not coming in the money.  THAT is the true focus here.  THAT is what people in a lot of places are talking about.  

With most cases, if a racehorse does not hit the board and make a bunch of money then they are worthless.  NO they are NOT!  They are just as important as the ones that do hit the board.  

Nicanor has showed thousands that a race horse is more than a money making machine.  Let us all learn from him and maybe just maybe racing will continue.  

As with the presidential election it shows that when people make enough noise, they win.  This is no different.  THE HORSE!  We need to love the horses.  :)

From the Saratogan newspaper: www.saratogian.com/.../doc4987c1502577f942513593.txt

Please read then and then let's just settle down and enjoy following Nicanor, praying for his health, exorting his "class", and watching him run.

Even the fact that Nicanor is a full sibling to a horse as talent¬ed as Barbaro isn’t likely to count for much.

For example, there have been at least 58 full siblings to Hall of Fame horses foaled in the U. S. since 1970. While extremely high percentages of these siblings won stakes (23 percent) and graded races (10 percent), none of the 58 approached the level of their famous relatives. The most accomplished were two-time Grade I winner Personal Flag, a full brother to the legendary Personal Ensign, and Easy Goer’s full sister Cadillacing.

It is a sign of the times, though, that while many people nurse the hope that Nicanor will develop into a serious race¬horse, the more common wish may be that nothing worse than grabbing a quarter happens to him during his career.

sandieh

Isn't Rags a cool mare?  She sure is a fiesty thing though.  Quite the attitude there.  Gotta love her though.  :)

Ragsy

You are 100% right.  Nicanor needs our support.  Not this negative stuff that people love to throw at him.  He is a cool horse and he is a very loved horse.  I think the best thing to do is just scroll past the negative comments and don't even read them.  We know that Nicanor is the star on the track right now.  Just because he didn't WIN the last race, look at all of the fans that he pulled in.  He was on the national news.  He is very loved and very popular.  He is also on 4 legs because of Prado.  :)

Back to my theme of enjoying Nicanor. Do you have any idea how much we might mean to him? If we enjoy him, he'll enjoy racing. Go seem him live if you get the chance!!!!!!!!!

My mare, Little Nipper, raced at the lowest levels -- Portland Meadows and a few trips to Emerald Downs. Racing was big in those days with large crowds and she was always cheered heavily and backed well because she was a live long shot, winning 3 of 12 and placing in 3 others. Minus injury she would have done better. But she did have the "class" that trainers talk about -- AND SHE STILL DOES!  

A communicator told me she had this to say about her career: "I was famous then, but not now. I don't need that now; it still follows me like rays of sunshine. Everyone should have that. We all need that confidence; I've always had it.

At 21 Nip Nip still races Tbreds if she's lucky to have one stabled next to her. I asked the communicator to help me slow her down because of a serious navicular injury from her racing and trail career. Nip's answer? "I CAME TO SHOOT FIRE!!! You do everything for me, I'm not going to blow it. I take care of myself. But it's me; it's who I am."

So just enjoy Nicanor. Don't put the burden of your own desires on him. Leave to him the opportunity to enjoy himself and CHEER IM ON. Call his name and give him some applause.

"Hey Nic, you're beautiful!!! Kick some butt today boy!!!!!! We love ya."

Jim P

It is so apparent that you "get it" with horses and the racing industry.  I really like your posts and they are indeed valid.  Horses are smart.  They know when people are showing love and support.  They also know when people are doing the opposite.  They are amazing creatures.  You are so right.  We need to focus on the good.  We need to love Nicanor and cheer him on.  He will sense it.  I think a lot of people have lost site of the real aspect of horseracing.  When a horse is treated right by his/her owners, trainers, riders and jockeys and is loved by the fans at what ever caliber they are racing, they can sense it.  There are too many people wrapped up in the money and the fact that if the horse doesn't perform, they are not wanted.  The horse can sense that too.  

I so agree with you.  Nicanor needs our support.  We FINALLY  AGAIN have a horse in the industry that is loved by people that can't stand racing.  What does that tell you.  It tells me that he is a very special horse.  He needs love and support, not negativity.  He is a horse yes but he is also a very smart horse (all of them are).  Negativity is what will kill it all.  There is enough of that in the world and in this country. From where I stand, I see a very loved and popular horse win or not.  Isn't that what is the most important in the end.  Isn't that what will keep the people wanting to see this continue?  

Go Nicanor.  You have so much love and you couldn't be with a better team of humans.  You are in the best of hands and your jockey knows just what to do with you on the track.  He too is more concerned for your well being than the million dollar purse.  That is what needs to come back to the racing industry if it is going to make it.  

Stardust,

You have "people" in Washington?  Please elaborate.  I hate to say it but you sound like a PETA plant.

I may be working on adrenalin due to off shift hours, but my personal opinion is that Stardust probably isn't PETA as she didn't heave a big one when I said I was a meat eater in a blog 3 or 4 blogs back. No, I believe she is someone who has seen too many horses die on the track. Barbaro truly messed me up. When Eight Belles went down, I went shopping to take my mind off the situation. As sad as Eight Belles death was, I wasn't going to repeat the scenario.

And although I am not a fan of everything PETA and Greenpeace does, they do bring up the occasional issue that probably should have been addressed 100 years ago.

Amanda, hope I am not being too controversial.

SL

No I have nothing do do with PETA.  Kathy is right.  I have seen way too many fatalities on the track.  I do know people that work in DC and I do have some knowedge about what they are doing with a variety of things.  I just cannot stand it when people come to a blog dedicated to a beautiful horse that has drawn people to the sport even when they "don't like" the sport and slam Nicanor.  I love the whole FOB family and the horses.  

I am truly a horse lover and want what is best for the horse.  I could care less about the finish line.  I just want the horses to be OK and happy horses.  

aduckworth

Sorry if I have contributed to anything negative.  I try not to.  I try to just not let stuff get to me but sometimes, I lose my cool and my feathers get ruffled.  :)  This blog is such a good blog for people that love Barbaro and the family.  We need to keep it that way.  Sometimes it is hard to have a debate with people because they don't know how to debate.  They just attack.  Big difference.  The three presidential debates are a good example.  :)

Stardust, I cannot figure out what it is you are saying.  

You love horses.  Check.

You think that racehorses are mistreated.  Check.

You want racetracks closed.  Check.

You want horse slaughter stopped.  Check.

Horse connections are cruel.  Check.

Anyone who thinks that Nicanor isn't the second coming of Barbaro is a troll.  Check.

You don't care if racehorses are any good at racing.  Check.

People that you know in Washington are anti-racing.  Check.

So what is it you are wanting to happen?  Yes, you LOVE horses, but your comments are all over the place.  Everyone here loves horses.  To say that Nicanor hasn't shown much isn't slamming him.  I don't understand how Nicanor is the "people's horse."  Most racing people don't praise him to the skies, and people who are not into racing haven't heard of him and don't know who he is.

Again, I don't understand what it is you think should happen, and I don't understand your threats that Washington could close tracks and kill racing.

SL OK now I am dizzy.  I only want for the racehorses to be treated well and not pushed.  I am against horse slaughter.  I do feel that a majority of the owners and trainers are not really that concerned with the horse but more for the purse.  I am all for "honest racing" with the honest people on the team with the horses.  That is why I respect Edgar and Matz.  I am not very keen on racing a two year old.  They have not deveoped yet and IMO should not be raced until they are older.  

SOME horse connections are very nice.  SOME are cruel.  It is my belief that many more are cruel than not.  

SOME of the people that I know in DC are anti-racing.  SOME are not.  The majority is against it.  The majority of the Nation is against it.  

Again.  to answer your questions.  I don't think ALL are bad.  The key word is SOME.  I would copy your post and answer your questions but I didn't figure that out until now. :)  No I don't think racing should be shut down.  I feel that the people should put the horse first.  Care for the horse and if the horse does not make it then find a good home for the horse and not send the horse to an auction or leave the horse to die in a field.  That happens a lot.  THAT is what I am against.  

I want to adress the people who think horse racing is cruel and should be banned.  If that's the case let's ban everything that's cruel to animals this includes: killing animals for food and we can all be vegans, stop using animals in medical research and start using humans, boycott zoos, animal parks and places like Sea World because the animals there are locked up in cages as compared to them running in the wild or swimming in the open ocean.  

I can go on and on but I think I made my point.

I had hoped that Nicky would have blown the field away but it wasn't meant to be.  Whether the grabbed quarter made a diference or he is not the horse his brother was doesnt really mater. He has given all of us here something and that is hope. Hope in our sport, the hope to dream for another champion. If he is not to be that champion, so be it. We will still love him for who he is, the catalyst who brought us all together for the love of this beautiful horse and we will continue to love him if he retires 0-20. He has helped breath life back into our sport when we had lost faith at the loss of Barbaro.  God bless you Nicanor and keep on running. Be safe and have fun. You will always be a champion in my heart and I don't think we have seen the best of you yet.  You are my champion. Thanks to you too, Edgar, for taking care of him the other day.  Keep up the good work.  We owe you so much.

Thanks Wanda! My memory fails me at times.  Totally agree that to look at you could not get more different horses than Nijinsky II and The Minstrel!  But they both had great hearts and tremendous class!  They were brilliant racehorses and stallions too as i am sure everyone would agree!

Rags to Riches is my all time second favourite filly/mare behind the immortal Dahlia!!!  Spent a lot of time on "Rags'" brilliant blog site last year and watched all her races on the videos on the internet many times!  Heartily endorse all the favourable comments made about her!  Think feisty is an understatement though from what I read!  As i adore Giants Causeway too can't wait to see the foal race!!!!!!!!!!!!

God Bless all you horse lovers out there; particularly those working to improve their lot!

Have a good rest Nicanor, heal well and better luck next time!

All the best and take care boy,

Abbie Knowles

He wins to me just on his looks.  :-)

Abbie Knowles

I love Rags too.  She is my favorite next to Winning Colors and Ruffian.  She is a really snippy gal with an attitude but hey I guess she earned it.  She is pretty cool (I think the Belmont got to her head a bit) LOL.  Beating the Horse of the Year.  HA!  That was great.  Nothing against Curlin, he is a good horse too but I loved it when Rags took that race.  Love the way she pins her ears back when people try to get near her.  She holds her ground and lets people know where she stands.  Can't wait to see her baby.  :)

As for Nicanor.  I have said this many times.  I don't care how he does on the track (I would like to see him become succesful racing) but I still love him JUST the way he is.  I don't think that the Jacksons will put him in any type of claiming race.  This is Nicanor.  Very special horse and everyone knows it.  He will have a very good life because of his connections and that is what all horses need.  

As far as no one knowing who this horse is, well I dissagree.  I think most of the people in the racing industry surly know and the thing about Nicanor is he is loved by people that "can't stand" racing.  How many horses besides Barbaro have accomplished THAT!

Chris

Right that is why when they took Keiko to Iceland he would not leave the pool.  They tried to get him to go out to the ocean and he kept coming back.  He loved being around people.  

It is not cruel to have animals in a zoo.  They get a lot of love and attention.  It is not cruel to use mice and rats for experiements.  They don't care.  WHAT IS cruel is to drug a horse that is in pain so they can run without feeling the pain,  OR to drug a horse to make them run faster.  The horse does not have a say in what people put in their body.  It is cruel to throw the horses to the wolves when they can't win money for their people anymore.  The very least that these owners could do is make sure that their horses have a good home to go to if they don't do well on the track or as a stud or broodmare.  Most of them don't though.  They just dump them and walk away making it "someone elses" problem.  That is why there are so many rescue centers set up and people like me helping these horses find good and happy homes.  I am not alone here.  There are many that are doing the very same thing.  Helping the race horse that couldn't hit the board and saving it.  Thank YOU Barbaro!!!!!!!

Stardust, are you the moderator?

What horses have you saved?  Are you with a rescue center?

Kathy.  

"January 16, 2009

The 111th Congress got off to a galloping start for America's horses with the introduction of legislation to end the slaughter of American horses for human consumption in the U.S. and abroad.

The Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2009 (H.R. 503) was introduced by House Judiciary Committee Chairman Representative John Conyers (D-MI) and Representative Dan Burton (R-IN) just days into the new Congress, demonstrating their strong commitment to move this legislation through the process as quickly as possible and spare horses from bring transported to foreign slaughterhouses."

Thank-You Barbaro.  :)

Abbie Knowles: I was lucky enough to see Flaming Page's sire when he was 20 yrs old. He came out of the stallion barn on his hind legs! He was very hard to handle even at that age and the handler said he was that way all his life. You can see where all that desire to run came from.

SL

No I am not the moderator. I don't have a rescue center but I am going to get something going. Actually it will just be a place for horses to run and be horses.  I have saved a couple of Arbians, and about 5 TB's with getting them into a private home.  

From my experience, I have found that the HARDEST part about this is NOT the funding to get the horse from point A to point B. The hardest part is to "find a place" to put the horses.  This is why it is very important that we people that are into this, do everything we can (whether it be open our own resue center, have friends that have land, know people that have the time to take care of horses, etc.) to get more and more places ready for these horses.  

I have a friend that has a 400 acre farm for horses.  His horses are show horses.  He however is a very kind and considerate man and he lets me put horses on his property until either he or I can find them a permanent home.  The horses that I ususally deal with are ones that are no longer wanted by the owners and if I don't take them, and put them somewhere, they get sent to an aution. I have got a couple out of auction but it is easier to catch the horse BEFORE it goes to aution and house the horse.  That way, you don't have all of those deadlines and monetary expenses.  I haven't done this for awhile because I have been so wrapped up with Obama's campaine but now that he is in office, I am back home and able to use some of my extra time to help these horses that nobody wants.  

It really makes me angry when there is a 4 year old TB that is perfectly fine, just doesn't perform well on the track and the owners want to just shuck them.  THAT is something that we are trying to get into law to where they cannot do that.  I feel that it is the responsibilty of the "owners" to find a GOOD home for their race horses if they can't race well.  That would help a lot.  

We have too many unwanted horses now.  Congress is on the brink of making it to where there is "no more" overseas transport.  Can you imagine the horses that are going to need homes?  Thousands.  

My adgenda in the ultimate end is to have a couple of my own places where horses can call it home where they can just be happy horses.  I am not good with horses that need a lot of medical care.  That is a lot of work. I like to take the ones that are kicked to the curb because they haven't been hitting the board and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them other than they aren't good on the track and help them.  There are so many of those that it is crazy.  

This has all been talked about RE: these owners of these race horses and the fact that they should not be able to just dump the horse.  It is their horse, they need to find a good home for it if it cannot perform or isn't a good racehorse.  This is a big problem and people are outraged about this.  

This is one of the things that has upset a lot of people RE: racing.  They are upset about the fatalites but even more upset that the owners don't care enough about their horses to make sure they have a good life if they can't race.  Again, this applies to not all owners of race horses.  However the number is overwhelming of owners that could care less if their horse is not making money and that to me is cruel and very sad.  :(

Wanda.  I stallion coming at me on his hind legs is a stallion that will make me climb a tree LOL.  WOW.  Nope.  Not for me.  The horse wins on that one LOLOL!

Chris

I worked in a zoo in Japan for a while.  When we turned the dolphins loose, they all came back.  We would throw live fish into their tank and they would not eat it.  They swam away.  They wanted the fish from the bucket that we had that was full of fish that had been caught.  Same went fot the monkeys.  They didn't want to go anywhere either.  One followed me around and snatched my purse and went up a tree.  I could go on but I think I have made my point. :)

Stardust--Slight re-post from another blog----you have made far too comments--most in a row

Read---

OK lets set the record straight to those not in the business or no-nothing

-HORSES were ""not"" either by by evolution or God meant to have 110 LB human on their back running at full speed. Also they were not conceived/planned to run around oval shapes one way only all the time.

EVEN horses know enough to look for cover on rainy days or huddle together on cold days, and not expend energy on hot ones. Should we close on those days? Next post or topic should be that one if the rhetorical and redundant  idea of this one is a topic. Yes everyone wishes for better treatment of horses-duh! But, lets be real at the same time.

The animals are bred to race-they are not work horses, pets, or compared to other breeds of horse smarter or friendlier no matter what some writers stories that are pasted on about thoroughbreds. They are fragile animals compared to other horse breeds and they were 100 or 200 "0r" 25 years ago """IF""" you are comparing to other horse breeds. If they didn't race (or jump or in some other form of competition) they would not exist. Hardier, smarter horses would be used and let these fast but otherwise not overly useful breed except for competition die out.

As to whip-I am definitely on limits but it is useful and necessary in the game. Maybe you should try riding in a horse race when your horse tries to bolt over the outside fence without a whip or lugs-in maybe wiping out 4 others and kills 2 jocks.

Sorry, I love horses. but I rather see 200 horses die than one jockey.

I'm human and keep that perspective in place. In the end racehorses are better treated and cared for than any animals on earth save cats and dogs. Actually they do much better than some 3rd world humans. When did you blog about the killings in Africa or give a displaced person a bed in your home? How many put their parents in nursing homes? GROW UP PEOPLE! Who get soooooooo serious about horses.

Let the sport be fair-no drugs et.-but it is not all-important and some horses like humans don't get a fair shake-it's life.

Ace, and some of the rest of you:  Why do you come to this website if not just to put the horse and those of us who love him, down?  WHat do you get out of that?  Those of us who love Nicanor, Lentenor, and Babynor (not mine, someone else over on ABR coined that term) come here to express our support and love for those horses.  What is your purpose for coming here?

Marigold I answered your question about hype.

OK as posted many times I like horses and unlike many have owned, trained, and cared for them. Worked for a number of tracks in different jobs from management to the backstretch.

I wish this horse and his connections well like so many others--but I am a realist--Read my last post and my others!

The anger from other to people like you (Marigold) and Stardust is you no little and you are making your cases to people that do. When I claim a $8K claimer I don't expect to win a stake. 10th place maiden starters don't run or win Derbies in 3 months time.

Horse meat tastes good to some, the fact is if they kill in a humane way I have no problems with it or the culling of the deer population when they get out of hand----Just don't kill for no good reason and don't torture the animal. Too bad they don't ship horse meat to countries that have starving people.

Again, as above I care far more for humans than animals. In no way does that effect the fact I love my dogs and horses---just in perspective.

OK the whip on a race horse is used for two reasons.  One (which is actually the only reason in my opinion should be) is to keep the horse on track so they don't travel all over the track.  I get it with the rythem and the fact they are not neck reigned trained.  To whip a horse that has run out of gas is not cool.  It will not make the horse go any faster.  When the horses are tired, they are tired.  I do understand the use of the whip for the stride and the rythem but that is IT!

As for the jockey.  THEY make the choice to get on that horse.  The horses don't get to make any choices.  Big difference.  It is the horses that are making the money BUT in the end it is the horse that gets kicked to the curb.  How fair is THAT?  I am for the horse.  Yeah they were bred to run.  Let them run.  But let them run at their pace and their development, not a humans pace.  Horses need to be horses.  Just let THEM be the ones that decide when they are ready and strong enough to race!  

As for the whip.  Well I adressed that a while ago.  THAT should be the ONLY reason for that.  I have seen welts on horses that made me so mad because of the use of that whip.  They don't deserve to be hit that hard.  There is a difference beween tapping the horse to make them run where you want then to and whipping them to the wire.  BIG DIFFERENCE!  I have also had race horses before that we were able to train with the reigns. It isn't that hard to do.  it just takes patience.  

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

That is me being mum on all of the remarks I said I was going to be mmmmmmmmmum on.

Thanks you for your opinions dear people.

Kathy.  LOL  You're funny.  :)

Kathy.  I think there is a ghost hanging around.  Are you afraid of ghosts?  LOL....... :)

Stardust:  I like everything you have to say about horses exp. when stating facts about why people love Nicanor and the non racing fans...Barbaro brought us together and today we love the brothers and the unborn.  People have a hard time understanding that...

Marigold

Because they are bored and have nothing better to do that put down the most beautiful horse since the demise of Barbaro.  Just ignore that stuff.  Pretend it is not in English and just keep scrolling.  You don't need to waist a second of your time reaing negaive comments about the FOB family in a Nicanor site.  :)  You are better than that.  

Marc W

Is there someone on this blog with that name.  I swore my eyes were playing tricks with me.  Hmmmmmmm weird.  I need a nap.  :)  been up too long.  

Marc W

I had a race horse that we got off the track and turned him into a pleasure horse and within 6 months he was trained with the reigns, going over small jumps and riding western.  He also was a very cool pet.  :)  So your notion of the race horse not being a pet is nonsense.  There are a lot of them that are and "could be" very nice pets IF they were treated right.  

Ragsy

We GET IT. :)  Barbaro did an amazing thing.  He was a wonderful racehorse yeah we all know that BUT what he has accomplished after the injury and through the FOB's is astonishing.  Look at all of the horses that are now in homes that were on a slaugher feed lot or ready to go to one.  Because of Barbaro, there are no more slaughter houses in the US.  Soon it will be they can' t go abroad either.  

The breeding needs to be looked at.  the OWNERS need to be responsible with THEIR horses.  That is the bottom line.  Just think if all of the owners of the race horses found good homes for all of their horses after they don't race, how much better things would be.  

If people don't think that our new administraton in Washington is talking about this, they better think again.  There are people that CARE about these horses.  They really tired of the breakdowns.  They are at the end of the road with patience.  

Nicanor is THE horse and Lenntanor that has brought love and joy back into racing.  I have talked to people that never watch horse racing but they love Nicanor.  THAT is a amazing and he didn't even hit the board.  Yeah I would tend to say that the demise of Barbaro has changed racing forever.  More and more things are happening RE: the saftey of the horses.  Racing can be a good sport but it has to be honest.  The people that own, train and ride these horses need to be honest.  If they keep on messing up, there will come a day where they will be looking for another job.  The population of this country is going to make the final decision through Congress.  It doesn't take a lot of people to make noise to the RIGHT people.  :)

Nicanor, Lenntanor, Barbaro and OMG the new baby colt are the best thing that has happened for the HORSES EVER!  :)

All I have to say is that any horse that is racing his fool head off, regardless of whether said horse brings home the bacon, is a working fool. The clydesdale horses that pull that beer wagon or greet visitors at a zoo are workers. If you have to wash them because they are a little sweaty, they work for a living.

And whether the work beasts of this world are also pets all depends on how keepers of these animals interpret the term pet. If you can't look beyond a race horse as also being a work animal, you are going to have a hard time grasping the term of pet.  

And  

I have never really tried to be mean on sites as these although sometimes sarcastic--not once on this posting until the blabber got ridiculous -but when I see someone putting 3 and 4 posts consecutively and 12 of the last 20 --

I see someone that has

A) too much time on their hands which usually means unemployed or not working on their job the way they should

B) Thinks they have to dominate and ruin others thoughts by knocking out of context thoughtful replies by flooding replies and dulling thoughts to ruin the crispness of the blog.

Congrats Stardust-you ruin blogs like this and turned a racehorse into a pet two accomplishments-I have had at least 20 horses I raced ( Many 100's I have worked with)---1 and only one was well mannered enough to turn into a jumper.  In the other racing game-I had one classy old trotter that won about 20 races for myself and a partner so I made sure he found a good home with some Amish people the needed a buggy horse.

If they kill horses for tables in Europe or dog food here as long as it is done humanely I have no problems with it. Pigs are far smarter (and lovable if you ever had one for a pet) and we don't cry or show outrage for them. YES I have a problem with a classy old horse that makes 1/2 million not be found a nice home. Again I love horses, but some poorly bred racehorse with no talent and there are far too many to save them all. Better in a needy stomach than eating up money or in a landfill.

I have done work for Big Brothers in my past-(Had 3 Boys) and visit older people in retirement homes without families, I showed the boys horses and bring my dog and baby son went to the retirement homes. TIME FAR BETTER SPENT than worrying too much about horses---these are humans people!!!!!! Get with the program.

Bottom line --the blog was about Nicanor and his race not about the well being of horses in general. He ran poorly, maybe hurt himself a little.

As before I wish he does well because of his connections--those talking Derby ---lets not be so nice here--take a pill, park your cloud. Lets hope he turns into a nice horse and latter a sire but he IS NOT going to run in the KY Derby. I think it is-- off his first race excuses or not, unlikely he will win his second start. Hope I am wrong, doubt it.

I started my first post on topic as pity I responded to those who strayed and somebody who just talks/posts to hear herself-my bad

Marc W

Maybe you are one of the people that has a heart, I don't know.  I do know what is going on with things being dicussed in Washington.  If you are one of the good and honest owners/trainers then great.  We need more of ya.  

The problem is a majority of people don't care if their horse is not coming in the money and they get kicked to the curb.  As for other countries, our new president is focused on THIS country right now.  That should be an easy one for you.  It is what is going on in the states that they are looking at.  Forget about the other countries.  Bush is gone.

I don't want to make this a political debate but I do have ears.  One on each side of my head. :)

Stardust, if you are so enamoured of these colts, can you at least spell their names correctly? For god sakes, LENTENOR is right at the top of the page!

This is a blog and a message board about Nicanor and LENTENOR and not about your fake political BS. Bush is gone and Obama has more important things to worry about than if a horse breaks down on a racetrack or goes to a good home. So knock off your know-it-all tripe and let the discussion get back to Nicanor and his racing, and Lentenor and his training, as the authors of this blog intended. If you want to have a political discussion, I'm sure there are plenty of blowhards who will read your garbage on cnn.com.

You are not the Queen of All Horse Racing so stop pretending!!

Marc W

Like owner like horse.  If your horses cannot do well as pets then I would wonder why.  

Marc W

It is my opinion that if I were a horse, I would not want you to be my trainer or owner.  I would want the love that Nicanor, Lenntanor and Barbaro have.  I wouldn' want to be on someones dinner table.  It doesn't matter whether an owner has one or a hundred horses.  If they can't find good homes for them, then they shouldn't have them PERIOD!.  They are way more deserving than that.  

I really wish people would give Nicanor a chance to prove himself.  If he doesn't win, it will probably be for one of two reasons.

1.  He has a jockey that has enough love for him that he won't WHIP him to the wire if his is injured just for the money.

2.  He doesn't WANT to be a racehorse.  Nicanor is a lucky horse.  He has OWNERS that CARE about their horses.  I have enough time im my life to type a few comments for 15 minutes a couple times a day.  I am not one that has 20 horses that I can't take care of.  If I had 20 horses, I wouldn't be on this blog at all, I would be with my horses.  :)

Marc W you can tell people like Stardust how childish and crazy they are acting buy they will never listen because they live in there own little world. Stardust and Mike R. really believe there fantasies.

 Stardust, congress isn't going to do whatever you want them to. This is a horse racing website not PETA. We don't care how much you love horses as pets. I'm not afraid to be myself. I grew up on food stamps and was abused by multiple people but I don't pretend to own horses or train them like you and yor little buddies. I'm not saying I'm perfect, far from it. I've been in and out of jail because I acted out when I was younger but at least I know who I am.

Concerned Fan

I will spell Lenntanor anyway I want to.  You have no idea who I am.  We all know what horse I am talkin about when I talk about Barbaro's brothers.  You are not the boss here so go back to your fantisy of thinking that the public is going to put up with the breakdowns and the cruel owners.  Believe me I am not with PETA.  Not even close.  :)

Tim

You are right, Congress isn't going to do what I want them to do.  They are going to do what the American people want them to do and what THEY want to do.  :)

Tim Congrats to you.  I am very proud that you know who you are.  That is a good start :)  

As for the other naysayers on this blog, please go back to your little corners where your opinion makes a difference.  It doesn't here.  It is apparent that you naysayers don't care AT ALL about what happens to the horse after they can't race anymore.  Run along now.  This is not the place for you guys to be.  If you are smart enough to read then you should be smart enough to know what is "really" going on.  I cannot believe how ignornant some of thees people are on this blog. My eyes and ears are wide open and I know what "most people" are saying. I don't live at a racetrack and I don't really care for the way a lot of the horses are treated when they can't race anymore.  Concerned FAN or concerned for your future?  :)  

Man how many times does this need to be posted before people start to GET IT LOL............

The 111th Congress got off to a galloping start for America's horses with the introduction of legislation to end the slaughter of American horses for human consumption in the U.S. and abroad.

The Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2009 (H.R. 503) was introduced by House Judiciary Committee Chairman Representative John Conyers (D-MI) and Representative Dan Burton (R-IN) just days into the new Congress, demonstrating their strong commitment to move this legislation through the process as quickly as possible and spare horses from bring transported to foreign slaughterhouses."

Here is the Act:

A BILL

To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit certain conduct relating to the use of horses for human consumption.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2008'.

SEC. 2. SLAUGHTER OF HORSES FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.

(a) In General- Chapter 3 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`Sec. 50. Slaughter of horses for human consumption

`(a) Except as provided in subsection (b), whoever knowingly--

`(1) possesses, ships, transports, purchases, sells, delivers, or receives, in or affecting interstate commerce or foreign commerce, any horse with the intent that it is to be slaughtered for human consumption; or

`(2) possesses, ships, transports, purchases, sells, delivers, or receives, in or affecting interstate commerce or foreign commerce, any horse flesh or carcass or part of a carcass, with the intent that it is to be used for human consumption;

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years or both.

`(b) If--

`(1) the defendant engages in conduct that would otherwise constitute an offense under subsection (a);

`(2) the defendant has no prior conviction under this section; and

`(3) the conduct involves less than five horses or less than 2000 pounds of horse flesh or carcass or part of a carcass;

the defendant shall, instead of being punished under that subsection, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

`(c) The Attorney General shall provide for the humane placement or other humane disposition of any horse seized in connection with an offense under this section.

`(d) As used in this section, the term `horse' means any member of the family Equidae.'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for chapter 3 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

`50. Slaughter of horses for human consumption.'.

MODERATOR

Could you look at these posts and bar "Stardust"?

She is  posting far too many and consecutive posts. It destroys the thought and flow of topics. Most of her posts are off topic.

I am not trying to hurt someone nor find her posts vulgar--but they do ruin and inhibit conversations and ideas of others.

You are right.  I am NOT the "Queen of Horseracing".  I am all for the horses saftey.  I don't care about the finish line.  I don't bet and I could care less if a horse comes in 1rst or last.  They are all beautiful horses.  I am totally in agreement that I am not the "Queen of Horseracing".  I wouldn't want that label. I am the "Queen of helping the Horses" and nailing these trainers/owners that neglect their horses.  THAT is what I am here to do.  Hats off to the Jacksons, Matz and Edgar.  There are still a few HONEST people in this industry.  :)

Amanda.  How is Nicanor doing?  Do you know when he will race again?  I wonder if Matz will put him on the turf next time.  

This is only February.  I wonder if there really is a way that he could make it into the Derby.  ????

Thanks Amanda.  I am glad that Matz is taking his time.  That shows his love for the horse.  I wish that all trainers were like he is.  He is such a good man and trainer.  I hope Nicanor is enjoying his apples, oats, and all of the love that he is getting.  He is such a pretty horse.  I cannot get over the way that he, Lentanor and Barbaro are virtually the same color.  That is so cool.  

Stardust, are you the same person who has been banned from other boards for causing trouble and lying about everything?  

I have never been banned from any boards.  I do not lie about anything.  :)

Stardust said:

"Man how many times does this need to be posted before people start to GET IT LOL............

The 111th Congress got off to a galloping start for America's horses with the introduction of legislation to end the slaughter of American horses for human consumption in the U.S. and abroad.

The Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2009 (H.R. 503) was introduced by House Judiciary Committee Chairman Representative John Conyers (D-MI) and Representative Dan Burton (R-IN) just days into the new Congress, demonstrating their strong commitment to move this legislation through the process as quickly as possible and spare horses from bring transported to foreign slaughterhouses." "

#1 - How exactly does this prevent breakdowns on the track?

#2 - This bill, if it passes, will have no teeth because of this -

"(c) The Attorney General shall provide for the humane placement or other humane disposition of any horse seized in connection with an offense under this section."

What do you suppose the Attorney General is going to do - (1) hold these horses indefinitely for "humane placement," or (2) slaughter them under the auspices of "humane disposition?" My guess is Door Number Two.

PETA and other animal rights groups cut their nose off here when they forced closure of the slaughterhouses in the United States. At least when the slaughterhouse was relatively close, the horses could be transported and slaughtered humanely. Now, they are still transported and slaughtered, but they are loaded onto trucks, packed in like sardines, and driven sometimes thousands of miles to Canada or Mexico, where God-Knows-What will happen to them, if they survive the trip. The volume of slaughter has not dropped, it's just been moved. Besides that, I just bought a truckload of horses at auction - they are going to live on my ranch. PROVE I'm driving them to slaughter.

IF this bill passes, what happens to the horses who would not be going to slaughter? Are you going to take care of them? Do you really expect that the government is going to hold these horses on a pretty little farm somewhere, just waiting for someone to adopt them and give them a good home? Volunteer groups can't manage to get this done in any great volume, do you really expect that the government is going to do a better job? They can't even manage a few hundred mustangs!

I love horses too, and it is very sad that any of them have to be slaughtered at all. But now groups like PETA and others have forced Congress to eliminate all possibility of having it done here in the U.S., in a humane manner. now Congress is trying to cover its posterior with this bill that, if it passes, will be worthless.

Stardust,

      Your cover is blown. We all know your real name is Ann Coulter. Or is it Michelle Malkin? This is the Bloodhorse not Fixed News.

I don't believe I've ever heard of conservative PETA members before. I believe that is what is known as an oxymoron.

All I can say, and I don't really care what anyone thinks or says, is that it is going to be a long 4 to 5 weeks not hearing too much about Nicanor with all this bickering going on. It is a good thing I am full of sunshine, affable and agreeable to put up with this @?.%$.

Nicanor get well soon!!!

I'll talk about Nicanor.  Kathy.  Do you  like the blaze on his forehead.  I always thought that Lentanor looks a lot more like Barbaro than Nicanor.  How about you?  

I am as much of a Peta member as I am Osama Bin Laden.  :)

I don't get it why people even care who I am.  I just love the family of Barbaro.  I always have.  This is really starting to get very chidesh.  

Concerned Fan.  

PETA has nothing to do with this bill HR 503.  It was Gretchin Jackson that brought that up and wanted US FOB's to work on it with Congress.  It was "her" idea. She asked us to do this and we as a huge group helped get it done.

We also are as a huge group going to deal with the other issues to help these horses.  There have been thousands of horses in new homes because of Barbaro and the FOB's.  

The next thing we are going to work on is finding a way to get these horses placed.  Don't EVER underestimate the power of a Fan of Barbaro.  We are a very strong group!  We will win in the end.  

Where are you getting this PETA stuff?  This was started by Roy and Gretcen Jackson when Barbaro was put down.  Those are the facts!  Now your going to start saying bad things about Barbaro, Nicanor and Lentanors OWNERS?  UN-REAL!  

They and Matz and and Dean Richardson and Edgar are WONDERFUL people.

Nicoanor hope your enjoying your unconditional love.  

I'ves always thought his blaze to be unique, sort of like how Picasso would have painted a star on a painting. Lentenor's blaze is closer to Barbaro's, but there is still a little brown in the middle of his.

This is so much more fun to talk about.

I've never said anything bad about Barbaro, Nicanor, or Lentenor (whose name I can spell correctly - if you have so much respect for Gretchen Jackson, use the name SHE gave the colt!). I praise the Jacksons, Matz is my hero and I always try to follow his trainees, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for Edgar Prado. I don't think I've ever said otherwise.

But I'm tired of your "insider information" "They're watching Nicanor and they're gonna shut down horse racing" BS. I believe it as much as the man in the moon.

Now answer my question, you are the one saying that "[unnamed] people are getting tired of all the breakdowns." How, exactly does this bill prevent breakdowns? I don't see "FOBs" lining up behind you - I see YOU blowing a lot of hot air, puffing up your own self-importance, and ruining a perfectly good message board about an awesome family of horses.

Kathy.  Lentanors little star on his forehead is "almost' a spitting image of Barbaro.  I like Nicanors blaze. What I find very interesting is that all three of these horses are EXACTLY the same color.  That is so cool.  :)  Something tells me in my gut that Lentanor is going to be more like Barbaro than Nicanor is.  Do you get that same feeling?  :)

Concerned Fan.  I am done talking to you.  I am a FOB and that is what I always will be.  

By FOB, do you mean "Fan of Barbaro" as you stated here -

"The next thing we are going to work on is finding a way to get these horses placed.  Don't EVER underestimate the power of a Fan of Barbaro.  We are a very strong group!  We will win in the end."

I'm not an official member of an official group, but even *I* know that the group is FRIENDS OF BARBARO. SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!!!

I don't entirely understand all the talk about the mile race not being a good place for Nicanor.  How do we know that?  He was eased up well before the mile finish line.  This guy can't catch a break. The trolls say he hasn't any ability whatsoever.

It is not like he didn't try.  Michael says he is VERY competitive.

I saw that in his debut.  Come on guys, have you never tripped over your own feet? Would you want some momentary clumsiness to dictate expectations about you and send you off to be castrated?  Of course not!  There were a lot of exenuating circumstances here. He'll be fine.  Let's not geld him just yet!  

H.R. 503 was introduced in the House in FEBRUARY 2005, before Barbaro ever set foot on a racetrack. It was NOT "started by the Jacksons after Barbaro was put down." It passed the house in SEPTEMBER 2006, which was well before Barbaro was euthanized. It seems to have some trouble passing the Senate though, so "as good as passed" is not exactly the case.

H.R.503

Title: To amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption, and for other purposes.

Sponsor: Rep Sweeney, John E. [NY-20] (introduced 2/1/2005)      Cosponsors (203)

This veterinarian (Bonnie V. Beaver, DVM, MS, Diplomate ACVB, Past President, American Veterinary Medical Association) sums up exactly what I was trying to say in my EXTREMELY layman's terms. Here are her bullet points, you can read her testimony in its entirety here:

republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/.../Beaver.pdf

The AVMA opposes HR 503, The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act.

• HR 503 fails to adequately address the unintended consequences of imposing a ban on the processing of horses.

• The Penetrating Captive Bolt Gun causes instantaneous death and is an acceptable form of euthanasia for horses.

• Transportation of Horses to Slaughter is highly regulated by the USDA. The transportation

guidelines were developed with input from the AVMA, AAEP, other horse groups, the Humane Society of the United States, and other animal protection groups.

• Welfare is the biggest concern of the AVMA for those horses that would be impacted by a ban on horse slaughter.

• There are not enough rescue and retirement facilities, and these facilities are not regulated so

there is no way to ensure that the horses would get adequate care.

• The legislation does not address the financial support required to care for the horses given up by their owners.

• The legislation does not address the disposal of over 90,000 horse carcasses if horse

slaughter is banned.

republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/.../Beaver.pdf

Marigold

This was ONE race.  Nicanor was injured coming out of the gate.  I don't understand why people are not seeing what is right in front of him.  Suppose he had to be scratched because of another reason like maybe a fever or being sick.  THEN people would be putting him down for that.  

I believe that Nicanor is a wonderful horse and has a lot of talent.  I also believe that he has the best team to take care of him.  People need to give him a break.  We love him for who he is.  As I have said before, I would like to see him win but even if he doesn't, he still has my love and always will.  After all, he is Nicanor.  That speaks for itself.  :)  He has a huge fan base and always will.  

He needs to run his own races without being compared to his brother.  That is just too much pressure for his connections.

Bravo, Marigold - I think some are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Fortunately, I think his connections are smarter than that. They have been slow and cautious with Nicanor up to this point, I don't see them making any snap decisions in his future. Their cooler heads will prevail in this situation, and they made the decisions - ours are just opinions!

Wait a minute, wait a minute,

P

o

 u

  n

   c

    e

       Had to move over as I

       didn't want to have  

       someone pounce

       as I write my response to

       you Marigold.

       I personally believe

       Nicanor would have done

       better had he not boo-

       booed his front hoof.

       Would he have won? Who

       knows, but he would have

       done better. Nicanor is

       still a kid.

       Lentenor is more likely

       to race as a two year old

       because he already

       appears to be more grown

       up than Nicanor. In this

       way I believe he is like

       Barbaro.

       M.M has already said that

       Nicanor is more like

       Barbaro in his

       personality.

With that said, I hope both horse kick tush and prove people wrong because the racing industry truly needs a shot in the arm. And wouldn't it be nice if the Barbaro siblings can do it for them.

Look what night shift hours do to you, Stardust asks you something and you put Marigold's name down. Sorry Stardust.

Amanda, consider it done.  :)

I want to talk about the blazes on the two horses Nicanor and Lentanor.  I am really excited that these horses look so much like Barbaro in color and those blazes are so cool.  I still want a filly.  

My apologies for belaboring the point, Amanda - I hope I've made my true point here. Claims made should be able to be backed up. In this case, it can't.

I also apologize to FANS of Barbaro - I was mistaken.

Kathy.  On the top of Nicnanors head with the white.  That looks identical to Barbaro.  The only difference is the bottom part where Nicanor has a lot more of a white streak where Barbaro only had tht spot on his nose.  It is amazing how much the same that top part is.  

Re the blazes on the Brother's faces:

Barbaro's looked like a bleeding heart, Nicanor's looks like an hourglass, and Lentenor's looks like a radish.  Let's see what Babynor's looks like, for he's sure to have one, too.

I agree that Lentenor is maturing rapidly -- that conformation and demeanor and presence are stunning.

Nicanor is just beautiful and so very sweet.  

How it will turn out, only God knows.  May He grant the connections wisdom in the care and training of this Band of very beautiful Brothers.

Marigold.  

I am kind of surprised that Lentanor does not have anything on his nose.  I wonder about that.  Your assesment is pretty darn accurate.  I never thought of Barbaro's as a bleeding heart until you mentioned it. I have his pictures all over my house and I always look at that on his forehead.  

Barbaro and Nicanor are pretty close to me.  I couldn't quite pin down the right name to call it. :)

I hope Stardust stays here on this board and doesn't go anywhere else.

I forgot to mention that both Barbaro and Lentenor have slips -- on opposte sides of their noses.  Just a little slash of white.These horses ae just so beautiful and so sweet natured.  Both traits from their lovely mother.

Marigold I saw that over in mommys webiste. I never have seen Lentanors spot on the nose.  I guess I haven't seen a pic of him on with that yet.  WOW if he does they he would really be close to Barbaro in looks. All three of thes horses are so much like mom.  More so than Dynaformer in looks.  :)

Christy.  Why would you say that? LOL  I go everywhere.  Both on and off the Internet.  How funny.  Sure would be a boring life to be on this board for 24 hours a day. :)  How cute.  

Kathy.  Did you read my poem?  I need to do a better one but I love my poem.  I forgot to put Peter in there darnet.  I'll think of another one before Saturday where I can put more time into it.  Love those over there.  Memory Lane is quite the ride.  :)  I love all of those over there.  So much talent.  

Amanda thanks.  You really come up with some cool ideas.  :)

Hi Stardust, Yes, I thought it was fantastic. Well, I am off work and heading home. See all in a bit.

Marigold

I wonder why Nicanor has the biggest white on his nose.  It is so much more than Barbaro, Lentanor and mom.  I have always wondered about that.  I do love it though.  It really does look like a painting.  

Nic is so beautiful, was so beautiful at his birth.  He has the most beautiful face and eyes.   Lentenor has a magnificent face, too.  His demeanor and presence are breathtaking.  I neede to correct the word slip and substitute the word snip. Right?

Althogh he lost, i still love him. it was only his first race and there was so much pressure on him! all he needs is sometime to figure out what he is doing. i know he will be stunning!!! I LOVE U NICANOR!!!!!!

Marigold

Mabe the word snip.  I love all of them.  The thing that amazes me is that Mom, Barbaro and Lentanor all three have the snip.  Nicanor has a big snip.  That is really cool.  I am so glad these horses are around.  It is fantastic that Barbaro is just continuing to go on and he didn't even sire.  Just amazing.  No other horse has ever done this.  We have a complete family of horses that are the bloodline of Barbaro and he is just running around in Heaven with is unconditional love making sure they all are loved and without a doubt famous.  Love them all.  :)

We're all entitled to our own opinions but the facts are, Nicanor lost his first aattempt BUT he had extenuating circumstances: he grabbed a quarter, was bumped (or the other way around) AND his jockey eased him up.  When he was allowed to express himself, he showed speed and heart and (a phrase that amuses me)a pretty good "turn of foot" up the inside.

There is ability there and, if he did learn something as Michael maintains, perhaps his second attempt will be the breakthrough. Oh how I hope so!  It will end a lot of this debate. (That is, unless the trolls want to insist that that was a fluke.)