10  Custom for Carlos Desormeaux K J $3.40  $2.60  $2.20  

9  Nicanor Lezcano J    $6.00  $4.40  

1  Discreet Street Douglas R R       $5.60  

4  Dubinsky Castellano J    

Woo Hoo !!!!  Nicanor finished safely and in the money!  SECOND !!!  He's getting there.  Feels good to have maintained faith in him  He'll do better and better.

Congratulations to all his connections, and congratulations Nicanor for showing them what faith and determination can do.

Can't wait for your next race, boy!

Yes! I knew Nicanor would improve his second time out :)

I watched and saw enjoyed Nicanor's fantastic progress. Could it be that once Nicanor starts going more than 4 or 5 furlongs in his workouts that he just might do much better than all of his negative-sayers think he is going to do?

Oohs and Ahs

You did great today and will do great in the future you beautiful son of a Dynaformer son.

Way to go Nicanor!!!!!!!!

Great effort by Nicanor.  You can tell he wants more distance.  He will improve next time.

Atta boy, Nicanor! Not bad! Can't wait to see the video.

Much better.  He's learning.  Good for you, Nicky.

Way to go Nicanor!!!!

Great job Nicanor. I'am so proud of you. Keep up the great work I love you From Alex of Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. :)

He put in a great effort this time. I hope he breaks his maiden next time out. He looked like he wants a mile, at least. :)

I knew it; he is a great horse.  I have HRTV but I could not watch it, too nervous.  I don't want anyone on this board to say anything bad about him again.  If you have to say something negative, go to another blog.  

Good job Nic !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll have to catch the video replay, congrats to all his connections and US! :-)

Greg J; Bet you had a BLAST !!!!!!

Very good job Nicky! Next time will be 1st!!!! :-)

Nicanor you are the best!  I am very impressed with about how much you have improved in your second race.  Now I can say for sure that you will become a great horse in the future.  I agree with what HRTV said today that you are going to break your maiden next time you race.  I am very happy right now.  The good thing is that you came out of the race ok.  Next time you will win for sure.  You have a lot of speed and stamina because you showed it today.  You remind me of your brother of how he was behind the lead and that is what you did.  I am very proud!  

How many times has Custom for Carlos run?

Yippee!!  We got ourselves a race horse!

YAY NIC! Great effort! I hope you will post a video replay here.

All right Nick! Movin' up in the world.

Great job Nicanor!!  We are all so proud of you!  Wonderful improvement.  

The real Nicanor appeared today. Mark my words, this is only the beginning. He has a solid family, the best connections, and heart. And we fans have something to celebrate again........it feels great. Congratulations to the Jacksons and Micheal Matz.

Way to go nic. Keep prado off him

Nice race Nicanor!! and it looks like the time was fast too 1:23.25 , which was faster then the 3rd race also at 7 Furlongs and run in 1:23.40. And the 3rd race was a state bred stakes race for older horses! So it looks he might be good one.

We've got a racehorse!!!  He figured it out.  Next time, he wins it.  Jose was a good fit.  Would love to hear what Michael and Peter and the Jacksons have to say!  I didn't see a whip, at all!  O.K. Two Timer and the rest of you negative types, what have you got to say now??  He's got speed, heart, and intelligence.  He's wonderful, and we all knew it and never stopped believing in him.  Time to go away now.

I'm eager to see the race replay - wonder if he was as rank in this race as he was in his first?  According to the race chart, he set some pretty fast fractions, and slowed down a lot at the end.  But overall, a good race, I think.  I was hoping not so much for a win as for him to show he was a racehorse, and I think he has.  Good boy, Nicky!

Oh my goodness, Nic... I am so proud of you, I could just burst.

WAY TO GO NICANOR!!!  You're on your way!

Good show Nicanor.  Keep up the good work.  Wish I could have seen you race.  Maybe someday.  Love you.

magna.equibase.com/eqbPDFChart.cfm

This will give you the equibase description of the race.

Nicanor ran a decent race, actually a very good one, but he's still no Barbaro even though the CULT has him walking on water.

Getting rid of Prado will be a good thing.  He's not all he's cracked up to be.

He'll wind up a decent lower level stakes horse.  Remember this.

This race was super for Nicanor & the connections. He broke very well & took the lead from the favorite & soon to be winner. He was closing on the leader at the 16th pole. He was beat 1 length & the time was very good for 7 Furlong Maiden's. Barbaro & I & Tommy are very proud of Nicanor's coming out race. He will win many races & I predict that he will be a Stakes Winner before this year is out. GO NICANOR GO...

Clearwater Charlie & Tommy

I think another furlong and he was first.  He was behind over a length shortly after hitting the stretch and he was making grounds with every stride...impressive after he faded in his first race.

A GREAT effort, he actually came back on the leader in the stretch after being passed!  If it were a longer race he may have retaken the lead and won.  Can't wait to see him stretch out.  Way to go Nicky!!

The race is posted on you tube.  Most impressive was that he moved to the outside and came back after the 1st place horse.  He is competitive and very race.

www.youtube.com/watch

heres a replay of the race

wow. *blinks* a dynaformer frontrunner? Awesome run though!

Good job Nic!

Just saw the replay Nicky.  My only comment is this.  You gotta go a bit slower in the beginning and save something for the homestretch.  But heck, it was only your second race--don't worry you'll get all this stuff figured out.  Heck even your big bro got uptight a bit in the saddling paddock.  

You did wonderful big guy.  We are all so proud of you.  

Go Baby Go!  Great job!!! Congrats to Nicanor, the Jacksons, Matz, and Jose!!

Next time, you will be 1st!

Way to go Nicanor! I'm your fan forever!

Nic...you are going to be another  chip off the ole block...congrats to Mike and the Jackson's....and I know there will be lots of great races in the future. Long live Barbaro and his brother and sisters to follow.

Amanda, do you know where we can catch a video replay of his race? Possibly you will be able to post it here?

Thanks!!!

OMG some of you people are delusional!!!!!!!!  He couldn't win a Maiden race for crying out loud. I wish this horse the best too but cmon already!!   He's got to improve tons.

Have a look:

www.youtube.com/watch

I was worried when he raced to the front and was flying... I didn't think he could maintain... I was so impressed with the way he fought back. He looked to be DONE, fell so far back then moved out toward the middle of the track and MADE UP some ground! It looked like he maybe forgot to change leads, figured it out then flew back up to finish the race with his nose at the winners flanks! Way to go. Little more distance and We would have had a winner! Next time.

2 time :

Thanks for the positive post on the other blog!

We really weren't that far off of our predictions for him this time were we?

I'm looking at this race as his first.  The other race was a scratch.  Now we know, he is a beautiful horse.    

Mary, info you requested on the winner CFC:  10. Custom For Carlos, by More Than Ready out of Meadow Oaks, has one start to date, finished 2nd by a head in 6 1/2f MSW at Gulfstream on Feb. 11th, earning an 85 Beyer. He finished behind well-regarded BZ Warrior that day, 1/2 sibling to graded stakes winners and/or stakes placed EZ Warrior and JZ Warrior. Gulfstream's leading rider Kent Desormeaux is aboard him again this time.

So, he is a good one too.  But didn't we say, give Nic his head, he needs/wants to go up to the front.  I honestly cannot think straight right now!!!  just so happy.

GregJ, where ARE you??  He's a racehorse!  He's fast.  No whip!  He did it all on his own and battled back at the end.  He needs a longer distance.  He's wonderful!Will any and all of those who were there, please post ASAP?  Thank you, Amanda! This is a wonderful day!  HRTV says that he ran a great race and that he won't be a maiden for long.  Watch the estimations of his ability go WAAY up among the handicappers and commentators from here on out.

Congrats on a super improved race! He's getting it now, so I'm sure next race will be even better.

Thoughts and prayers always with the whole gang.

Has La Ville Rouge given birth yet?

Watched his race at YouTube and  can't quit smiling after seeing Nicanor run so well.  He's a pleaser and gave it an excellent try.  Just hope he had fun today and decides this just might be what he wants to do the next few years.  Cheers to Nicanor and Jose.

I found a video of the race and just finished watching it. What I liked best about Nicanor's effort was that, once his jockey got him off the rail, Nic started to come on again. There's no quit in this horse. Here's a link to the video: video.google.com/videosearch

ABR posted on their "update "sight, a direct link to the you tube video of Nic.

It looks like Jose had a little trouble rating him also as he was holding his head a bit high again? Is that correct? I don't know that much about racing, just guessing my obsevations. It did look like Nic was surprised that another horse was coming up behind him as he was slowing, I think Nic thought he had won the race already, then realized that he needed to put the pedal to the metal! :-) LOL

It looks like we have a racehorse after all!  I'm so glad!

he's probably better on turf. not for nothing but dont you think if barbaro continued on turf he would be even better? thats just my opinion but cant wait to see him cross the wire first. hopefully the preakness or belmont will be a goal for nicanor. and keep lezcano on, prado isnt the same

Way to go Nicky!!! What a performance and from the 10th position.  You've got what it takes.  We are all so proud of you.  Happy 3rd birthday on the 15th.  

Just watched the race on YouTube.  He did a good job.  Had to be steadied at the final turn when Carlos came at him.  Nicanor dropped back about three lengths then came back to finish one length off.  Looks like he learned a lot today.  Especially just because someone passes you doesn't mean you can quit.  Our boy is really growing up.  

So he had the talent to beat them all.  He will come around.  We have faith and are in no hurry.  Nicanor is finding his own way.

Sure hope they give us a replay on Bloodhorse.  I watched it on You Bet but for some reason it was grainy and kept stopping to reboot so really got to see very little.  Am proud of our boy and yes he is learning.  It may take a few more trys for him to put it all together but what impressed me the most is that there is progression.  Keep it up Nicky-Knocks but hey you won me a bit of money today and even if you hadn't you would have still gotten my bet. Way to go for all his connections and next time it will improve even more.

Nicanor's first start was a mile, and interestingly, he dropped to 7 furlongs today and ran like a sprinter. Maybe he would be a good sprinter? Let's see how he does at 6 furlongs. If not, he definitely improved, but needs to rate, rather than run on the lead. Could he be a dark horse for the Preakness? I think he probably tired in the stretch, similar to Mr. Fantasy in the Gotham. In any case, Nicanor may be a good sprinter, or save his speed for the end. If he can save his speed, we have a Derby horse. That's an amazing improvement off an unfortunate first start, but at least he's not The Green Monkey, who never did better than 4th in any start. I wonder where Nicanor could go next? He could make a leap to a small stakes, rate in that race, and then run in the Derby. Why not?

"Way to go nic. Keep prado off him"

Corbensrideon -

I agree, if Lezcano could get the job done, leave him on for another race. See how Nicanor does with him.

Showed great heart and determination.  What a gorgeous youngster he is!

He looks as if he might have been a bit rank at first, but after he makes the lead, his chin comes down and he relaxes.  Looks like he's already on his right lead as he comes out of the turn, but it's hard to tell with the spotty quality of the video I was watching.  He's just got some learning to do, yet.  

Great job Nicanor next one will be a first place! Does anyone know if Nic has a new sister or brother yet?

I think Nicanor needs to stay in the learner ranks for racing.  There is plenty of time for him to move up.  One step at a time.  I have faith.

Greg J :

We are expecting a FULL REPORT on this race!

Go NIC!

Nicanor ran AWESOME!!  Don't throw in the towel on this guy just yet.  

Wow, I have to say I'm impressed. I've followed his progress with caution and was dismayed at his first start. With his second, he might be a worthy runner. Let's see what happens when he's moved up in class and distance.

Hey "Yawn", are you related to a few others we've sparred with here?  I think so... We don't think he walks on water -- we think he's

a decent racehorse and wish you'd concede that, also.  And, we love him.  What's wrong with that??  He did everything he did today, wihout the need for a whip.  He's a very good racehorse and in time, he'll prove it to you.

Love you, Nicanor!!

Mr. Jones, did you watch the video. You're not thinking rationally here so go back to the drawing board and see if you can come up with something intelligent to say about this race.  Look and think about this race in an objective way.  No one is delusional; we are just a group of people that enjoy watching this horse run.  I would be the first to say it, if I thought that Nicanor had no talent, but he does.

I guess that I put a lot of emphasis on pedigree, although I know that there is a lot more to it.  Nicanor has a beautiful pedigree so that is why I enjoy reading about him.

I can't believe how he came back at the end.  Lezcano and Nicanor belong together.  This is one fast horse.  NO whip, they just let him run.

Jon, I don't think he will get the earnings to get in the Derby. There are well over 20 other horses (19, thanks to the UK Win-and-you're-in slot) who have a big head start over Nicanor in earnings and experience. Besides, let's not put the cart before the horse, no pun intended. He has to win something first.

He looked like a racehorse. I don't think he looked rank--just a good, high cruising speed. He was coming on at the end and seemed to want more distance. Team Nicanor should keep up the good work!

To all the true Fans of Nicanor.  He ran a good race because we true fans never gave up hope of this colt.  It goes to show what happens when we all believe

Jon, I think Nicanor is a fine sprinter.  He is like the great Bold Ruler out of Nasrullah; Bold Ruler could not be rated.  He lost the Kentucky Derby because he fought his jockey all the way.  He won the Preakness and the Belmont because he was not rated.  His jockey let him go.  Secretariat the son of Bold Ruler was the same way in the Preakness and Belmont; Turcotte let him go.  I think Nicanor can be rated a bit, but he has a mind of his own.  After Nicanor's first race I said that he was always going to do it his way.  I am hopeful that in time he will rate.

By the way, Nicanor has a lot of Nasrullah in him, intelligent, but headstrong.   Nicanor is a lot like Bold Ruler.    

Congrats to all of the Nic connections.  Kudos, beautiful boy.  We knew you could do it.  Hope lots of KLP awaits you tonight and also hope a baby brother awaits us all.

I think he looked very good yes he slowed up a little bit but then he started to co me back.  I think all he needs is experience or maybe it was Barbaro pushing him.

Helsbelles, thanks for the info.  Nicanor is one fast horse.  He reminds me of Bold Ruler, doesn't like to rate; headstrong.  

Mary, Secretariat never had any trouble being rated.  He went to the lead early in the Preakness because the rider of the horse on the lead (Ecole Etage) was slowing down the pace, and Turcotte sent his horse.  Turcotte also sent his horse in the Belmont - if he hadn't, we wouldn't have seen such a thrilling performance.  But you're right about Bold Ruler, he was a headstrong colt!  I'm not sure yet that Nicanor is like that - he's been a bit rank in both his races so far, but he's still pretty green and learning.  I did like the way his chin came down and he relaxed after the first quarter or so.

In order to make the Derby, he'd have to make his next start in a graded stakes race, and he'd probably have to win in order to get enough graded earnings.  I can't see Matz or the Jacksons putting that kind of pressure on a young, inexperienced runner.  I think they'll be patient with Nicanor.

Mary,

Is it possible that Nicanor doesn't know where he can go yet due to workouts of 5 Furlongs or less? He also appears like Nicanor had more to give at the end if race 8 at Gulfstream is any indication.

I notice how the sheep over at the cheersalex forum who a couple of days ago were fretting over Jose's possibly not being good enough for dear Nicanor are now ready to dump Edgar and want to keep him off Nicanor.  What's the matter, Edgar all of a sudden can't walk on water?  Better go over to the candle site and start a group for him.

Jose, if you read this, watch out, the cult can tend to be fickle, they'll drop you like a hot potato if you make one move that they don't agree with.

Steven Chandler was right about the cult.

Way to go NICANOR, lots of love to yaaa....great race..

IMHO, I think Lezcano and Matz probably wanted him out front, hoping he might relax there.  I'm also of the opinion he was a bit rank in the first half of the race.  Even in a sprint, you don't want them running like that at first unless you know they can carry the speed the whole way.  I liked that he seemed to relax a bit in the last half then came back trying to challenge.  

As for the switch of the rail near the end, the winner came over to the rail and Nicanor had to go to the outside to try and come back.

Listen to what Lezcano is saying, that it will take 3 or 4 more races before they really know what they have.  Matz is saying he's a two turn horse but I don't know.  It bothers me that he does not seem to be in the shape for that kind of race.  He's got to learn to rate and settle and listen to the jockey.  I don't want to see him a horse that can only run on the lead.  Fine if that works but I'd love him to be able to run any style.

Yes, this is just a maiden race and more to come before anyone knows what he will be.  I do not think you will see him in the Preakness or the Belmont- I believe he will come along slower than that.  There is virtually no way for him to be in the Derby, they have to have a certain amount of earnings to qualify and he'd have to learn a lot, really fast and have to race way to much to get there.  So even if he burned up the track today, he'd have a very, very hard time getting in the Derby.  I'm glad he's not.

Let him be who he will be and enjoy him. For now, Lezcano seems to have a handle on him and a realistic attitude, although he would not be the only jockey capable of "teaching" Nicanor while racing him.  I thought Nicanor's ears went back on the turn when the horses came up behind him, which would coincide with what Lezcano was saying, but I can't be sure due to the quality of the video.

Stay safe.

I am new to all this.  What did Michael Matz mean by two turn horse? Nicanor is really a beautiful horse, really proud of him.

Nicanor.  

GOOD JOB!  Seems as though the older you get, the better your getting.  :)

Yawn -- just one question for you as you slam and jam the "cult":  did you ever commit any of your money to purchase and free doomed horses on their way slaughter, find homes, provide food and ante up more $$ for laminitis research and the like?

Maybe it's not ficklenss regarding Prado. . . maybe it's recognizing that Nicanor, who is not Barbaro, would do better with a different jockey.  Thought you would have appreciated that the "cult" differentiated betwee Barbaro and Nicanor. No?  They're still candle-lighting groupies?

Well, regardless of what you, Steven Chandler, or any of you bloggers so quick to denigrate, you cannot deny the "cult"'s heart AND their REAL commitment.

While some are learning more and more about racing, through the world Barbaro opened up to them, they are putting their money on the table trying to make the industry better.

So, cut them a break with your everso elevated slice and dice disgust, just as I am cutting you a break for your sadly faux superior attitude.

It is truly a time to celebrate for those of you "cult" groupies who are showing heart.  Whatever Nicanor becomes, he showed MORE today, and that is exciting.

And, as I am a money committing cult groupie myself, keep up the good work, CULT!

Cleone, you are dead wrong about Secretariat in the Preakness.  The horse was dead last, and before the first turn, Turcotte made an adjustment; like a man adjusting his cuff, took the horse to the outside and he took off.  Turcotte let him go. Penny Chenery, the owner of Secretariat and Lucien Lauren, his trainer said that strategically Ron Turcotte would not have let him go this soon, it had to be what the horse wanted to do.  In the Belmont, Lauren instructed Turcotte to let the horse run his own race.  The owner and the trainer said that Secretariat with time understood racing.  So in the Preakness and Belmont he was not rated.  Nicanor reminds me of Secretariat's sire, Bold Ruler.  

Kathy, it is amazing, Nicanor had a lot to give at the end.  I think he needs more distance.  I know that pedigree is not the most important thing, but I have to tell you this horse is Bold Ruler reincarnated.    

GOOD BOY!!!!!  

I am Speechless !, WOW,  What an amazing experience !, First off, Gulstream is a beautiful Park !, Kudos to everyone involved in maintening this place. Now, The race, Nicanor looked incredible up close, very calm demeanor, steady, balanced, He is put together !, as far as his muscle tone, legs, height, everything just makes him stand out from the others. The crowd didn't seem to bother him at all. You can see the connection to Barbaro as far as looks(It is uncanny), up close he just looks incredible ! In the gate he just waited, waited, no movement, nothing, I believe he learned a little from his first experience in the gate, He broke out FAST, Custom for carlos had him at first, but it was funny , it seemed like Nicanor looked to his right and said "Hey !, I'll race you to the turn punk!"(lol). Being serious, He really did seem to be taken aback when Custom for Carlos had him at the start, but he just put his head down and beat him to the rail into first turn, Great cruising speed from there, he held his line, when Carlos passed him , he did look surprised !, but it was great to see him fight back and reach down and almost catch carlos. I do believe if it was 1 mile or 1 1/16, He probably would have caught him ! With more races and experience, His potential is limitless! When he finished, he didn't seem to be breathing as hard as the other horses at all, I think 7F was fine for him to handle. He could have easily handled more distance. Michael was brilliant to come down on the distance for Nicanor's second race. With some more work-outs at a longer distance, and a few more starts, The sky's the limit ! Also, FYI, The splits in the race were great!(Out of the eleven races on the card, ONLY the 4F & 6F times in the Honey Fox Stakes(Grade 3, $100,000) were faster and only by .09 and .77 of a second! To sum it all up, A great experience for me and I am sure Nicanor and Jose (He did a GREAT job getting Nic to finish the race and not give up, also, I didn't see the whip at all,Kudos to you, Jose), and to The Jacksons, Mr. Matz, Mr. Brette, Mr. Prado, Mr.  Lezcano and of course you Amanda and Bloodhorse for allowing this great opportunity for all of us to follow this great family ! So Excited for Team Nicanor, Words don't even come close...

Boy can the horse run! Bless him, he looks pretty good. I mean -- I can look at any race that's half decent and find a horse that ran his heart out and deserves a good pampering, but all the same. Nicky did very well. Hopefully he'll break that maiden sometime soon and start winning some races. :)

I think he did well. He either needs a sprint or another few furlongs to get his stride in...really can't tell which. I'm not the best at it, though. I just know he did very well for a baby. He'll get there!

Great pictures! Isn't Nic starting to look like  studly, "interested" racehorse! It still looks to me like he couldn't believe that the horse had the audacity to pull past him! LOL :) Love you Nicanor, next race is yours!!!!!

Amanda, any updates on Lentenor?

I love this blog but I must say I am a little disheartened with some of our bloggers who are now putting Prado under water.  Prado is an excellent jockey as well as I might say a lot of other jockeys across the country.  Please think what you are saying before you say it. Lezcano is a good jockey, have seen him race quite a bit but that does not mean he is any better than Prado.  A jockey rides the horse on the instruction of the trainer and apparently the instructions were different this time than they were for his first start. So please don't down something that we know nothing about.

Wellllllll....I said I'd post tonight if he won, and admit I was wrong.

But, even though he obviously did not win, it was worth noting that this performance was a country mile better than his debut. Not hard to do, but you can't take away the effort today, either way.

I was there today, and both my friend and I called him dead in the water on the far turn, as he lost ground.

But once Lezcano took him off the rail, he came on again. There was a brief moment I thought he might actually win, but he did "hang" a bit in the stretch at the end, but over all, MUCH improved.

He looked FAR better today before the race than he did in his debut, and it translated to the race.

While it's hard to guage what he beat, since some highly regarded maidens in here simply did not fire, and the rest are probably not going to go on to big fame and fortune....in just taking the race for it's own sake, he certainly showed he can run a little.

And for anyone here unfamiliar with the lingo, saying a maiden, or young horse can "run a little bit", is a compliment, and speaks of future potential, so that's NOT a bash.

Personally, if he'd gone two turns on the grass, he's have probably one by a pole...but that's JMO.

So...that's my .02 from a ringside seat at the track today.

Folks, don't put too much into Nicanor's coming on in the last 1/8th of a mile.  Both horses were slowing down--no one was coming on.  It just looked as though the winning horse slowed down just a little faster than Nicanor.  The last eighth was run in almost 13 seconds.  Compare that to the first quarter in 22.83.

It was a good race, though.

I thought Nicanor was a little rank and he looked like he came off the bridle in the turn, but it was a good effort.

I hope they can teach him to rate.  Some old timers view a refusal to rate as a character flaw in a horse.

Jockey had it exactly right--he ran great and was intimidated turning for home...you could see him back off and look around a bit, changed his lead a couple of times.  When he shook the reins at him, Nic was right back to business and you could really see him dig in and go after the winner.  He is definitely figuring it out.  I look for him to be in some bigger races in the fall after he gets a win or two under his belt and some experience.  Matz and his team are doing a wonderful job with this horse just as they do with all their horses.  It was a great effort for Nicanor and he will only continue to improve--he really showed his heart today when he tried to come back on the winner--many horses would have just thrown in the towel.

Also, from someone "in the know"...Prado was sick, which is why he took off his CA mounts today.

People, it HAPPENS, and I am sure he'd have much rather been out there riding. I have not ready but maybe 3 posts tonight, but I saw where others are admonishing some for putting Edgar down.

All I can think of to say to that is, those of you who know horse racing, know what kind of rider is, and know he does not warrant ANY criticism.

For the FOBs, if any of it is coming from you, then shame on you, as this is the same man who saved your beloved Barbaro, and gave him 9 extra months.

Learn horse racing, before you start to bash a Hall Of Fame jockey, until/unless he does something unspeakable. Today WAS NOT it.

These guys risk their lives for YOUR enjoyment 8-10 times on any given day. Think before you speak.

Much better race this time out---atta boy!  That was the kind of race I knew he could run.   That first win is just around the corner---I can see it.   Congrats to Nicky and all the connections on a great effort.

Those big feet and knees look great! May they stay healthy and strong!

Penny, what a two turn horse means is that Nicanor needs more distance over one mile.  Todays race was a sprint.  With a little more distance he may have won, but the jockey said that Nicanor was intimidated by his rival.  I didn't see it, but the jockey probably knows best.

lobieb

Prado is one of the best and the people that put him down are only jealous of him, don't let it get to you.  Only the negative people put Edgar down.  They do it to upset people.  We know that Prado is one of the best jockeys in the states and that is all we need to know. Scroll by those stupid comments.  Not worth your time. :)

Greg!!!!!  Glad you had fun!  Did you do a exacta box on those two?  I didn't like the jockey on 10 but I will not put the name up.  Most of you know that anyway.  I think Nicanor just needs to flurish a bit.  He is a slow learner.  I remember when he hated the track.  MM didn't make him get on it either.  Love the way he takes care of his horses.  

lobieb, I agree with you.  We all know a lot more about Nicanor after this race.  He injured himself in his first race, no matter how slight the injury, it still affected his performance.  I don't even count his first race, except that he was injured and he did not want to be rated, headstrong.  Prado is a great jockey.

Cleone:

I believe that Lauren told Turcotte after his first race (a loss), that he was to let Secretariat have it his way in the races from then on.

Thank you Karen,Pa!

Mary, Nic does remind me of what I've read about Bold Ruler!

Greg J:

Hooray for you! I can't even imagine how exciting and fun it was there!

Why wasn't Prado riding Nicanor today? Big surprise for me to see someone else ontop of him. Considering it would have been nice to have the entire "Barbaro team" being in the Winner's Circle one day with Nicanor.

Great effort! And congrats to the entire Team Nicanor! Todays horse racing tends to leave no room for the real development of the horse and so you have those rare animals and "freaks" (not meant negatively in this case) but they are your Smarty Jones,Curlins, and the female horse who actually beat Curlin, etc. that are so fast and so very good already at 2 and 3 years old that they leave over 90% of other racehorses in the dust. They are so good but are not racing anymore at age 4, 5, etc. Horses really need experience and develop over time. Look at Seabiscuit and other champions who got better with time and did not reach their peak at age 3. Hopefully, Nicanor will be allowed to race and improve his talents for several more years so we can get to see his greater potentials emerge before he is retired and sent to breed. For now, my family and I will simply enjoy his journey, wish him good health and safety, give him a chance, and support his team! 'Way to go, Team Nicanor! Keep up the efforts!

 Failed to mention, What HUGE feet Nicanor has !, Also, FYI, Jose had a succesful day, Had three seconds, 1 third, and he won on I lost my Choo(lol, Great name, that name would have fit Big Brown last year in Belmont). Mr. Matz had mixed results, 8th-Hennigan, 3rd-Desired, 5th-Tejida, But I am sure Nicanor's Galant second place finish made it a succesful day for him !

The negitave people don't get the point of this blog. People complain because he could only finish second. But for Nicanor's fans, it is about the enjoyment of seeing him run, it isn't about winning big races (though that would be nice) the majority of horse racing is middle class races like this and its brilliant that so many people are interested.

I didn't have a very enjoyable day today but as soon as i got home (1:44 am) I turned on my computer to see how Niccy did. Thats what that horse does for me. And his run was excellent; he showed heart. This horse is bringing fans to horse racing so the naysayers have frankly nothing to complain about.

I didnt have a chance to follow Barbaro because i wasnt interested in American racing at the time. Nicanor is great. I dont really understand the economic downurn because i'm 15 but what i do understand is that people need feel good stories like Nicanor right now. GO NICANOR! You made my morning so much brighter!

Ooohhhhh Nicky...I'm SO PROUND of you, i'm almost saw Barbaro back there.....I'm almost crying

Karen, PA

Well now we are a cult? LOL Well at least we have saved and helped thousands of horses.  We don't talk about it, we do it.  It takes money, time, love, effort, energy and devotion to do the things that this FOB cult has done.  I am damn proud to be a Fan of Barbaro and my money will always go for his research.  

Some of these people I think are children that mommy and daddy don't even know they are on the PC.  They surly haven't spent a dime on the horses.  That is a given.  The FOB's have worked very very hard and are still working to finish that race.  BARBARO ROCKS and so does the family.  :)

Karen Well Said !!!

JAJ, I think, and of course, I may be wrong, but it is going to be difficult to rate Nicanor.  Perhaps it is a character flaw, but I don't see it that way. Like Michael Matz said he needs more distance, a two turn horse.

Some of you people are freaking crazy.  First off, he can't read, so stop writing like he can.  Secondly, he isn't going to be anything other than a lower level allowance horse.  And thirdly, all you praising the Jacksons, should really stop.  These people disgust me.  They should have put Barbaro down on the track, but they selfishly didn't.  Then to keep breeding the same two horse just so they can try and recreate Barbaro.  And lastly, Barbaro was even that great of horse. Bernardini would have smoked him if he never brokedown.  You people need to get a serious reality check.

It looked like he threw his head around a bit after he got out front, but in the end, it looked like he collected himself and was driving. Isn't his sire somewhat headstrong? With drive? Isn't that what the breeding was to capture? Drive?

For the record, I am NOT bashing Prado. I knew he was sick today, and that was unfortunate. All I am saying is give Lezcano another chance at Nicanor. Something clicked today, it may have just been Nicanor's light bulb going on, or it may have been the Nicanor/Jose combination.

For Jackie, Fan of Nicanor -

"He ran a good race because we true fans never gave up hope of this colt.  It goes to show what happens when we all believe"

Way to give credit where credit is due! I' sure glad Nicanor has you because then he doesn't have to train well and try hard, all YOU have to do is BELIEVE! Too bad you didn't believe hard enough, or he might have won!

Forgot to add the horse looks different, more regal than earlier. More beautiful. Must be maturing and losing that adolescent look. His head looks more defined. He looked a bit plain for a while, but in these pictures he seems changed.

Whoa!  Nothing wrong with being a little intimidated on only your second start.  He's green and has some learning to do but anyone can see that he is beginning to understand.  Time and patience are key to training all horses whether they be for show, trail or race.  The best get better with experience and if Matz is half the trainer I believe he is, then he will keep him happy in mind as well as body.  Horses are like any other animal including ourselves - if we are not happy in our work, then we don't do a good job.  Way to go son, keep up the good work.

Thank you Mary for explaining that, makes a lot of sense.  It did look like he had picked up speed at the very end.

MyMigraine

No TRUE FOB would ever put down Edgar Prado. We know how good he is.  He does not have to prove anything.  All people need to do is go to the Hall of Fame.  Nicanor did very very well today.  Maybe would have won with Edgar maybe not.  We will never know.  Jose did great.  

Keep up the good work Nicky Nocks.  :)

The awesome thing about the race was that Nicanor did not give up.  He tried to ralley and put forth a good attempt.  I think it was less than a length but I may be a little biased.  Can't wait to see him race again because he really looked like he was enjoying it.

Just saw the video, wonderful race for a second outing.  I think he's starting to figure this game out.  But for all the FOB's, Nicanor is not Barbaro, although the resemblance is uncanny.  We need to let Nicanor BE NICANOR. And keep big brother Bobbi in our memories.

Wow! Nicanor looked sooooo beautiful today. I firmly believe he would have won today but just ran out of track. He ran great. I'm so proud of him. But I also remember it took some time for him to mature enough for serious training so we'll be patient - he'll win his first race soon enough.  Also, I was annoyed that Edgar was not available for Nicanor but I know that's because I feel that my "little boy" was rejected for someone else. I know it's silly but there you have it. But I'll try to remember that Edgar loved our Barbaro and I'll give him a break. (He didn't race today anyway cause he was sick.)

I watched the race and it was amazing! If there was another furlong or a little less Nicanor would have him easily! Way to go Nicanor! Love you buddy! And You'll snap the win next time easily!

Great job Nicanor!

I was so proud of you Nicanor. You are wonderful and we all love you.

I just don't know if I could stand Nicanor not being in the Derby!  I know he won't have much experience, but he seems destined to be in the starting gate on the first Saturday in May, just like his majestic brother, the great BARBARO!!! :-D

I know comparing times/splits from one track to another is like comparing apples/oranges but I thought this was interesting, In Nicanor's race, The times at 2F-4F-6F were all faster then the Santa Anita Oaks(Stardom Bound), The Big Cap(Einstein), and the Gotham (I Want Revenge). Yes, I know those are longer races, different surfaces(Hence the apples/oranges reference), and More experienced Horses, but just thought it was interesting ! That's All...

I think Nicanor was startled to see a horse ahead of him all of a sudden, and hesitated for a second and then dug in and got back to business and almost caught up with him.  Another furlong and the result might very well have been reversed.

Edgar was too ill to fly.  He may ride Nicanor again sometime.  Jose did a good job with him today, though.  

Hate to be the rain on this no whip parade, but I was there, and oh YES, that whip came out, quite a bit. Lezcano got into him once he pulled him off the rail. He didn't put the whip away un til ust a few strides from the wire.

Matter of fact, if you just take a look at the photos on this very blog, of Nicanor down the stretch, ...you see that stick in Lezcano's hand, and see how it's raised? That's a whip, boys and girls, and it's in use.

P.S.  I don't think Lezcano meant he was intimidated by the other horses...more that he was taken aback by the crowd when he turned for home--remember, he was no where near the front entering the stretch in his first race...probably a little strange to him to look up and see and hear all the people....he just hung a bit and it took him a few strides to figure out someone had passed him and he needed to stick to business.  As soon as Lezcano shook the reins, he pinned his ears and started working ... and he did hit him twice with the whip--looked like it was just to get his attention and keep his mind on business.  For those of you worried about his stamina based on his short works...it's the galloping in between the works that really builds the stamina and gives racehorses the ability withstand the longer distances.  I suspect that Matz makes sure he gets plenty of nice long gallops--some trainers really like to see the official works before they run a horse, Matz is just a little different in his philosophy.  Go Nic Go!!!

Mary, you said:

"Turcotte made an adjustment; like a man adjusting his cuff, took the horse to the outside and he took off."

You're making my point - Secretariat was not rank in that race - he was not fighting his rider.  He was doing exactly what he was asked to do.

Nicanor, on the other hand, looked as if he might have been trying to go faster than his rider wanted him to, in the early part of the race.  He's green, he'll learn.  I'm still smiling over the second!

Beautiful photos, thank you for sharing.

Nics race today shows potential..if progressed at right pace could prove to be a great race horse in big races..hmmm..Breeders Cup?? But i am a big odds player..I even followed John Henry when he was running green..lol

Greg J., thank you so much.  I thoroughly enjoyed reading your take on the race and your description of Nicanor.  You are right he needs more distance.  No whip, great. He's a beauty.

Let's not badmouth Prado, I don't know what is going on right now with him.  Hope he is ok.  He did give up the mount on Imperial Council (who ended up getting second in the gotham) to go to calif, and then he doesn't go.  So who knows what is going on there.  Hope Edgar is alright.  Greg, did you see the one million dollar yearling purchase Big Top?  I was worried he would run a huge one... doesn't look like he did this time.

I was there and he lookded great. So excited to see him really run.  He looked so at ease in the paddock. Nic is just beautiful. I am so thrilled that I was able to make it to Gulfstream and see him finish in the money.

very nice run today, set quick fractions and battled back in the stretch, he wants some more distance...he'll be solid after a few more runs out

I just watched the replay of Nicanor's race today.  I think all the negative people need to stay OFF this blog......JMO.  It was only his second race --- much improved from his first...He may never be another Barbaro but he's got LOTS of talent, heart and charisma and who knows?  Let's see what race #3 may show.  I think he will get better and better and all of us here who follow him and love him are the only ones that matter!

And for Pete's sake leave Edgar OUT of the equation!!  He is a Hall of Fame jockey to be sure and HE is the one who gave Barbaro the only chance he had at survival and if he rides Nicanor great and, if not, well then there is someone else out there that is capable.  Jeez!@

Great job Nicanor! I wish this could have been his first race. He may not have won it, but at least he showed heart and skill! I was impressed that he fought back after he had been passed and made up ground.

Marigold

The difference between todays race and his 1rst race was the injury.  I wonder if maybe Edgar may be too careful with Nicanor, hence is afraid to be normal on him.  I love Edgar but that is one way of looking at this.  Edgar has one horrible memory.  I wonder if that has a play in him being Nicanor's jockey.  Nicanor did really well today with Jose and I loved it.  He needed more time.  

Love you Edgar.  Sorry you're sick.  Get well soon favorite jockey.  :)  A True Fan of Barbaro, Prado is.  :)

My Migraine, what are you talking about?? The only one who "bashed " Edgar was one of your  pack - Yawn.

The rest of us just conceded that Jose was a good fit (did a good job with him).  None of us wants Edgar to go away.  He can ride Nicanor anytime he wishes and is able to. I went through more than 2 dozen posts before I came to any mention of Edgar.  Better go back and read it again.  Glad to be a member of this particular Cult. I'm an FOB and proud of it!  Now I am an FON, as well.  In time, we'll all be FOLs!  Dynaformer's babies RULE! Speaking of which, any word on LVR and Babynor, Amanda?

I was going to write quite alot here. But changed my mind after reading some of the comments. I'll only say that what a thrill watching Nic today. It was a joy, truly. As this is a blog/info place to come to follow the progress of Nicanor the rest of his family, why do people come here to be negative? I just don't understand this..... If they don't care about him, why come on here at all. I scan the blogs and read what interests me, commenting when I think I can contribute positively.

Just a thought...

I think Nicanor has learned a lot just in the time since his last race. And he was impressive to come back at the horse in front of him instead of throwing in the towel. Clearly he's smart, he's already put a lot together about racing, and he will learn about rating. I like what I see in him.

Alright, Nic! I was a little on the terrified side to even look at youtube, but, such vast improvement deserves a second look! Oh, yeah! He's sooo much better!

I would like to see Edgar on him at some future date. I just have a feeling that that is how it is supposed to be. I do think that, regardless of the conflict of mounts that Edgar had already lined up, that today was just the day for Jose. I'm siding with MyMigraine on this one.

Thank you, Nic, and thank you to his connections and Bloodhorse for letting us all follow him and the rest of the family so closely! And the new foal is arriving...... Soon, I hope!

Now this big colt has some SPEED....what an effort, he is a very special horse.....YEA Nicanor....what an effort in just his second race!!!!! he is a winner....I love you.....

Throw out the first race, maybe add a little distance, plus the experience Nic now has--third time's the charm.

Good job, Nicanor.  Keep learning.

If I  had just wandered in here, I'd think he had just WON the Kentucky Derby.

Let's get Nicanor a WIN against other maidens first.  I cant believe I'm reading all of this, and this horse is still running against horses who've never won a race before.  If anyone can find me another 0 for 2 maiden with such high goals for it, I'll shut up. He beat 4 horses who have never even raced before, whooppppeeeee! I just find this whole thing ridiculous.  He's Barbaro's brother...so what?  Something tells me he doesn't know that. I predict that he'll bomb next time out, possibly breaking his maiden eventually at Beulah.

Nicanor showed a lot of Heart today way to go. Hey Greg J did you notice how long his gallop out was?

M.M. says it is going to take 3 or 4 more races before they know what they have in Nicanor. It is great to hear that they are planning to race Nicanor at least 3 or 4 more times.

Since it doesn't appear likely that Nicanor will be ready for at one if not all of the Triple Crown races, it sure would be nice if Nicanor is ready, willing and able to race at the 2009 Breeder's Cup so I can go see him race.

I've never been deluded into thinking Nicanor was another Barbaro. I just believed that with Nicanor's breeding and the fact that he appears to love the track, the training, and now the racing,  that he would make a really good race horse. There are so many race horses that don't appear to care for their jobs very much.

I have a feeling that if all goes well, Nicanor maybe racing into his 6 or 7's.

JAJ, what does teaching a horse to rate mean? I don't believe anyone has asked that yet.

Oh my gosh-pix number 3 gave me chills.  He looks like BBH with all four flying. God bless you, Nic. Everyone is so proud and the mantle has been passed to you by our precious Barbaro.

For all the 'no whip' people.

Can you not see the second picture? Because the whip is on the side away from your view doesn't mean it's not being used.

Hey Marigold , you saw my response on the other blog right after the race and thanked me for my opinion, now you pretend you didn't see my blog. To repeat I was impressed and think Matz did a wonderful job training him .Keep the same  jockey on him and looks like he will like going longer.Next race should tell us where he's really at as a racehorse.

Mary, I didn't say YOU or ALL of the people here were delusional. I'm talking about the ones who think the Preakness or Belmont is still a goal (not that it ever was). He may turn out to be a nice horse, he may not. On the dirt he certainly won't be a world beater. Maybe he'll fare better on the grass. Lighten up...

Mary,Laura, if you think this race make him a "great racehorse" what will that make Custom for Carlos?

Yeahhhh Nicanor. Great race boy! He really showed some grit trying to come back on Custom for Carlos, another furlong and I think he would have regained the lead. As Mr. Matz and Jose said he needs more experience and I feel a little more confidance to show he can win. And he will. Great job Nic. will be wainting for your next race. I hope Michael takes him to Keeneland to race next month, if so I'll fly in to see him race.

People please learn a little about thoroughbred racing before posting these insane comments. How could he run in a small stakes and then run in the Derby without any graded stakes earnings?

I was at both of Nicanor's races. At the debut, everyone appaulded when he came into sight. He seemed a little unsure of his surroundings. Today, no one appaulded, but he is a more confident horse. Alert and aware of his surroundings. I called to him Nicky, Nicky and he looked at me with those beautiful eyes. He seemed that he knew he had a job to do and wanted to do it. He was in the lead for most of the race. Everyone should be so proud of him. GREAT JOB NICKY!!!!!

Edgar Prado is a very good jockey. He does not deserve any bashing from anyone. Jose did a great job with Nicanor but I think Edgar should retain the mount on Nicanor for future races when possible. I really beleive he has the know how to bring out the best in him.

Dave, yot comments on the Jacksons and Barbaro are uncalled for. If every horse who sustained an injury on the race track were put down immediately and never given a chance at life it would truely be a tragidy. Look at Chelokee. He was injured while racing, they gave him a chance with surgery, he recovered and is now a breeding stallion. Another example is Dancing in My Dreams, she has a stakes winning son in Dancing Forever. To not give a horse a chance at life because of an injury that a vet. feels could be possible would be a travesty.

Nicanor will run next race @ 1 1/16 or 1 1/8 & he will be very tough to beat. It makes no difference who rides him, as he proved yesterday, he is the real deal. The Time of the race was FAST for Maiden's & Nic was closing at the finish. All FOB's had a big smile yesterday.

GO NICANOR GO

Clearwater Charlie & Tommy

As I said he wouldn't and didn't, still a maiden.I agree with you Yawn 0-2 and counting.Thisis a fact some of you don't ewant to read. Probably bounce next out.

As good as Nicanor looked in his second start, it is not within reason to think that MM would even THINK about putting Nicanor in a TC race. If I was the trainer my short term goal would have him winning an allowance race by Derby time. Then mabe a non-graded stakes race, and if he wins that a Grade 3.

My wishes for Nicanor were modest and both came true.  He improved  (a lot) and came back healthy.  I don't see him in a grade I race any time soon but you never know what might happen in this racing game.  Lezcano might prove to be a better fit for him than Prado.  As for the Fans of Barbaro, we are a diverse group, including people in the racing business as well as spiritualists and artists, and everything in between.  We are conservatives and liberals, vegans and meat-eaters, and we might disagree among ourselves, but we are dedicated to saving horses from slaughter, in Barbaro's name, to honor his career and his struggle to survive.  SO Nicanor is part of our family, and like any family member, we cheer his accomplishments, whatever they are, and don't like to hear him criticized by outsiders, thank you very much, even though we know he will be. "yawn", you need to get a life.  Go do something positive with your dislike of candle lighters.  There are other ways to enjoy horse racing.  Go be cynical and supercilious among your own kind.  We won't mind.

Cleone, you misunderstood what I said about Secretariat in the Preakness.  Please google "you tube Secretariat".  Look for Sportscentury 1 video.  In that video the owner, Penny Chenery, explains what happened in the Preakness.  Sportswriters in that video also explain it.  Ron Turcotte did not ask Secretariat to run like that so early in the race.  Secretariat just took off and Turcotte let him go.  As a matter of fact, they all thought Secretariat would lose the race because he so rapidly went from last to first. Please watch the sportscentury video.  Also, there are many articles on this.

Secretariat was able to run the way he did because he inherited a large heart, from his mother, Somethingroyal.  His father, the great Bold Ruler, gave him strength, soundness, and determination.

GREG J. the time/split comparison is very interesting.  Nicanor is a fast horse.  Another furlong and he would have won the race.  For a moment he simply lost his concentration.  To his surprise another horse moved ahead of him, so he got back to business.

Tim, I think we all know that Nicanor will not make it to the Kentucky Derby, not enough winnings.  It is possible for him to make it to Preakness or perhaps the Belmont.  If not, maybe the Breeder's Cup at the end of the year.  You have to admit that what happened in his first race was just a series of misfortunes.

The Phantom, You are not contributing anything here, nothing at all and it's a shame that you would make such nasty comments about Nicanor, or any other horse for that matter.  It is okay to make derrogatory comments about any horse, including Nicanor, if such comments are made intelligently and thoughtfully.      

helsbelles

Edgar stayed in Florida.  He was way to sick to get on the plane.  Wish him well and we hope you get better as soon as possible sweet Edgar.  

Donna You're right.  When people put down a hall of fame jockey, what does that tell you about that person?  It pretty much sums it up right there doesn't it.  I hope Edgar does ride Nicanor most of the time.  Jose did a great but there is not another Edgar Prado.  

I just don't want Edgar to be too careful with Nicanor.  I am sure he knows what to do.  Edgar brings out the best in a all horses that he rides.  :)

Yawn - why does it annoy you that people love Nicanor and cheer for him. I love to read about Barbaro & his family and connections and have been reading it every day since it started. If I'm not interested, then I'll read about somebody else, not about Barbaro and his legacy. These people do a great deal of good in Barbaro's name and I for one am quite grateful. So what if we cheer for Nicanor and everything he does. We love him. And we love his brother Lentenor and will cheer for him too no matter what does. (and let's not forget "Babynor") Why would people who love animals and do so much good for them annoy you enough to complain about their behavior on their site?

From what Matz said I have a feeling that Nick will stay in Florida probably with Brett and try another race there.  Maybe they are waiting for Lentanor to finish his training and will ship the two back to Fair Hill at the same time. That will give Nick another chance to season a bit and who knows, hopefully will see him in Saratoga in August after a few more tries under his belt. As to the negativity of some on this blog you definately have the right to voice your opinion but connections to Barbaro run deeply here and let them have their dreams if they so choose.  Again I say the older he gets and matures you might be very surprise as to what he will be able to accomplish down the road. We will take one race at a time whether graded or not but I have a feeling he will surprise us all later on.

Kathy,

Teaching a horse to rate means teaching him to relax and respond to the jockey's instructions.

At the moment, Nicanor seems to insist on running on the lead.  I don't think he is a particularly fast horse, so if he insists on running on the lead, he is going to be run off his feet by truly fast horses at the beginning of the race and have nothing left for the finish.  Nicanor looks to me to be a horse who naturally should get a distance of ground (more than a mile).  He doesn't seem to have the brilliant speed of a sprinter, regardless of his fans being impressed with him.  His last eighth of a mile was in around 13 seconds--which is pretty slow.

He was really rank in his first race.  In his second, he seemed just on the edge.  I thought the rider did a great job, but that is only an opinion based on a grainy YouTube video.

I think that in the end he is going to be able to carry speed, but I don't think he is naturally fast enough to lead from wire to wire.  If he can't cope with being rated and relaxing behind horses, he is going to use everything trying to run against horses that truly are very fast.  I think if he can't rate kindly--relax in the middle or back of the pack while the true speed horses burn each other up--he will end up being a cheap horse.

It is something that the trainer can help him learn, but in the end it is Nicanor who has to agree to run his races that way.

Now, please, let's stop all this silly talk about the Triple Crown and now the Breeder's Cup.  The quickest way to ruin a horse's mind is to put him in against tough competition.  There is a wise saying that trainers like to keep the best of company, but want their horses to keep the worst of company.  In other words, a good trainer wants his horses to run against weaker opponents.

Over matching a young, green horse can ruin a horse forever.

Don't under estimate Nicanor.He sure is a handsome horse and he showed us that in the race that he is maturing.

2 Timer, does that mean you are also posting as My Migraine (which I have suspected)or are you also Yawn?  I still appreciate your fair take on Nicanor and thank  you for it.  Just understand that we (the "cult") were Barbaro fans and now are Nicanor fans (and, by the way, most of us have long since ceased to think of Nicanor as Barbaro's brother but have begun to think of him as Nicanor, period.)

Mary

I don't think the Phantom knows how to be nice.  

Bravo, Mary!  Well said.  Phantom, you and Yawn are a matched set!

Mary, the fact is he lost as I predicted, you claim that's a nasty comment - its the truth and apparently some of you people don't want anyone who doesn't go gaga about this horse not to say a thing.What was not intelligent about saying the horse lost AGAIN?0-2 and still a maiden that's reality.This blog is for everyone's opinion not just yours!

GOOD JOB NICANOR! I knew ya had it in you!!! Deff gonna be a distance horse, you can go the distance I know ya can!! A few more races and you'll be shinin!! I dont expect you to a barbaro, and you tell them, your not barbaro your BARBARO'S BROTHER!!! good job buddy!!!

Marigold  and the rest of the FOB cult LOL.  I think that this pretty much sums it up for all of us true FOB's.  We don't care if Nicanor wins or if he is gelded.  We still all love him because he is Barbaro's brother.  That is all he needs to be.  Yeah he is showing better speed and I believe that Prado would still be the best jockey for him.  We need to keep the family in tact.  

We are not ones that are for only winning.  We donate moneies for the deadly L, horse rescue, finding good homes for unwanted race horses because the owners want to kick them to the curb for nothing short of not winning. There is nothing wrong with these horses, they just have horrible owners that don't give a damn.  We have save thousands of them.  

For the naysayers out there that come specifically to Nicanors blog to bash him, Edgar, MM and the FOB family is beyond me.  They have nothing nice to say. They put people down that love these horses.  Not for one minute are we going to STOP loving Nicanor because of these rediculas comments.  We love him no matter what he does.  We love Lentenor, Dynaformer, LVR and above and beyond BARBARO!

Did anyone happen to see that Magna is filing for a chapter 11?  That puts a lot of tracks in trouble.  Horseracing needs Nicanor and the Barbaro bunch. Without them, where the hell would it be?  Pretty soon, the laws will be so strict that the trainers and owners just won't want to deal with it anymore.  The only ones left will be the honest ones.  THAT is when it will become a real sport.  

We need to weed out the bad and keep the good.  TRACKING BARBAROS BROTHERS is a light im my life.  I love seeing how these horses are doing.  Thank You Roy and Gretchen for making this possible.  I don't see any other owners at all that let all of us be part of their lives.  That is pretty awesome.  Too bad there aren't more people like them.

The next Edgar bashing is one that should just totally be ignored.  People that bash these horses and connections are mentally ill.  They are really not nice people.  

Thank You Amanda for puttin things up so quicky.  Now LVR have that kid!  :)  Wedding is  on guys.  

Thanks for the confirmation that Lezcano did use the whip in the stretch, via the photo and in-person observation. I thought Lezcano used it once in the stretch but the video quality was not good.  I would hypothesize that after his fading in his first race, whether due to injury or whatever,(NO discredit to Prado,the horse had injured his foot) he needed to be taught how to come back. That he woke up and did so is promising.  I also question putting him in a mile for his first time out.  And that may be a lot of the difference you see in this second race- he relaxed just a bit and had some gas left when Lezcano asked for it.

You can have two really great jockey's and one will just fit one horse better than another- BUT, that is yet to be determined with Nicanor.  You can't tell off one race each on the horse. I would be inclined to keep Lezcano on him if Nicanor gets along with him, not because Prado can't ride him but because Prado IS a hot jockey and will be asked to ride horses in bigger races than Nicanor will be in.  IF, and I did say "IF", there is any advantage to consistency, then Lezcano may be able to ride him more often.

Getting the stick in the run to the wire a couple times is just telling the horse the job isn't over and pay attention.  If Nicanor is as smart as people say, he could just as well learn not to try again if the jockey doesn't tell him that's what his job is about.  The good news is that Nicanor responded and Lezcano did not have to put him under a sustained drive to do so.

I don't care if Nicanor never gets out of allowance class.  I just like to see any horse try his best at whatever level he's best running at.

As for continuing the La Ville Rouge/Dynaformer cross, the Jackson's want a filly and they want her because the family has proven to be good and they would have another potential great broodmare- but that is not a given, either. It's not uncommon if the cross produces well to stick to it.  Nicanor and Lentenor don't have to be Barbaro's to prove that out, just good race horses.  Reference Gallant Man and his brothers.  Or even Man O' War and his sister Masda and brother My Play.  Good race horses.  Just that superb hits very, very rarely and they have the misfortune to be compared to superb.  But you would still continue that cross because it WORKS.

My question is why MM is running Nicanor on dirt?  By maturing slower he's taking after the Dynaformer side of his pedigree, which would like grass.  I'm still uncertain about distance as I believe MM said he was built more for shorter distances but maybe I got that wrong.  At any rate, ultimately, the horse will do what the horse will do.

As for Bold Ruler not being able to be rated- that loses horses a lot of races, especially if they don't run long. Bold Ruler had his range and it was the exception that got him a win beyond that.  That's why they need to rate.  Sometimes you can take a miler and get longer if you ride really smart and conserve the horse. Also, Bold Ruler was not exactly known for passing on soundness, although not as bad as some more recent sires.  What Secretariat got he likely got from Somethingroyal through her sire, Princequillo.

Greg J, while I saw where you were careful to acknowledge the apples and oranges comparison of the SA Oaks and Nicanor's race, it's far beyond that. There is no comparison, for three simple facts:

1. The most important, there is a vast difference between a one turn sprint and a two turn distance race, which is why time comparisons between two such races are never (ever) relevant.

2. Synthetic almost never garners the same types of times, or splits , as a conventional dirt track. But if you want to compare the two tracks anyway, at least find like races, sprint to compare to sprint. Not 7f vs. 1 1/16th.

3. Nicanor set the pace in his race, where as Stardom Bound truly took the overland jounrey to get up barely in time to win, from a dead last position. She probably ran closer to a mile and a quarter yesterday than the actual 1 1/16th.

nicanor looked awesome yesterday. he finished an impressive second. the more he runs, the more he'll learn. may not be in the triple crown, but maybe the haskell or the travers.

TO Laughing with Memphis Girl: God bless you for your enthusiasm and love for this horse, but with as much gentleness as I can muster, please let me make something clear. I've been watching racehorses run since 1959. Even worked on a breeding farm and at the track as an exercise rider and groom for awhile. Nicanor will NOT run in the Derby or any of the Triple Crown races. He's a green maiden who has some speed, but he has a long way to go to even be considered for ungraded stakes at this early point in his career. Nicanor is a slow-maturing horse in an era in which people have little patience for that type of horse. Fans who love him need to be extra patient.

yawn:  it DOES feel like we just won the Kentucky Derby!  Sorry that you obviously dont get it, because you are missing out.  Some people just come in here to throw bombs-- pathetic.  But realize this: you can't destroy our joy.  

I like Lezcano on Nic, and hope he retains the mount for next race.  As far as the jock saying Nic was a little intimidated:  think back to Barbaro's FL Derby, where Peter Brette said of Barbaro that he was not quite sure what was expected of him when Sharp Humor had the audacity to battle him down the stretch... but he figured it out and won by a slim margin.  About Secretariat... he was a one in a trillion horse, so he could pretty much get away with anything.  For a horse to make his move at the beginning of the backstrtch like he did in the Preakness is suicidal... but not for Big Red!  Remember how Hard Spun was burned in the Preakness when he was forced to make his move too early? (Edgar had a little something to do with that.)  That's what normally happens.  I hope, and believe, that Nic will learn to rate a bit, because it is very hard on the front-running speed burners to sustain longevity.

Marigold...

If you had actually read my post, I clearly stated I had only read a few myself at the time I posted that, and saw where OTHER people were admonishing people here, for taking shots, apparently, at Prado for one thing or another today, be it not being on Nicanor, or not being in CA (without having the facts).

Thus why I said ***IF*** any of the FOB types were among those participating in the Prado Putdown Parade (since I had NOT read very many entries here to know for sure, which takes us back to that IF)...you shouldn't be.

Since we're on the subject, VERY few maidens have a regular rider anyway. I know everyone thinks there's this "Barbaro Team" that must be adhered to, but lest you've forgotten, this isn't Barbaro.

While Prado may be Matz's first call rider, that doesn't mean he is automatically going to be aboard every Barbaro relative they ever have in that barn.

I'd suggest the people here that are new to racing familiarize themselves with our riders, especially those on FL, and on the East Coast, as they are likely going to be the ones, at one time or another, to get aboard a Matz horse. It may not always be Prado, or Lezcano.

There is a country full of really top level jockeys out there, any one of them more than capable of riding any horse, well.

Nicanor could wind up with a whole host of riders during his career, if it's of any appreciable length. Only when a horse is gotten GOOD, and is regularly competing at the highest levels, does a jockey try and maintain that mount "no matter what".

Next out, perhaps both Prado AND Lezcano will have prior commitments, and there will be yet a new jockey aboard, so you might want to get used to the idea, if nothing more.

Way to go Nicanor!!! I have been watching you since you were little. Your first race you were raw, but this time around you looked stronger, more confident, and more natural! You did an amazing job and I just know that you are a champion!! You have the heart of one I can see it in your eyes! You go get them! I will be watching, cheering, and praying for you! Keep running like the wind!!

TO Mary: Bold Ruler was a good racehorse and the most important sire of his era. However, prior to Secretariat, Bold Ruler was considered a speed sire. In fact, prior to Red winning the Derby (in record time that still stands), he lost the Wood Memorial, and many handicappers thought a son of Bold Ruler could never carry speed over 1 1/4 miles.

The stamina influences in Red's pedigree come through two famous sources. The first is through Bold Ruler's dam, Miss Disco, a daughter of noted stamina sire, Discovery, who was from the same male line as Man O'War. Discovery was by Display, who was by Fair Play, the sire of Man O'War.

The second source is Princequillo, sire of Secretariat's dam, Somethingroyal. Princquillo was noted as a sire who corrected leg problems and imparted soundness. If you were able to see side-by-side photos of Secretariat and his maternal grandsire, Princequillo, you would see how closely their conformations resembled each other.

Stardust, and others, don't you suppose the Preakness of 2006 and Barbaro's beakdown is seared into Edgar's soul, so that he is inclined to be very careful with Nicanor?  I would bet that that is a real consideration here.  For that reason alone, Matz might use another jockey for Nicanor (and, later, Lentenor).

I hope Edgar is able to overcome those feelings and can ride Nicanor, because that would be a "full circle" situation and would be so satisfying to observe -- particularly when Nic wins.  I've thought about this and have become concerned that it might become a factor with Edgar.  I agree -- let's keep the "family" intact if at all possible.

Ida Lee

Because they are the type that love to put  others down.  Simple as that.  They must be really miserable in their own lives.  That is usually the reason.  :)  Not to worry.  The FOB family and horses are the best and always will be with 90% of the population that doesn't even like horse racing.  :)  Yaaaaaaaaaaaay Nicanor.  You did well yesterday.  We all love ya.  

Thanks for the info JAJ. Ya know, I will probably keep hoping for the Breeder's Cup just so I can see Nicanor.

And not to be mean or slight any jockey, but perhaps Nicanor needs to try different jockeys out until M.M. finds one that Nicanor will listen to. Nicanor may be more like Dynaformer than was initially evident in the beginning. And with this Dynaformer family, it probably doesn't have anything to do with the jockey skillset, but whether or not the Dynaformer child likes the jockey. Barbaro apparently loved Edgar Prado, but that doesn't mean that Nicanor has to care for him or Jose from yesterday for that matter.

And I don't want to get into  battle about whips, but I am just wondering, how often Peter Brette used the whip on Nicanor during training. If a headstrong colt isn't use to the whip and then gets it in his first or second race, is it possible that the whip may annoy him?

And if Mary is correct in regards to Nicanor being like Bold Ruler, methinks that Nicanor may act a little like Nasrullah...just a tad, just a little and whips didn't frighten Nasrullah, they simply annoyed him. My guess on Nicanor is that as he gets older, if you are nice to Nicanor, he will be nice to you. If you aren't nice to Nicanor, he just might sit on you.

I don't alway agree with you on Nicanor JAJ, and you don't appear to be invited to the Dynaformer/LVR soiree on Memorial Day, so we probably are never destined to meet, but you are a very knowledgeable horse person, so I do respect your insight. But I have no doubt that we will lock horns again in the future, especially involving Nicanor, although we haven't done so for a few weeks.

Thanks again for the rate info.

As far as the KD. Amanda made it clear on another blog that Nicanor was NOT going to the Derby.  I think all of us in tune people know this.  Whoever thinks he will go to the Derby or thinks that WE think he will go to the Derby is nuts.  He has not broke his maiden yet.  Geeeeeeeeesh he is doing very well.  The first race, there was an injury.  Second was much better.  Third?  Who knows?  Only Nicanor really.  I think that he is just a late bloomer.  

I love all horses.  It is the people that are connected to them that I can't stand.  The horse that beat Nicanor is a wonderful horse.  As most of you know, I cannot stand the jockey.  IMO he has to cheat to win.  I didn't see that yesterday but I would be very tweaky if I was in the gate next to that person.  Love the horse though.  :)  

Greg J.  Did you do the exacta box?  

Atta boy Nick! You done good. You lost the lead but you fought like hell to get it back.

A lot of horses won't do that-they quit once they get passed by another horse. That shows class!

I hope you came out of the race okay. You will get them next time.

For Penny question Matz saying that he will be abetter two turn horse is when a race when a horse runs around to turns not just when he is tuning for home in gulfstream track unless he run s him a mile and eight or grass race he wouldnt be able because in gulfstream is a one turn mile . i think that he will improve in longer race and we will find out about him in the summer.

Hope everyone will take the time to read the Hangin w/ Haskin blog on "Miracle" It is great!!

Dave, you need a reality check.  Evidentlly you have never owned a horse, loved a horse, much less an injured horse and if you had then they must not have been much more to you than a piece of trash.  I have owned a quarterhorse, roping horse that had an injury, a deep cut above the hoof, left his hoof dangling.  Back in 1969 a young vet operated on my horse in our back yard.  His back leg was in a cast and that vet saved his life.  His initial reaction was to put the horse down. Long story short,after the initial injury,a retire racing vet took my horse, put him in a sling, made a special shoe with a brace that ran up the back of his leg that attached to the upper part of his leg.  It took nearly a year for Buck to get over it, but he made it.  He went back to roping,and gave us all much joy. His only limitation was that he could not buck like he use to.  Our family was by far not rich, but Buck was a part of our family.  I may not know a lot of about race horses but I do know if that could be done in 1969 in a small town in Texas, with today's technology anything is possible.  It has nothing to do about money or having more Barbaro's.  It is about unconditional love.        

TO: 2 TIME VALLEY PLAYER:

Maybe you can call Michael Matz to give him your "expert opinion" on the race yesterday. I'm sure he's waiting for your call. lol

Stop judging stuff you all don't really know anything about! NONE of us here know what Nic was really doing, only the jockey and MM.

He's a nice horse, and showed that he's ready in this race. I was pleased to see his great improvement. For those who wish him to be a superstar, just let him be and watch. We don't need to try to peer into the future, just watch the NOW and enjoy. Most who peer into the future will be wrong, anyhow. Or just by chance hit what happens.

Anyhow, all of this speculating is simply a 'soup question' to 99.9% of us. Meaning regardless, none of it really matters to us, will change nothing for us.

Just enjoy the horse. MM is the ultimate horseman and will do his level best for his horses.

Atta boy, Nicanor!

Okay Phantom, you said "0-2 and counting.  Probably bounce next time out".  You mispelled a simple word "this".  Now, do you have anything intelligent or thoughtful to say.  I don't think you know anything about horses, so reading your posts is a waste of my time.  Have a nice day.

Read the post by JAJ.  It was an intelligently written post, and even though it did not paint Nicanor in the best of lights, there was something to learn from reading it.

People that hold horsey weddings like "My Little Pony" ... never mind...

Two Time Valley....That makes Custom For Carlos a good horse, too.  Another furlong, and Nicanor would have caught him.  I'm just being objective here.  For Nicanor or any other horse for that matter to make it to the race track is a long shot.  Thousands of horses are born each year, but comparably only a few make it to the track. So, I have great respect for all horses, particularly the very few that are intelligent and talented enough to be given the chance of a lifetime, to run for the gold.  I love them all.

Marigold,your wrong again 3rd time, neither[there are also other people who have a different opinion then you Amanda can confirm that ], are you Stardust also? You became so defensive when I rebutted her.

Stardust[Marigold] you need to tolerent, there are other opinions on this blog different then yours and that makes a blog.It doesn't make individuals mentalliy ill or nasty.You and many others seem bent on personal attacks if what they say is not to your liking nobody hates the horse, all comments are about his performance, i don't recall ever reading that some one said they hated  the horse, trainer, owner or jockey.

Stardust,

With all due respect, what racing NEEDS isn't a bunch of pretty pony posters, prattling on about how cute the horsie is. Racing needs GAMBLERS, that means people placing BETS on horses at the windows.  That is the problem with racing.  The FOB does some good work, but all of the happy huggy feelie stuff does nothing significant to promote racing.  If racing goes down the tubes, there won't be enough room to put all of the pretty horsies.

I feel sorry for the RACE FANS who have to forge their way through the wailing, crying throng of emotional people who will be there for the unveiling of Barbaro's statue on April 29th.  I hope CD has the sense to forbid them to light candles, and litter the statue with flowers cards and peppermints.  Racing is a BUSINESS that needs REVENUE.

You say you "GET IT" but you are CLUELESS.

truly, and I'm not trying to be nasty, It's just the truth.

After reading more comment I have to agree. Edward Prado is a GREAT Jockey. He has such a strong work ethic. I read his book and he really does know horses. Plus he cares. That makes him great in my book.

Yawn, Secretariat lost his maiden race, so did Omaha and Gallant Fox who lost twice.  Assault lost his maiden race by 12 lengths, and only won 2 of 9 races, before entering the Kentucky Derby.  All of these horses were Triple Crown winners. Also don't forget about the wonderful Seabiscuit, who beat Triple Crown winner War Admiral in a match race. With all due respect, please do a little reading before you post again.    

I wonder if Nicanor's connections have thought about blinkers for Nicanor.  Just a thought. at times I think he was a bit distracted, so this may help him to focus.

Thank you Marigold.  I appreciate it.  

I agree with Phantom. This is a blog where people state their OPINIONS, not a blog where the sole purpose is to go nuts and gaga over a horse that has yet to prove himself. While some of the comments here have been nasty, I myself welcome objective opinions, and the fact of the matter is no one will really know how well this colt does until his 4th race or so. So everybody CALM DOWN! lol.

I am soooooo proud of our Nicanor.  He did very well.  You could tell he WANTED to win.  It was very encouraging and exciting to see how he tried even harder right at the very end of the race to win.  I wish I could give him hugs, kisses, carrots, and mints.

Thank you so much for keeping us so well informed and so promptly too!!  How is La Ville Rouge doing?  I hope she is well and we will have news soon on precious brother #3!!!!!

Excuse me people but in the second photo I see a whip.

THE PHANTOM:

Must be nice not to ever let knowledge enter your thoughts! lol

TO: Marigold

Problem is some individuals on here thrive in being senseless jerks! Like yourself,I'm a fan of Nicanor.

Nic you are so obviously learning and growing into yourself. You've progressed so much already.  I watched your second race on a big screen with Simulcast, and from that I could almost see you "processing" as you ran. Every now and then you look around and seem to have a sudden thought like "OMG where am I, where did all these other horses come from, what's happening, what should I be doing here?" that takes your mind away from the moment.  But, you need this time to get those questions settled -- racing is so different from what you've done previously. Like a young teenager, you are getting it all together and who can say what we'll see once it has all "gelled" in your mind, and once the rest of your body systems fully catch up to your present size.  Bless you, you are such a sweet boy -- your face and your manner say it all.  I'm so glad you came home safe, and know that you will only get stronger and faster with time.

And, yes, if anyone missed this, the whip was used to spark your catch-up effort in the stretch and to let you know you should keep trying.  Once in the right hand, then on the left for several strokes -- but then you "got it" and ran on by your own inclination to go.  You will get there.  Maybe even grow some more to match those beautiful big feet!

As far as "can't be rated" goes, maybe some careful attention to your bitting would help.  It looked to me like you had your tongue over the bit and hanging out the left side of your mouth from early in the race, which, although it makes you look just like a charming and enthusiastic puppy, isn't good in terms of the bit doing what it's supposed to do. It could even make your breathing more difficult. (This isn't a new thing for you, either, we both know.) Tell your folks that, in the unlikely event they need help with this, "The Whole Horse Catalog" contains a lot of good info and discussion about solutions (other than a tongue tie) for this exact problem.

To your detractors -- for shame -- winning $7000., by placing second, and losing are not at all the same thing.

Don't listen to such nonsense, Nic, you are doing just fine.  Bet those sillies are just jealous because they aren't as good-looking as you are!

I was pretty surprised to hear Prado was not riding him at first.   Way to go Nicky.  Fantastic. Hope to see you in the winners circle next time.

I agree with you, Mike.  They seem to take a perverse delight in jabbing some of the posters on this blog.  Some of them are interchangeable and (I suspect) one and the same person.

I will always be a fan of Nicanor's even if he never wins a race (not very likely that that will happen).

I can handle it but some of the posters here, some of the most ardent ones, are youngsters.  One wants to say, pick on someone your own size.

Mike  Right on.  You rock!  You took the words right out of my mouth.  I can't add to that.  THAT was perfection.  

Marigold  I do agree with you on Prado.  He was devistated over Barbaro and still is.  Good point.

Don't even bother with the idiots that come over here to bash these horses.  They are trying to get a rise out of us and it ain't working with me.  Bunch of brainless jerks that have no life.  

We are the FOB family and we love them all.  

Wedding is still on and the trolls that should not even be on here are not invited.  :)

Happy Trails Nicanor and Barbaro Family.  We love all of you. Miss ya big guy.  OK off to the wedding blog.  It is so much more positive than this.  I am really glad Nicanor can't read this blog.  Poor thing.  A blog dedicated to him and the brothers of Barbaro and he gets put down.  That is about as low as a person can go.  

WE LOVE YOU NICANOR.  US THAT TRULY GET IT!  

Mr Mike Revla, weren't you the one who was raving about Haynesfield to win the Gotham -he's still running toward the finish line, you picked another loser!You sure aren't much of a handicapper!LOL.You can't accept a different view, your crying towel must be soaked.Keep handicapping your picking losers that seems to be the extent of your knowledge.

Dear "Yawn" and others of like mind, if I read it correctly the title of this blog is "Tracking Barbaro's Brothers", not "Betting Window for Barbaro's Brothers".

Please remember this is the blog that had us posting Haiku's for the Barbaro family, remember?? This IS the place for all the "huggy, feely" posts where FOB's and others with " horse stars" in their eyes can come...

Why torture yourself here because of less "educated" posts?, or be mean to others because you've lost that goofy love of the horse?...there's plenty of other blogs out there...plus, you don't have time to read the drivel, you should be betting!!!

yawn

Do us all a favor and take your final yawn.  :)

Why in the world would anyone with half a heart be jealous of a wedding that we are putting together for LVR and Dynaformer?  Are there really people that are that jealous of Barbaro?  They just can't stand it that he is THE horse that made the difference for the industry?  He is the BEST!  

His brothers follow suit.  NO HORSES are as famous as they are.  Not even Curlin!  :-)

Mike Relva:

Hi! We missed you, how are your horses doing?

JeezLouise

Most of us don't care about your opinions.  :)

Kitei, perfect post!  LOVED it.

Two Timer, what was that?

For Big Red, I know all about Secretariat's pedigree.  I have written about it many times on other posts.  Discovery "The Iron Horse" produced some great daughters, including Miss Disco, as did Secretariat, Weekend Surprise for one. From everything that I have read, Princequillo was a sound even-tempered horse.

I am well aware that Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial.  Secretariat's speed was inherited from his sire Bold Ruler. His ability to sustain that speed came from his dam, Somethingroyal; she carried the "big heart" gene.  Google "Secretariat X-factor".  It is a great read if you are interested in pedigree.  As you know Somethingroyal's sire was Princequillo. Discovery, Nasrullah, and Princequillo were all great horses.

OH may I add this.  If Nicanor or Lentenor or any of MM's horses are not running, I don't watch racing!  LOL  I don't give a rats ass about it.  I care about the horses and the FOB's are cleaning up the mess that the rotten people have created.  I would say that we are doing a darn good job too.  Some trainers kick their horses to the curb if they don't win or leave them in a field to die.  They care nothing about the animal.  Just the money.  

Nicanor brings love to this sport.  As does all of the Barbaro family.  People that come here to a "Tracking Barbaro's Brothers" blog to put down the horses and family are downright evil.  :)

Kathy,

Yes, I'm sure we'll lock horns from time to time.  I've been in the racehorse game for over 10 years, first as an owner and now as a very small breeder.  I have a couple of promising horses in training now.

Here's a beef I have with many of the Nicanor fans--I wish everyone would stop saying he was just like some famous and very distant ancestor.  He is himself, Nicanor, and he certainly isn't finished developing.

Jockeys don't really have relationships with their horses the way the grooms do.  They have more of a working relationship.  Some jockeys are able to get horses to run their eyeballs out for them, and it isn't because the horse "loves" them.

Kathy, you had a very interesting question on the use of a stick on a first- or second-time starter.  Based on the breeze times Nicanor did, it would appear that Michael Matz did not ever "set him down" in the lane (which means to really ask him to run) in his works, so it is likely that the first time he felt a whip was in a race.

I asked my trainer about that last year since I really hate to see a horse abused by a rider and my 2-year old was about to start.  My trainer never really asks them to run in their works, too, so he had never been hit that I knew of.  Yes, it is possible the whip could annoy him.  He could show that by flipping his tail every time he was hit or by ducking out (sideways) away from the whip.  I don't think Nicanor was bothered at all.  Horses are pretty tough--they bite and kick each other to communicate.  The thicker whips aren't hard on them.  I've seen some jockeys with little tiny wire-thin whips.  Those would really hurt.

Whips are also used to control where a horse runs, which is why they should never be completely banned.  They are needed to keep everyone safe.  Have you ever seen a rider hold his whip off to the side of a horse's head?  That is to keep the horse from lugging in or out and going straight.  They never hit a horse in the face.

For Big Red, I neglected to tell you that I enjoyed reading your post, very imformative.  

helsbelles

I like your post.  It does feel like we won the KD.  I know exactly what you mean.  I am sure a lot of us do.  We GET IT.  We love Nicanor and these trolls are eventually going to dissapate.  They are really not welcome over here as far as I am concerned and I am sure I am not alone LOL. Sooner or later they will get bored with themselves and go play Pac Man.  :)

Kitei, wonderful post.  Thank you.

very impressive. looked good rating, show good speed and switched leads in the stretch. nice race. happily supried. he is going in my virtual stable for sure. way to go nicanor

Mary,

Nicanor does NOT need blinkers.  He is running straight.  Blinkers will make him more aggressive--he needs to relax.

By the way, Yawn was correct--racing needs gamblers because that is what fuels the industry.  It is a huge industry and employs a lot of people.  The industry is a lot larger than just what you see at the racetrack--it supports vets, the tack shops, feed stores, breeding farms, the farms that produce the feed....  Millions and millions of dollars of money is brought into the US from outside buyers of yearlings and juveniles in training.  There are a lot of interesting people employed (and accepted) at farms and the backstretch who couldn't find jobs in the "real world."

Going to the track or an off track betting facility (and make sure your money is going to the track and not to some overseas on-line betting business who puts ZERO money back into the horses and horsemen) is a lot of fun.  It doesn't need to be an expensive afternoon, but it really is fun.

I have read the BH blogs for a while, incuding this one, and I have a couple of my own thoughts.

Did some of you see the actual race, or do you just see Nicanor, "BROTHER OF BARABRO", in a race?

I do not think he'd have won if he'd had an extra furlong, or and extra 10 feet. Had his gallop out been strong, had he ever passed Custom For Carlos after the wire, then you might have something. But he didn't. That can be a very strong way to judge how much a horse had left after a race.

This does not mean that Nicanor won't win next time. Or eventually. It means yesterday's race was what it was. A much improved second place finish from his debut a month earlier.

I actually fully expect him to win next out, if he's spotted correctly, and they spend the next 4-6 weeks teaching this horse how to rate. He will get nowhere, sprinting or going 2 miles, if he doesn't relax. He's very young, he's very green, and I have every belief the rest will come in time.

Also, once and for all, the whip was indeed used.

For the record, Dynaformer's are not sprinters, in general.

However, La Ville Rouge's lines provide a pretty heavy argument for horses who "shouldn't be able" to get a distance. But, couple a mare with a miler pedigree to a tufy type sire who's progeny can get a good distance, it tends to even out a bit. SOMETIMES.

LVR's sire, Carson City, has produced sprinter after sprinter. Two well-knowns of that numerous bunch are Cuvee and City Zip. Even Pollard's Vision, who I would call an exception to the Carson City sire line, struggled beyond 9f, unless the company was weak and he was lone speed.

That said, the very last thing that Nicanor looks like to me, is a sprinter.

You're all asking entirely too much from this breeding, IMHO, and I can only wager a guess it's because there was a Barbaro. Well, Barbaro was the exception that proves the rule.

If you truly go do some research into Dynaformer's progeny in general, you will see his better offspring did not really develop until they were well into their 4th years. And that's if they did at all.

Dynaformer did not become a commercial sire until Barbaro. This isn't a criticism, but he has already begun to fall back off the popularity wagon. He's a turf sire, predominantly, and in this country, unfortunately, no one's that interested in turf breeding. Even worse, in this country's mind set of instant return on investment, he produces horses who are better as they get older, not hot 2 and 3 year olds.

If La Ville Rouge's breeding to Dynaformer somehow manages to consistently produce useful dirt horses who can get any route of ground, this still won't create a stampede to Dynaformer's door, as people can and will understand it's a specific mare, not the stallion.

Don't believe me? Go research Cee's Tizzy and Cee's Song, and then check out Cee's Tizzy without Cee's Song.

Perfect Drift may be the very best example of Dynaformer's get. He's certainly Dynaformer's highest money earner and biggest winner, but it took him nine years to get there. While he too tailed off with age, his seasons at age 4-5-6 were his best, without question.

To each their own, but the Barbaro/Nicanor/Lentenor/Unborn foal/As-yet-to-happen next breeding produced foal lovers are pretty high and mighty considering you do nothing but try to toss everyone but each other out of here. It sort of begs the question, who is really mean-spirited and intolerant around here, consistently?

People can't even point out he hasn't won yet without invoking wrath. He hasn't won yet, right?? So that is true, but should not be said because as opposed to it being fact, it's negative?

Enjoy Nicanor. I have certainly loved other people's racehorses to the point of distraction some days. But not to the point my inability to be objective was all but surgically removed. Nor did I ever think I was more involved with someone else's racehorse than I actually was. There's a thin line sometimes between reality and fantasy, and I have to say, it gets crossed and blurred beyond recognition here more often than not.

I think that's all anyone else here is trying to say. Let's discuss this all you want, but with some thought, some knowledge, and those without a lot of experience with racing trying to learn, instead of just trying to set fire to the rest that do know a thing or two.

I am not condoning those who have posted some really ugly things here. It's uncalled for, and juvenile, to say the least.

But the FOBs are not innocent in that either, from what I have read over the weeks.

I got into racing when I was about 10 years old, a very long time ago sadly, LOL. Without the benefit of internet, I read. Everything I could get my hands on. I knew how to read DRF by the time I was 11 or 12. I wanted to become on a "first name basis" with this sport, I wanted all my questions answered. I read every book, mostly non-fiction, but a lot of the horsey lover types too.

All these years later, I still can and usually do learn something new almost every day. It's what keeps this sport and my passion for these horses alive.

If some of you here would be more open-minded to those who have been around the block a few times, even if their opinions differ from yours, it might open up for you that much more of this sport, and these horses, to love.

Sorry for all the posts.  I do want to help people learn about the great sport of horseracing that I love so much.

Kitei,

The tongue hanging out...

I know this is going to sound cruel, but it isn't.  After Nicanor had is bridle put on in his stall before he went to the paddock for his race, someone grabbed his tongue, pulled it as far forward as they could and tied a "tongue tie" around it. It was then tied to his bottom jaw.

The reason is so that he never pulls his tongue back into his throat and block off his air supply.  There is talk that it opens up the airways, lessening the effort needed to pull air into the lungs.  Reducing pressure in the nose and throat is thought to reduce the incidence of bleeding in the lungs.

Who is Nicanor's groom? From the way  Nicky is leaning trustfully toward his groom,he shows his affection.

OK,  I'll join the crowd:

Oh, NickyKnocks, you are such a swell horsie, running while Barbaro watches over you.  You have such splendid wonderful connections.  Mr & Mrs Jackson are such giving caring people and would never race where anything would happen.  Michael Matz is the best trainer in the world. Edgar, I hope you get better so you can ride Little Nicky if Jose cant.  Jose, you are such a swell jockey, and a gentle whipper.  And we must not forget the farrier who shod Nicky with such care and skill. With all of the wonderful happy people around Nicky Knocks, he will win all of his future races, including 2 Breeders' Cup races (the Classic and the Turf)and get Horse of the Year, 3 Year Old, and Turf Horse at the Eclipse awards.  Jacksons will get Breeder's and Owner's Eclipse, and of course Edgar and Jose will tie to be top Jockeys, and Michael Matz will be top trainer.

I "get it" and am so happy, I'll go to the candle site and light up a few.  Peppermints and carrots to you sweet little horsie!!!!!

Happy Now?  I GET IT!!!!

I'm responding to several comments made here regarding Secretariat .... I adore this horse ... there is no other before or since like him for me.

OK ... I don't remember all the posters' names, so forgive me for just responding generally:

1.  Someone mentioned that Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial, his final prep race leading up to the Triple Crown races.  As was stated in William Nack's book "The Making of a Champion", the reason that Sec lost the Wood was due to a bad abscess under his lip.  He wasn't 100% and should not have been raced that day; hence the loss.  The other 2 races he lost were the Woodward and the Whitney (maybe he just didn't like the letter "W" ;) ), and again Secretariat was not physically in top form for either of those races either.

With regard to Secretariat's bloodline, from from I read, he got the speed from the Nearco/ Nasrullah/Bold Ruler line and the stamina/staying power from somethingroyal/princequillo/Imperatrice.  That's why he was able to run at any distance and win; he had the perfect combination of speed and stamina.

Secretariat ran 'off the pace' for the majority of his races.  He loved to 'come from behind' and tear the dirt up when he was ready to make his move.  It was like watching sheer poetry in motion to watch his just sit there, almost last, and in some cases, he was dead last, and then all of a sudden just turn it on and steamroll through the pack.  He did it in the Derby and the Preakness and the earlier races as well.  He was a very very smart horse who knew exactly what to do and when to do it.  With regard to the famous Belmont, Penny Chenery said he just wanted to run that day and Ronnie let him just go and go and go and go ... unforgettable, unsurpassable, unconquerable.

He did lose his very first race because he "lacked room between horses racing into the turn, ducked to the inside getting through to the stretch, and finished full of run along the rail."

Ronnie said that Secretariat should never have lost a race, period.  And he didn't except when he was raced not at full physical form.

Congratulations to the Nicanor team, great improvement, short of winning this is exactly what one should hope for. He looks great, still a little thin but filling out nicely. He had to start somewhere, so the decision to run him a mile in his first race might escape us due to his unexpected difficulties but the decision to drop down to 7f is quite common. First of all, he needed this race to get back "in the saddle" so to speak. It is also quite common to stretch out to a 11/6 next time out. I thought maybe they wanted to see if he has tactical speed, let him move up in a good position, relax a little, take a breather and then kick for home. Some horses can do all that in 7f, some can't, but it didn't work out for Nicanor and maybe it was due to his immaturity. If he learned anything today, listen to your jockey should be #1. I'm so happy for the connections that he showed he has talent and heart. A nice maiden allowance in 4 0r 5 weeks of 11/6 would be great. Anything comming up Greg?

Oh, just a word here about expressing an opinion. Some of these bashers aren't expressing an opinion. They are making statements, expressing a view, a belief or as I suspect, they're just being contrary.  There's no logical reason why someone would look at this horse, his pedigree, his workouts and his first race and pronounce him a lower class stakes or claiming canidate. The only thing you can get from all that has transpired is that he looks like he might have potential, showed good works, nothing special but with his pedigree that's not unusual and he encountered problems in his first race. We'll see what happens next is an appropiate stance or I don't see anything there yet but to lash out at his supporters, calling them names and bad mouthing the horse is a very good indication that you are not a good sport,don't love these wonderful animals and must be in the racing game for the money,to get attention or worse yet, have no friends. Jumping on a site and just blabbing about the people or predicting a bad future for a young horse just getting started makes no sense.  Some people claim to be a good person but don't act like it and some people are just hateful. You can't ignore them, they won't let you. You can't reason with them or argue with them, debate them, nothing because of their sardonic comments. What's the answer?

A friends' grandaughter is really getting into horses and loves to read all about them. She asked her riding instructor " why do people hate horses", she was talking about this site.  Becky is 8yrs old, fell in love with Nicanor and  will become a wonderful animal person for the rest of her life because of him. Pity it didn't happen for you naysayers.  

yawn

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the racing industry is taking a nose dive.  Pretty soon there won't be racing with the stuff that is going on.  We are done with the fatalities and we are done with the abuse and neglect to the beautiful horses.  We are Barbaro's voice.  :)

I have read every comment here about Nicanor, the FOB 'cult' and everything else in between ...

The definition of 'cult' is "fad, rage, craze" ... I hardly think that describes the Fans of Barbaro, whether you agree with them or not.  This supposed "craze" has lasted more than 2 full years; fads quickly fade in and out.  So you might want to find another word to describe this 'family' as I like to call it; families are forever; they stick around and they help each other.  Cults remind me of Charles Manson ... yes, the craze for sure.

I find it amazing how many judgmental posts I read from people who are quick to make a snap 'call' about something.  Nicanor has run 2 races, and in my opinion, the first one didn't count because we all know he grabbed a quarter and was eased up by Edgar.  Edgar did the right thing, period.  So that race was an illusion.

Nic's first real race was Saturday ... he has improved vastly between Jan 31 and March 7 and he came in a very strong second behind the odds on favorite Custom for Carlos under Desormeaux.  Say what you will, detractors, but for me, that was a damn good showing for Nic.

I don't care if he's Barbaro or not; in fact, I make no comparison because he is his own 'man', if you know what I mean.  Let Nicanor be judged by who Nicanor is and how Nicanor races.  Please don't judge so quickly how he has raced thus far, or more importantly, what the future holds for him.  No one knows ... no one.

Michael Matz is a great trainer, in my opinion; Edgar Prado is a hall of fame jockey, nuff said there.  Lezcano rode Nicanor yesterday because that was meant to happen for any number of reasons.  As it turns out, Edgar was ill and wouldn't have ridden him anyway.  I agree with the poster who said that each horse may have a different 'fit' where a jockey is concerned.  Edgar was great on Barbaro and damn saved his life on the track at Pimlico that day.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Edgar will be a perfect fit with Nicanor.  Maybe it will be Jose Lezcano, or maybe it will be another jockey, but circumstances dictated beforehand that Edgar would not be available to ride Nic yesterday.  This is all 'trial and error' ... to see how Nic does with different riders ... that makes perfect sense to me.

Nicanor has had 2 races (1 actually since I don't count the Jan. 31 outing).  Secretariat lost his first maiden race and came back to win the second.  Let's see what Nic does next time out.  He is progressing slowly but have you ever read the story of the tortoise and the hare ... "slow and steady wins the race."

Let's give everyone time to adjust to being out there on the track.  Let's try to be kind; if we can't be kind, let's be constructive in our criticism; if we can't be constructive, let's not be judgmental and rude; at the very least, let's stop and think before our fingers hit the keyboard.

Nic ran a great race yesterday ... pure and simple ... he's got a lot to learn, and I have faith that he is a quick study.

Go, Baby, Go!

Hey, before jumping all over some of the more, shall we say, misty-eyed posters here, let's consider the probability that a large percentage of them are probably kids. It's natural that they'll romanticize this a bit. Yes, some do have a lot to learn about racing, but don't turn them off of it now by being nasty.

Hey Nicanor.  I just got done talking to Barbaro and he had some very wise advise.  He said that these naysayers are foaming at the mouth because they see so much happieness and serenity with you and your brothers.  They just can't stand it when things are nice and pleasent.  

Barbaro told me that you are in his heart and always will be forever.  None of us that are on the Barbaro train will EVER turn on you or any of Dynaformer/LVR horses.  Actually not even either of them with other mates.  So from Barbaro this is how it goes;  

Words are on a computer screen.. He said to just;

Scroll scroll scroll gently past the troll and not harbor any hate.  He said to just feel sorry for these naysayers and leave it at that.  We love you Nicanor and there are thousands of us that do.  The naysayers and trolls are few and far between.  They don't matter in the grand scheme of things when it comes right down to the rescue and the wealfare of the horses.  They mean nothing. :)

Stardust how can you not like Kent Desormeaux,3 time winner of the Derby and a nose away from the Triple Crown.

Mike,

    Hey, i was wondering when you would show up on here. I know your a nicanor fan, and i too like to follow his progress. I will say ppl on here either think this horse is the second coming or Man o war or a cheap claimer, there's almost no middle ground. Me, i feel he'll get better as time goes. I'd love to see what he could do on turf, but so far it looks like MM thinks he's a dirt horse. He should improve with more distance and experience. When around the turn he looked like he dropped the bit for a split second, probably looking at the crowd, but when he saw Carlos he dug right back in. If it had not been for inexperience i think he would've been the winner by about 2 lengths. I would not look for him in the Preakness or the Belmont, but maybe the Haskel or Travers if he improves enough, which i think he can. He may not be Barbaro, but he's a very nice gutsy colt that seems to be the whole package, but just needs to put everything togeather. I think when he does he'll be very competitive in the upper levels of racing.

hope 2 c u improve big boy! good job and good luck!

Yawn,

The "crying people" as you call them will be going to the races after the unveiling.  We go to races all over the country and most of us never went before.  Yes we bet and do what we can to support the sport.  Obviously you didn't know that.

Way to go Nicanor! I'm glad to see how much he has improved. Being honest though, he's a far shot from any of the triple crown races. But that's okay. If he stays sound, I think he will be a pretty good racehorse. My bet is that he'll just get better as he gets older. I expect his four-year-old season to be better than this year's (again, if he stays sound).

It would certainly be interesting to see what Nicanor could do on the turf...possibly. But, who knows? Matz will do what is right by the horse and there's not much more we can ask for in the sport of horse racing.

To Dave: I have to disagree with you about the Jacksons and Barbaro. I respect your opinions as everyone is entitled to them. However, Barbaro's injury was a freak accident. He stepped on his foot wrong. All of his weight was on a sliver of his hoof. ANY horse, even a warmblood or draft, would have broken their leg in that position.

As for the Jacksons, the love the Jackson's had for Barbaro was and is still obvious.

Just because they dared to save a horse, doesn't make them terrible people. Barbaro's broken leg, the broken one mind you, completely healed. If the vets simply could have kept the laminitis at bay, he would have been fine! There are horses in Australia who have had a leg amputated (yes I said amputated!) and been given a prosthetic. These horses have not only lived, but have been able to move around as comfortably as a normal horse.

Honestly, just because they didn't give up and say kill him there with absolutely no dignity at all does not make them bad people.

Anyway, I just had to put in my two cents about what Dave said. I do not intend to bash anyone's opinions, but I thought the comments about the Jacksons and Barbaro's injury were uncalled for.

Ending on a happier note: I'm very proud of Nicanor and look forward to seeing him race again - safely. Lower allowance runner or as a Grade I stakes winner!

Stardust said -

"As far as the KD. Amanda made it clear on another blog that Nicanor was NOT going to the Derby.  I think all of us in tune people know this.  Whoever thinks he will go to the Derby or thinks that WE think he will go to the Derby is nuts.  He has not broke his maiden yet.  Geeeeeeeeesh he is doing very well.  The first race, there was an injury.  Second was much better.  Third?  Who knows?  Only Nicanor really.  I think that he is just a late bloomer.  

I love all horses.  It is the people that are connected to them that I can't stand.  The horse that beat Nicanor is a wonderful horse.  As most of you know, I cannot stand the jockey.  IMO he has to cheat to win.  I didn't see that yesterday but I would be very tweaky if I was in the gate next to that person.  Love the horse though.  :)"

Let's see, in this post, you have insulted FANS who want to see Nicanor in the Kentucky Derby (they are "nuts"), people "connected" to horses, and once again, KENT DESORMEAUX, and with no reason. Kent's horse, Custom for Carlos, BEAT Nicanor. That means that NICANOR WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH or he would have won. You say Kent cheats - PROVE IT!! You say that people who "bash" Edgar Prado are "mentally ill" (when YOU are the one repeatedly trashing Prado because he didn't ride Nicanor in this race), yet you continue to malign KENT DESORMEAUX (That is the name of the WINNING JOCKEY in Nicanor's second race) for no reason whatsoever and no proof of any wrongdoing on his part. You call other people "nuts" and "mentally ill," but YOU are the one planning a wedding between two horses. Holy crap, go back and read your own posts! It's no wonder people here think you are under 10! Trust me, you _don't_ "GET IT!" Geeeeeeeeeeeshh!!!!!!!!!!

TO Kitei - um... placing second the same thing as losing. If I had a WIN ticket on Nicanor, even though HE earned $7,000, I still get nothing. I can't go to the window and say, "Placing second and losing are not the same thing..." and expect to cash in my WIN ticket. He lost. Get over it.

Okay you guys. I understand why some people would be upset at the 'bashing' of Edgar Prado. But the thing is, some jockeys just work better with certain horses. That doesn't make the other jockeys bad, just not right for that horse.

Personally i was very excited with the second, and i am looking forward to his next race.

Mary, in Bill Nack's book "Big Red of Meadow Stable" (I think it's since been re-published under a different title - "Secretariat: The Making of a Champion" I think...), he says, about Ron Turcotte in the Preakness: "He reacted instantly, almost by instinct.  He reached and shortened his line in a quick flicking of the wrists, a movement of the hands so subtle, barely noticeable, yet a signal to the red horse that it was time."

In Raymond Woolf's book "Secretariat", he quotes Turcotte as saying, "The pace was slow for the first quarter so I decided to go around horses."

In the June 11, 1973 issue of TIME magazine, the cover story was on Secretariat, and on page 87, at the bottom of the page and continuing onto the next page, it says "Around the first turn, Turcotte decided the pace was too slow and chirped to the horse..."

No one is a bigger fan of Secretariat than I am, but he was not planning his own race strategy.  His rider and trainer did that for him.  I was deeply respectful of Mrs. Tweedy (as she was then) and Mrs. Chenery (as she is now) as an owner and as a representative of my favorite sport, but she herself admits she was still learning the game in those days.  She knew an awful lot, but perhaps not everything.  And she wasn't the one on the horse.

As far as people thinking he'd moved too soon - yes, I was among them.  "What the heck is Turcotte thinking?"  But of course he knew the horse, and knew what he was doing.  For the record, I thought he was going way too fast too early in the Belmont, too, and I was wrong about that one, as well.

Now, as this is a blog about Barbaro's brothers, can we get back to that?  

Considering he got absolutely nothing out of his first race, this was an outstanding effort.  He will get better with each start and start blossoming into something special before you know it.

So many posts from me!  Sorry!

I hope everyone is following Animal Planet's reality show, "Jockeys."  You'll learn a lot about horseracing and get a look at it from the jockey's perspective.  It has been renewed for a second season and filming is just beginning.

It is exciting that one of the stars, red hot 19-year old Joe Talamo is riding a legitimate Kentucky Derby horse, I Want Revenge.

The show features some of the top jockeys at Santa Anita--people like Mike Smith (Zenyatta), Aron Gryder and of course Talamo--as well as some apprentice riders, their agents and even professional gamblers.  They even film disciplinary hearings with the racing stewards.

The intro shows a lot of spills, but that is not the focus of the show.  In those spills, the horses clipped heels (stepped on another horse) and went down.  I think everyone--horses and riders--got up without any serious injuries, except the spill from over a decade ago featuring Mike Smith.  He was almost killed with severe back injuries.  I believe his horse was fine.  I think most if not all of the spills were rider errors.

This Friday might be the final episode featuring last fall's Breeder's Cup.

I hope all the of you join me in watching this TV show.

I watched the race Saturday and I think if Nicanor had another furlong he would've won easily.  He did seem a little uneasy when Customs for Carlos passed him, but he was gaining on him at the finish line and another furlong he would've passed him.  Nicanor is at least a miler anything else is too short.  He's going to be a fantastic horse once he figures out exactly what his job is and gets a race that is the distance he is bred for.  It was a fantastic race, I thoroughly enjoyed it!  Can't wait to see Nicanor run again!

da3hoss:

Thanks, great post!

stardust;

funny yawn post!

Cleone, you are misunderstanding everything that I have said.  I give up; I'm not going to go into lengthy detail.  Now, like you said back to Nicanor.  It is okay to talk about other horses, but the main topic is Nicanor.

Concerned Fan, if you had had a place ticket on Nicanor you would have won a bit of money.  Look, Nicanor did a fine job.  You'll just have to accept the fact that Nicanor did a fine job.  Another fact, he has talent.

Linnie, enjoyed reading your comments.  In reference to Secretariat's pedigree don't forget Miss Disco whose sire was the great "Discovery".      

"Stardust" wrote:

****

OH may I add this.  If Nicanor or Lentenor or any of MM's horses are not running, I don't watch racing!  LOL  I don't give a rats ass about it.  I care about the horses and the FOB's are cleaning up the mess that the rotten people have created.  I would say that we are doing a darn good job too.  Some trainers kick their horses to the curb if they don't win or leave them in a field to die.  They care nothing about the animal.  Just the money.

******

This is the saddest, most "ugly" thing I have read here. And for the first time, a post ANYwhere here has actually pissed me off instead of just amusing me.

For all the accusations of trolls and nasty/negative comments, you just won the grand freakin prize, "Stardust".

I suspected all along that you were not to be counted as a new fan of the SPORT, so that by itself does not surprise me.

But it's unbelievably offensive.

You live in your little Barbaro/Nicanor bubble, but it's YOU who could not care less for this sport AND the horses in it. If you had half the maturity, or brain function you'd see that your above statements are categorically WRONG.

NO interest in learning squat about this sport, none.

You have NO idea that Matz is not the only exceptional and caring trainer out there, that the Jacksons are not the only ones who give a rat's a** about their horses, but far worse, you have no desire to look for yourself.

Speaking as someone who loves this sport more than you can possibly imagine, and actually KNOWS it, and with whatever little respect you're due after comments like that, maybe it's YOU who should go. Scratch the maybe.

Go start your own Nicanor website someplace and shower it with hearts and flowers and love songs, but get the **** away from MY beloved sport.

Honestly, how DARE you make such a blanket statement, with absolutely NO knowledge, NO basis in reality, and not a fact anywhere in sight.

The sport doesn't need anyone like you, no matter who you THINK you are.

You're riding on FOB charity coat tails, but what was the last thing YOU ever did, personally? You post here DOZENS of times a day, with NOTHING to say or contribute, doesn't leave a whole lot of time for saving horses and raising money now, does it??

I'll tell you who you are...You're not a fan, by ANY stretch.. you're a thinly veiled racing OPPONENT, hiding behind projected "love" for one horse, and his connections.

If THIS is what the FOBs bring to the table, and what they stand for...good riddance, IMO. Go save horses and hold Ebay auctions to give money to charities who have RIPPED OFF their own foundations (oh yes, they HAVE, do your damn homework), but stay the hell out of a sport that a lot of people actually love over ALL.

No more free passes because you come off as "young ", Stardust, you just lost any pardons for that.

JAJ, Nicanor is running straight, but blinkers are also used to block part of the vision of the horse so as to enable him to concentrate in racing and not be sidetracked by other factors.   For just a moment I think that Nicanor lost his concentration.  Objectively, most of you have to agree, he really should have won the race. He's a talented horse.

Thank you JAJ on the whip/crop/stick question. And also on the jockey question.

Good luck JAJ on your two prospects. When it comes time, let everyone know what their names are, so we can root them on also.

I have faith that in three years Nicanor will still be racing and winning. Nicanor enjoys the race and when he begins to win, he will enjoy that also. Love you Nicanor.

I came to the Bloodhorse website to follow the plight and fight of Barbaro. Having watched Secretariat(THE BEST EVER) win the Triple Crown, I was more interested than ever in horseracing, but it was limited to newspaper reports and television. Since reading, and then joining this blog, I have learned many things about horseracing and thoroughbreds in general. A thank you to Mary,Wanda,JAJ, and others for your expert discussions and explanation of terms. But I never went to a track just to bet, the one nearest me wasn't a very "safe" or attractive place to be, Arlington was too far away to travel to when I was busy with my children. With the internet available now, I MAY place a bet, but I don't have money to "throw away", epecially in today's economy. Whenever I can afford to place a bet or two I will. I am hear to learn more, and support the connections of the bravest horse since Ruffian(which did turn me away from watching for awhile). What I can't understand, is why anyone would take the time to bash people on this blog, who are only here in their concern and interest of a certain horse's connections. Do you have nothing else to do but think up harsh replies to people who have done nothing to you personally? Why don't you stick to the blogs of Jason and Steve where your "factual" responses to their articles can be argued sensibly?

JAJ: Yes, I have been watching jockeys, wish they would show more on HOW the jockeys interact with the horses, not just ride them. Hopefully they'll show of this with their renewal of the show.

Secretariat's heart weighed 20 lbs.

Now THAT was strategic.

My Migraine, I am baffled by your comments to Stardust's post.  Do you really think that what she had to say warranted such an offensive post? You may want to consider leaving this site and posting on a page where you have a bit more in common with the other posters.  Just a suggestion.

Mary,

Yes, I would have guessed you'd be "baffled", as you're cut from the same cloth.

Mary

It isn't a big deal.  This is a child that isn't even 18 years old living with mommy and daddy.  She has an obsession with me for some reason.  I find it rather cute that she is so wrapped up in my life and doesn't even know me LOL.  

I conseider the source.  

As for being a FOB I am damn proud to be one.  I love the family and always will.  Sure I love all horses.  Comments like that are just confirmation of how that person really is.  :)

Masochist, Secretariat ran every race with a heavy heart, literally.  You know, Sham, his nearest competitor also had a large heart, not as large as Secretariat's, but nevertheless it was abnormally large.  

The reason I come to "Tracking Barbaro's Brothers" blog is because that is where I want to be.  The troll is right.  I care a lot about the Barbaro family.  I care about all the horses that are being helped because of him.  

Sure there are "some" owners and trainers that have my respect.  I sure am not going to put down names.  All in all, I consider Barbaro and the family to be the best.  That is why I am on this blog LOL!  If I cared more about the racing part of this stuff, I would go to other blogs.  I don't usually.  I stick around here.  :)  

Love you Fans of Barbaro.  

Oh yeah I know Big Reds heart was 20 pounds.  I thought it was 21.  That is just amazing and they burried him whole.  They normally don't do that with race horses.  Loved that horse.  Still love that horse.  He was a champ in every way!  

Concerned Fan

You really bring nothing to the table.  

Great job Nicanor, very proud of the effort you displayed.

Horsenut23,if you notice the personal attacks are started by those who don't like someone's else's opinionthat differs from theirs!As the moderator has stated previously all opinions and comments are welcome subject to her review before bloging.I can tell you I was attacked personally becuase what I said wasn't accepted by the supposed open minded people. Each blog will always have a opposing or different view.You can choose to read it or pass by, that's your choice, some prefer to attack the bloger under the flag this is a site for Nicanor -LOB exclusively and if you say soemthing they don't like get off the blog.You have been in Mgt most of your career and am sure you had people who you didn't agree with but heard them out.The fact is his first race was a dud he lost but the second race was very impressive now that's a opinion.That's what makes this site such a success.Personal attacks are human nature as is a rebuttal and all have a right to be heard.So when you  go back and read the blogs you'll see I am right the attacks start with those who only want to read what they agree with.It's all words and you know there are much more important things in life then getting upset if you don't agree with someone on this blog. I don't know if this blog will be printed , that is up to moderator  so think about what is being said.Is this intelligent enough for you Mary?

Let me just say this. Even if the Jacksons, Matz and Prado were not Barbaro/Nicanor connections, they would be special people. First of all, the Jacksons put an awful lot of time and money where their mouths are in the fight against the dreadful laminitis that not only took our beloved Barbaro, and one of my great equine loves, Secretariat, but has also taken the lives of the beloved pets of thousands of people. ("Rich" horses are not the only ones dying everyday of this disease.)  Michael Matz, as humble as he is, not only trained a Kentucky Derby Winner (a great accomplishment by itself), but was an olympic medal winner AND survived a horrific plane crash in Salt Lake City and in the process saved two small children from a burning plane. Edgar, one of many children born to impoverished parents, was born and raised in a dirt floor shack in the slums of Peru and now he's in the hall of fame and his likeness will be sitting on top of Barbaro in front of Churchill Downs forever. So yeah there is much to admire about Barbaro's connections which has nothing to do with horses so stop the sarcasm.  It's unbecoming and inappropriate to say the least.  

This article is a great read. Go to "www.sport-horse-breeder.com/large-heart.html"

I don't know why Lezcano felt the need to make 22 second fractions on the lead, but I was happy to see how much run Nicanor had left in the stretch.  I stand by what I said after his last race that he was probably a little intimidated when he was in midpack since Lezcano said the same thing about this race when Carlos ran past, but I think that Nicanor is growing and learning... when intimidated he could have quit completely and let everyone else pass him, but he didn't... he shifted to the outside and ran back after Carlos... next time he might respond a little sooner and refuse to give up the lead.  It's good to see Nicanor growing up mentally!

Congrats Michael Matz (and Nicanor). After the first year Nic was foaled, I didn't see a Barbaro legend in him. But his little brother Lentenor? I see something you don't see often in that little spry colt. Barbaro. Nicanor I love you, I just dont want people to get there hopes up to high this year with him. He is a beauty, it's true. But sometimes you can't follow exact footsteps to recreate greatness. I also worry that his first start? May have cause a bit of "psychological" dmg to him. Maybe not too much physical, but down the road he may flash back on his first traumatic start. Like they say after a rider takes a spill, "get back up on that horse and make him take that fence no matter how many times he is going to balk/refuse". Sometimes in a show ring the judges only allow minimal tries. But Michael Matz? You are a miracle worker and you know what I am talking about. Let's all continue to love on Nicanor, but when he or IF he can't bring it home on the back stretch, give him praises and shouts people in the stands. Keep building his confidence. Horses with "heart" need reassurance just like people. Will Nicanor be on TVG or that horse racing channel? I am in Washington state, so far out away from the eastern circuit and with what I have in my barn, it is a 24/7 job at times. But we do have a cable tv in the tack room....I want to be able to watch whatever Nicanor has for us in the future. May your brother Barbaro's wings attach to your flanks when you get settled in the field and your position, then fly Nicanor, fly......

Mike Relva: your comment is mine, guess, I have had enough of this blog ..even though I have learned alot..

"Can't we all just get along?"  Let's agree to disagree.  Those of us who love  Nicanor, Barbaro, et al will continue to love them all and those of you who think we're all delusional, will continue to think we're delusional.  So what.  It is going to play out whatever way it is going to.  Nicanor will become whatever he is able to become, then there will be Lentenor, then he new "Babynor".  We can argue here til we are blue in the faces, but it won't change anything.  What is going to happen will inexorably happen as time moves along.  Now let's all just chill, PLEASE.

TO MARY: 07 Mar 2009 7:09 PM you posted this, "By the way, Nicanor has a lot of Nasrullah in him, intelligent, but headstrong. Nicanor is a lot like Bold Ruler."

There is zero relationship between the pedigree resulting from a Dynaformer-La Ville Rouge mating and Bold Ruler, nor is there "a lot of Nasrullah" in that cross. Bold Ruler does not appear in the pedigrees of either Dynaformer or La Ville Rouge. In Thoroughbred pedigree terms, Bold Ruler and Nicanor are not even distant cousins.

As for Nasrullah, he appears exactly once in Dynaformer's pedigree, in the 4th generation. Nasrullah sired Nashua, sire of Bramalea, dam of Roberto, sire of Dynaformer.

Nasrullah appears three times in La Ville Rouge's 5th generation (6th gen. of her foals). In Thoroughbred pedigree terminology, that makes her distantly inbred to Nasrullah 5x5x5. (Dynaformer is inbred 5x5 to Nearco, 5x5 to Blue Larkspur, and 5x5 to Hyperion.) One of the Nasrullah crosses in LVR's pedigree is via Nashua, who was the sire of Gold Digger, dam of Mr. Prospector, sire of Carson City, LVR's sire. Thus, the foals of Dynaformer-La Ville Rouge are inbred to Nashua 4x5. However, except for that one cross of Nashua, this mating is a complete outcross in the first five generations.

Nashua is just one of 16 ancestors in the 4th generation of a Dynaformer-La Ville Rouge mating. Nasrullah, himself, and three of his sons (Nashua, Red God and Fleet Nasrullah) are only four of 32 names in the 5th generation. Genetically, Nasrullah's influence is so small in the Barbaro/Nicanor pedigree as to be negligible.

If you want to better understand the Dynaformer-La Ville Rouge mating, a good beginning would be to start with Roberto, the English and Irish champion who won two-thirds of England's Triple Crown (Derby and Two Thousand Guineas), and who became a very important international sire. Or you might check out the fact that Carson City, from the brilliant Raise A Native sire line, was known as a speed sire. Or you might check out the stamina influences in Nicanor's pedigree, like Ribot and Round Table. Or you might take a look at La Ville Rouge's tail-female line. She was stakes places, and she is a half-sister to stakes winners Green Alligator and Lucky Lavender Gal.

Nice 2nd race, Nicanor!

Somebody bet me that Barbaro's and Nicanor's family didn't trace back to Man O'War or his family more than once or twice.  I took the bet, with the agreement that it would include Fair Play (MOW's sire) and Rock Sand (MOW's dam sire).  

I won.  By my count there are 6 direct lines to MOW, plus 4 more to Rock Sand, plus 4 more to Fair Play, PLUS (and I didn't know this), through La Ville Rouge, back 4 generations through Alabama Gal,  and back 4 more generations is My Play.  My Play was a fairly good racehorse in his own right, including the Jockey Club Gold Cup, but will always be remembered as (are you ready?) - Man O'War's baby brother!

How cool is that?

Me, again. Sorry.  Question: Why do horses bleed during a race?  How does Lasix help?  

Comment:  Secretariat was the perfect racehorse.  Beautiful beyond belief, fast, strong, and a ham -- he loved the camera.

Perhaps Nicanor's early career will be on dirt.  Bet his latter career is on turf.

Th th that's all folks.  Cheers.

Ida Lee -

I appreciate your fervent support of FOB and Barbaro's team, but the plane crash Matz was in took place in Sioux City, Iowa, not Salt Lake City.

MyMigraine (09 Mar 2009 10:05 AM)

Well said!  I'm sure you visited the cheersalex site and saw the cult in action.  One artist had them pretty well pegged. Google the 4 words:  michael vick  steven chandler (no quotes), read the story, and get a chuckle.  I'm an animal lover, but sometimes that bunch that thinks they have done so much, has actually done a lot to endanger horses, and also annoy customers at racetracks.

Tim

I like Custom For Carlos  and whoever put a 100 dollar exacta on him and Nicanor did well I would say.  I don't like KD for other reasons.  There are about 3 jockeys that I don't care for and he is one of them.  No big deal.

Greg J. Please tell me that you hit the exacta box Saturday.  Paid good.  The hell with the win.  The real handicapping is with the bigger wagers like the exactas, tris, supers, and 3,4,5,6 picks and so forth.  There you make thousands.  :)  IF ya hit LOL.

I really appreciate the information on Secretatiat.  Love that horse.  I like Seattle Slew better but Big Red is one of a kind and he has a huge part of my heart.  Boy what a incredible horse he was.  The fatal L. killed him.  THAT is why we need to keep on spending money for the cure for Dean Richardson.  We have to find one.  :)

Mike.  Head over to the wedding blog.  We are putting on a killer wedding over there and having a blast waiting for Babynor to show up.  It is really pleasent over there.  Real love on that blog.  Trolls are not invited to it at all.  :)

Stardust wrote:

"If Nicanor or Lentenor or any of MM's horses are not running, I don't watch racing!  LOL  I don't give a rats ass about it.  I care about the horses and the FOB's are cleaning up the mess that the rotten people have created."

"They care nothing about the animal.  Just the money."  

Stardust, how dare you!  You know absolutely NOTHING about what happens on the racetrack.

Occasionally racehorses are mistreated, but, I can assure you that the racetrack horses are treated a lot more humanely than most horses!  They have a wonderful life.  Most trainers and owners work to place their ex-racehorses in good situations.  It is not just about money.

As a breeder and owner, I take your insults personally!

Ida Lee

Right on!  

Horsenut 23,

Most horses don't develop any kind of a personal relationship with their jockeys that I can tell.  A jockey will usually breeze the horse weekly and ride him in the race.  Special horses might have the rider and the rider's agent hanging around the stall talking to the trainer (and making sure the trainer keeps the jockey on the horse, lol!), but it isn't usually a big personal relationship.

The groom tacks the horse up (puts on the saddle and bridle), brings him out and someone throws the jockey up and off they go to the track.  When the rider brings the horse back, s/he jumps off and someone takes the horse to cool it out.  It is not much different in a race.  That is the sort of normal interaction a jockey has with a horse he rides in races.

That is not to say that the jockeys don't truly love their horses.  Just watch Mike Smith talk about Zenyatta on the show Jockeys, and you'll know what I mean.  But, does Zenyatta really care about Mike Smith?  Probably not, but that is not to say that Mike Smith and Zenyatta don't have an incredible trusting relationship from the time he is thrown up until he jumps off.

I, too, hope they show Jockeys portray more of the relationship that develops between horses and their regular riders.

Marigold

I would love nothing more.  There are a lot of posts on here that I find informative.  I liked learning about Secretariat.  The people that are putting down the Barbaro family are only over here to do just that.  This is "Tracking Barbaros Brothers", not "Bashing Barbaros Brothers".  

They really need to go to a blog where their imput does make a difference.  I myself don't really read most of those posts.  I see the name, see a few daggers and I just scroll on by.  It is a waist os my time.  I don't think that people that don't like Nicanor will ever try to get along on this blog.  After all, they don't like the horse that this blog is about.  

TO: THE PHANTOM:

I don't claim to be a handicapper,I'll leave that up to you. lol No,my towel isn't "soaked" cause I didn't have a bet. I've only bet on one race in my life. I guess you never miss on being right! People like you always find a reason to slam a horse. I call it being a whiner!

Thanks Amanda and sorry.  I don't like coming here to see people put me down as I am sure the same holds true for everyone else.  

TO 2 TIME VALLEY PLAYER OF THE YR

Funny for you to speak of everyone having a right to an opinion,lol. Last mo. you couldn't wrap your brain around someone that had a contrasting opinion from yours. You enjoy to start arguments for attention. One thing should be noted,I NEVER stated I'm a trainer,only that I own three horses that race minor stakes in FL. Show me one time I ever said I'm a trainer. I will bet you a $1000 to your $1 on that,ok? If you scroll way down on last months' blog: Nicanor,Doing Fine you will find my response from your attack on me last month. Regarding your remarks that "I need to put flowers on my horses",tell you what maybe you would loan me yours! lol

Bleeding, or EIPH (Exercise Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage) happens in probably 50% of racehorses.

Here is a pretty basic article on it:  www.horsequest.com/.../case1.htm  Just Google it and you can get a lot of information.

The lungs of a horse are very good at their job of exchanging oxygen and carbon dioxide.  They are so efficient because they are very thin and delicate.  When a horse exerts itself at racing speed, sometimes the lungs hemorrhage.  Sometimes the hemorrhage is a lot, most times it is only a small amount.

Lasix is a drug that is used to try to prevent bleeding.  The theory is that it reduces the blood vessel pressure in the lungs.  It is known that horses do better on Lasix.  There is a lot of debate on this.

To check for bleeding, a vet will pass an endoscope (the size of a garden hose!!!) down the horse's nose and windpipe to the where the bronchial tubes split off from the windpipe.  The vet will look for the presence of blood.  A horse must have been a proven bleeder before he can get on the Lasix program, which where I race is controlled by the racing commission.

There is a thought that reduced air quality is a contributor to bleeding.

Here is an interesting bit of worthless information (that I found fascinating when I read it)--when horses are galloping (and I don't know at how fast they need to be going for this to happen), they don't actually breath the way they do when they are standing in a stall.  With each stride, the horse's gut swings forward and back compressing and expanding the lungs.

Ragsy.  

I so hear ya.  I will continue to come here because I love the FOB family and always will.  These negative comments about these beautiful horses are really bad.  I hope that you're OK.  I know that you don't deserve to be bashed at all.  You have  been nothing but kind with these horses and this family.  That is really all that matters.  :)

The tradegy of Barbaro has now led to some hope. Well done NIC and of course the Jacksons.

I am rooting for you all the way Nic and i hope that one day you will be like your beaut big bro Barbaro.

I have a perfect solution.  If you see a post that you know is going to be an attack then just scroll by it.  Don't read it.  It is that simple.  Nothing can be gained by reading things that upset or hurt other  people.  Yeah there are different points of views.  

Amanda is right.  Things are getting too strange over here.  I am not inncocent either.  I will from now on refrain from responding to such posts as I probably won't read them.  I am here because of Nicanor, and the brothers of Barbaro and the connections.  Nothing more, nothing less.  :)

Mike Relva

Head over to LVR's blog.  Some of these people really hurt Ragsy.  She didn't do anything to deserve it.  She has been nothing but kind and caring.  Why are people so mean?  Anyway we are finishing up the wedding for LVR and Dynaformer.  You may get a chuckle out of it. I know that some people love to laugh and it is pretty funny.  :)

I agree with you Amanda

I never said that Nicanor had Bold Ruler in his pedigree.  I simply said that Bold Ruler's sire Nasrullah is prevelant particularly in the bottom of Nicanor's pedigree.  I also said that Nicanor reminds me of Bold Ruler.  I know all about the Native Dancer line.  It has been written that there may be soundness issues with that line.   I know all about Princequillo, sire of Roberto.  In my opinion, Princequillo was one of the greatest sires of the 20th century. I know Nicanor's pedigree.  Thank you for your post.  It was very informative.  

First Off, Kudos to Mike Relva(I agree 100 percent!), Kitei, Dona, Marigold, Well said !

CurlinxTwo, I completely understand that it is hard to compare splits from one race to another, one track to another, I just thought it was interesting, nothing more, nothing less...thx.

JAJ, Great info on Tongue & Whip(I stand corrected, I didn't see the whip at first, My angle was bad, but saw the replay and Jose did use it down the stretch, He used it wisely!)

LavasLegend, Well said also, thx...

"Patience is a Virtue", I Hope everybody remembers that when Nicanor comes to mind.  Nicanor has the all the Tools to Be Great and Hopefully will have a very successfull, Safe Life. He NEEDS races under his belt, Confidence, in my opinion, Is the most important attribute a TB can and will have! Mr. Matz has been this patient with Nic, He isn't going to change now.  In my opinion, I believe the next race will be during the first week of April, Probably a mile, but longer then 7F, On dirt(Turf will be down the road for him, I think it is too much for him to switch to turf right now).  Nicanor needs to build his Confidence, then the sky's the limit for him.  This last race was incredible in all aspects, He just got beat by a better horse on that day(Kudos to Custom for Carlos and Kent D.). Also, Whatever Jockey Mr. Matz goes with on Nicanor, I am 100 percent confident in whoever he puts on Nicanor, End of Debate.

Stardust, I actually hit for $682.00 on Sat.(It was a great day all around!)

One more thing, I wish everyone would take a step back and realize there are YOUNG people on this Blog and should realize that, that's all...

Here is a GREAT Story, Everyone should read it:

cs.bloodhorse.com/.../Miracle-at-Machmer-Hall.aspx

I read that friday, at gulfstream Sat. there was a horse named "It's a Miracle" in race three, I bet him, and wouldn't you know it , He won!

  Also, To all you Big Red Fans(I have posted this before), this is my Favorite Video of him, Hands down:

www.youtube.com/watch

Enjoy...

Also, STOP racing "Storm in May", Enough is enough!!!!!, He has had enough, How will you feel if gets hurt?, Which will happen if you continue to race him, The Money cannot be worth it.....He doesn't want to be there!

If memory serves me right, I believe 'rating' refers not only to the jockey's ability to get his mount to relax during a race but also to the often uncanny automatic 'stopwatch' that some riders seem to have ticking away somewhere in their heads.

By that I mean the very best jocks can be instructed to have their mounts run fractions, let's say, of .22, .23, .23, etc. Not only will the jocks get the horses to produce such times(if the horses are capable of doing so), the times themselves will be absolutely on the money.

As an aside, I can't believe that ANYONE would look askance at a group of people who have so much love in their hearts for a great horse like Barbaro and anything at all that has to do with Barbaro.

It is not a 'cult;' it is more properly a fan club.

As an analogy -- Elvis was popular with the masses.  He had -- and still has -- fan clubs.  The fan clubs loved Elvis, flaws and all.  They still do -- knowing full well that Elvis, like everyone who posts here, was human. . . yet loving him anyway.

Barbaro WAS a great horse.  He won every one of his races that he was able to finish.  That is something that NO ONE will ever be able to take from him, even the grinches who frequent this forum.

Who knows?  Barbaro might have been the Great Equine Saviour of Racing.  

We will never know, but in the meantime please don't rain on the parades of those who remember Barbaro for the gallant champion that he was, and who hope and, yes, pray that one of his kin will go on to fulfill all the promise that was displayed so brilliantly in this remarkable steed.

I just finished talking to Barbaro, and he said that everyone should stop comparing his brothers to him.  Barbaro doesn't think that you guys get it.  It is hard enough for brothers to compete with an older brother without total strangers watching to see if they compare.  Barbaro said that he wishes his fans were smarter.

JAJ, thank you for the information.  So, that's what they meant when they said they "scoped" Nicanor after the race. Makes you wonder WHY a horse would want to race with all the invasive things that go along with it? (Tongue tying, scoping, etc.)

In addition to the 2:10P.M. comment by JAJ, I want to further clarify for Marigold reasons for using Lasix (or Salix) in pulmonary bleeding. Lasix is a trade name for the powerful diuretic drug "furosemide". It lowers blood pressure and pulls excess fluids from the body by inhibiting the reabsorption of sodium and chloride by the kidneys. If irritation in the lungs is decreased by reducing pressures and fluid, then bleeding is less likely to occur.

Mikie R you started the personal attacks not me, i only rebutted go back and read the blogs,]i didn't even know you existed, oringinally because you didn't like the fact that I said the horse quit.

So now your attacking The phantom ,because you didn't like what he said, well the moderator set you straight everyone has a right to blog keep it to horses not personal and you'll have to live with it.

Greg J:

Oh man, I told you to place a bet for me too! You could have doubled your payout! :-) Geez Louise, pay attention next time ! LOL

Sounds like you had an extordinary experience down there!

Mike Relva:

How are your horses doing, even the one on R & R ?

Greg J.  

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee that is my kind of wager.  Was it an exacta or trifecta?  I would have boxed those two myself had I done a bet.  Probably would have put 100 on them.  I had this gut feel that C4C was gonna win it.  I did have a good feeling about Nicanor too.  Wish I would have done it now LOL.  

Congrats to you on your wins......

Thanks for the vid too.  Love that horse.  :)

KathyE

Well said.  I agree 100%.  :)  

FYI, If anyone wants to know about"Spenditallbaby(Baby)", She is out of the hospital, Home at Santa Anita!, Not out of the woods yet, but encouraging news, Way to go Baby!, I am pulling for you!

2 time

Please let all of this go.  Amanda probably doesn't want to read this anymore.  Let's all give her a break OK?  :)

Greg, that is a great video of a great horse.  He was truly magical.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.  Enjoy your posts especially your description of your time at Gulfstream.

For those of you who have an insatiable need to be right, what on earth will you do when you are proven to be wrong??  Will you be big enough to admit that you are wrong?  That is going to be interesting to see.

I won on Exacta with Stardom bound(Whew, She barely won that one), "I want Revenge" in Gotham, Had Nicanor, Custom for Carlos, Discreet Street in Trifecta!!!!!!

Well I have had a lot of horses and never had to use Lasix on any of them.  I don't know that much about the bleeding but it sounds negative to me.  I guess there may be a reason but IMO I feel that if a horse isn't completely natural, something is wrong.  :(

Good education on the Lasix though.  Thanks.  

Also, Posted this before, Just wish EVERYONE would read it regarding "LVR's Wedding":

    OMG, People, Does anyone here have an Imagination ?, Why would anyone take this wedding thing serious, it is for FUN !, It is a diversion !, Imagination can be expressed through stories such as fairy tales or fantasies, It is fun, DO NOT TAKE IT LITERALLY!, My god.........Stardust, I think it is wonderfull that WE can have such a great Imagination, only close minded people would take it serious.....PLEASE!, as Einstein(Not the Horse!) said......"Imagination…is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.", So can everyone take it in context, Thank You....

Marigold,

Yes, "scoping" does sound pretty dreadful doesn't it, but surprisingly it isn't.

They put a twitch on the horse (which doesn't bother the horse at all), and then just put it down his nose.  Horses don't seem the slightest bothered, even the yearlings at the sales.  (They scope yearlings to look at how their throats are conformed--some vets think that certain throat conformation/defects have a negative impact on racing potential.

Same thing with the tongue tie--the horses just stands there while it is done so it can't be too annoying to them or they would object.

Believe me, a racehorse is never treated better at any other time in his life than the years he spends at the track.  He gets the best food, a clean stall, lots of attention and the best of medical care.  A riding horse, no matter how well loved or cared for, doesn't get nearly the attention that a racehorse does.

OK people it is time to stop all the pettiness that has been going on here.  I said that everyone had the right to their opinion and we do but to sit back and slam each other has to stop.  So you don't like someones remarks, fine then just ignore it. I thought that this blog was to be about Nick, Lentanor and family.  We still won't know for awhile what Nick can do or not do and believe me he is still very green but progress is what we are looking for.  To say the least Big Red and any other horse to talk about is welcome.  Please start acting like grownups and not 16 year olds.  Much of the information here is informative and that is the way it should be for all of us to learn more than what we already know or think we know.  Celebrate the horse, find good in all of them and yes not just this family we care about.

Greg J

WOW the tri on Nicanors race.  Right ON!!!!!  I would have boxed the two but I don't think I would have put DC in there.  Good Job!  I know Stardum won.  Didn't see the race but had the wager up and saw that she hit.  

TO: GREG

Thanks for the kind words,nice to know there are some good people out there!

According to Pincay Jr, Secretariat broke Sham's

heart, but possibly it was Pincay's heart that was broken by Big Red!  Friesan Fire, one of Larry Jones' derby horses this year, is inbred (3x4) to Secretariat and Jones says the colt was the best 2-yr old he's trained.  About Nicanor's race: the horse that won, Custom for Carlos, did miss out on winning his debut race (his previous race) by just a nose, so he's no slouch.  Although, CFC was described as being "all out" to win, whereas I don't believe Nic was.  Also, I'm hoping that Dubinsky, whom some had high hopes for, will break his maiden soon, otherwise he might end up with his racing heart broken.

JAJ

OK I respectfully dissagree with your statement about horses.  I know people that have herds of horses that take wonderful care of them.  Arabians, and pleasure horses for the most part are usually taken better care of ALL of their life.  Some owners and trainers take wonderful care of their horses and breeders.  I beg to differ with you on the other.  

I have seen some beautiful well loved horses that are not race horses and they have heated barns with rubber on the floor and this and that.  They are treated very very well.  :)

Stardust, fine with me but I reserve the right to rebuttal if attacked again.Does anyone have any idea when he will run again?

TO: HORSENUT23

Sorry I didn't get to you already. Guess you know why,same old story again,you know. Thanks for asking my horses are all ok,the one w/ hairline fracture is doing well,but I'm giving him extra time as a precaution. Thanks again,nice to see some class on this blog!

HI STARDUST:

How are you? Same old problem,lol.

Hope everything is ok w/you since it's been awhile since we've talked.

lobieb

True :)

marigold;

Humans "bleed" when overexerting themselves during long distance running such as 10 milers, half marathon and marathons. Many will bleed in the eyes (bloodshot, NOT dripping blood) and from their nipples and in their genital areas.

I believe the use of lasix is comparable to our high blood pressure medicines. I don't think it is used when they aren't racing? JAJ, can you confirm/deny that?

Marigold

I will be the first to admit that I am wrong a lot of the time.  I am not perfect and sometimes I lash out without thinking.  Something for future thought.  I do however stand strong on my faith in the FOB's and Barbaro and his brothers and connections.  Have been down this road for years and I intend to stay here.  :)  

To: LDP

Where have you been? Missed you!

who won the riding title @ monmouthpark last year????

JOSE LEZCANO

Keep him on Nicanor.

Edgar is over hyped!

Stardust wrote:

"Well I have had a lot of horses and never had to use Lasix on any of them.  I don't know that much about the bleeding but it sounds negative to me.  I guess there may be a reason but IMO I feel that if a horse isn't completely natural, something is wrong."

Stardust, earlier you said that you had owned a few racehorses and were intimately involved with the backstretch.

If you know nothing about Lasix, I cannot believe you have been involved with racehorses or the backstretch.

Maybe your racehorses are retired.  I don't consider exracehorses to be racehorses anymore, but Off Track Thoroughbreds.

A horse is only going to get Lasix the day he races and possibly the day he breezes, which is a timed work at racing speed.  My own horses get Lasix for their weekly breezes, not just for a race.  They don't need it for their daily training.  Almost 100% of North American racing Thoroughbreds are on Lasix.

Once a horse is finished racing, he will never be going fast enough to cause bleeding although the article I sent the link to did say that bleeding was showing up in the cross country phase of 3-day eventing.

Bleeding can ruin a horse's racing career.  The great Silver Charm bled badly.  A horse needs to be backed right off training after a bleeding episode so that there isn't further damage done to the lungs.  In the end, I think a lot of horses do suffer permanent damage to the lungs from regular bleeding.  That sort of lung damage won't affect their quality of life or their success in another career.  It only impacts them in a racing situation.

Lasix is not allowed in all racing jurisdictions worldwide.  When the big European horses ship in to North America, the trainers put them on Lasix.

I am on the fence about Lasix.  I don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other as to whether it should be banned or not.

Mike Relva:

Thanks! :)

Mike Relva

Yeah same old thing.  Have you been over to LVR's blog?  

How are your horses?  I know that they are well taken care of cause I know that you are good with them.  I admire your method of not putting them on the track with any type of anything that could cause harm.  

Come on over to LVR's blog and help out with the wedding.  We need some more horses on the list.  :)  AND the wedding is only a diversion.  People chased Ragsy out of there and she is probably in tears.  I wish that people would not be so mean to her.  She is a wonderful person and a blessing to these blogs.  :(  I am sad that she is in this state.  All because of a bunch of people that had to bash her.  So sad.  Life is too short for this guys.  

JAJ  I have rescued race horses from the track and taken them home to have a good life.  They never raced after we got them.  I should probably clear that up.  Sorry about the confusion.  I am the one that takes these horses and finds homes for them when they aren't wanted anymore.  Or at least I do my best.  :)

I know a lot about racing but I really don't like it.  I prefer just having horses.  I do however love Barbaro and the Family.  That is why I am here.  :)

Question for Mike Relva:

Did I read that one of your horses broke down?  Hope it is going to be okay.

Did you give the blog the names of your horses?

Horsenut23:

Lasix is the same drug that humans use as a diuretic.  In horses, the manufacturer has changed the name to Salix for animals, but Lasix seems to have stuck.

My husband, a marathoner, has told me that he can sometimes taste blood after a strenuous race.  I suspect humans also bleed in their lungs.  Don't confuse bleeding in  the lungs from bleeding from abrasions.  Completely different.

Mike and everyone that wants to be nice.  I am posting this here so that IF some of you decide to be pleasent, you can take part in this wedding. :)  This is over at LVR's blog.  We can maybe make a clean break here and ALL try to get along.  OK?  Time will tell.  :)

UP-DATE ON THE WEDDING. Feel free to add your horses and I will run it by Rags2Riches.  

Ragsy,Horsenut, Greg J and FOB's.  It is decided that CURLIN WILL perform the cerimony.  Dynaformer is getting his way.  He will not have it any other way. :)  Rags did the best she could and although Pulpit can be the best man it is under the condition that he tells Dynaformer that he is very sorry for his actions.  :)

LVR and Dynaformers wedding so far.

1. Place of event: CHURCHILL DOWNS 12:00 NOON! Date: Memorial Day 2009.

2.  Bride and Groom:  DYNAFORMER  and LVR.  

3.  Colors for the LVR and DYNAFORMER: Blue with Green and White Trim.  

4.  Music “Old Kentucky Home” for the ceremony and then for the reception we can have a band of horses play Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy and other songs.  

5.  Performing the rituals: - CURLIN.  PULPIT --  best man (Brother Curlin will have his very own barrel of fruit)

6. Ring Bearer and carrying the carrots and apples:  LENNTENOR & GIVEN US HOPE.

7.  GIVEN US HOPE:  Maid of Honor

8. Flower baby:  BABYNOR with GIVEN US HOPES foal joining him.  

9. GREEN - WHITE - BLUE Flowers

STARDUM BOUND:  Will be escorted to the wedding by BIG BROWN

10.  SMARTY JONES signing everyone in.  

11. Wedding Cake: CARROTT CAKE

12.  NICANOR and LENTENOR will do the rings (halters).  Rings: Leather halters with GOLD nameplates with the date of marriage and their names entwined in a heart.

13.  FOB kids: Charge of the foals! When they have the foals under control then they can watch movies about mares and foals, bonding, caretaking, club/4H stuff.

14. Sister RAGS TO RICHES to take care of the invitations and keep CURLIN and everyone in line. :)

15.  SANDIEH:  Photographer

16.  There will be foxhounds there that can pass the rings to/from the horses so no fingers will be lost!

17.  DaHoss and Alyshebia(sp) joining the Budwiser Clyde’s in the festive games and fun, since they are older they will be BOUNCERS reporting directly to Rags2Riches.

18.  We can throw oats instead of rice and LVR will KICK the bouquet not throw it.

19.  PANTY RAID will take off the garter!

20.  WAIT A WHILE  will be in charge of putting all of this in an organized fashion.  

21.  Clean up: TROLLS and that is all they get to do. ;-) No touching the horses. No taking pictures of the horses. In fact, the horses WILL NOT BE PRESENT when the stalls are being cleaned. The Clyds' have to block off the escape routes because we don't want those trolls anywhere near anyone or any of our wonderful family.

List of Horses invited so far.  

Sky Mesa

Bedazzled

Hasili

Better Then Honor

Street Cry

Smart strike

Giants Causeway

Wait A While

Street Sense

AP Indy

Zenyatta

Dreaming Of Anna

I Want Revenge

Messaging

Panty Raid

Hysterical Lady

Evita Argentia

Proud Spell,

Ventura,

Laragh,

Precious Kitten,

Peppers Pride

Street Cry

Tiznow

Chelokee

Greg J. beautiful video of Secretariat.  I have watched it many times and his races on you tube also.  I wonder if there will ever be another horse like him.  He had it all.  

Furosemide (Lasix) is commonly used in many species--humans, dogs, cats, horses, etc. One of its ACTIONS is to lower blood pressure through the MECHANISM of inhibiting sodium reabsorption by the kidney. It would not be used in horses if they were not racing unless perhaps they were in congestive heart failure or had a similar diagnosis. I do not advocate its use--I have attempted to answer an above question from a clinical perspective. I have been a "clinician" for over thirty years. I just want to give factual information to those who request explanations.

Just a Heads Up, If you want to see this years Kentucky Derby Winner, Friesan Fire, He is entered in Louisiana Derby (gr. II) at Fair Grounds this Saturday. Trained by Larry Jones(Eight Belles). He breezed a bullet five furlongs in :58.20 Monday morning at Fair Grounds. He also has Old Fashioned, but something about FF reminds me of Big Brown, He is a FREAK, Just watch...“The horse is just getting very, very good right now,” said Jones. “He did it without being asked.”

Amanda, Two Things, Wanted to know if any word on how Nicanor came out of race?, Hopefully no problems!, And still nothing on Rockland ?, Still haven't seen a work-out since his race on Jan.31. Thanks Amanda for all you do....

JAJ:

thanks for clearing up my confusion

with bleeding, it was what some runners told me.Obviously, THEY didn't know what they were talking about either! LOL

I had a boxer that died last August from congentital heart problems, and lasix was one of the 4 meds he was on, and the cheapest. It cost my $3009(TOTAL) a month for each of the 4 months he was on it before passing, good thing I had a job at the time! :)

Hi all we all knew nic was going to finish good.Any news on the new one?........go!!!!!! nic

Hi all we all knew nic was going to finish good.Any news on the new one?........go!!!!!! nic

Karen in Texas  Thank You.  

Mary  No there will never be another Secretariat as there will never be another Barbaro.  All of these legendary horses are one of a kind.  

Greg.  I would like to see Larry win the KD this year.  He really needs the lift and he is a wonderful trainer in my eyes.  I hope he gets it.  I have my eyes on Stardom Bound but we shall see.  Larry rocks.  He so loved Eight Belles.  That was more than obvious.   :)

Stardust,

What a beautiful wedding!!  Barbaro is looking down and smiling. This is truely the wedding of the century!!  Are the bride and groom registered anywhere for a wedding gift??

At least this number of posts don't have him winning the Derby anymore. I wish him well and he will get a shot in the breeding shed because of his brother.

It would be nice if those posting (those who constantly show their lack of knowledge about the game) knew more.

As to treatment-TB are treated better than almost any animal save cats and dogs---drop it! Worry about humans first then come and talk about animals--there are many relief organizations to lend your time and efforts. Go to a old folks home and spread some joy by talking to lonely forgotten people in the US if you have a few hours. Horses in the end are only animals-not that I wish any to be treated badly.

As for jockeys--please! Jose is probably the one of the best up-and-coming riders in the country. He rode the horse to win------if he was good enough he would have. Riders are 5% if that high of the deal. There are 100's of jockeys that are so close in talent out there now a days some just have better agents. Let me see--if Ron Anderson was Mike Luzzi's agent  (it could be 40 others)---do you really he wouldn't have a Derby horse? Why is it Colin Wick in Canada had 4 riders that were number one consecutively. Oh---who was that Bailey guy and Gomez was a good competent rider before someone got his book and he became the go-to rider after Bailey retired?

Those who know-don't think riders make the horse-it is the other way around!

JAJ ~ Thanks for the Lasix & bleeding review.  I know a bit about racing as I'm on a board & go backside often.  I'm always asking the trainers why they do what they do.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!

Mike Revla ~ hope you horse heals well & quickly.  My rescued one healed nicely & is learning english riding by his new owner.  He had a hairline slab fracture.

I thought Nicnor did much better this race.  He must have learned much from his first.  I look forward to his next race & hope the same jockey is aboard him.  He seems to have smarts & if I'm correct will do better next time.

Amanda ~ Is it possible that a blog could be started on racing terms (referanceing to the bleeding)?  I'm thinking that for those wanting to know more from those who know would be a spot to do this.  I've owned horses for over 30 years & still know that there is much more to learn!

this entire thread, and blog, is a complete embarrassment for one of the greatest all-time publications, THE BLOOD HORSE!!!

it is too bad that the good and bad are giving this site a black-eye, no other forum on here is like this!  not even the current triple crown posts, where there is a lot of money involved, and opinions, funny how the Horse Racing world can keept themselves from the road of this sorry excuse for a horse blog!  

the only good thing is that this blog will no longer be active once Nicanor is retired in a few more races, or better yet when The Blood Horse smartens up on the publicity front.  

100 posts down and we are now completely off topic, and talking nonsense about horse marriages, some other b.s. sites, and god knows what.  this is a complete embarrassment to horse racing in my opinion.  fortunately, it is very clear to see a true fan, an obsessive fanatic, those who actually know about horse racing, and those who are stirring the pot at the expensse of some blinded fans.

The Blood Horse needs to move on, there are plenty of sites, and blogs on this horse, enough not to ruin what is in my opinion the best free horse racing coverage on the net, The Blood Horse.

this is a disgrace, period!!!  and all of you, well almost all of you, are at fault.

Greg, I live in Baton Rouge, and my daughter lives in New Orleans, so I'll be at the Louisiana Derby on Saturday.  Please don't compare him to Big Brown.  Big Brown is a lovely horse, but the inbreeding is quite shocking to me.  I'm learning an awful lot from this blog.  Thank all of you so much.  

Greg J. have you looked at Friesan Fire's pedigree, beautiful.  This guy may have that large Princequillo heart that I have talked about so many times.  His pedigree is nothing like Big Brown's pedigree or Eight Belles.  

Hey Stardust...the wedding sounds great. How about Barbaro being the Arc Angel watching from above along with his pal Secretariat?  Could you please tell me the web site to go to for this beautiful wedding. I really like this idea...

Oh Stardust, it was better to leave it over there on the other blog.  This is inviting a back lash from all the "you know who's" and they WILL bite,  trust me! They just can't help themselves.  I already offered an olive branch and it was ignored.

Karen, I am on Furosemide for HBP.  I can't tolerate it.  It worries me that they give it to horses.  Nicanor ran on it in race #1.

TO MARY AND GREG J. -- re Secretariat, thanks for the video link. I do not expect to see another like Red in my lifetime. I lived in Queens, NY, in the early 1970's, and saw Red run as a 2-yr-old and 3-yr-old. My love for that horse is as fresh and strong today as it was when I first saw him in 1972. I've been very fond of many racehorses through the years, and have probably seen thousands run, either live or on TV. In all that time, no horse has even come close to Secretariat. Not for me, anyway. It's the reason I totally understand the folks who love Barbaro and his brothers.

Wow. Way to go nicanor. Will he have another race soon? Are you thinking about maybe possibly the kentucky derby?? I hope so.. Him and nicanor will go far. I know it. I just do!!!!

TO: JAJ

Thanks for asking. One suffered a hairline fracture in a workout. My suggestion was to give extra time off to ensure no complications. Things are going well,thank you.

TO GREG J. -- Based on the early prep races run so far, Friesan Fire is the colt who's impressed me the most. The Louisiana Derby is not considered one of the best routes to the Kentucky Derby, although as early as 1923, Black Gold won the Louisiana and Kentucky derbies. More recently, Grindstone and Risen Star came out of the Louisiana Derby. So I'll be looking for an impressive race from Friesan Fire in LA. He's certainly bred to love racing at a distance.

Hey Mike,

    I've been at track practice, riding my horses, doing school, and working, so in other words very busy. I also am trying to stay as neutral as i can on some of the other blogs, by the way sorry Hayensfield didn't work for you. IWR did put in one heck of a performance though. I tell you what this neutral thing aint working, lol. I see some of the comments on other blogs and just want join in the fun, or so to speak. So whats up with you?

Yawn,  Please explain how the FOB's efforts to rescue horses and contribute to laminitis research have "endangered" horses??

JAJ

It's about time someone mentioned Animal Planets Reality show "Jockeys". Fantastic series I'm looking forward to the finale and seeing Curlin run in the Breeders cup again. Joe Talamo, that kid is amazing. And Chantal, she's a spunky little thing.

A couple of times I have mentioned using a "twitch" on a horse.  I get the feeling some on the blog are not around horses very much, and might be unfamiliar with its use.  I know it sounds barbaric, but it absolutely isn't when used properly.  I guess, like anything, you could make it abusive.

A twitch is used to keep a horse still when procedures are being performed on it.  Scoping is a perfect example of when a twitch is used.  It is a loop of either chain or rope at the end of a pole.  Even a sweat scarper can be used.  The top lip is put through the loop which is twisted tight.  The horse almost immediately becomes very still and goes into a trance-like state.  They often will wiggle and play with their top lip.  There is absolutely no stress for the horse.

It used to be thought that a twitch simply distracted the horse, but there is a study out there somewhere that measured endorphins during times a horse has a twitch on.  Endorphins are a naturally occurring opiate substance.  The study authors found endorphin levels increased dramatically when a twitch was applied.  Everyone has heard of "runner's high?"  That is a real intoxicating event caused by the release of natural release of endorphins.

The study also found that there was a point when the twitch lost its effectiveness (after about 20 minutes I think) and the horse became agitated.

I work nights 8:30pm until 6:00am. When I get home I like to unwind by coming to this site "Tracking Barbaro's Brothers". A friend of mine once said "If we all thought alike and did the same things it would be a pretty boring existence". I try to read every post every opinion. I smile if I agree and shake my head if I don't. What really bothers me the most is when someone makes a statement that differs from another's opinion they're blasted for it. They're told "no one cares what you think or go to another site". Well I care what they think whether I agree or not. There are very knowledgeable horse people on this blog and I would like to get to there posts. I think we can all do without all of the NASTY comments and personal attacks.

Thank you

For Big Red, there really has not been another horse like Secretariat.  I remember watching Secretariat run in the Belmont; I will never forget it.  My mother and I just looked at each other in shock after the race and then my mother started to cry; it was just an overwhelming experience.

I sure wish another Secretariat would come along.

I'm going to the La. Derby on Saturday to watch Friesan Fire.  He sure has a nice pedigree.

One more thing, Nicanor will win his next race.

JAJ, thank you for the post.  Very interesting and informative.  

Bad Publicity and Total Embarrassment,

I couldn't DISAGREE with you more!  Well, except for the "wedding" bit  That has me shaking my head, lol!

I don't think this blog will disappear when Nicanor retires.  There are a lot of foals of the same breeding to follow and Barbaro has quite the loyal following.  I think that's great for racing, that solid fan base.

I think the racing industry has done a very poor job of attracting new horse racing fans.  If this blog helps create a few fans, it is a good thing.

I'm in the industry as an owner and a breeder, albeit on a very small scale, and have been for over a decade.  I feel obligated to be helpful to new racing fans.  The industry needs to rekindle that connection between horses and their fans.  If we don't have new fans, my beloved sport will die.

The industry is fueled by gambling.  We need to encourage those who know little to come out and share our sport.  Maybe they will become bettors, which is a lot of fun and doesn't need to be expensive.  Bottom line, for our industry to survive, we need more fans which translates to more bettors.

Please don't dismiss these new fans.

Mike, All the best to your Horse healing safe & sound....Wish Him Well !, JAJ, Very Imformative, Thx, Also Agree 100 percent with you on your last post about this blog !, Horse Racing NEEDS the interest, and you show me ANY site or blog that could have 360 posts in two days !, The Fans here are great, some new, some experienced horse people, but very informative both ways.

Mary, I Wasn't comparing Big Brown and Freisan Fire's Pedigrees, Just that Freisan Fire reminds me of Big Brown(Being a Freak, In a good way), Running Style, Confidence in Freisan Fire is growing, and that to me is what makes him so scary !, Have a GREAT time watching him by 10 lengths, lol.....

360 posts of which 180 are from ONE PERSON, and 70% of which are from THREE PEOPLE.

Anonymous, SMILE !, That's All, lol....

FYI, Beyer Number for Nicanor's Race a 97 !, Not too shabby for his 2nd Race(First complete One in my eyes). Barbaro's 2nd race on turf was a 102. Big brother got Nicanor on this one, lol...(The Pamplemousse's 2nd race was a 90, Stardom Bound 2nd race was 88,  Want Revenge 2nd race a 72)

Lou and Chris

Wedding is over at LVR's blog.  Just hit "Tracking Barbaros Brothers" and scroll down you will see it.  I can't put the link on here like Amanda can.  

cs.bloodhorse.com/.../fyi-on-la-ville-rouge.aspx

Marigold your right.  Too many people just don't want to have a sense of humor.  I am not that way.  I love to be happy.  

anonymous

Why do you care what other people do?  Bloodhorse has a lot of blogs.  Tracking Barbaro's Brothers will be going on for a very long time.  We all (or most of us) love Barbaro.  Chill out.  If you don't like the blog, go somewhere else.  It is that simple.  :)

Got to say this.  Anyone that has watched the Titanic should be able to relate to this.  Cal was always a serious person.  Never wanted to laugh and have fun.  Jack on the other hand was opposite.  

What type of person are you?  Think about that. Are you so serious that life is not fun?  OR are you the type that loves fun, games and enjoyment?  Point to ponder.  :)

Mary

I will never forget Slews TC win.  I remember Secretariat too.  WOW what a decade.  Those were some sound horses.  :)

anonymous you should see the past ones on these Nicanor blogs when a un-named person does 7 in a row. In past years those talking to themselves were street people or hidden away.

Here's what I think is important to this point

A-Since Barbaro didn't go to stud it is nice to see the bloodline continued

B-Although not yet stake worthy the horse ran a good race and has some talent. He was trying at the end after coming to the outside so also has a little gameness.

C-He has a chance of improving

Now those talking of his markings, blazes and the like--Really!!!! Who give a rat's----

His clean straight legs, chest size and proportions now those are conversation points because they will count on this horse's future.

I can say almost without any doubt at this point he is much more valuable and his potential is only going to be realized after he is retired. Then and only then will you find out if he will stay in KY or end up forgotten and a footnote in MI like Northern Native (for those who don't know---and there are countless on this blog--he was Northern Dancer's full brother).  

Anonymous, what is your point?  And...why are you anonymous??

JAJ, you have so much good information.  Thank you so very much for it.  I've learned a lot from you.

We need more posts like yours.  CONSTRUCTIVE information!

Marigold

I agree that JAJ has good information.  Now if I can get JAJ to come to the wedding LOL some good ideas may surface.  :)  

Very constructive!  That is fine as long as it is civil.  We don't always have to agree but we should be respectful.  It isn't that hard.  :)

I was asked the question why do I care what other people here do, and then I was told I can go elsewhere.  You people have some nerve.  My response is, I love this blog, as do a lot of other people, and unfortunately a handful of silly, pushy, snobs have taken it over as their own private property.  You have ruined what could have been a wonderful thing for EVERYONE.  The real question is why don't YOU care?  The funny thing is Stardust, you know absolutely NOTHING about horseracing.  I think it would be more appropriate for YOU to move on, or at the very least attempt some self-control in a public forum.  I know this won't change anything, but I thought I would speak up for a lot of people who are getting disgusted.

Stardust, they sure were sound horses.  I don't know if we will ever see another triple crown winner, although before Secretariat a lot of people thought that there would never be another one.  The Affirmed-Alydar races in 1978 were unbelievable.  Seattle Slew was one of the greatest.

way to go, boy! keep improving!

Stardust, what are the names of the horses you rescued?

Secretariat took a while to get the idea (during his training).  He was more interested in his feeding time than his training/racing time. But once he had a taste of racing, he fired up and engaged.  His record wasn't perfect, just nearly perfect.  He had extenuating circumstances a couple of times, just as Nicanor did.  Most of the experienced commentators and others have suggested that Nic's first race shouldn't count.  This past race counts.  That was a GOOD second place finish and revealed a lot about Nicanor's abilities.  His next race should be really interesting.  He's been a slow to mature horse. Evidently it runs in the family (Barbaro was the exception to the rule) and he is a product of his gene pool.  Give the horse a break.  He'll do it all in his own time.  "Dynaformers are late bloomers, slow to develop, but worth the wait."  Someone said that not long ago, and they are right!

Mary

I think that we will see another TC winner and I think it will be Lentenor.  Something about him.  He is doing everything right.  

Mulberry

You're right, they are late bloomers.  Nothing wrong with that.  They are much sounder and stronger when they are older as far as I am concerned so that is a good thing.  Good Post.  

In response to some of the other questions.  I have been a FOB from the very beginning and done a lot of work with the FOB's.  I am here to stay with big brother Barbaro.  He is the best!  Always has been, always will be in my eyes.  Us Fans of Barbaro are making things safer for ALL the horses and I love that.  He was a champ in every way. :)  I don't go anywhere but here with Barbaro's brothers and the family.  :)  I know enough about horse racing and I don't really care what others think of that. I know what I know and that is what really counts.

Happy Trails..........

Mulberry, I agree his first race does not count. Most people would agree with that. I think he is a talented horse, just slow to mature, like you said.    

Mike Relva,

Sorry to hear your horse got hurt.  Did you have to do surgery or will it heal with just rest?

Anonymous

I asked that she Stardust be removed on another blog after she posted 8 in a row.

She even told me how a whip should be used-not that like me she has ever been on a thoroughbred on a racetrack-she knows everything. (I'd love to see on one that bolts to the outer rail-she'd probably pet his/her blaze while going through the rail killing her and the horse rather than have a whip)

To her credit she is not vulgar-although from her comments previously include saying that he would be fine for the Derby after his first start says volumes on her knowledge of the game. She even comments on me owning 25 racehorses presently although had she read I stated over the years-I lost my last one last Oct thru the claiming box and lost a shake recently on another. So she doesn't take time to read comments except her own.

THE BAD THING about the uber posters isn't that they post---- which is their right---it is when they start doing it one after another it destroys whatever line of legitimate thought or opinion that was being made.----------- Duh, we all love horses otherwise we wouldn't be here.------------ I also think it is fair to say we want this horse and his brother to do well. Doesn't mean we have to be idiots with comments here and unrealistic.  

That isn't fair to others.

Just an observation... Stardust says she has been an FOB since the beginning but did not post to this blog until Jan. 28... took off her Barbaro bracelet because it was blue... suddenly acquired a trainer's license sometime between the inauguration and then.. cannot name the horses she's "rescued" ... and for anyone who thinks she's 10, she is allegedly in her 40's. She also responded to a question about PP's by saying that she didn't like Nicanor's "post position," especially since it was next to KD and Custom for Carlos. Use your own judgment.

First Time Valley...I apologize for the late response to your post. You asked me if your response was intelligent enough for me.  It is not in a human being's nature to personally attach someone; rather it is a defense mecahnism that one uses when he feels threatened; i.e. he talks himself into believing that what he says is true, and any comments by others to the contrary is interpretated as a personal attack.  It's called projection; transferring your personal pain onto others. Personally attacking someone is never the right thing to do.  When an indivudal personally attacks ANYONE, he loses all credibility and he loses the respect of the person or persons being attacked.  It breaks the human spirit; life is too short.  

Mary

They are not breeding them anymore like they did back in the day.  The horses back then were so sound and strong.  I sure wish that we could come up with a cure for that deadly L!  I know that I have done my part with the cc's.  I just wish that they would figure it out.  

Amanda, how much has been donated so far for the deadly L?  We need to get a cure for that.  Poor horses.  :(

A great horse. He is inexperienced but has the speed. All horses are different, while Barbaro seemed more aggressive, Nicanor can get there too. Missing Barbaro always.

lol, Concerned Fan, Now that is funny, Are you honestly that obsessed with Stardust that you actually went back to the beginning of this blog to see when she posted her first comment ?, You seem to know all the details of her posts !, WOW, that is soo sad, Really you need to direct your energy in a different way, You say "Just an Observation", I believe you meant, "Just an Obsession", Anyways, Just an Observation on my behalf !, TOO FUNNY...

mark w

When did I say that you owned 25 horses?  I never said that.  I also never said that I have been on a race horse other than when they were retired.  It sure wasn't me that said those things.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I smell a rat.  You are wrong.  I did not say the things that you said I said.  Is someone else using my name?  

Greg J.

Toooooooooooooooo funny!  I have been posting over here for years.  Just not under Stardust LOL!  How funny.  Oh my and as for being in the FOB family LOL I have been there through it all.  I think most people that know me know that.  

Trainers licence?  LOL  No I have a grooms license.  How in the hell did that get screwed up.  OK now for the horses.  Start with A and go to Z.  My credit card statements speak for themselves.  This is tooooooooo funny.  

I made an update to the wedding Greg.  :-)  

Why in the world would anyone spend so much time with me.  This totally cracks me up.  

Oh and for the record, I have had a "grooms" license for three years.  LOL.  This is so funny I am in aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.  Why in the world would anyone care so much about my life.  That is so un healthy.  

Mark.  I never said you had 25 horses.  I have never been on a race horse on the track.  Where are you getting this?  All I have done is take them home when the owners/trainers kick them to the curb or in one case one was being drugged and we bought him to get him away from that mess.  Amanda made it very clear that Nicanor was not going to be in the Derby.  I trust her and her wisdom.  I don't claim to know that much about racing but I do know some things.  I know I love BARBARO and the Family.... :)   Mark if I put you down in anyway, I apologize.  I don't remember doing that.  I would hope that Amanda doesn't let others use my name in posts.  

Happy Trails.  

Yawn, I googled michael vick  steven chandler!!! HiLARious! Thanks.

Just for the record, laminitis is definitely something you never want your horse to get, but it is not necessarily "deadly." My 26-year-old mare had it when she was young, and obviously she survived.

At this point, the Big C (colic) is more of a concern for us... although it, also, is not necessarily deadly, as we doctored two horses through it last summer.

Anyone else in So Cal who has had a bad time with colicking horses in the hot summer?

Qatgirl

I have seen a few die from colic. That is horrible.  That is why diet is so important for horses.  Some people don't understand that over feeding a horse can cause serious damage.  People think they are doing the right thing when in fact, the horses tummy is so sensitive that they aren't doing the right thing.  It is sad.  

Laminitis is horrible.  I wish they would find a cure for that.  There has to be something that they can come up with for that deadly L.  I know that it was very painful for poor Barbaro and that is why Dr. R. and the Jackson's finally decided they had had enough and weren't going to make him go through anymore pain with his hooves.  

It kills me that he healed from the injury just fine and then that deadly L got him in the end.  We all really believed he was going to make it.  I'll never forget that horrible day when we all got the news and lost it.  So many of us just fell apart and I am thankful that the FOB's were there to hold me up.  I was a mess.  :(

Stardust you win-

I can't be bothered searching posts to prove it StarDust because you have 100 to every 1 of another to prove to are not dealing with the facts.

Here are some lowlites

Expert Rider/Jockey--AND SHE ADDRESSED IT TWICE

As for the whip.  Well I adressed that a while ago.  THAT should be the ONLY reason for that.  I have seen welts on horses that made me so mad because of the use of that whip.  They don't deserve to be hit that hard.  There is a difference beween tapping the horse to make them run where you want then to and whipping them to the wire.  BIG DIFFERENCE!  I have also had race horses before that we were able----- to train with the reigns. ----IS SHE GOOD OR WHAT????---It isn't that hard to do.  it just takes patience. stardust

NOTICE--RACEHORSES PLURAL--she said she had 1 retired riding horse

Marc W - I cannot ban someone due to how often they post, but this is a good time to remind everyone to TRY and stay on topic. This blog isn't meant to be a personal venting board on any topic you choose. Thank you.

aduckworth

MY TRY TO GET THIS BLOG BACK TO NORMAL

09 Feb 2009 8:37 AM

Amanda.  How is Nicanor doing?  Do you know when he will race again?  I wonder if Matz will put him on the turf next time.  

This is only February. ---------- I wonder if there really is a way that he could make it into the Derby.  ????????????

DERBY HOW???????????? DUMB IS THAT AFTER HIS FIRST RACE??????

Anyone knows Stakes earning are involved in the selection process for the Derby--well most people-- and he was maiden-still is-and these people owning wouldn't destroy his spirit by outclassing him

Moderator reply

stardust -- It seems highly unlikely Nicanor would race in the Derby. As far as an update on Nicanor, the last post concerning him is less than a week old. There is a delicate balance in reporting to readers about the horse and respecting that his connections have a job to do and have already been more than generous with their time. Matz said it will take some time for Nicanor to heal and there wasn't a set race for him. I doubt that has changed in six days.

You win--I'll leave this post-someone who actually worked on a breeding farm-took 2 yrs olds to training sales, groomed, trained, owned 25 that raced--you are the expert.

Of what I don't know-certainly doesn't have to do with racing or horses but I guess I stay on Haskin's because you are not there

I hear Bobby Frankel and Todd P. have been looking for some advice and you are first choice for the Jones horses when Larry retires.

- Good Luck to you and all

Stardust - Quote from you - Blog entry = "Nicanor finishes off the board" - Your post = Feb. 2, 2009:

"SharpHumor87 and Kathy

I have been to a lot of race tracks.  I have owned race horses.  I have a racing license for my state..."

That does not say "groomer's license." It implies that you have raced horses. You say you have rescued race horses. Name 3 horses that you have rescued, 3 horses that can be verified that have actually set foot on a racetrack. Then maybe you will have some credibility. What other names have you posted under? I'd like to read those posts. How come when confronted with a comment about PP's, you responded with a statement about Nicanor's "Post Position"? I have nothing to do with the racing industry, yet I know what PP stands for!

(Correction in my previous post - I said "trainer's license," you said "racer's license." Now you say "groomer's license." Do groomers race?)

-----------------

Greg J - I do my research before I speak. I just lay out the facts. You can use your own judgment.

Yes, it is an "observation." The obsession is yours and Stardust's - I am not planning a horsey wedding!

-----------------

Marc W - Welcome to the "beating head against brick wall" club! Come on in, the water's fine!

marc W

I do remember saying this "As for the whip.  Well I adressed that a while ago.  THAT should be the ONLY reason for that.  I have seen welts on horses that made me so mad because of the use of that whip.  They don't deserve to be hit that hard.  There is a difference beween tapping the horse to make them run where you want then to and whipping them to the wire.  BIG DIFFERENCE!  I have also had race horses before that we were able----- to train with the reigns."  I still feel that way.  Doesn't make me a bad person, just makes me not like the whip. :)

I know Amanda told me Nicanor wasn't going to win the Derby.  That is how I found that out.  I don't understand the hostility here.  

I surly won't deny what I said.  

Have a good day.  :)

marc W

I am here because of Barbaro and his brothers.  I could care less about anything other than the safety of the horses.  You don't know me.  I don't really care what you think of me.  I have never been a jockey.  I have never been a trainer but I have owned race horses.  X-race horses.  So whatever  your trip is, is what it is.  I for the life of me cannot understand why people like you have to always come to the blogs of Nicanor and put people down.  Some people thrive on that kind of stuff.  I don't.  I don't enjoy putting other people down.  It doesn't give me a thrill.  

Good luck with your life and I hope that you do well with whatever you are doing.  You have NO CLUE who I am and where I have been and what I do and do not know.  Just try to be nice.  It isn't that hard to do.  :)

Thanks Amanda.  

I am done with those people and won't reply to them again.  

Have you heard from anything about Lentenor lately?  

For the record I have ONE thing to say here.  

On a licence it say "states racing license".  It does not say trainer, groomer, owner, or anything else.  It says racing.  

Amanda I had to say this because these attackers are wanting to know.  

If is none of anyones busieness what I have done and how many horses I have taken part in helping.  If I chose to tell people where I keep my horses, and who my horses are, I will do that.  I am not doing it with people that I have no clue who they are.  Above and beyond all, I would NEVER tell someone in the racing industry because those are the very people that they were rescued from.  We are trying to give these horses homes away from the abuse.  

OK I am done rambling now and you guys that feel the need to medal into my life, can talk to yourselves from now on. Your bashing posts will not affect me because I won't read them :)

It seems like people are out to get Stardust when they simply ask her questions.

Some of us have encountered Stardust on other posts. Some of us hate to see the people here taken in by her and hate to see her taking over this blog.

Greg, I really enjoyed the video of Secretariat.  I have watched his rac es, but I have never seen that video.  I loved the grass in his mouth,  LOL  The only thing that USED to make me mad was him being called Big Red, WHEN THAT TITLE BELONGED TO MAN O WAR.

Just like calling that modern singer "chairman of the Board" - when that title belogned to Frank Sinatra!

I think Nicanor had a good race.

TO CHRISTY:

I,for one buy much of what Stardust is selling! If you have such a problemw/her it's not Rocket Science,ignore her posts',simple as that!

TO: CONCERNED FAN:

Obviously you don't mind the blog that much,you're on here aren't you?

TO: MARY

Good point you made to that certain individual that envisions himself as "writing the book on everything regarding horseracing"

I wish Nicanor's next race would be on turf.  (So Dubinsky can break his maiden on dirt.  Poor Dubinsky.) I wish Nic's race could be on turf so that he could show that he's a turf horse and carve his own niche there.

TO: GREG J

Thanks for your questions and concern. It's greatly appreciated.

Yes. He's amazing!! I watched this on the OTB channel. I'm one of those non-bettors who is so horse-obsessed I sit in front of the television all day just watching ponies run! lol...

but if he has just 1/2 a furlong more, he could've caught the winner and beat him.

Stardust what state gave you a "states racing license"? I'm just curious because whenever I've got a license in the US or Canada I've had to get a specific one. As in Owner,Trainer, Ponyboy/girl, Groom, etc. Not trying to attack just curious like I said okay?

HRTV discussing Nicanor today and showing his gallop out from last weekend said he showed tremendous promise would be winning a lot soon.

This was transmitted to me by a friend.  I don't have HRTV, darn it.  It's not available here.

Wanda.  

The license says "states racing commission" on the side of it.  I really don't want to put the state down but the states name is in place of the word state. It also has the states logo.  Then on the bottom of the license it says groom.  I have to go and get it and I can tell you exactly what it says.  Essentially it is a license that says "state racing commission and then the groom part is just a word on the bottom of the license.  I imagine that with trainers, that word would say trainer or owner or whatever.  Does this help?  The main wording on the lisence says "state racing commission"  It has my name and the exp. date on it.  Are you still confused?  

Wanda I stand corrected in my post.  My license does identify the groom part but that is not very big.  It and it doesn't say racing it says commision.  Hope that clears all of this up.  I haven't looked at it for awhile cause I haven't used it.  LOL

Marigold, I have HRTV and there was a discussion about Nicanor.  They said that in the final moments of the race he was running just like Barbaro.  A little more distance and he would have won the race.  Everyone is very impressed with him.  He's a beautiful colt.  

Srardust: No not confused and no need to say what state you had a license in. So you held a grooms license in your state that's great. Yes they all have commission on them as that is the ruling body for that location. Here in Alberta it was the ARC then changed to HRA because the government handed over the job of the commission to Horse Racing Alberta.