In the Spirit of Christmas...



The date was October 14, 2000.  A three year colt was making his debut at Santa Anita in a maiden special weight race.  As for any first time starter, the sky was the limit and the possibilities endless.  He came in sixth on that day, and he would continue to race at Santa Anita, Hollywood Park, and Del Mar for the next 15 months.  In that time, he won one race in 13 starts, a $20,000 maiden claiming race at Del Mar on July 30, 2001, for his owners the Firmamento Corporation.  

This colt would continue to race for over five more years, with his last race on February 10, 2007 at Rillito Park race track in Tucson, Arizona.  On that day, he was entered for a claiming price of $1,500, finishing last in the field of six.  With that race, he had just finished his career on the track at the age of ten.  He had raced for over six years, having 56 starts, 8 wins, 6 seconds, and 6 thirds with earnings of $34,113.  In that span, he was owned by three separate owners and raced at Santa Anita, Hollywood Park, Del Mar, Rillito, Turf Paradise, Yavapai Downs, Graham Fair, Cochise Fair, Santa Cruz, Flagstaff, and Gila Fair.  From there, the story is more or less lost, as this colt struggled to stay alive.

Just last week, December 12, 2010 to be exact, this colt was found wandering about in someone’s yard in the southeast corner of the Arizona desert, emaciated and barely able to move.  His condition was so bad that he wasn’t even a possibility for the state auction.  At this point in his life, euthanasia would most likely be his fate.  A last second phone call was made to a local horse rescue, Heart of Tucson, who agreed to take this brave colt under their wings and do all that they could to heal him or at least restore the dignity he so deserved.  He arrived at Heart of Tucson in a very weak condition.  He is malnourished, has horrific teeth, sores, and has severe rotten smelling abscesses in all of his feet.  They are doing all that they can to bring him back to being a healthy colt once again.  They say he is a sweetheart and has a strong will to live.  Since this is the holiday season, with no prior knowledge of his racing name, the good people at Heart of Tucson named this colt “Gifted.”  Two days after “Gifted” was given his name, the people at Heart of Tucson ran his tattoo.  His racing name was no longer a mystery.

His name is Dyna King, sired by Dynaformer out of the mare Rekindled, foaled in 1997.  

By racing standards, I know he is not a half brother to Barbaro, Nicanor, Lentenor, or Margano, but they are still all connected by their father, Dynaformer.  The sire of Gifted aka Dyna King being the same as Barbaro and his brothers, means to me that his story needs to be told, and the people responsible for his condition should be found and held accountable down the road.

What Dyna King has had to endure in the last four years must have been a living hell for him.  I would like to think about his future rather than think what that hell must have been like for him.  He has a long recovery ahead of him, and that is what I would like to focus on and for you to pray for.  
This is indeed a story about the Spirit of Christmas.  A horse near death found in the cruel barren desert is a miracle to begin with.  His cries of suffering and anguish and pain sent from his heart as he wandered lost and alone, most likely just discarded by whomever was supposed to be caring for him, were heard, and he was rescued by…. HEART of Tucson.  Heart of Tucson heard the Heart cries of Dyna King/Gifted.  Now he needs another Christmas miracle – survival.

May we all remember that the true spirit of Christmas is giving.  In the spirit of Christmas, while I know times are very tough for everyone, a small donation, no matter the amount, would greatly help Dyna King/Gifted on his long road to recovery.  It is no coincidence that this brave and long suffering colt was named Gifted by Heart of Tucson before they ran his tattoo.  Please help this great warrior and gentle spirit in his attempts to recover from his terrible physical condition by giving, by donating to Heart of Tucson.  I have provided a link to Heart of Tucson’s web page, as well as a link to their Facebook page, which will show you what they are all about to include that they have 501(c)(3) status, meaning your donations are tax deductible.  You may donate by “snail mail” or pay pal.   You certainly may donate after Christmas – maybe you will receive a bit of money and share it with this colt, son of Dynaformer, who is in dire need of help.  Again, no amount is too small.  Remember most of all the true Spirit of Christmas and that there are indeed Christmas miracles.  This is one of them.  He once was lost and now is found.  But he needs the miracle of survival.  God bless Heart of Tucson rescue!

I will be keeping everyone updated on his progress on the long road to recovery.  

I, along with Dyna King and Heart of Tucson, thank you from the bottom of my heart!

 

Dyna King's pedigree:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/dyna+king

Heart of Tucson’s website:
http://heartoftucson.org/index.html

Heart of Tucson’s Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=94549935886&ref=ts#!/group.php?gid=94549935886

Video of Dyna King/Gifted when he arrived at Heart of Tucson:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=485316511519&oid=94549935886&comments

Video of Dyna King/Gifted on Youtube, December 12, 2010:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os0UWQ4BVVM

UPDATED VIDEO of Dyna King/Gifted on Youtube, January 1, 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxSEobHD31Y



Photos of Dyna King/Gifted, taken by Mia Larocque on December 12, 2010:






"Dyna King in his racing days"

---

 The Following photos are courtesy of Carole Andreen-Harris.






 

874 Comments

Leave a Comment:

Kathy

Thank you for telling the story of Dyna King. I sent my donation in yesterday. Merry Christmas everyone!!!

I will focus on the positive and wish Dyna King a speedy recovery.

20 Dec 2010 2:09 PM
Cal Gal

OMG, every time I see his face and read his story, I become a complete puddle.  He has the most beautiful face -- reminds me of Lentenor, and with good reason.  This beautiful son of Dynaformer did not in any way deserve this  and the people responsible should be brought to account for their actions.  Prayers and Pleadings for his recovery and long happy life ahead.

20 Dec 2010 2:20 PM
PerfectSoul

God bless Dyna King and Heart of Tuscon. I hope his breeder remembers him and contributes something too. We need a racehorse "retirement fund" so this type of stuff doesn't happen.

20 Dec 2010 2:22 PM
Penny in TX

This story breaks my heart. The picture of his racing days shows such a proud looking horse. The spirit that was in him that day made him survive such as he has. My donation is in the mail today. Please give us follow ups on this beautiful horse.

Happy Holidays to all

20 Dec 2010 2:33 PM
Robert

This is a beautiful horse with a Million dollar pedigree to boot.  It will be my pleasure to donate to his well being.  Thanks for bringing his story to us.  Merry Christmas.

20 Dec 2010 2:37 PM
Mary Adkins-Matthews

As bas as he looks and as bad as his condition is, he is a lucky horse. He last raced in 2007, most horses in this situation would have already have been sent to slaughter.

It happens every day to race horses that are no longer needed and wanted. The horse racing industry has many programs in place to help horses but NOT enough. They are still being found in livestock auctions. These horses are NOT livestock and should NOT be considered livestock.  

At some point the owners of these horses MUST be made to be responsible. It has hurt the racing industry enough already and it can not afford to be hurt more.

20 Dec 2010 2:44 PM
lynn

last year i was faced with the task of helping 2 very nice stallions survive abuse and neglect at a farm in louisiana. one had to be on IV fluids and did not get up for 3 days....we did not think they would survive, but both are healthy and happy today, as i am sure "gifted" will be with your care and donations of all his well wishers...including me!  

20 Dec 2010 2:56 PM
Ann in Texas

Heartbreaking what happens, not just to ex-racers, but horses and other animals in general. "Use 'em and lose em" What great stewards of God's creatures we are.

20 Dec 2010 3:10 PM
Jenny

Thank you Greg for bringing his story to light. Thank you Heart of Tucson for ssying yes and giving him loving hearts.

Keeping you in prayers Dyna King, your wondering painful days are behind you now.

20 Dec 2010 3:12 PM
PattyTX1

Thank you so much, Greg for shedding a light on this most deserving horse.  Dyna King has the most beautiful look on his face even after all he has been through.  I would like to ask that everyone who reads this blog just send $5 to HEART of Tuscon, if you can.  The funds would add up very quickly, and we all could be part of this miracle.

20 Dec 2010 3:45 PM
susan

I am a volunteer with HEART and am fostering two mares for them right now.  I can promise you that they will work as hard as they can to heal this beautiful horse and return him to a happy life.  They are totally legitimate and I see first hand the miracles they have made.  Check out the video of other TBs and other horses they haved saved from near death - the before videos and photos are tough, but the "after" ones will make you smile!

20 Dec 2010 3:45 PM
NVSally

Thanks Greg - well written story.  I am praying for Dyna King/Gifted's speedy recovery.  Also sending a few $$ in the mail.

20 Dec 2010 3:50 PM
will

Thank you so much.  I am praying for "Gifted".  Doesn't he have a beautiful head and face (like his "half brothers")?  Merry Christmas.

20 Dec 2010 4:14 PM
Penny in TX

To all of you that have taken in or fostered these precious horses, thank you, thank you, thank you. You have my utmost respect. Although I cannot take in large large animals, I do what I can by donations. I agree with Ann in Texas, there are so many animals large and small that are "use them" and "lose them". I do what I can by the smaller animals that have been tossed aside in providing a forever home for them. Will, I agree he does have a beautiful head and those eyes are just gorgeous.  

20 Dec 2010 4:52 PM
Sally F

Thank You for spreading the word about how much help these beautiful souls need.  It's impossible to understand the cruelty that exists.  We all must help as much as we possibly can!  Organizations that save and rehabilitate animals in distress must be supported.  The donation I made today is truly the best thing I have done this Christmas - I'm honored!

20 Dec 2010 5:00 PM
Robin Jude

Greg,

Bless you for telling Gifted-Kings story.

We will continue to bring this to others attention and pray for his total recovery so he can experience a loving retirement free from all pain.

20 Dec 2010 5:02 PM
JAJ

Greg,

I was pretty horrified to see this.  Sadly it is not an isolated incident.  Lots of horses end up in this predicament.  Most are non-purebreds and breeds other than Thoroughbreds, but enough are Thoroughbreds that the industry should be ashamed.

I've never had a laminitic horse, but I thought the pictures looked as if this might be his main problem, with the infection caused by the coffin bone rotating and coming through the sole.

Or is it years of foot neglect compounding an initial problem of crushed heels?

Has anyone identified what is wrong with the Dyna King's feet?

20 Dec 2010 5:15 PM
Sarah

Thanks for sharing Gifted's story.

He's a beautiful boy...

20 Dec 2010 5:38 PM
Linda

Thank you for this story of a great horse!  TEARS!  I shall donate for DynaKing aka Gifted to honor St Francis, and the beloved memory of Barbaro.  Yes, Greg, this is a Miracle of Christmas!  Thanks to all who are helping this beautiful horse!

20 Dec 2010 5:50 PM
PatC

What a tough story to read, but it had to be told.  This abuse of these majestic animals has to stop.  I only hope that the ones responsible for this travesty are brought to justice, quickly.

Thanks Greg, it must've been as tough for you to write this as it is for us to read it.

20 Dec 2010 6:09 PM
Bernel

Greg, thank you for sharing this wonderful miracle with all of us.  I pray that the person(s) that allowed this to happen will be caught.  What a horrible fate for someone to bestow on this beautiful animal. Here's hoping for a fast and speedy recovery and a long life of love and freedom.

20 Dec 2010 6:28 PM
Debbie1948

Thanks Greg and Bloodhorse for telling his story. Prayers

20 Dec 2010 6:40 PM
Brut Al Fobio

A safe and healthy holiday wish from Brut Al.

20 Dec 2010 6:57 PM
Dona

OMG Greg, This is so heart breaking. To think that he's  Dynaformer's son is so over whelming. I curse those that have allowed this to happen to such a wonderful old warrior. I just made a donation to Heart and want to thank you for bringing this sad story to our attention. Bless you and all your family, you are a very nice man.

Keep us informed on the progress of Dyna King/Gifted and also if you hear anything about the people responsible for his horrible state. I want to email the authorities that are responsible for bringing them to justice and encourage the harshest penalty possible.

I can't get over how much he looks like the Brothers.

20 Dec 2010 7:19 PM
Mary

What has happened to this beautiful animal is simply unconscionable.  I will make a donation.  The individuals that did this to him should suffer the way that Dyna King has.  

20 Dec 2010 7:23 PM
Kathy from Toledo

Thank you for telling this horse's story, Greg. May Gifted, aka Dynaking, look forward to restored health and the happy life that he deserves!

20 Dec 2010 7:31 PM
Grandma Bea

Greg-wow, what can I say other than magnificent! You had me bawling right from the start. This is a beautiful story. Thank you for writing it.

Hugs & Happy Holidays,

Grandma Bea & my 3 kitties

20 Dec 2010 7:47 PM
smartybob

NO son of Dynaformer should be treated this way, The old owners should be brought up on charges. Making my donation asap  Merry Christmas

20 Dec 2010 8:10 PM
Mary

I won the Beanie Barbaro on ebay. I feel really good about it, and I dedicate it to Dyna King.  Greg, is he going to be okay?

20 Dec 2010 8:47 PM
HaleyB

Thank you Greg for telling the story of Dyna King/Gifted. It is hard to believe that this happens to our racing heroes, but we have become a "throw away" society which affects animals and humans. Gifted is one of the lucky ones and my heart breaks for him and what he has gone through. How much more our hearts hurt and we mourn for those who are not so lucky. In a perfect world, there would be no slaughter. How I yearn for a world like that. Blessings to Heart of Tucson and all who have helped with this precious one.

20 Dec 2010 8:49 PM
Mary

I won the Beanie Barbaro on ebay.  It cost a bit of money but it's for a good cause.  I dedicate the Beanie to Dyna King.  

20 Dec 2010 8:50 PM
Lou in TX

Greg..thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. I have made a donation and hope he has a full recovery. Please keep us posted on how is progressing.

God Bless you for being such a kind and loving person.

Hope everyone has a Very Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

20 Dec 2010 9:08 PM
Greg J.

Here is an update on Gifted/Dyna King for today:

He seems to be feeling a little better today. He was up walking around in his stall. He is also getting some energy back. Mark, the farrier, was working on his hooves yesterday. From what we see, his front left hoof looks more like what a hoof should look like.

As long he makes a tiny little improvement each day, this gives us hope.

Thank you all for your concern and kind words. - Erica, HEART volunteer

20 Dec 2010 9:19 PM
Susie

Thanks for bringing this poor horse to our attention.  No animal no matter who their father is deserves this fate.  It makes me so angry and sad.  Just made my donation.

20 Dec 2010 10:47 PM
Janet

Thanks Greg for getting Dyna King's sad story out to the public. He was betrayed by the people he ran his heart out for and then was thrown away like trash. I've made a donation and will continue to pray for his complete recovery.  Many thanks to Heart of Tucson for taking him in and giving him the care and love he so desperately needs and deserves.

20 Dec 2010 11:20 PM
gammyp6

I too cannot believe how beautiful his headshot is after everything he has been through. This story did need telling and yes my donation is on the way. I think he looks serene because he knows that he is being helped and that his trust in people can be restored. It is so sad that we live in a world where anything and anybody who outlives "usefulness" (and who determines that anyway)is discarded like so much trash. It runs the gamut from babies in dumpsters to horses in the desert. But this season is all about redemption. And there is hope. There has to be hope. Fight on Dyna King. Fight on.

20 Dec 2010 11:35 PM
needler in Virginia

Donation made with tears all over the keyboard. Because it's the holidays I won't say how I feel at this moment  'cause it is NOT kind, warm and fuzzy. I'd rather send $50 to HEART than 23 cents to a racetrack right now. TOO many horses, TOO many rna's, TOO many on those damned trucks, and TOO BLOODY MANY just disappear...HOW CAN THAT BE? Gandhi was right.....we ARE judged by how we treat animals.............that bunch just failed miserably.

Now that's PARTIALLY out of my system, I'm gonna watch a lunar eclipse and think good thoughts. I'm thinking of Gifted and his fight, and poop on his previous "owners" (I'd much rather say something else, but decency forbids it here). Hang in there Big Guy; there really ARE some nice folks out there. Thank goodness you and HEART found each other.

Cheers and safe trips to ALMOST all.........

20 Dec 2010 11:50 PM
Kate

After reading his story I am in tears.  No animal should ever be allowed to get in the condition he is in!  I too am praying for Dyna King/Gifted.  And will have a donation in the mail very soon, am a bit short on money at the moment.  Thank you Greg for bringing his story to light and please keep us updated on how he is doing.  Merry Christmas everyone, and I hope it is the first of many Christmases that indeed turn out to be Merry and much better than the ones you have experienced these past few years, Dyna King/Gifted.

21 Dec 2010 12:00 AM
Kim C.

It's unbelievable the shape of this poor horse. A donation is on the way.  I can't wait to hear and see the updates on him.  Thanks for the story Greg. Merry Christmas!

21 Dec 2010 12:35 AM
needler in Virginia

Oops, may I ask I question here?? I KNOW that Thoroughbred breeders do NOT consider Gifted to be a half brother to the Barbaro gang, HOWEVER, on what planet are the get of the same stallion NOT related? Don't throw confusing answers at me, 'cause there's only one that makes sense: Barbaro, Nicanor, Lentenor, Dyna King and every other offspring of Dynaformer are related....full stop.  As far as I know, every single TB foal has a sire and a dam; each contributes DNA, the result is that every foal carrying Dynaformer's DNA is RELATED to Dynaformer, and therefore related to any other foal that carries Dynaformer DNA. Now that wasn't so bad, was it?? Don't worry, it will get rally silly when a breeder steps in to explain how Gifted is NOT related to The Gang....REALLY??

Cheers and safe trips to ALMOST everyone...again.

21 Dec 2010 12:48 AM
GunBow

Thank you for telling the story of "Gifted". Of course, I wish all the best for him and the wonderful people helping him.

21 Dec 2010 3:29 AM
Criminal Type

What is wrong with people? This is the reason it's so much easier for me to love animals more then people. It makes you wonder who the superior species really is, because clearly the people responsible for this are heartless, as well as stupid. I can't even imagine the pain this poor guy is in with those feet. Im sick of these owners who care so little of these horses, that they basically wash their hands of them once they leave their barn's or in some cases even before. These are the people who need to be banned from owning & racing horses. They are no good for the sport. Horror stories, like this one are what sticks with people outside of racing and gives it a black eye. I certainly hope whoever is responsible for this gets what he or she deserves.

21 Dec 2010 5:48 AM
JAJ

I'm going to go out on a limb here and put forward some of the issues surrounding unwanted horses which is what Dyna King is.

The basic problem is there are more horses than there are homes for them.  It is not just a Thoroughbred problem, but one of all horses.  What do you do with them when no one wants them?

Euthanasia.  Quick, painless but expensive.  Not only is the procedure expensive, but there is the cost of removing the body.

Rehoming.  Not feasible as there are too many horses and too few homes.  Horses are very expensive to keep unlike a cat or a dog.  They require a LOT of vet work and routine maintenance dogs and cats never need.  They require their own buildings, large fenced areas and equipment.  They are not cheap.

Retirement homes.  While a nice idea in theory, they are unlikely to work in the long run as they become filled with permanent residents who for reasons of health or temperament are not candidates for finding a new home.  Once filled, a rescue cannot bring in any new horses in need of a home.  Retirement homes are also magnets for animal hoarders.  There have been many cases recently in the news of "rescues" being charged with animal abuse.

In the past, slaughter was one solution.  Horses that were no longer wanted could be disposed of easily.  Nothing has replaced this solution.  Slaughter is still an option, but the horses are shipped either to Canada or to Mexico which only adds to their misery.  I believe Canada will be enacting new rules (they might already be in effect) that will disallow horses for slaughter who have had certain drugs (which every racehorse has had) within the past 6 months of slaughter.  That will mean all Thoroughbreds destined for slaughter will end up going to Mexico.

Some people are simply turning their horses loose and it is on the increase.  In Puerto Rico, there is a program at the racetrack where for $25 you can euthanise your horse.  The goal is to prevent people just turning loose racehorses who are finished their racing careers.  Turning a horse loose even in tropical Puerto Rico means eventual starvation for the horse.

I suspect Dyna King was one such horse.  He has bad teeth, so has not be able to eat.  Even if he could eat well, he is a Thoroughbred and they are not known for being easy to keep--they need grain supplemented to a pasture diet.  I don't think there was much of a pasture where Dyana King was found.  Dyana King might have been in perfect condition when an owner did what they thought was the best solution, which was to turn him loose.

I saw the video of him hobbling in the paddock.  That's how lame a horse gets with even a minor stone bruise that has abscessed, which is a very common minor injury.  If Nicanor had an abscess, that's how lame he would be.  Let's not confuse acute lameness for long term abuse.  It makes for good PETA-type video, though.

His feet look like they could be a couple of things.  Most likely, he has a poor foot that is common to Thoroughbreds.  The heel is not strong enough to support the foot and the structures of the hoof wall end up crushed.  As time goes on, the heels keep crushing (and not growing) while the toe grows, giving this long toe, low heel hoof conformation.  It requires expert farrier's care, something Dyna King lacked.  The abscesses are common in horses, particularly horses with thin, shelly hooves.

I've asked if he suffers from chronic laminitis.  I wondered if the reason he has the foot abscesses was because of coffin bone rotation where the coffin bone rotates and comes through the sole of the foot.

The solution to the unwanted horse problem is very complex.  Closing slaughtering facilities does not solve the problem.  It it still there.

21 Dec 2010 7:00 AM
JAJ

Needler in Virginia,

Dyna King is sired by Dyanaformer, so I guess you can say he is "related" to all other Dynaformer foals but that is not how the industry views it.  To me, he is just another Dynaformer foal, one of over 1,130.

When breeders talk about "family" they talk about the mares' family simply to be able to make sense of pedigrees and see trends.

Stallions sire many, many foals and there are many different statistics available to evaluate a stallion's siring ability.  After a few crops, he becomes a known quality.

A mare, on the other hand only produces, a few foals.  What her sisters and brothers have done on the racetrack or in the breeding shed is a good way of trying to get an idea of how good a breeding might be.

If you think of it in terms of trying to quantify the potential for a breeding or a resultant foal, it might make a bit more sense to you.

21 Dec 2010 7:14 AM
Kathy

Dogpatch near Tucson

They say there is a place in the desert near Tucson called Dogpatch where feral dogs roam and bones from the unfortunate ones lie strewn around. Rescue groups visit houses and inoculate those either abandoned or who do not have a choice in their living arrangement. The stench is a bothersome reminder to those who visit that another animal has died and has been left there on his deathbed which may be a couch inside a house or under someone’s car. They say no one seems to know how to cleanup the problem. I might suggest having a satellite Human Society office built in the area where they can rescue the animals that are dumped or are living more or less on someone’s property. People obviously have figured out a long time ago that who is going to notice another animal in this area when you have hundreds milling about.

Here is a recent article talking about Dogpatch and the unfortunate animals that live there.

www.trivalleycentral.com/.../doc4d0b883eeb71e726570386.txt

21 Dec 2010 7:42 AM
Greg J.

To all,

First,

Thanks to everyone for their donations, Gifted/Dyna King and everyone at Heart of Tucson appreciate them!

Second,

From the bottom of my heart, thank you for all the kind words.  This was heartbreaking to write about, but, Gifted/Dyna King's story needed to be told for him and all the others that are in the same situation.  All the praise goes to Gifted/Dyna King for having that will to survive and, Heart of Tucson for being there for him.  He is at the beginning of a very long road to recovery, and I pray that I can continue to post his updates that show his progression to being completely healthy and pain free!

Here are updates on Gifted/Dyna King from the last couple of days:

Sunday:

He seems to be feeling a little better today. He was up walking around in his stall. He is also getting some energy back. Mark, the farrier, was working on his hooves yesterday. From what we see, his front left hoof looks more like what a hoof should look like.

Monday:

Dyna King is beginning to feel his oats.  He actually tried to kick at me today.  I can't tell you how happy that made me feel.  He had to put weight on both front legs to attempt to do that.

As long he makes a tiny little improvement each day, this gives us hope.

---Thank you all for your concern and kind words. - Erica, HEART volunteer

21 Dec 2010 7:47 AM
Bianca

Thank you for bringing this story to light. Glad to hear he is getting a little feisty, like big Daddy! Let's hope that spirit will help him along the road toward healing.

21 Dec 2010 8:03 AM
lobieb

Greg kudos for your rendered piece on Dyna-King.  Prayers for our boy that he will be able to recover from the plight he was in.  I don't really understand some humans and yes they say it is a "business" but if you race a horse, own a horse or anything else related you should take care of that animal as they can't take care of themselves. Donation on it's way to heart for Dyna-King and prayers that he will be able to live out the rest of his life with all the dignity he deserves.

21 Dec 2010 8:23 AM
LouAnn Cingel of Union, Missouri

Bless his heart-and thank God for his being rescued.  Miracles do happen.  May Gifted do well and hopefully he will soon find his forever home and be loved and cared for just as he so rightfully deserves!

My Prayers, Love & Blessings to Gifted!

LouAnn

21 Dec 2010 9:26 AM
Greybirdk

Thanks for this story, Greg: for bringing it to the FOBs; for reminding us that not all horses are as lucky as Lael horses; for remembering the true spirit of the season.  This horse is family to us, we have to help him.  I don't have much to spare right now but I will do this in Barbaro's name.  

21 Dec 2010 11:17 AM
Marigoldl

God Bless Dyna King/Gifted and Heart of Tucson and Greg for bringing this to our attention.  Merry Christmas and Peace and Good Health to all, and that includes Brut al!

21 Dec 2010 11:32 AM
Cal Gal

Question:  this endless and ongoing debate over the offspring of the same stallion and whether or not they are "officially" related.   the stand the industry takes about that does not line up with the racetrack announcers who consistently refer to horses as

"Street Cry's daughter (or son)".  They need to make up their minds and stop the confusion.

21 Dec 2010 11:36 AM
Larissa

This is a horrible story, but hopefully one that can have a happy ending.  I sent a donation his way.

21 Dec 2010 11:39 AM
Allie

With each story like this that shows how easily horses end up in this condition, I feel Thoroughbred Welfare takes a step forward. Awareness is the first step, and people who say "would never happen to OUR horses, they are VERY well bred!" will become a smaller and smaller group. The depressing thing is that an animal needs to suffer in order to afford the naysayers the education.

21 Dec 2010 11:45 AM
needler in Virginia

GOOD NEWS FROM HEART! Thanks for letting us know; now THAT is a nice holiday gift.

JAJ.......I KNOW about the argument you made; I've heard it before and realize it makes sense to someone in la-la land, but the basic reality is this: if two foals from different mares also carry Dynaformer genes, they ARE related. Go ask ANY geneticist or,  for that matter, any kid in high school who has been studying Mendel and the peas. Maybe the argument makes things "easier" for breeders. It does NOT make sense....thousands of Dynaformer foals vs ten foals from one mare....all the Dynaformers are related, and so are the ten foals out of the same mare and by ten different stallions. Basic genetics, no matter WHAT the breeders call it.

And Criminal Type, I agree completely. The root of the problem seems to be those who breed their mares even when they cannot sell the yearling from that mare's previous cover. If you have a farm for breeding, you have the mares but they do NOT have to be bred every year. It still costs money to feed and care for a barren mare, but add the expense of a stud fee, a pregnancy, delivery and possible complications to your annual costs of doing business and you have increased your operating costs but with no guarantee that that either the yearling OR the foal will sell In a crappy market. You do NOT keep adding to the surplus; you pare down, cut back and go slower until things begin to level out. It's also that horses present unique problems NOT associated with cat and dog  adoptions...area required for one (few horses are happy in an apartment on the Upper West Side), maintenance for another. I know what you're saying and the problem is huge, but I would rather put down both my horse and the donkey than send them to an auction. That's my job: to be responsible and NOT put my animals at risk. While nauseating and cold, euthanasia may be the only humane thing we can do for some of the great unwanted. We created them and it's our job to do the best we can for them. Rotten words, unhappy thoughts and miserable consequences.........BLAH! Now I'm back to the crummy way I felt yesterday. The truth is seldom pleasant.

BUT Gifted is with us, seems a touch happier, maybe a bit more comfortable, and since he's a Dynaformer, he's probably tough as a boot!! So you go get 'em, Gifted. Show 'em what you're made of!!

Cheers (I think!) and safe trips.

21 Dec 2010 11:49 AM
Dawn

Thank you for sharing his story.  Praying for a full recovery.

21 Dec 2010 11:59 AM
Leslie Crane

Thanks Three Chimneys for posting this story.  I sent a donation today.  Dyna King gave, gave, and gave and he was rewarded with cruelty.  Thank you Heart of Tuscon for making a difference.  I will keep Dyna King in my thoughts and prayers for a full recover.  If he is anything like his daddy, Big Bad Dynaformer, he will get through this.  Love to you all.

21 Dec 2010 12:02 PM
LACS70

Thank for sharing this story. Please keep us posted on how he's doing.

21 Dec 2010 12:36 PM
Renee in CT

This is so wrong, no horse deserves to live like this. Wishing Dyna King a new life full of love, caring and good people by his side. He is a very handsome boy.

Dyan King you can do it, we are all pulling for you. WE BELIEVE!

21 Dec 2010 12:40 PM
Mike Relva

HELLO GREG

As usal you have a talent of staying on top of current news. I'm very sorry to hear this and this is indeed the ugly side of racing that I hate. I'm getting ready to call now. Have a Merry Xmas!

21 Dec 2010 12:46 PM
JAJ

Cal Gal,

You misunderstand.  Of course all the foals of a stallion will be referred to as the sons and daughters of that stallion.

They will NOT be referred to as brothers and sisters.  Siblings (and  half siblings) share the same MOTHER, not father.

21 Dec 2010 1:13 PM
JAJ

Needler in Virginia,

I understand your point, but we are not dealing with genetics in a purely scientific manner.  We are looking at pedigrees.

A Street Cry daughter from my mare will not have the quality that a Street Cry daughter from Vertigineux will have.

It is the way the industry looks at pedigrees.  Blood-Horse is an industry magazine.  It is not hard to just accept that that's the jargon.

No one is denying that they get 50% of their genetic material from the same stallion.  They just aren't called brothers.

21 Dec 2010 1:23 PM
Billie

Greg! You did a great thing -- it's going out all over Facebook. Let's hope lots of donations come in.

21 Dec 2010 2:24 PM
Freetex

My donation is on the way and I will continue to add my support for Gifted.

This is the part of racing that I hate.  Responsible ownership is what is needed, period.  It is the same for all domestic animals.  Just think of the cats and dogs that are euthanized every year because of overbreeding and irresponsible ownership.  It must stop.  When are we going to wake up to the fact that we are in charge here and act accordingly.  Enough blabber, regulate the industry, require owners and subsequent owners of our thoroughbred athletes what is indeed "HUMANE", and morally right.

Where does it start?  

Thank God for people who care.

21 Dec 2010 2:40 PM
ruffianruns

My Dear Needler in Virginia -

Here's a {{{{big hug}}}} to help you feel more kind, warm, and fuzzy!

I just made my donation to Heart of Tucson.

All the best dear, beautiful Gifted / Dyna King.

21 Dec 2010 2:44 PM
Barbara W

This makes me physically sick! I am so revolted by "throw-away" people. Get rid of spare kids, get rid of spare dogs and cats, get rid of unwanted horses....I cannot even get in my head the IDEA of an unwanted horse. If someone breeds to get one, then he should make provision for his/her care!!!

Last summer, we found 3 abandoned puppies in the local cemetery. The shelters were full, so they became our responsibility. Our nation will be judged for this lack of attention to those for whom we have responsibility.

DynaKing is absolutely BEAUTIFUL. Who could not love him? I hope his story gains nationwide attention so that the good-for-nothing who put him in this plight comes to light and is made to take responsibility.

Before I REALLY blow my top, I'm putting my check in the mail. DynaKing and his caregivers will be in my prayers until he is well. Thank you all so much for helping.

21 Dec 2010 2:46 PM
Mary

Like I have said many times before, a stallion is only as great as the mare he is bred to.  A stallion delivers more genetic material to his daughters, than he does to his sons.  I don't care what kind of animal you are, the X chronosome carries more genetic material than the Y.

In answer to the question of half-siblings, a mare carries only a few foals in her lifetime.  A stallion sires maybe thousands of foals in his lifetime. That's why two horses by the same sire are not considered half siblings.    

21 Dec 2010 3:13 PM
C Bea

I feel for the horse and he deserves better. Unfortunately this will be the story that gets everyone's attention and get's the headlines and leaves our industry looking bad. Rather than countless countless other stories where people make sacrifice and selfless effort to push us forward positively.

The Tucson group should be properly recognized for their positive efforts here. At the same time please stop printing stories that provide the appearance of an Industry that doesn't care about it's stars or it's nominal participants. Because I just don't believe that to be true.

Bad examples of humanity exist in EVERY endeavor of life. Quit making it seem like horse racing people don't care.

21 Dec 2010 3:18 PM
Penny in TX

Barbara W, those are my sentiments exactly concerning children, dogs, cats and horses. Around 60 to 90 small animals are euthanized weekly in our small community. Something is bad wrong with this picture.

Greg J, thanks for the update on Dyna King/Gifted.

Happy Holidays to all!

21 Dec 2010 3:35 PM
needler in Virginia

ruffianruns, thanks for that; clearly I needed it! My grumpy factor is off the charts these days, especially in light of this story.

Can't even waste the time to answer JAJ as this sideways "reasoning" is stuff and and nonsense; genetics are genetics, and how TB breeders choose to define their product in no way resembles logic. That won't change, just as overbreeding won't change, nor will the casual way some breeders continue to fill sales rings with even more rns'a than we have already. Irresponsible? ABSOLUTELY! And Barbara W is right on the money with her comments regarding responsibility for those we CHOOSE to create. As dog breeders, we had an ABSOLUTE buy-back clause if, for ANY reason, the puppy/dog was unwanted, the dog came right back to us.  We exercised it twice and I wasn't sorry.......not for one minute. We also stopped breeding when it became apparent that there really was NO market for Golden Retrievers (in the 80's when Ford had the Presidential Golden, Liberty). For MOST horse breeders it seems there's another viewpoint...breed 'em, sell 'em, and forget 'em. Well, Gifted is the result of THAT method. Shame on them, but cheers (BIG TIME) for HEART, and Old Friends, and TCA, and CANTER and all the rest I can't remember right now.

Since my remarks about DNA, etc were off the topic, I apologize to everyone. Sorry I went off the rails, but I STILL, and always WILL, regard Gifted a half-brother to The Barbaro Gang. Not to put too fine a point on it, Thoroughbreds are so closely related all over the world that when one in Kentucky has itchy withers, another one in Australia reaches back to scratch. They're ALL related, perhaps more closely than is really comfortable for the breed.

OK, enough. Thanks to Greg for the story, thanks to everyone for listening, keep up the fine work and caring, and I hope everyone has a lovely holiday.

Cheers, safe trips and happy trails to Gifted.

21 Dec 2010 4:17 PM
sandieh

Greg, it must have been as heartbreaking for you to write this story as it is for us to read it. I am sure you had your tissues there. As another said, Dyna King or "Gifted" is also family. While some may disagree, God does bless those that suffer, animal or human. May Gifted be blessed with recovery to lead a comfortable life. Thank you so much for bringing this heartbreaking story to us and please let us know what will happen when he recovers. I will also send my donation.

Merry Christmas to ALL and best wishes for a healthy Happy New Year!

Roy and Gretchen Jackson, I can't find words deep enough to express the gratitude to you and connections for sharing news on The Brothers with us. Thank You, sincerely!

Nicky, Lennie, Margano, Babynor2, loads and loads of love, mints and carrots!

21 Dec 2010 4:48 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

I called this morning and was told Dyna King continues to improve. Also,I'm sending a donation and encourage everyone on this blog to do so,no matter how small. Left my number with the individual I spoke with to follow the progress.

21 Dec 2010 5:54 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

BTW,thanks very much for this story. If  there were more individuals like you,we would have less of this.

21 Dec 2010 6:05 PM
Kathy

Greg, would you ask the folks at Heart of Tucson how often a horse is rescued from the dogpatch area near Tucson? And do they have any idea how long Dyna King was there?

21 Dec 2010 6:40 PM
Barbara W

Needler--you are right on the money too! (If it will make you feel better, we got our Golden in 1987; sadly, she died of cancer at 10).

At the risk of being off topic, I think I'll share this blog with the folks on Zenyatta's website. I sent my donation for DynaKing in memory of Barbaro and in honor of Zenyatta.

21 Dec 2010 7:39 PM
Ivy77

This story really touched me.  I am an FOB and forgot to mention that when I mailed my donation today.  Thank you, Heart of Tucson, for your kindness and concern.  May Dyna-King make a beautiful recovery.  Please keep us posted.

21 Dec 2010 7:47 PM
Linda/Maryland

This is a wonderful story and very on base. This blood relative of our boys need our help in any way that we can. I have been donating to several horse rescues for several years and already saw the pictures and story of Gifted/Dyna King. I will be donating to the Heart of Tuson for him this week.

Merry Christmas, to everyone!! Thanks Greg for sharing this story. I hope that it helps him and many other horses who are forgotten.

21 Dec 2010 9:07 PM
rufys75

AWSOME JOB GREG.VERY NICE STORY.

21 Dec 2010 10:17 PM
Dona

In the cold light of day, this story just reminds us that as much as one would like to think the goverment should stay out of our business, it's plainly clear that that's not in the best interest of everyone.

I have posted many times that I think the racing/breeding industry should be made to share the revenues generated from the blood and sweat of the horse. Be it stallions, broodmares or offspring, it's simply a matter of if you can't afford it, you don't belong there.

I think a fund should be established for every foal the minute a financial transaction takes place. If it is sold, a percentage goes into the fund. If it races or is bred, same thing. In other words, kinda like social security and they could be identified by their name and tatoo number. Yes, this calls for some accounting and managerial personnel but if it's merged with the procedures used to distribute purse money it might not be that disruptive. Maybe it could be monitored in part by the auction houses and race tracks. No fund, you can't sell. No fund, you can't enter a race. Shut the door on the loose ends and be hard nose about it and we can lick this problem or do away with the majority of problems regarding the race horse.

These monies could be distributed to rescue facilities and retirement farms or create more if necessary but the money should be there when needed.

The idea that we humans can use animals for profit and then just euthanize them because it costs too much is not acceptable in any form what so ever and I will be the first in line to fight for the demise of racing if that practice doesn't cease. Some one mentioned Puerto Rico and I nearly threw up because we've seen videos of trainers killing a horse on the spot because they thought it didn't try hard enough. It's sickening. I personaly think we should push harder to do something about Puerto Rico's practices. Boycott them if necessary, someone has got to stand up for the animals.

I know there's a lot of intelligent people in the industry and there's a lot of hard heads also but it's time for solutions and not excuses. The old business as ususal is no longer acceptable.  

If we want to really honor Barbaro or Zenyatta or any other beloved horse, lets resolve this matter once and for all.  

21 Dec 2010 10:25 PM
jclson( Fan of NIcanor

HEY I WOULD LIKE TO SEND A DONATION BUT WHERE DO I SEND IT??? WE NEED TO HELP HIM. I WILL DO IT IN MEMORY OF BARBARO, EIGHT BELLS, AND ALL THE OTHERS THAT HAVE PASSED ON.

22 Dec 2010 12:01 AM
Greg J.

Thank You to everyone for your kind words and generosity, it is quite amazing.

The latest update on Dyna King/Gifted from Mia, one of the wonderful people at HEART of Tucson:

"I can't tell you how overwhelmed we are at HEART of Tucson with the warm comments and emails, but above all is the incredible generosity for Dyna King.  We want to thank all of you for your help.

We've been so busy lately and truly feeling the void with Judy on leave right now.  But I am here to update everyone on Dyna King's progress.  He's been with us for 9 days now, but today was the first time I was able to take a girth measurement.  He measured out at weighing 959 lbs.  We estimate he has put on weight since his arrival.  He stands about 16.1 hands.

Dyna King is receiving a special regiment of feed along with antibiotics and bute for the pain.  The vet was in to see him and x-rays were taken.  The utmost in farrier care is being done practically on a daily basis, a little at a time.  In fact his left front received an egg bar shoe today.  From a distance it looks normal.  But it will all take time.

His attitude is coming back.  Yesterday I was applying some Vetrecyn on his leg sores and he raised he back leg to me.  I was thrilled!  That meant he was able to put weight on his front hooves.

Today he was even more alert and walking a bit better, not crossing his front legs quite so much.  He still lifts his back legs as if he is walking over a log but doesn't seem to be in any pain in the hind quarters.

He's a trooper and quickly becoming part of the HEART family (volunteers, goats, cats, dogs, chickens, etc.) "

 

22 Dec 2010 12:13 AM
Barbara W

jcison--Just Google "Heart of Tucson". That will bring up their mailing address under "contact us".

22 Dec 2010 7:34 AM
Greg J.

Jclson,

I sent you an e-mail, but, if you didn't receive it, here is the link to HEART of Tucson's Dyna King page.  Click on the link, then in left margin, click on "donate".  Thank you very much!  Have a Merry Christmas!

Link to donate:

heartoftucson.org/DynaKing.html

Also, to those that have sent me a message saying they cannot see the video of Dyna King/Gifted because you are not a member of Facebook, a friend posted it on Youtube.  While extremely tough to watch, it is what inspired me to tell Dyna King/Gifted's story.  

Link to video on Youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch

22 Dec 2010 7:49 AM
Colmel

This son of Dynaformer looks very like another - Perfect Drift - who is a wonderful ambassador for the sport as the on-site racehorse at Churchill Downs at the Derby Museum. Drift is one of my all-time favorites but he had the extreme good fortune to have people who cared about him - from beginning to forever. A gelding, he could have had a much different story - just like this poor guy.

Thank you for bringing this story to light. I hope that Gifted can serve as a wake-up call to many in the industry and prove to be the impetus for doing more to care for horses in the future.

22 Dec 2010 10:32 AM
Marigold

Merry Christmas to everyone here and to the Matz family, the Brette family, the Jackson family, and to Big Daddy D, La Ville Rouge and the bros, Nic, Len, and Margano, as well as the Stephens.

22 Dec 2010 11:23 AM
lobieb

Greg:  Off the subject just a bit but since it is the season I thought maybe if this was posted on our site that we could help Old Friends and all it takes is a vote. One of the volunteers at Old Friends has a dog and has entered him with many many others for a prize of $2000.00 and that is for the dog who gets the most votes.  That volunteer is going to give to Old Friends the money if Audi wins. You can only vote once but every vote helps.  if you go to www.oldfriendsequine.com  you will find on the right hand side a picutre of Audi and Santa.  Click on the vote button and it will take you to the site.  There is a search for a dog on the right hand side of that site, enter Audi's name and it will bring up his picture and then click vote.  It just takes a couple of minutes and a great chance to help Old Friends with you vote if Audi wins. Many thanks.

22 Dec 2010 3:28 PM
Windy City

He's got the sweetest face I have ever seen in adult horse! He's fuzzy and short forelock makes him look like a big baby foal.....what a sweetheart! Thanks Greg for helping this poor and neglected horse; what you are doing for him is as important as direct help that he's in so desperate need! I just sent my Christmas gift to Gifted, they'll do much better use from this money than I would....

I really hope that he'll pull through, does anybody know if he's feet are "fixable"?? I hope that's nothing serious, but the pix are horrifying. In the moments like this I feel so ashamed to be a human :-( Can't humans behave humanly??

As for Gifted last owners....I will pray that they never experience such a treatment. I don't wish starving to death to my worse enemy. But I do believe that "what goes around - comes around", one way or the other. I'm sure life will pay them back at some point. I wish Everybody peaceful and full of love Holidays, and  as Greg said, may we never forget that the true Spirit of Christmas is giving.....

Merry Christmas, Olimpia

22 Dec 2010 4:38 PM
Ivy77

Thank you for the update on Dyna-KIng.  It is such a compelling story.  I will be back every day.

22 Dec 2010 8:39 PM
Greg J.

Update regarding Dyna King/Gifted's X-Rays:

"The X-Rays showed his right coffin bone has some rotation and some dissolving.  The left front was not quite as bad but showed some arthritis.  We are all hopeful that Dyna King will at least be able to live out his days as a companion horse and possibly retire in the fields of Kentucky and not on our harsh ground."

22 Dec 2010 10:16 PM
Penny in TX

Greg thanks for the update. My prayer are with this sweet horse.

22 Dec 2010 11:06 PM
needler in Virginia

NOT the greatest of news, Greg, but softer ground will certainly help that coffin. You know you really DON'T have to aim for Kentucky; just in case folks has failed to notice, there are some pretty spectacular horse farms in California where grass is plentiful and the ground is softer than in Arizona.... anyone out there with an empty acre or two? Anyone out there with a field of retired geldings or in need of a GREAT pasture ornament?? Just look at THAT FACE........HOW can you say "no" to that face?

Hope my donation helped, but I know every penny does, so go get 'em, Gifted........we're with you all the way.

Happy holidays to all, cheers and safe trips.

22 Dec 2010 11:35 PM
NorthStar326

To quote just one of JAJ's posts:

"I'm going to go out on a limb here and put forward some of the issues surrounding unwanted horses which is what Dyna King is.

The basic problem is there are more horses than there are homes for them.  It is not just a Thoroughbred problem, but one of all horses.  What do you do with them when no one wants them?

Euthanasia.  Quick, painless but expensive.  Not only is the procedure expensive, but there is the cost of removing the body.

Rehoming.  Not feasible as there are too many horses and too few homes.  Horses are very expensive to keep unlike a cat or a dog.  They require a LOT of vet work and routine maintenance dogs and cats never need.  They require their own buildings, large fenced areas and equipment.  They are not cheap.

Retirement homes.  While a nice idea in theory, they are unlikely to work in the long run as they become filled with permanent residents who for reasons of health or temperament are not candidates for finding a new home.  Once filled, a rescue cannot bring in any new horses in need of a home.  Retirement homes are also magnets for animal hoarders.  There have been many cases recently in the news of "rescues" being charged with animal abuse.

In the past, slaughter was one solution.  Horses that were no longer wanted could be disposed of easily.  Nothing has replaced this solution.  Slaughter is still an option, but the horses are shipped either to Canada or to Mexico which only adds to their misery.  I believe Canada will be enacting new rules (they might already be in effect) that will disallow horses for slaughter who have had certain drugs (which every racehorse has had) within the past 6 months of slaughter.  That will mean all Thoroughbreds destined for slaughter will end up going to Mexico.

Some people are simply turning their horses loose and it is on the increase.  In Puerto Rico, there is a program at the racetrack where for $25 you can euthanise your horse.  The goal is to prevent people just turning loose racehorses who are finished their racing careers.  Turning a horse loose even in tropical Puerto Rico means eventual starvation for the horse.

I suspect Dyna King was one such horse.  He has bad teeth, so has not be able to eat.  Even if he could eat well, he is a Thoroughbred and they are not known for being easy to keep--they need grain supplemented to a pasture diet.  I don't think there was much of a pasture where Dyana King was found.  Dyana King might have been in perfect condition when an owner did what they thought was the best solution, which was to turn him loose.

I saw the video of him hobbling in the paddock.  That's how lame a horse gets with even a minor stone bruise that has abscessed, which is a very common minor injury.  If Nicanor had an abscess, that's how lame he would be.  Let's not confuse acute lameness for long term abuse.  It makes for good PETA-type video, though.

His feet look like they could be a couple of things.  Most likely, he has a poor foot that is common to Thoroughbreds.  The heel is not strong enough to support the foot and the structures of the hoof wall end up crushed.  As time goes on, the heels keep crushing (and not growing) while the toe grows, giving this long toe, low heel hoof conformation.  It requires expert farrier's care, something Dyna King lacked.  The abscesses are common in horses, particularly horses with thin, shelly hooves.

I've asked if he suffers from chronic laminitis.  I wondered if the reason he has the foot abscesses was because of coffin bone rotation where the coffin bone rotates and comes through the sole of the foot.

The solution to the unwanted horse problem is very complex.  Closing slaughtering facilities does not solve the problem.  It it still there.JAJ 21 Dec 2010 7:00 AM "[end quote]

JAJ, as knowledgable as you try to appear, your lack of responsibility to the horse you know so much about just astounds me.  People like you are why racing is dying, as well it should.

If one can afford to breed and train a horse, they can afford to give it a dignified life and death.  END OF SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEM!!!  STOP WITH THE EXCUSES! They show your ignorance and arrogance.

I'm a RESPONSIBLE Thoroughbred Owner and Breeder who would rather live without a new car or even a new pair of shoes, rather than let any of my horses go without a humane existence or ending.

22 Dec 2010 11:39 PM
Lou in TX

Greg...thanks for the update. Hopefully he will be able to be pain free and his feet will heal completely. My wish is that he can remain with someone who really loves and cares for him.  He deserves a happy home. He has the soft pretty eyes like the brothers and a beautiful face. God helped him when he was in dire need. He will continue to watch over him.

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A BLESSED NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

22 Dec 2010 11:42 PM
Dona

NorthStar326.

Thank you.  I too was just blown away at JAJ comments about euthanasia.

To think that someone is on the Barbaro site and would even suggest putting a horse down because it's too difficult or expensive to take care of them is appalling.

Thank you for echoing what I have said all along, take care of them or get out of the business because you don't belong in the industry.

What business allows such behaviour? It is just sickening.

Retirement homes for horses are not hoarders and even if some were, all the more reason why the program needs supervision with the authority to fine or jail abusers. To say they don't work because of problems is just another excuse not to do what is right. we need to contact our representatives and demand action. All you lawyers out there could help come up with a good recomendation to start with. Petitions could be sent to the NRA and Jockey Club demanding action. Something to start this in motion.

Let's say this could be Dyna Kings Gift for all the ex-race horses in his predictament and go from there. Bless his soul, I hope he makes it.

I saw this evening a story out of Arkansas about the removal of 117 horses from a farm because of neglect. There were dead bodies of animals lying around and the rest were in all kinds of horrible condition. This story is not new but the thing that made me scream even more was the report that this was a seven month long investigation! How many horses died before this Sheriff decided on the facts? What proof could they possible have needed to step in and save those poor animals? I don't know, I think I'm beginning to choke on the words Merry Christmas.

23 Dec 2010 2:45 AM
AngelaFromAbilene

JAJ- For what it's worth, I agree with you.  I've said the same thing for years.

23 Dec 2010 7:12 AM
JAJ

Dona and NorthStar 326,

You misunderstood my post.  I was outlining some of the issues involved in the unwanted horse problem.

There is no simple solution, which was what I was trying to show.

NorthStar 326, that is very noble that you would do without a new car or new shoes to ensure your horses were fed, but what if you don't have ANY money, no credit and the feed store will only accept cash from you?  What do you do if your children don't have food?  Some of these people are in that very position.

It all comes down to money--who is going to pay for it?

Please don't think it wrong to take a dollar and cents bottom-line approach to the problem because all problems boil down to money.  Look at the health-care situation in the US--it is all about money.  The rich tax payers don't want to fund the poor (and I'm including the shrinking middle class in here as well).  If people's lives are decided by a bottom-line methodology, so too will horses' lives.  Sadly, that is the reality of the US economy.

Many of these horses end up in this sad state because the current owners don't have the money to pay for them any longer, especially recently with the economy in such bad shape.

I pointed out some of the problems that using rescues as a solution have, namely that they become (over) filled with permanent residents such as Dyna King.  It cannot be the only solution.  (Dona, I didn't say they don't work, only that they do have their own set of problems associated with them.)  

To suggest the breeder is ultimately responsible is naive, although I agree breeders must be more responsible in their breeding decisions to ensure their foals have the best shot of living a very long and happy life.

Certainly, the current owner absolutely 100% responsible.

Many different facets of the equine industry are working to solve this problem.

There are countless programs being started to help the retired racehorse transition to another career.  My own racetrack does a lot with a group called Longrun.  More tracks need to do more, that is for sure, but change is coming.

The American Association of Equine Practitioners is also looking at what they, as a part of the industry, can do to eliminate the unwanted horse problem.

By the way, the thoughts I presented to the group were taken from an article on Unwanted Horses that appeared in The Horse (a sister publication to B-H) or Blood-Horse itself written by the American Association of Equine Practitioners.  Don't tell me that group doesn't have horses as their primary concern.

The unwanted horse problem is a very, very complex problem.  Complicating it is that people with no involvement in the industry want a say in it.  There are pros and cons to having non-industry people involved in decisions and policy.

23 Dec 2010 9:22 AM
Chris K

A very Merry Christmas to every one and a Blessed New Year.  A big thank you to Greg J for taking over this blog and keeping us updated on the brothers.  This means so much to us.

May 2011 bring lots of wins for our boys and hopefully we may see Margano racing and get to meet the new foal in the spring.

God Bless everyone and esp. our Nicky, Lenny, Margano, Mama La  Ville and her baby, Papa Dynaformer and the Jacksons, the Matzs and and all those who take care of these wonderfull horses.

23 Dec 2010 1:26 PM
jclson(fan of Nicanor

Greg I got the email Thank you the donations is on the way. Merry Christmas

23 Dec 2010 2:20 PM
Penny in TX

Wishing everyone a very safe, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Here's wishing Dyna King/Gifted the very best.

Any information on how our boys are doing, especially Margano and LVR?

23 Dec 2010 3:36 PM
AcesNKings

Dyna King should not have had to go through that and whoever did that should feel guilt and be fined and maybe some prison time. This was a very touching story, I hope that he will be okay and live the rest of his days in happiness not suffering.

23 Dec 2010 5:54 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

FYI,I had a conversation today with the director of the place where Dyna King is currently. She feels he's making progress and the outlook is good. She requested that I email her,which I did with information regarding two options which I suggested that's in Kentucky.

23 Dec 2010 8:07 PM
Donna

Sadly this happens all the time. The race horsing industry needs to step up and take responsibility for allowing this to happen....for allowing owners to dump, degrade and throw away these beautiful animals. Why can't a certain percentage of purses be put aside for use for retired horses?? A horse social security? Why aren't owners and trainers held accountable?? Not only monetary, but jail time, loss of licenses, and made to pay for the rehabilitation of the horses they used and abused, then abandoned when they served no purpose.

Maybe one day.

23 Dec 2010 8:59 PM
Greg J.

Hello all, here is another update from Mia at HEART of Tucson regarding Dyna King/Gifted:

"Thank you and everyone from the bottom of my HEART.  Judy is overwhelmed by the incredible charity and now she can be rest assured that Dyna King will not want or wait for any necessary treatments while she is away.

Today was another sign of improvement.  One of our volunteers brought Dyna King one of those pressed treat balls that you hang in their stalls.  Well today he finally started playing with it and eating it.  He's beginning to spend more time on his feet too."

Another promising day for Dyna King on his long road to recovery. Once again, I want to Thank everyone for opening your hearts and helping Dyna King!  Bravo!

23 Dec 2010 9:56 PM
JAJ

Donna,

There is a LOT being done in the industry towards helping solve the unwanted horse problem.

Some tracks are banning anyone who sends a horse to slaughter directly or indirectly, and that includes sending them to certain auctions.

I believe many of your suggestions will be acted on in the not-too-distant future.

The unwanted horse problems affects horses of many breeds, not just Thoroughbreds.  I think statistically, Thoroughbreds are better off than other breeds and grade horses, but I can't back it up although I did read it in an article in The Horse, I believe.

Many trainers and owners do a really good job rehoming their horses.  Adena Springs has a program specifically for rehoming their horses--go check out their web site.  Nick Zito's wife attaches a big sticker on the back of the horse's registration papers that if ever this horse is in need of a home, to call her.

It is a huge problem that won't be solved quickly or easily but, believe me, the industry is taking it seriously.  They are working on it.

23 Dec 2010 9:56 PM
Linda/Maryland

I am in Maryland but he can come live on my farm!

24 Dec 2010 4:58 AM
Ivy77

Thanks, Mia, for the update.

24 Dec 2010 5:49 AM
Mike Relva

GREG

Thanks for your most recent update. Merry Xmas!

24 Dec 2010 9:34 AM
Ragsy

Hey Mary,

You won Baby Barbaro Beanie because my lines were cut just got on line today......Yes, I will donate what you paid for Baby Barbaro to Dyna King.  God Bless you!!   And anyone that loves horses.....

24 Dec 2010 3:05 PM
Ragsy

All breeders should be held accountable for horses that they bred..period....just like dogs and cats...period....

24 Dec 2010 3:16 PM
Ragsy

Hey GregJ

Do you have a mailing address for Dyna King donation?  Thanks!!

24 Dec 2010 4:28 PM
Dona

JAJ,

Your comment about people wanting a say so about the unwanted horse problem that are not in the industry is a bit smug and elitist in my opinion. Do you think that only industry people are donating to Dyna King? I don't have anything to do with people having children they can't and in some instances won't take care of but my tax dollar goes to welfare as does everybodys. Yes, and everybodys tax dollar and donation goes for the SPCA that address this problem and in most cases are being over whelmed by it!

The racing industry has had hundreds of years to do something and here we set today, worse off than ever. No, very little gets done by only those involved and in most cases they have to be compelled and especially when money is at stake.  

I fully understand that many owners and breeders are responsible business people and do what's right for their charges but that's not the majority or we wouldn't be writing about it and enough people would step in and help eliminate those that don't oblige from their midst.

The problem is the old mentality that people can do what they want because want to and to hell with everybody else. Laws and regulations are needed because of that kind of thinking. Where would we be without oversight in all business matters? In a mess like the deregulated Banking industry, like the Drug industry today because the rules and regulations regarding testing have been relaxed and the people overseeing the process are paid in part by that industry. Who thought up that wonderful idea? Congress with their drug industry donations, that's who.

How about the mining industry? Get as much as possible or cost effective and then walk away, leaving their mess for the taxpayers and if someones sues, it takes years and usually ends up being absorbed by the people "not" in the industry.

So much for your comment.

I just watched and heard an editorial on the weather channel and believe me if I was standing in front of that man I thing I would punch his lights out! His comment that yes, poor manatees need help but why not use that money to help poor people! Well, those poor mantees didn't cause their plight, man did. Those poor manatee don't have anyone but us and their numbers are dwindling because of us. Just another case of mans' arrogance. There's billions of us and less than two thousand of them but oh, lets help the over populated earth destroying man so he can continue life as usual. How stupid!

Take one years profit fron Haliburton or Parsons and you could problably over ome hunger but no let's take the meager funds for manatees and not even make a dent but mean while wipe out a species. Make sense?      

24 Dec 2010 5:18 PM
Ragsy

GregJ

I found the address, Thank You!!!

Donna your comments are so right..

Dyna King reminds me of Lentenor the baby..such a sweety.  I did see where Colmel thought he looked like Perfect Drift, so I looked his picture up and sure enough he could be his brother in looks..he's half way there anyways...

Even if racing does not recognize the sire side for relatives I find them brothers anyway..enough of the correct bs..sounds like our political correctness govt.  Words are cheap without action.

"who's dat" on my roof top, dang it was a squirrel.

24 Dec 2010 10:56 PM
Windy City

I know this story may be little "cheesy", but in the spirit of Christmas......

"BECAUSE OF LOVE

A brother and sister had made their usual hurried, obligatory pre-Christmas visit to the little farm where dwelt their elderly parents with their small herd of horses.  The farm was where they had grown up and had been named Lone Pine Farm because of the huge pine, which topped the hill behind the farm.  Through the years the tree had become a talisman to the old man and his wife, and a landmark in the countryside.  The young siblings had fond memories of their childhood here, but the city hustle and bustle added more excitement to their lives, and called them away to a different life.

The old folks no longer showed their horses, for the years had taken their toll, and getting out to the barn on those frosty mornings was getting harder, but it gave them a reason to get up in the mornings and a reason to live.  They sold a few foals each year, and the horses were their reason for joy in the morning and contentment at day's end.

Angry, as they prepared to leave, the young couple confronted the old folks "Why do you not at least dispose of “The Old One."  She is no longer of use to you.  It's been years since you've had foals from her.  You should cut corners and save so you can have more for yourselves.  How can this old worn out horse bring you anything but expense and work?  Why do you keep her anyway?"

The old man looked down at his worn boots, holes in the toes, scuffed at the barn floor and replied, " Yes, I could use a pair of new boots.

His arm slid defensively about the Old One's neck as he drew her near with gentle caressing he rubbed her softly behind her ears.  He replied softly, "We keep her because of love.  Nothing else, just love.

Baffled and irritated, the young folks wished the old man and his wife a Merry Christmas and headed back toward the city as darkness stole through the valley.

The old couple shook their heads in sorrow that it had not been a happy visit.  A tear fell upon their cheeks.  How is it that these young folks do not understand the peace of the love that filled their hearts?

So it was, that because of the unhappy leave-taking, no one noticed the insulation smoldering on the frayed wires in the old barn.  None saw the first spark fall.  None but the "Old One".

In a matter of minutes, the whole barn was ablaze and the hungry flames were licking at the loft full of hay.  With a cry of horror and despair, the old man shouted to his wife to call for help as he raced to the barn to save their beloved horses.  But the flames were roaring now, and the blazing heat drove him back.  He sank sobbing to the ground, helpless before the fire's fury.  His wife back from calling for help cradled him in her arms, clinging to each other, they wept at their loss.

By the time the fire department arrived, only smoking, glowing ruins were left, and the old man and his wife, exhausted from their grief, huddled together before the barn.  They were speechless as they rose from the cold snow covered ground.  They nodded thanks to the firemen, as there was nothing anyone could do now.  The old man turned to his wife, resting her white head upon his shoulders as his shaking old hands clumsily dried her tears with a frayed red bandana.  Brokenly he whispered, "We have lost much, but God has spared our home on this eve of Christmas.  Let us gather strength and climb the hill to the old pine where we have sought comfort in times of despair.  We will look down upon our home and give thanks to God that it has been spared and pray for our beloved most precious gifts that have been taken from us.

And so, he took her by the hand and slowly helped her up the snowy hill as he brushed aside his own tears with the back of his old and withered hand; the journey up the hill was hard for their old bodies in the steep snow.

As they stepped over the little knoll at the crest of the hill, they paused to rest; looking up to the top of the hill the old couple gasped and fell to their knees in amazement at the incredible beauty before them.  Seemingly, every glorious, brilliant star in the heavens was caught up in the glittering, snow-frosted branches of their beloved pine, and it was aglow with heavenly candles.  And poised on its top most bough, a crystal crescent moon glistened like spun glass.  Never had a mere mortal created a Christmas tree such as this.  They were breathless as the old man held his wife tighter in his arms.

Suddenly, the old man gave a cry of wonder and incredible joy.  Amazed and mystified, he took his wife by the hand and pulled her forward.  There, beneath the tree, in resplendent glory, a mist hovering over and glowing in the darkness was their Christmas gift.

Shadows glistening in the night; bedded down about the "Old One" close to the trunk of the tree, was the entire herd, safe.  At the first hint of smoke, she had pushed the door ajar with her muzzle and had led the horses through it.  Slowly and with great dignity, never looking back, she had led them up the hill, stepping cautiously through the snow.  The foals were frightened and dashed about.  The skittish yearlings looked back at the crackling, hungry flames, and tucked their tails under them as they licked their lips and hopped like rabbits. The mares that were in foal with a new years crop of babies, pressed uneasily against the "Old One" as she moved calmly up the hill and to safety beneath the pine. And now she lay among them and gazed at the faces of the old man and his wife.  Those she loved she had not disappointed.  Her body was brittle with years, tired from the climb, but the golden eyes were filled with devotion as she offered her gift---Because of love.  Only Because of love. flowed as the old couple shouted their praise and joy... And again the peace of love filled their hearts. Based on the true story"

I'm not sure if that is indeed based on true story, but neither the less, too moving to not to forward :-) Merry Christmas to Everyone!

24 Dec 2010 10:58 PM
Greg J.

Windy City,

Thank You...

24 Dec 2010 11:23 PM
Greg J.

Just wanted to take a moment and wish everyone a very Merry Christmas!

Dyna King/Gifted, just two weeks ago, he was suffering, lost, alone, and barely able to walk.  Now, on Christmas morning, as he continues his long road to recovery, he will wake up in a clean stall surrounded by people that love and admire him for his will to live.  That is what Christmas is all about, people giving with nothing asked in return.  Dyna King is a living example that Christmas miracle's do exist!

This story was just sent to me, I hope everyone clicks on the link and takes a few minutes to read this beautiful and heartwarming story!  Merry Christmas!

"Grandpa Joe and Secretariat: A Christmas story" by Roger Ebert

blogs.suntimes.com/.../grandpa_joe_and_secretariat_a.html

24 Dec 2010 11:48 PM
stardustyrose

Hey everyone.  I have not been here in a long time.  Miss you all.:(  I made a video for you all from ♥Barbaro♥.  He thanks you all for all of the wonderful work you have done to help his friends....

~~~Merry Christmas  Love ♥Barbaro♥

www.youtube.com/watch

♥Dynaformer♥LVR♥Barbaro♥Nicanor♥Lentenor♥Marganor♥Filly in the oven♥  Merry Christmas to you all~~~~~~~

25 Dec 2010 4:45 AM
JAJ

Merry Christmas everyone!  This is NOT going to be a nice Christmas post.  I'm sorry.  I ask everyone to hear what I am trying to say rather than jump to conclusions and respond emotionally.

Dona,

If you and I were talking face to face, you would realize I am on the same side you are.  Please, believe me when I say that.

As far as my being smug or elitist--I wasn't.  I was only pointing out that those who have no investment in the industry wanting a say in the solution is a complicating factor.  There are both pros and cons to having non-industry people having a voice.  Personally, I think there are more pros than cons as long as PETA doesn't get involved.  

The EQUINE industry, not just the racing industry, had the unwanted horse problem solved until very recently.  Before animal rights people got involved and banned slaughter there were no unwanted horses.  You may not like that solution.  I didn't, that's for sure.  I certainly will do everything in my power to prevent my own horses or horses I bred but no longer own ever going to slaughter, but not everyone feels like you and I.

The US is in the midst of an evolutionary change in their value system.  What happened 50 or even 20 years ago is no longer acceptable, but you cannot look back and change retroactively change society's value system.  Finding new solutions to an old problem will take time and money.  It will be a many faceted solution.

When the US was founded, it was acceptable to own, sell, (and probably kill) slaves.  The day they wrote those famous words, We, the people....." they were not talking about ALL the people.  It is no longer acceptable to own slaves anywhere in the world.  That is a fundamental change in humanity's value system.  Remember slavery has been a part of most civilizations since the beginning of time.  Women can now own property.  They can vote.  Women and children are no longer considered to be property under the law.  Animals now are protected by law from cruelty and neglect.  Those are big changes that happened in the past 100 years, less than 200 if you include slavery.

At this point, horse slaughter is not acceptable to the ethics of enough people that slaughtering horses has been stopped in the US.  Slaughter has been removed as an option for unwanted horses, but nothing has replaced it.  That's why we have such a big unwanted horse problem today.

Maybe we need to look at making slaughter more humane (for all animals!!!!).  I've never understood how animal lovers can feel it is okay to slaughter cattle, but not horses.  If it is cruel to slaughter horses, then it is just as cruel to slaughter cattle, chickens and sheep.  But, that is another topic and I hope we don't go there.

Now that slaughter doesn't happen on US soil, horses destined for slaughter have a much harder time of it being shipped to Mexico or Canada.  While Canada will have as many anti-cruelty laws as the US, I can't say that about Mexico.  Slaughter still happens, just not on US soil.

I disagree with you STRONGLY that the majority of owners/breeders/trainers in the Thoroughbred industry do not live up to there responsibility to the horses they own.  The vast MAJORITY do take care of their horses.

Think of it logically and you will have to agree with me.  Think of the numbers of Thoroughbreds that are of racing age--over 40,000 foals a year have been produced for many years.  If the majority didn't take care of their horses, over 20,000 Thoroughbreds alone who needed help would be added to the unwanted horse population.  That would be over twenty thousand NEW Thoroughbred horses EVERY single year who need help.  There just aren't that many Thoroughbreds needing help.

The industry is just not as bad as you paint it to be.  This perception of a negligent/greedy/abusive industry is false.  Certainly, there are individual cases of abuse, etc., within the industry but they are not the norm, and there are laws against it.  There are individual cases of abuse of pets and children by pet owners and parents alike, but that doesn't mean the majority of pet owners and parents are abusive.

I hope that all who read this will actually read what I wrote and not ascribe a position to me that I didn't say or believe in.  It is early and I hope I wrote what I meant to say.  Please give me the benefit of the doubt, and believe that I have the welfare of all horses first and foremost in my thoughts and actions.

Merry Christmas everyone.

25 Dec 2010 8:32 AM
LouAnn Cingel of Union, Missouri

God bless this horse and may God heal him and place him in his forever home with all the comforts of life that he so much deserves!

Lots of Blessings & Love to this fella!

25 Dec 2010 11:04 AM
Ragsy

Windy City

Thank You for that story of love on this Blessed day.

JAJ

What a bunch of pro slaughter bs  on Christmas Day...put a little love in your heart surrounded with a touch of compassion then you might realize whats wrong with slaughter.

I am a vegetarian after watching video's of barbaric cruelty and abuse of horse's,poultry and cattle at slaughter.  It's past time to end that practice.  

25 Dec 2010 11:10 AM
JAJ

Ragsy,

Do you drink milk, eat cheese or eggs?

Do you use any leather?

Do you have a dog or a cat?

It is a complex issue.

25 Dec 2010 11:35 AM
Kathy

Merry Christmas and Merry Holidays,

JAJ,

I figured out a long time ago that you were a softy where horses were concerned, and when you spoke of slaughter issues involves horses; you were speaking for a lot/some of the horse community. However, most people have not read your posts as long as I have. I believe Dona is an exception to the rule and is just voicing her opinion.

My take on slaughter of horses is that it just shouldn’t happen. I actually saw a horse slaughtered on a sports news show on a premium cable channel. They had gone undercover at one of the low budget racetrack and followed a horse(s) from last racetrack race to slaughter. The slaughterhouse was only equipped for cows and as horses are bigger; this horse was tortured all the way down the chute. I will never forget the sight or sound. It was horrendous.

Growing up in the midwest, I distinctly remember news reports of horses abused even though horse slaughter was still legal. There are people that are simply not nice. (In other words, if you don’t have money for hay, you go to a neighbor on different section and ask for a handout. It is not rocket science.

And I am wondering if there are food banks for people, why they don’t have hay banks for horses and other livestock.

I personally believe that if a horse transports you somewhere, wins/earns or at least tries to win/earn you money, the animal in question should rate a cut above other livestock. I have the distinct impression that horses are slaughtered because it is cheaper than euthanasia, not because the dead horse feeds the world’s population.

Cows/heifers/steers etc. are breed for the specific purpose of feeding the populace. Horses are not. I personally have gone from eating beef 28 days of the month; in my youth, to about 5 days. Horses are full of bute, antibiotics and Furosemide, why would anyone want to eat the meat anyway?

I also personally root for the cow/heifer/steer that busts loose from a slaughterhouse. There has got to be an animal attitude that distinctly has the mentality...oh hell no, when someone say...you have to die.

This is my take...for whatever it is worth.

And JAJ, I don't take what you say personally, as  I believe you are speaking for the many as opposed to just you.

25 Dec 2010 11:56 AM
KenzeeNMore

How happy that horse looked in his racing years and how pain stricken and sad he must have been in those four years. I am afraid I cannot give a donation but if I could I would give all  the money I could to help Dyna King, I ride at a school and I ride a horse named Concho who before being donated to the program was broken harshly and abused. IT hurts him forever and I hope that he and Dyna King will soon forget all thats happened to himself.

25 Dec 2010 12:03 PM
Ragsy

Thank You,  JAJ

I do not eat eggs,cheese or drink milk,( take supplements)  nor, do I wear leather or use leather when working with the dogs. My dogs are well cared for and their diets do not consist of those things and they are quite healthy. They too are veggie lovers.

Yes, it is a complex problem,  people have to stop overbreeding (which includes all breeds) to begin with, then work on solving this massive problem.

I have seen the multitudes of racehorses in the past, sent to auction straight from the track and yes, thats ah changing but only with great pressure.

Senator Coburn told me that when the slaughter plants closed in America we would see worse barbarism and cruelty occurring with slaughter in Mexico and Canada and he was right, USA was no better.

One thought, we may need everyone of those horses when our economic collapse occurs.

have a good day!

25 Dec 2010 1:05 PM
JAJ

Kathy,

Thank you for not going ballistic on me.  I am a softy for ALL animals, including the chickens, cows and fish destined for the food table.  It hurts me to have people on this blog think I am somehow evil for presenting more of the picture than many know even exists.

I respect your position that horse slaughter shouldn't happen.

I am sorry you saw the video of a horse slaughtered cruelly.  It needn't be a cruel process.

I think I related this story to the blog before, but it bears repeating.  I was having lunch with a Danish friend who had owned many show horses as well as a lot of high class racehorses in Denmark.  This was a woman who loved her horses.

During the conversation it somehow came up that horses were not slaughtered in the US.  She looked at me in shock and asked, well, what do you do with them when they are too injured, too infirm or in whatever condition that a KIND AND LOVING owner would euthanize a horse.

She related the story of how when her beloved show pony was in such condition that euthanizing it was the kindest thing she could do for it, she booked an appointment with the local abattoir.  She had a groom go with the pony which was shipped the same way it would be shipped to a show.  The groom held the pony while it was humanely killed.  If you're going to die anyway, that is not a bad way to go.

Slaughter as it is now is horrendous but I don't think it needs to be.

Kathy, I too have reduced my consumption of animal products.  I will always pay a lot more animal products that are raised and slaughtered more humanely, such as free range chicken eggs, etc.  I wish more were available.

25 Dec 2010 1:11 PM
Ragsy

Thank You, GregJ

What a great story of love and compassion towards a family with a member's dying wish fulfulled.

A great story..

25 Dec 2010 1:27 PM
Windy City

Jaj,

Deep inside I feel that you're on the "good" side. And now I'm giving you a {{{{{{huge hug}}}}}}}} just to stop you from going to the cattle/pigs and chickens issue :-)  You as a breeder/owner you may wear blinders on some issues, which is understandable.  The major problem is that people are using horses to make money and when they are not needed any longer, they just  get rid of them at the lowest possible cost. And that's the problem. They don't take an effort to make sure their horses have a chance of a good future.

I do realize that we are talking of minority of owners, but still, one "bad apple" can make 1000 good ones look bad.....I know that times are tough and everyone is trying to make ends meet, but with all respect to the small breeders, people who are not able to financially support horse during and AFTER his racing days shouldn't be allowed to own/breed horses. It's not right that people who are taking loans to breed their mare or to  buy a foal and then hope that they just got Triple Crown Winner who will pay off all their debt. Then they realize that the horse can't live up to their expectations and they can't afford to keep non-winner so they dispose of him to make a place for the "next one". Does anybody see what's wrong with this picture?  If "small breeders" (the ones without good history of owning/rehoming their horses) are to stay in this sport, they should be under close supervision to follow up how they handle their horses when they are no longer money makers. Harsher penalties would also be helpful...

Merry Christmas form very Windy and snowy City!

25 Dec 2010 1:52 PM
Windy City

Jaj,

I do agree 110% with you that any animals that is severely injured should be saved from the misery and euthanized. However we are talking about horses being euthanized ONLY because they are not wanted by their owners anymore .....and rehoming them would be too much hassle and money for those people.....

25 Dec 2010 2:00 PM
Stephanie

This is the plight of so many racehorses, ...sigh....I am always left speachless by it ....

25 Dec 2010 3:10 PM
JAJ

Windy City, if a horse is sound with nothing too bad wrong with them, they can usually find a home.

The biggest problem comes with horses that are not sound and can never be made into decent riding horses.  Those are the real problems rehoming and they fill up the rescues.

25 Dec 2010 9:55 PM
Kathy

I've been surfing as it is boring at work tonight.

I found a photo on the internet I've never seen before of Dynaformer gussied up heading out for a hot date.

s657.photobucket.com/.../troublesniffer

He seems pretty mild manner in this photo all things considered.

25 Dec 2010 11:51 PM
JAJ

Windy City,

You wrote about me, "You as a breeder/owner you may wear blinders on some issues, which is understandable."

If I'm wearing any blinkers at all, they are really small "cheaters" not big full-cup ones.  My views on Thoroughbred rescue are no different than my views on dog and cat rescue.

I, too, would find it abhorrent to euthanize a perfectly good, useful horse.  I do know there are some owners or trainers who will do that sort of thing, but I believe they are a very small number.

I agree that the industry must find these people and do something to make it so uncomfortable for them that they change their ways or are forced out of the business.  I am proud of the way all the horsemen and Woodbine officials dealt with the Wake At Noon fiasco.  Bruno Schickedanz is still banned from Woodbine and I am sure will be until the day he dies.

www.thestar.com/.../831568--wake-at-noon-owner-trainer-barred

If you have a racehorse and for whatever reason the horse needs to move on to a new career, I believe you as an owner are obligated to find it a new home.

I want to see more help for people like me to "do the right thing" and find my retired horses good homes.  This is where I think rehoming organizations can help, but they are being over filled with horses who will never be rehomed because of chronic unsoundness.

I would like to see more unemotional triage being applied in rescues.  If the horse cannot be rehabilitated, then they should be euthanized.  We don't need rescues filled with hopeless cases when we have so many hopeful cases not being addressed.  Rescues should have a revolving door policy--horses are only admitted if there is the expectation they can be successfully rehomed.

Which brings us to Dyna King.  I suspect his prognosis is very poor.  Not only does he have chronic laminitis, he has it so bad the coffin bone has separated from the structures that attach it to the hoof wall.  His coffin bone has rotated and is disintegrating.  It might have actually gone through the sole, and if it hasn't, that is where it is headed.  The costs of rehabbing this horse are pretty high with very little chance of any long-term success.  I believe he will be in pain, sometimes excruciating pain, until the day he dies. If he were my horse, I would euthanize him in a heart beat, not because of the cost of maintaining him but because he would have a VERY poor quality of life.

Obviously, I haven't spoken to his farrier or his vet, but the rotation and the disintegration of the coffin bone are enough for me to suspect what I wrote above is true.

My question to the rescue, is why are you putting so much of your scarce resources into what I suspect is a hopeless case?  I have to question the fiscal responsibility and the judgment of that rescue.

Those are hard questions that need to be asked, not just of this particular rescue, but all rescues.

26 Dec 2010 7:55 AM
Sandra in Lexington

Merry Christmas!  One of the gifts that I gave to myself was to send donations to Old Friends and Heart of Tucson.  I would love to be a Thoroughbred Owner, but I know that I cannot afford the expense.  It's not a hobby you pick up and discard.  I just don't know when folks are going to become responsible adults.  Prosecution to the fullest extent of the law would be a good start.  Blessings to everyone.  Thank you, BloodHorse, for this story and for letting everyone voice their opinions.

26 Dec 2010 11:18 AM
my comment on rescue

I have rescued 7 horses.  It was expensive, frustrating and time consuming.  all lived happily ever after although the oldest mare has now been euthanized for cancer, and two others who have few teeth left are unlikely to see next winter. tough when you enter rescue at age 18+.  others have been trained under saddle and are now a school horse, endurance horses or therapy horse. it costs a fortune for teeth and farrier care to rehabilitate rescues.  not to mention labor, feed and vet expenses.  would I do it again - not likely.  those 7 have cost me close to $20,000 and I lost money selling those I could to insure good homes.  the ones in poor health should be euthanized and the money used to rehab the others.  the money is simply too scarce and there are too many.

26 Dec 2010 11:56 AM
AngelaFromAbilene

JAJ- Again, for what it's worth, I agree with you 100%.

26 Dec 2010 2:11 PM
bellesforever

This is heartbreaking!A donation is on the way..How this can happen to any horse just makes me cry .Thank you for getting us this info..i sure hope he recovers and finds a loving home..

26 Dec 2010 2:48 PM
Kathy

I've gone to the Heart of Tucson website and taken a gander at the horses they've rehabbed and they are gorgeous and it appears that they are all can be ridden or will be as soon as they all are taught. Not only do they rehab horses, they make sure the younger ones are broken before they adopt them out. They've already said that Dyna King would make a great companion horse because of his issues.

Dyna King is being helped and rehabbed because he wants it. And the horse industry needs ambassadors such as Dyna King to remind them every minute of the day that there are really bad people out there that don't do right by their horses. If you enthanize all of the horses that have serious problems like Dyna King, within a short period of time, people forget the name of the poor unfortunate horse and move on. And the people that do it to them, move on as well.

If states can open up amusement parks with all sorts of themes, at least one of them can open up some sort of park that people can visit for all of the famous racing horses, claiming horses, pleasure horses and all other horse types damaged by abusive owners. I can hear the tour guide now.

"And over there is a horse called Dyna King,aka "Gifted" found near death at a place call dogpatch near Tucson. With the help of people around the world, Dyna King has a real good chance of living till he is 30 or more."

You can put this horse park near that new Noah's Ark amusement park. I hear Noah also helped out animals and the world by saving a bunch of animals that would otherwise be dead. I am glad I sent my money in.  

26 Dec 2010 3:33 PM
JAJ

AngleaFrom Abilene,

It is worth a lot to have others look at the problem from a practical point of view.

Bellesforever, did you not read what I wrote about what I believe Dyna King's future holds?  He will never recover and is unlikely to find a loving home.  He is likely to be in pain the rest of his life.

26 Dec 2010 4:13 PM
Mike Relva

MY COMMENT ON RESCUE

Glad that not everyone feels like you do.

26 Dec 2010 5:39 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

FYI you must have missed a post a few days ago that I sent you. I contacted where Dyna King is currently and the director said he's on the improve and they are hopeful. She asked tghat I email her sending info on two places I've suggested in Kentucky.

26 Dec 2010 5:43 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

First,you aren't there to decide if it's a "hopeless case",sorry to disappoint you on that. Second,I'm told  they have seen worse that recovered.

26 Dec 2010 5:48 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

Are you a vet?

26 Dec 2010 6:57 PM
Kathy

Michael Matz was training a horse named Sahara King. I noticed that he broke down this afternoon in a Maiden Special Weight at Tampa Bay. Does anyone know if he survived the breakdown?

26 Dec 2010 7:11 PM
Barbara W

JAJ,

How can you make your prognosis from afar?

Even if what you say turns out to be true, the people at Heart of Tucson and those of us who sent donations are helping with what has been dealt to us (and them) rather than turning our backs, which is easy to rationalize. Just because we can't help them all doesn't mean we shouldn't help the ones we know about. At least I can sleep at night, knowing I didn't add to the problem.

26 Dec 2010 7:48 PM
Lou in TX

Please, it's Christmas time. Let's not get our feathers out of sort. We go only by what Tuscon tells us not by what others want to predict. If he can be helped, we FOB's will help. If he doesn't make it, at least we know we tried to help in someway. My heart goes out to those that are working with him. You know it must be painful for them to see what he is going through. Let's all pray that he does recover.

Mike R...if you find out something the next time you talk to Tuscon, please let us know how he is doing.

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and will have a happy, healthy New Year.

26 Dec 2010 8:34 PM
needler in Virginia

SHEESH, EVERYONE! It really IS Christmas time! Please try to be cognizant of what's going on here. HEART is trying desperately to save Gifted, but there is more going on here than originally appeared. While I know I'm more than a bit of a s*** stirrer, I recognize when no meeting of the minds will take place AND that, even if Gifted does NOT make it, whatever was sent in donations will go to another horse also desperately in need.  While I wish it were not so, we cannot save all of them, guys; we just CAN'T. As much as Barbaro fought and tried, he could not have been saved; Dr Richardson said almost that on the day of the very first surgery. It was the longest of long shots, the Jacksons gave MORE than their all, and the battle was lost. It sounds as if Gifted is in more serious trouble, and a horse cannot survive with what appears to be happening to his coffin bone. Having trusted my money to HEART, I also trust them to make the humane decision for Gifted. He deserves no less.

While you are throwing stones at JAJ, try to remember this: we also own horses. We have had to make decisions that tear me apart and make me weep through the night. Sometimes you CANNOT save them, no matter what you do. Sometimes the kindest, most humane, and most responsible thing to do is let them go with dignity. You do NOT want to know how horses running wild in the western US die. BELIEVE ME, YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW; they deserve better, too, but no one is there to help. We do what we can to help because we have chosen to care for them as long as they have the chance at a good life. I would NEVER ask an animal to suffer the kind of pain Gifted very likely is going to have if his coffin bone is, indeed, deteriorating. That would be irresponsible, selfish, and ultimately cruel.

So, please everyone, try to remember that HEART is the group on the ground, and they may have to make one of the foulest decisions one could ever have to make. ALSO, go back and read JAJ's posts from the first one to the last. There is truth there, sad, but truth nevertheless.......even if JAJ still can't seem to get it right about siblings and all that DNA stuff!! Since it's Christmas, JAJ, I  forgive you and will send you a book about Mendel's peas!!!

Trust HEART to do best for Gifted, and deal with animal problems however your heart tells you; your answers may NOT be mine, but I must follow MY heart, as well.

Cheers, safe trips and KINDNESS TO ALL.

26 Dec 2010 9:46 PM
Mike Relva

LOU in TX

Hope you had a great holiday. As for what info I know from three days ago is they feel he has a realistic chance. Will be making a call in the next day or two and will give you update. Thanks for asking.

26 Dec 2010 9:53 PM
Barbara W

Mike Relva,

Please do keep us informed via this blog. I know they do not have manpower or time to handle an onslaught of calls, so your call and concern will speak for us too.

26 Dec 2010 10:46 PM
YES ITS TRUE SHERRY

MIKE, YOU ARE CORRECT! JAJ DOESN'T GET IT!

JAJ,

Wendy City said the exact same thing as Dona did, people that cannot afford the entire process of owning and breeding racehorses, should not be allowed to do so. That's one of the problems and the other seems to be, the mindset that it's better to put them down because it's the kindest thing to do. Bull!  

You might claim to be a caring person but in my book if you say that it's better to do away with problem horses and use the money for better/healthier/god only knows what else, then you're not a humane person, your'e not even a caring person. You're a dollar and cents kind of person.

Dyna King/Gifted wants to live and he deserves that chance and we, the human species, must do any and everything we can to see that he has that chance. Heart must be appalled at what you said about Dyna King because it borders on the obscene! Anyone that has ever owned a pet probably knows the heartache of putting down a sick or severly injured loved one and certainly knows the difference between sparing them additional pain and suffering vs puting them down because it's cheapier. Do some do it? yes I imagine they do but that doesn't make it right. It's not the same as with race horses or breeding stock because you have earned money from their efforts and you owe them a safe and secure life of ease. Any other frame of mind is not acceptable, period!

If I sound obtuse on this subject, guilty! I have no patience or understanding for any statement that says kill the old and infirmed for the sake of others. How's that saying go, "when they came for my brother, I said nothing. When they came for me, there's was no one left to speak out"?

26 Dec 2010 11:00 PM
Mike Relva

SHERRY

Bravo! Six yrs ago I had a family cat that had severe kidney problems,while some would've put him down without a second thought,I didn't give up on him and therefore my vet was able to "buy him" another 10 months that was mostly quality. I never second guessed my decision to spend over a thousand dollars to give him a chance of a little extra time. Dyna King deserves the chance as long as he's willing,we should be!

26 Dec 2010 11:43 PM
Kathy

My thought on Dyna King's feet problems is that if the farrier and vet can work through Dyna King's feet troubles, something can be learned for horses in the future that suffer similar problems. As with Barbaro, if a horse doesn't have a good leg to stand on, Heart of Tucson and the vet will recognize it and make sure that Dyna King doesn't suffer. But as I have recently read, Dyna King tried to kick one of the rescuers with his back feet. In order to do this, he needs to put weight on his front feet. This doesn't sound to me like Dyna King is quite ready to go yet.

27 Dec 2010 12:04 AM
JAJ

A horse does not recover from a rotated coffin bone that is disintegrating.

You manage it if it it possible, but Dyna King will not recover.

It is progressive.  The circulation to the foot is severely compromised.  A foot has very marginal circulation at best--there is not leeway in a foot.

The laminae, which are the structures that attach the hoof to the inner structures of the foot, have irreparably broken down.  Dyna Kings foot doesn't have the internal structures to hold his coffin bone in place.  The deep digital tendon exerts pull on the coffin bone.  With no solid bond between the laminae and the hoof, the deep digital tendon will rotate the coffin bone.

I'm not a vet, but for a group are so involved in laminitis, you don't seem to have a lot of understanding of the process or the prognosis.

Treatment will be ongoing for the rest of Dyna King's life.  It will be expensive and time consuming with little chance of success.  There is no cure.  He is in a lot of pain now, and I don't see his pain problem going away ever.

There is no happy ever after for Dyana King.

Also, his laminitic foot is not an abuse issue unless he was released in that condition.  The abuse is that he was released to starve to death.  The fact he developed laminitis and developed abscesses as a result of laminitis is not abuse in and of itself.

27 Dec 2010 2:44 AM
JAJ

Needler in Virginia,

Thank you for your support.

I do get genetics!!!  I do understand that each parent passes on an equal amount of DNA (Yes, Mary, I do understand that the Y chromosome has less than the X chromosome!)

I do understand that genes don't care if they came from the father or the mother--genes are genes and either are expressed or not.

I do understand that horses sired by the same sire are half siblings from a genetic point of view.   I do understand that horses sired by the same sire are just as related to each other in the real sense of the word as horses who share the same mother.

You have to understand that the industry knows that, too.  There are so many statistics on the siring ability of any stallion that has at least one foal crop of racing age.  The industry KNOWS what a sire produces.

If you look at any stallion ad, you will see a list of top performing foals as well as the name of the sire of their dam (broodmare sire).

What the industry doesn't know easily is what a mare produces.  There aren't the statistics for mares that are available for stallions.

THAT is why the industry looks at the pedigree of the mare so closely.

It is a way of sorting through pedigrees.

27 Dec 2010 3:01 AM
JAJ

YES IT@qote;s TRUE SHERRY,

One always has to evaluate the quality of life an animal is expected to have.  It is not acceptable to me to keep an animal alive to suffer chronic, debilitating pain with no hope of relief.  Based on the information Heart has released, I suspect that is Dyna King's future.

27 Dec 2010 6:15 AM
AngelaFromAbilene

JAJ- You are much more diplomatic than I and appear to have the patience of Job when dealing with people.  I applaud you.  Please keep it up. You and I know the reality of this situation.  

I have a coming 23 y/o mare who suffers from laminitis though there is no rotation yet.  It is VERY expensive to maintain this mare and keep here quality of life good.  At the first sign of rotation, I will put her down.  

15 years ago, my vet had a severely foundered mare whos owners refused to put her down.  This poor mare was kept in a sling as her coffin bone slowly rotated through the sole.  Only then, would the owner consent to euthanasia!  It was the most heart wrenchingly cruel thing I have ever witnessed.  

Non-horsemen/women just do not seem to grasp the reality until they actually witness it.

27 Dec 2010 7:08 AM
JAJ

Mike Relva,

I respect you for spending money to give your beloved cat an extra 10 months of life.  Would you have spent the $1000 if you knew that your cat would be suffering a lot of pain for those 10 months?

Dyna King will cost far, far more than $1000 just to get over this crisis.  He will need countless x-rays, venograms, medications, vet and farrier visits.  He will need special shoeing.

If your cat were a homeless stray who found itself in a rescue, would you think it a wise use of the rescue's funds to spend $1000 to prolong the inevitable by 10 months?

These are tough choices.  There is no easy answer.

27 Dec 2010 8:21 AM
JAJ

AngelaFromAbilene,

Thank you for the support.  It upsets me more than it should when the majority on the list write that they think I am a heartless person driven solely by greed and that I don't have horses' best interests at heart.

I've never dealt with a laminitic horse (as I scramble to touch wood!).  You have.

Perhaps you could write what sort of issues this particular horse is dealing with on a day-to-day basis.  What sort of expenses are involved.

(In a previous list of some of the things this horse needs, I wrote he would need countless x-rays, venograms, vet and farrier visits.  I neglected to include surgery.  I suspect a vet would recommend that the deep digital flexor tendon be cut to stop the pull on the coffin bone.)

I think many think that once the abscesses are cleaned up, that the horse will be sound and pain free.  They have no idea of what is entailed to get this horse comfortable, if that is even possible.

Since you've had experience dealing with laminitis, how often would you guess a vet or farrier should be out evaluate this horse?  Can you help enlighten the well meaning but not very knowledgeable on this blog.

27 Dec 2010 9:11 AM
Mike Relva

JAJ

So,what's your comment regarding the fact that Judy,(the director) stated he has a good chance? I mean,if I'm correct she's the one that sees him on a daily basis and should have her finger on the pulse of the situation. You seem bright,but the fact remains you aren't there with him,she is.

27 Dec 2010 9:25 AM
Ragsy

JAJ

Bless your heart, your working so hard to educate us folks, guess, the next step is to prepare to extinguish the elderly in the USA and world wide because their medical issues are to great and far too costly, what age do we start with JAJ?  interesting

27 Dec 2010 10:12 AM
stardustyrose

Yooooooooooo Yooooooooooo

Ya think you can all stop the bickering for awhile for Barbaro's New Years Video????????  LOVE ♥

Barbaro should be bringing us all love this season..... ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

www.youtube.com/watch

♥Barbaro♥  Always in my Heart♥

27 Dec 2010 10:45 AM
stardustyrose

Here is the site where you can make a donation for Dyna King.  I donated 29 bucks about a week ago.  Seems like a good number..♥

heartoftucson.org/DynaKing.html

♥Barbaro♥

27 Dec 2010 10:48 AM
Chris B

Thanks for the story. I will send a donation after work today. Unfortunately, these stories are too regular and too abundant especially with these difficult economic times. However, the breeding just keeps rolling right along, especially backyard breeding. As we approach the fifth year anniversary of Barbaro's magical and historical win this May, I am constantly reminded of how much work we are still called to do. My life has changed significantly since Barbaro but my days of volunteering at a local horse rescue are a painful reminder of work yet left to do. We need swift changes to help local rescues care for the horses no one wants, the horse industry (all of it not just racing) and breeders need to help shoulder the burden of caring for horses, a national and state registry so people who have fallen on tough times can seek help from others a lifetime ban of owning a horse for anyone found abusing and neglecting any animal. In the words of my riding instructor, it is easier and more beneficial to help with hay and other needs than to rescue and rehabilitate abused and neglected horses. I really want to see us make changes but I need help trying to understand how to make this work. After all, aren't these the changes Barbaro would want us to make for all his brothers and sisters?

27 Dec 2010 12:09 PM
Mike Relva

STARDUSTYROSE

Hey,how have you been?

27 Dec 2010 12:29 PM
JAJ

Mike Revla,

I make my comments based on what has been published.  There is coffin bone rotation and disintegration of the coffin bone.

That's all I need to hear to know the prognosis is really, really bad for this horse.

That the director thinks he has  good chance makes me question the judgment of the rescue.

I'm hoping that AngelaFromAbilene can enlighten the group as to what is involved since she is dealing with a laminitic horse with NO rotation.  She has stated that as soon as there is any rotation, she will put the horse down.  Not because of costs, but because of pain.

27 Dec 2010 12:35 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

Ok,I get it although you aren't with him,your knowledge and insight far exceeds those around him everyday. Right.

27 Dec 2010 1:12 PM
PatC

Heart of Tucson is there with him every hour of every day, they know what is best for him and they are very optimistic, and we should be too.  

Any more updates, Greg?

27 Dec 2010 1:39 PM
stardustyrose

Mike Relva ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey there..... I am doing OK.  How have you been?  Finished my masters this year.  :)) On vacation sorta for about a mounth.  

♥Barbaro♥

27 Dec 2010 2:57 PM
JAJ

Mike Revla,

I don't need to see the x-rays of a displaced comminuted (many fracture lines) condylar fracture where the bones have broken the skin to know that the odds are not in the horse's favor.

Diagnoses have probable outcomes.

27 Dec 2010 3:23 PM
Lou in TX

Greg...have you been able to find out anything about Sahara Desert? MM trained him and he broke down yesterday at Tampa Bay trying for his Maiden.  I can't seem to find out anything. Need your help. If you find out something would you please post it here at BH.  I think someone else inquired about him to.  Thanks ahead of time.

27 Dec 2010 4:00 PM
Ragsy

If, anyone followed the beautiful Barbaro, they have learned about the dreadful Laminitis situation after all, it's what caused his death and no dollar was spared in his care..God Bless Him..

27 Dec 2010 4:02 PM
Ragsy

Congrats Stardusty Rose

I am sure your glad to be on vacation,good for you..Don't you just love school.

27 Dec 2010 4:06 PM
Barbara W

stardustyrose--

I just watched the youtube video of Barbaro. It was stunning! Even more stunning is this: look at the video at about 1:22 through it. It is the spitting image of DynaKing except for the white on the forehead.

Now to those who say DynaKing is a goner, and we should give up, I say this: should we have given up on Barbaro? Not in a million years.

How many people know about the problem of laminitis who didn't know about it before? How much money has been donated in his name to help fight it? No, DynaKing doesn't have the Jacksons and their money  to help him, but he has us. Is Barbaro "worth" more than DynaKing? He was just more well-known (unless you count worth in terms of earnings only).

Since I am pro-life, I put my money where my mouth is. If DynaKing loses his battle (God forbid, but we'll accept it), then we will know we have done all we could and left no stone unturned.

"More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of" Miracles still happen every day.

"Saving one animal won't change the world, but it will change the world for that one animal."

27 Dec 2010 4:18 PM
JAJ

Barbara W,

I am curious of your "pro life" comment.  Did you mean that you do not believe in euthanasia under any circumstances?

27 Dec 2010 5:25 PM
Ragsy

Hey Stardust

Just finished watching your video of Barbaro and was really blown away ..it is magnificient.  Barbara W, above, is correct with her description of Dyna King looking like a relative, but of course, they are half way there..so they are part, Dyna-brothers...

I will pray nightly for Dyna King to recover...

Yes, people will be judged by how they care for their animals.  MR&Mrs Jackson are number 1.  

27 Dec 2010 5:46 PM
Kathy

Stardustyrose, I haven't seen you post anything in months. It is good to see that you are still around.

27 Dec 2010 5:56 PM
Ivy77

JAJ:

Dyna-King and Heart of Tucson deserve our every consideration. ( Thank you, Bloodhorse for bringing it to our attention.)

Stop showing off.  You are contributing nothing.  I am not impressed.  I'm not reading another syllable you write.  This is NOT the forum and this is not your forum so stop monopolizing it.  

27 Dec 2010 6:09 PM
Mike Relva

IVY77

Thanks for lowering the boom on "Mr/Mrs know it all".

27 Dec 2010 6:24 PM
Ragsy

Stardusty Rose

You little stinker, you put Dyna King in and yes,he looks so much like Dear Barbaro!!!! you got me!!  I went back and re-watched the video...Ho,Ho,Ho Merry Christmas!!!

27 Dec 2010 6:24 PM
Ragsy

Hey Lou

Good to see you back...missed ya.  I miss Bobby now after Stardust did her thing, that naughty girl...she really fooled me for a minute..

27 Dec 2010 6:31 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

Sorry to bruise your ego,but was contacted late this afternoon from Hearts of Tucson by no less than the director. Inquired regarding the condition of DK and PROGRESS IS BEING MADE! Took the liberty to mention the "remarks" you've made over the past few days. I know it's a disappointment to your argument,but DK is on the way back. Again,you aren't there and I'll take the word of the director over your views anyday!

27 Dec 2010 6:34 PM
Lou in TX

Stardustyrose....love your video on Barbaro. It is really great. So happy that you got your Masters. What field did you get it in? Getting your Masters is alot of work. At least when my husband got his it was very stressful. His was in clinical physic. Sooo proud of you.

It's good to have you back. Please don't be gone so long next time.

27 Dec 2010 7:12 PM
Greg J.

JAJ,

Excuse me, but to say you question the judgment of this rescue?  Really?  Who are you to say such a thing?  Dyna King has a chance at life because of HEART of Tucson, if not, he would be dead.  There have been many cases of horses that were given no chance to survive and gone on to beat those odds and live long, happy lives.  If these were your horses, they would have never been given that chance.  On a blog that is dedicated to Dyna King, I am speechless that you would question this rescue.  Of course I understand the long odds Dyna King faces, but, he at least deserves a chance to beat those odds, does he not?  I applaud HEART of Tucson and all other rescues that take in these horses that are given no chance.  Even if Dyna King doesn't beat those odds, he now has that chance he didn't have two weeks ago.  He also has his dignity back and he is surrounded by people that are doing everything to help him.

Stardustyrose,

Welcome back and loved the video, bravo!

Lou in TX,

Regarding the two year old colt, Sahara King.  Sadly, it didn't look good, I watched the replay and after getting injured coming down the stretch, he was lying down on the track motionless.  The jockey was walking away and nobody was holding the colt down.  It looked very sad and I am sorry.  I am going by what I observed in the replay, if I find out more, I will let you know.

Mike Relva,

Thank You!

27 Dec 2010 7:13 PM
Ragsy

Yeah Mike

Such great words that I have heard today.

Thank You!!!

27 Dec 2010 7:57 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

All you've done is offer "expert opinions". Will bet you haven't made one call to inquire about him. Guess it's easier running off at the mouth when others' are trying to help,isn't it?

27 Dec 2010 7:59 PM
Mike Relva

HELLO GREG

Hope your holiday was great! It's you that deserves thanks,not I. If it weren't for you,many wouldn't have known about this story. You are first class,man! As for the other issue you mentioned,agreed. Some people "kill me".

27 Dec 2010 8:04 PM
Barbara W

JAJ.

This is becoming tedious. I do not believe in euthanasia for people. I do not believe in it for animals unless everything that can be done has been done, and the animal is suffering. Geez.

27 Dec 2010 9:01 PM
JAJ

Mike Relva,

I emailed the rescue as soon as this blog appeared asking about Dyna King and received no response.

Greg, I am entitled to question anyone who goes about asking for my money in the name of charity, especially in such a public forum.

What do you know about this rescue?  How much of the donated dollar goes into administration expenses?

I think everyone should question charities and expect them to be accountable.  Those that give to any charity should find out how much of your donated dollar actually goes to the cause you donated it for.

Laminitis doesn't kill, except when the animal is in so much pain they don't get up and die from complications of being down too long.  Bone cancer doesn't kill either, until the rib cage disintegrates and the pulmonary system collapses. It is just an unbelievably horribly painful way to spend your life.

Rescue is always a trade off.  When you save one, you can't save another.  I always hope that rescues will look for the greater good and save the most.

In war, casualties are triaged--some who can be saved die so that more can be saved.  It's a trade off.  In horse, dog, cat and parrot rescue, there just isn't enough money to save them all.

I have many, many animal rescues clamoring for my dollars.  I am careful where I send my money.

27 Dec 2010 9:15 PM
Kathy

Inre, to Sahara King, I rewatched a video. It didn't showing him lying on the track, but it did show him begin to breakdown. This is just so sad. He was only two years old. Thank you for the update.

27 Dec 2010 9:16 PM
Mike Relva

RAGSY

I'm not sure of your meaning.

27 Dec 2010 9:16 PM
Mike Relva

BARBARA W

Great comments.  She told me today if it wasn't  a vivable chance,they wouldn't be trying to save him. He has a real chance here.

27 Dec 2010 9:29 PM
Lou in TX

Greg...thanks for the info. It doesn't sound good. What a shame to lose such a young horse. That is if he didn't make it.

Hope you had a wonderful Christmas. Are you getting the snow we keep hearing about here in TX.

All you FOB's and you know who you are, lets send all our prayers to Dyna King and if God wills him to live that will be great. If not, he needs him in Heaven and has a purpose for him to be there with him. We'll keep the faith and soon we will know what God's plan is for him. We all need to have positive thoughts. Thanks Greg for speaking out on this issue.

27 Dec 2010 9:41 PM
Lise from Maine

Bonjour,

This story is so disturbing.

What is wrong with people who do a thing such as this? They ought to be arrested, convicted, and sent to jail for this kind of behavior.

This is animal abuse.

The poor little thing. I am so sorry for him.

He appears to have a strong will to live so he will make it. He is in good hands right now.

God love him.

Stories such as this shows the "dark" side of horse racing.

Thank you for sharing this story.

Love to you, DynaKing.

27 Dec 2010 9:51 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

One thing you fail to grasp,you aren't at the controls here,you are a bystander like myself. I've great faith in what they are doing for him and the improvements that's being realized. So,is that the way it is? Always a neg. It almost seems as if you wish they would fail just to prove your point. It's like Greg alluded to giving the horse the best chance. Don't buy any of it you're trying in vain to sell. BTW you touched on money,do you ever give any or just long winded speeches?

27 Dec 2010 10:08 PM
Barbara W

Thanks, Mike Relva. Please keep us updated.

27 Dec 2010 10:12 PM
Horsefirst

I've dealt with minimal, early laminitis and it is painful even at that stage.

Just because a horse is progressing does not mean the horse is curable.  Two very different things. We all witnessed Barbaro progress and then slide back.

Just because a horse is progressing does not mean that they will ever be sound or lead a pain free life.

At some point, someone at the rescue is going to have to evaluate this horse and make a decision.  If the horse can be made sound AND PAIN FREE, that's one thing.  It's entirely another if the horse has to be on some pain killer the rest of its life because even the lesser ones, like bute, ravage the stomach over time.

So, at the very least, recognize that the prognosis for this horse is poor, given what we know.  I'd really like to hear directly from the vet and not have information filtered, even from well intentioned people.

And yes, I've had to have horses put down and it's one of the most gut wrenching things you'll ever have to do.  One had lived a long life and while that was sad, it was for the best.  Another I lost at quite a young age.  The prognosis was extremely poor, it needed a hospital and there was no safe way to transport and the animal was in extreme pain.  Believe me, no one, including JAJ, takes those decisions lightly.

The problems are very, very complex, I think that's what JAJ is trying to get at.  Money is very limited.

I think the problem begins with over breeding and that is not just about the Thoroughbred industry.

27 Dec 2010 10:21 PM
JAJ

Mike Relva,

I am quite aware I have no control and very little information on Dyna King.  However, I probably do have a much better understanding than you do of the long-term outlook for a horse with the diagnosis that Dyna King has.

My posts started as philosophical ponderings on the issues facing those on the front line of the unwanted horse problem.  I would think that subject would be of interest to a group who are quite dedicated to reducing horse suffering.

One concern I have is that this rescue will keep Dyna King alive and suffering against medical advice only because he seems to be a good income producer for them.  I've seen that sort of behavior in other rescues.  I'm not saying that is the happening here, only that it is a legitimate fear I have.

All rescues need to be accountable to their donors.

On a personal note, I do donate a lot of money and time to animal rescue including but not limited to horses.  But you weren't asking for an answer, were you.  Instead you were wishing to take a cheap shot at me.

27 Dec 2010 10:38 PM
Windy City

Jaj,

as I said before, I would only keep my horse/animal alive is he would have a chance for a painless, good quality life. I wouldn't keep with me an miserable suffering animal, just to make me feel better or give him more time on earth. What an cruel gift would be...However, I would sacrifice a lot to try to safe an animal who would have a chance to live a PAINLESS life, even if shortened. I have a faith that HEARTH will make what's best for him. If they are fighting for him, it means that there is a chance.

Let's remember that even Secretariat and Barbaro didn't win with laminatis but if DK looses - he'll cross the rainbow bridge with his head up high, surrounded by people who love him. And that will be worth the effort and money many people did put into him. That will make me feel that my money was well spent. Every soul deserves a dignity, during a life and during the death.

BTW, are people with MBA's winning any prizes here?? Have I missed something?? I want one too! LOL :-)) Happy New Year to Everyone!

28 Dec 2010 12:22 AM
rams2050

I am a long time horse owner -- 52 years and counting -- who has rescued two Thoroughbreds.

I have owned many types of horses -- or rather, they have owned me -- and I have found that Thoroughbreds are no harder to 'keep' than any other breed.

The breeds which I have owned to date include the aforementioned Thoroughbreds, several Al-Khamsa Arabians, Quarter horses, Missouri fox trotters, a Tennessee Walking Horse, an ex-polo pony (3/4 Thoroughbred, 1/4 Quarter Horse who had contracted shipping fever and which I rescued as well) and a Tennessee Walker/Quarter Horse mix.

All were loving individuals, even the two Thoroughbreds who came to me right off of the track (Aqueduct and Fairmount) and each of which had been slated to be sold for the then price/pound that the slaughterhouse was paying, which was 50-cents.  I purchased Shadow, who stood 17-2 for $600 and Lucey, a 15-2 mare, for $500.

Both were great riding horses and neither needed any re-schooling, as unlikely as that may seem.  We immediately rode them with western tack, although it took a while to acquaint them with the concept of neck-reining.

Lucey, who is now a member of my brother-in-law's family, is now fat and sassy and 23 years old.  She is a big pet -- like a dog who just happens to live in a stable right outside -- and I MEAN right outside -- within 10 yards -- of my brother-in-law's back door.  If they get up in the middle of the night they dare not turn on a light because Lucey will see it and start whinnying for treats.  Spoiled!

Shadow and Lucey lived on our 270 acre farm -- 60 acres pasture -- for a long time.  Shadow for 19 years (we got him when he was 4; he died this summer at the age of 23), Lucey for 16 years before she left for the brother-in-law's place.  For the entire duration of their stay on our farm they were mainly pastured, period.  We had no great pasture, either, brome, orchard grass, fescue and some native warm season grasses like little bluestem, and yet both spent their lives hog-fat.

They would receive grain once or twice a week, along with carrots, apples and other horsey treats.

Regrettably, Shadow was struck by lightning this past July.  He had sheltered in a hollow where he always ran during thunderstorms and that was where he was discovered when our caretaker visited and Shadow did not gallop up for his ration of treats.

The vet bills that some folks have spoken of never materialized for either horse.  I wormed them myself -- $9.95 2X each year with Ivermectrin -- and I also gave them most of their shots.  The sole exception was rabies boosters which the vet would administer.

My vet is -- or was -- very reasonable.  He lived nearby and so he would charge me just $35 for a farm call plus the cost of whatever it was he had to do.

Neither horse ever had to have their teeth floated, although I would imagine Lucey is closing in on that.

Shadow did come up limping once -- dragging his right front leg -- and the alternate vet wanted to 'put him down.'  I wouldn't let him do it, though, because I thought it looked like Sweeney shoulder, which it turned out to be.  A month later and Shadow was walking and galloping around as good as ever.

My Arabians, which I now board close to where I live, are a similar story.  I have had no vet expenses to speak of, other than tooth floating (twice) for the older mare (23 -- a total of $160) and a scratched retina ($200 total and 3 trips to the vet, 40 miles distant).

Contrast that with my bunny rabbit who, when she had GI stasis recently cost me $120 for a single vet visit and meds.

Through the years my rabbits have cost me probably well over $5,000 in vet bills.  I'll bet all my horses together during 52 years haven't totaled $2,500.

My husband always says he cringes when I bring home another rabbit (because of the projected expense) but he doesn't fear another horse.  (Of course, I know I've been lucky.  My horses have just never been sickly animals -- knock on wood).

I ride, but I ride my horses barefoot.  I do the little farrier work that is needed myself -- usually a little lick and a promise with a rasp is all -- and I've found that my barefoot horses are healthier for it.  Of course, if you have shoed your horses it may take some time for their hooves to adapt to being barefoot.  In the meantime, you may have to have a shoer or farrier come out and do some trimming to keep their hooves in good shape.  Or, if you ride on graveled or paved surfaces, your horses may actually need to be shod.  We usually ride on bare ground, which is more hospitable to the barefoot horse.

My horses, other than Shadow, have lived to ripe old ages, too.  Two have died at the age of 35, one lived to be 33, two others to 31 and another was euthanized at 28 when there was nothing more I could do to make her life pleasurable.  I had the vet give her the shot while her head was resting on my shoulder -- he told me she would bring me down but she hated to get shots and I wasn't going to make her endure the last shot of her life without having the comfort of my presence. She was my 'everything' horse -- the one that every owner longs to have just once in his or her life -- and I knew she wouldn't bring me down.  When she got the shot, her legs went out from under her and she dropped to the earth without harming me, without even touching me.  

Needless to say, it took me many hours of crying at her side before I could leave her body and call the backhoe operator.

I still tear up every time I pass her grave -- and she died 19 years ago.

But, my point is this:  if you can afford -- or have the land to put into pasture, say 5 to 10 acres per horse, depending on where yo live,  if you have a means of watering and of keeping that water clean in the summer and thawed in the winter (in-tank water heaters or freeze-proof troughs are both marvels) and a barn where you can store and feed hay, you can easily rescue a good horse.  You will, of course, need some sturdy fence but in my experience most horses don't want to leave their homes once they know it is their home -- and if they aren't being abused.

My husband built a barn with hay lofts above four large box stalls.  Connecting the loft with the stalls were four huge and slanted wooden mangers where we were able to drop 10 to 14 broken up (small rectangular) bales into these mangers and that take care of hay feeding chores for an entire week.  The box stalls were open -- meaning that the horses could come and go at will from the pastures surrounding the barn.

One can keep horses quite reasonably if you have the land, are willing to do some work -- or pay someone to do it -- and have some imagination.

I know I was lucky in another way, too.  My two Thoroughbreds had gentle natures.  Neither was too 'hot' to handle, unlike some horses straight off the track.

If you plan to rescue a  horse, be sure that you ask to ride it before you take it home.  If you can take a vet with you so that he or she can be sure the horse is healthy and not drugged.  (I didn't do the latter, but my daughter knew the horse trainer and so I felt fairly safe taking his horses -- I knew where I could find him if the horses turned bad (smile)).

28 Dec 2010 12:26 AM
Yes It's True Sherry

Thanks Mike, I appreciate the word!

I have read everything I could ever find about Barbaro, the brothers, Zenyatta and any blog that appears worth while on the subject of horses. I strongly stress the word worth while! This blog is definitly in that catagory and I too, must give thanks and credit to Greg for his endeavors regarding Heart and the plight of Dyna King/Gifted. I seldom submit entries but I couldn't sit back and not call out JAJ for the comments that were being made. I don't want to get personal but we are responsible for what we say and must take every opportunity to make our thoughts understood and I believe JAJ has done that thoroughly.

JAJ, you may be knowledgable about a lot of things or you may just like to sound off but your attitude about laminitis is a little jaundice. You speak of Barbaro, which I find disgusting here, and question the time and effort spent to save his life when we all know it was never a matter of money for the Jacksons and if you will reread the record, you will see that in the first of January, they thought he was getting ready to be discharged to a facility for rehab and retirement. It was always understood that should he experience pain that could not be managed, he would be put to rest and that was the point! The Jacksons said all along "it was up to Barbaro" and they were true to their word. According to you, it was money and time wasted! I almost feel sorry for you because it's clear you don't understand. I remember reading a passage as a child that may help you and it goes like this "knowledge with out understanding is wasted learning".  You know very well that Barbaro has becaome larger than life because of his valiant fight for life and is the most important retort to your argument. Laminitis is in the fore front because of him and the public outcry that ensued. Racing and breeding has always dealt with this problem with the business as usual attitude, too bad and tsk, tsk, how a sad but it was the PUBLIC and HORSE LOVERS that were questioning that attitude. Now, serious research money is being spent to find a cure. How come it took Barbaro and his precious life to accomplish that? Why wasn't it seriously addresed? Good intentions aside, don't you undertstand the anger that says why did Barbaro die from something that everybody knows something about? Why weren't they pushing for a cure all along? My word, look at the great horses that were taken by this disease, which is appalling but it's common in everyday animals!  Where was the outrage before Barbaro? Yet, you stick to your comment about non horse owners and their interferences, like it's so distasteful and bothersome. Fie on you! You seriously need a Scrooge treatment and cure!      

28 Dec 2010 12:35 AM
Agree with JAJ

Yes It's True Sherry -

Do you think that there was no laminitis research BEFORE Barbaro? It has always been appalling, and horse people have always known it wsa appalling, and research (and funding for research) for laminitis did NOT begin in 2006/2007 with Friends/Fans of Barbaro. Do you think his caregivers just instinctively knew what to do when he came up with laminitis? No, they used treatments and medications and knowledge gained from decades of research. It wasn't enough. There is no cure for cancer either, despite all the money raised to find one, and people die of it every day.

I'm reasonably certain that JAJ isn't on this blog because of a hatred for Barbaro, the brothers, or the Jacksons. All I have seen on this blog post from JAJ is a dose of realism regarding the serious nature of Dyna King's condition. I'm not a horse person (e.g. I'm just a casual fan, and I wouldn't be on this blog if I didn't have a genuine interest in Barbaro and his siblings), but I am a thinker, and I can see valid truth in just about everything that JAJ has said. Just because you can't look at it objectively and learn from it, doesn't make it any less true. It is possible that the best and most dignified thing for this unfortunate horse may be euthanasia. That's a hard thing to swallow, but it would be far better than making a horse suffer for the rest of its miserable life. True, none of us are "on the ground" but let's not blow sunshine up the collective rear end, either.

28 Dec 2010 1:58 AM
gammyp6

I am getting very suspicious that JAJ is another moniker for DrayNay. I think we are all aware that a less than desirable outcome is possible at anytime. War Pass died for no apparent reason on Christmas Eve. 5 years old! Of course we are all sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for your analysis of his demise. DynaKing will not be allowed to suffer. Should he lose this fight at least he will know that people were there for him at the end. And there was love-again.

28 Dec 2010 2:54 AM
JAJ

Yes Its True Sherry,

Hold on a minute!  I can get into enough trouble on my own for what I do say without you ascribing to me things I NEVER DID say or imply.

I have never once mentioned Barbaro in my posts.  He and his story have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this particular story.

I have never ever taken a position that individuals cannot spend what they want to spend on their own animals.  I have never commented on the time and money spent on Barbaro.

I am raising the legitimate question that perhaps money spent by a donor-supported rescue on one laminitic horse with coffin bone rotation and disintegration in the coffin bone is just maybe not the wisest use of donor money.  Rescues are chronically short of funds.  I was suggesting that saving many for the price of this one that has such a poor prognosis might be a better use of their scarce resources.

You can't save them all.  Rescues need to choose.  

You are mistaken if you think that the industry or the veterinarian research facilities only began putting any effort and money into researching laminitis after Barbaro.  It may surprise you that people who love horses were supporting research into laminitis before Barbaro.  Research in laminitis goes on at research institutes around the world, not just where FOB's send their money.  And, please, don't misunderstand my above comments--I believe the FOB's have brought in a lot of money and publicity to laminitis and for that I am thankful, very thankful.  Just don't try to make the industry out to be some heartless monster that didn't care a whit about laminitis and the destruction it does to the horses we love.

I never said or implied that having those not involved in the industry wanting a say in the unwanted horse problem were as you put it, "distasteful and bothersome."  I said it was complicating, which is exactly what the American Association of Equine Practitioners (which is the organization of board-certified equine vets) said in a recent paper put presented at one of their annual conventions.  I said there were pros and cons.  That's all I said.  Again I ask you not to ascribe to me words or attitudes I do not have.

28 Dec 2010 6:16 AM
Dona

My cousin inherited a house and land that came with 4 cats, three siblings and their mother. Only one was some what tame, that was Harry. It took a few years of kindness and coaching before Patches and Tiffany, sisters, would allow anyone to touch them. Fortunately, they were all trapped and spayed but it left such a bad impression of people for the mother, Miss Cee, that she could never recovered from the trauma. I was priviliged to get to know them and except for Miss Cee, pet and hold them.

What a motley bunch of characters! Harry was grey and white stripe with the letters 711 on his side and his mouth looked like he had been eating blueberries with a blueish oval patch around his lips, that made him seem like he was saying "oh".

Patches was a yellow and grey calico with soft thick hair like rabbit furr. Smart and the most approachable, she was the family gardner. Patches would sit and watch the family pull weeds from the garden and somehow got the idea to bring daisys to the house. They finally realized she would watch and wait for gophers to undermine the plant and then she would snatch up the daisy and away she went, meowing all the way to the house for everyone to see.

Tiffany was the family hunter and the most animated. Black with white face and paws, she was the smallest of the three. Tiffany was a clown from day one but the hardest to tame of the siblings. Very independent with the tiniest sounding voice. People always mistook her for a kitten.

Miss Cee was the ugliest calico I had ever seen. Equal parts of grey, brown, black abd yellow, she defied the ability to accurately describe her. Very small, with one atrophied paw due to an injury, she was rarely seen at first, almost like a ghost. Hard to believe she could have given birth to three kittens, she looked like a three or four month old kitten herself. My cousin got to pet her once during feeding time but I never did.

I used to enjoy going over and visiting in the summer because at night the stars were so bright and I love star gazing. Watching the night sky with a lap of semi-tamed cats, each vying for my attention was such a hoot. My cousin thoroughly enjoyed the vacation from lap setting because to a one they all had their claws out. Ouch.

Miss Cee would hide a safe distance way but still show up every night or every time someone spent time with her "babies". You could tell by the look in her eyes that she wanted to be petted and loved but was unable to submit to being tamed. I loved that little cat the most of all, there was something so adorable about her. Maybe because she was such an ugly color. I honestly don't know why.

Sadly one by one they became ill. Tiffany had a bad heart and was on medication for years before passing away but she fought for her freedom to come and go as she pleased. Patches had a stroke and had to be put down first. I went with my cousin to the vet and held her as she slipped away. Whew, that was so difficult. I'm a dog person but these cats had stolen my heart and had become such a part of our lives, my mother and I.

Other than when she was spayed, Miss Cee never saw a vet. My cousin tried every way possible to trap or catch for a checkup and shots but to no avail. Finally after years of slowly fading, she came close to the house and was able to be snatched up and taken to the vet. It was a saturday, the regular vet was closed, my cousin called and asked if I would go with her to a new office near her home. Oh my, what a sight Miss Cee was. Matted and dirty, drawn paw, eyes swollen and caked with I don't know what. The vet's staff acted like she was a leper until we convienced them she couldn't bite because she had no teeth! They took her from us and bathed her the best they could before bringing her back in the room for the vet to examen. We were told she was dying of kidney failure and needed to be put down right away. My cousin told the vet a little about Miss Cee and asked if we could have a little time alone before hand. I never saw such an incredulous look! Obviously, she thought Miss Cee was neglected and unloved but that was far from the truth. For the first time in years, I was able to stroke her and mumble my feelings to her. She squinted her eyes, purred, rubbing her head on my hand. We took turns with her, each expressing years of unsaid love, crying for our loss but laughing at Miss Cee trying to position her little body in order to get the most enjoyment. To this day I bet they think we we idiots.  

Harry was the last to go and like Tiffany, he had heart problems and finally suffered a stroke. I went a way for a while after my mom died and was not available when my cousin took Harry to be put down. Something happened, a large animal vet was on duty when Harry went in and evidently it was horrendous. Harry screamed, maybe they hit a bone instead of a vein but it was terrible. My poor cousin, holding Harry during that time and poor, poor Harry. Suffering and scared the last minute of his life. No one should have to experience that.

Thousands of dollars were spent  carring for those cats and if any one asked why, my cousin always said "they belonged there, that was their home".

I was the lucky one for I got to share a love affair with four of the most ordinary, yet special stray cats. Mrs Jackson is right, grief is the price of love and money has nothing to do with it but responsibility does.

28 Dec 2010 6:38 AM
Kathy

JAJ,

All indications are that Heart of Tucson wants to get Dyna King stable and then move him north to Kentucky. From what Judy wrote in the Horse Rescue section of ABR, they don't plan on keeping him down at their rescue.

28 Dec 2010 7:14 AM
JAJ

GammyP6,

No, I am not posting under a pseudonym.  Never have and never will.

Why are you so sure Dyna King will not suffer?  He is suffering mightily right now.

28 Dec 2010 8:01 AM
JAJ

Here is a message that I hope many on the blog can understand and take to heart:

Passion and rational decision making are not mutually exclusive.

For the many younger readers of this blog, mutually exclusive means that if one thing happens the other cannot.  Being alive and being dead are mutually exclusive--you cannot be both.

One can be passionate about a cause and still be analytical about its solutions and the problems facing the issue.

28 Dec 2010 8:10 AM
Ragsy

Mike

I am sorry for the jumble, I have a neurological infection and the Neurologist isn't sure I fwill recover from it.  Here's hoping, I just can't spell or punctuate make any sense anymore.

I enjoy your posts was what I tried to say.  

28 Dec 2010 9:53 AM
Greg J.

FYI,

I will be posting an update on Dyna King/Gifted tonight, thanks for everyone's patience.

28 Dec 2010 10:39 AM
Mike Relva

RAGSY

Sorry to hear that,hope you feel better soon. Likewise.

28 Dec 2010 10:51 AM
Mike Relva

AGREE WITH JAJ

You refer to yourself as a"thinker" if that's the case then you might consider what I've stated regarding the view point,comments of the director of where DK is now. After all,she's the individual that's with DK on a daily basis. One might come to the conclusion that POSSIBLY she might have greater insight being around him. Somehow I doubt JAJ is in the loop.

28 Dec 2010 10:59 AM
Mike Relva

JAJ

Yes,I take my shots. But,like GREG stated and I agree if it were up to you,DK wouldn't get a chance at all.  Last week a horse named Gypsy Supreme was put down. He had laminitis for probably ten years. Point is they managed it and he lived a life of quality until the end he was twenty three. Question? What if he were not granted the chance? The horse I'm speaking of was a resident of Kentucky Horse Park and I received the call last week regarding his death. As for the many things you do,that's good. But,my feeling is you have an agenda here regarding this subject. How can you discount what the director is saying? I can't wrap my brain around that!

28 Dec 2010 11:13 AM
Lou in TX

Here's my two cents worth. I think all on this site wish for Dyna King/Gifted to have a quality of life he so richly deserves. But if in the end, he has to be put down, he would have know that he was loved and cared about and not just thrown out like trash. I think we all will be accepting of his death if it comes to that. We definitely don't want him to suffer. If the pain is manageable, that is still in question, then the people who are caring for him have to make the responsible decision.

I had to have a 1 yr old Golden Retriever put down because she was having seisures and they couldn't control them with medication. They just kept getting worse. As my vet explained it to me, the seisures were very painful to her. I had tried to keep her comfortable but that wasn't going to continue. I had no choice but to give her the peace she deserved. I cried for months about losing her but knew in my heart I had done the right thing.

We all want the right thing done for Dyna King/Gifted. At least we all agree on that. In the meantime, we can pray he is not in pain and that these people will make the right decision when and if the time comes.

28 Dec 2010 12:13 PM
Lou in TX

Ragsy..I'm soo sorry to hear about your problem. We'll all pray for you to have a complete recovery. In the meantime, please keep posting. We'll be able to understand what you are trying to say.  We can all read between the lines. God Bless You. Hang in there.

28 Dec 2010 12:18 PM
Voyager

JAJ,

Take you lumps and move on, maybe tomorrow will be another blog and you can discuss something less controversial. You have no one to blame but youself, for instance:

21Dec2010 7:00a.m.

"I'm going out on a limb here".

YOU KNEW NOT TO GO THERE!

You close that entry by saying "The solution to the unwanted horse problem is very complex, closing the slaughtering facilities doesn't solve the problem. It is still there.

25Dec2010 1:112 P.M.

You tell the story about the Danish woman, about how she was shocked horses were not slaughtered in the U.S. and then wanted to know what condition a horse had to be in before the owner would consider euthanasia.

You also said the groom held the pony while it was humanely killed. "If you're going to die anyway, that is not a bad way to go".

SLAUGHTERING AND EUTHANASIA ARE NOT THE SAME THING!

Your statement following that story says it all.

"Slaughtering as it is now is horrendous but I don't think it needs to be".

You have made no attempt to correct that statement, is there  any wonder why everyone is jumping down your throat?

This is a blog about a poor unfortunate mistreated animal and how everyone is trying to help save his life and in turn try to give him back his hard earned diginity. It's about love, tender care, and hope. I don't recall Greg saying please help by sending in your donations for euthanasia!  

Sit back, relax and next time try to be a little more sensitive.

28 Dec 2010 5:08 PM
sandieh

Ragsy, I am sorry to hear that you are not well. Best wishes for a complete recovery. I agree with Lou in Tx, we will understand what you are saying, you just keep posting, we enjoy hearing from you!

I was stunned to hear that we have lost War Pass! They don't know yet what War Pass passed away from.I was sorry that he was retired to stud early but I hear he has sired a lot of foals. Oh, Hoofprints in Heaven!

28 Dec 2010 5:44 PM
Dona

NEWS article from the bloodhorse magaine -

"Gypsy was an outstanding representive of his breed in our Hall of Champions, but beyond that, he was a cherished member of our park family," said John Nicholson, exective director of the Kentucky Horse Park, "our staff and Dr Robert Agne(DVM) from Rood & Riddle Equine Hospital(in Lexington) worked very hard for a lot of years to keep Gypsy comfortable and give him a good standard of living despite his laminitis because they were so devoted to him. They loved him and knew him well enough to say goodbye when it finally became necessary. The Saddlebred world has lost a great show horse, his fans have lost a legend, and our park has lost a fine friend."

    RIP, CH GYPSY SUPREME  

28 Dec 2010 5:44 PM
Lou in TX

Thank you Voyager!!!!

28 Dec 2010 7:48 PM
Mike Relva

VOYAGER

Bravo. JAJ has no one to blame but him/her. I don't agree with statements like those and never will. Could care less what JAJ says,this horse DESERVES a chance.

28 Dec 2010 8:06 PM
Horsefirst

Every horse deserves a chance.  BUT, there are those that will never lead a pain free life.  IF laminitis can be managed, that is one thing.  But as I said earlier, "progress" is not the same thing as getting a horse to a pain free life.

And for those that don't know, the stark reality in many areas, even in the country, is that a euthanized animal cannot be buried on the property.  Some zoning laws will not allow it.  The animal is then carted away to, I assume, a rendering plant where they will make whatever use of the animal they can.

So before you make too much of horses in Europe that need to be put down being sent to slaughter, if it is done as described, it is a humane as anything else.

It's a fairy tale to assume that we always get to say goodbye and bury them under their favorite tree.  My aged horse did get that, very many years ago.  The young one I lost much later, I was not allowed to, especially as it happened off my property.  Understand that as human population soars, so do the resources to keep people alive.  One of the reasons that zoning would keep you from burying a horse on your property is that it might contaminate the water. I'm guessing that parts of Europe are the same, if not more so.

No matter how we might like what we think is a noble and dignified ending, it's not always possible or even legal.

28 Dec 2010 9:05 PM
Lisa

What a story. Hope he continues to make progress.

First let me state my feelings on slaughter. You cannot compare horses to other livestock. They are not. People put them in the pet category. This is why people have a problem with slaughter. It is pretty much that simple.

As far as this horse being given a chance. I have rehabed two founder cases lately. My favorite mare, who is pasture sound, and my boarders horse who has rotation but has never taken a lame step. The number one prolem is to try to find the cause. Just guessing, his was lack of care. The obivious overweight, Metabolic disorder, and Chushings don't seem to apply.Bloodwork would tell that tell, checking for insulin and T4 levels. The hard ground just makes it harder. To say though that a foundered horse cannot have a quality life is BS. Sorry I have living proof that it can be managed and their quality of life can be very good. Some even being ridden again. What most people do not realize that until the acute phase is over it is unfair to diagnoise the horses chances. He will probably deal with chronic founder(my board horse does) but that does not mean that he cannot have a productive life. My mare made him look like he was walking sound. In the video this horse is definetely sore, but he is not walking in that crabwalk that he balances on his hind end not wanting to put weight on his front feet. There are many recommendations for treating laminitis, but it is all directed toward increasing the blood flow. Imediate foot care is a must. My guys that were bad were bedded on sand because it supports the sole of the foot better than other beddingsthrough their acute phase. Founder is a day to day management, and their are people out there who will do it. He is one of the lucky ones. No doubt he will find a home quickly because of the  attention he has gotten. My hat, as an owner, goes off to these people who are trying to give this horse a chance. It is sad to think that some people think a life is so cheap.

28 Dec 2010 9:07 PM
Mike Relva

LISA

Well said,some that have never as much as ridden a horse,but think they know everything  are a joke!

28 Dec 2010 10:18 PM
LAZMANNICK

Stardustyrose

Hey stranger.  How's it going.  I've been thinking about you lately wondering where you went and if you ar all right.  So glad to hear that you are back and I hope we hear more from you in 2011.

28 Dec 2010 10:42 PM
Barbara W

Thank you, Lisa, for that encouragement. Mike Relva, did you get us that report from Heart of Tucson today?

28 Dec 2010 10:54 PM
LAZMANNICK

JAJ

I think I know where you are coming from.  What you say makes some sense, but when trying to make sense you are displaying a definite lack of passion for animals and I believe that there is passion within you.  I say keep all animals alive as long as possible at all costs, but sometimes that is impossible because of lack of money (very poor excuse) and because it is too painful for the animals to keep them alive.  Only then, for the animal's sake, should euthanasia be considered.  However, many times it is possible too keep them alive so they can enjoy as much as they can during their limited time on earth.  As Mike Relva said, there is proof of one horse with laminitis living another ten years and living a quality life.  I'm sure that there are other cases out there where animals have been saved from needless execution.  And this shouldn't only concern horses and domesticated animals.  I do not hunt and I hate hunting.  If I had my way it would be banned also.

As Voyager said, take your lumps and move one.

28 Dec 2010 10:56 PM
Agree with JAJ

Mike Relva:

"AGREE WITH JAJ

You refer to yourself as a"thinker" if that's the case then you might consider what I've stated regarding the view point,comments of the director of where DK is now. After all,she's the individual that's with DK on a daily basis. One might come to the conclusion that POSSIBLY she might have greater insight being around him. Somehow I doubt JAJ is in the loop."

Mike Relva, I did say I would hope and pray for the best with DK but I also said that I respected JAJ's opinion, and to quote JAJ, the two aren't "mutually exclusive." JAJ has a valid point and doesn't deserve to be ganged up on as you and others have. You also have a valid point and haven't stooped to the level of accusing JAJ of wanting to euthanize Grandma, or claiming that JAJ is DrayNay (no one deserves THAT!!!) but some on here have done so. JAJ is very knowledgeable about many things, and as a owner/breeder, has offered much insight to this forum and educated a lot of people, including me, on many topics. JAJ also manages to rein in the overzealousness that can take hold here with reasoned and informative posts. I have been reading here since the beginning of the blog and I have learned a lot from the likes of you, Greg, JAJ, and Horsefirst, to name just a few. JAJ should not have to defend anything (s)he has said here.

29 Dec 2010 12:22 AM
Ted

As an independent observer, I think a lot of people are unfairly coming down on JAJ here.  JAJ has not conveyed anything remotely resembling hope that this horse's condition will worsen.  JAJ is merely indicating the reality that the prognosis for this animal is very very poor over the long haul (assuming he indeed has a rotated coffin bone).  A brief conversation with a veterinarian or farrier will confirm this.  The weight will go back on the horse soon enough and his emotional scars are curable, but nothing (at least not today) will rotate that coffin bone back into place.

Nevertheless, before those of us who have never seen this horse condemn him, do we know in fact that he's completely foundered?  It does look like it, but we're making some assumptions.  Realistically, I think our best hope is that the pictures and video don't tell the whole story and the coffin bone has not begun to rotate.  That seems to be the threshold.

I also think we should all be appreciative for the work these rescue groups do.  It is true they can't rescue every abandoned horse, they can and do help one at a time.  This is more than I can say for most of us, shamefully including myself.

As a breeder/owner/trainer of thoroughbreds (I own one mare), I would like to make very clear that I agree 100% with the notion that we maintain some moral resonsibility for the horses we breed, even after we no longer own them.  I also understand that this is very easy to say for a guy with one horse every couple of years to try and find a home for.  But for every retired horse of mine, a potential home is taken away from someone else's horse.

In regards to slaughter, I too find the practice distasteful, and it is not a choice that I have ever, nor will ever make for a horse of mine.  But its mere existence made it much easier for me to be able to retire horses from racing when the time comes.  I can still find homes for horses when I need to, but only because I'm so small scale.  Just like in musical chairs, not everyone has a seat when the music stops.  And as uncomfortable as the subject may be, we don't do these horses any favors by not addressing that reality.

Perhaps the point JAJ was making was that we might have been better off trying to ensure humane treatment of horses of all breeds destined for the slaughter house as the conditions before the ban were clearly abhorrent and disgraceful.  

I don't like the idea any more than anyone else here, but again, the numbers just don't add up.  There are 30 thousand plus thoroughbreds born every year. If 2/3 of fillies are retired to the breeding shed (a number I just made up), then we need to find homes for 20 thousand thoroughbreds every year - to say nothing about all the quarter horses, warmbloods, morgans, etc.

This is one of mankind's great moral failures, our timeless and crass exploitation of the trust our livestock puts in us.  Horses faired pretty poorly in every war up until WWII, so for whatever its worth, at least we don't subject them to war any longer.  So long as there is horse racing, we're going to have the issue of what to do with retired horses and I've yet to hear the solution that adequately addresses the real numbers involved.

In the meantime, give JAJ a break.  Nobody likes the idea of killing horses, even JAJ.  But is it really better to let them wander and starve to death?  We stand a better chance of solving this problem if we work together and work rationally.

Finally, Merry Christmas Dyna King.  I sincerely hope you recover to a good life and that you make it to a ripe old age.

29 Dec 2010 6:44 AM
JAJ

Ted,

According to this blog, the coffin bone is indeed rotated PLUS there is disintegration.

Greg J posted on December 22, 2010, 10:16 p.m:

"The X-Rays showed his right coffin bone has some rotation and some dissolving.  The left front was not quite as bad but showed some arthritis......"  I believe this to be a quote from the rescue, not Greg J's own words.

As a horseman, can you put some perspective of this horse's expected outcome and pain levels?

29 Dec 2010 8:13 AM
Kathy

It seems rather elementary to me anyway that the reason the rescues get the broken down horses is because the healthy and younger horses are the ones that the kill buyers go for. A stat I found interesting is that Mexico processed 78,000 tons, give or take, of horsemeat in 2009. Even if I could get passed the “ick” factor, which is doubtful, there still is the problem with how they slaughter the horses. Slaughterhouses slaughter horses the same way they slaughter cattle from what I’ve read and it most cases it doesn’t work very well. I am guessing that Europe developed a taste for horsemeat due to WWI and WWII that occurred not so long ago.

From what I’ve read, Dyna King would have never been sent to a slaughterhouse. He would have been euthanized and sent to a rendering plant. No killer buyer in his right mind would send a emaciated horse with infections to a slaughterhouse. It’s just  does not make good business sense.

Mike Relva,

I’ve been on a quarter horse or two in my lifetime, although it has been a few years ago and most likely I would now need a helping hand to get up on one now, either that or a step stool.

I know what I am about to say will cut into someone’s profits, but why not set some lottery that will limit the number of seats at the stuff farm. Or only allow a broodmare to have a foal every other year. And if you don’t follow the rules, you are fined. And hey, let the fine money go to horses like Dyna King who need assistance.

Here is a link where they discuss coffin rotation and how to make the horse more comfortable that has it.

www.equinechronicle.com/.../laminitis-in-horses-2.html

Despite what the practical folk are saying about your chances, I am still rooting for you Dyna King. Get better each and every day.

29 Dec 2010 9:45 AM
Slew

I am reading so many comments, most of them idealistic, and a few realistic.  I must applaud the horse rescues; they've done some very good work.

However, I cannot understand why everyone is attacking JAJ.  He merely exposed reality.  There are no easy solutions.  Now, every time he says something, he has to defend himself.  

Sorry JAJ...I have to agree with you. I believe you've made your point, but it's a point no one wants to hear.  Some animals have no future without great pain.  Sometimes hard choices must be made.  Our only hope is that those choices are made with the horse's best welfare in mind.

29 Dec 2010 10:02 AM
Mike Relva

AGREE W/JAJ

Well,everyone has a different opinion,I'm with Greg on this.

29 Dec 2010 10:58 AM
Mike Relva

JAJ

As expected you fail to address my point regarding the horse I mentioned at the Kentucky Horse Park that lived nearly ten yrs. BTW,visit there a few times every yrs to see Cigar and the horse w/issues lived life of quality.

29 Dec 2010 11:04 AM
Lisa

Just to give some people hope. Both of my mare's coffin bones had rotated and dropped.She is pasture sound. No riding but she walks and trots. Pain free. She wears bar shoes with pads on occasion. The pads are the desecration of my farrier. If she needs them we put them on for a while. We have even been able to leave her barefoot for a few rotations. The gelding that we ride both had rotated and if you did not look at his feet you would not know he is foundered.He still does low jumps. He rips around the pastures like a Sherman tank. He is a big QH.  No pain meds, no pads just consistent shoeing, which he does wear shoes on his front. But farrier work is a necessary for all horses so that is not an added expense if your are going to own one. I am not saying that this horse will ever be riding sound, but if these people choose to give him a chance then more power to them. He will be in pain for a while, but so are people who have problems with joints and muscles. The point being is that he has a chance to overcome that even with rotation. The ones that are hard to manage are the ones caused by Metabolic disorder and Chushings. I don't know why people always have to jump on the put down wagon. If people are willing to try he is a lucky horse. They will know if the time comes. If you have ever had to make that choice to take a life, then you know that you have to be sure. I will know when the time comes. I have owned horses over 27 years, and have had to make that decision. It is never easy.I do believe that this horse deserves a chance and if he is getting up under his own steam then he is still wanting a chance. If there comes a day he won't get up then that is a different story.For now I say let him fight his fight, look at all the other stuff he has overcome!

29 Dec 2010 11:12 AM
nmh

i have some questions... don't

these horses have a tattoe that will identify them.. we know that

he is dynaking.. can't we check

records for his owners.. particuly

his last owner.. have them pay for

what they have done to this horse.

the fact that he is dynaformer's

son and a race horse himself doesn't matter as much as what has

happened.. this kind of thing should not happen to any horse but

to a kentucky racehorse who won $$$

for his owner is outrageous... are

there laws in kentucky about this

kind of abuse...if not there should

be.. when a racehorse is sold it

should be recorded just who the new

ower is and on down the line.. so

his last owner should be held

responsible for his ungodly fate..

and held accountable... this has

garnered lots of notice so whoever

it is has to know what has happened

and should step forward... other

people who worked with him should

know who owned him.... why would

this be hard to find out..and

rectify....

29 Dec 2010 12:55 PM
JAJ

Mike Revla,

I didn't know you expected a response from me.  I thought it was pretty clear you wanted me to shut up.

Lots of horses live long lives with laminitis.  That should be no surprise to anyone.

How successful you are with a laminitic horse is directly related to how good the care is the horse got in the acute stage as well as the regular follow up care.  Even with the best of care and all the money in the world, you will often fail.

I would suspect at this point Dyna King needs a farrier and/or a vet in to see him every day or two for awhile and x-rays every week or two.  That's a lot of expensive visits from professionals who don't do this for free.

I don't know how bad the laminitis in the horse kept at Kentucky Horse Park was.  I severely doubt the Kentucky Horse Park is as underfunded as most rescues.

Dyna King has laminitis so bad that the coffin bone has rotated and there is disintegration of the coffin bone. The abscesses are likely a direct result of the rotation, but a vet would have to give the diagnosis.

I doubt the Kentucky Horse Park horse's feet were in as bad shape with as poor a prognosis as I suspect Dyna King's feet have.

29 Dec 2010 1:03 PM
Horsefirst

There is founder and the laminitis that can result from it.  I had a horse with metabolic issues that had a slight founder, got over it, no rotation, can't tell anything happened, sound.  But if that horse ever got loose to eat to its heart's content on green grass, it would do it in.

I could only look once at the pictures of Dyna King's feet.  Maybe there could be recoverd from rotation, depending on how much.  But disintegration of the coffin bone is not good.

Until you are in a situation where trying to save an animal with a questionable outcome could plunge you deep into debt, you don't know the stark realities that can blindside you.  Someone with an older horse, a herd to feed, a family, and who is perhaps now underemployed, is not going to spend thousands on, say, colic surgery.  And a vet would probably agree with that.  No one wants to have to make those choices but people who own horses have to every day.

I think one of the issues JAJ is trying to relate is, what do you do? Spend thousands on one horse with a poor prognosis or save ten others with the same money?  I have not read one answer to that.  That is a VERY tough question.

What would you do?  Here's 11 horses to save.  One of them will cost a bunch with a poor prognosis and if that money is spent on the one, the others will probably end up in Mexico.

NO one wants to answer that question but unfortunately, that is the question we face today as the economy and over breeding creates too many horses for people who can care for them.

There are no simple answers and the problem is huge and complex.  JAJ should not be getting flack for stating reality. Nor should JAJ or anyone else be accused of not caring for animals because they see the reality.  Those who have to deal with reality every day and do the best they can are on the front lines of the issues.  When you are in that front line you cannot afford anything but a realistic viewpoint. That is NOT the same as having no heart.  Actually, it's the people on the front lines who get their hearts torn apart dealing with issues that most people only read about on a blog.

29 Dec 2010 4:36 PM
Mike Relva

BARBARA W

To answer your question,I emailed this morn. haven't heard anything new but will let you know unless Greg hears first. Thanks for asking.

29 Dec 2010 5:10 PM
JAJ

nmh,

Dyna King's last race was almost 4 years ago (according to Greg J, February 2007).  He has probably changed hands a few times since then.

There really isn't a way to track his ownership once he leaves the racetrack.

Yes, he is tattooed, which is how they identified him, but who owned him last?  Who knows.  It would be nice to know, because like the rest on this blog, I would like to see his last owner punished for this.

It isn't feasible to set up an ownership registry for horses.  The FAA (I think it is the FAA) can't even keep the ownership for aircraft straight, and that is a national security issue.

29 Dec 2010 5:16 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

Would be great if you could attempt to spell my name correctly.

29 Dec 2010 6:03 PM
Agree with JAJ

According to Mike Relva's logic, because the horse at KHP lived 10 years with laminitis, Barbaro should have lived with it too. Sadly, we all know that was not the case. I will continue to pray for Dyna King. I'm sure no one wants to be wrong more than JAJ.

nmh, I wondered the same thing re: the owner, but I suspect (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that if the Jockey Club registration papers don't get transferred with the horse, anyone could end up with him, and while the horse could be easily identified by the lip tattoo, the chain of ownership is not so easy to flush out. Since many ex-racers end up in Dyna King's condition, I expect that they change hands a lot sometimes before they are found dead or close to death, or in the slaughter auctions, and then are only identified if someone decides to check for a lip tattoo. What if the horse wasn't sold, but was given away? There would then be no need for transfer of those papers, necessarily, and the last owner may not even have been aware that the horse had a lip tattoo. I hope I'm wrong in this respect, and that the last owner can be found and brought to justice for animal neglect and cruelty, and abandonment, if there is such an offense. In that case, I feel worse for those animals who have no pedigree to track and end up in the rescues and shelters just the same, or worse, don't end up in the rescues, and there is no way to find any proof of ownership.

Also, I want to re-mention that on 12/24, Linda/Maryland said that Dyna King could come live on her farm in Maryland, and I hope someone is in contact with her in regard to that offer - Linda, it is a most generous offer and if he survives, I hope he gets to live a long and happy life on your farm! If it comes to that, I will donate my money toward his transport costs to Linda's farm (or wherever he goes).

29 Dec 2010 6:47 PM
Lou in TX

We can all sing until the cows come home but we have no say in what happens to Dyna King/Gifted. I think everyone here cares about what will happen to him. Let's just keep in mind that Heart will do what's best for him.  They seem to be a kind, caring group of people. We'll all pray for the right thing to be done. Let's not bury this horse until we have all the facts from Heart. Let's all try to get along here. We all want the same thing.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions about him. We don't have to agree with everyone. Please just agree to disagree and let's get on down the road.

I'd love to hear anything new on our boys in Fla. Got a news update from Sally at Fair Hill and they are still having very cold weather there. Glad our boys are in Fla. I bet Margano is really growing. Would love to see a recent picture of him.

Have you all been keeping up with Zenyatta?  Go to Zenyatta.com and read her daily diary posts.  Some interesting things are going on at Lane's End. So sorry about the passing of one of their great stallions. John S. is trying to put together some new pictures of Queen Z rolling in the snow. She has a new friend named Pirate Queen, but we all know she is the REAL Queen.

Hope everyone has a very Happy New Year. 2011 will be here before we know it.

29 Dec 2010 7:11 PM
Barbara W

Thanks, Mike Relva,

We're depending on you and Greg to keep us updated.

29 Dec 2010 7:32 PM
nmh

jaj   thank you for answering my

questions.. these horses are

tatooed and registered so it would

seem to me that each time one is

sold that notice could be sent to

the registar of change in ownership

that is done with throughbred dogs.

i have papers on mine and if i sold

him i would notify the kennal club.

more work yes but there would be a

paper trail of ownership....

29 Dec 2010 7:47 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

Regarding Dyna King's past connections during his racing career.  Firmamento Corporation, owned and raced Dyna King for his first 17 races of his career, from 10/14/2000(Santa Anita) to 2/1/2003(Rillito).  Then Abbey Ofelia Figueroa owned Dyna King from 2/23/2003(Rillito) to 4/10/2005(Graham County Fair at Safford), a total of 37 races(in 26 months).  Mr. Joel S. Moreno, his last listed owner, raced Dyna King a total of 3 times, 4/24/2005, 5/8/2005, and 2/10/2007.

After that?  Here is what Mia Larocque, from Heart of Tucson, had to say today to that subject,

"I want to thank everyone for their wonderful donations for Gifted (Dyna King), be it through Paypal or snail mail.  All of us at Heart of Tucson have been truly touched by the kind words written in all the cards and letters we have been receiving including the emails from this forum.  Thank you, thank you."

"As for the responsibility issue, our research has taken us to a dead end.  There is no one to be solely accountable for Dyna King's demise.  Through a series of each previous owner doing what they thought was the best for the horse, the last owner ended up being an illegal Mexican who fled the country, returning to Mexico, leaving Dyna King with no food or water in a barren desert area.  It was this final owner that was at fault and we have no recourse.  However, this sad story is exactly why we must all be, not only responsible horse owners, but responsible horse sellers.  We all should know where our horses are going, What type of conditions will they be living in.  Can this person really afford this animal?  What if there is a costly vet bill or loss of a job?  Or what happens if they just lose interest?  Make sure you know where he is going.  Maybe even allow for the horse to come back if things just aren't working out.  Give the new owners an "out", a place they know that the horse can go to safely.

I, for one, believe every horse bought and sold, should include some sort of title/registration papers, complete with a bill of sale to make ownership more tracible and hold the owners more accountable.

Bless you all and have a safe Happy New Year."

 

Here is a statement from the President of Heart of Tucson, Judy Glore,.  Judy's comment is from yesterday(For those of you that are not aware, Judy's son, Sean, was in a horrible motorcycle accident on December 19th).

"Hi everyone, sorry I have been out of touch for the last week. I had an emergency of the family.  I came home today to check on the horses and the first stall I went to was Gifted's aka Dyna King. I know him as gifted the name he was given when he got here, because we don't usually know who they are, or what they have had to endure. We just pick up the pieces and try to get them better. He greeted me at the front of his stall, he was standing with his front legs square instead of crossed, and my heart was so full. My son had another surgery today for skin grafts, and I got the phone call that he was trying to talk, and watch a football game, lol. I can't tell you how happy I am right now, Sean is getting better, and we can't explain why he is even alive, Gifted is getting better, and we can't explaine why he is alive. There is a lesson here for me and I will know it soon, god willing.
I will never give up on saving horses, and people. That is my job, as a mother, as a horse lover, as a human being. We have the facility, and people that can help us do this, thank you everyone that has donated to Gifted, you all have given me hope to go beyond our means, a keep pushing for the best for them. My son took out insurance three weeks ago, he is covered, you all are helping with gifted, Dyna King. We were torn with depleting the funds for him but we were ready to. Life is precious, there is no price tag you can set for those that are willing to fight the fight to come back to see another day. Thank you Greg for doing so much research for him, and the story you wrote. We are an unknown rescue that just wants to see all these horses have their day. Everyone on this site, thank you for your donations, they were really needed, and we like to think the King came here to help himself and the others. He truly is the Gifted. He is going to rock again next year and take names. I can't wait to see how this
Sweet boy let's America know that no one is safe, and it takes equine angels like you all to help them pull through the hells they might land in, but you are there for them. I need to sign off, long Day tomorrow with both the boys, they have one he'll of a fight. And for any of those that say put him down??????  Would you give up so quickly on you own son????  The road is long, painful, and sometimes unforgiving,
But the rewards are Freedom, laughter, love, and in some cases a bag of carrots, and a loving human to give that unforgettable brush down. My sons hands are tied to his bed so that he cant pull his staples out of his head, he loves when I rub his skin, and
brush his teeth and just talk softly to him. He is healing, and so is Dyna King. I can't wait till they meet. OMG"


Judy Glore
President of HEART of Tucson

 

29 Dec 2010 8:14 PM
JAJ

Nmh,

It doesn't usually work that way in the Thoroughbred world.  If I remember correctly, I had to notify The Jockey Club that I owned my mare before my mare had her first foal at 7 years even though I had owned and raced that mare since she was a yearling.

I have given many horses away.  I have kept the papers to make sure they are never raced again, and with the fillies, to ensure they are not bred.

Many, many horses are given away or sold for a very small amount.  Papers don't always follow the horse or become lost along the way.

Besides, the Thoroughbred breed makes up a small portion of the unwanted horse problem.  I suspect that the majority of horses that need rescue never were registered.

29 Dec 2010 8:19 PM
Agree with JAJ

Thanks, Greg and Heart of Tucson, for the update. If only every person who brings a foal into this world, races, sells, or buys a horse, would follow those guidelines and make sure those questions have answers before taking possession of a horse.

Blessed New Year to you folks at Heart too.

29 Dec 2010 9:05 PM
Lou in TX

WOW!!!!  What a lady. Both boys are fighting. She certainly has her hands full. Glad both boys are getting the treatments they need. How can you agrue with that?

Thanks Greg for sending this message to us. We'll keep both boys in our prayers and hope the out come is good for both.

29 Dec 2010 9:50 PM
Barbara W

God bless you, Judy, for being our hands and our hearts there in Tucson. Will be praying for BOTH of your boys!

29 Dec 2010 9:50 PM
Mike Relva

 AGREE WITH JAJ

That's absurd! Don't place words in my mouth. With Barbaro EVERYTHING was done and in the end all options were used. This is a totally different case regarding DK. The horse Gyspy Supreme was a different case than Barbaro,he was able to live a QUALITY life for a very long time. You label yourself a "thinker",use your brain.

29 Dec 2010 10:04 PM
Mary

Just like with any animal, dog, cat, horse, you want to know where they are going.  When I find a home for a cat or dog, I make it clear that if it doesn't work out my loving arms are wide open to welcome them back home to me.

It's a moral issue.  Putting any animal down should be a last resort.  That's the way it was with Barbaro, and the horse racing world learned a lot from him.  This most beautiful creature of God fought the good fight, and in the end, he actually won.  Barbaro brought us one step further in understanding and treating laminitis.  

His legacy will be not only winning the Kentucky Derby, but his undying will to survive.

29 Dec 2010 10:06 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

Thanks for your update regarding DK.

29 Dec 2010 10:09 PM
Penny in TX

Thanks for the update on Gifted/Dyna King. Judy and her boys are in my thoughts and prayers. Here's to 2011 and speedy recovery of Judy's son and Gifted.

I also agree that putting any animal down should be the last resort. It is a very painful decision.

Thanks for the update. Everyone have a safe and Happy New Year.  

29 Dec 2010 11:54 PM
Ted

We lost a wonderful horse when we lost Barbaro.  He had uncommon class.  Sad as it was to relive, I was still very moved by the HBO special I'm sure we all saw.  I thought Barbaro's courage and class were nothing less than inspiring.

Though I've only had one animal euthanized (a cocker spaniel), I do advocate a simple rule for making the decision.  That is, if this animal could talk, what would they want?  There are times, like George the cocker spaniel when I believe the animal has had all they can take.  I suspect Barbaro was at that point too.  I trust the new caretakers of Dyna King will make the right call.  I watched the video of him walking in the paddock and though obvioously very sore, I've seen horses in worse shape.  However, we should all keep our fingers crossed because even taking in to account the individual success stories that we periodically hear about, the majority of horses in this condition do not make it.

An useful analogy might be a young horse that has a bow.  Sure, The Tin Man had bows in both front legs that he ran his entire career with (injured as a 2yo I believe).  But for every Tin Man, there are hundreds of horses that got the year off, were handled with patience, ice, slower, low impact training, etc. that re-bow before they ever make it back to the races.

Both the bowed 2yo example and Dyna King present us as caretakers with similar dilemmas.  How do we handle the dissonance that sometimes occurs when managing the health of a single individual (high hopes, emotional reasoning) vs. the health of the overall population (cold, rational, heartless, statistical analysis)?

Oh wow, man.  That's heavy.

30 Dec 2010 3:22 AM
Leeward

Life is a circle. I checked in to the BH tonite and somehow found my way to the Tucson horse rescue site, Lord knnows there are rescue people closer to Manassas VA than AZ but somehow I wanted to give THEM the little I can afford. Of course I than saw the Dynaformer link which led me back to the BH. Life is a circle. I will never own a Derby winner nor ride an Event champion.Humbly, I give what I can.

Remember, Mary rode to Bethlahem on the back of an Equid.

30 Dec 2010 7:02 PM
Mary

Ted, you are right, we lost a most beautiful horse, Barbaro.  It is still hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that Barbaro, in the Kentucky Derby, ran the last quarter mile as fast as the great Secretariat.  He was a super horse.

What makes me happy is that LaVille Rouge is in foal to another Barbaro full sibling. If you look at LaVille Rouge's pedigree, you will see why Barbaro was so great.

30 Dec 2010 9:37 PM
Lou in TX

Leeward...Thank you soo much for donating to Dyna King/Gifted. He needs all the help he can get. Just keep him in your prayes. Sometimes they work wonders.

Haven't seen you on this site before so welcome. It can get a little heated sometimes but don't let that keep you from posting. We welcome all FOB's (Friend or Fan of Barbaro) and even those who are not.

Here's wishing everyone a very Happy and Healthy New Year in 2011.

30 Dec 2010 10:03 PM
Nik in CA

I found out about Dyna King plight reading through blogs on Zenyatta.com and one of her fans put out the plea to help this brave horse.  I would like to donate something but need the address to send to.

30 Dec 2010 11:09 PM
Greg J.

Nik in CA,

Thank You!  Here is the address, just click Donate in left margin.

heartoftucson.org/DynaKing.html

30 Dec 2010 11:19 PM
Linda/Maryland

Thanks So much for the update on Dyna King. We are so glad to hear he is progressing.

I am also glad to hear that Judy's son is getting better too.

The Lord works in mysterious ways~!!

31 Dec 2010 1:25 AM
Mike Relva

TED

The Tin Man was managed with patience and given time off for injuries during his career.

31 Dec 2010 6:11 PM
JAJ

Mike Relva,

You completely missed Ted's point, which was that many, many horses who are managed with patience and given the time off don't make it back to the races, even though everything is being done to get them there.

01 Jan 2011 12:16 PM
PatC

Any updates???

01 Jan 2011 1:08 PM
needler in Virginia

You know, it's occurred to me that everyone is saying the same thing in different ways. Not one person here wants any animal to suffer......sound right? Not one person here would ask an animal to suffer because the word "euthanasia", while repugnant, is the outcome.... does that sound right? Several of us, including JAJ, have said our piece and have been hollered down for it, most likely for manner rather than content. Others have invoked all sorts of arguments, and have been agreed with, most likely for manner rather than content........sound right? Why can't we agree to disagree on how we say things? JAJ has valid, reasonable points that MUST be evaluated in decision making....and that's what we ALL do when caring for our animals: we make decisions FOR them regarding how their lives are led and ended. Hell, my own mother used to talk about how most of her dogs just "ran off" and the family never knew just what happened to them. I can tell you what probably happened to those "lost" animals, but you already know anyway. I hope we've come a bit further than THAT in the care of our animals, but those were the days that animals ran loose, un-vetted, unconfined and vulnerable. These days I would hope we all know exactly where everyone of our animals is all the time....this, of course, does NOT apply to our Sicilian donkey who thinks her place is hidden from view just in case she might need her feet trimmed. I'm not even gonna comment on the poster who bragged her horses had not had their teeth floated in umpty years. YIKES!

Another point is that there ARE "charities" that steal from goodhearted people who care....JAJ is right that we should evaluate ANY place that tugs our heartstrings to get our money. HEART appears to be a good organization with the best interests of the horses at heart (sorry!); I checked them out and that's why I did send them a donation and am glad of it. I also know that the attempt to save Gifted might fail; if it does, it will be a tragedy, but sometimes we CANNOT SAVE EVERY ANIMAL. Rather than prolong a life to give ourselves the warm fuzzies we should examine exactly what motives WE have in prolonging a life of unending          pain. Animals know immediate pain; they respond to it accordingly. Humans can know that the pain might (or might NOT end) and respond accordingly. It's ENTIRELY up to the caretakers to recognize the situation for what it is, and to respond humanely and accordingly. I would be angered, shocked and dismayed if HEART chose to keep Gifted alive and in pain, AND I would want my money back RIGHT NOW. Why not cut everyone some slack? I KNOW JAJ does not WANT to hear that Gifted has been euthanized unless it was necessary.....NO ONE DOES. I'll say that again: NO ONE DOES. JAJ, and others, have simply told the truth about the situation as he sees it; I happen to agree for the most part. SEE? Even on this, we are saying the same thing in different ways.

Will everyone PLEASE take a step back, see Gifted as the representative of a HUGE problem and see the solution as NOT SO DAMN MANY HORSES BEING BRED? WIth fewer candidates for the kill trucks, there MIGHT be more homes for the horses that need saving, but we are being flooded with unwanted critters.....horses, dogs, cats....you name it, someone is trying to get rid of it. Around here, people are driving their LOADED horse trailers into the night and unloading them in other peoples' pastures. WAKEY, WAKEY: you now have four new horses in your pasture!

Right now, however, there ARE these animals to manage and all the reputable rescues are going to have to make a "Gifted decision" daily for quite a while.......... so, please, cut others some slack about decisions like this; each of us has to handle the emotional upheaval a case like this causes.

And JAJ, I really DO know about how the TB industry uses terms like "half-brother" or "full sibling"; I just liked yanking your chain..............

Cheers and safe trips to every last one of us!

01 Jan 2011 6:38 PM
Greg J.

Happy New Year to everyone!  

As we start 2011 with Barbaro's brothers all turning a year older(Nicanor 5, Lentenor 4, Margano 2), let's hope it is a safe year for all!  

Here is the latest update on Dyna King/Gifted.  Again, I cannot express my gratitude enough to all that have helped Dyna King on his road to recovery!  So, Thank You Dyna King, HEART of Tucson, and all that have sent their donations and prayers.  Seeing the latest update and video is a great way to start 2011!

From Judy, President of HEART of Tucson:

Rotated coffin bones can go back to a position to where the horse can function again without pain. As far as the deminerialzation of the coffin bone he has what he has. That can't come back. He has some deminerialzation of the coffin bone, but not enough that he can not be helped. His back feet are normal, they were just grossly over grown, and they can be 100 percent again. His back end has taken all his weight for at least a couple years so he is muscle attrophied in the rear end, and all over from not being able to move for so long. He has had an egg bar shoe put on his front left and medication put in the foot. we also put a pad on the left hoof with frog support.  He can walk so much better now on that foot and we are working on his right hoof as well. His right hoof still has abcesses right where the shoe should go so we are getting those cleared up before we add a shoe to that hoof. We did another video today of him walking and he is walking out square now and moving at a wonderful pace. He will continue to do great and before long he will be trotting again. There are always people that say this can't be done, but if we believed that we would never be able to save these guys and we would think it can't be done too. Since we have done this several times now with great success, we don't give up on them. Like Tom Smith said it in Sea Biscuit "You don't throw a life away just because it's beat up."  We are doing a lot more with supplements for him as well too, lots of joint sups. He is getting out for a walk now everyday to rebuild his back end. They are short but he is getting stronger everyday, and soon he will be doing the gentle hills we have on our track here. We also put him on gastro guard for his ulcers, and cimetidine to help buff his stomach from the bute. We also have him on probiotics to replace the good bacteria in his stomach that the antibiotics destroyed. Mainly it just takes time, lots of love, and great people around him to give him the security that he needs to keep going. He looks forward to his buckets on time everyday now and knickers to all of us. His eyes are so much brighter, and he is starting to fill out again. He has a reason now to live again and he is going to make it. We all believe that with all our hearts.

I just uploaded a new video of Gifted today from about an hour ago. You can see his color starting to come back and the weight going back onto him, but most of all you can see the difference in his walk. He doesn't stand with his front legs crossed anymore to ease his pain. He is coming back to us and I really can't wait to do his next video so we can really watch his transformation.  I was so happy to get him out into the sunshine today. He used to take 20 minutes to get to the arena, one hard step after another, now he is walking out so wonderful. We have a long way to go, but you have to give this kid some real credit here, lol. He is not a quitter. I love his spirit, and that drive to do better. He is teaching us all a lesson here. He truly is Gifted.

Video of Dyna King today, January 1, 2011:

Youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch

Facebook:

www.facebook.com/.../video.php

Here is his video from three weeks ago, December 12, 2010:

Youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch

Facebook:

www.facebook.com/.../video.php

In just three weeks, he looks alot better, both in his walk and physically.  While he has a very long road to go, seeing Dyna King in this latest video was a great way to start 2011!

01 Jan 2011 6:57 PM
Mike Relva

GREG J

Thanks very much for your latest update,I'm calling sometime Monday and will give an update from what I learn. It's always expected that everyone sometimes has a different opinion,but what some fail/or don't want to realize is it's about DK,not someone's fragile ego.Thanks as always for your insight,your caring and class and your  valuable opinion.

01 Jan 2011 7:33 PM
Dona

Happy New Year Greg, Heart Personnel and Dyna King/Gifted. Seeeing his improvement is a glorious beginning for 2011! I think my donation for his care was the best buy of the year for me. Can't thank everyone enough for this wonderful endeavor. I know he has a long way to go but three cheers for Dyna King/Gifted!

01 Jan 2011 8:56 PM
K-piece

JAJ-Silly to leave posts about slaughtering on a blog like this.  What do you expect to get in response wether you have a point or not?  I have always followed this blog and the one thing it is about is hope and sometimes blind hope at that.  The only thing thing you have done by posting here is created a captive audience for yourself and your musings which is a little self-indulgent to say the least.

And no matter how noble you present your points to be it is out of line to insinuate that the people who rescued Dyna-King would be keeping him alive if he were suffering.  If this horse were seriously suffering it would be in humane to keep him alive.  You can't seriously begin to even think that the people of Tucson would be doing this given the publicity this horse has gained.  Not to mention they are routinely presenting updates and posting videos.  

Be serious now that horse is not suffering right anymore and you know it.

01 Jan 2011 11:45 PM
Lou in TX

Cheers for Dyna King/Gifted. This will be a great new year for him. He has such caring and loving friends taking care of him.

What a great way to start 2011!!

Happy New Year to you Greg and everyone on this site. May 2011 be a healthy and happy one.

Greg be sure and let us know if you hear anything about our brothers or LVR.

02 Jan 2011 12:03 AM
Barbara W

Mike Relva--Thanks for promising to check on him and let us know.

A while back I sent a contribution to help a horse injured in his paddock The vet bills were more than any of us "regular" people could have afforded. But I figured that if we all banded together and sent a little, we could do it. His name was Diego; he was at the Univ. of TN Animal Hosptal, and to this day I get their magazine. He was released to go home after a lengthy treatment. I just remember thinking if our horse were badly injured, I would SO appreciate people pitching in to help.

02 Jan 2011 12:27 AM
JAJ

K-Piece,

Banning slaughter did not solve the problem of unwanted horses.  For many horses it made it much, much worse.  That is something many on this blog are not aware of.

There is not doubt that Dyna King IS seriously suffering now.  The first question is, can his suffering be alleviated?

My second question is, should large sums of money be spent attempting to save one horse who will never have a useful life other than as a pasture ornament when many more could be saved with the same scarce financial resources.  That's a valid question.

The majority on this blog feel that they prefer to save this one horse and let several others suffer probably because this one has a face, a name and a genetic connection to Barbaro.  There is nothing wrong with choosing the one over the many.

If Dyna King developed colic, would you perform the surgery or put him down?

02 Jan 2011 6:59 AM
Greg J.

JAJ,

First,

Happy New Year to you JAJ.

Second,

JAJ, just a suggestion, maybe a New Year's resolution for you could be to look at the POSITIVE things in life?  In your latest comment, NO mention on how Dyna King/Gifted has progressed in the three weeks since HEART of Tucson saved him, NO mention on how much BETTER he looks in his new video.  Instead, you concentrate on the same questions you had asked earlier.

In your statement about Dyna King/Gifted, as you say, "who will never have a useful life other than as a pasture ornament".  Is he not alive?  Is he not getting better?  Is he getting that chance at life he deserves and has earned?  Is he dignity restored?The answer to those questions are a resounding YES due to people helping him in his fight, and his will to survive.  In his long fight to survive, if he lives out his life as a "pasture ornament", well, I bet HE would think he is "useful" as well as all those that he inspired in his fight, agree?

As far as the guilt trip you seem to convey by writing people that help Dyna King/Gifted are letting others suffer by doing so, then you follow up with saying, "There is nothing wrong with choosing the one over the many".  First, it is obvious where you stand, which is fine, everyone has their own opinion, but, who are you to say Dyna King's life isn't worth it?  Who are you to say that the money spent on his recovery isn't worth it?  

Seriously, TRY to look at the positive things in life JAJ, life is too short not to...

02 Jan 2011 8:59 AM
Horsefirst

Again I will state, most of you don't- or won't- GET what JAJ is trying say to you. And by trying to get you to see the overall reality of the situation, JAJ is being far more positive, proactive, and trying to insure a better future for all, than getting upset over the reality that maybe by saving the one, many are lost.  Some of you took that as a springboard to sling arrows rather than try to have a polite discourse on the huge problem of too many horses.  

As I asked, more directly in this blog, what would you do?  You have 11 potential horses to save.  All need feed, medicine, vet care, farrier care, money for bedding, etc., etc., etc.  The list goes on and on.  ONE of those horses will take all the money that could be spent on the other 10, 10 who will have a good recovery and be adoptable animals and useful beyond a pasture ornament.  Face it, that makes it more likely the rescue will see them go out the door to a good home and quickly. There is no more money at hand.  What do you do?  Here's the truckload of 11 horses and because you have limited funds and are at the end you your credit, you can either save one or ten.  No one on this board will answer that question and it's a legitimate one.  Is it something ANYONE wants to do? Absolutely not.  Is it reality?  Yes.

If you spend all your money on the one horse, the rest go on to Mexico.

THAT is the reality that JAJ is trying to get you to understand and that a lot of you refuse to address. I'm glad that you feel the need to help this horse but honestly, what if at the same time those 10 others are headed to Mexico because of it?

I'm glad that Dyna King seems to be doing better.  It would be best if some philanthropic, experienced horse owner would take him on now and complete his care with the costs involved.  It can happen but rarely.

Most of you have no idea how much money is involved in the treatments described above. Your hearts are in the right place but a lot of you don't understand how expensive a healthy horse is, let alone one with an ailment. Unless the rescue is getting professional care for free, and no vet or farrier could afford to do it for free for very long.

Dyna King should go to a private individual now, with check ups to insure the care given, so the horse rescue can afford to take in others.

Do not take what JAJ said lightly about rescues that are not legit.  They exist and they do take people's money.  It is wise and best to check up on the legitimacy of such organizations.  Those of us who frequent other blogs hear of the stories about the fake rescues.

Meanwhile, getting veterinary collages and vet clinics to do lower cost castration clinics would go a long ways as a start.  I think Washington State University is having one.  It's more complicated to spay a mare but you can at least get some stallions off the breeding roster this way.  As money becomes more tight for people, they may put off or not geld that colt that has no real value as a breeding animal.

And the story about suddenly finding another horse in your pasture is happening all the time, all over.  

02 Jan 2011 12:05 PM
JAJ

Greg J,

Really, you read too much into what I write.

There is nothing wrong with being a pasture ornament.  Pasture ornament is a term of endearment used by people who have them.  I love the term.  It says it all--something kept in a pasture because it is an ornament, which in my books is something pretty, valuable or something to that effect.  But, pasture ornaments have fewer options for finding homes than horses that can be used for something else.  Also, DK will need a lot of specialized care for the rest of his life if he can be made comfortable.  I don't think many on this blog are aware of the long-term needs of this horse.

My points are still valid and have nothing to do with a guilt trip.  There is nothing wrong with choosing the one over the many.  I'm just not sure people are always aware they are making that choice.

02 Jan 2011 12:33 PM
Lou in TX

Thank you Greg!!!!  It's soo much happier being a positive person in life rather than dwelling on the negative. Wonderfully put!! Thank you again. I think we (all) are really tired of the negative attitude from JAJ. This person has the right to be negative if they so chose but let's hope they can learn to be a more positive person and a happier person in life.

02 Jan 2011 1:19 PM
Clay Harper

All the horses Heart rescues are treated the same.  Gifted is no exception They are ALL taken care of with deep commitment on the part of every person at Heart.

I know this because I work with Heart and am committed to their cause.

I came to see Gifted on December 15th, not knowing who he was at the time, Heart had no idea who he was either. After spending some time with him in his stall it was very clear to me that he had the will to live. I make my living helping horses recover from people who do not understand them. He will survive and do well, Guaranteed!

Jacquie and  I have been soliciting feed and medicine from our sponsors for him, and all the horses at Heart. UPS keeps coming with needed essentials every day.

Thank you all for giving to Heart!  I know personally that all of what you send goes directly to the horses.

Come to the Southern Arizona Horse Expo January 15-16 at the University of Arizona Farm in Tucson Arizona and see John Lyons work with 2 of the rescues from Heart.

Go to clayharperhorsemanship.com for more information.

Clay Harper

02 Jan 2011 1:29 PM
Windy City

JAJ,

could you please elaborate what's wrong with "pasture ornament"??? And what's in your mind describing a horse "useful"? Ya know, I'm blonde and sometimes I can misunderstand some allusions.....You surely didn't mean that the horse should be keep alive only when he can be "useful" and be able to earn for his life over and over again......didn't you?

In the case the "blonde in me" was right and you meant it.....I really hope your kids don't share your point of view on that matter and won't "let you go" when you become not "useless", and then MAYBE, just maybe, you would understand how precious being of the "pasture ornament" could be.....

02 Jan 2011 1:47 PM
Ragsy

GregJ

This wonderful for Dyna King such a blessing to have 2nd chance at life. I seem to look at all horses as if they are Barbaro it doesnt matter if they are not.

to the naysayers sosdd.    

02 Jan 2011 1:59 PM
CLee

Greg thank you for this story and thank you to all who have helped this wonderful creature. I wish he could be my "pasture ornament" for the rest of his life. Heavens I am nearing the "pasture ornament phase" of my life, and I am grateful that no one is talking up my euthanasia. I check every day to see how this guy is doing. His purpose and usefulness just might be to bring hope and joy to many fans like me. I'm so grateful that he was found by good people and his story has been told. It was his fate.  

02 Jan 2011 2:35 PM
Lou in TX

Clay Harper...thank you soooo much for your commitment to those horses at Heart. And you are probably that kind of person to all horses. The world needs more people like you. Good luck on keeping and taking car of all the horses at Heart. You all are in our prayers daily. Please convey our thanks to all involves at Heart.

02 Jan 2011 2:42 PM
CLee

Greg,

How ironic that after I emailed you I read the Word for the Day at Gratefulness.org.  "Riding sidesaddle with envy is a dangerous practice: I would be happy if I had what he or she possesses. By contrast, giving thanks constantly and in all circumstances liberates us from envy." [Edward Hays]

I hope none will be envious but grateful for the turn of events that have helped Dyna King to find health, safety, and comfort. Kinda goes along with your plea for looking on the positive side.  

02 Jan 2011 2:58 PM
Dona

JAJ - This is my last written word to you on this subject because unfortunately it's you that doesn't understand what is being said and why. One only has to analyze you comments to see that whether you acknowledge it or not, you show very little passion for animals or people and instead speak from you "head". No, it's not a case of being rational, it's obstinate and given what this blog is about, borders of being down right stupid. You don't seem to understand that some kind individuals give you the benefit of the doubt and still try to reason with you. Kudos for their good hearts and I respect them for that but I'm not in that group. You have the right to express your opinion but when it flies in the face of reality, one must question your motives. Perhaps Mike Relva is right and it's just a case of ego but it seems to me a loss of respect and credability are not something to take lightly. Your comments are at times rude and outrageous and then feign misunderstanding as the culprit rather that acknowledging how confrontational your comments are. I can't quite grasp the value of your stance in light of what's been said. I, for one, would have taken Voyager's advice and just let it slide because it's a no win situation. What is your problem? Why can't you just shut up? I have agreed with you in other matters before and have also kept quiet when I disagreed with you but this is different. It's about Dyna King/Gifted, the fight to save him, his progress and the value of our contributions towards his care. Whether it's because he's a Dynaformer progeny doesn't matter, if it means people will respond, more the better because this is the "Tracking Barbaro's Brothers" blog, is it not? Just because the breeding industry doesn't call him that (yes, everyone knows and understands why) doesn't mean it's not biologically true, does it? Move on! It's a positive thing!  Greg brought this to our attention because of that fact and knew we would respond because we have no right to take on about love and support for Barbaro's legacy and not come to the aid if possible of Dyna King. That's the important thing here. The horse is improving, the videos prove that and Heart says so. Enough already.

Here's the old stand-by analysis of choosing what is logical:

You, Your mate, Child and mother are in a boat and it's sinking. No one can swim but you and you can only save one. What would you do?

The answer has always been, your mother. Why?  Because she's the only person you cannot replace.

Is that what you would do? Is that what I would do? Doesn't matter, it's the answer whether we like it or not and nothing you or I say will change it. No matter what the answer is, you will do as you see fit, as will I, as will anyone.  The point?  Deciding what horse to save or what person, either is a very personal choice and none of your business. Heart will decide how they do business because it's their business. Don't agree? Don't participate.

02 Jan 2011 3:35 PM
Patricia Guthrie

I'm so glad you brought this to our attention.  The more abused horses that are made public, the more likely that those who can make a difference--will.  

I'm wondering if this horse's breeder will take him back and pension him.  (I don't know the breeder.  It could be a Gainsway or Claibourne, or it could be a back yard breeder.  

I will be making a donation too.

God bless this horse. The devil take the owners. (bit harsh, I admit)  

I wonder if they will put him up for adoption or if they will keep him there.

02 Jan 2011 4:05 PM
Judy Glore

Hi everyone, I wanted to let you all know that Gifted is doing great today. Everyday that passes he gets better and better. Having Gifted here has not cost us a dime out of our funds for the other horses because he has wonderful people, and I mean most of you that have sent us donations, and prayers for his care. Had he not come to us he would have died for sure. As it is, his brother Barbaro has made it possible to save Gifted through all of you, and as for Gifted, he now has made it possible to save many other horses who are just dumped. He is bringing an awareness to many people that love and care for the well being of horses. If we thought he didn't have a chance of a life without pain, and suffering we would also do the right thing by him and not let him suffer, but as long as we keep seeing him get better, we will fight this fight with him and not give up on him like others would have. Look at Streakin Kitty in our video, she was worse than Gifted, and had we stopped trying for her she could never run, and buck and play like she does today. His feet have been neglected and he was stuck in a small pen where he couldn't move around for at least 2 years. That doesn't mean his life is over now, and this condition is permanent, it means now he has food, medical, and therapy, a chance to come back to a great life again. Thank you to all of you that believe in him like we do. Happy New Year everyone, and God Bless you all.

02 Jan 2011 4:11 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

Judy Glore, who posted the previous comment, is the President of HEART of Tucson.  Thank You Judy and all at HEART of Tucson for everything you do!

02 Jan 2011 4:27 PM
Mike Relva

DONA

Good points! I don't see in any way,shape,form,whatever that JAJ'S day is worsened by efforts being made to save DK. It's not like JAJ is being robbed,is it? Yes, I stand by my point of certain individual's ego that can't handle. Pretty arrogant considering someone that isn't DIRECTLY INVOLVED in saving this poor horse.

02 Jan 2011 4:41 PM
Mike Relva

GREG J

Very compelling points you stated to JAJ. You're correct,I don't see him remarking on the progress,it's a redundant neg. focus on what a "chore" or bother this process is. We all know  this work on DK will be a work in progress. You and I also know if it was up to JAJ poor DK would be left to perish in the desert. But,it's not up to him,is it? I've stated this before,THIS HORSE DESERVES EVERY CHANCE TO ATTEMPT A RECOVERY. You will never know Greg the disdain I have in general for those that has little regard for any animal. My opinion is for this type of blog,JAJ has a personal agenda. Do you hear him cheering DK on?

02 Jan 2011 4:54 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

You underestimate,cause I'm ONE that understands the long term care this horse will have. You seem bright,but please don't have the false illusion you are the only one on here with a brain.

02 Jan 2011 4:58 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

You can continue(and I know you will) to protest efforts to save DK,but the bottom is you can kick and stomp and IT'S NOT GOING TO ALTER THE EFFORT BEING MADE. They will continue without your blessing,so in the end you're really wasting your time. You're not winning here!

02 Jan 2011 5:05 PM
Barbara W

Judy, God bless you for your love and care of DK and for keeping us informed. We pray your son is progressing as well. Please continue to keep us informed. I check here every day.

To the naysayers--

We sent help for DK because he was the one we were informed about. You do as much good as you can, as often as you can, as fast as you can, and as generously as you can. That's the bottom line.  My little donation doesn't mean much, but it is multiplied when others join with me.

Love is a force that always wins. It may not win every battle, but it wins the war every time.

02 Jan 2011 5:26 PM
IVY77

Thank you so much for the updates and video.  He is looking so much better.  Thank you, Hearts of Tucson!

02 Jan 2011 5:57 PM
Brandi

Dona,

Your boat sinking answer is completely wrong. It should be the child. They are just starting life. The other 2 have all ready had some sort of life.

And who are you to tell someone to shut up. Your the big mouth.

Go Gifted, you can make it.

02 Jan 2011 8:46 PM
Dona

Mike Relva,

I share your disdain and make no bones about it.

Giving money isn't the only way to help support the cause, sometimes just words of encouragement are all people can give and that's okay and mightily welcomed.

Judy/Greg,

Thank you for the encouraging words regarding DK and keeping us informed of his progress. Wonderful news about this poor guy and it seems he has his sires' spirit, huh? Most of us understand the process you have described and are aware that it will take time  and you have our deepest thanks. Thanks for being there.

Judy,

You do not owe us an explanation about the funds and how they are being used. You are the one handling the rescue operation and you know exactly what has to be done. Thank you for taking the time during your busy day to post for us. You sound like a wonderful human being. Best wishes to you and yours.  

02 Jan 2011 10:31 PM
Agree with JAJ

First, let me say that the report from Heart and the second video is encouraging, from a layman's POV, and I will continue to pray for Gifted/DK.

Mike Relva, please stop posting like JAJ wants DK to die! I'm sure that nothing could be farther from the truth. And whomever keeps making the insinuation that JAJ wouldn't hesitate to pull the plug on Grandma just because (s)he used the word <gasp> "euthanasia," that is really uncalled for.

Greg, I don't think that JAJ is negative at all, only pointing out facts and seeking solutions. The do-gooders who ended slaughter in America doomed lots of horses to a slow, painful death of starvation and neglect. Some of those might have gone to slaughter in the US, which, distasteful as it is, at least they would have died quickly (even if painfully, sad as that is, but the suffering is short-lived). But now,either they STILL go to slaughter (because it didn't end, it just changed locations), but get packed like sardines into a truck and hauled to Mexico or Canada, where conditions are completely out of our control, or they end up like DK, sick, starving, and wandering in the desert. No one here WANTS horses to go to slaughter, but the sad reality is that sometimes the fate of these poor animals is even worse. I'm sorry the very word "slaughter" sets some people off like it does, but maybe face the facts of equine overpopulation and see that sometimes it is a viable option. We'd like to save them all, but all the money that FOBs can muster cannot possibly save every horse in this country that needs saving. I think that stricter regulations on slaughter, to make it more humane, would have been a better alternative than ceasing it altogether. You all can flame me and hate me all you want to. You can't change reality. You can't change the economic conditions of this country, such that the pretty pony you bought for your kids when you had a job is now a liability, and given the choice of feeding the pony or feeding the kids, you would obviously choose your kids. You can't sell or give away the pony because all your neighbors are in the same boat, your shelter doesn't take large animals or is already chock-full, as are the rescues, so the pony suffers because you can't even sell it for slaughter.

I know the problem is much larger than just one family pony, which is why Heart of Tucson exists and God love them, they seem to be doing the best they can. We just need hundreds or thousands more organizations like them, and with budgets stretched to the max, it just isn't possible.

02 Jan 2011 11:30 PM
scpalohorselvr

I will be sending my donation today for DynaKing.  Thanks to Hearts for all that they're doing for him and their other horses.  Possibilities for this horse are endless and for those that don't think so, there's an article in this months AQHA America's Horse magazine that features a horse named Kings Lacey Jane that suffered a life threatening injury with a foal by her side.  Her owners went the extra mile and now she has a prosthetic leg.  This horse was not just put out to pasture as an ornament, but excells in showmanship and now only has a slight limp. I also have a friend that has an Arabian mare that foundered, but was able to recover and won in the show ring after that.  All I can say as a horse owner is never give up, especially if the horse is comfortable and has the will to live.

03 Jan 2011 2:17 AM
JAJ

Agree With JAJ,

Thank you for restating the message I have been unsuccessfully trying to get across to this blog.  

HorseFirst and others who have posted in support of my message and added to it, thank you as well.  I hope you are all spared the vitriol that has been directed my way.  Maybe if those who really don't have a clue hear it enough, it will sink in.  Understanding a problem is usually the first step to solving it.  I repeat, in order to solve a problem, one needs an understanding of it and all its various nuances.

I am not a grandma killer, nor do I have any ego involved in Dyna King's fate.  I am merely raising questions that should be asked, asked of this rescue and all rescues.

And Dona, everyone knows you save the child--everyone including the mother and grandmother you don't save.

I will add that I am sick of the ad hominem attacks that are so popular with internet bullies.  It is sad that the facts are not being discussed calmly and rationally on a blog populated by people who say they have a real interest in the unwanted horse problem.

Painting me as the devil incarnate does nothing to solve the continuing problem of unwanted horses, slaughter, abuse and negligence.

03 Jan 2011 7:55 AM
Mike Relva

AGREE WITH JAJ

Can you illustrate once when JAJ commented something positive regarding DK's recovery? Also,you were out of bounds with the comment regarding Barbaro last week as if I would want a horse to suffer if there wasn't any hope. Accept the fact many don't agree with your friend JAJ. That's life!

03 Jan 2011 10:55 AM
Mike Relva

BRANDI

I'm not commenting regarding the boat thing,but I share Dona's opinion regarding her remarks to a certain reader.

03 Jan 2011 10:59 AM
Jan

BRANDI,

Your the one that doesn't know what you're talking about! Dona is correct, the answer is the mother.

That just happens to be a classic logical test question. It is based on logic not sentiment. I believe that was the point she was making which you failed to grasp.  

03 Jan 2011 11:11 AM
Kathy

Well folks, my first thought has always been, you have to have ambassadors and rallying cries to save the world or at least attempt to save it.

Here is one from Confucius, “The more man meditates upon good thoughts, the better will be his world and the world at large.”

My question in regards to Dyna King is why does it take so long to see abuse? D.K. had to have looked pretty crummy last year. But, by the same token, if someone had found him last year, he may not have made it to Heart of Tucson. He may have had enough meat on him for him to suffer the fate of other unwanted horses fate...slaughter.

Perhaps, I did not make myself clear in a previous post. One can always be pro, on the fence or against horse slaughter, the simple truth right now is that unwanted horse recycling industry doesn't do it right. I saw it on television. You can bring a steer down with one bolt as a rule. I've read because of a horse's long neck, it may take multiples bolts and there is no guarantee that the horse is dead when it goes down the chute. One shouldn't even discuss if horse slaughter is ethical if they don't do it right to begin with.

Positive segway....

I saw a heart warming picture yesterday of Evening Attire and Tacticianor.

http://forums.prospero.com/alexbrown/messages?msg=52991.16

Tac is the gelding on the right. He looked really bad last summer and early fall. He now has a belly. Evening Attire now has a half - brother he can hang out with forever. If you think about it, both of these horses are no longer ridden, hang out in a paddock, and appear to do nothing except if you think about it, they are the antithesis, the enbodiment of what should and should not happen to a horse.

Wouldn't Dyna King be a perfect companion horse to Perfect Drift. They are in the same age range. Heart of Tucson may want to try Perfect Drift's connections if nothing else works out. I don't know the connections, but I have a feeling, it would work out.

Remember all horses breeds have issues with abuse and the kill pen. However if you don't save the ones that are more high profile, the others are going to get missed.

03 Jan 2011 11:34 AM
Mike Relva

JAJ

You can try and spin yourself as the victim,but the fact is you say the same thing over and over! It reminds me of a Robert De Niro film where someone is complaining to De Niro's character about their situation. De Niro tells the guy,"you're in this mess,cause you're in this mess"! Just own up to the fact that your opionions have been less than sympathic toward DK. Many on this blog,including myself realize the longterm expense and time it will take in relation to DK. It's not rocket science. Many issues you raise have merit,yet you seem to think it's you and only you that has a handle on the road ahead for Dk. If that's your thought,then it's not accurate.

03 Jan 2011 1:03 PM
Voyager

I agree with Dr Drunkinbum, Dona is very smart and at times funny but she also makes some very poignant remarks. Remember, her comments are directed at some one that claims they are being very logical and we should bare that mind rather than think they are being absonant or advocating slaughter. Consequently, she poses the "Logic" question and judging by the response she got, her point is well taken. Just because it may appear to be the right answer doesn't make it right nor does it mean that's what you or I would do. In the subject of life or death, logic is not always relevant. Nor should it be.

I still believe an apology would be in order here because the subject of slaughter is totally inappropriate for a blog about Dyna King.

03 Jan 2011 1:18 PM
Brandi

Mike,

You may share Dona's opinion, but she still has no right to tell someone to shut up. Does she?

Jan,

And you don't know what your talking about either. Whats the logic in saving the mother over the child? I believe even GOD would save the child 1st.

03 Jan 2011 1:26 PM
Windy City

O my. That's really sad that some of the people can't understand simplest messages.

This forum is (and always been) about LOVE, DEVOTION, FAITH and HOPE toward horses. Having that said,Is this really hard to understand that people in here are trying to SAVE horses instead of discussing a better way's of slaughtering them? C'mon, do the math. You can't walk in to the bank with faked gun and then complain that they took you out in handcuffs. Slaughters WILL NOT resolve the problem, once you give this option (legally) to the breeders they'll go nuts and keep breeding more and more. The thing that CAN resolve the problem is closer monitoring of the breeding practices and harsher penalties for abusing/neglecting owners. Now, you are going to ask what to do with fatally injured ones? Well,"selling" them for a meat to the slaughters is the stupidest idea I have ever heard of....Why don't bury (if you have a space) or just cremate?? If you had money to buy/breed a horse then I'm pretty sure you should be able to afford give him the last favor and let him go in peace and with dignity. All in all he did served you through all his life, the best way he could.....Why not be humane to him? It's called responsibility. I understand that slaughters are the easiest option to the owner; he gets rid of the horse and still earns few cents from the meat...but that's just not ethical and morally wrong.

In the run for the money we often forget how precious and priceless is life. In this New Year I wish that everyone will step back and look at life from this perspective, let's be humans for a while. You can't gamble life. You can't save them all but why shouldn't we save the ones we can??? Money won't buy you happiness.....

03 Jan 2011 1:35 PM
Pardon me

Pardon me but I agree with all that is said here even JAJ. There are always 2 sides to every story and a different outcome for each story, so why always say someone is neg. When they are only trying to show you the other possible outcome? I am cheering for DynaKing to pull through and God Bless people who try and turn their lives around. Ok now that being said.... Greg you took over this Blog with such great passion for the Barbaro family but as time has gone on you seem to be either bogged down with other things or you have lost some interest. We all are here for news and updates of the Boys and their Mom, there has been no word of Moms pregnancy/due date, nothing about Nic or Lenny in a good long while {are they sound or have they been injured again} Inquiring minds want to know, so can we get back to what this blog is supposed to about, not a biatch feast but a place we can come and get the info we all are longing for. We are very appreciative of you and Bloodhorse for allowing this Blog to go on, I just hate to see it go to waste and maybe even cancelled in the future for being non-productive of the subject. Again Thank you all for caring and keeping the Memory of Barbaro alive, and for caring what happens to the rest of the family...including all horses

03 Jan 2011 3:02 PM
Barbara W

All I know is that most of us DO know that "fixing" the unwanted horse problem is complex. (I can't even wrap my mind around the concept of an umwanted horse!) Just because solutions are complex does not let us off the hook to try to save as many as we CAN! If we turn aside, then we are part of the problem.

03 Jan 2011 4:06 PM
Agree with JAJ

Mike Relva -

This is what I said regarding Barbaro: "According to Mike Relva's logic, because the horse at KHP lived 10 years with laminitis, Barbaro should have lived with it too." and it doesn't mean what you took to to mean (of course, invoking the name of the Great Barbaro stokes emotions and irrationality here anyway). All I meant by that was that according to your logic (this other horse had laminitis and lived pain-free for 10 years, thus Dyna King has laminitis and will live pain-free for 10 years), Barbaro should also have lived pain-free. And, sadly, after several months and hundreds of thousands of dollars of trying (which I am NOT saying is wrong, but I also said somewhere that it was the JACKSONS' money and choice, just as it was YOUR money and choice to keep your cat alive), Barbaro succumbed to laminitis, which was a horrible irony, considering what he had overcome. I did not say, nor imply, that you would ever want Barbaro to live in pain. I was merely pointing out, in my own sardonic manner, that not all laminitis cases are the same, and that some horses can live a decent life (your friend at KHP), while others will suffer horrendous pain (Barbaro and maybe - but hopefully not - DK). YOU read into it what you wanted to, so it was only "out of bounds" according to you.

Now compare that to some of the comments that have been directed at JAJ and tell me again, who is out-of-bounds. Also tell me what JAJ said that was negative or implies that JAJ wants DK to die.

As for the "boat" question, if the mother is the logical answer, it's a stupid question. The children will carry on the family name, not the mother. The mother will remarry and bear someone else's children, and the family name and descendency will be lost. Rational, not emotional, answer.

03 Jan 2011 6:12 PM
PatC

This blog is about Dyna King/ Gifted and helping him and praying for his quick recovery.

JAJ - didn't you mother ever teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all?  Please take your "upbeat, joyful, positive attitude" and bless another blog.

03 Jan 2011 6:42 PM
Greg J.

Voyager,

Your comment, "...because the subject of slaughter is totally inappropriate for a blog about Dyna King."

Agreed!  If one feels like writing about slaughter, go ahead, it just won't be posted here, sorry.  

03 Jan 2011 7:46 PM
airwave53

When are we going to hear anything about LVR, Nic, Lenny or Margano?

03 Jan 2011 7:51 PM
Greg J.

Pardon me,

If you haven't noticed, this is the slow time of the year for most horses.  When there is something to write about regarding the brothers, trust me, I will write about it.  As far as La Ville Rouge and her pregnancy, I have posted when she is due and, honestly, there is nothing more to add.  As far as the sex of the foal, after La Ville Rouge lost her filly last year, I hope everyone can understand why the sex of the foal hasn't been made public.  Until it is, I will not mention the subject.  As far as questioning my passion about Barbaro's family, trust me, couldn't be farther from the truth.  

Finally, you mention about this blog being "non-productive of the subject".  Sorry, but, if writing about Dyna King, the son of Dynaformer, is "non-productive", then I wish I could always be "non-productive".  I didn't plan on writing about Dyna King/Gifted, but, after being contacted to research his past and after seeing his video, how could I not write about him? 

03 Jan 2011 8:15 PM
Mike Relva

PARDON ME

You're joking,right? What planet are you living on? Doesn't common sense warrant when Greg has an update on Barbaros' brothers he would write about it?  DK isn't non productive,he's very real. If you don't find it as such,don't read it.

03 Jan 2011 8:44 PM
Mike Relva

BRANDI

Maybe Dona has disdain as I do for people(if they can be labeled as such) that cares little for innocent animals!

03 Jan 2011 8:48 PM
PatC

Thank-you so much Greg for writing about Dyna King/Gifted. Because of you and the people at Hearts, this beautiful animal will be healed and healthy.  

This is the blog for tracking Barbaro's brothers. Suffice it to say, the boys are on winter solstice, and truth be told, Dyna King is a half brother.

Oops, did I start that debate again?

Well, better that than the dark cloud of JAJ......

03 Jan 2011 9:14 PM
Mary

PatC, Dynaformer has sired over a thousand foals.  LaVille Rouge is the dam of 6 colts.  This is why Dyna King is not considered a half brother of Barbaro.  The mare is the carrier of more genetic material that the sire.  

Greg, please give us a break, and  give us some information on Margano, Nicanor, and Lentenor.  

This debate is absolutely ridiculous.

JAJ, I just returned from vacation.  I'll email you soon.  I really need your expertise.  Thank you so much for your help.

03 Jan 2011 10:44 PM
Mike Relva

As I've stated last week here,it's not about ego,it's about helping this horse and any animal that can be helped. This has moved from healthy debating to "getting the last word". I've thrown my share of shots as well as anyone,but I'll never believe that an animal doesn't matter and can be discarded as easily as one would a piece of trash. DK is improving and those that questioned was he worth it should step up to the plate and admit ALL animals deserve the chance if possible. A reader questioned the agenda of those that's in a battle to save DK. It's absurd at best and unwarranted. FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS BLOG REGARDING DK I'M DONE DEBATING. REALLY GREAT THAT SOME DOESN"T LET KNOWLEDGE AND COMPASSION GET IN THE WAY!

03 Jan 2011 10:48 PM
Brandi

Hi Greg,

1st- I'm sorry but I don't understand what us knowing the sex of the unborn foal has to do with La Ville Rouge losing her filly last year. We could be cheering,

"yes finally a little girl" or

"yes another little boy and a chance at the Triple Crown".

2nd- Is there any chance of getting some pictures of Margano?

3rd- Is Mike Relva your assistant

commentator on this blog?

04 Jan 2011 12:03 AM
stardustyrose

yooooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooo

NO MORE bickering!!!! Here is a video I just made for practice.  Getting ready to make his 29th vid. The credits on this are fast but you all know who they are :))

www.youtube.com/watch!

♥Barbaro♥

04 Jan 2011 10:43 AM
stardustyrose

GREG `````````

You tell em :))))))) You are doing very very well.  ♥  Good to see ya and as for the Naysayers, pssssst!  Greg is wonderful and I don't want to see ANOTHER post that puts him in a negative zone!  

www.youtube.com/watch!

GOD Bles you ALL!      

04 Jan 2011 10:47 AM
stardustyrose

LAZMANNICK  and Mike Relva ~~~

Here is another vid....... :))))

www.youtube.com/watch

PLEASE everyone calm down.  I donated 29 bucks to Dyna King.  Why?  Because he is related to Barbaro.   Nuff said :)))))

♥Barbaro♥    ♥DYNAFORMER♥

04 Jan 2011 10:56 AM
Horsefirst

I had a response that was apparently lost to cyberspace or Greg's spam folder.

There should be no topic, about the brothers or not, horse related, that is banned from this blog.  Some people visiting this blog over the last year have learned a lot, including me.  EDUCATION is the most powerful tool in change, changing the way horses race, changing how racing views itself, and changing how outsiders view the industry.  

I know a bit about horses and have learned a LOT from JAJ about racing.  

I am dismayed and disheartened that an honest and tolerant discourse cannot be conducted on this blog without someone slinging personal attacks instead of answering the honest and hard questions some bring up.

IMHO, posts that tend toward personal attacks and mud slinging should not be posted here.  You see what happens when they are.

JAJ has only brought forth some difficult questions and facts. Doing so, has brought nothing but attacks and mud slinging, which include taking things JAJ posted entirely out of context and derailing the blog to insinuation and expressions that border on "the vapors" again.

JAJ hasn't stated one thing that isn't true.  No one here has answered the question of what do you do when all your money can save one horse out of 11, rather than saving 10.  That is a VERY tough question.

It's nice that the contributions to this one horse haven't taken away from the other horses at this particular rescue, but at the same time, no one has asked the question, "how many others could have been saved if the money had been applied there?"

THIS is what JAJ is trying to get you to understand.

Note that some things quieted down when some hard realities were exposed:  No, you can't always bury a horse on your property and that carcass will probably be rendered; yes, slaughter, in Europe as it was described, done with compassion and love, may be the only viable option.

Reality has a way of taking the tint out of those rose colored glasses.

Greg, post some other LEGITIMATE rescues on this site.  Maybe it could go under the "We Recommend" column.  The sad truth is, that for every legit rescue, there are those out there that are not.  I am NOT saying this particular one in Arizona is not, but that you have to be very, very careful where you send your donations.

Meanwhile, this blog, the industry, and the horses themselves would be better served if people here would discuss the problems; options- pro and con; and work toward the realization that no solution is going to be 100% palatable to everyone.

I hope that this rescue can find and experienced, philanthrophic horse person to adopt Dyna King and take on the expenses of this horse.  That would serve the other animals at the rescue and potential rescues far more.  For that matter, perhaps one of the bloggers here could step up and offer to cover ALL the expenses in rehabilitating this horse.  That way, other monies could be spent on more horses in need. Then, let everyone know just what it takes monetarily to do this.

There are constant stories of horses being taken from owners not caring for them, of horses dumped in someone's pasture overnight, and of people who do manage to save one or two.  There are people who visit the auctions all the time, knowing that they have to pick the horses they can rehab and go on to sell, so that they might save a few others.  That means that a horse like Dyna King would have been passed over.  Would you call these people heartless and soulless? Those are the kinds of tough decisions most on this board will never face.  

When you expand your horizons and at least visit a few more forums and blogs that are more generally horse related, and not just based on one person or horse, you will find a few realities that just make you cry- you cannot save them all.

Every time I see another stallion retired to the breeding shed, and how many was it this year?- I cringe.  Because some of them probably don't belong there.  It's time to stop over breeding in every breed, not just Thoroughbreds.  It's time to geld more stallions.  It's time to get real about breeding that mare just because you have a mare.

Finally, is it really better to let an animal starve and suffer until it dies, vs. HUMANE slaughter?  And the harder question, if slaughter is a viable option, how do you keep people from breeding horses knowing they can always opt out that way?  

I'd like to know.  My last horse was heading to that end if it couldn't be sold, simply because the owner wanted another horse instead.  And therein lies a huge problem.  How can people call themselves horse people when at any whim, they will discard an animal?  I'd like to see that mindset barred from any kind of animal ownership.  Now, that is not really the way it is in all cases today, because of the economics and good intentioned people who can't even feed their families.  But that type exists, too.

Insinuation, mud slinging, taking things out of context, will not do anything to help solve the larger problem.  Everyone cares about the animals.  But at what point, and this is looking at it in a way that has been avoided by many here, do you discard 10 to save one?

04 Jan 2011 12:18 PM
CLee

Greg, Thank you again for the Christmas time Story of Dyna King. I check on him everyday. AND I am so grateful your comments are in BOLD because I can race through others' comments and easily find new information about this poor boy. Then, if I want to address your comments I can. Again, thank you for a story where good people are helping a poor creature that was let down by those who should have known better. Another modern-day "Black Beauty" saga. Again thank you for the story.

04 Jan 2011 12:26 PM
Horsefirst

Read the other items on this website.  Here's a new and good one:

 cs.bloodhorse.com/.../sound-advice-by-dr-christine-orman.aspx

FYI, "Pasture Ornament" is a horse term for an animal who is pasture sound only.  It can never be ridden.  Up from that, would be light trail riding.  Neither of those categories make a horse suitable to a potential buyer if that person really wants to do something with horses.  And a lot of TB's, although fine with experienced people, are not what I'd call a first horse for first horse people- even if they are only a pasture ornament.

It costs just as much to care for a pasture ornament as it does a horse you use.  For people that just need a companion animal, that works and if often what happens.  But you can't find a home like that for all of them.

I have no problem injecting a joint if medically necessary.  I do have a problem if it's done to prolong a career that should have been halted when the trouble started.

04 Jan 2011 12:37 PM
Horsefirst

For education as to just how serious an infection can be to the bones in the foot and because there is a good diagram of the foot with this article.  I hope this boy recovers:

www.racingpost.com/.../top

04 Jan 2011 12:54 PM
Cal Gal

FYI, to everyone.  

JAJ is a lady and not a "him"....for what it's worth.

04 Jan 2011 2:40 PM
Jan

Oh, come on people. The answer is: You save the mother because she is the only one you cannot replace. You can remarry, you can have more children but you only have one mother. That answer is to a college course exam question in "the Principles of Logic" and if you answer differently, you would be incorrect. Any other answer is based on sentiment, period. Think about it, this is LOGIC and Dona seemed to be saying that the question of life and death of unwanted horses cannot be based solely on logic as some were advocating.

The subject of triage was raised and I'm surprised that no one questioned that analogy. I believe it was presented as such:  

quote "Rescue is always a trade off. When you save one, you cannot save another. I always hope that rescue will look for the greater good and save the most.

In war, the casualties are triaged - some who can be saved die so that more can be saved. It's a trade off". closed quote

Well, that's not exactly accurate. In triage, you assess the injuries by a very strict set of standards based on the nature  

and severity of the injury. For instance, a sucking chest wound(a gun shot wound and you will bleed to death), a compound fracture(broken leg and the skin is broken), which injury should be addressed first? The compound fracture. Why? Because all things being equal, it takes a few minutes for you to bleed to death, in a compound fracture, the bone is exposed to bacteria and germs. If not addressed quickly, complications from the fracture may be life threatening, no matter what. So the few minutes are used in the best manner possible. It's not a case of some will die so that more can be saved. The whole process is based on the order of treatment needed, as efficiently as possible, for the benefit of all.

04 Jan 2011 4:56 PM
IVY77

Greg J:

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your work on behalf of Dyna-King.  This story was and continues to be the best Christmas present of the season.

04 Jan 2011 5:35 PM
Mike Relva

BRANDI

I like to call it free speech,kinda like what you enjoy.

04 Jan 2011 7:02 PM
Voyager

HORSEFIRST,

Perhaps the lack of response to JAJ's question says more about the nature of the question. Personally, I think it defies common sense.

FYI, there is an exscindere clause in the Leave a Comment section. It clearly states the author of the blog reserves the right to edit or omit any comment.

Whether they do or don't, Greg and bloodhorse staff are within their right to omit any entry they deem fit.

04 Jan 2011 8:38 PM
Kathy

en.wikipedia.org/.../Triage

Three key points in triage:

Those who are likely to live, regardless of what care they receive;

Those who are likely to die, regardless of what care they receive;

Those for whom immediate care might make a positive difference in outcome.

I guarantee you that if you happen to go to the emergency room in the middle of the night with a leg that needs to be sutured, that involves a vein instead of an artery, you will wait behind three heart attacks, two people with pneumonia and someone with a gallbladder attack that requires surgery. That is what is called triage. I've had my leg sutured up in the middle of the night and let me tell you, hearing another ambulance is not what someone wants to hear when you in a triage situation and you've been in an emergency room for 4 hours.

Hypothetically speaking, if Dyna King, in human form, and me with a banged up knee were in the same triage situation, the medical personal would take care of Dyna King first because they as medical personnel would realize that with some expert medical care, Dyna King the human would recover. It would be long and drawn out, but he would recover. I would have to wait, but that would be okay. Dyna King would of course fall in to the bullet category...

Those for whom immediate care might make a positive difference in outcome.

If any of you ever watched that television show back in the 70's, the name eludes me at the moment, you know the one set in Korea, back in the 50's involving that mobile army surgical hospital, where they were always doing that triage thing. You always had the ones that needed sutures only where BJ or Hawkeye said, "he can wait." And you always had that one case where someone had a chest wound that if,

Those for whom immediate care might make a positive difference in outcome

were taken in first.

The analogy of a compound fracture in a horse doesn't work because the horse is practically always euthanized where the bone pierces the skin because the medicos can't control the infection issues. I was under the impression that Barbaro went to New Bolton Center despite the gravity of his issues because his skin remained intact.  

One can spin the data around, but the facts are that Dyna King is alive and in far better shape than he was a few weeks ago which means to me anyway that he does indeed fall into the category of…

Those for whom immediate care might make a positive difference in outcome.

04 Jan 2011 9:45 PM
JAJ

Just to clarify my use of the word triage in relation to horse rescue.

In war, particularly early wars, triage didn't mean that the most seriously wounded received the first care.  It often meant that those very seriously wounded soldiers received NO care other than pain relief because the medics used their scarce resources (themselves) to save the most.  They made hard choices.

04 Jan 2011 10:09 PM
Lou in TX

Greg..to change the subject...I read on ABR that Nicanor is nominated to race this Sunday the 9th. Could you check this out and report back to us. Thanks.

04 Jan 2011 11:10 PM
Greg J.

Lou in Tx.,

Hello, and Happy New Year!

Yes, Nicanor was nominated in the 54th running of The Fort Lauderdale Stakes (Grade III) this Sunday at Gulfstream Park, but, with no published works since his third place finish in the Three Coins Up Stakes at Aqueduct on November 26, it is very unlikely he will go.  The race would have been very tough had he gone, with the likes of Bim Bam and Battle of Hasting's leading the field.  Patience...

04 Jan 2011 11:38 PM
Lou in TX

Greg...Happy New year to you. Thanks for clearing that up. I saw it was a pretty tough field and the fact that he hasn't worked in a good while, was not sure that was going to take place.  I wasn't expecting our boys to race any time soon, I just saw that and wondered if I missed something. I'm thrilled that Dyna King/Gifted is doing so well and has such very caring people taking care of him. We all wish him well. And I did donate to his cause. Just doing something for some unfortunate animal or person really makes you feel good. I try to help when I can.

Happy New Year to all...

05 Jan 2011 12:13 AM
Lou in TX

Stardustyrose...I love your video's of Barbaro!!! Can't wait to see what you come up with for the 29th. Tears still roll just watching him. There will never be another Barbaro!!! He'll always live on in our hearts. Thanks again!

05 Jan 2011 12:31 AM
Btandi

As I am still learning about horse racing. Why would a trainer nominate a horse to a race, if the horse had no public workouts and the trainer wasn't planing to run thr horse? Wouldn't he be taking up a space for another trainer to enter his horse? Does anybody know?

05 Jan 2011 1:38 AM
Jan

Kathy,

I was not referring to a horse in the triage example, I was commenting on JAJ's statement "IN WAR, THE CASUALTIES ARE TRIAGED-SOME WHO CAN BE SAVED DIE SO THAT MORE CAN BE SAVED. IT'S A TRADE OFF".

Please indicate where the word "horse" is used.

My comment was, this wasn't exactly correct. Actually, I was being kind. It's ludicrous.

 Triage was instituted on the battlefield to sort injuries based on a degree of urgency, strickly to determine an order of treatment. That process of medical assessment is now the universal standard.  It was simply a way to determine who should go first, based on injury type and severity, ensuring medical personnel and supplies would be used in a more practical and effecient manner.    

The contamination factor of a compound fracture in a horse is the same for a human, it is one of the most agregious of injuries.

05 Jan 2011 4:05 AM
Horsefirst

Voyager,

I am aware that things can be deleted or not posted on this blog.

Most blog rules would negate personal attacks.

Rather than having an intelligent, helpful discourse on a very hard subject, this blog has descended into name calling, mud slinging, insinuation, and taking remarks out of context.  Hardly an adult way to deal with a tough issue.

All of the derailments aside, the question remains- save one horse or ten?  If you'll note, there has been no response to that one, either.

People just meander back to bickering and belittlement.

There is a huge issue here and most on this blog are dodging it.  

05 Jan 2011 8:06 AM
Barbara W

Is this the forum for updates on Dyna King/Gifted? Is there another plce to check? I've gone to Heart's website but didn't find anything the last time I looked.I would love to see the postings here confined to the original topic and save the "complex horse issues" for another blog. That way, those of us who don't want to particiapte in the argument could skip that one.It's a problem that needs answers, but it's beyond the scope of this forum.

05 Jan 2011 10:18 AM
Dona

Greg,

Came come and saw an email on 1/4/11 from Heart that I would like to share. It goes like this:

He is doing so much better. We had his teeth done today, and also opened up another abcess on his feet and let it drain today. He should be walking so much better on that one tomorrow. That poor guy had more abcess in his feet than I have ever seen. They will heal and he will be back to health in time.

We are just so happy that he has people that care about him, we get so many that have no one, so for us to see one come in that has love from others means a lot to us. He has learned the daily routine here already and is at his gate when the carrots make the rounds, he really is a special horse.

Sincerely,

Judy Glore

President of Heart of Tucson

05 Jan 2011 2:52 PM
sandieh

Greg,there is nothing to be sorry about after writing such a wonderful story about Dyna King. This story reminded all of us about horse abuse and how much these precious animals still suffer. Through stories just like yours we are able to continue our awareness that there is still a lot of ugliness and hurt out there. Thank heaven for places like Heart of Tucson willing to help unwanted and abused horses back to health.

Thank you again Greg, for this most heartbreaking but yet heartwarming story at Christmas time!

05 Jan 2011 6:08 PM
sandieh

StarDustyRose, did you slip in a picture of Gifted in the video? How fitting with the words of our "heart will go on". This brought tears of love for our boys, thank you!

05 Jan 2011 6:48 PM
Greg J.

Dona,

Thank You for posting Judy's update on Dyna King/Gifted!  

Barbara,

Yes, and I agree 100 percent!

Sandieh,

Thanks :)

05 Jan 2011 7:54 PM
Greg J.

Update from Judy Glore, President of HEART of Tucson:

"Good morning everyone. I wanted to let everyone know that Gifted, and Sean are doing great. thank you so much for the prayers for my son. He started talking, and got to actually go for his first walk 2 days ago. Gifted also had his teeth done yesterday, and we drained another abcess from his front foot. He is walking better and better each passing day. His weight is starting to come back on and he is really a happy camper here now. All of the volunteers are in love with this big boy. Even his voice is getting better.when he knickers. It is always sad to see them when they come in so malnurished because they loose their voice as well and it's more of a whisper that they do. Now he is sounding like a Harley motor cycle when he gets to knickering when he sees that bucket coming, lol. He is a very grateful horse to everyone. Thank you so much again for your donations, and prayers. We will keep you all up to speed on his progress, and his story. This is one lucky guy that will never get lost in the system again thanks to you all. Big hugs to you all for helping him."

05 Jan 2011 8:03 PM
JAJ

Btandi,

Some trainers nominate to all stakes races their horses are eligible at many tracks.  Some owners might want their horses nominated to everything.  Some trainers use a computer program that does it automatically, I think.

I would be really ticked with my trainer if she nominated to races my horses didn't have a hope of being ready for.  It costs the owner money to nominate.  If a horse isn't going to be ready or competitive, why nominate?  Nominations are usually made just a couple of weeks out of the race, so you have a pretty good idea if you are going to be ready or not.

On entry day, usually about 3 days out from the race, the horse is entered and the entry fee is paid.  Nominating doesn't affect the number of horses that enter the race--there could be dozens of nominations, but only a few entries.  The Kentucky Derby will have thousands of nominations.

Nominating also doesn't guarantee your horse gets in the race.  Each stakes race will have different criteria for which horses have preference to get into the race.  Paying an entry fee doesn't guarantee your horse gets in either.

05 Jan 2011 8:38 PM
JAJ

From Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness an article entitled, A Brief History of Triage, written by

Glenn W. Mitchell, MD, MPH, FACEP, had this to say about triage in early wars:

"Earlier military triage placed the most value on soldiers who could be returned quickly to the line of engagement, so the highest priority wounded were those who could be patched up and returned to duty. At the time, warfare depended upon large numbers of troops lined up opposite one another, and the larger force was most often victorious. Those wounded soldiers who were expected to recover were next to be treated and those who were probably doomed were often left on the field with their already dead comrades."

05 Jan 2011 8:49 PM
Greg J.

JAJ,

Thanks for answering Brandi regarding the nominations.  Just an FYI, there were 40 nominations for this race, with the field limited to 14.  The nominations were free if submitted by December 29, which Nicanor's was.

05 Jan 2011 9:00 PM
Mike Relva

BARBARA W

Got an email tonite from Judy stating the same that's updated for today. He's on the right track.

05 Jan 2011 9:07 PM
JAJ

More on nominations:

The bigger stakes races will always have a nomination fee.

The smaller stakes races might have no nomination fee, no entry fee and just a fee to start paid on the day of the race.

There are all kinds of permutations of nomination fees, entry fees and starter fees for small stakes races.

05 Jan 2011 9:17 PM
JAJ

From, A Brief History of Triage, written by Glenn W. Mitchell, MD, MPH, FACEP:

"Earlier military triage placed the most value on soldiers who could be returned quickly to the line of engagement, so the highest priority wounded were those who could be patched up and returned to duty."

The article further states that the same mentality was used to triage in 9/11 where priority was given to the less severely wounded police and firefighters because they needed to be returned to duty.

05 Jan 2011 9:25 PM
Brandi

JAJ & Greg,

Thank you for the nomination info.

I'm looking forward to some good results from the brothers. Maybe they are a little bigger, stronger, and well rested.

Good to hear that Gifted is doing so well.

05 Jan 2011 10:48 PM
Lou in TX

So glad our boy Dyna King/Gifted is doing so well. I think all our prayers and well wishes, plus our donations have helped make this happen.  Also his determination to live is straight from Barbaro. Maybe he was whispering in his ear not to give up the fight. God Bless you Dyna King/Gifted! And a special thanks to all of you who have donated to help this beautiful creature of God.

Judy, I'm so happy that your son is doing well. We have all been praying for his speedy recovery. God bless you for helping save the beautiful horse Dyna King/Gifted. We wish them both a complete recovery.

05 Jan 2011 10:51 PM
airwave53

So glad to see that DK/Gifted is doing better.  Hope all continues to go well for him. My heart aches for all animals large and small that do not have loving and responsible owners to care for them once their usefullness is ended.

Thank you so much Greg for the updates that you give us. Proud owner of a special needs pet.

05 Jan 2011 10:57 PM
Dona

LOU IN TX,

Just wanted to thank you for being such a upbeat person and I know Heart is grateful for your well wishes. Keep the faith!

05 Jan 2011 11:10 PM
Kathy

I wasn't pointing any fingers in reference to the triage comments...just my take on triage and what I read rightly or wrongly into the discussion.

Dona,

I second what you say about Lou in TX. I know I could learn by Lou in TX's example, if I just worked on it a bit.

06 Jan 2011 3:32 AM
PatC

Greg, did you see that "Let's Talk Horse Racing" has picked up this story,  And THEY called Dyna King "Babero's brother". Yes! I've been vindicated.

Fantastic news on Dyna King's recovery - keep fighting Big Boy!

06 Jan 2011 7:55 AM
Mike Relva

GREG

Wanted to say thanks for your work regarding this story,many wouldn't have heard about DK,including myself.

06 Jan 2011 10:26 AM
Marigold

I am head over heels in love with Gifted/DynaKing.  Thanks for the updates.  

06 Jan 2011 2:16 PM
sandieh

Marigold, I am to. What an inspiration to pick yourself up and go on when you could be feeling "dumpy" !

PatC, that's great! I to, think of Gifted as Barbaro's brother.

Lou in Tx, Our Angel must have whispered into his ear...what a sweet thought!

Judy, those that help others are blessed in many ways, may God bless you and your son as he recovers.

Are Nicky and Lennie together in Florida? And how's Margano? Lots of love to the Brothers!

06 Jan 2011 4:46 PM
Barbara W

What wonderful news about DK. We have just come from a funeral, and it's DEFINITELY the best news I've had today. Thanks so much for keeping up the story. I'll keep checking.

I wish a major news network could pick up on this story when he's in the "after" stage.

Yes, that was DK in the Barbaro video--a most fitting insertion.

Judy-- we're all thrilled that Sean is improving too. Wonderful news on both fronts.

06 Jan 2011 5:08 PM
Yes It's True Sherry

I know of someone that taught a College Night Course on Business Programming. That indivudal had no background or expertise on the subject and would tell the students that all questions would be written down at the end of the class, subsequently to be answered at the beginning of the next secession. Problem was, the teacher would go to the office next day and question the business staff, obtaining their working experience and knowledge on the subject. Now some may say the teacher was a go-getter, industerious and doing anything to get ahead. Others might feel he was taking a job from someone that possed the knowledge and skill required for the subject. Some may simply feel he was an --- and was cheating. What about the students? Who knows if the answers were appropriate or as required?  The Teacher really did posses a Degree in Civil Engineering. Makes you wonder how he got that honor and having a paper to prove his qualifications doesn't mean he knew that particular field either.  Maybe he got his initial credentials the same way. Kinda makes you question everything about him and rightly so.

Open Minded, yet skeptial are admirable traits for all knowledge and truth seekers.

Just saying.  

06 Jan 2011 5:15 PM
Ragsy

Lou,

Yes, you are an inspiration to all, your Number 1 to me.  I have been so busy that I forgot to send a donation to Dyna King but I will take care of that asap.

What a wonderful story,

"A Christmas Story."

06 Jan 2011 5:16 PM
Dona

Hotstufandthensome,

bloodhorse has an artcle about him that just appeared in the last few hours. Here's a 9 yr old gelding that won $750,000 in his lifetime and now he's in dire straights. Crippled through the claiming ranks, his future is questionable. Who will speak for this horse? Somebody has got to tackle the source of the problem. Otherwise it will never cease. Using animals to make money and then discarding them is limitless now. Just a small percentage of his earnings set aside would have made all the difference in the world for him. Mandating soundness at the track before entering the gate, mandating soundness at the time of claiming, anything will help. This is a horrible dilemma and is getting worse by the minute. When is the Industry going to step up and say yes, the horse deserves a percentage of his winnings. Shame on them.      

06 Jan 2011 6:09 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

Here is the story Dona was talking about, if everyone could take a few minutes to read this story, I thank you.

"Hotstufanthensome" story on Esther Marr's blog, Beyond the Blinkers:

cs.bloodhorse.com/.../graded-stakes-winner-needs-a-home.aspx

06 Jan 2011 8:30 PM
Mike Relva

DONA

I also read the story, hope he can go to Old Friends.

06 Jan 2011 8:48 PM
Jan

If anyone needs heart and soul R&R, go to Zenyatta.com, it's a haven for the weary. Upbeat, funny, you'll learn a lot and also experience what life should be for those gallant heros and heroines that put their life on the line every time they raced.

Every story I read about an unwanted or crippled horse, I thank the luck stars for people like the Mosses and the Jacksons. What a better world it would be if more could be like them.  

06 Jan 2011 9:16 PM
Ragsy

Hotstufanthensome

is beautiful, guess thats one way to get rid of a horse the owner and trainer need jail time and heavy fines for dumping this georgous horse and ruining his life and to think it was a preventable inury.  I just hope with time he will recover so he can be a trail horse.  

06 Jan 2011 9:41 PM
Dona

Mike Relva,

I second that hope!

When I read that Royal Navy was put down, I found my self wondering who would be lucky enough to take his space. I imagine Old Friends has a long waiting list of needy canidates. I sure hope some one steps forward for Hotstufanthensome.

Jan,

You said it! The Mosses and the Jacksons are so worthy of our gratitude and praise. What wonderful role models they are, proving you can enjoy and reap the rewards but also stand up to the responsibilities that ensue.  I know there are many like them but at the moment, the plight of the unwanted and discarded is just over whelming.  

06 Jan 2011 9:50 PM
K-Piece

Whoever posted the picture of Evening Attire...Thank you!!!  What an awesome horse, and I was so happy to see him.  I was at the Greenwood Cup in Philadelphia in 2008 when he won his last race.  It was amazing-from the post parade and seeing him next to the youngsters...to falling back...to winning the race by half a football field....awesome.  Talk about not giving up on a horse...he used to literally walk out of the gate.   Here is the video of his last win at 10 years old...one of my favorites.  Thanks again.

www.youtube.com/watch

06 Jan 2011 10:25 PM
Lou in TX

Thanks Greg for finding that article. I also have emailed Anna as to where to send a donation for him. If you know an email address to do so would you please share it with us. Thanks.

06 Jan 2011 10:37 PM
Ragsy

Esther Marr called Anna @New Vocations stating 40 emails requesting place to donate, and 3-4 adoption requests for the big fella.  Good news does happen.

07 Jan 2011 1:57 PM
Lou in TX

To All..

Here is the email address for any donations you might like to make for Hotstuff. Anna said I could post it here.

www.horseadoption.com

Made a donation today. Hopefully we can make a differnece in the horses life as well.

07 Jan 2011 2:58 PM
Ragsy

GregJ and Lou

Mail in donations for Hotstufanthensome

make sure you put Hotstuff in the memo section.

New Vocations

3293 Wright Rd

Laura, Oh 45337

07 Jan 2011 3:15 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

I was just informed that Mr. Blowen and Old Friends have agreed to take Hotstufanthensome, if New Vocations can hold him until March.  Bless everyone that helped and, of course, New Vocations Racehorse Adoption Program and Old Friends!

UPDATE:

Regarding Hotstuff, I might have jumped the gun a little, but, where Hotstuff is going, like New Vocatios said, is a  "perfect permanent home for him" and "there is going to be a very happy ending to this story."  Thanks, and one of my favorite songs is "New York, New York"  ;)

07 Jan 2011 7:23 PM
Lou in TX

OooooooH what wonderful news!!! Thank you Old Friends!!!! See we FOB's can do anything we put our minds to!!  I know we didn't do anything in person but surely all of us sending out the message did help this guy. And I'm sure the  donations will help Heart keep him until March. I'm so grateful to any and everyone who donated to this cause. ONE HORSE AT A TIME!

Thanks Greg for letting us know the good news.

Thanks Ragsy for the reminder to put Hotstuff in the donation. I forgot. My bad.

07 Jan 2011 7:38 PM
Ragsy

On Lisa's( New Vocations)  facebook page she stated, there has been a massive wave of support for Hotstufanthensome after the article went online.  He is no longer forgotten but is a celebrity once again.

Lisa stated, he did not seem to mind one way or another...great news...  

07 Jan 2011 7:58 PM
Ragsy

Hey Lou

Driving to town today I saw traffic signs and guess what?    I stopped by a patrol office and got a drivers booklet. Kinda scary.  

07 Jan 2011 8:34 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

That's great news,I contacted Old Friends this afternoon to inquire if they had heard about Hotstufandthensome. Thanks for your update. Question? Do you think with the injuries,he will be ok?

07 Jan 2011 9:31 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

The local Tucson television station, KOLD NEWS 13, did a story on Dyna King/Gifted that aired yesterday.  Here is the link, and, click under "video gallery" to see the video(it shows up in the top right margin, best to watch it in full screen).  

Dyna King/Gifted still has a long way to go, but, praying he keeps improving and fighting everyday.  Also, I cannot say this enough, thanks to Judy, HEART of Tucson, and everybody that has helped with with their well wishes, prayers, and donations!

Link:

www.kold.com/.../story.asp

07 Jan 2011 10:44 PM
Voyager

Thanks Greg for the news flash about Hotstufanthensome. That's the best news possible.  

07 Jan 2011 10:58 PM
Lou in TX

Thanks Greg for giving us the link for the video. He is such a lucky horse to have such caring people caring for him. Hopefully he will recover so he can go to a loving home. And our boy Barbaro was very special in this story to.  Now that some more of the public knows who he's kin to maybe they'll donate and help Heart out with the expenses. I don't care what the horse world thinks, he's still kin to Barbaro in my book. Thanks again for bringing this to the attention of us FOB's. Hopefully he'll have a happy ending like Hotstuff.

08 Jan 2011 1:14 AM
rams2050

What I can't figure out is why anyone would be against a group like this -- the Friends of Barbaro -- actually DOING something for this horse who was sired by the sire of Barbaro, Nicanor and Lentenor.

We must all love horses because we put in time at this site, right?

And we KNOW there is a tremendous amount of injustice that occurs to many of those poor creatures who have broken down, can no longer race or have been abandoned.

So, why not DO something, anything, which is what Greg has done here.  HE HAS BROUGHT THE CASE OF DYNA KING/GIFTED to the attention of a group of horse lovers who can actually help out, albeit only by donations.

Yes, there are probably plenty of horses with better prospects of recovery we COULD help but the fact is WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEM.

It is the connection to Dynaformer -- and thus to the Brothers of Barbaro -- that has brought Dyna King/Gifted to our attention.

Isn't THAT in itself something of a Christmas miracle?

As one who loves horses I think it is.

I have donated and I will continue to donate.  I cannot help every off-the-track Thoroughbred who needs my help, but I darned sure can help this one and I darned sure will.

Every time I read a new report, every time I watch a new video, I can take some joy and pride in knowing that I, personally, have done something to help this one valiant horse who was forgotted by everyone until he wandered into the arms of the Heart of Tucson.

Why is this NOT a miracle, that we can all share in the joy of Gifted's recovery -- and know, each of us who has donated something -- that, yes, in some small way WE HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE!

It seems to easy to understand.

Of course, though, these are just my own thoughts.

Why should we worry about our money perhaps making MORE of a difference elsewhere when it was THIS horse that was brought to our attention??  (Yes, I have donated to hotstufandthensome, too.  I guess I am just a sap for horses who are down on their luck).

In any case, I visit this site several times a day just on the off chance that I will be able to read an update on Gifted's condition.

Thank you Greg for providing them, and thank you, Judy Glore, for doing everything that is humanly possible for Gifted.

You both, together with Gifted, ROCK!

08 Jan 2011 11:54 AM
Lou in TX

Rams2050...I second your thought!! I to have donated to Gifted and to Hotstuff.  They both deserve a chance at the good life.  God Bless you for steping up and doing what's in your heart. Wish there were more people like you in this world today. You said it just right!! Thank you.

08 Jan 2011 12:17 PM
Marigold

Gifted is a beautiful boy and I would guess there will be lots of interest in adoptions for him.  I'd adopt him if I were able!

08 Jan 2011 12:23 PM
Ragsy

Rams2050

What a beautiful statement.  Thank You

Lou

email me your address and I will send your grandaughter a copy of the photo card Zenyatta sent me.  It says in the left hand corner:

     With Love Zenyatta

and it gives one permission to use the photo as desired.  

08 Jan 2011 6:27 PM
Barbara W

God bless you, Michael Blowen and all our friends at Old Friends. we can never thank you enough! Hope you're checking this blog. If not, I'll send an e-mail.

08 Jan 2011 7:27 PM
Horsefirst

Greg,

Why don't you make up a list of horse rescue organizations, so that people can donate to more of them?  It shouldn't just be the horses that get out attention that get the donations, or just because they hit the other Barboro-centric site.  The organizations should be 501 3c's, for best chance that they are legit.  At least, donations are tax deductible but the most important part is that being a 3c makes it more likely they are legit.

08 Jan 2011 8:53 PM
NorthStar326

This article and blog was set up to get help for Dyna King and to bring awareness to many horses like him.  JAJ found the need to interject what most of us know all too well...the world is full of irresponsible, whiney horse owners and breeders who think it is okay to starve, neglect, abuse or sell a horse for slaughter.  The AAEP, with all due respect, is a self-serving group with a PRO-SLAUGHTER agenda. For any PROFESSIONAL group to give one second to making excuses for people, from the breeders, to the owners, to the animal protection agencies, to most certainly the Vets...who are always there to collect their overblown bills, but RARELY there to help a horse, whose owner who can no longer afford to humanely care for him.  Let me be clear:  I have no problem euthanizing a horse or any animal, if done with humanity and dignity and all other humane options are unavailable for the particular horse or animal.  I also absolutely believe if a breeder brings an animal into being, damn straight they should be prepared to help that animal when it finds itself in dire straights.  Enough with the excuses from the industry, the breeders, owners and most definitely the Vets.  There are NO excuses for animals deliberately bred into being for a profit-making purpose (not for food)to end up the way so many of these magnificent creatures do.  The really sickening part is that the mega-rich, with stallions and mares galore, who put hundreds of foals on the ground are RARELY there to step up for those foals when they fail to perform!  I know of several of those people personally and have even paid out of my own pocket to save and sponsor these individual's responsibilities.  Some are even Eclipse Award (or other type of accolade) winners.  So please SPARE US your pearls of wisdom JAJ.  They are worthless grains of sand in search of an oyster.

WINDY CITY...thanks for posting that Christmas Story.  It is one of my favorites and I often include it in Christmas cards.  This country needs to get back to doing MORE THINGS...for the love (and honor) of it!

09 Jan 2011 12:03 AM
Ragsy

Bless your heart NorthStar326 truth is sometimes harder to understand than falsehoods.  

And bless your heart Horsefirst! Your way off base.   GregJ has no need of a horse rescue list, he knows them by heart, as well as most all on this site.  Perhaps, you should visit AlexBrownRacing.com and see what you can do to help.  Its all about horse rescues in America, saving horses and donating to assist these magnificient animals. I have been there, done that and work off site for the horses today.   It becomes heartbreaking and its never ending,its past time for changes. And Horsefirst please do not attempt to throw stones at GregJ..

Thank You Barbaro

for bringing the understanding of horses troubles to light for many of us..

09 Jan 2011 10:40 AM
Mike Relva

BARBARA W

I spoke to Judy yesterday and I'm contacting Old Friends in regards to DK.

09 Jan 2011 11:45 AM
Lou in TX

NorthStar326...Thanks for speaking what a lot of us already feel but just fail to put it into words like you did.

I like Horsefirst's suggestion about a list of rescue organizations. I only know of a few that have been mentioned here on this site. It would be nice to be able to donate to others who need our help as well.

09 Jan 2011 12:56 PM
Lou in TX

Hey All...a little off subject but it'a snowining here in Texas!! It's only 37 degrees but the snow is sticking to everything. So glad I don't have to get out today.

Hope evetyone has a wonderful Sunday and the rest of the week.

09 Jan 2011 1:22 PM
Pokey

Ragsy, how is Horsefirst throwing stones at Greg? Horsefirst just made a suggestion that you are reading an awful lot into. Many people on this forum don't know about, or don't regularly check, AlexBrownRacing.com, and it would be helpful to have a list as a link here. I don't see how you can take that as throwing stones. You said, "GregJ has no need of a horse rescue list, he knows them by heart, as well as most all on this site." I doubt this is true, and having links to those rescues (a) would not hurt anything and (b) may just help these rescues A WHOLE LOT.

Maybe you need to take a step back and look at the larger picture here. I don't think there is a person here who has commented, who doesn't have DynaKing/Gifted's best interests at heart. I'm a little disappointed in this group right now for jumping on people and hurling around accusations and insinuations. I may not post a lot but I have been reading this blog for a very long time, and it's the same thing, different post - if someone says what is interpreted as criticism against Nic or Len, they are immediately ganged up on as "naysayers" and villains, and told to leave.

This blog was not started as a shrine to Barbaro, it was started as a site for information about Barbaro's brothers as they moved through their racing careers. As you can see from many other blogs on Bloodhorse, there is active, lively debate about many horses and races (Rachel/Zenyatta last year, Zenyatta/Blame this year, all the TC races, the Breeders cup, who's better than who, who fell on their face, etc.). It should be the same here. Nicanor and Lentenor are not saints or angels, aren't particularly great runners (maybe a little better than average), and are (GASP!!) fallible. I am here because like you all, I love them, good or bad, right or wrong, winning or losing, just as I love Smarty Jones' progeny (and all horses, AAMOF). Some people, like JAJ for one, can take a step back and be critical of Nicanor and Lentenor, can see them with a different eye than some of you, and can see where they may have gone wrong in a race that they lost, or even a race that they won. This is not badmouthing or "naysaying." This is constructive criticism, but you all take ANY criticism as badmouthing. If someone gives their opinion that Nicanor will never be stakes-grade, that opinion is as valid as the opinion that Nicanor ranks with Secretariat, or should have started in the Kentucky Derby or Breeders Cup. Those who criticize the jockeys for giving the brothers a bad ride are just as valid as those who criticize the same jockeys for using the whip too much. Everyone's opinion should be welcome here. It's an open forum, albeit subject to the moderation of the blog author - however, I think that the moderation should be for flaming, name-calling, profanity, etc., and not for expressing an opinion contrary to the blog author's. If we can't disagree, then it's not discourse - it's a mutual admiration society.

P.S. In the spirit of openness, I must disclose that I was posting as "Agree with JAJ" (because I did/do) but prefer to post as my regular nickname. I've used a few, but this is the name I'm recognized by in many circles.

10 Jan 2011 12:51 AM
Mike Relva

POKEY

I think you have difficulty that not everyone agrees with JAJ. If you agree w/ JAJ fine,but respect not everyone,including myself shares her viewpoints!

10 Jan 2011 10:26 AM
Pokey

Mike Relva,

I only wanted full disclosure, I'm not trying to hide my identity or post under another name without letting you know who I am.

I definitely gather that you do not agree with JAJ, and I don't have any difficulty with that at all. It is you who has difficulty acknowledging and respecting that there are things that JAJ has said that I find agreeable.

We can all have disagreements, but for heaven's sake, keep it civil. Some people here are looking for things to be insulted/offended by, and it happens in the comments to every blog post, no matter what it's about. If you don't think that Nicanor and Lentenor are completely perfect in every way, you are going to get jumped on and called a "naysayer" and oftentimes asked to leave the blog. In the case of this blog entry, if you point out that Dyna King's prognosis may not be all sunshine and lollipops, you are going to vehemently shouted down. It's okay to be hopeful and realistic at the same time. You, personally, may understand this without the need for it to be spoken, but some of the regulars here may not grasp the concept. To not speak of the less desirable outcome for DK would be like the vet telling you that your cancer-stricken dog will live another five years, but not telling you that those years will involve horrendous pain, organ failure, and eventually death. Not having those facts will impair your ability to make an informed, responsible decision. Many of the folks here would rather trot along with their blinkers on, and not be informed of the possible horribleness of Dyna King's condition. So far, the updates have been encouraging, and that's a good thing. I pray for continued improvement and for someone to step up and offer Dyna King a forever home. For this, I commend you, Mike Relva, for taking the lead and being proactive on DK's behalf and working to keep us updated and to find him a worthy home.

10 Jan 2011 11:08 AM
Barbara W

Thanks to Greg and Mike Relva and all who contributed to the wonderful story. if we move the updates to another blog, please let us know.

10 Jan 2011 5:26 PM
Lou in TX

I think enough has been said about what JAJ says or believes. Can we please move on and try to be concerned about Dyan King/Gifted in our own way. I'm sure I can speak for all of us who hopes he can make a good recovery and choose to believe the reports we get from Tuscon.  After all, they are caring for him and know first hand how he is recoverying or not.

Pokey..I appreciate what you are saying but can we please let it lie!!  Enough has been said by everyone. We need to move on. I for one can agree to disagree with JAJ on some things.

Thanks for reading this blog. I'm sure you can add a lot of good information concerning other things. Please enlighten us with your knowledge on horses of your choice.  As you know, we discuss a lot of other horses besides the brothers. Like Zenyatta, who is making a great adjustment to being retired. Check out Zenyatta.com and read her daily diaries. They are very informative.

10 Jan 2011 7:34 PM
Mike Relva

BARBARA W

As always you show class,but I give Greg all the credit. I appreciate him  calling everyone's attention to this story.

10 Jan 2011 7:43 PM
sandieh

Barbara, I hope that we are allowed to keep the updates alive right here. Any news on the well being of Dyna King is certainly welcome here and by the FOB'S! I am excited to hear every day that Dyna King is improving. May he be blessed with continued healing.

Greg, thank you as always for the update on HotStuff.I hope everything works out and that he has a permanent home.

Lou in Tx, I heard that Texas as well as some parts of Florida had some snow. Last year I had 39 inches in my front yard. Our boys must be wearing their knee highs!

Nicky, Lennie, Margano, LaVille Rouge, Babynor2, lots of love and hugs!

Ragsy, hope you are feeling better now. Love to see you post! Take care!

10 Jan 2011 7:55 PM
Mike Relva

Sent an email this morn. to Old Friends.

11 Jan 2011 9:31 PM
Barbara W

Thank you, Mike Relva, for your kind words. Looking forward to seeing more updates.

11 Jan 2011 9:44 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

After spending all day digging out of this crazy blizzard we had in Connecticut(27 inches of snow at my house!), I just read two great updates on Dyna King/Gifted and  Hotstufanthensome.  What great news for both, bravo!

Update on Dyna King/Gifted from Judy Glore, HEART of Tucson:

I have wonderful news on Gifted/Dyna King. Today he went out to the arena for his walk, and to sun bath today like he does everyday. We had a leather halter with Barbaro's name plate sent to us for him so we were going to take his pictures today of him wearing his guardian angels halter on. He laid down and rolled in the soft footing, and jumped up and started bucking, and started trotting back to the barn, lol. Mia was walking back to the barn and never saw him coming, so I yelled to her move, lol. As you can imagine, we were all shocked to see the fire and energy back in that boys heart. We all started laughing because he always just takes a nap out there and slowly makes his way back when he is ready to come back in. His feet are still sore from the abcesses, and he is stiff, but holy cow this kid is coming back. His treatments are working. Thank you for the donations, it has helped us a ton to give him the care, and medical he needed so badly. Gifted thanks you all for not giving up on him. I can't wait to see what he can do in 6 months. New pictures of him will be posted this week.

Thank you again.

Here is a video that I forgot to post, Dyna King/Gifted enjoying the view on New Year's day:

www.facebook.com/.../video.php

Update on Hotstufanthensome from New Vocations:

We are happy to announce that Hotstufanthensome will be going to Akindale Thoroughbred Rescue in Pawling, New York where he will have a forever home.  We are thrilled that Akindale stepped up and offered their services to him.  In return they will send one of their adoptable horses to New Vocations, which will enter the retraining program and eventually find a new home.   This is a perfect example of two programs working together and utilizing their strengths.  Hotstuff is scheduled to be shipped next week, weather permitting.  Another positive side to this story is that Evening Attire who actually raced against Hotstuff is also a resident at Akindale.  It is great that the two will meet up once again.

Link to New Vocations Facebook page:

www.facebook.com/.../10150089126159415

A huge Thank You to ALL that have helped with Dyna King/Gifted and Hotstufanthensome!  This is a great way to end my long, exhausting day!  Big smile :)

12 Jan 2011 10:07 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

Had snow @ my house but only about 1/2 a foot. Thanks for your continued updates about these two.      

12 Jan 2011 10:44 PM
Lou in TX

Greg....thanks soo much for the update on these two horses. I am thrilled that Dyna King/Gifted is doing soo much better. Hotstuff sure looks like Barbaro in his picture. Can't wait to see Dyna King/Gifted being happy and feeling like jumping around and bucking. God has done his work with both these horses.

Sorry to hear about all the snow you are having to deal with. I only had 3 inches and it seemed like a whole lot. Get some rest and when you hear anything else keep us posted about these two. Also, if you hear anything about our brothers or their family. Littlegreateone came in third in her race today.  I guess she's counted as a 3 yr. old since it's January. I'm sure the Jackson's are willing to give her time since she's a Dynaformer filly.  We know about that don't we!! Take care.

12 Jan 2011 11:36 PM
Kathy

Thanks Greg for the update. I pity the poor people who have to shovel themselves out of deep snow. I spent over half of my life in snowy, icy, coldness. And I don't miss it one bit. I can look at the far away mountains if I want to look at snow.

FYI

Littlegreatone is actually Lael Stables bred by Bernardini out of Megahertz. Even Mommy is a multi-millionaire. Third time will be a charm for Littlegreatone on her next Maiden Special Weight.

I believe the Dynaformer filly the Jacksons bought was actually a yearling last year. I am hoping both Margano and her got to meet each other down at Ocala and are now pals.

13 Jan 2011 4:55 AM
Greg J.

Here are some new wonderful photos of Dyna King/Gifted, taken by Mia Larocque, Thank You!

Link to photos:

Wearing his new Barbaro halter:

www.flickr.com/.../set-72157625813807216

Getting his teeth done:

www.flickr.com/.../set-72157625813807216

Looking better!:

www.flickr.com/.../set-72157625813807216

Has an itch?:

www.flickr.com/.../set-72157625813807216

13 Jan 2011 7:37 AM
JAJ

Gawd, he looks rough!  What is really sad is that he looks a million times better than he did a month ago.  Poor horse.

He looks pretty good, considering everything.

13 Jan 2011 10:54 AM
Lou in TX

Kathy, thanks for the correction. I think I got them the two fillys mixed up. Glad you are on top of things.

13 Jan 2011 10:57 AM
RachelFan

anyone know when we will be getting any updates on the boys? when will Margano start training?

13 Jan 2011 12:57 PM
Kathy

You are welcoome Lou in TX.

Now if I could just figure out what the Jackson have named her their Dynaformer 2 year old. There are a couple of Dyna girl name possibilities, but of course nothing has been added to the usual places other than Bank Audit had a 2009 filly sell for 900,000.

Pretty handsome that leather Barbaro halter on Dyna King/Gifted. In the first photo, I did notice a striking resemblance to Dynaformer...you know...that droll...oh give me a break cranky look that Dynaformer occasionally poises with.

It is also good to know that D.K./Gifted is feeling good enough to play freight train with Mia.

Thanks for the photos Mia.

13 Jan 2011 2:36 PM
Penny in TX

Greg, great news about both of those horses. We had 6 inches of snow in Northeast Texas, can't imagine having 27 inches. I am so ready for the snow to leave and some warm weather to arrive. I am so glad Dyna King/Gifted is getting better, pretty special he has his guardian angel halter. For Hotstuf to have his forever home with old buddies is another blessing. 2011 is starting out pretty good so far.

13 Jan 2011 3:12 PM
rams2050

He's looking good, imho!

Look how he's able to stand on three legs to scratch with the fourth.

The hooves -- what I can see of them -- look great, too.

I am thrilled with his progress.

Keep the updates coming!!

13 Jan 2011 3:59 PM
JAJ

RachelFan,

I am sure Margano is in training.

To give you an idea of where Margano might be, my own 2-year old is a late foal (May).  She started training October 1 and was even galloping around the farm track in December.  We gave her a month off for no other reason than to just let her grow and let her body and mind settle into her new role.  I imagine she goes back into serious training next week.

All racehorses are trained as two-year olds if they are in good hands.  The only reasons I've ever seen for 2-year olds not being in training at this time of year is because the connections don't have the money or the horse is hurt/sick.  I've run into a few misguided individuals who have a belief that horses shouldn't be in training until later, but they have never been what I would consider "successful."  The only time you stop on them is for a specific reason, usually because of a growth spurt that makes them unbalanced or an injury.  Sometimes though, it is a financial decision.

I hear a lot said on the internet about how Zenyatta didn't start until late in her 3-year old year and because she wasn't trained as a baby is why she raced at 6, and maybe now ignorant trainers will finally learn and not train their babies, blah, blah, blah.

The truth is they couldn't keep Zenyatta sound enough to start before late in her 3-year old year.  John Sherriffs made that comment somewhere.  Zenyatta was in training as a baby, and I imagine would have been broken just like every other top prospect in the fall of her yearling year.

A baby being in training does not mean the trainer is drilling them.  It is a gradual process from the round pen, to a rider on their back, hacking in the fields to starting to jog and gallop on the track.  There are usually lots of starts and stops along the way.  The patient trainer doesn't go on with a horse that really needs to be stopped on or backed off of.

13 Jan 2011 5:41 PM
Penny in Tx

Rams2050, Dyna King does look so much better. He is even holding himself better, does not look so dejected anymore. The halter is stunning on him, he so deserves this.

13 Jan 2011 6:01 PM
Barbara W

Marvelous news. Just made my day! Thanks so much!

13 Jan 2011 6:37 PM
Rags2Riches

Dyna King sure looks better considering when he was brought to the rescue and that halter is stunning on him. God, bless his donating humans for that.

Can't wait for Rags2Riches next foal to get here..

Ragsy  

13 Jan 2011 8:11 PM
Lou in TX

JAJ is right. Margano is in training in Fla. with the Stephens.  They also trained all the others in Barbaro's family (meaning the brothers). He is in excellent hands.  Would love to get a report from them on how he is doing. A picture would be nice to.

Penny in TX, you got a lot more snow than I did. You must be east of the DFW area. I'm just about 35 miles south of Dallas. Don't think I could handle 27 inches of snow.

Soo,soo happy about these two horses. 2011 is starting off good. Thanks to all who donated and kept them in your prayers. Something is working!!

Ragsy...are you going by Rags2Riches now? Just want to keep up with you.

13 Jan 2011 9:07 PM
susan

I am a retired prosecutor, and have worked with several horse rescues in southern AZ.  I have fostered horses that had been starved and others saved from the Mexico-bound slaughter truck.  HEART is as reputable as they come.  To suggest that they would keep Dyna King around as a cash cow is offensive and untrue.  Furthermore, in AZ intractable cruelty is grounds to euthanize a horse and to prosecute the owner if he will not euthanize.  The veterinarian caring for Dyna King would not permit HEART to keep Dyna King in a position of intractable suffering.  He is a capable and compassionate equine vet.  Would Dyna King be bucking and running if he were in agony?  I think not.  Some folks just need to find fault instead of helping out.  Please know that Dyna King is being taken care of with love and expertise.

13 Jan 2011 11:29 PM
JAJ

Susan,

You make an ANONYMOUS claim to all kinds of things that may (or may not) be true.  You attribute positions to a veterinarian who is not named.  Not only is this veterinarian not identified, but I have yet to read a report or even a quote from the vet.  I don't even know this horse is even under veterinary care other than for the initial x-rays.  I suspect he is, but I don't KNOW it as fact.

The fact of the matter is that I and almost everyone on this blog knows absolutely nothing about Heart or the true condition of Dyna King other than hearsay.  As a retired prosecutor, you understand why hearsay evidence is not allowed in court.  Go one step further and think about the reliability of anonymous hearsay evidence.

What I said above in no way suggests that Heart is anything other than as presented--a good, honorable charity trying its best to relieve the horrible suffering of far too many horses.  But they could be.  Having a 501 (c) IRS designation does not guarantee the organization is on the up and up, or that they use their funds wisely.  I've known of 501 (c) organizations that raked in millions in donations yet failed to use any of it for the cause that people donated to.  This does happen.

I think it is proper to question a rescue's fiscal policies as well as the decisions they make, especially when that organization seems to be quite successful collecting what appears to be a substantial amount of money from people who have never and will never have any contact with them except from this blog.  Scam artists do exist.

I don't know anything about Heart.  They might be the next coming of Mother Theresa to unwanted horses.  I hope they are.

This blog has decided that regardless of what is not known about Heart, they have been touched by Dyna King's story and wish to donate no questions asked.  There is nothing wrong with that.  We each make our decisions on where to give.

14 Jan 2011 5:37 AM
IVY77

Thank you for the updates.   I am so enjoying this blog.

Dyna-King looks much better than when we first saw him.  Thank you, Heart of Tucson and thank you, too, Susan, for the endorsement of this wonderful organization

14 Jan 2011 7:02 AM
Kathy

www.azleg.state.az.us/.../02910.htm

I found this online. Susan is correct, but then I knew she would be and the information about protracted suffering is a class 1 misdemeanor in the state of Arizona.

Folks, I've never met JAJ, but from what I've read, she is not intimidated by much and I don't believe anyone could get her to do anything by cajoling her. And, I think she enjoys debate.

I believe Heart of Tucson to be a wonderful place. However, what I think JAJ is getting at is she would be the type of person who would visit the rescue and check out references before she sent a horse there or sent in a donation. She is just saying be careful.

I am not sure who picked up Dyna King from the dog patch area, but it could have been the city or county. It appears both Bella and Lazarus were found in bad condition in the same area and were brought to Heart of Tucson. I would suggest watching the video at Heart of Tucson's website and check out the before and after pictures of the horses. The changes are quite remarkable.

I must say that for being there almost a month, Dyna King is beginning to perk up. And thank you Heart of Tucson for helping him.

14 Jan 2011 7:57 AM
CLee

Greg, I think Dyna King looks better. I was so wanting to get the update. It is hard to imagine that things got so awful in just three years. The last posted video also looks like he is more comfortable walking. Thank YOU for being the blog author and writer for a reputable publication that serves those with interests in thoroughbred horses.

14 Jan 2011 8:23 AM
susan

The vet is Dr. Mike Hutchinson - he is not anonymous.  He is also on the board of Equine Voices, a GFAS accredited sanctuary in southern AZ.  Look them (and him) up.  Wish some of you would spend as much time doing positive things for horses as critisizing those that do. Want to know if HEART is legit?  I'll give you the names of three more veterinarians that they use.  But then, you'd probably just find something else to criticize.  Sad.  Dyna King is improving, and thanks to everyone who cared enough to help.

14 Jan 2011 9:03 AM
Penny in TX

Lou in TX, I am about 20 miles east of the AR state line, about 10 miles south of OK state line. Snow was beautiful, but it can go away now. My thoughts on this rescue group is that they started treating Gifted/Dyna King before they knew who he was. This rescue group has been around sometime, even local news did a story on Heart. If there was something bad about this rescue group, we would have started hearing about it. I am selective about who I donate money to and I think this was money well spent. I do plan on donating more money, also to Hotstuf rescue group. I do not feel I am being scammed, because I chose to donate. Sometimes you just have to have faith people will do the right thing.

14 Jan 2011 9:27 AM
Debbie1948

Thanks for the update Greg.

14 Jan 2011 10:57 AM
Mike Relva

SUSAN

I agree and BTW I've talked with Judy over the past month and my impression is she's honest with emphasis on horse welfare. If you've read the many comments here on Dyna King you will find a certain individual that seems to find fault in everything,including treating DK. I can make a compelling point that I'm sure this individuals' life isn't altered in any means by someone trying to care for DK and place him on the road to recovery. Actually,I find it absurd at best!

14 Jan 2011 11:53 AM
Mike Relva

SUSAN

Agree totally,this individual will continue to question and slam no matter how much proof you reveal.

14 Jan 2011 1:28 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

Question? Now that Susan has supplied info vets,etc are you going to admit you're wrong? Why can't you be happy for this horse?

14 Jan 2011 2:03 PM
rams2050

All JAJ would have had to do is visit the Heart of Tucson website and watch, actually watch, the 13-minute video on the site's home page.

The before and after photos of the horses that Heart has rescued and saved are unbelievable!!

Some of these horses looked to be in terrible shape.  As anyone who has dealt with horses knows bringing a horse back from the brink of death can be a tricky situation, one that can have unfortunate results.  A good number of Heart's horses were brink-of-death cases, judging from their appearances.

Had some people bothered to watch the video they would have seen the way another Thoroughbred race horse, Streakin' Kitty, looked when brought to Heart of Tucson and how she looks now -- what a difference!

Plus, a shot of a horse being worked on at a fully-appointed vet clinic -- nurses and surgeon at the ready, the horse lying on a stainless steel operating table -- provides evidence of what Heart goes through to make certain each of its horses is taken care of to the best of their ability.

This is a heartwarming video, folks, and includes before and after shots of many, many horses like Lazarus, Geneva, Texas, Shogun, Trigger, and so many more, all of whom were in poor condition when they arrived and all of whom look fantastic now.  

Many of these horses have now been adopted and we even get to see them with their new owners.

Heart of Tucson is the gift that keeps on giving to anyone who loves horses -- and respects these magnificent and loving (when they get the chance) animals!

THANK YOU, Greg, so much for letting us know about Heart of Tucson.

14 Jan 2011 3:16 PM
rams2050

Sorry to be posting twice, and so close together, too, but Mike Hutchinson got his DVM from Colorado State University in 1993.  He also has the designation cVMA after his name.  

The website for Equine Voices is www.equinevoices.org/

There are at least two equine vets either on staff or on the board.  

14 Jan 2011 3:25 PM
Ragsy

No Lou

I just love Rags2Riches so much sometimes I can't contain myself..I wonder when her foal will be delivered.

She was bred to Galileo sometime in 2010 guess, I will have to ask for a photo from Coolmore Ireland, they sent me pictures of her other foals.

It seems they want people to see their babies. I wish all horsefarms were as generous as Ireland.  

14 Jan 2011 4:52 PM
Barbara W

Thank you, Susan, for weighing in with the extra info. We do appreciate it. Join us any time you have some news.

14 Jan 2011 5:07 PM
JAJ

Kathy is absolutely correct--I only want everyone to be careful.

There are a lot of charities who want money and I want to be sure my money goes, first of all, to an organization who actually uses their donated monies doing what they were donated for.  Second, I want my money to go to a rescue who makes decisions that are in line with my own philosophy.  Before I donate, or make a plea for money from others over the internet, I want to be sure the rescue is legit.  Plain and simple.

The next concern I have is:  Does the rescue's philosophy agree with my own?  I find is unwise for a rescue to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to save a horse who will be very difficult to place and maintain, and who has a poor prognosis for a pain-free life.  I'm talking about any horse, not Dyna King in particular.That is my philosophy, but it may not be yours.

There are something like 600 horse rescues in the US.  Some of them have been taken to court for cruelty charges.  Some are scams.  Some are wasteful. Before I donate I want to make sure the rescue is on the up and up.

I have my own criteria for what I expect.  It may not be yours, but I hope by my posts that you will all think about what you expect out of a rescue.  Just throwing money at the problem won't solve it.

Here are a couple of true situations that happened in the name of "rescue."

At Fort Erie Racetrack, a groom who had won many awards for "Best Groom" went about rehoming horses to riding schools and the like.  She recruited horses from trainers.  Many of these trainers gave her perfectly good horses that were no longer good racehorses.  The trainers and the owners were assured they were going to very good homes.  Many of these were quite well loved by owners and trainers alike.

They were rehomed alright, directly to the slaughter house.  It was only discovered when the slaughter house checked tattoos and the local TB rescue got involved with the support of the horsemen from the track.  Many, many horses that trainers were told had been rehomed to really good homes ended up slaughtered.  The horsemen were horrified.

In another situation, an animal that was very, very old had $3000 surgery.  The vet told the rescue before the surgery that the animal had a less than 10% chance of surviving the surgery.  The animal died during surgery as expected.  I find that kind of spending by a rescue unconscionable.  If it is your own animal and your own money, I think it is great that you would give an animal a chance.  I would applaud you for it.  But don't expect me to pay for it in the name of a rescue.

I think many of you don't understand what I write.  Maybe you don't read it since you have preconceived ideas of what I am trying to say.  I have never taken any position on Heart or Dyna King.  I have only posed questions that I and many of the other horsemen on the blog think are very relevant.  I have stated I have reservations because I can't find anything that assures me other than the rescue owner's words.  I need outside references, not anonymous postings.  Not hearsay.

Ram2050 suggested I just watch a video on Heart's site.  When I tried to watch it when the blog first appeared, it was blocked because of copyright infringement or something.

Mike Relva wants me to admit I'm wrong--but Mike, I haven't taken any position other than posing questions asking people to think about the whole unwanted horse issue.  I've pointed out that Dyna King's future is not all sunshine and lollipops (as Pokey put it), even if they get him through this crisis.  How can I be wrong about that?  Mike, you forget many on this blog believed and probably still believe he can be completely cured.

Have I criticized Heart?  I don't think so.  I've just asked for information that wasn't provided only be the rescue owner or anonymous posts.  No vets or blacksmiths have ever been quoted, only opinions of the rescue owner.  I think it is reasonable to ask for references.

Please, read what I write, not what you imagine I wrote.

14 Jan 2011 5:53 PM
JAJ

Thank you Susan for providing me with Dr. Michael Hutchinson's name.  He is the vet who has treated Dyna King.  I tracked him down and spoke to him about Heart and Dyna King.

I am thrilled to report that Heart has Dr. Hutchinson's full support.

Dr.  Hutchinson told me Dyna King's laminitis is very bad and chronic, but he felt he has a good chance at a good life as a pasture ornament.  Dyna King will need a lot of care for the rest of his life.  He also mentioned Dyna King's strong will to live.

Dr. Hutchinson did say he would be seeing him next week and was planning on posting something about Dyna King's progress to the blog.`

14 Jan 2011 6:33 PM
Mike Relva

KATHY

Here's the "million dollar question". Who died and made JAJ the superior to "educate" the rest of us? I'm certain many on here are educated enough to form opinions and gather info about Hearts. My opinion is this farm has the horses best interest first. I've talked  to Judy Glore three or four different times and was impressed. Not one person on here has carte blanche!

14 Jan 2011 6:40 PM
JAJ

Mike Relva,

Talking to the owner of a rescue and only the owner of a rescue is not exactly an unbiased reference.  In this particular case, it turns out the organization is legit.

There are many times when that is not the case.  See my story above about the racetrack groom rehoming horses.  Everyone who gave her horses knew her, talked to her, and had a professional or personal relationship with her.  No one who gave her a horse imagined it was possible that she sent them to slaughter.

It would be very easy to set up a "rescue" to sell horses for slaughter.  You could even have it registered as non profit and give yourself a nice fat salary.  Set up a web site with nice pictures and stories and then go around the tracks or breeding farms collecting unwanted horses and then ship them directly to the slaughter house.  Little overhead and you wouldn't even have to buy the horses to begin with.  Don't kid yourself--there are lots of people who would happily do something like that.

It is reasonable to ask for references when a charity comes asking for money.  There are too many dishonorable people trying to separate good people from their money to not be careful.

14 Jan 2011 7:06 PM
Greg J.

First,

I don't mean to sound redundant, but, while I appreciate the kind words, the real praise goes to everyone that has donated to HEART of Tucson, Judy Glore for taking Dyna King/Gifted in, the volunteers at HEART of Tucson, and, of course, Dyna King/Gifted!  Thanks to ALL of you!

Second,

Now that we have JAJ's approval, can we please agree that HEART has the best interest in mind for Dyna King/Gifted?  Thanks ;)

I do agree that one needs to do their homework on any rescue they are thinking of helping.  I have been asked numerous times on this blog to post other rescues so we could support those.  Honestly, that is not my responsibility.  I am very careful who I donate to and everyone needs to be also.  I have found, the best way is to visit a particular rescue in person.  If that is not an option, one can make phone calls, call local Vets, look at their website, check references, etc.  Some red flags,  a rescue not answering questions, not updating their website, taking in too many horses for the land they have, etc.  Despite what some think here, I did my homework before I wrote Dyna King's story. 

Lastly,

I will be writing my next blog about the brothers very soon, and it will explain alot on what is going on in all three of their lives.  Thanks for everyone's patience.  

I will always update Dyna King/Gifted's progress on this thread, that I promise :)

14 Jan 2011 7:08 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

I think you take alot for granted,such as behaving as if others here don't have a brain. You obviously have the right to spend your money the way you like,so do I ! Can't speak for everyone else,but I don't need an education from you,that you can be certain of. As I've indicated prior,you seem bright but many here are too. You've raised many questions regarding Hearts,can counter and say what evidence says you own horses etc as you say? An old college friend of mine, that's a very successful lawyer in Miami always said,"the door swings both ways".

14 Jan 2011 8:04 PM
Kathy

Mike Relva,

The answer to the million dollar question is no one.

JAJ has jumped on my case on at least one occasion at BloodHorse. She appears to be a very dominant, opionionated woman, who pulls no punches, likes to have her own way and enjoys being a "devil's advocate."

And most importantly, I don't always agree with her. Every time she says pasture ornament I hear finger nails scraping across a school's "black board" and want to scream.

Many horses are pasture ornaments. Stallions, providing they are not shuttled to the southern hemisphere are "pasture ornaments" for most of the year. A lot of mares become pasture decoration once they become broodmares.

I submit to everyone that there is nothing wrong with a horse being a "pasture ornament", they are simply not being ridden, except if they are a stallion at Three Chimneys Farm and they aren't Dynaformer.

I often wonder if Zenyatta misses being ridden. She doesn't seem to mind, but I still wonder.

Some people come across as freight trains and others come across as VW "Beetles." They both can mow you over with their opinions, some just do it quicker.

But occasionally, JAJ does have valid points.

I believe Heart of Tucson to be a fabulous place and D.K./Gifted will be around for a long time. I also believe Dr. Hutchinson was asked a lot of questions by JAJ.

I would also like to know if people can visit Heart of Tucson. I'm closer than most and wonder if people who are interested can drop by and see the horses.

And Greg,

Thank you in advance for your future column on the brothers. I am just going to have to make a visit this year to the east coast to see them race.  

14 Jan 2011 9:06 PM
susan

Kathy,

HEART of Tucson welcomes visitors.  The horses love company, and of course, carrots or apples are always much appreciated!  I am constantly amazed by the transformations that take place with horses under their care, and am proud to know these folks.  I fostered Grace and her filly Phoenix, the first horses they saved from slaughter, and am now fostering Fayla and Lily.  Lily will be at the Southern Arizona Horse Expo on Sunday at the University of Arizona Equine Farm working with John Lyons.  She is a sweet horse saved from starvation and abandonment and I am thrilled John Lyons will be starting her under saddle.

14 Jan 2011 9:17 PM
jclson(fan of nicanor

Greg and Mike Remember on the news conference from the Jackson's when Barbaro Died.  Give our love we have for Barbaro and give it to a horse that is alive Remember You two get alot of credit for what you have done Heart of Tucson and FOB that gave donations and blessed DK. The love we have for Barbaro did just that We gave it to another live horse and look what happens.  DK is  a nice looking horse.

14 Jan 2011 10:12 PM
Lou in TX

jclson(fan of nicanor

Thanks for the wonderful reminder. We FOB's did just that!!

14 Jan 2011 10:25 PM
JAJ

Kathy,

I am sorry you are offended by the term "pasture ornament."  It is a common term.  It is one of endearment and is not derogatory at all.  It refers to a horse who has no job, usually because of disability.  I love the term--an ornament is something pretty and valued just for existing.  An ornament really has no use other than being treasured.  I think that pretty much describes any horse that is not sound enough to be ridden but whose owners love the horse and take care of it.

My broodmare is not a pasture ornament, but will become one when she is retired.  Breeding stallions are not pasture ornaments, either, until they retire.  So there you have my definition of a pasture ornament.  I'm sorry it bothers you.

And Mike Relva, you are correct, you don't know if I own any horses or ever did.  You might suspect I do simply because I have a fairly broad and in-depth knowledge of the industry and training, but you don't really know.  The big thing is that I'm not asking for money.  I don't have to prove I am legit because there is no risk attached to me.  I'm only giving information that some may accept or may reject.

14 Jan 2011 10:26 PM
Judy Glore

Hello everyone,

I would like to explain a few things to you. I didn't mention our vets name out of courtesy for Dr. Hutchinson so that he wouldn't get bombarded with calls with out his permission first. I talked with him this evening and he did say that JAJ did call him. He is coming back out Tuesday to do his physical, and progress report for us. I asked him to post a report for us to you all. We usually don't get horses in here with people that care about them. We are thrilled to see that this guy has people to love him, and we plan to bring him back to health, and send him to a fitting place. He belongs in a wonderful pasture some where with other buddies that have had his same career. We have a long way to go, and this won't happen over night, or even in a few months, but it will happen. We are shooting for 1 year. I don't get paid a salary, or a dime from my own rescue because we just don't have it yet. I put everything I have, and own into this. We own the property, it is my house and land. I have donated all my barns, and stalls to HEART to make this work for the horses. I am very aware that there are some we won't be able to save, and we have already been faced with this a few times. It is always a hard choice to make, but we won't let an animal suffer that we know we can not bring back to a life with out pain someday. We also encourage people to know who you are donating to, do the home work and see the results.

We rescued 53 horses for the year 2010, and have rehabbed them all, and have adopted 30 out to wonderful homes, with loving partners.  We also have 4 adoptions pending for approvals right now so we hope to even have a better year for the horses for 2011. One last thing, we love it when people come out to see the horses, and spend some time with them, mainly because it enables us to teach, inform, and the horses love the attention. I hope we have answered any doubts about us. I can tell you this, we have been able to do what we do because of people like you that follow rescues, and check on the horses, and then donate so that we can do the labor. It does take us all, no one person can do this alone and make it work.  Even JAJ who checked into us did her job. We also see some shady places that give rescues a bad name, but we are in it for the long haul. As long as they need us we will be here.

For those that have asked about my son,,,,,,,he gets out of the hospital the 18th of January, and is walking, talking, and writing on face book again. Thank you for the prayers, he to is a miracle for me. Gabriel Giffords is next, YAY!!!!!

   Night all

     Judy

14 Jan 2011 10:32 PM
Mike Relva

JCLSON(fan of Nicanor)

Greatly appreciate what you said,but the credit goes to Greg. I admire his love for animals,also without him calling attention to DK,I wouldn't know anything about it.  Thanks for the kind words,we need more individuals like yourself.

14 Jan 2011 10:43 PM
Lou in TX

Judy,  thanks for taking the time to let us know where Heart stands. I am sure all on this blog very much appreciate all you are doing for soo many horses. Your work comes from the heart. Wish there were more people like you in this world.

I'm sure we will continue to donate until this horse has a good forever home. He is definitely one worth saving.

Greg, thank you again for bring this to our attention. We can't help if we don't know about such things. The FOB's are always there for the long haul.

JAJ... I hope you are satisfied now that Heart is a very legit place. So can you please put it aside and move on. I for one am sorry Judy had to take her time to write to all of us about Heart and how they were on the up and up. She has a son who is recovering from an awful accident and could have been spending time with him rather than writing to us. Some things you just have to take on faith or your gut feeling. This should have been one of them. Can we move on now?

Greg, can't wait for you new news for us. It will be great hearing about ALL our brothers. Take care and be careful in all that snow.

15 Jan 2011 1:53 AM
Greg J.

Judy,

Thank You :)

Continued prayers for Sean and Gifted...

15 Jan 2011 6:54 AM
Mike Relva

JUDY

Appreciate you taking time yesterday to post. Wishing continued recovery for your son and DK.

15 Jan 2011 11:00 AM
Voyager

JAJ,

Sorry you never got the memo but the person that died and left you in charge, lacked the authority.

I am embarrased that Judy deemed it necessary to explain herself in what should have been universally understod and excepted on FAITH.  That is, Greg would not have written this piece had he not put in time and effort to fully endorse Heart of Tuscan's plight with Dyna King. The bloodhorse would have been very attentive to the legitimacy of his findings and rest assured, posted a caveat. Better yet, boxed his ears. Sorry, Greg!

No one posted a plea for you to send money directly to Greg, bloodhorse or the local money pit. Greg asked us to be charitable at a very appropriate time for charity, Christmas time. You were under no obligation to respond and we, as thinking adults, never asked for your advice on the merits of his plea. As hard as it may be for you to grasp, people can and will take offense at your know it all attitude no matter how you try to present yourself.      

You wrote the following: "I find is unwise for a rescue to spend thousand and thousand of dollars to save a horse who will be very difficult to place and maintain, and who has a poor prognosis for a pain-free life. That is what rescue oufits do. Otherwise they would be a retirement facility or home for the aged. They RESCUE. Not all Rescue sites are retirment places nor are all Retirement operations capable of providing rescue care. They each provide a legitimate need.

 Why are you here?

This is a blog that revolves around the life and times of Barbaro's brothers and one that encompasses his memorable fight for life. Had he lived, Barbaro would have been a pasture ornament. Albeit a very famous and beloved one but a pasture companion nevertheless. Can't you see the irony of your position? Consequently, in light of what you've posted in the beginning, it is truly offensive and most telling.  

15 Jan 2011 2:10 PM
Barbara W

Judy--

Thank you so much for the updates, including the good news about Sean. we were in Arizona in September. I wish I had known about you then. I would have loved to stop by and meet you. Thank you so much for all you are doing for Dyna/Gifted and all the others. I check in on "you all" every day for updates.

15 Jan 2011 2:23 PM
Yes It's True Sherry

JAJ, what have you done?

The idea that Judy deemed it necessary to respond to your self serving antics is embarrassing.

To Heart of Tuscan,

Please accept our appologies that some on this site have taken it upon themselves to question your varacity by indirect insinuations and please do not believe that person represents anyone but themselves.

The vast majority of us understand that Greg would not have mentioned Dyna King's plight and your need for assistance had there been a question of propriety concerning Hearts intentions. You have no need to defend Heart or yourself to the readers of this blog. Your actions concerning Dyna King are to be commended as are they with all the horses you have taken in. Please accept our heartfelt appreciation for all the good you do and have done before now. We fans of Barbaro are blessed that we can be here for anyone that helps the needy in the name of genuine love and charity.

Greg,

You are a better man than most! JAJ doesn't seem to understand that to question what has taken

place in the name of reassurance for ones principles, brings forth an implied question of morality or insinuuation of possible wrong doing. I cannot emphasize enough the word UNDERSTAND.

When you posted this article and asked for charity from us, we as a whole knew you were speaking from an knowledgable and truthful position. In deference to you, we responded accordingly but JAJ took it upon herself to school us on the merits of rescue and the pit falls there of, forcing some to become voracious in their remarks to her. It's most distasteful that Judy felt the need to respond but neither Judy nor you must give JAJ's submissions any more than a passing glance for she represents no one but herself. Yu have done a very gracious thing and Heart has worked miracles. Thank you for being there.    

15 Jan 2011 4:15 PM
Mike Relva

VOYAGER/SHERRY

Bravo!

15 Jan 2011 9:14 PM
JAJ

Voyager,

You are making assumptions.

First, nowhere is it written that Greg in any way shape or form checked out Heart.  Nowhere.

Nowhere is it written that Blood-Horse checks out anything Greg writes or checks whether or not Heart is legit.

Greg posted asking us to send in money to Heart.

Somewhere along the line I wanted to know who Heart was and did they do what they said they did.  All I had to go on was a name, a web site and a rescue owner posting in cyberspace.

No, faith is not a good enough reason to just accept what is written in cyberspace.  Faith in what?  A computer and an internet connection?

Every reputable organization understands that.  No rescue organization ever wants to see money donated to a fraudulent rescue, and believe me, there are some out there.  No reputable organization would be offended giving references, real references not anonymous posts on a blog.

I got the references I needed.

Have any of you ever received those ridiculous emails from Nigeria?  The ones claiming they have millions in a bank account, but they need you to be a middleman for them?  Do you realize there are idiots out there that actually fall for those scams?  Faith just doesn't cut it in the real world.

When you talk about just having faith, just remember all those trainers and owners at Fort Erie who gave their horses to that groom--had faith in her that she would do what she promised and find them good homes.  Just remember that those people's horses ended up slaughtered.  They were slaughtered because the owners and trainers had faith in someone they knew personally.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking out an organization one donates money to.

But I think the real issue is that I stated MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION on whether a rescue should choose to spend a great deal of money on a starved horse with severe laminitis when they could use that money instead to save many more.  Most on this blog feel that saving this one horse is worth whatever it costs, and anyone who doesn't agree with that position is the devil incarnate.

So, why don't we agree to disagree on where we each MIGHT choose to draw the line on humane euthanasia.

15 Jan 2011 10:57 PM
Pauley

Sitting here at home handicapping tomorrows races at Santa Anita  and felt myself wondering how the rescue horse Dyna King was doing. Boy, sure was happy to read how he's improving. Also that Judy's son is getting better every day. We're Snow Birds, my Mrs and I and we hope to get near Dyna Kings' way later this spring. Mighty nice people, that Heart of Tuscan bunch are and they makes us want to do better. Thanks also to you Greg boy, you seem to be pretty well rounded and upstanding yourself.  Can't be easy what you're doing.

16 Jan 2011 2:18 AM
Penny in TX

Judy, I am so glad to hear your son is doing well. Thank you for all you do.

I do not recall Greg asking us to send money. He let us know of a need and many of us responded. The amount I donate to any rescue or charity certainly will not make or break me. I did research Heart before I did send money and I could not find any redflags. I have watched that video many times and it is always bittersweet. I do believe in humane euthanasia having done so to my beloved 18 year old dog "Duke" last August. Duke was still able to walk around, respond to us, but life was no longer happy or enjoyable for him. I could have euthanized him years before when he started having health problems, but I chose to care for him with the help of my Vet. When an animal starts to shut down, not eating, you know in your gut when it is time. In those last years with help from medication he was happy, running around, playful, always happy to see me when I got home from work. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do, but as my Vet said I would feel such relief and I did. I also faced putting one of my Quarterhorses down years ago, but chose to have a retired horse racing Vet take care of him for a severe leg injury that involved my horse being in a sling and a special shoe and brace made for him. He did recover and went back to roping and pleasure riding. Yes you do have to have faith in people and no one on this site would want any animal to suffer needlessly. Plus the thing with my horse happened in the 60's and medicine has progressed tremendously since then.

JAJ, why did you not check out Heart before you started your posts. I did feel like you were wanting people not to donate for what ever reason it might be. Like I said before, what impressed me the most is that Heart started treating him before they even knew who he was.  

Greg, thanks for all the updates and can't wait for the report on the brothers.

16 Jan 2011 2:27 PM
Lou in TX

JAJ...thanks for your opinion. We can't blame you for your reasoning.  So, like you said, we're going to agree to disagree and move on. PLEASE!!

Pauley... if you do get to visit Dyna King/Gifted, would you please post here and let us all know how he's progressing?  I'm sure we'll be going to their web site but someone who sees him is person is much more informative that reading a web page. Thanks ahead of time.

16 Jan 2011 2:35 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

I think all you want to accomplish is keeping a DEBATE GOING! This is overkill! You checked it out and you see Hearts is one hundred per cent real. It's not your decision regarding DK. Think you've made it clear how you stand,most on this blog,including myself disagree with you. Get over it,turn the page!

16 Jan 2011 3:16 PM
Ragsy

Mike Relva

I agree 101% with you about jaj.  

GregJ

Thank You again for this story of DynaKing it is fanTastic. It really touches my heart and the picture of Barbaro's halter really hit home run with me.

 I will make some monthly donations to this fella along with HotStuff and Tac.

God Bless all horses.  

16 Jan 2011 4:40 PM
JAJ

Penny in Texas,

Second sentence, seventh Paragraph, Greg wrote:

"In the spirit of Christmas, while I know times are very tough for everyone, a small donation, no matter the amount, would greatly help Dyna King/Gifted on his long road to recovery."

That is clearly a request for donations.

I did try to check Heart out personally.  I looked at their web site.  I noticed they didn't have the correct color attributed to one horse, and it looked like another horse's color was mis-identified.  Not knowing colors on a horse makes me wonder if they were novices.  If they were novices, there was a real risk that they were in over their heads.  I asked Greg specifically if he had checked them out and he did not answer my questions.  I contacted Blood-Horse, trying to get clarification.  I don't use people who advertise on a particular web site for references of that business as I don't expect them to be particularly impartial.  Nor do I use anonymous blog entries.  Susan supplied the vet's name and I tracked him down and was reassured that, yes, Heart was a decent place.

But all that is beside the point.  Through this whole blog I was really trying to get across three points.  I was hoping people who read what I wrote would understand that the three points I was trying to make applied to ALL rescues and rescue situations.  Somehow I failed to get that across--I was discussing the big picture and using Heart and DK as an example--or I just came across badly enough that many were not prepared to listen to any ideas from me.  It didn't help that many called me a granny killer--even I get annoyed when anyone, even anonymous bloggers, attack my character.

The first point is that money flowing into the horse rescue industry is limited, finite and not sufficient to save them all.  Did this one horse (or a horse in a similar situation) warrant a large investment, knowing that others would not be saved because of all the money spent on this one.  Most on this blog felt that this particular horse was worth whatever it took.

The argument can be made that no funds were diverted away from other horses since none on this list would have donated for another horse.  It was the Barbaro connection that brought in the money.  That argument has a lot of merit as long as the FOBs support DK for near 100% of his costs until he can be successfully rehomed.

The second point I was trying to make was to open a discussion on whether this particular horse has a good enough prognosis to warrant diverting all this money to this one horse.  It is unknown whether he can live a reasonably pain-free life and he will need specialized and fairly expensive care until the day he dies.  As a horseman, I was not satisfied with the description by the rescue owner and there was no report or quotes from the vet or blacksmith.  Most of you think he deserves a chance.  Fair enough.

The third question I raised was who was Heart or any rescue that appears on the internet.  Reading their web site just doesn't cut it for me.  I'm from Missouri, the Show Me state.

There has been quite a bit of nastiness directed towards me for no reason.  I have not treated others whose opinions I don't share with the disrespect I have been shown.  Many on this blog somehow think that ad hominem arguments are the only way to debate, which is quite sad.

16 Jan 2011 4:59 PM
Mike Relva

JAJ

It's pretty absurd you would go to the extreme of wasting the vets time calling him when you have no intention of donating to DK. Your motive was trying to substantiate your insinuations,which proved wrong. Ridiculous.

16 Jan 2011 5:57 PM
Ragsy

While reading poetry today I found this about the horse.

God made the horse from the

breath of the winds,

the beauty of the earth,

and the soul of the angel...

May they forever run with

our hearts..

16 Jan 2011 6:45 PM
Voyager

JAJ,

It appears you lack a fundamental understanding of the word IMPLIED. I guess you have to be schooled on the elementary principals of proprietorship. For instance, this is not Greg's blog. Greg is the monitor. This site belongs to the bloodhorse. Ergo, Greg has an understanding with bloodhorse on what he will and will not do and vice versa. In his capacity as monitor, Greg will not libel bloodhorse, nor incite situations where bloodhorse would be concerned. IN other words, be the responsible person they know him to be. Was it necessary that everybody know what was said in their conversations of understanding? WE were told that Greg would now monitor this site and everything else was IMPLIED.

Do you honestly believe someone out of the blue told Greg about Heart and he immediately sat down and wrote this article? Knowing how he has researched information on the Barbaro brothers and in conveying his sources of information, one can reasonably ascertain that Greg did his homework on Dyna King. Therefore,

based on a history of truthfulness, the information conveyed to us was enough for one to respond accordingly. If you required additional information in order to make a determination of fact, you could have quietly contacted Heart by email and done your homework. No, you seemed to need the recognition for being the main adversary on this site.

16 Jan 2011 9:40 PM
Mike Relva

I believe Greg did his homework as always regarding Hearts/DK. I didn't think twice about it.

16 Jan 2011 10:14 PM
JAJ

Mike Relva,

Where did you get the idea that I didn't want to donate to DK?  You are making assumptions again.  You read my mind over the internet now?

17 Jan 2011 1:32 AM
Jan

AD HOMINEN, JAJ?

Very funny coming from you!

Do you know what that means?

"Slaughter as it is now is horrendous but I don't think it needs to be". 12/25/10  1:11

Do you comphrehend what you are saying here?  YOU'RE ADVOCATING SLAUGHTER!

"One concern I have is that this rescue will keep Dyna King alive and suffering against medical advice only because he seems to be a good income producer for them.

I'm not saying that is the happening here, only that it is a legitimate fear I have".

12/27/10   10:38

Insulting cynicism, and trying to hide behind a disclaimer.

"That the Director thinks he has good chance makes me question the judgement of the rescue."

12//27/10     12:35

You really don't know how insulting this statement is, do you?

"My question to the rescue, is why are you putting so much of your scare resources into what I suspect is a hopeless case. I have to question the fiscal responsibility and judgement of that rescue".  12/27/10    7:55    A total lack of propriety.

This has not been an intellectual debate from you. It's the rantings of an opinionated, biased and pompous egoist, aimed towards the intelligentsia.

17 Jan 2011 1:55 AM
JAJ

Jan,

It is obvious you don't understand the definition of ad hominem arguments if you even suggest that many on this blog don't use this "technique" to win points.

I stand by the points I was making.  Those are very valid questions to ask of this rescue or any rescue.

As a horseman, I have somewhat of a grasp as to the severity of the damage and likely prognosis after the rescue director described DK's condition.  Most on this blog felt he could be cured and made normal again, which is never going to happen.

My position on slaughter has never been the issue.  You don't know where stand.

17 Jan 2011 7:26 AM
Anne K.

Hey FOBs...

heres someone who follows this blog for a long time now even if he never postet anything (because my english sucks). First of all I also donated some money to DynaKing and I'm thrilled to see him already in better condition. Can't believe it's only a month since he's at HEART.

But to some to my point why I am finally writing something on a blog I really enjoyed the past years.

This debate that's going on and on here for quite a while now is totally annoying me.

Dont' now where to start...

In my opinion some people around this blog should take a deeeeeep breath and begin to THINK about what they're writing down. We have an anonymous blog here and sometimes it might be difficult to look objective at what is written by others. But. At least. TRY.

And come on... if someone says he agrees to disagree, then DO it. If someone says he has another opinion, then so be it. What about that? Not everybody can have the same opinion (that would be really boring) but that's no reason to attack someone. There are NO false opinions, different, yes, and sometimes it's nessessary to discuss about different opinions, but in this case it's apparently not possible to "discuss" as some are shooting against one or two single persons. Thats NOT discussing.

Mike Relva & all

You didn't think twice about it? Do you ever think twice about something that's told to you by a person you "know" or "trust"? No? See.

EVERYBODY should ask questions, questions can NOT be stupid, ANY question is important and reasonable. If you don't raise questions, then run with your eyes shut and some day you will run against a big wall and perhaps stand up and realize what you were doing. But don't annoy other with your blindness.

The harder and >nasty< the question, the better it is. People who don't like nasty questions are normally people who fear their lifes or think the world is a neat place to live and nothing bad happens (or at least they think the bad things that happen could never happen to them).

But back to this stupid argument that's going on here.

HEART (after all we finally heard from different people) is a trustful rescue organization and will take good care to this special fella. I absolutely don't think Judy was bothered to clear things up for us. As JAJ said people that have nothing to hide would willingly explain their business to you. They want you to know all about them and ask questions because they want you to support them and perhaps come and visit and tell other people about them.

I can't believe this (nearly) hate campaign against a few very realistic and objective thinking people is going on for so long.

JAJ is doing great by educating the ones who like to listen and think about a few things themselves but it's a loosing battle against the big mass who just don't seem to understand that JAJ is not against them.

What are you all feared about? To wake up and find that it's true what someone told you and the big black monster under your bed becomes reality?

I'm sorry Greg J for name calling some people (you might edit it out) and want to thank you for all your information and work about the brothers of Barbaro and I honestly look forward to read about Nicanor, Lentenor, Margano and perhaps Babynor soon again. Hopefully without tiring battles.

Apparently my cat is begging for attention and I cannot resist <3

17 Jan 2011 8:12 AM
PatC

Way to go Jan!  Maybe something will sink in, but don't hold your breath. Your last paragraph says it best.

JAJ - why don't you go spill your venom on another blog? Obvioulsy no one here wants to here your rantings.  

Let's all just skip over anything written by JAJ. Maybe if she doesn't get the attention she so greatly needs, she'll go away.

17 Jan 2011 8:59 AM
Mike Relva

JAJ

Please don't insult my intelligence. It's crystal if it were up to you DK wouldn't be given a chance. Who are you fooling,yourself? I find many of your comments a disgrace. You should check your ego!

17 Jan 2011 9:24 AM
Judy Glore

Greg thank you so much for doing Dyna Kings story here. And thank you for checking into him. We learned a lot more about him from you. We don't usually look so deeply into their past when they come in because we only look for their future. Thank you for sharing his story with everyone. This has helped insure his well being, and given him lots of equine angels to make sure he never gets lost again. Your awesome. Thank you everyone.

    Judy

17 Jan 2011 10:06 AM
Voyager

Mike Relva,

You are to be commended for being such a stalwart beacon of reason and sanity in what has become a lost cause. JAJ will never comphrend how totally inane her position on Dyna King had become.

Bragging about tracking down the vet mentioned by Susan was more than absurd, it's chilling. To decry the protection of anonymity yet failing to see the irony of her actions is absurd! To think that an individual would go to that extent in light of all the reassurances provided, seems down right sinister!      

17 Jan 2011 10:38 AM
Greg J.

Judy,

Your quite welcome :)

I just wish people would understand that this is about Dyna King/Gifted and his recovery and not about their egos.

Hope Sean and Dyna King/Gifted are doing well this morning!

17 Jan 2011 10:38 AM
Mike Relva

VOYAGER/RAGSY

First I enjoy reading your comments,thanks for the kind words. Yes,Voyager it's disturbing how far some will go to attempt to win a point,especially when they fall on their face. This blog is supposed to be about respect,not trying to take down a innocent horse in need. Can't even describe my disdain,cause the words I'm thinking wouldn't be published.

17 Jan 2011 11:04 AM
Dona

YAHOO......

Nicanor worked out this morning!

17 Jan 2011 11:04 AM
Mike Relva

ANNE K

When I stated "I didn't think twice about it" that's cause I'm certain Greg did his research regarding Hearts/DK. I've read many of Greg's posts over the past few years and find him objective,honest,fair and bright. Also,had four  conversations over the past month with Judy and find her warm,caring and with the emphasis of putting animals first. Hope that clears that up for you and BTW there are many intelligent individuals on this blog that may just know a little more regarding issues than JAJ (shock). As I stated last week,who died and made her the one of reason? Most people on here have figured her out,myself included.

17 Jan 2011 11:16 AM
CHEESY

Question is, are you sure JAJ is a real person? Maybe they are an old BURROUGHS or IBM Main Frame left behind in a forgotten warehouse some where and any resemblance of humanity is merely a jussive maneuver gone wrong. All kidding aside, if it was me, I would be on the first Big Grey Dog leaving town, tail tucked, looking bruised and bleeding or at the local sinners bin seeking absolution for fraud. Who said, "WHEN WILL THEY EVER LEARN"? Gheber?

17 Jan 2011 11:37 AM
Penny in TX

Judy, thank you for keeping us updated on Gifted/Dyna King. I look forward to updates. As with any animal or person we realize that sometimes recovery can be a day to day basis. Once again thank you.

As to all the repeat "points" that are being made. Saying it once is enough, but once it is repeated over and over, people will start to tune out. It does start to get old. We are all intelligent enough to "get it" the first time.

Thanks Greg, Mike R, and Voyager, agree with all of you.

17 Jan 2011 12:15 PM
Jean in Chicago

Could we take a short break in the continuing debate as to whether JAJ is a horrible person who hates animals or a hard headed realist (albeit with a tend toward pessimism)?

My question is off on another tangent and really only connects through a question on laminitis.  Does anybody know what happened with Thorn Song?  I know he was treated with stem cells and first reports seemed great, but I haven't read anything for almost a year now.

WindyCity--just a phrase you used makes me wonder if you know Ursula, Sandra, Elaine, Gloria, Dave, Dwight or Dr. Swanson?

Judy, best wishes for Sean, Dyna King and the rest of the crew.

I better hit submit before Victoria the cat wanders across the keyboard and adds her own personal, nontranslatable message.

17 Jan 2011 12:31 PM
Ragsy

BEAUTIFUL 5 YEAR OLD NICANOR HAD A WORKOUT...WHOOPEE...can we please get back to these horses..

17 Jan 2011 12:35 PM
Dona

Greg,

I just made another donation to Heart for Dyna King/Gifted but I emailed Judy to use the money any where it's needed. I was so thrilled that Nicanor worked out today and equally thankful that he is both healthy and dearly loved. I hope Dyna King is feeling the love and well wishes we all want for him. I went on the Heart web site and watched their video and OMG it makes me sick at my stomack to read some of the things that have been said here about them. It's so shameful.

Bringing Dyna King/Gifted's  story to light was such a wonderful thing for you to do and for that, I thank you.    

17 Jan 2011 12:48 PM
JAJ

Just to clarify--I left a detailed message with the vet's answering service explaining why I was calling, where I was calling from and leaving my name and phone number.

The vet called me.

17 Jan 2011 1:52 PM
rams2050

JAJ wrote "Most on this blog felt he could be cured and made normal again, which is never going to happen."

Again, where was this stated?  I recall NO ONE thinking this or writing this.

Surely we all knew he had suffered catastrophic injury to the bones of his feet.  I think most of those who visit here are not wide-eyed Pollyannas with a Disneyesque outlook of the world.

We may not believe in slaughtering the gentle giants who have been bred solely to serve us humans, but that merely speaks to our sense of humanity with regard to these creatures.

I believe I speak for many of those who frequent this blog when I say that the MOST we were hoping for was that DK/Gifted be given the CHANCE to be made as whole as it was possible to make him, given his unfortunate and regrettable circumstances.

You wouldn't 'put down' Uncle Freddie because he suffers from painful rheumatoid arthritis, would you?  So why do it with Gifted -- BEFORE anyone knows how he is going to respond to treatment?

He will NEVER be whole, probably NEVER be able to be ridden, but this horse has a chance to have a LIFE that is better than what he had in the immediate past, and which might even be reasonably pain free.

WHY NOT GIVE GIFTED THAT CHANCE?

17 Jan 2011 2:58 PM
Kathy

Great to see Nicanor back doing workouts. It would be interesting to see if you have any silliness left in you being the adult you now.

Greg,

When you updated on the brothers it would be nice to know what their personalities are now given the fact they are 4 and 5.

And as always, thank you.

17 Jan 2011 3:28 PM
IVY77

I just made my second donation to Hearts of Tucson and hope that others will join me in supporting these wonderful people and the work they do.   Crazy people and character assassins can spew all the venom they want on this blog; I'm putting my money where my heart is and to heck with all of them.  Thank you, Hearts of Tucson for the wonderful work you are doing on behalf of Dyna-King and all the other horses.  

17 Jan 2011 3:36 PM
Pokey

Voyager said: "Bragging about tracking down the vet mentioned by Susan was more than absurd, it's chilling. To decry the protection of anonymity yet failing to see the irony of her actions is absurd! To think that an individual would go to that extent in light of all the reassurances provided, seems down right sinister"

WTH?? Yes, I am sure that JAJ drove to Tucson and dragged the vet out of his bed and shined a flashlight in his face until he cracked! If he's a vet, she had his name from Susan and he's most likely in the phone book, for God's sake! Why is it any more "sinister" than Mike Relva, also "anonymous" (we don't know that's his real name), calling Judy Glore to inquire about DK. Judy didn't know who Mike was, any more than the vet knew who JAJ was.

JAJ, stop defending yourself, these rabblerousers aren't worth the effort. Those of us with a brain know what you meant and how you meant it. The rest go blind, deaf, and dumb at the sight of the words "slaughter" and "pasture ornament" and can't think after that, only react.

17 Jan 2011 5:45 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

OK, maybe I should have done this earlier, but, enough is enough already!  Let's agree to disagree, OK?  Thanks...

As mentioned already, Nicanor had his first published work since the Three Coins Up Stakes at Aqueduct on November 26.  He went three furlongs in 38 seconds flat on the dirt track at Palm Meadows Training Center in Florida.  Nice to see him back on the track!

17 Jan 2011 6:15 PM
Mike Relva

POKEY

FYI, not that I have anything to prove to you,but that's my real name. Would you like to see my d. license? lol Really tired of all this!

17 Jan 2011 6:28 PM
Jan

OH my Pokey,

If you truly do not know the difference between Mike Relva calling Judy, President of Heart, a charity rescue operation and JAJ "HUNTING DOWN" a vet that is going about his busy day, saving lives and answering to on one but Heart, then I pity your ignorance.

For what purpose could JAJ have had? Offered her medical opinion, staff, supplies, assistance? What did she need from him that could not be ascertained from any one of several caretakers at Heart or Judy? EGO. That's the only explanation. Judy is not only used to getting that kind of call, she welcomes it because maybe, it's from a potential donor. The Vet does not, and its because his time is very valuable. Just maybe that time spent with JAJ could have been used to treat some poor starving horse. Think about it, is't only common sense.

17 Jan 2011 9:03 PM
Lou in TX

Please everyone, let's respect Greg J's request and get off this subject.  I for one will not read anymore comments that are negative to the horse or anyone writing on this blog.  I'm sick and tired of this subject.  Can we please make comments about the brothers and Nicanor's workout. Thanks

17 Jan 2011 9:25 PM
Lou in TX

Hey FOB's   ZENYATTA WON HORSE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!  Don't know about the rest of you but I'm about to bust a gut! This is the perfect ending for such an amazing mare. The dancing Zenyatta.  Never be another one like her. So happy for Team Z and everybody that worked with this beautiful horse.

Just thought you might like to know.

17 Jan 2011 10:45 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

It's great Zenyatta FINALLY gets her just reward. Congrats to her and all connections.

18 Jan 2011 12:34 AM
Mary

Ramon Dominguez picked up the Eclipse for outstanding jockey of the year award.  If you all will remember, Ramon road "tough as nails" Nicanor to victory in an allowance race.  Hopefully he will ride Nicanor again.

Zenyatta, likely one of the greatest horses of all time, finally got what she deserved.  My day is made.    

18 Jan 2011 9:16 AM
jclson(Fanof Nicanor)

Sometimes we all have to get rid of the toxic people in our lives and move on,  All this arguing and what is right and wrong and what we are suppose to do and not do.  We are wasting our time JAJ. We can not save every horse we all know that but we can try and save what we can.  Your fighting and fussing what Mike and Greg does could spent saving another horse.  Can we get information on the boys PLease.

18 Jan 2011 10:12 AM
Ragsy

Hey Lou

I sure hope there is another like Zenyatta, how about her future foal..can't wait to see that future baby...finally: Zenyatta is recognized as Horse Of The Year...although, I think she is better than that...

18 Jan 2011 10:49 AM
Marigold

Zenyatta is HORSE OF THE DECADE!  Now, about Nicanor... the boy was probably getting restless and they ran him a bit to take the edge off.  Nicanor can run, as can the beautiful Lentenor -- these magnificent brothers are the stuff of dreams.. and Margano is coming!!  But the new foal should arrive first.  Any guesses re what it is??  The silence from Mill Ridge has been deafening!

18 Jan 2011 11:56 AM
Lou in TX

Hey Ragsy....if she has a filly, then she can teach her to dance just like Mom! She'll always be the one and only ZENYATTA! God Bless her and her whole family.

18 Jan 2011 12:00 PM
Penny in TX

Way to go Zenyatta! Such a special horse and beautiful girl. The man in her life will have to be very special also, can't wait to hear who he will be.

18 Jan 2011 12:08 PM
Mike Relva

JCLSON(FAN OF NICANOR)

Well said,thanks.

18 Jan 2011 12:29 PM
rams2050

Way to go, Eclipse Award voters!

You did the right thing!

Zenyatta DESERVED the award for what she and Team Zenyatta have done for racing:  they have made their horse accessible and, in turn, much beloved by horse fans everywhere.  That, in turn, has breathed new life into what many have viewed as a moribund sport.

CONGRATULATIONS!

18 Jan 2011 1:45 PM
sandieh

Thank you much, Greg for the news on Nicky. You know how excited we get!Hope to hear news soon on Lennie and Margano!

Ragsy, I really like the poem that you mentioned, I saw that a few years ago but I don't remember who wrote it. I thought it was Native American.

Ragsy and Lou in Tx (EVERYONE) ISN'T it great about Zenyatta? And yes, she finally got what she surely deserved!

Yippie!!!

18 Jan 2011 6:16 PM
jclsonS(Fan of Nicanor)

Way to go Zenyatta  Horse of the Year.  Now you can retire

18 Jan 2011 6:21 PM
Penny in TX

I had a pleasant surprise when I got home today. I received a thank you card from Heart with several pictures of Dyna King and a little history of Dyna King. It was totally unexpected and such a lovely surprise. We are the ones to say thank you to Heart for taking such good care of him.

Zenyatta well deserved award. She certainly did deserve it and then some.

18 Jan 2011 7:04 PM
Dona

Penny in TX,

I had the same experience today, recieved a card from Heart and it brought tears to my eyes. Dyna King looks so much like Dynaforner and Barbaro, just to think he could have died from starvation  and neglect, kills me. I feel so good knowing that our donations helped Heart give him a chance. I remember Judy or Susan saying he was displaying an attitude now and I loved it, that's our Dynaformer Boy!

I'm going to put my card in a double frame with Dynaformer's picture that I cut out of an old Stallion Register. It just happens to be about the same size. I have another picture of Dynaformer but it's a 8x10 from an article in the bloodhorse magazine. Anyway, it's great to help good people and Heart is as good as they come.

Watched the award cermonies last night and was poised to turn channels if Zenyatta didn't win HOY but she did and I yelled my head off! Congratulations to the Zenyatta Team and congratulations to this year's voters, you finally got it right! You rock GIRLY_GIRL!  (you gotta go to her blog site to decipher that, lol)  

18 Jan 2011 8:52 PM
Mary

I am hopeful that Zenyatta and AP Indy will have their day in the breeding shed in February.  Zenyatta does look like an old-fashioned horse, big and strong boned, with huge hooves. She is a true throw back from the past, sound.

She has only a drop of the fashionable Native Dancer blood,  Her great grand dam is Sharp Queen out of Princequillo.  Princequillo is known for producing sound babies.  

On the day that she was born, God in his heaven, decided to give us mere mortals a taste of perfection. He does this every now and then, particularly in bad times.  

18 Jan 2011 10:18 PM
Kathy

Judy and Heart of Tucson,

Thank you Judy for my Dyna King card. I am so glad that you are taking care of him and that I was able to help him out with my donation.

18 Jan 2011 11:15 PM
Penny in TX.

Dona, I have a keep sake box that has a Barbaro beany baby,  believe bracelet and 2 books on Barbaro that this card will go into.   2011 just keeps getting better and better with Dyna King, Hotstuf, Zenyatta, and of course Judy's son recovering.

19 Jan 2011 12:35 AM
Lou in TX

I also received a thank you card from HEART. It was surely nice of them to send a card. WILL KEEP IT FOREVER. Sorry, I must have accidently touched caps lock key.

I scared my cat right out of the room screamimg with joy last night. I finally found her in my closet.  Poor thing. I was so excited about Zenyatta I couldn't contain myself.  Good thing my neighbors didn't hear me. They would have thought I was in some kind of trouble.  Am soooo happy for Team Z and Zenyatta.  Thought it was so cute when Mrs Moss said she had to call Z to tell her she won. I bet they stopped back by on their way back to CA. Know Z enjoyed their visit Sunday. Bet she got lots of carrots and mints. You all be sure and read Haskins article about visiting her. It is great. You'll love the pictures to.

Greg...can't wait for your new article about our boys.

19 Jan 2011 2:35 AM
Dona

UHO Penny, We're off and running on a I'll show you mine trip! HE, HE

I'll match your Barbaro beany baby with one of my own and counter with the Bryers Barbaro, 1/8 to scale!

Got several believe bracelets left after giving them out as gifts when his time was up.

Got two books, two newsletters from the Derby museum (both framed) and a leather bound album of his Derby win, complete with pictures and DVD. OH, and its autographed by the Jacksons, Mr Matz aand Edgar Prado! One, out of a series of 300 offered by the Kentucky Derby Museum to the public.  Must confess, that treasure was a Birthday gift from my mother's favorite cousin. Yep, we California gals go all out when we fall in love!

Barbaro truly was one of our great loves, huh? Oh, did I mention I went to the local Arc store and bought an antinque glass doored book case to house all of this? HA, match that!    

19 Jan 2011 9:47 AM
Penny in TX

Wow Dona you got me beat by a long shot. I will keep trying to catch up. LOL. We fans do get it bad and we treasure every single item. Yes, Barbaro was and is one of our greatest loves. Look at how many horses he has introduced us to. Its remarkable!

19 Jan 2011 10:50 AM
Mike Relva

LOU

I can't recall the last time a sporting event created as much sadness for me when Zenyatta lost. Was sad more for her and the entire team,cause they are first class all the way. Winning the HOY,like Mike Smith stated made that one loss ok. They truly deserved it.

19 Jan 2011 11:02 AM
Ragsy

Yes Lou

I can just see Zenyatta dancing around the baby foal in sheer delight...I am so glad she is happy...

19 Jan 2011 11:27 AM
Ragsy

Sandieh

I have no idea who wrote the poem, it was grouped together with so many others.  

Horse sense is the only thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people..

W.C. Fields 1890-1946

19 Jan 2011 11:34 AM
Dona

Penny, Your gracious cry of uncle is most welcome. I feel so empowered !

Mike Relva,

Wow, you said it! I too, was so devasted and depressed after she lost and I can't look at the reruns of the race even today. It hurt so much. Not for me but for her and everything that would come afterwards. How history would evaluate her legacy was my concern. She deserved to be considered as one of the greatest even without the award but I wanted it for her, hoping it would silence some critics. The HOY just validates what her team and her fans have always known, she is truly one for the ages. I have spent most of my life living with Native Dancer's loss in the Kentucky Derby due to a horrible trip yet losing by a nose. Even though he is in the top ten best of all time, that loss robbed him of what could have been the greatest record ever: Tripple Crown Winner, unbeaten, and the modern  record for 22 straight victories.  That one loss cost him dearly and I was afraid that the same would  happen to Zenyatta. Happily I don't think that will be the case now. I believe her legacy will grow even more in statue as time goes by. You know it's not just that she has a stellar pedigree, its everything that took place. Not every trainer would have

been as patient as hers proved to be. Maybe Michael Matz with his experience handling Dynaformer progeny but not many others. Her owners, incredibly kind and loving people, sharing her with devoted fans. It's all so fairy tell like but we lived it and know it to be true. That's the Magic that will live on and the Legend that will grow.

19 Jan 2011 12:37 PM
Pauley

Hey every body, I sure like the way you honor that wonderful mare. Felt she was a winner right from the start and made some wise bets in the exacts with her. She is sorely missed on the track.

One thing I've got to say is,  Mary, I think you can brag about Princequillo without the Native Dancer comment and in case you did'nt notice, there's only one generation between the two. So how could she only have a drop of Native Dancer blood but be the proof of Princequillo's prowess. I'm no expert but I can hold my own on pedigrees and I wonder if you have ever heard of Dr Dewey Steele, Professor of Genetics at the University of Kentucky? Dr Dewey says pedigree ancestory must be judged on the 1st and 2nd generation and anything beyond the 3rd generation for all general purposes can be ignored. He has also said that there's no proof that the female tail-line or any other line excercises a hereditary influence greater than would be expected purely by chance. You may not agree with him but I suspect he knows a little more about pedigee ancestors than we do. What I can say for sure is Street Cry has sired some mighty fine runners. Big and strong, known for their closing finish. I think he has more to do with Zenyatta than Princequillo. I don't go deep into the pedigree when I handicap and none of my buddys do either. Can't say I know of anyone that does. Now breeders would probably think differently but I don't think their out there bragging about Princequillo, I suspect they're too busy lining up for Street Cry.

19 Jan 2011 1:54 PM
Kathy

Dona,

Fortunately when your favorite horse loses a race, you only need to look at the initial viewing because the finish is always etched into your memory.

I was fortunate enough to see Zenyatta race in the Lady Secret/Zenyatta Stakes on October 2nd at the Oak Tree Meet at Hollywood Park...switch the names if you like. I had to park closer to the Forum than to the front gate at Hollywood Park. Thousands, 26,000 plus showed up. You literally had strangers walk up to you after the race and say, did she win???? And I suppose you could say they were on a natural high, but for some people, if you had walked up to them and smacked them up side of the head, they would have turned to you and said, oh hi there, I couldn't tell, did she win???? It was so surreal. And for you who've never been to Hollywood Park, if you are at trackside, you really can't see what is happening on the other side of the track, but trackside  gives you a birdseye view of the finish. There Zenyatta was, larger than life, larger than anyone at the track that day. I will never forget her win. And for just a few moments, there was peace in the world...no one was mad at anyone.

19 Jan 2011 2:32 PM
Cheesy

Too funny Pauley, I'm not going to bet against you, I have too much STREET SENSE! Now there's a nice horse. I'd like to see Lady Z hook up with Awesome Again, sire of Ghostzapper, Hotstuffanthensome, Ginger Punch, Round Pond, Daaher, and Dubai Escapade. She needs more early speed and I'm not jumping on A.P. Indy's train just yet. Old Einstein might not be too bad either. I trust the Team and believe they know best. Pauley you can bet on that!      

19 Jan 2011 3:42 PM
Mary

Pauley, disagree.  I will not argue this.  I know what I'm talking about.  Also, 4 generations not 2.  The Mosses' bought Zenyatta because they liked her pedigree, particularly her broodmare sire.  Check it out.  

I promise you the plan is to breed her to AP Indy in February.  Good choice.  AP, great pedigree.

19 Jan 2011 7:34 PM
Mary

Cheesy, what do you mean, she needs more early speed??

Pauley, what do you mean there is only one generation between the two???  Please explain.

19 Jan 2011 10:28 PM
Jan

Mary,

Zenyatta almost walked out of the gate, at times. She's a very large horse and it took a while for her to get into stride. Fleet footed horses were able to get a big jump on her. If her offspring were bred with more early speed, they would be more versatile, i.e. be closer to the pace, obtain a better position during the race and have more options when and where they would be entered. Take Quality Road, although he won at distances over a mile, his betters questioned whether he could go 1 1/4 miles. He possed speed but his endurance was questioned. Distance was never an issue with Zenyatta. Matching Her with a stallion that was smaller in statue and very fast would be ideal. I don't speak for Cheesy but I'm certain that's what he/she they. meant.    

20 Jan 2011 10:57 AM
Mike Relva

JAN

I agree,it makes sense.

20 Jan 2011 12:28 PM
Cal Gal

The searing pain of Barbaro's loss has led us to so many other horses and causes that are worth while.  I often wonder, had he survived, would we be doing the things we are doing now?  Quite possibly, not.  Our "Equine Awareness" has developed in direct proportion to how much we loved and miss Barbaro, IMO.  So many issues: injuries, illness, laminitis research, soundness, neglect and abuse, slaughter, roundups, the list goes on.  Instead of bickering, let's join forces to solve these issues insofar as possible.

20 Jan 2011 1:02 PM
Cheesy

Jan,  a genuine permit to speak for me is in the mail and if you have a lot of money, I'll marry you and make it legal.

Mary,

Like the lady said, more natural speed and one that matures faster than herself. Breeding is more than just what pedigrees on paper show, it's also what the two bring to the table. Zenyatta is a big girl and you don't want to bring her to a large stallion, don't matter what his pedigree is. Got to think of what's the likelyhood. Looking at Lucky is the perfect type of guy you want for the queen. Not too big himself and fast as hell. Now go find one like him with the pedigree too match.

20 Jan 2011 1:11 PM
Cheesy

Jan, sorry, didn't follow up on Quality Road for you. (shhhhh, i.m speaking for you) The old boy proved his nay sayers right by dying on the vine in the classic by not finishing that good at 1 1/4m. Yep, as nice a horse as he was, Quality Road was a better sprinter/miler than a distance getter. Yet, not a true sprinter!  

20 Jan 2011 1:23 PM
sandieh

Thanks Ragsy. Ragsy and Lou, (everyone) I bet when Zen got that call, she did her "little dance". What a heartwarming and funny sight that must have been.

Soon it will be January 29, it is hard to believe that is will be 4 years (at about 10:30 am) since we lost our beloved Barbaro. Our love for Barbaro continues to grow and we have learned much through awareness since his death. It hurts to mention that word but at the same time makes me feel an enormous pride knowing Barbaro"s  history and what I have learned since that first race at Delaware Park in October 2005. Bells ringing, an Angel has his wings. Love you, dearly.  

20 Jan 2011 5:10 PM
sandieh

Greg, that is very touching to see the picture of Dyna King with Barbaro's halter. Please keep us informed on his healing progress (I know you will)And, any news on Hotstuff? Thank you!

20 Jan 2011 5:21 PM
Greg J.

Sandieh,

Loved the photo of Dyna King/Gifted with the Barbaro halter!

As far as Hotstuf, he arrived at Akindale Thoroughbred Rescue this past Monday!  Here is the latest update on Hotstuf, and a link to photos of his arrival(from Akindale's Facebook page).

"HOTSTUF UPDATE: HS had his 1st visit from our vet this morning. He was a happy boy and wasn't bothered at all by the poking, probing and needles. Results back soon but in the interim, Doc was VERY impressed with his easy-going style and very sweet demeanor! He is feeling right at home at ATBR!"

Link:

www.facebook.com/album.php

I will see if I can get an update about Dyna King/Gifted, if so, I will post it tonight :)

20 Jan 2011 7:49 PM
Dona

Tactical Speed! That's the buzz word of the day. Barbaro sure had it. Agree with you Jan/Cheesy or Cheesy/Jan on your analysis of what/who would well serve Zenyatta best. The only other thing to consider is if they want a Tripple Crown participant, someone from the Raise A Native line is almost a must. That's the only slam against A.P. Indy, he's never sired a Derby winner. That and the fact that he's getting old. Maybe the Moss team will choose a younger stallion. Maybe.    

20 Jan 2011 8:19 PM
Dona

Thanks Greg for the Hotstuff update. The pictues are great and he looks like such a sweet guy. Thank goodness he's safe and the future looks great for him. Keep us posted!

Now, would someone tell me why this poor guy had to suffer so much to get where he is today?

20 Jan 2011 8:26 PM
Mary

Dona, AP Indy has sired many great horses, Rags to Riches, Belmont winner, Bernardini Preakness winner.  Come on, he has sired 110 stakes winners.  You just love that Native Dancer line.  The Native Dancer linebreeding has created speedy horses, but the line has also created horses with leg and hoof problems.

Zenyatta is an old fashioned bred horse and all I can say is Jerry Moss liked her broodmare sire and he is one smart guy. Penny Chenery, Secretariat's owner, liked his broodmare sire, Princequillo, probably the greatest endurance runner of all time.

20 Jan 2011 9:56 PM
Mary

Cheesy, the plan is that Zenyatta will have her date with AP Indy in February.  Jerry Moss loves the Princequillo line.  It is a done deal.

20 Jan 2011 9:58 PM
Barbara W

Great news. Thanks so much. One more safe.

20 Jan 2011 10:00 PM
Mary

Cheesy, I really think that Jerry Moss cares more about soundness than speed.  Speed in secondary.

20 Jan 2011 10:09 PM
Greg J.

Mary,

Good morning, I just wanted to mention, it is not a "done deal" as far as AP Indy.  While he is probably the best bet, until it is official, still speculation.

21 Jan 2011 5:25 AM
rams2050

What a pretty boy Hotstuf is!

And so engaged with his surroundings and new friends!

I cannot WAIT until we see photos of Dyna King looking almost as good, and I'm praying that someday we will see them, with the grace of God.

Thank you for the link!

21 Jan 2011 10:24 AM
Ragsy

Next week we may know who Zenyatta will be bred to..would be a great suprise if it isn't AP Indy, can't wait to hear from Mr.MrsMoss on this one.

Mary you are correct on  Mr.Mrs Moss liking the Princequello. pedigree..but perhaps a smaller stallion would be more sensible, but we all know The Moss's love the "bigger horse", so who knows!

Newscientist.com

has a September 2010 article about the Theory Of Relativity being probably wrong, seems things are always changing.

This is an excellent online Scientific Magazine which on many articles require subscription.  

Lou I have the enlargement now!!

Sandieh its very good to see you..

21 Jan 2011 11:32 AM
Pauley

Mary,

There's a difference between putting down what you think and stating something as fact and I suspect you might be a little confused between the two. They are different tho. I sorta took your statement about the percentage of blood/genetic influences as naive because if you count from Zenyatta to Native Dancer he's only one generation further back than Princequillo. The way you put it does not hold water.  

I suspect you're a little biased on Princequillo and that's okay but if you make a statement back it up. Where's the statiscal proof on Native Dancer? I mean science not heresay. The fact is there's a hundred different things that can go wrong with a race horse besides breeding and trainer, feed, track surface, medical care, barn handlind and everything else is just a few. Talking to a trainer or track Doc kinda makes you wonder why someone would be willing to take a chance with such a valuable investment. Even Round Table, the most famous son of Princequillo suffered a quarter crack and was off his training for some time. Gaylord broke down before the Derby, so Princequillo offspring suffered a few missteps too, just like all thoroughbred lines.   Now, we don't know who Zenyatta is going to be bred with and she certainly has a lot of choices. I would not be surprised if they choose A.P. Indy for her and I would not be surprised if they don't. Don't go giving A.P. Indy all the credit for Rags to Riches, Better Than Honor had a lot to do with it judging by Jazil. I haven't seen any evidence that Zenyatta was obtained because of her lineage with Princequillo nor that the Moss operation favors him. Where's your proof to make such a statement. Mr and Mrs Moss have a very versatile line of thoroughbreds and always have. You know they may just choose After Market, he's a full brother to Courageous Cat and they know him very well. Stastically speaking, the Raise A Native line is superior for Derby winners so what that lady said was accurate. The odds for a Zenyatta offspring winning the Derby would be a better bet and I'm all for that. You said Jerry Moss cares more for soundness than speed? Everybody wants soundness but you have to have speed or you won't win many  races. Besides, one of the best stories about Zenyatta and how she got her name is that she was faster than any yearling around the barn. Not the soundest.    

21 Jan 2011 1:50 PM
Pauley

R.I.P. Miesque

Condolences to her family at Lanes End and fans the world over. Her final race was one I'll never forget.

21 Jan 2011 2:30 PM
Cheesy

Mary, you been sneakin too much rum soaked fruit cake? Princequillo was a plater that won 10 races. How's that make him probably the greatest endurance runner of all time? He's not even listed in the top 100. He was by Prince Rose and I suspect that's why people like him but one of the best? You can't say Jerry Moss liked Princequillo or he would have bred to a stallion that's stronger in that line. Jerry Moss bred Set Them Free to Holy Bull and you say he's not interested in speed? He also bred her to Pleasant Tap. Now if you had said Mr Moss likes Ribot, Hail To Reason, Giants Causeway, or Storm Cat, you might have something there cause the record indicates he likes speed over a good sound foundation. Who don't?  Street Cry has a double dose of Nasrullah and Native Dancer, you couldn't ask for more speed. Zenyatta was fast, just not early speed but no mistake about it, she's got that fast as hell Mr Prospector speed in that big frame. Put her with a smaller stallion that can fly and you'll probably out run just about anything. You know Holy Bull is one of Mike Smith's favorites. I think they will put a bunch of names on the wall and let a blind folded Ann Moss throw the dart!    

21 Jan 2011 5:08 PM
sandieh

Greg, thanks again for the update on HotStuf. These fellows seem to have found the love that they so deserve after going through a painful time.I hope they continue to heal and will

be healthy happy horses!

Dona, that is a powerful question that should give a lot of people something to think about, "Why did this poor guy have to suffer so much to get where is today"? By his suffering, more awareness will highlight how so MANY suffer.

Every one that is saved is a blessing.

It would be sweeeeeet....if we could see some pictures of Nicky, Lennie, Margano. Oh my, how nice it would be if the Jacksons could take a "family" picture, with all the Brothers and Mom together!

I watched the video of Heart of Tucson, unbelievable the before and after pictures! What a great job with a lot of Heart!

21 Jan 2011 6:53 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

Here is the latest update on Dyna King/Gifted.  Written this past Wednesday by Judy on HEART of Tucson's Facebook page:

"Gifted got his check up yesterday and all went very well. We are waiting for the report from Dr. Hutchinson, but he sure seemed to be real happy with him so far. I can tell you this so far, he has gained 130 lbs since he got here and his energy is great. He is up walking around most of the day now instead of laying down for the most part. As me and the vet were walking and talking out in the arena, Gifted was walking right behind us staying up with us like he was wanting to hear what the Dr. was saying, lol. I know that he really wanted the carrot I had in my pocket."

 

21 Jan 2011 9:53 PM
Jan

bloodhorse has posted the transcript of Mary Lou Whitney's Award of Merit speech. I hope everyone gets a chance to read it.

She's speaking to us when she said "we are advocates together. One must fight to ensure that there will be another never, ever  horse slaughtered in America".

From your lips to everyone's ears, Mrs Whitney.

21 Jan 2011 10:11 PM
Jan

Thank you Greg.

That's great news. 130 lbs, wow, love it. Bless his heart(pun intended). Can't wait to hear the Doctor's report and know medically how he's progressing. Hope it's as great as his wonderful spirit seems to be doing.

Have a good one!

21 Jan 2011 10:18 PM
Barbara W

Awesome news! Thanks so much.

21 Jan 2011 11:09 PM
Lou in TX

Thanks for the update on Dyna King/Gifted.  It sounds like he's going in the right direction. Hope the Dr's report is a good one. Please let us know when that happens.

Greg..have you dug yourself out of the snow yet? Hopefully so. We're having really cold weather here in Tx but thank goodness no more snow.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

21 Jan 2011 11:13 PM
gammyp6

Great to hear of all of the wonderful progess being made with DynaKing and Hotstuff. The HOY voters finally got it right. And everyone should read/listen to Mary Lou Whitney.

22 Jan 2011 2:02 PM
rams2050

Here is a link to some photos of Barbaro's dam, LeVille Rouge, and her most recent baby.  Not quite sure when they were taken, but it appears as though they were added to the website around 8-31-2010:

www.millridge.com/barbaros-family.aspx

22 Jan 2011 3:02 PM
rams2050

The previous photos must be of her 2009 colt, which I think is Margano.

Here are a bunch of photos of him as a weanling:  gallery.pictopia.com/.../19422

22 Jan 2011 3:07 PM
Mary

Cheesy, Jerry Moss is interested in soundness before speed.  That is why he liked Zenyatta's broodmare sire, Kris S.  You need to do some reading about Princequillo.  You said "speed is more important than a good sound foundation".  You must be joking.  Soundness is everything, speed secondary.

Zenyatta's sire, Kris S. is out of a Princequillo mare, Sharp Queen.  This is why he liked Zenyatta's  broodmare sire.  Also, Penny Chenery liked Secretariat's broodmare sire, Princequillo.

Also, Greg, Jerry Moss said in an interview which is not on the internet, that AP Indy will likely be bred to Zenyatta.  Sorry about the "done deal" comment, but IMO this mating will happen soon.  

22 Jan 2011 3:26 PM
Ragsy

GregJ

Great News!! So glad DynaKing is showing recovery, Bless his heart..

Wonder if Head Hearted Hoof, is kin to Hoof Hearted? seems their names keep comming up in racing..Head Hearted Hoof won his race today...I would like to claim Hoof Hearted if he runs in a claimer...

22 Jan 2011 4:22 PM
PatC

Great News!  Thanks Greg for the update.

22 Jan 2011 5:08 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

Thanks for your latest update on DK. Hope he continues to improve.

22 Jan 2011 8:21 PM
JAJ

Mary,

You wrote to Cheesy:

You said "speed is more important than a good sound foundation".

Where did Cheesy ever say that?

23 Jan 2011 4:22 PM
Cheesy

Mary,

I said speed over soundness. That means Speed on top of a sound foundation.  You go on and on about pedigree and you don't understand fundementals. What breeder in their right mind doesn't want a sound pedegree for their stable. Cite one source that says Jerry Moss likes Princequillo? There's nothing in print or on tape. When David Ingordo talked about seeing Zenyatta, he liked what he saw plus he said and I quote "And they liked her pedigree". That means "everything" and she's out of Street Cry not Princequillo. Princequillo is 5 generations back on her Dam side, what's the matter with you. He has no more genetic influence on Zenyatta than anyone else in her pedigree. Read Hill, Binn or Tammariello, some of the best genecist in the world and  not one of them credits more genetic influence from one side or another from a breeding pair. It's 50/50 passed down the first pairing and then dilutes in percentage with each generation.  That means Zenyatta has what, 6.25% of genetic material from Princequillo. Now she might be graced from a line that possessed the best from Princequillo but then if you listen to Dr Dewey, she has diddle lee squat influence in her genetic material from him because he is so distant from her, pedigree wise.

Now, I might get some figures wrong, mis-spell sumpen but when it comes to genetics and blood percentages, this Certified American Indian carries a card that proves I am Registered by percentage of blood as an American aborigine. A lot of people claim to be Indian but me and my family can prove it.      

23 Jan 2011 5:17 PM
Lou in TX

Are we going to get back on this subject AGAIN? On pedigrees!!! When it's informative that's great but when we start arguing about it, frankly, I'M SICK OF THE ARGUING. Please let's NOT go there again!!

Cheesy, you must not have been on this site when 2 of our bloggers really got into a heated argument about pedigrees, so please don't get this started again.  I understand everyone on this site has the right to express their opinions but when it starts to get nasty, a lot of readers on this site go away.  I don't think Greg appreciates people being mean spirited toward each other either. I'm not speaking for him but have read his posts in the past stating his opinion.  WE ALL NEED TO PLAY NICE!

Thanks for letting me state my opinion.

23 Jan 2011 6:02 PM
sandieh

Greg, 130 pounds? Wow!!! It's great news everyday to hear that Dyna King is improving! I just loved it when Judy said that Dyna King "Gifted" was walking behind them listening! The before and after pictures of the horses at Heart are incredible and sad, the after pictures are like OMG and will bring tears to your eyes.

Thanks again Greg for a wonderful story and please continue to keep us informed.

And thank you Judy and Heart for being there!

Ragsy, good to see you to, I hope that everything is well with you.January 29 will be here soon, it's really hard to believe that it will be four years since losing Barbaro.He may not be here, but his spirit surely is!

23 Jan 2011 7:42 PM
sandieh

Oh, Judy, did you give him that carrot?

23 Jan 2011 7:45 PM
Mary

Jerry Moss said that he liked her broodmare sire.  Cheesy what is the matter with you?  You said "speed over a good foundation" which to me means speed before a good foundation.  Whatever, I'm done. JAJ you stay out of this.

23 Jan 2011 7:56 PM
Mary

Cheesy sorry misunderstood what you were saying.  When you said "speed over conformation" I thought you meant that speed is number 1.

Jerry Moss said that he liked Zenyatta's broodmare sire on HRTV before the 2009 Breeder's Cup Classic.  Look it up.

Princequillo is not 5 generations back in her pedigree.  It is obvious that you have done absolutely no reading about Princequillo.    

23 Jan 2011 8:33 PM
Cheesy

Thanks Lou, I'm beginning to understand what you're saying. She does go on and on and conviently ignores facts. For the record:

1. Princequillo - 100%

2. Sharp Queen  -  1/2

3. Kris S.      -  1/4

4. Vertigineux  -  1/8

5. Zenyatta 1   -  1/16

Zenyatta has  1/16 of direct Princequillo genetic material.

23 Jan 2011 10:35 PM
JAJ

Mary,

Pedigrees are divided into a top and a bottom.  The top is the stallion's pedigree while the bottom is the mare's.

When someone says speed over soundness they mean speed on the top which is the stallion side of the pedigree with soundness coming from the dam, the bottom of the pedigree.

In other words, Cheesy was saying speed from the stallion and soundness from the dam.

Princequillo if four generations back of Zenyatta, but Cheesy was correct--he only contributes 6.25% of the genetic material.  He contributes the same amount as another top stallion, the great Raise a Native.

24 Jan 2011 3:47 AM
Barbara W

Just got my "thank you" card from Judy at Heart this weekend. What a kind thing to do. Love the good updates. We ARE still talking about DK/Gifted, aren't we?

24 Jan 2011 9:47 AM
Ragsy

Hey Lou

Thanks for being a Peacekeeper for you will be Blessed !!

haven't mailed yet...

Sandieh I have one for you if wanted must discuss.

24 Jan 2011 11:24 AM
Greg J.

FYI,

Nicanor had his second published work-out in the last week.

He breezed four furlongs in 48 seconds flat on the Palm Meadows fast dirt track, third quickest of the twenty that worked that distance.  

Could he be getting close to a race?

24 Jan 2011 11:37 AM
Marigold

I'd bet they are pointing him toward something out there -- little tug at the heart that he's designated as a Horse now rather than as a Colt.  Hope he runs another couple of years before they retire him.  I'd miss our Nic so much.

24 Jan 2011 3:05 PM
Penny in TX

Marigold, our boy Nicanor is growing up so fast.  I too miss Nicanor so much!  Its so good to hear about him.

24 Jan 2011 3:47 PM
sandieh

Greg, can't wait, can't wait! (ok, I know I must)! Good news on Nicky,Nicky seemed to like the dirt track just like Big Bro

24 Jan 2011 4:19 PM
Ragsy

Yes,that georgous Nicanor worked out thats 2 x's that I know of..yep he will race soon..what a treat to see this treasure..

Nicanor holds a near and dear place close in my heart..wish we would hear something on Lentenor and that beautiful daddy horse Margano...

I sure hope Dynaformer can hang in there for at least another 5-10 years..

24 Jan 2011 4:37 PM
Chris K

Thanks Greg for the update  on our Nicanor.  It's been so long since we've had any news on our boys that I almost started going through withdrawls.  How's La Ville doing?  God bless everybody at Heart for their dedication to Gifted.  

24 Jan 2011 9:17 PM
Mary

I will say this for the last time, Jerry Moss liked Zenyatta's broodmare sire, that's why he bought her.  He liked the tail side of her pedigree.  Okay, lets move on.  I think that Zenyatta is an old fashioned kind of horse as shown in her pedigree.  Big, strong, sound.  Her pedigree is old, old, old.  

24 Jan 2011 10:04 PM
Mary

JAJ, that is not true when a mare is carrying a colt.  The colt receives more genetic material from his dam.  In Zenyatta's case, it's both from the mare and sire.  But, Jerry Moss liked her broodmare sire.  This is what he said in his HRTV interview before the 2009 breeder's cup classic.  

24 Jan 2011 10:09 PM
rajahsmom

I've been reading this blogs for the past month or so, and I'm strongly disheartened that some would continue to debate the veracity of Heart no matter how much info/imput is given. I as a rational, thinking adult can make the decision for myself, who or who I don't donate MY money too. I don't need a lecture on this. If you choose/choose not to help care for Dyna King/Gifted that's ok, too. But the rest of us do not need or appreciate being hit upside the head for choices we make. By the way, when I first heard the story of Dyna King, I contacted Three Chimneys Farm, and was informed that they had heard of DK's situation and was at that time in contact with Heart about DK. I'm quite sure a multi-million dollar corporation would not have gotten in contact with Heart or put the story on their website if they had any suspicion about their set-up. So if every anyone disagree with another about the decision whether or not to donate or not. that's okay but no one and I mean no one needs to be made to feel as if they can't make the choice to help DK or not. I can't help evry horse in danger but I can sure help this one, and that's exactly what I'm doing in the memory of Barbaro and the honor of Zenyatta. Now as I'm an adult just as all of us are, I hope that everyone of us will respect the others' decision and not belittle or disrespect another for their position on this. What Dk needs is the compassion and love he was obviously not shown in the recent past, but will have in his future as long as he has a healthy/viable future. If that means being put out to pasture and living off the fat of the land, so be it, he's earned it. Horses of all breeds have done more for mankind than we can ever begin to repay, and as long as DK has a chance and the will to live out the rest of his years, I'm going to and I hope others will join me in making sure that this happens for this son of Dynaformer. Now this is my personal opinion, and I don't need any input from anyone who doesn't think as I do. Just as I respect yours, even tho I may disapprove of the tone or condescending/belittling vernacular used in various comments. I want thank all those who have stepped up all made the choice to help DK and HS as well as all the others in need. I'm so thankful that Judy and her team, and others like Heart are there for the horses. Because that's what it's all about, the horse.

26 Jan 2011 4:18 AM
JAJ

Mary,

Neither you nor I know what exact genes or (what switches they turn on or off) are carried on the X and Y chromosome.  You are technically correct to say more genetic material is passed to a female (XX) than a male (XY), but it is very little and it really doesn't matter in this case.  The missing genetic material on the Y chromosome becomes a blank, the ultimate recessive gene.  Only the gene on the X chromosome is expressed in this case.

For this argument, Princequillo passes on 1/16th or 6.25% of the genetic material.  He is no more important genetically than the other 15 horses in Zenyatta's pedigree 4 generations back.

If Jerry Moss said he liked Zenyatta's broodmare sire, take him at his word--he liked Kris S.  It is a stretch to read into that statement that he liked Kris S's dam's sire and to imply that Princequillo had any influence in the decision by Jerry Moss to buy her.

Don't get me wrong, I think Princequillo was a wonderful stallion, but he was one of many wonderful stallions.

26 Jan 2011 7:13 AM
Greg J.

FYI,

Zenyatta will be bred to a son of A.P. Indy, Bernadini.  A good choice IMHO.

26 Jan 2011 1:54 PM
Cheesy

BERNARDINI  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just like some of us thought, they went to a younger stallion and increased the speed factor for her offspring. Spectacular Bid/Fappiano on the dam side says speed, speed and more speed. They should have a marvelous combination of soundness and speed. Good luck to all and can't wait to see whatever it is on the track in 2014. Brilliant move. Sure increased that Bold Ruler percentage for whatever influence  it may provide.

26 Jan 2011 1:56 PM
Pokey

And I quote:

"Cheesy, the plan is that Zenyatta will have her date with AP Indy in February.  Jerry Moss loves the Princequillo line.  It is a done deal."

__Mary 20 Jan 2011 9:58 PM__

26 Jan 2011 2:04 PM
Barbara W

Well said, rajahsmom!

I'm thrilled about Bernardini. He was very friendly to us when we were at Darley. I have some great video of our "meeting".

26 Jan 2011 2:10 PM
Kathy

Good Luck Zenyatta. Let us hope that your soon-to-be, pending bundle of joy is healthy and easy to deliver.

Greg, I am not sure, is Bernardini a tall stallion or average sized? I would think since he is a speed demon, he may not be so big, but I am not sure.

26 Jan 2011 2:43 PM
Greg J.

Kathy,

He stands at about 16.1 hands, about average, I believe.

26 Jan 2011 2:54 PM
Kathy

Thank you Greg,

I am sure that Speedy Bernardini and Ms. Zenyatta Zenyatta will produce a mighty classy fine foal.

(You can see I like to use adjectives like Speedy and Zenyatta.)

And I have come up with a name for the foal and that would be The Great Zendini

26 Jan 2011 3:09 PM
Ragsy

Well, Bernardini is one of the most physically impressive horse's I have ever seen. He is stunning.  

When I see his name I am reminded of the 2006 Preakness where Barbaro shattered his leg..very nice and sad day for Bernardini.  I did not know he had won that race until 2007 in the fall. No, it was not his fault for the accident, but being human I refused to read the paper or watch horseracing.  All I could think about was Barbaro!!!!

26 Jan 2011 3:11 PM
Kathy

Ragsy,

I don't believe I've ever seen the entire Preakness where Barbaro was injured and I probably never will. Bernardini most likely never realized the accolades he probably should have gotten for winning the race. However, had Barbaro not hurt himself, the race may have turned out dramatically differently. I read where Barbaro's Beyer in the Kentucky Derby was 111 and per Beyer was capable of higher. I think the two B's would have been vying for number one had Barbaro not hurt himself. One can only guess the outcome if events had been different.

26 Jan 2011 3:32 PM
Pokey

Unfortunately for Barbaro, that race allowed Bernardini to shine and show his potential. Of course everyone here has visions of Barbaro winning the Preakness, but we will never have that happy ending. But Bernardini came into his own in the Preakness, and became an impressive 3-year-old in his own right. Bernardini will always be in Barbaro's shadow because of that day, but there is no arguing his stallion potential. I know nothing of pedigrees (Learning a lot, thanks Mary and JAJ and Cheesy and whoever else contributed to that discussion), but I trust that Moss and Shirreffs know what they are doing and that it's a good match.

26 Jan 2011 3:35 PM
Mike Relva

MARY

So much for" it's a done deal".

26 Jan 2011 3:54 PM
Penny in TX

I was trying to recall where I had heard the name Bernardini in relation to a race. I knew the name but had forgotten what it had to do with Barbaro until the above posts. I too never watched the 2006 Preakness race again  after Barbaro's injury. Yes Bernardini's win was over shadowed by Barbaro's injury. It has now come full circle. I am so glad that Bernardini is to be Zenyatta's date. How sweet this is.  Does anyone know of a link to picture's of Bernardini?

26 Jan 2011 4:16 PM
JAJ

Kathy,

Bernardini is listed at 16.1 1/2 hh.  If that figure is accurate, he is on the largish side of average.  I doubt he is as tall as he is advertised, though--just a hunch.  Really big horses tend to be advertised as smaller than they are, and small/average horses are advertised as bigger.  Look at Northern Dancer.  He was advertised as something like 15.1 hh, but I bet he was under 15 hands.  I've seen pictures of him being led by a groom and he looked like a little Welsh pony.

I wouldn't call Bernardini a speed ball, which to me refers to sprinters.  He was not a sprinter.  All his winning races were over a mile:  2 at 8f, 1 at 9f, 1 at 9.5f, 2 at 10f, and one second at 10f (Breeders Cup Classic).

His first foals raced last year and I think he was 3rd on the Freshman sire list.

I'm glad they chose a younger stallion.  A P Indy's fertility has decreased, and Zenyatta might be a little difficult to settle (jargon alert--it means get in foal) since she is an older maiden mare.

26 Jan 2011 4:22 PM
Dona

Whew, between our up coming Snow Goose Festival and being on Jury Duty, I wasn't in the middle of that debate but when I started reading it, all I could think of was DEJA VU, ALL OVER AGAIN! I started by saying I thought the Big Girly Girl needed more speed and I think that's exactly what Bernardini brings to the table. Agree with you guys about the Preakness and subsequent Bernardini races, I didn't blame:) him but I still couldn't watch. Can't say I was interested in any racing after Barbaro was injured. That was then and we've all moved on. Never forgetting but just getting on with life. I'm just grateful that they didn't go to Curlin. Now that would have really gotten my goat. Not that Curlin is not a nice horse but Jesse Jackson? Thank our lucky stars, Mr and Mrs Moss are not only nice people but they're smart too!

Pokey, Mike Relva,

Love it!  

26 Jan 2011 4:28 PM
Pokey

Dona, don't hold the owners against the horse, Curlin is stunning (IMO) and would be stunning if no matter who owned him. That is IN MY OPINION. That being said, isn't Curlin on the large side? It could just be my perception, I don't think he's as large as Zenyatta is, but he's built like a brick house and from what I'm reading, that's not a good match for a mare of Zenyatta's size. We want a racehorse, not a Clydesdale! :D I think Curlin should be a good size match for Rachel A. though. I have a soft spot for the Curlin/Street Sense/Hard Spun TC season, and I'm really looking forward to seeing their foals race. Just FYI (you probably all already read it anyway), Hard Spun and Street Sense's foals are being followed on Maiden Watch as of Tuesday, along with English Channel, Invasor, and Corinthian.

26 Jan 2011 4:55 PM
Ragsy

Kathy

Yeah, I just love "what might have been", Bernardini is a georgous horse and Zenny will have a beautiful foal, cant wait for her/his birth..

I never watched the completion of the race after the accident to Barbaro...

what I learned from Bobby was that I have to love all horses and not let people get in the way because life is too short both for horses and some people.

26 Jan 2011 5:20 PM
Ragsy

Penny In Texas

Go to Facebook and type in Bernardini and you will see some awesome pictures of him..he is georgous.

26 Jan 2011 5:24 PM
Jean in Chicago

Penny in TX:  just go to the top of this page and click on Stallion Register.  Type in Bernardini and you'll get a nice photo and some of his stats.  Another good site is www.pedigreequery.com.  Click on the tiny square photo icon by his name at the top of the pedigree.  You can also see a listing of all his named progeny. (Warning! this site can be adictive!)

26 Jan 2011 5:29 PM
Kathy

JAJ,

Just guessing on the speedy part, Wikipedia says that when Bernardini won the Jockey Club Gold Cup, he received a 117 Beyer figure when he won the race. I know that isn't a 125 Beyer figure, but I figure if Bernardini wanted to, he could haul derriere with the best of them.

26 Jan 2011 5:36 PM
Cheesy

DONA --INSTANT WINNER!

Your post said maybe they would go to a younger stallion. Your MAYBE makes you the the "MAYBE CHAMPION". Trophy is in the mail!

Just watched Simon and Todd on TVG interviewing Alan Potter about the Bernardini and Zenyatta pairing. Both Alan and Simon commented about the precocity and speed that Bernardini brings to the match. Per Alan Potter, Bernardini seems to be throwing much more speed than one may have expected and constantly doing it, so far. Simon just gave his Derby list as of today: #5. Tapizar, #4. Wilkinson,  #3. Jaycito, #2. Honor And Serve(Bernardini), #1. Uncle Mo.

Simon's caveat was the distance question for Uncle Mo. TVG replayed Honor And Serves's Remsen Stakes: 3/4 in 1:11 flat and finished the race looking like it was just a Breeze. Honor And Serve worked out 1/23/11 - 4f, 51flat.

He seems to be a serious Derby Horse. Maybe.

26 Jan 2011 6:08 PM
Penny in TX

Jean in Chicago, thanks for the info and links. Bernardini is good looking horse. I guess I am headed for rehab now, a lot of good information on there. Ragsy, I just added another "like" to my face book page. Thank you as well.  Those 2 are going to make a beautiful baby.

26 Jan 2011 7:32 PM
Cyradis4

Hi,

Does anyone know how La Ville Rouge is doing this year? I haven't heard anything since July, and if she's kept the foal, should be getting close to her due date. Did I miss something?

Cheers!

Cyradis4.

26 Jan 2011 7:55 PM
Dona

Pokey, I just commented on Curlin because so many people mentioned Curlin on the Zenyatta site. Curlin and A.P. Indy seemed to be  mentioned the most. I saw Curlin win his maiden and go through the owner/trainer thing. I've posted many times my feelings about Helen Pitts losing Curlin and yes, I know that owners have the right to go with anyone they want but Curlin was different. Nobody wanted him and I mean NOBODY but Helen and her barn spent nearly a year getting him healthy and then when he wins his maiden, Bam! Here comes Mr. Money. Helen Pitts deserved better. For that reason, I wouldn't want any horse I cared for to go to Curlin. As I have said before, Jesse Jackson doesn't deserve the honor of having a horse breed to the likes of Zenyatta. It's not that I was thinking pedegree/size or any thing else. I detest Jesse Jackson and everything about him. Know what gets me? All those people praising Rachel and down grading Zenyatta, go on sites about Zenyatta and ask if someone will please get Jesse Jackson to make Rachel available to her fans and crying that Rachel never got the retirement fan fare, just vanned off. Well, BooHoo. That's Jesse Jackson, the great sportsman everybody was exalting. Was the one year of win at all costs worth what it did to Rachel? Rachel Alexandra's fans were vicious and  disrespectful in dismissing Zenyatta's accomplishments. Well, who got the last laugh? Unfortunately the only one to really suffer was the poor shell of her former self, Rachel.

I'm delighted Mr and Mrs Moss went with Bernardini. Interesting that the announcement was made through the New York Times and not the DRF! Can it be that I'm not the only one that refuses to reward bad behavior? Hummmmm.....

26 Jan 2011 8:00 PM
JAJ

Kathy,

Others could give you a better answer on what a high Beyers figure means, but my understanding it that it basically is an attempt to put all the factors of a race into one number.  Those factors are the actual time of the race, distance, surface, times at the track on that day for other races, and the class of horses in the race.  It is a way of evaluating the class of a horse.

A horse who gets a certain Beyer in a 5, 6 or even 7 furlong race will run much faster than a horse who gets the identical Beyer in a 10 or 12 furlong race.

Does that make it a bit clearer?

26 Jan 2011 8:15 PM
Kathy

Understood...Thanks JAJ.

26 Jan 2011 8:59 PM
Greg J.

Cyradis4,

Hello,  regarding La Ville Rouge and her foal.  Really no news to report, she is due in early Spring :)

26 Jan 2011 9:06 PM
Mary

Dona, I so agree with you.  Poor Rachel.  Jesse Jackson, I don't like him either. Bernardini is a good choice.  It makes me sad though, such a reminder that Bernardini won the Preakness after Barbaro broke down.  

26 Jan 2011 9:14 PM
Mary

JAJ, I think that Bernardini is 1st on the freshman's list.  Like Mike Smith said, there is no stallion good enough for her.  I'm disappointed that they chose Bernardini.

26 Jan 2011 9:32 PM
Mary

Mike Relva, you are right, I was wrong.  So much for a "done deal".  We got AP Indy's son instead.  I am so disappointed. I just don't think Bernardini is his father's son.  Please no one jump on me for expressing my feelings about this match.  I just don't like it.

26 Jan 2011 9:40 PM
JAJ

Mary,

I just checked--Bernardini was 3rd on the Freshman sire list behind Congrats and Bluegrass Cat.

26 Jan 2011 9:50 PM
Pokey

Well Mary, I'm sure that Bernardini being #1 on the freshman sire list figured into the equation. He's done pretty good so far as a sire this year, and True Nicks gives the match an A++. You can feel how you want, that's your right.

Dona, I agree about Jess Jackson to an extent, I don't know the guy but I don't appreciate how they whisked Rachel away when she was actually hitting her stride at age 4. She was never going to mount a challenge in the BCC, that much was apparent after the NO Ladies, but I think with proper prep and conditioning, she would not have embarrassed herself in the Ladies Classic. JJ's mouth wrote checks that Rachel's body couldn't cash, and they laid her off too long and rushed her back into training too fast, and they flopped with her. (JMHO) Then they took her on a ridiculous 4yo campaign and couldn't bring her back to where she was in 2009. (And/or the 4yo fillies caught up with her). And now they've effectively hidden her away with no explanation as to her sudden retirement.

I also understand your feelings about Curlin, and I don't blame you for feeling that way. What JJ wants, JJ gets, and it *seems* anyway, that he will do what he has to to get it, and damn the consequences (read: Rachel).

I have to say, though, if you look at the blogs with an unbiased eye, as I do (I love Rachel and Zenyatta equally, could have made a case for either of them to win HOY last year, and would have been just as happy for Zenyatta to win last year as Rachel, just as I would have been happy for either Zenyatta or Blame this year). The Zenyatta fans are just as rabid and trashed Rachel mercilessly last year, just as bad as, or worse than, Zenyatta was trashed by Rachel fans. I don't understand why racing fans and self-proclaimed horse lovers would run down a horse when it's the connections that make the decisions for the horse. I am disappointed in the Mosses and Shirreffs too, because I think we never came close to realizing Zenyatta's full potential. I think they set the standard for her when she won the BCC last year, and while she had an awesome 2010 - obviously a HOY year - I think she did not meet the expectations that her connections set for her. Is it her fault? Absolutely not - Zenyatta does not care what race she's in or who else is entered - she just runs. Just like it wasn't Rachel's fault where and when she ran, or when she retired. She still gave all she could every race. I love them both. The vitriol leveled at these amazing athletes, who have no control over their own lives, is despicable.

What Rachel and Zenyatta have done, however, is to raise the bar for fillies and mares - I honestly don't think that a female can win HOY now without facing the males. If one comes along, she'd better really dominate her division and do it in stellar fashion, or break Zenyatta's record.

Best of luck to Zenyatta, I hope she gets in foal when she's supposed to and delivers a happy, healthy baby! Bernardini - he will be happy either way!

26 Jan 2011 10:26 PM
Pokey

JAJ -

Mary is probably going by the Bloodhorse story, which says this (emphasis mine):

"Bernardini was the leading freshman sire __by number of graded/group winners and by number of stakes winners.__ He sired a grade I winner in A Z Warrior and Italian group I winner Biondetti."

It's right under the headline on the main page.

26 Jan 2011 10:30 PM
Mary

JAJ, thanks.  I thought he was first.  Now I'm even more disappointed.

26 Jan 2011 10:38 PM
JAJ

Mary,

Don't be disappointed.  Bernardini was quite far down the First-Crop sire list until very late in the year.  Those later maturing 2-year olds "tend" to be more classic-distance inclined than the really early maturing types.

I think Bernardini is #1 in number of stakes winners and number of graded stakes winners, but it is only 4 SW and 4 Graded SW compared to the Congrats (#1 Freshman Sire) who has 3 SW and 3 Graded SW.

Bernardini's first book was absolutely LOADED with quality mares when he stood for $100,000 in Kentucky.  The #1 Freshman sire Congrats (another A P Indy son) stood in Florida for $12,500 his first year but down to $4,500 last year.  Last year Bernardini stood for $60,000.

26 Jan 2011 11:21 PM
Dona

Pokey, your comments about Zenyatta

are misplaced and I take it that you have not read some of the articles lately that detailed her historic journey last year. We fans of Zenyatta were priviledged to a rare treat, an owner and trainer that truly cared about a super horse that over came adversity.

First of all, it is extremely difficult to keep a horse in top form for every race and usually they will succumb to the adversity, i.e. not race to their potentail. Zenyatta was different, partly due to her great heart and competitive spirit and the unbelievable training job by John. We now know, that when she shipped to the Apple Blossom, the fans were all around her and she did not get the usual quiet time both before and after the race. That fact along with being shipped was the reason she needed two months off. Dottie said it took a lot out of Zenyatta, and she diffently had a huge setback due to this. Look at her races after the Apple Blossom, she won but it seemed she had lost a step. That wasn't the case, a lesser horse would not have able to perform like she did but Zenyatta as we all know, is a super horse. John didn't want to enter her in the Pacific Classic because he knew she didn't care for the surface. Again, that lessened his options. Rush her against the boys when he knew she would do whatever was necessary to win was unacceptable. Keep in mind The Breeders Classic was the goal and why exhaust her in a lesser race when she was behind in her training schedule. I was one of her fans that thought something was going on and there were plenty of people that thought so too. We just didn't know the whole story. Now the truth comes out. Her owners and trainer wanted people to be near and experience her presence. It took a lot of class on their part not to give in to the criticism or whine about the unfair insinuations regarding how she was handled. Makes you admire them more after hearing the whole story and certainly explains why other trainers were so lavish in their praise for John. This was never a case of owner and trainer coddling a horse from competition, it was a case of owner and trainer coddling a true champion for her own good and ours too, as it turns out.

27 Jan 2011 12:09 AM
Steve

Any word on the boys?  I have not seen anything in a while.  This I'm sure has already been said, Barbaro and Zenyatta would have been a great match to be bred.

27 Jan 2011 4:13 AM
AngelaFromAbilene
27 Jan 2011 7:54 AM
Deby

Hello everyone.  I just have a few comments regarding Zenyatta/Rachel/Curlin and Jess Jackson.  I know that some people don't like him for whatever your reasons are,  but he did do alot for the sport with Curlin. Just because the guy has money, don't hold that against him.  Please keep in mind that Curlin and Rachel were sold to him by their owners.  That was their choice.  It's Jackson's choice of which trainer he chooses to handle his own horses.  Hal Wiggins said that if Rachel stayed in his barn, he would have raced her against the boys in 2009 also.  I read that in a Bloodhorse article.  He also said the her race in the Woodward Stakes at Saratoga pretty much gutted her. Nobody really knows what was going on regarding her training and her long layoff unless you work for Mr. Jackson.  I too wish Jess Jackson would give us more info regarding Rachel but it's his horse.  Maybe eventually we will hear more regarding her date with Curlin. I love Zenyatta and Rachel equally so not every race fan bashed either horse, so please don't lump me into that category. Rachel deserved HOY in 2009 over Zenyatta. She beat the boys up 3 times at 3 different tracks/states.  Zenyatta did not do that. It's "horse of the year" not "their career".  Zenyatta deserved the honor for 2010 without a doubt.  As for her date with Bernardini, I am not surprised that her date with him will happen next month.  I thought it would be between him and AP Indy. ..I am hoping we hear some good news regarding LVR soon and we get to see the brothers on the track for some exciting racing.  Have a nice day everyone.

27 Jan 2011 10:52 AM
Dona

Esther Marr's Beyond the Blinkers has a story about a Rescue and Retirement facility and every year they ask for a Valentine for the horses and request that everyone enclose a dollar. Sounds like a great idea for the Barbaro's Brothers mob to jump in and do. Everybody can afford a dollar, so what say ye, gang? They could use our help. the address is:

The Horse

Double L Stable Equine Reserve

and Sanituary

9 Tilford Rd

Argyle, N.Y. 12809

27 Jan 2011 1:21 PM
Dona

Deby, you said Zenyatta deserved the HOY in 2010, without a doubt. Am very interested in what you think she did in 2010 that was different than 2009.

FYI-

here's a cutie about the Zenyatta/Bernardini mating..

www.theatlantic.com/.../70304

27 Jan 2011 2:58 PM
Mike Relva

POKEY

Dona is correct and I agree. How difficult as Dona touched on is it to keep a horse SOUND and training in TOP FORM? The answer is it's difficult for an entire three yrs in a row. Zenyatta's  connections are rare in ths sense that they care more about their horse than what a fickle demanding public wants. Their actions are what other owner/trainers should aspire to be. RA's connections are the polar opposite,and they paid for it!

27 Jan 2011 3:28 PM
Deby

Hi Dona. 2010 - Zenyatta v. Blame for HOY honors, she beat him by 26 votes. They each lost 1 race. Zenyatta generated so much excitement for horseracing, California went nuts every time she ran. She attracted more attention to the sport each and every time she hit the track. Zenyatta was up against Rachel in 2009. Different year, different competition.

27 Jan 2011 4:49 PM
Mike Relva

DONA

Agreed,and I'm mailing my card asap.

27 Jan 2011 5:58 PM
Pokey

Dona - I can answer that question for myself. In 2009, Zenyatta ran a reserved campaign and only faced the boys once, on her favored surface. I am not looking for an explanation of why she did that, just stating facts. Rachel Alexandra ran in the Preakness and became the first filly to win in 89 years, after destroying the Kentucky Oaks field 2 weeks earlier. She then set a record in the Mother Goose by winning by 19.25 lengths. Yes, her competition was subpar, but like Zenyatta, she could only race who was entered against her. After that, she took on the colts again in the Haskell, winning for fun. She then faced males in open company and became the first filly to win the Woodward, ever. Trashing the competition in the Woodward does nothing to diminish that accomplishment - she did it when she was THREE. It did her in, probably (but as Deby says above, we don't know the details, only conjecture), but consider even in 2010, Rachel didn't have a bad year - an average year, but hell it was better than a lot of the 4yo colts, and at least she did come back. How she can be excoriated as bad as she has been, when she never finished worse than second since her maiden debut.

In 2009, Rachel raced and won 8 times, undefeated, and beat the boys 3 times, on several different tracks in several different states. Zenyatta raced and won 5 times on California surfaces and beat the boys once. IMO, while I could have accepted Z winning for 2009, the only reason would have been the BCC. Rachel Alexandra DESERVED her HOY. In 2010, there was no horse except Blame with a record to stand against Zenyatta, and again, I could have accepted it either way. If Rachel had returned to form this year, Zenyatta may not have gotten it.

27 Jan 2011 6:14 PM
sandieh

Dona, that's really cute. Bernyatta!Thanks for the news.

27 Jan 2011 6:28 PM
Marigold

Regarding Bernardini, I remember seeing a video where he was compared to a Ferrari or a Lamborghini on the racetrack.  I recall finding that comparison impressive.  Penny Chenery certainly liked the Princequillo in Secretariat's pedigree!

Fascinating!

27 Jan 2011 9:21 PM
Linda/Maryland

Any word on Barbaro's Brothers?

27 Jan 2011 9:36 PM
Dona

Thanks Mike Relva, hope everybody  can send a valentine. I think it's a great way for people to help. I understand they hold a drawing from cards sent and the winner is given a gift certificate at the Tractor Store. If I win, I'll just donate it right back to them. Hope they get a lot of cards.

Sandieh, cute, huh?

27 Jan 2011 10:43 PM
Cheesy

Mike Relva - Dona,

You guys forgot to mention Zenyatta was an older mare! That makes it all the more remarkable.

FYI - the valentine will be in the mail. For real!  Glad to help!

27 Jan 2011 11:02 PM
Cheesy

Put another feather in your cap Dona! You said for a Derby prospect, they'll need more speed and an offspring that would mature earlier than Zenyatta. Just read an article in the bloodhorse and that's exactly what the Zenyatta team said. Bernardsini's babies seem to mature early and be ready to go. The breeding decision was as much a team effort as her racing career and although it was Mr and Mrs Moss's call, you can see everybodys finger print on this historic breeding. Two HOY winners breeding together, Dams on both sides were Broodmare of the Year and Dottie said that fact meant a lot in the decision process on Zenyatta.com. (confess, I read it too) Plus, John's got Zenyattas' half sister in his barn. A filly by Bernardini that might be a keeper! Let's all sit back and relax, got a whole year to wait. Zenardini on the way soon and Margano at the track!

IT'S ALL GOOD.  

27 Jan 2011 11:44 PM
susan

I went over to HEART today to pick up some supplements for one of my fosters and Dyna King was in the arena, walking slowly and munching on carrots.  he has put on lots of weight and loves to look around and check out the view. Even though he is still thin and his feet are obviously ouchy, he looks so much better than when I saw him a couple of weeks ago!  He held his head up high and looked very pleased with himself.  His head is enormous and he looks like his sire - he will be a very handsome guy once he gets his weight back.  It is so thrilling to see how much progress he has made in only one month.  I hope Judy posts some updated photos so you can all see what a difference love and groceries and hoof care makes.

28 Jan 2011 12:14 AM
Greg J.

Susan,

Thank You for the good news on Dyna King/Gifted!

Also, here are a couple of great photos of Dyna King/Gifted that Judy just posted to HEART of Tucson's Facebook page.  He looks GREAT, just six weeks since being saved.  

Link to HEART of Tucson's Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150098561761520&set=o.94549935886

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150098559136520&set=o.94549935886

For those not able to access Facebook:

www.flickr.com/.../5394518443

www.flickr.com/.../5394518367

Thank You Mia for these wonderful photos!

28 Jan 2011 1:34 AM
Penny in TX

Dona, my card and dollar will be in the mail today. Thanks for the info.

28 Jan 2011 9:23 AM
Deby

I've met Shannon that owns the Double L Stable in Argyle.  She is a sweet woman with a huge heart.  My husband used to bring kids from a day treatment program in upstate NY to her farm to help her with the horses and her daily chores.  We will be sending her a Valentine card with a check as well.

28 Jan 2011 11:16 AM
Dona

WHAT A NINNY!

I had typed out a page or more thanking everbody and putting my two cents here and there. Then the unthinkable happened, my fingers ran amuck, and all was lost. Probable wandering eternally in the land of Lost Data. Needless to say, I had some choice words for the dashing digits and should they strike back, misplace characters in a word or two, be kind. Remember, I am a hapless victim.

Greg, thank you for the links. Dyna King/Gifted looks so much better. It's wonderful.

Susan, aren't you the lucky one! Seeing the poor guy in person, witnessing his progress, priceles. Thank you.

Penny in Tx,

I knew Barbaro's fans would respond. So glad that you will follow through, can't thank everybody enough. I'm so grateful that Esther Marr posted the Double L Stable valentine story. It's incredible how a little something from each of us can make such an impact. Together, we truly can make a difference.

Deby, such a small world! You know all about Double L Stable. How cool is that? Liked what you said about Shannon but , knew she must be special for Esther to write that column about her. Thanks for the info.

Cheesy, stay by your computer! I will be posting any time now, the exact date set aside to wait by the mail box for my Trophy. Feather in hand of course! Nothing definite yet, because varium et mutabile semper femina!

28 Jan 2011 2:38 PM
Dona

Speaking of small worlds!

Littlegreatone, a Lael Stable filly by Bernardini - Megahertz(remember her?), is entered on the 29th in a Maiden Special Weight at Tampa Bay Downs. Not sure she'll get a chance, she's #12 paired with Spoof, another Lael filly. I've been waiting for some time to get a glimpse of Littlegreatone,  hope she pans out for them. Haven't had a chance to find out anything about Spoof. Jump in if anyone knows her background.    

28 Jan 2011 3:13 PM
Lou in TX

Greg...thanks for the pictures of Dyna King/Gifted. He is looking more normal every time we get  updated picture of him. Glad he keeps improving.

Susan thanks for taking the time to update us on how he is doing. You know it's true when you get the info from someone who actually sees him in person.

Will be getting my Valentine card next time I'm at the store and will send it with money. Thanks for bring it to our attention. We FOB's now have a chance to help some other horses in need. Barbaro we "get it."  Wish he was here to see how we have been working in his memory to help horses in what ever way we can. It's time for us (FOB's) to put our money where our mouths are once again. Sure makes a person feel so much better inside when you help those in need.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.  And those of you who are still fighting the snow, I hope that you don't get any more any time soon.

28 Jan 2011 4:10 PM
Deby

Hi Dona.  Yes, my husband actually has a picture of himself with Dawn, Seattle Slew's granddaughter that Shannon rescued.  Poor Dawn, I think Shannon had her for 9 years.  At least she had a very loving home with Shannon. I hope Greg can get us some news about the brothers and would love to see Margano entered in a race at Gulfstream soon.  I am sure everyone is anxious to see him on the track.  Have a great weekend everyone!

28 Jan 2011 4:25 PM
sandieh

Greg, thank you sooo much! What a miracle, looks like a different horse! That is really my smile with love for the day!For all the pain and suffering that Gifted has endured, may God Bless him and Heart with good health!

Judy, how is Sean? Best wishes for a complete recovery!

May tomorrow, January 29, 2010 hold special memories of our dear beloved equine angel, Barbaro. My heart just drops to my feet on this day, but with all that has come from Barbaro's loss, it has been far from, Barbaro's spirit lives on, through his Brothers, the awareness, bringing us all together!

Mr Mrs Jackson, you can be extremely proud as being the owners of such a dear horse. We can see Barbaro through his Brothers, each being his own, and his precious mom, La Ville Rouge.My, how we love them!

SUSAN, omg, I am jealous!

28 Jan 2011 4:45 PM
Ragsy

Seems Spoof has not raced that I can find but she is by Ghostzapper by Awesome Again by Deputy Minister out of Summer Wind Dancer, born 2008.  Down right beautiful horses..

no picture that I have found.

The Jackson's have some really nice bloodline horses..

29 Jan 2011 11:12 AM
jclson(Fan of Nicanor

Sandieh,  There is no dought Barbaro is with us.  I see him everytime his brothers run on both of them everytime i see them run i always get a glimpse of or i think i am seeing Barbaro.   There isn't a day goes by i don't get some reminder of him some how either some song, Hrtv something.  

29 Jan 2011 2:31 PM
Chris K

God bless our beloved Barbaro.  Forever in our hearts and prayers.

29 Jan 2011 3:34 PM
Nannie284

It's a sad day.  RIP Barbaro.  You are still sorely missed big boy, and on this sad anniversary of your death I am saying a little prayer for you.  You will always be remembered.

29 Jan 2011 3:47 PM
Penny in TX

Today is a double sad day for me. It is also my Mom's birthday, she passed on July 29th, 2009. I was thinking of her today and Barbaro. My Mom loved horses and I could just imagine her feeding carrots and peppermints to Barbaro. Mom and Barbaro, RIP.

29 Jan 2011 7:34 PM
JAJ

Congratulations Zookeeper on Runflatout's win today in his first start!  You must be very happy!

29 Jan 2011 9:01 PM
Pokey

JAJ - <Like>

30 Jan 2011 2:22 AM
ivy77

Missing Barbaro too much to post yesterday.   I'll never understand how or why that beautiful horse got to me the way that he did.   On a positive note, I'm enjoying the brothers and Gifted/DynaKing.

30 Jan 2011 10:51 AM
Ragsy

JCLSON & Sandieh

You betcha Barbaro is with us and I see him in his beautiful brothers..how sweet it is!!

Its too bad Greatlittleone and Spoof were scratched..

30 Jan 2011 11:18 AM
Mike Relva

RIP BARBARO

30 Jan 2011 11:45 AM
Mike Relva

ZOOKEEPER

Congrats to you and much health and success for your horse.

30 Jan 2011 11:47 AM
Dona

Thanks Ragsy, have Spoof in my Equine Base stable but didn't know what to put down for comments, other than Lael filly. Yes, they do have some classy horses. Both Spoof and Littlegreatone were  scratched.

Penny in Tx,

I'm sorry for your loss, I know how you feel, I lost my mom 2/8/08 and I still hear her laugh in my head. Great sense of humor and loved horses. Yesterday was a quite day, thought of Barbaro and the sense of loss is still so strong. Today was the running of the Holy Bull Stakes and of course it made me miss him all the more. I don't think I'll ever get over the feeling of "what might have been".

In case anybody missed the Holy Bull, Dialed In looks like a monster. I'm happy for Nick Zito, just hope the colt stays healthy. Dialed In, Honor and Serve and Uncle Mo, seem like the ones to watch, so far.

Yes, congrats Zookeeper. Did Zenyatta give you any pointers to pass on to Runflatout? Thank you JAJ for the headsup!

30 Jan 2011 6:40 PM
Barbara W

Penny in TX--you have my condolences. I lost my mom going on 5 years ago, and it doesn't get any easier with time. I think of her always.

Zookeeper (if you're around)--congrats to Runflatout. Way to go!

I'm praying the same spirit bred into  DK's bloodline will help him overcome what he's been put through.

30 Jan 2011 7:48 PM
jclson(fan of nicanor )

ivy77,  He gets to me as well and i can't understand it.   We had horses after him die and they don' t get tome like he does.   It is like he chooses who he wants tobe Believe it or not there are people out there that don't know Barbaro. He really got to me on Saturday.  He was in a dream of mine and i couldn't figure out why i was dreaming ofhim.  But then all day SAturday i thought about him alot.  Then i got on here and then i knew It was the day of his death.  He has a way of getting to us.

31 Jan 2011 11:07 AM
Greg J.

FYI,

Nicanor had his third work-out in the last two weeks.  He went five furlongs in 1:01.00, second quickest of the eleven that worked the distance on the fast dirt track at Palm Meadows training facility.  A race coming up for Nicanor?  Stay tuned...

31 Jan 2011 11:43 AM
Marigold

Good work for Nicanor!

This notice is to inform you that one or more of your horses has worked out.

Nicanor (5-Year-Old Horse)

Your comments for this horse were: Beautiful young brother of Barbaro

Date: January 31, 2011

Track: PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER

Distance: Five Furlongs

Time: 1.01:00 Breezing

Track Condition: Fast

Surface: Dirt

Rank: 2/11 - See the day's workouts

31 Jan 2011 12:03 PM
Penny in TX

Barbaro has gotten to us, kind of under our skin, but the positive is look how many horses we have come to known and help. Plus I have connected with so many people that I would never had. He had a purpose.

Sounds like Nicanor is coming along rather nicely. Are all 3 brothers together in Florida? Does anyone know? I know its wishful thinking, but to have a picture of all 3 together would be priceless.

31 Jan 2011 2:25 PM
Mike Relva

Recall where I was when I found out about Barbaro passing away. Was in a restaurant in the middle of having lunch,didn't finish,couldn't.

31 Jan 2011 6:11 PM
Ragsy

Well, You wonderful Barbaro lovers, We have a blizzard aaacomming so hope its no electric for 6 weeks, last I heard 18".

Sorry GregJ,  I could not last with a 27" snow...

I did see where Madeleine Pickens horse won the Holy Bull seems his name is Dial It...hope she has a triple crown there, just love Cigar..

31 Jan 2011 6:26 PM
Ragsy

Mike

I was at work, 10:30 I looked on the internet to see if there was an update, and there was.  Guess, I cried all day.  Such a sad day, I can't imagine the hurt Mr&Mrs Jackson must have felt.  

31 Jan 2011 8:14 PM
sandieh

Penny in Tx, I have been hoping for a picture of the Brothers together for a long time, it would be priceless! I'm sure a lot of us would be willing to donate to the Jackson's favorite horse rescue group or to Penn Vet. Can you imagine those lucky people working with the Brothers to see all  of them at once?

Mike Relva, I'll always remember that day.Hearing the news while working in the ER, I really struggled to compose myself,it felt like there had been a passing in my own family (I did not work for the next 3 days) Just could not believe that it was true, despite knowing how much Barbaro had suffered. I love Barbaro more now than yesterday.

Ragsy, the longest that we were without electricity during (from) a storm a few years ago was 8 days. I don't mind a little snow but last year was a ridiculous 37 inches!(at one time) That really made it hard for me to get over to see the horses. The roads out in Clifton VA are very narrow and winding.

GREG,3 workouts in 2 weeks? oh, its gotta be, gotta be! My wish is one day to be able to see at least one of the Brothers in person, or to be able to visit beautiful LaVille Rouge, now that would be a vacation!

31 Jan 2011 8:45 PM
Lou in TX

Hey you guys....I have a sneaky feeling Greg knows a secret but just can't tell us yet!!  Nicanor sure is working out alot, it sounds like Nicanor might be getting ready for a race.

01 Feb 2011 1:33 AM
Lou in TX

Hi Penny in TX.  Are you ready for the really cold weather we're about to get?  

All 3 brothers are in Fla. MM sends his horses there for the winter.  Margano is in Fla also. He is at the Stephens facility being trained.  I'm not sure how far apart they are but Nicanor and Lentenor are together at Palm Meadows Training Center.  I think but I'm not sure, that the Stephens facility is located out of Ocala.  That just popped up in my head so that might not be right, about the Stephens being out of Ocala.

It would be great to have a pic of all 3 brothers. It might could happen when they are all back at Fair Hill in PA. That is if the Jacksons follow suit with Margano going to MM. It would be fun to see how much they all look like each other. And of course Mom and Dad. Stay warm this week.

01 Feb 2011 1:55 AM
Mike Relva

SANDIEH/RAGSY

Thanks for sharing your experience.

01 Feb 2011 12:19 PM
Mike Relva

RAGSY

I may have told you but Cigar is my all times fav. I visit him a couple times a yr. @ Kentucky Horse Park,was there last year on his b.day. Will be visiting him soon.

01 Feb 2011 12:24 PM
Ragsy

Hi Sandieh, Lou and all

Guess, we now have 9" and no power outage thank goodness for that. Its snowing really hard and lots of snow drifts.  I sure am tired of being in the house, yesterday I worked outside with a short sleve shirt on.

I agree with you Lou, It would be fabulous to see all 3 brothers in a picture, that would be worth all the presents in the world.

Oh, that sweet Nicanor,Lentenor and Margano...

01 Feb 2011 2:26 PM
Penny in TX

Lou in TX, I am not ready for this cold weather, it is so windy and cold. We've had a little snow, next the ice, but you will probably have it worse than me this time.

I think Greg knows more also, he just loves to make us get a little antsy. We love you Greg! Thanks for all you do!

01 Feb 2011 2:53 PM
Cal Gal

To all who have asked.  Nicanor and Lentenor are together in South Florida.  Margano is in Northern Fla in early training with the Stephens at Stephens Thoroughbreds.  He'll join his older brothers at Fair Hill in Maryland in late April or early May.  Gonna be fun!!!

01 Feb 2011 2:53 PM
Criminal Type

Lou ! Fair Hill is in Maryland! I am pretty sure your right about Ocala being where Margano is. I don't think Margano looks like the other brothers, at least in coloring. He is the brown of Dynaformer rather then the bay Of La Ville Rouge. This leads me to believe that He will be very different then any of his brothers. But, having a photo of all three of them together would be awesome.

I remember where I was when I heard about Barbaro losing his gallant fight for life. I was at my office and someone sent me an instant message..So sorry to hear about Barbaro..I was like, What the hell! and checked the internet, I cried so hard when I saw it was true.I had to leave.I Still cry when I think about him.

He would have been the perfect mate for Zenyatta too. Her nick with Dynaformer is A+. I watched a video of Bernardini, it had a still photo of him crossing the wire at Pimlico and no one in the infield was looking at him. They were all looking at Barbaro. it broke my heart.

Penny, so sorry for your lose. My mother is still with us, but I lost my only child on Thanksgiving 2009. He was 23. Losing someone you love deeply is the hardest thing you will ever do. Grief is the price we pay for love. Thats why so many of us are so emotional about Barbaro, We loved him.

01 Feb 2011 5:20 PM
Barbara W

Penny in Texas and Lou in Texas--

Uncle!! This freezing weather is awful. We Texans aren't used to 10- below chill factors...and neither are our horses. Brrr.

Criminal Type--I prayed for you over Thanksgiving because I remembered your mentioning your loss on an earlier post. No, it never gets easier.

Sorry to be off-topic while waiting for more news on DK and the brothers and LVR.

01 Feb 2011 8:38 PM
Ragsy

Criminal Type

My heart goes out to you in the loss of your son, same thing happened to my sister and it is simply a heart stopping experience.  Such a loss.  

Your brave to watch that video, it is the last thing I will ever do and it was a heart stopper when beautiful Bernardini was announced as Zenny's first date, it made one look back at something unpleasant,and I could see what might have been.  

01 Feb 2011 8:58 PM
Penny in TX

Oh goodness Criminal Type, I am so sorry for your loss. My Mom lived a long good life, but I cannot imagine losing a child. Your child is forever young, like Barbaro.

01 Feb 2011 9:05 PM
Criminal Type

Thank you Penny & Ragsy for your kind words. Your both right, you can't imagine what its like.

Ragsy, I read Rags is getting ready to have her Gallileo foal soon. I'm wondering if she is here at Ashford or if she is in Ireland at Coolmore.

How about the Canadian Turf for Nicanor at the end of the month at Gulfstream ? It's one mile on the grass. Should be the perfect race for him and allow him to get in a few more works. I have to say im concerned by the lack of information about Lentenor. No works, Nothing. Is he injured ? I know that no news is good news, but it has been so long since we heard anything about Lenny, it's driving me crazy. Anything would be better then nothing. Ditto Margano and La Ville Rouge.

I saw this morning that Indian Blessing has had her first foal by Zensational. That kind of took me by surprise. Breed a sprinter to a sprinter and you do not get a foal who can run a classic distance.

To whoever said the Jacksons have a nice bunch of mares, your right, they have some really really nice horses with phenominal pedigree's. Precious Kitten (She should be delivering her Dynaformer foal anytime), Bordighera (George Washington's dam, this daughter of Alysheeba has a  08 by Danehill Dancer and is in foal to Sea The Stars for this year), Megahertz, Pussycat Doll(I think shes in foal to Street Cry), La Ville Rouge, Summer Wind Dance and many others. They have a lot of Dynaformer blood in their stable. Looks like they are fond of Ghostzapper too.

02 Feb 2011 8:22 AM
susan

I wanted to share good news.  Lily, one of HEART's foster horses we are caring for, has been adopted by a wonderful, knowledgeable horseman.  John Lyons put Lily under saddle at a recent horse expo here and she was so impressive and calm and sweet that her new owner fell in love with her.

HEART and another rescue here, Hoofprints of the Heart, have been working on the rescue of 28 starved, neglected Arabs.   The owner surrendered two pathetic starved mares a week ago, and we have been trying hard to get law enforcement to respond to the others, along with other neglected animals there (goats, fowl, dogs, potbellied pig).  You can see photos of these two sweet mares on Hoofprints facebook page.

Pray that law enforcement steps up & does their job here, and rescues the other 28 living in this concentration camp for animals.

02 Feb 2011 9:42 AM
Kathy

Criminal Type, so sorry for your loss. Though, I've lost both of my parents and two of my siblings, I too cannot imagine losing a child. It is like one minute there there and then they are simply not there, except perhaps for the memories.

I read in the ABR that Lentenor is just fine. He simply is taking time off to grow up a bit. I also read on Facebook that he was in training. I don't know how accurate Facebook is, but that is what I've seen and heard.

02 Feb 2011 9:50 AM
Greg J.

Kathy,

I wouldn't always trust what is posted on Facebook ;)

02 Feb 2011 11:04 AM
Greg J.

Susan,

Wonderful news regarding Lily, Thank You!  Praying for the Arabs and other animals to get the help they need, too sad.

02 Feb 2011 11:08 AM
Kathy

Greg, you mean that isn't Lentenor speaking!!! I am aghast. Seriously, I don't believe everything. But since I walk to exercise, I figure Lentenor is at least doing that, maybe even doing the horse equivalent of jogging.  

I can't wait to see both of them racing again. I am sure it is just around the corner, at least for Nicanor.

02 Feb 2011 11:18 AM
Lou in TX

To all...Handyman (who works with the brothers) said both Nicanor and Lentenor were on vacation during the winter. Now Nic might be back in training but like Greg said, you can't always believe what you read on Facebook. Just an FYI.  

02 Feb 2011 11:52 AM
Mike Relva

HELLO GREG

Is Len in training currently?

02 Feb 2011 1:27 PM
Ragsy ( I love Rags To Riches )

Penny In Texas,

Your statement,

"Your child is forever young like Barbaro" brought me to heart wrenching sobbing. Simple and kind thoughts that hit ones psche like a bombshell.. and its ok!! WOW..

Criminal Type

The last time I emailed Coolmore Ireland, Rags To Riches was still there, seems like it was 6 months after the Henrythenavigator colt was born. betcha she is still there.

Alex Brown has a Lentenor facebook page and has a beautiful poem on it that broke me old heart..you guys should go read it...

02 Feb 2011 2:24 PM
Ragsy

Mike

This spring, once the snow ends and its warmer I too will go see Cigar in Kentucky.  I can't wait to see more beautiful horses..

Sometimes I think Barbaro was sent to earth as an Ambassador Angel..don't laugh, now, its just how I feel...

02 Feb 2011 2:44 PM
sandieh

Criminal Type, so sorry to hear about the loss of your son at such a young age. I to, lost a son at the young age of 4. We are like family here, and I feel and share your pain. May you find some comfort in time and write to us anytime. God Bless you.

GREG, (smile) it looks like you may have a new assignment in the springtime when the Brothers get back to Fair Hill.At the risk of sounding selfish, I'll send you a camera. (please don't take me serious, but it is a nice thought)

We are forever grateful to you for all that you do! Seems like all the Brothers will be returning about the time the new "LittleHoofs" will be due.Double excitement!

Ragsy, we are seeing pictures here of the weather in Oklahoma, we have had relatively light snow this year in Va compared to last year, this year mostly ice. The snow with ice makes it hard to get over to see the horses. I know they will be glad to see spring!

02 Feb 2011 5:49 PM
Criminal Type

I live about 90 minutes down I 95 from Fair HIll, and I am determined to go up there this spring to see the brothers. I will be taking the camera with me. Anyone who is in the area that would like to join me, I think it would be great for a bunch of us to go see the brothers, I get weekly updates from Sally at Fair Hill, I bet they will let us come visit. I am pretty sure the Matz horses get back early to mid april. Which is also about the time Margano whould be shipped to Matz's barn and La ville Rouge should have foaled or be quite near foaling the new member of the family.

Sandieh, Thank you and I am so sorry. Anyone who has not been where you and I are, has no idea what it's like. Your whole future is just gone. I was so looking forward to grandchildren. My son was just starting to get what being an adult and all the responsibilities that go with it were about. We were becoming friends, not just parent and child. It is so unfair and I would have gladly gone in his place. The night before he passed away, I had him out shooting oppossums, cause im scared to death of the horse's catching EPM. We laughed so hard at him running across the field after the one that got away. One hand cradling the rifle, one hand hanging onto his pants so they didn't fall off. LoL. Thank god for those memories, they make me sad yes, but they make me smile through the tears.

03 Feb 2011 6:05 AM
Criminal Type

Ragsy, Interesting, The fact that shes still in Ireland leads me to believe she will be bred to another of their Irish stallions, or maybe a stallion outdside of the Coolmore roster. Like perhaps Sea The Stars. If they intended her to foal in the US and be bred to back to an American stallion, she would have been shipped back when she wasn't in such an advanced state of pregnancy. Is her Navigator colt over there with her? I guess he would almost have to be, since she would have been bread to Gallileo when the foal was a month or so old. I'd love to see a picture of him.

03 Feb 2011 6:14 AM
Ragsy

Criminal Type

Rags To Riches was not bred at first heat, they gave her some time off, so, the woman that emailed me stated it would be later in the year that she would meet Gallileo and she talked of other stallions that they were looking at and Sea The Stars was one of them.  

Guess, I will email and get an update.  They sent me the young Henrythenavigator colt picture, and Giant Causeway filly picture. They are georgous...

03 Feb 2011 12:52 PM
sandieh

Criminal Type, thank you for sharing such a sensitive story,the love and memories that we hold dear will help us day to day. God bless you and your family.

03 Feb 2011 5:41 PM
sandieh

Wow, that's exciting, all three Brothers together about the same time that the new foal is due. Sure would make for a super picture.Hint..hint..

03 Feb 2011 5:44 PM
Barbara W

Criminal Type-- we are so sorry for such overwhelming grief. I wish I could relieve you of it for just one day.

Ragsy--We saw Cigar in summer of "09, and he looked GREAT!

03 Feb 2011 9:24 PM
Mike Relva

Planning on flying to AZ and visiting Dyna King this spring.

03 Feb 2011 10:43 PM
Cal Gal

Reports are that Nicanor IS getting ready for a race later this month.  AND Lentenor is vacationing at Stephens Thoroughbreds in Ocala (with Margano?).  Information on ABR from someone who was at Gulfstream talking to an assistant today.

03 Feb 2011 10:54 PM
Lou in TX

Good Morning all

Well I got 6 inches of snow at my house.  Will be soo glad when this weather system movse on out.

Criminal Type, my heart goes out to you and your family. I can't even imagine how much pain you must be in. Please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you. Your FOB's are always here to listen if you need to talk.

WOW! Lentenor back with the Stephens. Maybe he and Margano will get to know each other. Sounds like our boy Nicanor might be racing again soon. YEA!

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

04 Feb 2011 11:59 AM
Cal Gal

My heart goes out to all of you dealing with all the snow and ice this Winter.  We are very fortunate out west -- though it gets cold here, rain (endless rain) seems to be our lot in life.

04 Feb 2011 12:54 PM
Ragsy

Hey Lou

We are getting snow again 4-6" on top of what we have.  ugg...wish I had a snowmobile dang it..-11 in Tulsa last night..

And Lentenor visiting Margano, what a thrill.  

Sandieh

I, too, am sorry for your young 4 year olds death that is so sad..I don't know how hard that must of been..Bless, you and Criminal type...and to think Criminal Type is so close to the action..

04 Feb 2011 2:33 PM
Ragsy

Wendy

Cigar is one of my favorites, and I have never seen him in person I can hardly wait.

04 Feb 2011 2:40 PM
sandieh

Ragsy, I looked outside my window one night (this is in the city) recently and saw a couple going down my hill on ski's. Had to laugh, the weather has just been ridiculous..

Precious Nicky, getting ready for a run, can I hug you?

04 Feb 2011 5:14 PM
sandieh

Ragsy, thank you for you thoughts.This is something that we live with for life,the pain never goes away, eases up from acceptance but does not go away, even after many years.

I heard that Rags to Riches is expecting again, filly or colt? I love both Rags to Riches and Curlin (who looks like a tank of a horse) Smile! But it was really exciting to see her beat Curlin. What a filly!

04 Feb 2011 5:39 PM
Criminal Type

WoW, Lentenor is in Ocala..Interesting.  could speculate all day as to the purpose of that, but it's good to know he's ok and getting to know his little brother.

Sandieh, Rag's Giant's Causeway is a filly and her HenrytheNavigator is a colt, She's in foal to Galileo. Ragsy might know the sex, but I got my info from her anyway.

I heard a rumor that one of the Jacksons mare's is in foal to Hard Spun...I am head over heels crazy about that horse. He ran his ass off every time he stepped on the track, 7 wins and 3 seconds in 13 starts and retired sound. his three seconds were in the KD, BCC and Haskell. I can't wait to see his offspring race. I also think that the Jacksons may have purchased a Hard Spun yearling. I've said since he retired he will be a popular stud, gotta love that heart. The Danzig & Alydar in his ped certainly help.

To all you snow/ice bound folks, If it makes you feel better I have lot's of ice at my farm, on top of 6 inches of snow. It makes for treacherous journies to the barn and back. Expecting more "wintery mix" over the next 24 hours. What Fun ! Makes me wonder why I ever left Ft Lauderdale. Oh yea, I hated the heat...LOL.

04 Feb 2011 6:36 PM
Ragsy

Cal Gal, Lou and Sandieh

It was 15 years ago that we had this much snow, today 5" and this Sunday another one then Mon And Tues another one which is to top these.  burrrr, glad when its over.  I am just glad I have plenty of food..

gads, this world is in one big mess...

Sandieh I could go sledding down my hill top, may give it a try after this next snow Sunday...its certainly deep enough...I love that Rags....

04 Feb 2011 6:37 PM
Airabelle

www.facebook.com/photo.php

Here's a link to a pic of Zenyatta's half sister...interestingly enough by Bernardini.

05 Feb 2011 2:16 AM
Lou in TX

WOW!!  What a beauty she is. She's soo big and only 2.  Wonder if she will get a big as Queen Z? Lucky John gets a half-sister to Queen Z.

05 Feb 2011 12:05 PM
Ragsy

Donna

Spoof is runnining at Gulfstream Park 02-06-11,Race 6  

hope she wins!!!

Eblouissante looks just like the Queen in that picture...wow...how do you say her name?

05 Feb 2011 12:28 PM
Cal Gal

If anyone is interested, many of us on ABR are buzzing about an APIndy colt, a gorgeous chestnut who used to be Munnings running partner, who has FINALLY been named - California - and he's racing for the first time tomorrow at Gulfstream, race #1, pp2.  He's a Todd Pletcher trainee.  Johnny V will be his jockey.

05 Feb 2011 12:52 PM
JAJ

Eblouissante is French for dazzling.  I think it is pronounced ebluisa, with the first letter sounding like a long A because there is an accent aigu over the first letter E.

05 Feb 2011 2:12 PM
MJ

Mill Ridge put out the news on LaVille and her COLT:www.millridge.com/barbaro-guestbook.aspx

05 Feb 2011 5:31 PM
Lou in TX

OH MY GOSH!!!  We finally know it's going to be a colt!  Now what name in the picture will he get? It seems all the rest have been taken. Could someone check and see if a name has been reserved or is it too early? Oh what wonderful news!!! We have another brother to fall in love with.

Thanks MJ for the great news!

Wishing LVR an easy birth and good health to them both.

06 Feb 2011 1:48 AM
Criminal Type

Glad to hear LVR is doing well and carrying another brother. While this is great news and i am glad she is healthy and happy, I was hoping the Jacksons would get their filly. I'm pretty sure the next name in the line is Serano.

06 Feb 2011 10:25 AM
Ragsy

Thanks JAJ...

Lou

Should we be supprised with another colt, wish it could have been a girl...dang it...can't wait to see him and his mama..joy,joy,joy...

06 Feb 2011 11:36 AM
sandieh

"Little Colt", you have a lot of Godparents out here, waiting to see you!Bless you and your Mom with good health.

Cal Gal, I hope I can catch that race with California. If you hear anything, let us know. Ragsy, good luck to Spoof, lets hope for a win!

Criminal Type, I watched Hard Spun run his heart out a few years ago, I would love to watch some of his offspring run. Good choice for the Jacksons.

06 Feb 2011 12:44 PM
Lou in TX

The name Serano has been taken so unless they can combine it with another name, it can't be used again. This is going to get interesting.  The Jackson's might even break the tradition on the names and select a completely different one. Guess this won't be known for a long time yet. But it will give us alot to talk about.

Congrats to the Packers!

07 Feb 2011 12:57 AM
Kathy

Lou in TX,

I think they might have to break with tradition. And as it is possible that this may be the last full brother born, would it be cute if the Jackson's honored Dynaformer with a Dyna name like Dyna-Enforcer or DynaDuke.

07 Feb 2011 8:07 AM
Cal Gal

It may be a while until we know what they are going to name the colt (if it IS a colt).  It took a long time for Margano's name to become known.

07 Feb 2011 9:43 AM
Kathy

Cal Gal,

You will note that on the Mill Ridge Farm site, that Margano is still referred to as La Ville Rouge 09. Even though his name is common knowledge, I don't believe there was ever any announcement that his name is Margano. So I don't think his name technically is official.

As I recall, someonea at ABR spotted Margano's name at the Jockey Club and clued everyone in on it.

07 Feb 2011 10:33 AM
Dona

Feeling Good Here!

Aaron Rogers is from Chico, so Big Time Parties all around town yesterday and last night!!! Normally, this is 49er country but when a local boy wins the Super Bowl and is the Most Valuable Player, lots of high fives going on!

Thanks Ragsy for heads-up on Spoof. Caught the race but don't know what happened. Haven't checked the race results for comments yet. Beaten by 17 lenghts sounds like something wasn't right.

Which reminds me, does anybody know if the Virtual Stable only keeps track of U.S.? The Jacksons have Parting Words and Simbamangu and I can't enter them in my stable. Emailed Equine but haven't had a response. Know Simbamangu is a 2008 colt by Tale of the Cat , out of Chitka - Jade Hunter but that's all I have. Fun to keep track of Lael horses just in case Lentenor is the Stud of choice for the future. Or are they breeding him this year? Just saying.

I think the Jackson team pulled back from the public because of all the bickering going on about who they breed to, when they breed LaVille, etc. People that know nothing about horse going on about what they should and should not do and acting like they have a right to access in all matters concerning Barbaro's family. I have a sneaking feeling somehow things have been ruined for us and that's why we get so little information now. Maybe wrong, cause I'm just a naturally  suspecious person but in this case no news is not a good thing. Huh?

07 Feb 2011 3:29 PM
Ragsy

Virtual Stables track US horses only...dang it...

as far as, "The Jacksons," what people must learn is to leave them alone...if they give, fine, if not, so be it..nothing will take away the love for Barbaro and his brothers and thats no reason to ruin the Jackson's lives...

remember, we have been allowed to follow:  Zenny,Uncle Mo,HotStuff, DynaKing,Dynaformer, Bernardini and so many might fine race horses on facebook...its a blessing!!!

Zenny and Rachel eased the pain of Barbaro for me....

07 Feb 2011 4:45 PM
Dona

Must of had too much Sierra Brew last night, spelling and typing suffering more than usual. I think the word suspecious looks a little suspicious.

07 Feb 2011 4:53 PM
Kathy

We could speculate till we are black and blue, but I sense that the problem may lie in that everytime something happens, be it small or large, the Jacksons may be overwhelmed with well-meaning mail. Can you even imagine how many sympathy cards they received when La Ville Rouge lost her foal last year. It is entirely quite possible that the Jackson's are not setup to handle the fan mail like Zenyatta's team is.

I think I've asked three times since Nicanor was two how tall he is and no one has responded. I've stopped worrying about it. It would be nice data to know, but I'm not going to worry about it ever again.

I have often wondered why on Pedigreequery, some well meaning fan has posted a baby picture of both Nicanor and Margano, but no one has posted a picture of Lentenor. And no one has posted a Barbaro photo to look at. I go out to the pedigree site several times a week to check out stats and occsionally, I go look at Barbaro's stats. It would be nice to see a photo of him when I visit. I just made several requests. Multiply my requests by the thousands that the Jackson's receive and I know I would be overwhelmed by the numbers they have to deal with.

I could totally be wrong here, but Nicanor and Lentenor wintering in Ocala, Florida perhaps could mean spa treatments and massages, but I believe that since Nicanor's workouts look pretty consistent with his stats before December that he wasn't dining on a cheese ball and crackers throughout December.

No, I think Nicanor and Lentenor on vacation in Ocala simply tells us that their connections know what is good for them and whatever training they are doing, they are enjoying every minute of it.

07 Feb 2011 5:17 PM
sandieh

Lou in Tx, how about combining it with one of the names that already exists, such as SerBarbaro, etc. Ok, FOB's lets get creative here! Namimg one of the offspring as a Dyna-Colt  (or filly) would be an honor to Dynaformer, or "PapaFormer".And for  La Ville Rouge, she certainly has produced some of the most loved colts running!

07 Feb 2011 5:52 PM
Greg J.

Kathy,

Margano's name was made official by the Jackson's.  It was mentioned here on this blog back in the May 13, 2010 entry.  "Roy and Gretchen Jackson, who bred and raced Barbaro and all the brothers, did not deviate from their name plan when it came to the 2009 foal, naming him MARGANO. That is one of the names of six foxhounds in a painting owned by the Jacksons. The previous three foals also had names of the foxhounds, leaving only Sereno and Calypso as future possible names to be selected."  

07 Feb 2011 8:33 PM
Kathy

Greg,

Thanks for clarifying the column of May 13, 2010. It is interesting that the Mill Ridge Farm pictures of Margano were not updated to reflect this announcement. Maybe, that was an oversight.

07 Feb 2011 9:26 PM
Criminal Type

I checked Pedigreequerry and there is no Serano. I dont know how to check with the JC. Could it be the name is reserved? I know that the Jockey Club puts out a list of names that are eligible every year.

Horses that were champions names are retired, so to speak, and no one can name another horse that name, like Secretariat, no one can ever use it again.

Nicanor is a perfect example of a horse name thats not specific to him alone. There is another Nicanor who neighs with a funny french accent and is nowhere near as handsome as our Nicanor.

Greg, perhaps you can tell us if the Jockey Club does indeed have a horse already registered as Serano, or if it is only reserved.

08 Feb 2011 12:20 PM
Lou in TX

Kathy...Mill Ridge doesn't update their photos for a very long time. It seems like it took forever just to see the pics of Margano. They are very busy there at the farm and don't have time to update often. We are lucky we got the message about LVR on the Guestbook. I don't visit that site very often because of the lack of information. You will get it from Greg before getting anything from them. Just an FYI.

Getting ready for another really bad cold spell. Tx is really getting it this year. Not use to that kind of weather. Especially the snow.

Hope everyone has a great week. Greg, don't overdue, your family needs you right now.

Saw where Nicanor worked agaian today.  Good news for us.

08 Feb 2011 12:26 PM
Cal Gal

Mill ridge Farm site is rather "casual" about their updates -- they probably don't have anyone overseeing their website regularly.  Too much else to do.  Margano was Babynor for so long that it almost seems wrong to pass that name along to another foal -- but Babynor he/she will be until further "official" notice.  In the meantime, check this out!

Virtual Stable®

This notice is to inform you that one or more of your horses has worked out.

Nicanor (5-Year-Old Horse)

Your comments for this horse were: Beautiful young brother of Barbaro

Date: February 8, 2011

Track: PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER

Distance: Six Furlongs

Time: 1.14:20 Breezing

Track Condition: Fast

Surface: Dirt

Rank: 1/1 - See the day's workouts

I believe they are getting him ready for a Stakes race!

08 Feb 2011 12:53 PM
Kathy

Lou in Tx

Thank you Lou in Tx, I do know that I can get the straight scoop from Greg.

08 Feb 2011 1:42 PM
Jean in Chicago

Criminal Type:

Go to www.jockeyclub.com  then click on 'about the registry'.  From this page you can go to the jockey club's online name book.  The only problem is that it seems to take a long time for names to show up in the listing.  I guess this isn't suprising since registering a horse seems extremely complicated.  So far 'Serano' has no direct matches.  I don't know how many years have to elapse before a name can become available for 'reuse'.

08 Feb 2011 2:08 PM
Jean in Chicago

Sorry, I misspelled the name.  'Sereno' was taken as of 2007.

08 Feb 2011 2:14 PM
Kathy

Criminal Type

I believe that the name is Sereno. And that one is taken at the Jockey Club.

08 Feb 2011 2:33 PM
Cal Gal

I'll refer to the new foal as BabynorII and it might be a year and a half after he/she arrives before we get a name for him/her -- that post on Mill Ridges guestbook may have been a fan just checking to see if we'd notice and get excited -- or maybe one who was tired of all the questions.  We won't really know until his or her arrival -- assuming we are notified that that has happened (the arrival).

08 Feb 2011 2:41 PM
Cheesy

Not sure what's going on with Nicanor, 6f, @ 1.14:20 is not very fast even for a Breezing. I'm a little confused by the workout but I know the trainer knows what he's doing. I was expecting maybe a 1.11 - 1.12 handily after his other workouts. Rank 1/1 means nothing since he was the only one going at that distance. Guess we'll just have to wait untill his next outing to see if Mr Matz will tip his hand. Since Lentenor was so lightly raced, I don't know what to make of him. When Showing Up retired, they made a point of saying they were not in the Stallion business. That leaves me to conclude that Lentenor is not being bred at this moment. The Stephens facility is both a Breeding and Training Operation. The training is also for older horses that have issues, not just breaking yearlings. Nice setup.  

08 Feb 2011 3:10 PM
Lou in TX

Greg.....just a suggestion but I think you need to give us the web site for the picture of the hounds so everyone can refresh on the names. If my memory serves me right, all the names left had been taken.  What do you think the Jackson's might do?  We need your opinion here.

08 Feb 2011 11:37 PM
Cal Gal

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Lentenor wasn't there to be analyzed/evaluated and have any issues that he might have dealt with.  I wondered if that might not be going on.  He is too talented not to try to get to the bottom of things IMHO.

09 Feb 2011 12:44 AM
JAJ

Cheesy,

Rest assured, if Lentenor were retired to stud, you would have heard about it by now.

Training center tracks tend to be deeper and slower than the actual racing surfaces.  A slower track tends to be a safer track.

Nicanor would have been breezing by himself and it is harder to motivate a horse to go 6f alone and quickly.

Not many trainers drill their horses 6f in under 1:12.  Matz has never been one to ask for blazing fast works.  Even if he was that kind of a trainer, it seems very early in Nicanor's training after a layoff to be drilling him.  That's how you get them hurt--ask them for too much speed before they are fit enough to not get tired at the end of it.

That said, we really have no idea how close to a race Nicanor is.  Matz might have been 2-minute licking him for weeks before his first published breeze.  A horse who gallops a mile and a half in 2 1/2 minutes easily is a pretty fit horse, even if he hasn't a recent published work.

Don't get to hung up on the "breezing" or "handily" designation--it is only the opinion of the clocker.

09 Feb 2011 3:43 AM
Kathy

Heart of Tucson's has an update on Dyna King. They will be heaving a news crew out there this week. Greg can update you with the link.

09 Feb 2011 5:44 AM
ekdeutsch

Before everyone spends too much time speculating on why Lentenor is in Ocala, you may want to read the article linked below.

www.chronofhorse.com/.../down-time-sport-horse

Most likely, Lentenor is on vacation. Everybody needs one, and Len could certainly use one after a year of learning how to be a racehorse.

The last line of the article says it all: "...the horses come back from their rest breaks brighter, sharper and fresher and ready to go back to work".

I'm sure that we all would like see a sharper and fresher Lentenor on the track in 2011.

09 Feb 2011 1:03 PM
Deby

Cheesy, Showing Up is standing at Adena Springs in Ontario, he is not owned by the Jackson's anymore?

09 Feb 2011 1:40 PM
Cheesy

JAJ _

I made the comment about breeding Lentenor because Dona was musing about his absence. Since the Jackson Stable is not in the Stallion business it is entirely possible that they could/would bred him and not make a public statment about retiring him.

Breezing and handily are very important descriptions of how a horse works both to the trainer, and the racing world at large. Where you get off saying it's just the opinion of the clocker is nuts. Clockers are very good at their job and certainly know how much effort a horse is putting out and track reporters will question a trainer if somethings seems askew. It is a universal description that describes the effort being excerted by the horse. For your information 7f workouts are very common. Todd Pletcher worked a coule of horses yesterday at 7f and Bob Baffert worked two today. A.Z. Warrior at Santa Anita worked 7f 1:13:4/5, and in the first public workout since racing December 26th, 2009, The Factor worked at Hollywood Park in 1.11.80. At Gulfstream Park, Actin Happy worked 1:13 2/5.

Is it all the time, no. It is very common.

FYI - several people have said they thought Nicanor was ready for something soon based on his workouts. In that context, I said my little speech about the workout times. I've been around the track more years than I care to say and there's nothing you can teach me about horses or racing, thank you.

Deby -

I'm not sure if the the Jackson's kept an interest in Showing Up or not. I just remember they were shopping around for a facility  or something for his future and like I said, they were very clear in stating that they were not in the Stallion breeding business. That operation on a commercial level is very expensive, so it's easy to understand why they would say what they did. I never heard any details about the deal with Adena Springs. Did they sell him outright? Were there shares? was he leased? Don't know.

Anybody have an In with someone at Adena Springs?

09 Feb 2011 9:52 PM
Greg J.

A few thoughts,

JAJ, spot on with your comment regarding Nicanor and his works(including the "breezing" and "handily" remark), thanks.

To question a time in a 6 furlong work is pointless without knowing the instructions given to the rider and not knowing what Mr. Matz was looking for.

Elaine, a simple thank you and hope to see you at the track very soon!

Lentenor is not retired or being bred, enough on that.

Showing Up is owned by both Adena Springs and The Jackson's(Lael).

Lou,

Here is a link to the lithograph, scroll down and click on photos to enlarge.  

www.grosvenorprints.com/stock.php

My thoughts on what the name might be for La Ville Rouge's unborn colt?  After La Ville Rouge lost her filly last year, I think first and foremost is a healthy birth for both, once that happens, then we can all speculate on a name.  I will say, I am sure the name has already been reserved by the Jackson's.

09 Feb 2011 10:40 PM
Greg J.

FYI,

Judy posted this update on Dyna King/Gifted on HEART of Tucson's Facebook page this evening:

"I would like to let everyone know that we had the best day here ever. Gifted/Dyna King had his chiropractic care today with Dr. Lynie Stone. She came to see him last night because his shoulder was really stiff, so she worked on him for about an hour, then came back out today for him and started working on him again. He walked out today for her like there was no problem, lol. Then he walked out to his favorite area, and she worked on his back and hips today. Well in the middle of his treatment he walked off, and then rolled, and then.............took off at a canter bucking!!!!!!!!! OMG this is the first time he has ever done that, lol. We all screamed with joy and amazement, I kept yelling where are the cameras!!! We missed the picture and video we have been waiting for over two months to get, but I will be ready for that one next time for sure."

What great news!  Thank Judy :)

Link:

www.facebook.com/group.php

09 Feb 2011 11:48 PM
JAJ

Cheesy,

The handily/breezing designation is an opinion.  That's all it is, an opinion by the clockers.  To suggest it is a "universal" description is naive.  Clockers are not always accurate.

At some tracks and training centers almost all works are labeled breezing, while at others the designation of breezing is very rare.  The designation means little to the trainer, who watched the work and talked to the rider.  The trainer and the rider are the people who have the most insight into how the breeze went.  The horse adds his/her two cents over the next  24 to 48 hours by how much water it drank, how it cooled out in general, how much it ate that night and whether or not there was an injury.  Clockers' opinions mean little to a trainer other than as a back up for the trainer's own stop watch.

Sometimes clockers are motivated by things other than their stop watch and what they see.  Very fast breezes are sometimes hidden from the betting public (or maybe claiming trainers).

I stand by my comments that a 6f breeze in under 1:12 is very rare especially for Matz.  Other trainers such as Baffert drill their charges, but I don't remember Matz ever breezing the brothers in less than 12-second eighths in any breeze 4f or longer.

It is a rare horse who will breeze 6f on their own that fast (1:12 or less).  Most will need company to motivate them.

10 Feb 2011 5:34 AM
Cheesy

JAJ  -

Since you know so much, I'm sure you know that on 2/8/11, 15 horses worked 6f at Hollywood Park. American Story #1 @ 1:11.80 HG and Misremembered was #15 @ 1:15.60 H. All 15 were either HG or H.

No Mistress worked at Hollywood Park 2/10/11 going 6f @ 1:16.20 H.

Palm Meadows Training Center, Gold Necessities went 6f @ 1:14.85 B.

Fair Grounds - 18 horses went 6f.

#1 Sway Away 1:11.80 HG, #18 Coloursoftheglen 1:16 H.  Four horses went HG and 14 were H.

Golden Gate - 8 horses went 6f on 2/9/11. Dream Netti 1:15.60 HG.

Yea, I guess it's pretty rare.  

10 Feb 2011 1:10 PM
JAJ

Come on, Cheesy, read what I wrote.  I said it was rare for a horse to breeze 6f in 1:12 or less.

I didn't say a 6f breeze was rare, only doing it in LESS THAN 1:12 WAS PRETTY RARE.

The work times you provided just proved my point, too.  There were very few 6f breezes in 1:12 or less.

You've proven my other point as well, that the there is often no rhyme nor reason to what is designated as breezing or handily by the clockers.

On your date of 02/08/11 at Hollywood Park every single published work was listed as handily.  Now, don't even try to tell me that every horse deserved that handily designation!

I couldn't find the works for the other horses you listed at Fair Grounds, etc., because the dates you gave didn't match up with the published works.

It is a lot easier to get sub 12-second eighths in breezes 4f and less.  A 5f breeze in less than a minute is a lot harder to get from a horse; but believe me, a sub 1:12 6f breeze is really, really hard to get, even for the top horses.

And, who wants a sub 1:12 in the morning?  You risk leaving your race on the track in the morning.

Six furlong breezes and longer are often set up and carefully orchestrated for the horse.  The horse will start the breeze with one workmate and finish with a second (or third if it is a really long breeze).  The fresh horse will join them well into the breeze and engage the horse keeping him/her on task.

I think  John Shirreffs put a few of Zenyatta's breezes on YouTube, showing Zenyatta running down one horse who started ahead of her and then running down a second fresh horse who joined them on the turn.  It takes a lot of skill by the exercise riders to set up that kind of a breeze.

Five furlongs seems to be the point where you start to get an idea of how good your horse is.  Lots of horses can breeze well at 4f or less, but can't seem to get any further.  Once they are breezing 5f, you start to get a better idea of how good they are.  

10 Feb 2011 4:01 PM
Barbara W

Wow! What great news about DK. Thank you, Greg and Judy! Can't wait for the videos!

10 Feb 2011 6:17 PM
Penny in TX

Greg great news about Dyna King. It is so good to hear about how well he is doing. He must know he is so loved from all the special treatment he gets. Thanks for the update.

10 Feb 2011 8:25 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

Thanks for the latest info on Dyna King. Talked with Judy last week.

10 Feb 2011 9:12 PM
Lou in TX

Greg.....thanks for posting the web site for the hounds. Now we can all refresh their names. Seems like all names have been taken.

I to, want LVR to have a healthy colt (?) and easy birth. We all love her soo much. She is part of our family. As is Dynaformer, that handsome devil!

So glad that Dyna King /Gifted is doing so well. Can't wait to see another video of him. He has those soft eyes like our boys.

Thanks again for your help.

10 Feb 2011 11:42 PM
Becky

I'm so happy that the entire family is healthy and well.  So excited to see the new member when it gets here.  My best friends mare is due to foal around the same time so I'll have a little one to send all my love thru to the new member.  

I was just "surfing" the net as I have been to known to do at times and came across a woman who makes jewlrey and has a line that has Barbaro's likeness on it with proceeds going to the hospital that did so much for the big man.  

www.horse-jewelry.com/index.asp

11 Feb 2011 12:50 PM
Lise from Maine

Hi!

Has anyone contacted Mr. and Mrs. Jackson (Barbaro's owners) to see if they will do anything for DynaKing?

Thank you!

11 Feb 2011 2:14 PM
Jan

In handicapping this week-end, I saw that Harmonious worked a bullet 6f in 1:10 4/5 on 1/28/11 at Santa Anita. The Dynaformer filly will be running in the La Canada Stakes. As most will recall, she is trained by John Shirriffs. Good luck to all, I really like her.

Point is JAJ, 6f drills are done all the time and yes even sub 1:12.

I don't care to get into this with you but neither is it okay for a statement that rings un-true stand. You have the right to think it's rare but when you spin it here, someone needs to set the record straight.

11 Feb 2011 5:10 PM
Criminal Type

One would think, that the Jacksons, planning the Dynaformer/La Ville Rouge family, had the foresight to reserve all the names in the painting for the future offspring, If in fact the JC allows this. I am assuming they do, given Greg's comments to that effect.

11 Feb 2011 5:33 PM
JAJ

Jan,

I never ever EVER said 6f breezes are particularly rare.

I suggested sub 1:12 breezes are.  Not unheard of, but not very common.

Tell me how many breezes the brothers have ever done that were at least 5f that were sub 12 second panels?  None, I believe.  For Cheesy to expect Matz to suddenly send out Nicanor for a 1:11 and change breeze just didn't make sense.

That was my point.

To back up my assertion that 6f breezes at UNDER 1:12 are rare, here are the results from a few tracks and training centers today:

Today at Palm Meadows, 89 breezes, not one longer than 5f.

Today at Fairgrounds:  67 breezes only one at 6f (1:13.40).

Gulfstream:  33 breezes, one at 6f (1:14.20).

Today at Santa Anita there was 18 breezes at 6f compared to 45 at 5f and 123 total.  (17 at 3f, 14 at 4f and 45 at 5f, 18 at 6f, and 2 at 8f).  On a lightening fast surface--one the maintenance crews have been desperately trying to slow down--only one of those 18 workers at 6f was a sub 1:12 (1:11.80).

Sub 1:12 breezes are just not very common.

A completely separate issue is the general accuracy of the published breezes.  I've seen some pretty fast breezes posted that aren't always accurate.  I know this because it involved my own horses.  Once, one of my horses had a published work in a bullet of 44 and change.  I know he went quick, but I can assure you he didn't go that quick.  We had him in 47 and change.  Big difference, but still an official breeze.  It happens a lot.  I am amazed the clockers are as accurate as they are considering how much traffic there is in the morning at a big track.

Most on this blog don't have a lot of experience with racehorses and what goes on in the morning.  I try to give people a feel for what might be going on behind the scenes with these horses in training.

11 Feb 2011 8:27 PM
JAJ

Criminal Type,

You can reserve a name for one year for a $75 fee.

11 Feb 2011 8:31 PM
Voyager

Santa Anita was not lighting fast yesterday, it is not a problem that the maintenance crew is trying to correct. It is a fast track, has always been a fast track and therefore draws fast horses.

A Golden Jet worked 4f in 34.20.

M One Riffle worked 5f 57.60

These are seriously fast horses.

I was at Clockers Corner having breakfast yesterday. I saw and heard nothing out of the ordinary and I will say this: Clockers are very professional and as accurate as possible. There are many types of clockers but the ones that hand in workout sheets to the Racing Secretary, are experts at their craft.

As for sub 6f workouts, maybe it depends on where your at and which track you're talking about.

Perhaps it is rare back East, it

is not rare in California. It happens everyday, at every major track and when something happens everyday, it is not a rarity. Uncommon, not the norm, whatever, but it is not rare.

Anyone wishing to learn more about Clockers, there is a video on the bloodhorse site that gives some insight into the Clockers world. Also, TVG has a show called "The Works" that usually runs around Derby and Breeders Cup time. The show consists of both Analysts and Trainers providing an insightful description of what is occurring during the entire process. I first caught this show before Barbaro's Derby and thought Tom Amoss's assessment of Barbaro was spot on. If you recall, the racing writers weren't that keen on Barbaro due to his style of running. The criticism was in his front leg action, most thought it was too high and therefore the pounding would take a toll on his performance. They were wrong and  if you had heard Mr Amoss's analysis, you would have understood why they were wrong and also why he correctly picked Barbaro to win.  

12 Feb 2011 11:04 AM
Criminal Type

JAJ, Thanks for the information. Im assuming you can renew the name reservation on a yearly basis. Is this correct ? If so, I doubt if the Jacksons would find this too much of a challange financially, if they want the names reserved for future siblings.

12 Feb 2011 1:17 PM
Criminal Type

Voyager, I recall Bob Baffert saying on the way from the paddock to his box at Churchill Downs for the 2006 Derby, that the if appearences meant anything, the race was already over and Barbaro was the winner. He stated that horse is a man while the rest are just boys.

12 Feb 2011 1:20 PM
Criminal Type

Voyager, Want a horse with a peculiar "action" watch video's of The Pamplemousse. Partcularly the OBS sale work. Just type in Pamplemousse OBS...WOW.

12 Feb 2011 1:24 PM
JAJ

Voyager,

Maybe your definition of rare differs from mine.  In the last three days at Santa Anita, out of 437 breezes on the dirt, only 4 were sub 1:12 6f breezes--less than 1% of breezes.  That makes it rare in my books.

To further illustrate my point, looking at the same three days at Santa Anita, there were 63 6f breezes on the dirt.  Of those 63 breezes, only 4 were 1:12 or better.  That's 6.3% of 6f breezes.

For comparison on the same three days there were 151 4f breezes on the dirt.  Of those, 43 were 48:00 or better.  That's 28.4%.

In my original post, I was trying to make two points.

First, sub 1:12 6f breezes were not common, and second, Matz was not known to breeze that fast.

Lots and lots of horses easily breeze sub 12 second eighths at 4f or less, but once you start to ask for that sustained speed over 5 and 6 furlongs, there just aren't that many horses or trainers who ask for that kind of breeze.

12 Feb 2011 3:57 PM
Voyager

Criminal Type, funny you should mention the Pampelmousse when another well touted colt, Boys at Tosconova is off the Derby trail, officially, as of today. I'm not really sure how good he is but I know the Pampelmousse was a very serious horse. You're exactly right, the Pampelmousse's leg action would make you do a double take, like did I just see what i thought I saw. I watched his workouts many times, and like Barbaro, his leg action was even more pronounced during his workouts. Too bad he had that tendon problem, I liked his chances in the Derby. Same for I Want Revenge.

I'm home recovering from a lossing battle with a Scampi dinner. Too bad I wasn't at the Pampelmousse Grille, in Solana Beach. Now there's a winner for you.

12 Feb 2011 5:24 PM
diastu

Hey Relva! A reminder that "spring" in AZ was yesterday and summer starts in about 5 minutes. :-) Plan on March or early April and I'll drive down from Phoenix to meet you and visit DynaKing with you.

Diana Stuart in Tempe

13 Feb 2011 3:33 PM
Dona

JAJ -

On 2/13, 11 horses worked 6f @ Santa Anita. 5 worked sub 1:12

 Kensel        1:11.00

A Plus Topper   1:11.40

Kuro            1:11.40

Off The Wall    1:11.60

Silver Swallow  1:11.60  

6F @ sub 1:12 is a common occurance. 5 out of 11 is not rare in anybodys book. 1 out of 8, is not rare, 1 out of 11, is not rare. Rare means RARE.

You lumped all workouts together and then used the 6f workout times as your measurement. You cannot do that. 3f, 4f, 5f have nothing to do with how many or the times worked for 6f.  They are totally different, have different purposes. If it was 437 working 6f and 1% were sub 1:12 maybe your argument had merit.  You were misleading with your facts. As some have said here, it happens everyday. Why care? Because you do set yourself up to be the source for as you say, beginners. All the more reason why you should be careful what you say or be more contrite when you are mistaken.

While I'm at it, I have to say when you were describing Zenyatta's workouts you were implying that it was because its hard to get a 6f workout? Zenyatta used a work mate because she is a closer, period. Mike Smith/John Sherriffs, talking about the workouts said it was to give her something to run at. SHE WAS A CLOSER! Mr Moss joked about the stable mates she used up. Had nothing to do with the distance or time, it was all about giving her a "target". The distance and time needed from her workouts were an indication of what was needed for her fitness and race preparations.  

13 Feb 2011 4:17 PM
JAJ

Dona,

I guess your definition of rare and mine are different, as are our experiences.

I've raced 10 horses, and the whole bunch together have only turned in a handful or two of 6f breezes.  That is including breezes from a stakes winner at 8.5f who ran many races over 12f, even setting a new track record at 2 miles 70 yards.

How many 6f breezes have the brothers ever done?  Have they ever posted one at sub 1:12?  Have they ever breezed 5f in less than a minute?  I don't know for sure, but I doubt it.

Do you honestly expect to see a breeze from Nicanor at under 1:12?  That was my point.

Another point was that Nicanor was working alone.  I seriously doubt any of the sub 1:12 workers at Santa Anita were working alone.

At Santa Anita--a very fast track--of the 603 breezes over the past few days only 74 have been at 6f.  Of those, 9 were 1:12 or better (12%),

Compare that to the 216 4f breezes over the same days.  Sixty three horses breezed 4f in 48:00 or less.  That works out to 29% of the worker.

That's a big difference.

You can see from the numbers that it is less common for horses to give 12 second or better splits the further they  travel.  Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

13 Feb 2011 10:28 PM
Greg J.

    While it pains me to say this(just kidding!), I agree 100 percent on what JAJ is TRYING to say, just read what she is actually saying, and everyone should agree, really no argument there.

BTW, the brothers have had 78 published works between the two(32 for Lentenor, 46 for Nicanor).  Of those 78 works, only 20 have been at 5 furlong's(Lentenor seven, Nicanor 13), with neither brother breaking a minute(they each hit one minute once).  After that, between the two of them, Nicanor is the only one to have a published work at 6 furlongs or longer(one at a mile, one at 6 furlongs).

That's all...

13 Feb 2011 11:14 PM
Lou in TX

Voyager,JAJ and Dona give it a rest. Just agree to disagree. Who cares anyway, it doesn't concern our brothers! MM does what is best for our boys whether you agree with him or not. Please can we move on???

Hope everyone has a very Happy Valentines Day.

13 Feb 2011 11:20 PM
JAJ

Thank you, Greg.

13 Feb 2011 11:22 PM
Greg J.

Nicanor was nominated for the $150,000 Canadian Turf Stakes (Grade 3) at Gulfstream Park on Sunday, February 27, to be run at a distance of one mile.

Will he get in?  Tough to say, with 39 nominated for a maximum field of 14,  it will be tough.  If more then 14 are entered, they will go by graded earning's, which Nicanor has none.  I have only glanced at the nominations, once I spend more time looking at them, I will get a better sense if he will get in.

Here is a link to the nominations:

www.gulfstreampark.com/.../Can%20Turf%20Noms.pdf

A link to their past performances:

www.gulfstreampark.com/.../Can%20Turf%20PPs.pdf

If he gets in, it will be three months since his last race.  I will say this, it is exciting to think about Nicanor racing again!

14 Feb 2011 12:01 AM
Kathy

Nicanor is nominated for the Canadian Turf on February 27th at Gulfstream. Happy days are here again. I'll be watching.

14 Feb 2011 12:06 AM
Greg J.

BTW,

Kathy and Cal Gal had posted earlier this afternoon about Nicanor's nomination.  For some reason, their comments went to the "possible spam" folder where I moderate comments.  I haven't figured out why some comments go to that folder, and I don't check it that often.  So, my sincere apology to both of you!  Thanks :)

14 Feb 2011 12:15 AM
Kathy

No worries Greg. Since it is a mile on the turf, I think Nicanor will be at the lead no matter who is racing with him. And I have this feeling that the month or so Nic was on "vacation" was probably a very spiritually awakening for him. I presume if Nicanor does get in, you will be down there watching and taking lots of pictures and video.

14 Feb 2011 12:33 AM
Penny in TX

Happy Valentines Day to everyone and Barbaro's brothers, LVR and Dynaformer!

It is exciting to think about Nicanor heading for another race. I hope he does make it!

14 Feb 2011 12:03 PM
Criminal Type

I mentioned in one of my previous posts that this would be a likely race for Nicanor, The Canadian.  

"How about the Canadian Turf for Nicanor at the end of the month at Gulfstream ? It's one mile on the grass. Should be the perfect race for him and allow him to get in a few more works."

Criminal Type 02 Feb 2011 8:22 AM

I must have ESP : )

14 Feb 2011 3:17 PM
sandieh

Greg, I read both JAJ post and yours, I agree also, informative post.

Greg, that's exciting news about Nicky! I do hope that he gets in, it sounds like he has worked really hard in preparing for this race.

Happy Valentine's day to EVERYONE and all of our Equine sweethearts, and to all of our Equine Angels!

Horsey hugs to the Brothers and LaVille Rouge, Dynaformer!

14 Feb 2011 5:37 PM
Voyager

Greg,

Sorry, but I'm disappointed in your comment agreeing with JAJ. Care to explain what you're agreeing with? That she says 74 horses worked 6f at Santa Anita, 9 under 1:12 (12%) and says that's rare?

That she adds all workouts together and then strives to prove her point? Adding all workouts together to prove a point about 6f is like talking about all Cars and then include SUV's, Trucks and Motorhomes.

2/10 4:01 p.m.

"come on Cheesy read what I wrote. I said it was rare for a horse to breeze 6f in 1:12 or less",

"I didn't say a 6f breeze was rare, only doing it less than 1:12 WAS PRETTY RARE"".

Is it your contention that she was only speaking about Nicanor or Michael's training patterns? Or maybe you mean she was only talking about breezing and not handily or bullet workouts. If so, that was not the case.

JAJ inextricable insists 6f are rare even at Santa Ania.  As Dona said yesterday, "5 out of 11 is not rare". JAJ replies, her definition of rare is different from Dona's. Is that statement included in your agreement?

Your post 2/9 10:40

"To question a time in a 6 furlong work is pointless without knowing the instructions given to the rider and not knowing what Mr. Matz was looking for".

Respectfully disagree with that statement, since handicappers and writers do it all the time. I refer you to Mr. Haskins' article today on his latest Derby picks. You will note he cites several workouts times, the implications and their validity in his reasoning. Personally, I can't handicap a Maiden Race without thorough analysis of the times posted and the distance worked. Is it fool proof? Of course not but it's a factor that needs to be considered along with pedigree, trainers statistics, etc. I have no idea what the trainer said to the rider unless it's posted or passed on by a reliable source but experience tells me to take everything into consideration, including questioning the time and distance posted.  

14 Feb 2011 5:54 PM
Voyager

Criminal Type,

Can we talk money and  a superficata using your ESP?

14 Feb 2011 6:05 PM
Dona

Diastu, FYI

Eric The Ram worked on 1/29 and on 2/12. If patterns mean anything, he should have one more workout  and then be ready to roll at Santa Anita. I'm going to contact Ken and get his take on Eric's progress, I think he's ready to pop one.

14 Feb 2011 7:13 PM
Mike Relva

DIASTU

Getting ready to fly to CA on Thurs. Can probably  come to AZ in Apr. Let me know.

14 Feb 2011 7:53 PM
Mike Relva

VOYAGER

Regarding a certain individual on this blog, not giving them the time of day any longer. I'm done with it.

14 Feb 2011 8:07 PM
JAJ

Voyager,

Just compare the percentage of 4f breezes in 48:00 or less with the percentage of 6f breezes in 1:12 or less.

Try looking at a different track than Santa Anita.  I think the difference is more striking.

I'm a horseman, Voyager, not a gambler.  I know what happens in the day to day operation of a training barn.  And I know that in this day and age 6f breezes in 1:12 or less is not very common.

Why don't you talk to an exercise rider who makes their living breezing horses in the morning if you don't believe what I am trying to say.  Don't speak to Baffert's exercise rider, speak to the rider of a trainer who races horses when they are 4, 5 or 6.  You won't find too many older horses drilling the way the Derby horses do.

The vast majority of horses that turn up on the work tab are just regular ordinary horses (if a racing thoroughbred can ever be considered ordinary!) trained by unheralded men and women trying to scratch out a living.  They are not stakes horses and never were.  And, they are not being drilled by Baffert trying to get them to the Derby.

One other thing, Voyager, journalists are not horsemen.  Don't confuse the two.

14 Feb 2011 8:48 PM
Criminal Type

Voyager, You can use me all you want but some times my ESP acts like its been in contact with a bug zapper. I have been pretty lucky a few times though, the 07 derby trifacta was a really good one.

More recently. I had Unbridled Belle in the Ladies classic and Shared Account(47 to 1) (been following her since she began her career)in the Filly & Mare turf. I live in Maryland and am really impressed with her owners, the new Sagamore Farm. Kevin Plank has done an outstanding job rehabbing a long neglected fixture of Maryland racing. This was the home of the great Native Dancer for god's sake, the grey ghost of Sagamore Farm.  My grandad took me there to see him when I was 6 or 7. It had to be not long before his passing. My passion for grey horses began that day. Years later, I used to ride past it and say what a shame to let this place go like it had. It's nice to see new owners with a passion for the sport in our state. We have taken a heavy hit over recent years.

Anyway, Voyager..with me it's a feeling, call it a hunch, but I do not bet unless I feel it. Usually I get lucky....My mother called me during the post parade for this last Preakness, She was at a party for the race and she asked me who was gonna win, without even thinking I said, Lookin At Lucky. (lucky is also my rescued chihuahua's name) Ten minutes later she called me back asking me how do you do that !!!  LOL

Anyway, those of you who are interested in Maryland racing after everything the horsemen here just went through with PNG and MDI to get racing dates, I heard on the radio a commercial for Laurel Park hyping  "college day" they are offering ten $1000 scholorships you can enter to win on 2/19 at the track. I think its an interesting idea to get new young fans out to the track.

15 Feb 2011 10:44 AM
Mary

You guys need to move on to another topic.  Bottom line, JAJ and Greg are right.

Lets talk pedigree; that should get you guys stirred up.

15 Feb 2011 9:17 PM
Lou in TX

Mary...Please don't get them started again.  Enough already!!

Criminal Type...love your stories!  Good to see you back. Where have you been?

Greg, when will we hear something definite about Nicanor?

15 Feb 2011 9:46 PM
Greg J.

Back to what this blog entry was about, Dyna King/Gifted.  

Here is a video update that aired this past weekend on KPNX-TV Channel 12 News, the local NBC affiliate in Phoenix, Arizona.  

Loved it, and check out Dyna King at the 2:30 mark in the video!  Thanks Judy and to all that have donated and helped so far in Dyna King's road to recovery!  He still has a long road to travel, but, the first two months have been remarkable!

 

"Arizona rescued horse related to Barbaro"

www.azcentral.com/video

15 Feb 2011 9:48 PM
Cal Gal

That was wonderful.  Thank you for the video.  So heartwarming to see how far he's come -- he's a beautiful boy.

15 Feb 2011 10:40 PM
Barbara W

Great video, Greg. Thanks for sharing.

I've noticed one thing--this blog seems to be getting more and more

"buried" as new ones are added. If we ever move the reports on DynaKing/Gifted, please let us know where to look.

15 Feb 2011 11:24 PM
Kathy

Simply amazing what a little food, medicine and TLC can do to give hope to a horse who was near death such a short time ago. Thank you Judy and Heart of Tucson.

Thank you Greg for getting us the video.

16 Feb 2011 12:28 AM
Kathy

And Heart of Tucson, I am sure that there was a heap more food, medicine and TLC involved. I was just going by the old adage that a little kindness goes a long way. And maybe if people in Dog Patch, AZ went to a pay phone and anonymously told authorities that there was a animal in need, the animal in need wouldn't be in such bad shape when they arrived at Heart of Tucson.

16 Feb 2011 9:02 AM
Lou in TX

Greg...thank you soo much for this wonderful video about Dyna King/Gifted. He looks so good. Hopefully all the FOB's won't forget to still help this wonderful horse recover. Even a couple of dollars would help. Thank you Judy and Heart of Tuscon for giving him another shot at life. Judy hope your son is still recovering nicely. God be with both of these boys.

16 Feb 2011 9:56 AM
JAJ

Greg,

What is wrong with Dyna King's back end?  He's a mess behind.

16 Feb 2011 2:31 PM
Dona

Criminal Type,

I'm so jealous! You saw my first love, Native Dancer, in person? How awesome. Loved that Grey Ghost.

Diastu - FYI

An article today about Casper's Touch is great news. He's a Touch Gold out of Lizzy Cool by Saint Ballado and trained by Ken McPeek. Mr. McPeek is real high on the colt and thinks he deserves a chance for the Derby Trail. Might go in the Fountain of Youth or the Florida Derby to determin his chances against the big boys and if possible get the required earnings.

AND.......

I loved seeing Gifted/Dyna King and am so happy that he's improving. BUT, I am not comfortable the way he is portrayed as a half brother to Barbaro and the video of Barbaro being included in the story line. Yes, we all know the sibling relationship thing but the general public does not. Therefore, the rub. I think his situation should have included more clarity in order for people to understand,  that for all general purposes, he  had nothing to do with Barbaro. It's complicated but I felt it should have been addressed. The desire to help, publicity about his pedigree and being a sibling to Barbaro are great for bringing in donations but his plight has nothing to do with Barbaro's connections and people need to know that.          

16 Feb 2011 3:16 PM
Dona

ON ANOTHER NOTE .......

NTRA will be giving a free Education 101 for everything regarding the thoroughbred and racing. The classes will be online and starting this month and include sessions from birth and beyond. Please, please get the message to every novice, beginner, know nothing, or what ever that this will be available.

Mercifully, this might save everybody from the self designated sources of learning and provide some factual information from people that really do know "horsemanship". Oh yeah, it will include pedgrees and handicapping.

16 Feb 2011 3:30 PM
Ragsy

Your right Donna

DynaKing has nothing to do with Barbaro but he is half way there and whether anyone cares or not....I know the difference, I don't care.

Its time people focus:

on "The HORSE" and help them regardless of who or what they are, big or small, rich or poor its past time to save them.. and that includes all wild horses in America that the BLM is destroying!!

16 Feb 2011 4:18 PM
JAJ

Hey Dona,

What if what you learn at NTRA is everything I've been trying to tell you, except maybe not in as much detail as I give you?

Won't that tick you off!

16 Feb 2011 4:36 PM
Criminal Type

I just read Gio Ponte is likely to go in the Canadian Turf ad a prep for Dubai...not a very auspicious beginning for Nicanor's 5 yr old season.

16 Feb 2011 5:55 PM
Mike Relva

It seems like all a few individuals have in life is trying to prove themselves right and everyone else wrong!

16 Feb 2011 7:58 PM
JAJ

Mike Relva,

Are you talking about Dona?  It sure seems that way, doesn't it.

16 Feb 2011 9:02 PM
Dona

JAJ -

I see you're being your usual know it all, arrogant, obnoxious, pompous, pretentious and contemptuous self.

Arent't you fortunate that the anonymity of the web creates such an imaginary life of knowledge and importance for you. How pitiful you must be.  

17 Feb 2011 1:53 AM
JAJ

Gee Dona,

If I'm arrogant, obnoxious, pompous, pretentious and contemptuous, what are you?

Why have you invested so much negative energy in trying to prove me wrong?  It is unlikely to happen.

I generally am pretty sure of my facts before I post.  If I don't know something, I don't post.  I possess pretty good horsemanship skills which I have worked long and hard to develop.

Why does that bother you so much?  

I would have thought you would like to increase your knowledge, since the majority on the list want very much to learn.  When I started posting, most on the blog didn't even know what a breeze was or what it meant.

I think a large number on the blog appreciate my passing along my knowledge.  I've been very involved in the industry as an owner since 1998 and have found it very difficult to get real information from real horsemen.  Most trainers follow Charlie Whittingham's policy of treating owners like mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them a lot of manure.  If trainers treat paying owners that way, imagine how they treat the fan.  

When the Dyna King story first came out and I read the article and saw the photos, the first thing I saw was a crippled up back end and laminitis.  No mention was made of laminitis (or the back end) by the rescue or Greg.  I was the first one to mention laminitis on the blog.  Well, surprise, surprise, Dyna King had severe chronic laminitis.

No mention has ever been made of his back end.

Dyna King's newest video was posted and I CRINGED at the amount of pain he is in after several months of care and a lot of pain meds.  Never has his back end been publicly addressed.  Has he ever been thoroughly evaluated by a vet other than to deal with one crisis or another?

After seeing that video, I regret sending a donation to Heart.

17 Feb 2011 6:27 AM
Lou in TX

JAJ...if you think you know soo much, why don't you go help Tuscan and give them your expert advise instead of critizing them!! You talked with the Vet, why not call him again and tell him your opinion of Dyna King/Gifted.  It's always easier to critize others standing on the sideline.

Greg, Please don't let this argueing between JAJ and Donna go on forever like the last time they got into it.

17 Feb 2011 10:02 AM
JAJ

Lou in Tx,

I am not a vet, and I have no advice to give.

I simply asked what was wrong with his back end and whether or not a vet had performed a thorough lameness evaluation in the more than 2 months Heart has had him.

Dyna King looks to be suffering horribly.

17 Feb 2011 10:53 AM
Kathy

I will just be one happy camper when Nicanor gets in a race and wins. I'll crack open a bottle of champagne and toast Nicanor's success.

As I recall from an earlier post, Dyna King has visits from a chiropractor to alleviate his arthritis issues. You don't just get beat up for three years and all of a sudden feel better after 8 weeks. I think people need to cut the Heart of Tucson some slack here. I think Dyna King looks way better than he did a couple of months ago...IMHO.

17 Feb 2011 11:00 AM
JAJ

Kathy,

While I agree that it takes a very long time to recover from the starvation Dyna King went through, it doesn't usually take all that long to get a horse reasonably pasture sound unless there are some really serious issues.

I would have expected him to be a lot better behind with two months of treatment.  He looks really bad--I don't see any improvement although there might be some.

I don't know what is going on, but I think it is a fair question to ask if he has had a thorough lameness evaluation.

17 Feb 2011 11:35 AM
Votager

Mike Relva,

Thank you for your advice. In the future I will not address anything that woman says no matter how ludicrous she is.

This has become a JAJ know it all blog. Even to suggest that she knows as much as REAL EXPERTS that will represent the NTRA is laughable or as Dona so succinctly put it, How pitiful.

17 Feb 2011 12:26 PM
Ragsy

Mary was so right!

JaJ what about Brethern's pedigree? Mom Supercharger,  AP Indy Sire, Paternal side is Distorted Humor,  He is a 1/2 brother to SuperSaver.  There is a super article by A.Porter breaking down Brethren's pedigree and this colt may well be under rated.

Mr. Prospector is on both sides and Secretariat, Native Dancer it sure looks awesome...maybe a match made in Heaven.

17 Feb 2011 12:28 PM
Ragsy

This used to be a fun blog but it has become an ugly blog and thats no fun.  

JAJ   I do appreciate all the knowledge you have imparted and have greatly learned from your sharing, and am sorry for my mistakes in the past.  

 I just wish and pray all of us would make an effort to be nice to everyone and that includes me..so peace!!please!! and enjoy the horses, All of US,  cause they are with us for such a short time.  

17 Feb 2011 12:48 PM
Greg J.

Lou,

Done, each have had their  say.

JAJ,

I would be glad to mail you back your donation out of my own  pocket!

Criminal Type,

IF Nicanor gets in on the 27th(a big if), it would be great if Gio Ponti also made the field.  Nicanor would have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  If he were able to beat a champion like Gio Ponti?  I couldn't think of a better way to kick off his five year old campaign.

Kathy,

Echo your thoughts completely!

17 Feb 2011 1:41 PM
Dona

OPEN LETTER TO HEART

Judy,

 An individual posting as JAJ, on this blog, has continually questioned your treatment of Dyna King/Gifted in a what I consider a totally inappropriate mamnner. Although I admit it is her right to express her opinion, I think it is in poor taste to say the least.

JAJ, has publicily expressed her remorse for donating to you on Gifted's behalf. Therefore, if you would kindly post, on this blog, the amount of money in question, I will gladly reimburse you that  donated amount. You are aware of who this indivudal is, it is not my request for her to be identified, only the amount she regrets sending.

I will also enclose additional monies for any expense that this request emcumbers. I know you appreciate any and all donations made on the horses behalf and I sincerely appologize for the intrusion but I feel this request is warranted.

17 Feb 2011 1:44 PM
JAJ

Hi Ragsy,

Thanks for your support; I really appreciate it.  I agree--it was a fun blog, and I am sorry it has become so unpleasant where some individuals seem bent and determined to undermine me simply because I have a differing perspective to the unwanted horse problem than many here.  These same people seem to have driven away some from the blog that also gave a lot of good information to everyone, me included.  Where is HorseFirst--I've very much missed her posts.

If everyone were honest, they would agree much of the animosity shown to me recently is because some disagree with my position of "you can't save them all" and my belief that it is wasteful and counterproductive (to saving the most horses) to invest a lot of resources into cases where the outcome looks very poor right from the start.

Trying desperately to find fault in what I write only to have me proven right must infuriate some.  I mean, really, the vitriol expressed over the frequency of sub 1:12 6f breezes left me dumbfounded.

It is too bad we just can't civilly disagree.  Heck, it is too bad many on the blog won't engage in civil discourse period.  It is one thing to disagree and have a respectful debate but quite another to call people names.

Ragsy, I am not a pedigree expert by any means, so can offer very little insight.  Enjoy reading about the horses behind the current stars.

17 Feb 2011 1:54 PM
Ragsy

Thanks to Madeleine Pickens and Dan Barton and his efforts to decrease the budget of the BLM, voted and approved today to cut by 2 million dollars....maybe some hope for the Wild Mustang's yet...

Gio and Nic what a race that would be...as usual you always have the right words GregJ...

17 Feb 2011 2:15 PM
JAJ

Greg J,

What do you think the likely outcome is if Nicanor runs against Gio Ponti at a mile on the grass?  Something really bad has to happen to Gio Ponti for Nicanor to win.

Nicanor has everything to lose getting whupped in a race.  Horses are not machines--it is a mental game for them, too.  Over facing a horse is a sure way to teach them to not try.  You can break their spirit.  They know the quality and class of the other horses in the starting gate.  My trainer believes, although she laughs when she says it, that the horses sort themselves out and decide the outcome of a race before they even go into the starting gates.

He has not proven he belongs in graded stakes company, and Gio Ponti is legitimate Grade 1 stakes caliber.  I hope Gio Ponti doesn't go.

17 Feb 2011 2:22 PM
JAJ

Dona,

Are you crazy?  Imagine asking a charitable organization to disclose the amount people donate.  Unbelievable!

Since everyone is so eager to give me my money back why don't you all donate on my behalf to LongRun.  

www.longrunretirement.com/index.html

Maybe we can channel your anger and get a lot of money donated to charities in order to punish the big, bad JAJ.  How about a contest???  Let's see how much money can we raise for JAJ's charity of choice just to somehow make JAJ look like a bad person.  How funny you are!

Shall we do it?  I can call them today and set it up.  I'll donate the first $100.  How about it?

17 Feb 2011 3:19 PM
Ragsy

JAJ

I understand that so many just don't like horse slaughter or not giving a horse a chance, but the living does deserve a 2nd chance.

I deplore horse slaughter and not helping another that needs human helping.  Your views are yours and just not supported here and you have given alot of good information. I do respect your knowledge and help.

About HorseFirst I would also appologize to her because I was rude to her too, and she is so nice.  could it be that writing online I become insensitive to others?

That is something I don't want to be, perhaps, If I ever post again I will think more before I write and be very slow to respond, life is truly very short when one thinks about it and I don't want to ruin the rest of mine by saying things I will regret later on.

I love reading pedigrees of these marvelous horses.. have a great day and wonderful weekend up and comming !

17 Feb 2011 4:37 PM
Pokey

JAJ, they accuse you of using your internet anonymity to advance your "cause," while they use their internet anonymity to spew vitriol in your direction. I am saddened and disappointed, but not surprised. I, too, couldn't believe the hatred leveled at you over sub-1:12 6f breezes! In re-reading "Secretariat," William Nack basically says what you have said here, do they disagree with Bill Nack too?

"A twelve-clip is the rate of speed horses must average or maintain to win major stakes races at American middle and classic distances, distances from a mile to a mile and a quarter.

"Most horses, even young two-year-olds like Secretariat, Angle Light, and All or None, should be able to run at a twelve-clip for a few furlongs - at least four.

"That means they would be running one-eighth of a mile in 0:12, one-quarter in 0:24, three-eights in 0:36, a half mile in 0:48.

"At that rate of speed, a horse would run six furlongs, or three-quarters of a mile, in 1:12, which would win races on some tracks. If a horse strung together two more furlongs at a twelve-clip, he would be running a mile in 1:36, a time that equals or betters the clocking for six of the dozen runnings of the $50,000-added Jerome Handicap at Belmont Park between 1961 and 1972. [THIS IS THE PERTINENT PART] ***The degree of difficulty in sustaining a twelve-clip beyond a mile, unlike sustaining it from four furlongs in 0:48 to five furlings in one minute, increases in quantum jumps. The degree of difficulty increases vastly beyond a mile.***" --William Nack, "Secretariat"

{EMPHASIS AND ***'s MINE}

Sub-twelve clips for 3 or 4 furlongs, based on Nack's explanation, would be extremely more common than sub-1:12's for 6 furlongs, just based on the degree of difficulty to maintain the 12-second furlong for 6 furlongs. This season, I would not count reference sub-1:12's at Santa Anita because we all know (if we're thinking, watching, and reading) that Santa Anita's new dirt surface is playing extremely fast, so sub-1:12's wouldn't be as "unusual" or "uncommon" as at other tracks, which is what JAJ is saying. I am far from the "expert" you all seem to be (Dona and Voyager), but even I can read what JAJ is saying and understand it. I'm pretty sure you can too, you just need something to argue with her about, and anything that comes off her keyboard is suspect in your eyes.

I honestly have never seen anyone so rude on a discussion board about horseracing, except maybe DRF's facebook during the HOY voting.

17 Feb 2011 11:36 PM
Pokey

P.S. I didn't leave, JAJ, I've been censored more times than not.

18 Feb 2011 12:00 AM
NancyC

I always come to this blog daily..I want to know what is up with Nicanor, Lentenor, Margano, and Dyna King..but sometimes it is just too hateful.  

18 Feb 2011 1:00 AM
Kathy

As we wait for the brothers to return to racing, I hope you will allow me to tell you of the story I read this morning. Apparently a rescue group called Animal Defenders International have brought 25 rescued circus lions from Bolivia to a place called The Wild Animal Sanctuary in Colorado. They arrived in Denver on Wednesday of this week. You would think that in the 21st century, people would begin to grow a brain and treat animals better. Who knows, maybe in the 22nd century.  

www.wildanimalsanctuary.org

Bob Barker financed the $200,000 operation.

18 Feb 2011 8:11 AM
Cal Gal

Come on everyone!  I am  truly distressed that Horsefirst may have been driven off by the words expressed here.  This is a blog about the brothers of Barbaro and we are here for information and to express our feelings about the brothers of Barbaro.  Those who have information to contribute should always be welcomed and treated with respect.  If we don't agree with what they say, we can state that, but name-calling and

insults are never justified. Lets

all just grow up and treat others as we would wish to be treated.

18 Feb 2011 3:15 PM
sandieh

Ragsy, nice post. I feel the same way about horse slaughter.Almost unbelievable that it still exists.While everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, you are right that JAJ has provided a lot of good information.And HorseFirst, where have you been?

I hope that we hear soon if Nicky gets in. It sure will be  nice to see him run again! Go "NIcky knocks"!

It sounds like Derby contenders are starting to line up. Any predictions?

18 Feb 2011 7:55 PM
diastu

Greg - as moderator please give Mike Relva my email off line so he can reach me.

Dona - thanks for heads up on Eric the Ram. As Holy Ground's only racing offspring (as far as I can tell) I will be tuning in when he races.

Diana is an idiot - just got back from 3 days at conference in Tucson and completely brain froze by not thinking to go see DyanKing.

Mike - have fun in my home state and email soon.

Greg - please start a new blog - this one is becoming way too long and cumbersome (in more ways than one).

19 Feb 2011 2:55 AM
lobiebb

I have not posted in awhile but have been reading comments everyday.  I will not say that I am in favor of some things said by JAJ and others but do not condemn what she or others say as this is the land of free speech.  JAJ and Horssefirst have given many things that the general populace did not know and commend them for what they have taught us. You may not agree with all of what has gone on on this blog but she and others do have their own opinions and have the right to voice them as you have the right to voice yours.  I do not agree with JAJ about Gifted but that also is my choice.  Please let this rest, take all the good things that they have offered for knowlege and just disregard all the things you do not agree with.  

19 Feb 2011 9:53 AM
Linda/Maryland

I come here every day also. Most of the time I no longer post. The whole reason for this Blog is "Tracking Barbaro's Brothers". This Blog has totally moved in another direction. Barbaro's brothers are no longer the subject matter of this blog. We get no information on them. We only read the "master posters" arguing with each other.

I am not here for that. I would like to get back to the purpose of this blog.

"TRACKING BARBARO'S BROTHERS"

Thank you~

19 Feb 2011 11:15 AM
Ragsy

JAJ

Points out some very good insight regarding Gio Ponti, the last thing I want is Nicanor being the whipping post in a race, his psyche is worth more than that. Thanks JAJ for setting the record straight.

Sandie

Its good to see you again and looking forward to seeing the Brothers.

 How about Brethren as an up and comming threat in the Kentucky Derby.  I sure love his stunning pedigree, course I am thrilled with Uncle Mo, he is awesome to watch...and you can find him on facebook too.  

Cal Gal

I made a stupid statement to HorseFirst and she never returned, it leaves me very sad, never to be able to say I am sorry..

"the sticks and stones" saying has it wrong, "words mean everything" so be gentle with ones thoughts and what we write for we never know what harm or good they may do.  

19 Feb 2011 2:26 PM
Jan

This is my last word on the subject.

5 out of the last ten days at Hollywood Park, (NOT SANTA ANITA) a horse has worked 1:11.80 @ 6f with the exception of

YOU CAN DREAM that worked 1:10.80.

Believe what you want but 6f sub 1:12 workouts in California are  common every day occurrances. That's why everyone was so incensed in what was stated as fact, that they were rare. Futhermore, they are not necessarily the top rated horses either, Cork Creek?

Dona pointed out that 5 out 11 horses went sub 1:12 in one day,  the reply was their definition of rare was different.

Enough said. Not only am I moving on from this debate, I think I'll confine myself to other areas. I'm getting into the new crop for this year and am more interested in the stars of tomorrow.

19 Feb 2011 4:36 PM
Kathy

Although I was rooting for Rogue Romance, my congratulations go out to Mucho Macho Man and his connections.

And here is hoping Eibar Coa recovers fully.

19 Feb 2011 6:21 PM
JAJ

Greg,

Have you heard what is the problem with Dyna King's back end?

19 Feb 2011 6:34 PM
Greg J.

Where to begin?

First, obviously, I know this blog is called "Tracking Barbaro's Brothers".  Trust me, if there was more I could write about the brothers, I would, it is not for a lack of trying people.  When I wrote about Dyna King, I didn't plan on not having another entry for this long, believe me!  When there is something to write regarding Nicanor, Lentenor, Margano, and La Ville Rouge, I will write about them.  Everyone needs to relax and have a little more patience, thank you!

This is for the people that care and have been following Dyna King's story/progress.  Judy sent me this message two nights ago(I haven't been able to post due to one of my cats spilling a glass of milk on my computer, and I just had time to buy a new one this afternoon!).

Update on Dyna King/Gifted from Judy Glore, president of HEART of Tucson:

"Hi Greg, He has had bad feet for a long time, and a bowed tendon that was never cared for. He has been laying down for a long time. He had muscle atrophy in the rear end, as well as his shoulders and back. When he starts out in the morning he is stiff still, but the more he walks around he pulls out of it. He was also very jammed up in his joints, and hips and we have had a wonderful, very knowledgeable chiropractor working with him and he does very well after his treatments. He does have more abscesses in his feet that are still coming through and that is very painful to him before they break open. He does have laminitis but Dr. Hutchinson thinks it can be manageable for him. Dr. Lynn Stone thinks he will work through alot of this as well. We have him on Equioxx for the pain. It is a little more expensive than bute but is so much better on their stomach than the other. He is also on probios, and gastroguard. We have another appointment to get him in for more X-Rays this next week, and we will know more then. I have seen a big change in how he is moving, and feeling in the short 9 weeks that we have had him here. His treatments, and therapy are going to take a long time, and it is expensive but I think he will come through this, and he can have a great life as a pasture mate. He has one more shot of adaquan to go and then he has finished his 7 shot series. Unfortunately, we see horses come in like this too often, but we also see them pull through to where no one else would have ever given them a chance to. He laid down the first few weeks he was here most of the day, and now he stands for most of the day. He walks himself out of his door now, and goes out to visit the other horses. His attitude has completely turned around, from a horse that had nearly given up, to one that looks forward to whats next. This part is hard for people to see, I know, but if we think for one minute his quality of life won't be good, we will let him pass. Everyone loves him here and we don't want to see him go through all of this for nothing. We are really praying that he can go retire at a wonderful place where he can live out the rest of his life. Greg, you can call me at any time, and yes, I do see him pulling through this. It's a long road Greg, but I think he can do it. He sure acts like he wants to. Here is a little thought for you, he was out of his stall today for almost 4 hours walking around and grazing the bermuda off of the ground today, he went back to his stall to drink, and walked out again on his own, and then he had his foot soak. If he was still in the same pain as he was before, he wouldn't stay on his feet for so long now. He is laying down less and less, this is what we see.

I hope I was able to answer some of your very good questions, and I will have even more news for you after his next visit to another vet. We are really trying to get all the bases covered for this guy. I will also be very honest, and let you know what this Dr. thinks. I can give you his name after I ask him if it is ok, people called Dr. Hutchinson after his name was given, but he didn't mind. I just don't want to get any of the vets mad at us here, we work very well with them all. I don't mind letting you know, but they don't want everyone calling them about Dyna King, I know you understand that part. I will give them permission to talk to you. You have done so much for this guy already, we couldn't have done this one on our own without a strain on our funds. Thank you.

Sorry this was so long, lol, have a great night Greg."

Judy

"(Oh, his appointment is next Monday, keep him in your prayers.)"

There you are, I HOPE that answers alot of questions.  Once again, Thank You to Judy, HEART of Tucson, and everybody that has helped in Dyna King's fight to survive!   Dyna King is in for a long, hard battle to recover, he has only just begun this fight, I wish everyone would realize this and remember that everything that can be done to help him is being done.  I am sorry, but in nine short weeks, Dyna King is showing his will to live and he is improving.  I am praying very hard that he will win this battle!  Thanks everyone...

Finally, I am done posting comments that are negative and serve no purpose, so please, remember this when writing a comment, thanks.

19 Feb 2011 7:29 PM
JAJ

Thanks for the update, Greg.  Sorry about your computer.

19 Feb 2011 7:58 PM
CLee

Hello Greg, I was racing through the blog looking for that bold type and was so glad to hear that Dyna King is doing better and being helped by very good people. I appreciate hearing about him and look forward to more information on Barbaro's family. Thank you from one of the many fans.

19 Feb 2011 8:43 PM
Pokey

Thanks a bunch Greg, it sounds like DK is an incredible fellow with an amazing will to live. I look forward to hearing about his appointment and what the new vet thinks.

I am also in agreement with whoever asked for a new blog post. This one is rather long in the tooth. Even if just to say that the brothers are doing well, just to start a new conversation and not one that takes a long time to load and having to scroll so far to the bottom to find the newer posts. Sorry about your computer, I know what a pain it is to set up a new one and reload all your stuff on it. Hopefully you didn't lose anything important off your old one.

Have a good weekend - we are under a winter storm warning after midnight. Not a good thing, after I have spent 10 days in Mexico! I miss it already!!!

19 Feb 2011 9:43 PM
Penny in TX d

Thanks for the update Greg. Its good to hear about Dyna King.

19 Feb 2011 11:18 PM
Lou in TX

Greg...thank you soo much for the update on Dyna King/Gifted. Can't wait to hear what the new Vet. has to say. He will be in our thoughts and prayers.

Sorry about your computer. Better luck with the new one.

20 Feb 2011 2:18 PM
Barbara W

Thank you so much, Greg, and God bless everyone at Heart of Tucson. We so appreciate the updates. Will keep checking back on this blog.

20 Feb 2011 4:26 PM
sandieh

Greg, thank you so much for the update on Gifted, special thanks to Judy. I think that the phrase "He sure acts like he wants to" runs in the family. May he be blessed with better health and recovery, it may take a while but it certainly sounds like Judy and Heart are doing everything they can.

Ragsy, I hope that if HorseFirst is out here reading that she sees your post. Spoken from the heart.

Ok, Nicky, Lennie, Margano, guys its getting close to time that you will all be big Brothers.Margano, we have a birthday coming up, I am going to make a carrot cake and take a day off to watch a good movie.Hope to see some pictures soon.

Special prayers to Eibar Coa and family during his recovery from an awful accident.It is always sad to hear this type of news, I do wish him the best..

20 Feb 2011 4:55 PM
Danielle

I have just read the story and comments posted for the first time today. The out pouring of love for Gifted has brought tears to my eyes. As a volunteer at Heart, all of the horses have a place in my heart but he has the biggest piece of it. He is feeling better by the day. This morning he looked at me as if to say "Did ya bring my carrots?" Every week his eyes are a little brighter and shows improvement. He still has a long road ahead of him but he has the will and the attitude to make it.

20 Feb 2011 9:42 PM
Greg J.

Danielle,

Thank You!  Seeing your comment first thing this morning has made my day!

FYI,

If Nicanor gets into the race Sunday (Feb. 27), he will be running!  Fingers crossed he gets in and I will write a new entry for his race.

21 Feb 2011 7:02 AM
sandieh

Danielle, I believe sometimes that a horse can "talk" with his eyes. I know that Heart is doing everything possible to make his recovery as comfortable as possible. I am also so appreciative that Greg brought the story of Gifted to us, his  story highlights what so many other precious equines go through. May God Bless everyone at Heart for putting in the extraordinary effort in taking care of these horses.

Greg, have you heard any news on Micheal Martinez? Last I heard was that he was allowed to go home for a holiday visit and was in good spirits (after that awful accident that left him paralyzed from the waist down) It saddens my heart to hear about Micheal and Eibar, I do hope they continue to heal.

21 Feb 2011 7:44 AM
sandieh

Greg, fingers crossed, toes crossed, everything crossed (don't sound excited do I) that Nicky gets in. Will be great to see Nicanor on the track again!

21 Feb 2011 7:48 AM
Sarah

Nicanor had just another workout today:

Nicanor (5-Year-Old Horse)

Date: February 21, 2011

Track: PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER

Distance: Four Furlongs

Time: 49:70 Breezing

Track Condition: Fast

Surface: Dirt

Rank: 6/16

I'm not sure if he's ready for a graded stakes race.

Away from the brothers does anyone know whether Storm On The Moon was claimed on feb. 20 at Gulfstream?

Like that one pretty well.

21 Feb 2011 9:14 AM
Lou in TX

Oh my!  Another work out for Nicanor.  Greg when will we know for sure he made the entry?  I know you will keep us posted.

21 Feb 2011 10:17 AM
JAJ

Sarah,

Storm on the Moon won and was not claimed.

21 Feb 2011 10:33 AM
Greg J.

Lou,

While not 100 percent positive,  I believe the entries for Sunday will be posted Wednesday morning.

21 Feb 2011 10:41 AM
AngelaFromAbilene

I know ya'll are trying to focus on "The Brothers" but I don't know where else to go with this, perhaps someone on this blog may have an idea.  

Saturday, my husband came home with 4 horses that were on their way to our local killer.  15 y/o mare w/nursing filly by 4 y/o nephew; 12 y/o mare and her 4 y/o un-cut son (sire.)  It is quite possible that both mares (who are full sisters) are now in foal by the 4 y/o.  The vet will be here tomorrow to ultrasound the mares and geld the horse.  

I will take responsibility for the mares.  I was their trainer years ago and my husband owned the matriarch of this clan.  When I heard through the grapevine they were going to the killer, I told my husband to get the mares...we owe it to them.  

But what to do with a seriously inbred 4 y/o soon to be gelding that is ALMOST halter broken with a blowed out knee and a weanling filly that has a tree stump for a pedigree?!      

I cannot tell you how hearbreaking it to see the results of such greed and utter stupidity.  Greed because for years we tried to get these mares back but the owner thought because they were "racehorses" they were worth a kings ransom.  Stupidity because the owner didn't have enough sense to geld the first colt to stop all of this non-sense!

If ya'll have any ideas for the filly and the soon to be gelding, and possible unborn foals, I'm all ears.  I simply do not have the resources (time, energy, space or financial) for them.  

21 Feb 2011 10:52 AM
Ivy77

We're all pulling for Dyna-King.  The fact that he is at least being given comfort and a chance for survival is enough for me.  Thanks, too, Greg, for doing away with the negative comments.  All the negativity in the world just wears me down.  Thanks for doing your part to alleviate this from our lives.  Oh, and thanks Heart of Tucson for your kindness and care of this wonderful horse.

21 Feb 2011 12:07 PM
NancyC

I just got to say Awesome GEM has a published workout...Love the guy

21 Feb 2011 6:36 PM
Kathy

Great Job Nicanor!!!!

Nicanor (5-Year-Old Horse)

Date: February 21, 2011

Track: PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER

Distance: Four Furlongs

Time: 49:70 Breezing

Track Condition: Fast

Surface: Dirt

Rank: 6/16 - See the day's workouts

21 Feb 2011 10:05 PM
Mike Relva

HELLO GREG

While in CA visited with The Tin Man. Has been moved,everyone was very nice and he looks great. He has great care. Also,talked with Judy on Monday while on freeway.

23 Feb 2011 11:57 AM
Lou in TX

Just got the word from Handyman(a she, works with the boys) and Nicanor is running this weekend. Also told me Lenny looks great and is very happy.  Also, Margano is dark like daddy but has Lenny's head. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could see some new pictures of him.  Bet he is amazing!

23 Feb 2011 12:24 PM
Greg J.

Mike,

Thanks for the update on the Tin Man and about your "chat" with Judy, quite an amazing woman!

23 Feb 2011 7:50 PM
Cal Gal

I think the most significant piece of info about Margano is  that he was easier to train than his brothers were and that he's gorgeous and very sweet.  Am really looking forward to Margano, as well as his big brothers!

23 Feb 2011 8:25 PM
Lou in TX

Thanks Cal Gal....I just saw that info after I had already posted here. I was going by what Handyman wrote to me directly. But that is what she posted in another post earlier than mine.  Glad you brought that to the table. It is definitely very important info. He also has Lenny's soft eyes. Would love to see a picture of him now. She also said he was very big. WOW!

It may take him a while to grow into his skin so to speak. Just like all Dynaformer babies, except maybe Barbaro.

24 Feb 2011 12:25 AM
JAJ

Lou in TX,

This blog seems to be under the impression that Dynaformer does not get 2-year old runners.

We need to put everything in perspective.

The TOP 2-year old sire for 2010, More Than Ready, get 41% of his 2-year olds to the races and 15% of them win (lifetime stats).

Dynaformer gets the same percentage of babies to the races (41%) with 13% winning.

More than Ready gets 2% stakes winning juveniles while Dynaformer gets 1%.

Dynaformer horses do run as juveniles.

24 Feb 2011 8:19 AM
Cal Gal

Thanks, JAJ, for those statistics.

Pedigree and its influence on a horse's ability is (for me) the most fascinating aspect of this sport.  I could wallow in this information quite happily!

24 Feb 2011 12:52 PM
Lou in TX

JAJ

I never said or even suggested that Dynaformer never got 2 yr olds to the track. All I was saying is that they mature slower as we have seen with Nicanor and Lentenor with Barbaro being the exception. Sorry if you interperted it another way. You won't get an arguement from me.

24 Feb 2011 1:09 PM
Ragsy

Thanks Lou on the Nicanor information..

Good reading below by Abigail Anderson, a true horse loving person..

The Vault: horse racing past and present

featuring: Secretariats Heart:

          The Story of Istabrag

His sire of Sires: Sadler Wells, Dam: Betty's Secret, Sire: Secretariat

What an inspiring story on line.  Champion Istabrag is also on facebook and  has a book written about him... a 19 year old retired Secretariat bloodline.   AWESOME

24 Feb 2011 1:29 PM
Criminal Type

Nicanor is breaking from the 3 hole in the Canadian Turf on Saturday at Gulfstream with Julian Leparoux in the saddle. Looks like his main competition will be Twilight Metour and Yankee Fortune...Thankfully NO Gio Ponte. Nic has a good shot at this one. Good Luck Nicanor !

24 Feb 2011 2:39 PM
Kathy

Welllll, I know what I will be doing Sunday and that is watching Nicanor race in the Canadian Turf. J.R. Leparoux will be aboard.

You'll win Nic.

You'll win Nic.

You'll definitely win Nic.

rah, rah, You'll win Nic

You'll win Nic, rah, rah rah.

Best of Luck Nicanor!!!!!

24 Feb 2011 2:42 PM
Criminal Type

Oops my bad, it's Sunday, not Saturday.

24 Feb 2011 2:48 PM
Pokey

Good luck to Nicanor, hopefully Matz has figured out where he can be most successful. Barbaro was a succcessful turfer, maybe Nic will follow most successfully in those hoofprints.

24 Feb 2011 4:29 PM
Lou in TX

Crimimal Type...thanks for the info about the gate. Now I need to know what time the race is starting (Central time). Anybody know?

24 Feb 2011 4:43 PM
JAJ

Here is a really good paper on guidelines for transitioning racehorses to other careers.  It is written by the Transitioning Subcommittee of the AAEP Racing Committee.

At the end of the paper, you'll get some sense of the costs of rehabbing a horse.

www.aaep.org/images/files/TransitioningGuidelines2011.pdf

24 Feb 2011 6:39 PM
JAJ

Lou in TX,

The statistics don't bear out your assertion that Dynaformers are more slow to mature.

That's all I'm pointing out.

24 Feb 2011 6:42 PM
sandieh

Yippie!!!!!!!! That's a cheer, Kathy!

I do hope that we will be able to tune in, if not I'm sure that Bloodhorse may pick up a video. Sounds like Nicky has really been working out for this, good luck sweet Nicky, come home safe!

Ragsy, thanks for the tip on Istabrag, tips like this can expand our knowledge about other bloodlines.

JAJ, yes, there are several young Dynaformers running. It would be fun to watch some of them!

Margano, our birthday is coming up March 10th, please feel free to come over to my place for some carrot cake! you to, Lennie and Nicky!  

24 Feb 2011 7:26 PM
Mike Relva

GREG

Your welcome. There should be some news regarding DK tomorrow.

24 Feb 2011 7:38 PM
Greg J.

Lou,

Nicanor's race is the feature race on the card(10th race), and will go off about 5:26 eastern time.

I will have a new blog entry up tomorrow morning taking a look at the race.

24 Feb 2011 7:48 PM
sandieh

Mike Relva, You know Tin Man is one of my favorite horses. I watched him from a very young age until he was retired. He was still running and winning at nine (at least)He should be twelve now. I know every once in a while you get to see him, what a nice horse!

24 Feb 2011 9:15 PM
Lou in TX

Greg....can't wait for your new blog. Thanks for the info. Hope TVG will be carrying the race at Gulfstream. Will BH have the video if TVG doesn't carry the race? Hopefully so for those of us that have TVG and not HRTV. Haven't seen too many races at Gulfstream lately.

Go Nicanor!!! We love you big boy or should I say young man, win or lose!  Just come home safe and healthy.

25 Feb 2011 12:23 AM
Lise from Maine

Hi!

Nicanor is racing on February 27,

2011 at Gulfstream Park in Race 10 with Jockey J. Leparoux.

Good Luck, Nicanor!

I hope that TVG shows this race since it is the ONLY channel that I get that shows horse racing but maybe I can watch it on Gulfstream's website when the race is over.

What happened to Lentenor? Is he no longer racing? What about Margeno? What is he doing? Isn't La Ville Rouge ready to deliver a new baby soon?

So many questions as there aren't any news about them anymore.

Thank you!

25 Feb 2011 1:08 AM
Lou in TX

Lise from Maine

Lentenor is at the Stephens where Margano is being trained right now.

He's on vacation. Have heard he is very handsome and very happy there.

Margano is dark like his Daddy Dynaformer, has Lentenor's head and soft eyes. They say he is easy to train like Barbaro was and seems very happy.  If you will look back a few posts you'll see the update on both.

Hope that answers your questions. I to hope TVG is carrying the race for I don't have HRTV. Hopefully BH will have the video after the race is over. Or like you said maybe watch it at Gulfstream.

25 Feb 2011 11:17 AM
Cal Gal

I signed up for HRTV live streaming for 6 months and will watch the race that way. It is @ $50 for 6 months.  TVG doesn't carry Gulfstream.

25 Feb 2011 1:13 PM
Mary

I have HRTV, so will try to give everyone updates.  

25 Feb 2011 1:53 PM
NancyC

Best of speed,endurance, and stamina to you Nicanor.  Come Home safe and sound. You can beat that Meteor fellow.  Good Luck!!

25 Feb 2011 5:18 PM
Pokey

Love Nic, but love Smarty Jones too so I'm rooting for Dr. Smarty Jack. But he's in deep so I think Nicanor has a better chance. But Jack needs a cheering section too! :D

25 Feb 2011 5:59 PM
Mike Relva

SANDIEH

He's thirteen,looks great. The owner's daughter has him at her ranch. They are very nice people and gave me one of his horse shoes. Really enjoyed the visit,brought him a couple bags of mints. Will visit again asap.

25 Feb 2011 9:25 PM
jclson)(Fan of Nicanor)

Oh Barbaro's Brothers will always come first no other horse will come before these boys.  I don't care if Nicanor comes in last>  I will never put another horse in front of NIcanor, Lentenor, Margano.  Smarty Jones boys i Love them too but not when it comes to Barbaro's brothers.

26 Feb 2011 12:36 PM
Cal Gal

It is reported that Margano is big, dark, beautiful and very sweet (and much easier to train than Nic and Len apparently), so I went back and revisited the blog about him on Bloodhorse

and he really looks the most like Barbaro IMO, right down to the bleeding heart on his forehead. He is much darker (at least now with his Winter Coat) than the rest of the colts in this family but Margano is exciting and it is going to be exciting to see him develop!

Now, to the business at hand, GO NICANOR! (and come home safe and sound).

26 Feb 2011 1:41 PM
Criminal Type

Cal Gal, your right, Margano IS darker then the rest of the brothers, Barbaro included. All three of them are bay like La Ville Rouge. Margano is colored like his sire, Dynaformer. He is a dark brown colt and in my opinion resembles dear ol' dad more then the other three do. Even his face looks like Dynaformer. I am glad to hear he has a sweet disposition, I would hate to think he got the old man's temper along with his coloring. Best of luck to Nicanor tomorrow.

26 Feb 2011 4:50 PM
Criminal Type

TVG does not carry Gulfstream, but, they usually play all the stakes replays as soon as the results are official. I just watched the Devona Dale on TVG. Dissapointed that Dancinginherdreams was second, but R Heat Lightning is a real nice filly. The hutchenson is going in the gate in a few minutes. I still like Black N Beauty, even though he got his ass handed to him in the Holy Bull. I expect he will go better today at the shorter distance.

26 Feb 2011 4:53 PM
Chris K

Well said jclson. I love our boys (Nicanor, Lentenor and Margano) like you won't believe.  I love all horses and animals but Barbaro's family holds a special place in my heart. There will never be another Barbaro and following his brothers and being on this blog with others who love Barbaro's family has helped me heal.  

27 Feb 2011 2:04 AM
sandieh

Mike Relva, thanks for the news about Tin Man. My goodness, and you have one of his shoes! May that be a Lucky Horseshoe!

27 Feb 2011 6:55 PM
Mike Relva

SANDIEH

Yes,was very suprised to receive it. Next time I'm in CA will hope they have time again to let me drop by.

27 Feb 2011 9:13 PM
Greg J.

Latest from Judy Glore on Dyna King/Gifted, president of HEART of Tucson:

"Gifted came out of his stall and went to the arena yesterday and bucked and ran from me when I went to put his soaker boots on. Dr. Larry Shamus who is great with horses, and feet said his feet had infection in the bone. We can get him well for awhile with antibiotics,... hoof cleaning and the care we are doing but, he will always have these flair ups. Can we get him to quality of life where there is no pain? and can he ever be well enough to hold his own? We don't know. We do know that miracles do happen here, and we want the best for this guy. Not because of who he is, but what he is, A horse that didn't deserve what he got. We all love him, and will be here for him day in, and day out, but we won't let a horse suffer either. The jury is out on this case, and we fight along side him as long as he is willing. We have defied euthanasia several times and pulled them through. He will let us know what direction he wants to take. Right now he is a fighter and wants to live, last week he was ready to quit, today he showed me that he is not a quitter. I have to trust the feeling from the animal we are caring for. Just everyone be prepared because he may not feel like this next week.  Sorry I haven't posted lately but I have been so busy with him, and the other ones that need us all.  Night all"

HEART of Tucson Facebook page:

www.facebook.com/group.php

He IS a fighter and so wants to live, he needs everyone's prayers and positive thoughts, he just has to beat this and survive, he has to!

Thank You...

02 Mar 2011 7:58 AM
Lou in TX

Our prayers are with Dyna KIng/Gifted. If he does need to be put down, and I wish with all my heart he doesn't, he will know he was LOVED and that's very important. He just doesn't know how many people are pulling for him.  God Bless you Judy and all those working at HEART. We know you will do what is best for our hero.

02 Mar 2011 11:35 AM
Ragsy

Prayers offered for DynaKing, he is in my heart and on my mind.  

02 Mar 2011 12:23 PM
rams2050

Let us all pray for the sweet and gallant Dynaking.

If he is a fighter, then I am hoping he can fight his way through this, the latest adversity to strike him.

If the fight becomes too tough for him to handle, then I pray that he understands that he did fight the good fight and that hundreds of people who may have never met him are there at his shoulder, providing lots of prayers, good wishes and love, as he makes his final journey to the Rainbow Bridge.

I, like every other FOB, is praying that the infection in his bone dies down and that he pulls out of this once more and is able to enjoy the sweet green grass of spring and lots of peppermints!

Good luck, Dynaking!  We're all pulling for you!

02 Mar 2011 2:05 PM
Lise from Maine

Bonjour DynaKing/Gifted,

I am so sorry to hear that you have an infection.

God love you!

Those, who have hurt you, ought to be in jail.

Keep fighting, Baby, and you will make it. Your brother, Barbaro, fought the good fight, too.

Lots of love to you, Dyna King/Gifted.

02 Mar 2011 3:28 PM
Cal Gal

It is my fervent prayer that Dyna King will be given every chance to survive.  That he will demonstrate whether or not HE wants to fight and that those around him are willing to fight with him.  This horse never deserved the treatment and neglect he received and I would love to see him recover and be able to live well, which really is "the best revenge". We love you Dyna King!

02 Mar 2011 3:57 PM
Kathy

I just read on Facebook that D.K., latest abcess was draining again and he is feeling better, but per Judy, it is a rollercoaster for both her and especially Gifted. There has gotta be something that'll keep the infections at bay.

02 Mar 2011 5:25 PM
Mike Relva

Wishing DK all the best for a full recovery.

02 Mar 2011 6:02 PM
ivy77

Wishing DynaKing all the best, but taking comfort in the fact that, should the worst happen, it didn't happen alone in the desert coupled with the pain of starvation.  The horse knows he is loved.  That will be his peace and mine.

03 Mar 2011 7:31 AM

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