Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Concerned Fan — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:09 GMT

JAJ, these folks will savage anyone who does not fall to their knees and worship Nicanor or Barbaro, but you already know that. Obviously some of these people have never seen a horse up close. I am really more of a casual fan than anything - never been to a horse race, and never bet a racehorse, I just love horses. But I do have a brain and the ability to think logically, and I appreciate your insight and first-hand knowledge of the "business" and your ability to step back and separate your emotions from the facts. It's nice to step away from "WE LOVE YOU BARBARO!!!" and "NICANOR WILL WIN THE BREEDERS CUP!!!" for a few minutes to read your posts, which are always thoughtful and filled with reason over emotion. Keep it up!

[end shameless reverence] ;-)

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Kathy — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:05:04 GMT

Thanks JAJ,

Must be really long pole for Dynaformer.

Here's to a couple more good stud years for Dynaformer.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

JAJ — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:02:37 GMT

Mary and Helsbelles,

My goal is certainly not to revered, lol! I would like to pass on some of my knowledge so that not only will you be a racing fan, but a more knowledgeable racing fan.

I never said horse racing was only about the bottom line. If it was, there would be no owners. None. Traditionally and historically, people have lost fortunes being race horse owners.

There is a very famous axiom that goes something like this: If you want to make a million dollars from horse racing, start with two million.

And, by the way, I do take offense to your implying that I have no heart and don't care about my horses. Nothing could be further from the truth.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

JAJ — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:50:18 GMT

Kathy,

A sperm count is taken with every dismount. As soon as the stallion dismounts, someone with a long pole with a cup on the end catches some of the fluid dripping, then literally runs it to the microscope to be looked at and evaluated. That is what the farm where my mare is kept does, and I am sure all the big farms in Kentucky do the same. Bottom line, though, is how many mares are getting in foal and can the (older) stallion physically handle it.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Kathy — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:26:02 GMT

Mary, I don't know about you, but when JAJ says something that irritates me, I let JAJ know about it. I do not revere him, but he does answer my questions. And no one seems to disagree with his answers; at least not his nonethical ones.

I didn't direct my last question to anyone specific, so would you know how stallions are tested when they get older. Is it live foal count or do they test sperm levels.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Mary — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:17:06 GMT

helsbelles, I agree with you. I don't know why he is so revered. It's a "business" mentality is just shocking. This is all about the ethical moral duty of a horseman to make sure that the horse issound and in good health. It's all about morality; the difference between right and wrong.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

helsbelles — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:10:01 GMT

DJC stated:

Better to have too much heart than too little. I find it much more distasteful to read the comments of some who can't resist an opportunity to pontiicate, lecture and show off his or her knowledge. While that knowledge deserves respect, what appears to be missing with people like this is heart. JAJ's stated position is that horseracing is about the bottom line--"it's a business." The reasons why racing has a declining fan base are numerous but the "it's a business first" attitude is a big one.

I completely share your view, and do not understand why JAJ is so revered on this blog... it's embarrassing.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Kathy — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:01:22 GMT

Isn't it interesting that you never hear about Andover Way and yet she was in the money 17 of 18 starts. Her grand sire was Ribot and I am taking a wild guess here, but she probably didn't instill calm in her foal Dynaformer in 1985. (I read where Ribot ended up staying in the US because the insurance companies caught wind of his nasty temper.)

And let us not forget, Dynaformer probably got his stubborness from the Nasrullah gene which is on his sire's side.

So, all in all, Dynaformer simply can not help himself.

At age 24, is Dynformer being tested for his sperm count? Or is Three Chimneys simply keeping track of his live foal count?

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Marigold — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 05:45:55 GMT

My. My! I've been away for a few weeks and during that time. this blog has taken a serious turn in the road. The X factor discussion, the gelding or possibility of gelding Nicanor (which is NOT going to happen) and all the rest of these discussions have become quite somber. Let's lighten up a little bit, at least.

Question: Where did the subject of Nicanor's being more aggressive after his win, come from? Please elaborate.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

HorseFirst — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 03:12:09 GMT

JAJ is going to be able to address this better, but Dynaformer's race record was decent enough. Then, his dam was a pretty good race horse from the looks of things on Pedigree Query. I'd say he was a good race horse with what appears to be a good pedigree. He was the best offspring of his dam who apparently was never bred to Roberto again. Next best offspring was by Seattle Slew. She was put to some top stallions but her best offspring seems to have been Dynaformer.

I think they let Dynaformer have his chance and he was good enough that he's still in Kentucky. Getting a Barbaro though probably surprised quite a few. He's about 24 now.

Today, stallions go to the shed far too early. The bet is that they will produce others like themselves or better. It's a gamble. You mentioned Big Brown and Curlin. No one knows if they can get runners or not. As JAJ explained, it takes a while to find that out.

In this day and age, seems any stallion that has a big name sire and cost big money in the sales will get a chance at stud, even if he only lasted three or four races.

Dynaformer offers an outcross to the Northern Dancer/Mr. Prospector bred glut of horses.

JAJ, did Roberto get his knees from Nashua? I haven't heard much about Nashua but he's also behind the dam line of Mr. Prospector and MP is known for soundness issues. Wondering if there's more than the Raise A Native side to that.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Mary — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:07:47 GMT

HorseFirst, if Nicanor ever runs in a stakes race, Kent Desormeaux is your man. He knows Nicanor.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Mary — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:02:30 GMT

HorseFirst, if you really believe in horse first, then JAJ needs to get out of the business. Some great horses bagan their career as four year olds and later. My grandfather raised horses, so I do know something about this, it's in my genes HA!HA!

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Mary — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:42:59 GMT

RIBOT had a dangerous temperament, Roberto did not.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Mary — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:31:40 GMT

Of course genetics is a crap shot. Secretariat didn't produce any great sons, except perhaps Risen Star, but his daughters were exceptional. He passed his genes onto his daughters, Weekend Surprise and Terlingua to name a couple. Seattle Slew and Weekend Surpirse produced A.P. Indy.

The odds are greater that if you have a winner like Barbaro, you will produce another one if you continue to breed Dynaformer to La Ville Rouge.

By the way, look at the pedigree of Summer Bird's female line. Beautiful.

re: Nicanor Works at Fair Hill; Entered at Belmont

Mary — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:15:30 GMT

The Jacksons really are not in this for the money; they are in it for the thrill of watching their strong healthy beautiful horse win a race or showing heart that he can win a race. Look at what they did for their beloved Barbaro. Owners don't do that very often. He was a lovely creature of God, and he was treated as such.

The problem with the industry today is that it's all about speed; with litle or no consideration for soundness which should be of the upmost importance. To me it is just morally wrong. Look at the pedigree of Big Brown and Eight Belles. I don't think you will ever see horses like Secretariat, Seattle Slew, Citation, etc. again. Perhaps soundness was more important to a breeder back then. Today, it is so much more about money. Look at The Green Monkey, money. For a simple layperson like myself who has done extensive reading on the subject, it is just appalling.

Big Brown had no chance of winning the Triple Crown,unsound. They just kept bandaging his wounds, like a soldier in battle, and sent him back out there over and over again.