Man o' War - Classic Video Footage

re: Man o' War - Classic Video Footage

christine — Tue, 17 May 2011 07:47:59 GMT

it would take several small miracles to create a movie about man o' war. as stellar as he was, the sweet retirement videos of him struck me as gentle and humble.love the way will harbut beams at him like his own child. i think of the old song "what a wonderful world"

re: Man o' War - Classic Video Footage

christine — Tue, 17 May 2011 07:42:33 GMT

well, it's another hopeful year for "red" i picked the red horse during the kentucky derby post parade this year just because he looked ready! there's alot of time between these comment posts; hope you big red fans out there will keep talking!! there isn't really anything else interesting besides our sweet horses God gave us

re: Man o' War - Classic Video Footage

christine — Tue, 17 May 2011 07:36:55 GMT

big red has been my hero since i was small and hidden in my heart thru my adult years. dreamt of becoming a jockey and gave up since women weren't welcomed with open arms at the time.strange tho, i was a nut about my weight ,130, or go off the deep end! i love the way the young boy tips his hat upon being introduced to big red and sheepishly takes a step back. wonder if anyone knows his identity?

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christine — Tue, 17 May 2011 07:29:51 GMT

when i found the treasure of man o' war videos i sat there and turned on the water-works. the music really helps bring out the little kid. when i made my last payment on a chestnut paint filly and studied her pedigree i about jumped for joy to see man o'war in there! i named her heavenlyholly not knowing there's one by that name in the quarterhorse book. my little blue-eyed gal has got some "fire" as her breeder puts it. i'm being so careful with her and i have a permanent position as "cheif rump scratcher" can't wait to get back to the house and read more about big red; my childhood hero. thank you so much.

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jimerpop — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 09:52:43 GMT

I have been a fan of Man O' War since I was a child. My grandchildren see movies about Seabiscuit and such and tell me about how great they were. I think it's about time some one did one on this amazing horse.No horse from anytime that I know of could beat him. Follow his pedigree and you will see all of the better horses of the day can be traced back to him. He will always be the King of the hill.

jimerpop

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Jan — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:00:14 GMT

Carly, Thanks for the wonderful video of Man O' War. I've had the pleasure of spending time with Tom Harbutt, son of Will Harbutt, MOW's faithful groom, getting tons of info on my favorite racehorse of all time. What a treasure to horse racing is this man. He knows ALOT about racing now and then. He showed me memorabilia at his home of MOW and later that day I saw MOW's old stud barn and walked into his stall. (all redone and I almost could feel his regal presence there) Thanks to the new owners for not tearing that down. It's aptly now called Man O'War Farm. Go see it and stop up the road to see Tom. He's a great guy.

As far as MOW vs. Secretariat, you can't measure apples and oranges. They were from 2 different ages-hard to compare. MOW, however, did carry a lot more weight than Sec. and raced 2 or 3 times in 10 days. Of course, racehorses were bred to last back then. Now we have so many breakdowns because of inferior breeding practices. Some of our modern day champs have terrible feet, legs, etc. and are still bred at high dollar, to reproduce these traits on. When these stars' offspring break down, who's to blame. You betcha, the breeders!

Anyway, I was living in Fremont, Ohio in 1970 and later found outthat MOW's trainer, Lou Feustal was living there at that time. Talk about an opportunity missed. I've loved this horse since I was a small child and I told my husband that since I'm older than he is and probably will die first, come to the Elysian Fields where all the heros go, and he'll find me riding Man O'WAr bareback, no bridle, and letting him run as fast as he pleases! How about that for heaven?

down

re: Man o' War - Classic Video Footage

fordcrazy — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:12:55 GMT

He was an amazing racehorse, but SECRETARIAT the better BIG RED will ALLWAYS BE NUMBER ONE HE IS THE GREATEST HORSE TO EVER GRACE THE SPORT OF RACING!!!

re: Man o' War - Classic Video Footage

Jacqui — Thu, 06 May 2010 02:08:08 GMT

@Barbara

We have to keep in mind that while Secretariat's times are faster than Man o' War's, Big Red was never fully extended. Also, it has been proven that the tracks in the 1920s were significantly slower than those in the '70s. Man o' War and Secretariat are both undeniably on a pedestal - no other horse besides Citation (MAYBE) could have ever touched them. For me personally, Man o' War edges out Sec because in a way he was never fully set free - an undiscovered champion, if you will. Both horses are the greatest thoroughbreds of all time; it is needless to compare them.

Beautiful rare footage of Man o' War, I must say! Poetry in motion. I too have heard the old timers say "there was never a horse like Man o' War." Secretariat may have come close, but there was nothing like the first Big Red.

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Bailey — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:33:27 GMT

I love Man O' War and wish that i could have been there when he raced. I believe that he should go down in history as undefeted because we all know that he could have easly beaten upset if his jockey had gotten him straitened out before the race had started. I have studied sevral horses and i have realized that even the gratest have never even been able to stand on the same ground as him. Though most people will not agree with me i think that even Secratariat dosnt measuer up to Man o' War.

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Russ — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:18:00 GMT

See my paper at 'Secretariat and Manorwar Revisited'. At 1.25 miles, all things being equal, both in top form, Sec defeats ManoWar by 1, probably two; and at 1.5 miles, Sec defeats ManOWar by 5 to 8. Sec's best competitor would have been Count Fleet, they would have been head to head at 1.5 miles. At stud, check your top 12 sires today; you will find Sec's name in at least three of them; as a broodmare sire, he ranks among the top. As far as horse stride, Sec's stride ranged from 24 to 26.5, possibly to 27. Manowar's body may have been slightly longer, Sec was stocky, not quite as long. The strides of Mano and Sec averaged about 25 feet, more or less. This can be found in Dorothy Ours' work on Mano. Overall, Sec was the bigger horse, stronger and would have been the better at longer distances. Add to that the big heart they found in him giving him an edge in endurance. Yea he lost a few, but was never in top form in any of those races; or the rider ran a terrible race, like his first race as a two. He won on fast surfaces, in the mud, on firm turf and on deep turf. It would be very difficult to find one better when he was in top form. Count Fleet would have been his best competitor, all things being equal, all in top form carrying 126 pounds. I have seen Mano's race against Barton already. I have a collection of classics.

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sail — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:54:39 GMT

Having lived ten miles from Belmont Park and fifteen from Aqueduct for the last forty five years I've seen all the "greats" race in person. Each one has been Outstanding. Forego carrying the world on his back come charging down the stretch. Secretariat all by himself in the Belmont. Easy Goer as a three year-old being beat by Sunday Silence and Pat Day riding too late twice. Angel Cordero and Jeorge V. Seattle Slew Holy Bull, Ghostzapper and on and on. On the other side of the tracks Nevele Pride and Stanley dancer when I was eight years old at the old (beautiful) Roosvelt Raceway. Niatross and Nialator at other metro area tracks. To say one was the best Is soooo tough. I remember being with a few friends on Affirmed Alydar Belmont day 1978. We pulled a bench up to the rail on the second floor grandstand about twenty yards to the wire with an

unobstructed view of one of the greatest stretch battles ever. to say one was better than the other I can't. THEY ARE ALL GREAT!!!!!!

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Shirley welch — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:51:42 GMT

I LOVE THE VIDEO !!! I AM THE OWNER OF ONE OF MAN O WARS DECENDANTS.... HIS NAME IS NU RIVAL, AND WHEN WATCHING THE VIDEO I CAN SEE THE SAME MOVEMENTS OF MY BEAUTIFUL RETIRED RACEHORSE ! ANOTHER OF NU RIVALS DECENDANTS IS WAR ADMIRAL SON OF MAN O WAR,

NU RIVAL IS NOW ENJOYING THE LIFE OF A PLEASURE HORSE IN COVINGTON PENNSYLVANIA.

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Sceaux — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:12:07 GMT

At age 9 (I am now 65) my parents and I were in Lexington and went to Faraway Farm. On the way we passed the grave of Domino, and when there saw War Admiral, War Relic (who looked like his dad) and MOW's lead pony. And the grave. I wish, somehow, it could have been left there. We then went to Calumet, and of course I loved it, but what happened to Faraway Farm and the original stud barn?

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EM — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:08:07 GMT

i just finished reading a fictional biography on Man o' War , called " Man o' War " by Walter Farley . He won 20 of the 21 races he ran in! AND, the ONE RACE HE LOST WOULD HAVE BEEN WON BY HIM HAD HE NOT BEEN BOXED IN! ALSO, because he was 16.2 hands high,he took a 29 foot stride. This is also because he had a way of " bounding" as he ran!

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TheOnlyOne — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:00:02 GMT

When I hear the name Big Red, there is only one horse fit to be called that: the original, the one, the only Man o' War.

I hear a lot about Secretariat's Belmont Stakes. Too bad he never reproduced those results! Lost to Onion! Lost to Prove out!! Lost to Angle Light (and Sham)!!! All in the same year!

Man o' War lost once.

Native Dancer lost once.

Secretariat couldn't beat Bold Ruler under 1 3/16ths. Guaranteed!!!!! Or Dr. Fager, for that matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Shamfan49 — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:50:55 GMT

txhorsefan, I find that just sitting in the shadow of the KHP Man O' War statue is refreshing mentally. What a great spot to just sit and think. Glad that no parking meters are installed there.

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ELLEN — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:15:31 GMT

Wow. What great footage. An amazing animal, and rightfully deserved the title of Horse of the Century. I've read is biography. A great story. He was the "Mostest Hoss"

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Maggie — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:54:09 GMT

Great footage. Does the Keeneland library or any other entity have more film of Man O' War? It would be great if someone made a modern documentary of him, like the ones of Seabiscuit. Not a Hollywood fictional account, but a good documentary...Maybe Ken Burns? Pass the word! Thanks

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Shamfan49 — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:09:59 GMT

On 7/21/2008 at 2:35 PM artgeek33's statement “All you have to do is do a little research to find that around 99% of champions (Horse of the Year) since the 70's have Man O'War in their pedigree.” Well, that sounds like a challenge to me. So using the list printed in Daily Racing Form’s 2007 “The American Racing Manual” which gives all Horses of the Year beginning in 1936 and ending with 2006. Everyone reading this surely knows who the 2007 Winner is. If not, a little research will reveal him unto you. Or better yet, go to Saratoga and watch the horses in the morning. I started with the 1970 Champion Fort Marcy, though a strict reading of artgeek33’s statement implies I should have started with Spectacular Bid, then making use of www. pedigreequery.com’s huge database I discovered the following:

1) Of the 32 Horses of the Year since 1970 (not counting duplicates), 26 (81.3%) descend in at least one pedigree branch from Man O’ War.

2) Of the 26 Horses of the Year since 1980 (not counting duplicates), 23 (88.5%) descend in at least one pedigree branch from Man O’ War.

3) The last Champion to not descend from Man O’ War, that I could find, was Secretariat’s fabulous gray filly, Lady’s Secret, who was the Horse of the Year in 1986.

I think my tally is accurate. If not please advise me of any errors.

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txhorsefan — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:06:53 GMT

Thank you for posting the wonderful video of my first love, Man O War. He died a month before I was born, so I didn't get to know about him until I saw a print of his portrait at a furniture store when I was about ten. It's been true love since then and I always enjoy learning more about Big Red, so those videos are very special. To Shamfan - the first time I was at the KHP and saw the statue, all I could do was bawl like a baby. I was just at the KHP last weekend and with the renovations being done there in preparation for the World Games in 2010, the first thing you are going to see when driving into the parking lot is the statue of Man O War. Well, at least that's the way it looks now, but it's very impressive that way. I love that place!

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starred chestnut — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:56:38 GMT

Whether he is "the mostest hoss" is w/o debate. I will not compare the race record w/Secretariat or any others--read A Legend like Lightning. No other great sired as many classic winners and champions as he did, with a book as limited. He also outlived his competitors, to 30 1/2 years; how is that for a great heart?

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Kay — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:51:05 GMT

The One, the Only, Man O'War....there never will be another like him. Thank you, Thank You for these videos, they are priceless!

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artgeek33 — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:35:40 GMT

Though all I ever heard growing up was the name Secretariat, Man O'War has always been and always be the dream in my heart. After first reading Walter Farley's Man O'War as a small girl, I fell in love with this magnificent animal and have been chasing him ever since. Though I relish in modern day champions such as Curlin ( I really really love him) and Big Brown, it is impossible for a horse to steal away Man O'War's place in my heart as both the greatest champion and an amazing stud. All you have to do is do a little research to find that around 99% of champions (Horse of the Year) since the 70's have Man O'War in their pedigree. Thank you for these videos. Props to Carly on youtube.com for continually putting up amazing race horse footage (I don't know where you get some of this stuff but your videos have been a favorite of mine for some time).

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Shamfan49 — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:45:56 GMT

All Man O' War fans should take a trip to the Kentucky Horse Park and see his grave. On the path from the parking lot to that graveyard is an exhibit comparing Man O' War's stride to Secretariat's. Wow!

Using stride length as the standard the greatest racehorse of all time must be Northern Dancer because he won the 1964 Kentucky Derby in 2 minutes flat on little Shetland pony legs. I think at stud he needed a ramp to reach his mares (or is he the one a hole was dug for his mates to stand in?), even so he just might be the most important stallion since Lexington, Man O' War's genetic contributions notwithstanding.

On another note, Man o' War's whipping Hoodwink by 100 lengths is one of those useless statistics bandied about by those who can't read a results chart. I have the copy of the chart of the 9/4/1920 Lawrence Realization from Page Cooper's and Roger Treat's book on Man o' War (page 213). It clearly notes that Hoodwink was an added starter and that "Hoodwink made no effort to keep pace with the leader". And why should he? All he had to do was finish the race to get the runner-up money. It didn't matter if he lost by a lip or a mile. What is astounding is that Man O' War set the record for 1 5/8 miles at 2:40 4/5 basically giving an exhibition. He had no rabbit to set him up and no competition pushing him to go faster. He did it all on his own in spite of Kummer's keeping him under restraint for most of the race. His record stood until Swaps lowered the mark to 2:38 1/5 on 7/25/1956 at Hollywood Park. Swaps' time is still listed as the North American Track record for 13 furlongs and it will probably never be broken as that distance is not run on dirt anymore to my knowledge.

Bill Nack wrote on page 324 of his must-read book "Secretariat: The Making of a Champion", that after Secretariat completed his immortal showing in the 1973 Belmont, clocker Sonny Taylor caught "him going the final eighth in 0:13 3/5, giving the colt a mile and five-eighths in an unofficial 2:37 3/5". This last furlong was with Ron Turcotte standing up in the irons trying to put the brakes on Bold Ruler's greatest son.

If you do visit the Kentucky Horse Park you can see the graves of War Admiral and War Relic plus others descended from Fair Play's masterpiece. As good as Man O' War was as a stallion, his Pappy was ultimately more accomplished. If Fair Play had not have had to play second fiddle to Colin, fans today might be more aware of his achievements. However, in spite of what many people think, all thoroughbreds do not descend from Man O' War, but a huge number do descend from Fair Play. Certainly all those descending from Man O' War automatically descend from his Dad, but Secretariat did not descend from Man O' War. But Bold Ruler's dam, Miss Disco, was by Discovery, a grandson to Fair Play in the male line via Display. Secretariat has had a tremendous impact on the breed through his daughters since such important stallions as Storm Cat and A.P. Indy are his grandsons.

Secretariat left no male line of note other than the one that led to the filly Take D' Tour, whose dad Tour D'Or was a Secretariat grandson through his sire, Medaille D'Or. Other than that filly, who cannot continue a male line, I don’t know of any candidates to keep Secretariat’s Y-chromosome in the gene pool. But it is the same as that carried by Phalaris from whom practically all modern thoroughbreds do descend in the male line. The only Man O' War male line that survived into the 21st century is that established by War Relic (buried near his Dad at the Horse Park). The most well known War Relic descendant today just might be the excellent stallion, the fabulous Tiznow, whose son, Well Armed, won the G-2 San Diego Handicap yesterday. Tiznow’ male line does not descend from Phalaris and ultimately the Darley Arabian. It can be traced directly back to the Godolphin Arabian. Man O' War appears in many female pedigree lines thanks to his son War Admiral.

Personally, I believe Secretariat was the greatest racehorse. But that doesn't mean I don't respect and admire the other great ones. Man O' War was certainly no worse than second, and his many fans 91 years after his birth have a most fearsome debate weapon in their arsenal - facts. However, Secretariat's many fans also have facts on their side. But there were many other horses in the good old days whose accomplishments on the track were quite formidable and that they still have supporters for the top honors so many years after their deaths only speaks to their greatness. That I like Secretariat best in no way diminishes or disrespects other greats such as Man O' War, Count Fleet, Citation, Bold Ruler, Swaps, Dr. Fager, Damascus, Nashua, Round Table, Kelso, Forego, Colin and so many others. This is why Blood-Horse capped their list at 100, there are so many. They were all wonderful, even Number 100 Blue Larkspur. It would be nice if Blood-Horse would reissue their masterpiece, but instead of capping the list at 100 include all the horses that received even 1 vote.

Another shameless plug for the Horse Park is that it is where the much missed John Henry is buried. It’s where Cigar is alive and well. The folks at the Horse Park treat him like the King he is. Go say hello.

While in the neighborhood take a trip to visit nearby Old Friends. You won't regret it. Plus it might help us keep all these silly arguments over which thoroughbred is the greatest in perspective. They are all great. Even the $5,000 claimer who just ran his heart out so I could cash a $2 win ticket as well as those he beat for helping make it all possible.

I have never met a horse whose nose I didn’t want to scratch.

Go to the track, where there are plenty of reasons to cheer and have a good time, and a new hero appears about every 25-30 minutes.

re: Man o' War - Classic Video Footage

Pam R — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:41:40 GMT

Like a few others here, I first read about Man O' War in Walter Farley's book. I try to buy any other books about Man O' War I can find. I would also like to say that I truly think Man O' War was the greatest. Secretariat ran on faster tracks and in my mind, simply lost two many races, proving he was beatable. He was no doubt one of the greatest ever, but there is a reason the Blood-Horse ranked Man O' War number 1 in their book.