Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

JOSIM — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:20:54 GMT

I'm pro-whipping. You wouldn't get some of our horses in the stalls let alone wining a race without using the whip. 75% of races in the UK are won by horses that get whipped so it proves it works. Obviously there need to be rules and there can be mistakes. But such incidents should not not be used as an excuse to ban the whip. Some horses need whipping.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Bossmare — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:06:28 GMT

Amen Lorie! My point exactly!

I would love to take a few of these people to a large hill w/ 12 others on bicyles, kick off the brakes, keep them in a pack and limit their steering and as an added bonus, give them a crop to swing.(most would fall off if you used a horse) Perhaps they may be a bit less critical.

Garrett,

When was the last time you were on a backside of a track? Vets are to check every horse that runs for soundness issues. If you are a horseman, all you have to do is watch some of animals going to the gate, or look at the ankles or tendons to realize they are questionable. Add that to lameness when trotting out and you have horses that should not run! Vets at the track do not read previous medical records on the horses they work on. But they still administer meds.They walk to a stall and ask "what are we doing to this horse"

If you ever spoke to a vet from the track and a vet that calls on a show barn, there are different standards as to what is considered servicably sound. The track is much more lenient...and the most dangerous. Jocks at Delaware Park have refused to ride horses that the vet gave "ok" to race. How many ankles do you think the vets "tap" a week so the pressure from joints w/ little or no synovial fluid left gets released to relieve pain so they can get one more race.

The vets are the only ones who can say yea or nay before they walk on the track. It's not dumping, it's stating a fact. The are there to protect the animal and god forbid....... even the human on his back.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Lorie — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:22:01 GMT

The Jockey also is assuming the horse he is getting on is capable of running around a track without him having to wrestle and impede other riders, again, I'm Garrett, I'm doing the same damn thing he did, the poor guy was hanging off the saddle and pulling with two hands on one rein, it isn't his job to have to teach a horse how to run around the track, at the end of the day he wants to go home to his family, same as all of us. I swear there are people who would prefer to read the headline " Jockey killed in racing accident", than horse spanked for being unruly, give me a break!!!!!

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

bossmare — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:32:39 GMT

Let's play devils advocate. Kent Desermeaux was abused by the public for pulling Big Brown up....... What would have happened if he had gone to using the whip on him and had found out he was indeed hurt??????

The jockey is in a precarious position. They are expected to trust the trainer and vet that their mount is sound enough to be at a dead run. If they pull up or don't ride a sore hard, they are scrutinized if lucky or penalized by the stewards. If the mount is just plain crazy, they are to ride it whether it is dangerous or not.

Yet if a trainer is suspended, his income keeps coming in. If a jockey is suspended, he has no income. Example Ricky Dutrow 15 days for the 70th infraction of medication - no loss of income. Jeremy Rose loss of income for 3 mos. about $225,000. That's a pretty hefty fine.

Do they make mistakes or make bad decisions? You betcha! And they should be disciplined.... not crucified or their lives destroyed.

There are much bigger issues that need addressed if racing is going to improve or stay alive.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Garrett Redmond — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:46:32 GMT

Quit dumping on the Vets for racing's problems. Vets do not send out cripples. Only trainers and owners can and do make such decisions.

A state-employed Vet is responsible for scratching horses that show signs of impairment before a race. But it is hard to detect an unsound horse while it is being ponied to the gate. If our horses were freed to canter to the start, many sore horses would be detected.

Also, we can be certain the vet might have some difficulty scratching a BIG trainer's horse.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Lorie — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:05:03 GMT

So your going to compare the unruliness of a child with that of a 1100 pound out of control horse? Is the brat child a threat to human lives around him? I wish you were on that horse and lets see how you would have handled that problem, maybe you can enlighten us as to how Garrett or any other jocks could control runaways when all the conventional methods are not working and your horse is ready to go over the rail, don't hold out on us, share your expertise in this matter with the jockeys of America!!!!

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

ruffian518 — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:53:43 GMT

You know Garret Gomez is a good rider, but! there are times when they get frustrated just like you and I,if he couldn't handle her ,he should not have been on her,In the Belmont in 2007,he couldn't handle Hard Spun either,but he didn't hit him,he wouldn't have dared!Just because hes a good rider, doesn't mean we should take what he says as gospel.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

normajean81258 — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:19:01 GMT

Garrett Redmond ~ I agree wholeheartedly!!

This is unacceptable behavior, I don't care who the Jockey is. These are 2 of my favorite Jocks, but this can not be acceptable behavior. The rule as it stands, WAS broken, and punishment must stand in these cases. If a horse is hit in the face, whether accidental or purposely, there must be penalties. The punishment is a way to deter these incidents from occuring. I don't know how I missed this incident, I don't miss much.... possibly because it didn't get the media "over" coverage that Rose's received. I know I'm going to hear, "but it's 1200 + lbs. of unruly!" BUT, when a child misbehaves, there are other ways to control the situation than smacking, beating or whipping, and the same goes for ANY animal.

It is Unnecessary Cruelity and needs to be further regulated if not banned, and not ignored!

I hate thinking, as I'm reading some of these comments, that some fans would have accepted Desourmeax, whipping Big Brown across the face?? Then maybe you'd not be so hard on him, and Big Brown. If so, I say that's disgraceful.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Bossmare — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:16:15 GMT

tb,

For the record.....

I heard all the testimony and saw the frame by frame of the race, he swung his arm out from the side to hit on the point of the shoulder, he uses a wide swing unlike most other jocks who use a straight down movement. He is to get schooled on his technique as part of his penalty.

It was agreed by the majority of commissioners that it was an accident.. All three hits were the same angle unfortunately the one hit the eye, the other two the shoulder. The bottom line it shouldn't have happened from a jockey of this caliber but it did and unfortunately it happens alot more at tracks than is reported.

What wasn't in the media...

The vet records stated the injury was superficial and was treated with only ointment.( a broken blood vessel, no lacerations) Rose was one of the only jocks at the track that was using the "peta certified whip" that had a wide foam end. Rose was not told at the stewards hearing he was being accused of hitting the horse twice in the face. That came to surface at the appeal. It was proven the stewards were wrong by the video.

But let's look at both of these situations....

GG's horse was lugging in, trouble steering, nearly clipped heels, Very similar to Rose's ride other than Delaware park had no rail on part of the track.

Stewards at Delmar try to put out the flames on bad PR for racing.

Delaware racing official orchestrates a bon fire and invites the media to feast on Rose. (perhaps the idea being it would take the microscope off Delaware park and all would be happy that someone at that track was sacrificed for what happened to Eightbelles.)

Rose accidently hits the horse while going for the win, Gomez hits the horse intentionally after the finish line.

Rose 6 mos suspension reduced to 3 mos suspension & $5000 fine.

Gomez exonerated........

My point is there are no set guidelines for infractions. Both of these were similar w/ very different penalties.

The highest fine ever for hitting a horse on the head previously was $200. Recently Victor Molino kicked a horse in the stomach on tv while unsaddling in the paddock due to it being scratched....30 day suspension/ $1000 fine. Two years ago a jockey at Delaware Park pulled a knife and held it to another jocks throat, threatening to kill him and another jock. He was taken out in handcuffs....60 day suspension.

( am I the only one questioning why a hit to the eye of a horse warrants penalty much larger than threatening someone w/a knife???)

.The stewards have all the power. The penalty can be whatever they want it to be.

Three blind stewards make a call that it's excessive whipping then turn around and penalize the same jock for not using the whip enough because a trainer or owner filed an objection. "Excessive" can be different on any given day along w/ the penalty.

Rose accepted responsibility for what he had done, however the penalty was so far off the chart compared to similar infractions. He was tried and found guilty by reportings that were exxagerated in the media before he had his hearing w/ the stewards.

Gomez also deserved to be disciplined but those stewards felt he had done nothing wrong.

When was the last time you read about a veternarian at the track being held responsible for a horse breaking a leg while racing.

Vets send cripples out everyday to get "one more race" out of them. They medicate not to heal but to deaden the pain. Those are the horses that break down, putting the lives of the jockeys and other animals in jeapordy. Whipping is wrong but jockeys who make mistakes w/ whips are not causing the demise of horses at the track . They are the unfortunates that are expected to get that win no matter what.

They have to appease the bettor, the trainer, the owner, the stewards and also the public.

Pretty high expectations to put on someone practicing one of most dangerous vocations in the world.

I would love to see the whip banned, but I also know that sometimes they are a necessary evil to save someones life.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Garrett Redmond — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:29:53 GMT

I appreciate the moderator will not allow this comment to be published,but I shall write it.

A bouquet to Becky Johnston for her report and analysis of the incident.

I was an apprentice jockey more than sixty years ago. So I know something about horseriding and raceriding. I've been on all manner of horses, good, bad and dangerous. I learned that while a few good cracks of a whip may teach a horse while it is being educated, flogging a horse in a race (or right after it) is just unnecessary cruelty.

Gomez hit the filly while still on the rail. Why? He could have eased her to the outside to make his run. She was trying to run on, so she resented a blow and swished her tail to show her annoyance. It also confused her and that began the mess. Ultimately, Gomez took revenge by hitting her along the head. Disgraceful behavior by a highly-paid professional.

However, the inaction of the stewards is inexcusable. They should be dismissed.

The cruelty of flogging goes on all the time. It revolts ordinary, sensible people: the kind we want at the races. Flogging people, for any crime, was abolished years ago. Isn't it time to abolish flogging horses?

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

tbpartnerperson43 — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:25:25 GMT

Bossmare, you can say what you want about the Rose situation but Rose's arm moved that whip forward more than once. But no matter, it seems that all was ok because he didn't actually blind the mare.

You had one good point though. Most race horses don't STEER. I was recently at a well known training track and went into the tack shop on the grounds. There were all these 5 1/2" bits hanging on the display board, and I wondered if there were enough warm bloods ponying horses to use them all. Does anyone know how to bit a horse so the bits do what they are designed to do? Look at picture after picture of running horses and you see inches of bit out of the sides of their mouths. In GG's defense, if he was pulling right, the bit probably had slid so far that the joint was pinching the mares lips on the right side and she lugged away from the pinching. Just an added bit of pain, and confusion, and a big problem for the jockey. About all you can do in that case, is crack the left shoulder and ease up on the reins till you can get the bit back in the mouth. It's a shame that the majority of trainers I've observed don't put the right width bits on their horses. It's also a shame that the same bridle goes with a rider in the morning, one time on a two year old, one time on an older horse, maybe even the same bit when backing a colt or filly. You have to wonder if they even adjust the cheeks. So, that's one thing that has been on my mind, even watching my partnership horses being started. Maybe a probably bitted horse wouldn't need much whip at all.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

bossmare — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:59:43 GMT

At Jeremy Rose's appeal there were a few "facts" that came out. When watching the video frame by frame it was PROVEN that the horse was hit once on the face. It was also proven that the angle that he struck was the same as when he hit the shoulder. It was a careless accident. Another fact was he did volunteer that he thought he had hit the mare before the stewards were involved. The most important fact was the mare's eye had dramatically improved in 24hrs from the impact and was allowed to go home the next day, however because of the frenzy from the media,she was kept 3 more days. She was allowed to race w/in a week from it happening.

The eye was fine and it had been a minor injury.

The trainer chose not to race her from fear of more bad publicity from the media.

The stewards were proven wrong- he had hit the mare only once.

Both Rose and Gomez are professionals, neither would hit a horse in the face intentionally, however they have a split second to make decisions at 35mph on a saddle the size of a bicycle seat on horses that most times have very little steering. Both horses were reported as lugging in. Rose's had almost clipped heels w/ another horse (one of the most dangerous incidents that can happen to a jock) and was near a section on the track that had no rail.

It's easy to second guess when you were not in either's shoes at the time. It's even easier to judge when you have never put a leg over a horse.

They are beautiful, wonderful creatures, that can also can be very dangerous especially while racing.

The good jocks like Gomez and Rose will pay for this a long time and hopefully be more careful.

Unfortunately trying to sacrifice two good jocks for mistakes or poor judgement will not change the many breakdowns at the cheap tracks that no one finds important to write about.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

jj — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:07:07 GMT

I've watched Rose's video a couple times. I guess maybe I just haven't watched the HD version everyone else has seen. I saw him hit the horse in the face but other than the obvious reaction the horse had it was hard to see Rose's actions (before or after).

I know that jockeys sometimes throw the whip up to show the horse it's there. Not close to it's face, not intending to hit it. Or even in a separate situation where they're reaching forward before whipping the back end;

Therefore I'm also of the opinion that with the 100 thousand different things that happen during a race - he could have easily accidentally done it. Reached too far forwards or changed his footing in the stirrups.

The owner and trainer were on Rose's side for heaven's sake and that seems like it ought to count for something.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Johanna — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:52:17 GMT

I've ridden for quite a few years. And I ask everybody: how would you have dealt with the situation? The filly was perfectly fine afterwards. Had he not gotten her attention, who knows if that would still be the case. After the race, she was in the middle of a pack of horses and still trying to lug in. Would you all rather read a blog about a three-horse pileup at Del Mar? Jockeys can't use their legs, and if the horse isn't responding to the reins, what else are they supposed to do?

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Heather Benjamin — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:29:22 GMT

It's not acceptable. I saw the race and she was a mess, but it's STILL not acceptable to hit a horse in the face. NO EXCUSE and GoGo needs to pay up and sit out for a while and think about it.

Times have changed.

You can talk old school all you want, but the public is tired of this crap. If you want racing to stop its downward spiral, we need reform. Even if you don't care about the horses (and some of you really don't seem to), your fun and games are OVER if the public completely turns against racing. (And it's pretty close to doing so now.)

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Amanda — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:10:07 GMT

The rules seem fairly clear - the jockey cannot hit the horse in the face with the whip. The rules don't say it's ok to whip the horse in the face as long as the rider has a good reason to do so. I can't believe that GG is such an inexperienced rider that he had no other option but to break the rules and smack the horse in the face. I'm sure this was not the most fractious animal he's ever ridden.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

tbpartnerperson43 — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:22:16 GMT

JJ I'll agree with everything you said.. but Rose did nothing 'by accident.' Watch the race.

However, the issue is this incident, and a horseman never strikes a horse across the face and teaches it anything but fear and resentment. Disgusting that we have this issue again. I'm sort of shocked that some 'riders' on here find such punishment an acceptable training tool.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

barbara — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:21:40 GMT

Becky, yes I went and found the chart. You could note the calracing.com entry discrepancy in your blog about the horse that you bet on in 05 that Gomez rode to a last place finish and indeed looks guilty of hitting in the head? And that possible guilt for a ride from 3 years ago does not make him guilty this past Sunday.

jj - You think what Rose did was an "accident"? Have you seen that video? At least Garrett really was honest.

As for Gomez's actions on the wild filly on Sunday at Del Mar - I agree that smacking a horse in the face is rarely helpful - but I can see why he would be at a loss as to how else to get her attention long enough to stop her from lugging in - even on the gallop out with other horses still at risk due to her unruly behavior. The stewards, even in these sensitive times, thought that the filly was acting in an unsafe manner so they gave Gomez the benefit of the doubt.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

goodwin — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:21:00 GMT

Yes, I have ridden rank horses, and no it NEVER occurred to me that it would serve any purpose to strike one in the face. What purpose does it serve? As a lesson? Please!

As an equine therapist, the first consideration given to a rank horse who is acting out of character is a PAIN ISSUE. All the face beating in the world is not going to quiet the animal if it is in distress.

Hitting a horse in the face on purpose should be used only as a last resort to defend yourself from an animal that is trying to crush you. That is only applicable if you are on the ground. There just is no excuse for GG's behavior. That kind of incident would be more common from a third rate jockey on a backwater track, not at the showcase, boutique track, Del Mar. Not very professional.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

jj — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:52:35 GMT

the general public isn't going to understand "She was unruly so it's OK that he smacked her on the face."

They're going to hear "he smacked her in the face."

If a horse isn't suited to race and causes danger to it's self and to the other horses in the race, much less the spectators, then maybe it shouldn't be racing? You wouldn't set a RACECAR out on the track with brakes that don't function, would you?

Regardless of WHO is riding and HOW the horse is behaving, HITTING IT IN THE FACE isn't going to make it behave better, yo. I mean people here are questioning the author's experience on horseback. To that, I question theirs!

Ever whipped a horse in the face? I admit I've never been stupid enough to hit a horse in the face. If you hit the horse in the face, that horse is gonna get p'oed. He probably put himself in MORE danger by doing that. There were other courses of action that he could've taken.

It's interesting that everyone came down so hard on Rose for something he did on accident

but forgive this rider for something he admits he did on purpose.

This rider did nothing to further the sport or help the case of the whip. I have a hard time defending the whip when someone goes and pulls something like this.

Make up your minds, people.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Jen — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:56:09 GMT

At calracing.com, #1 scratched but they didn't scratch the jockey!

The jockey listing is off by 1.

Pat Valenzuela was not in the race right? Calracing.com made the mistake.

Take out P Val and move the jockeys up one, and you get the correct rider on the correct horse. Gomez was on the #4.

#4 gets hit well after the horse has faded, before the finish. The horse has a white mask on and he does flinch...wow pretty sad!

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Maggie — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:24:21 GMT

Scratch what I just said about what the horse's name was and watnot. The PGM numbers and the PP numbers are all confusing. I understand most of it, by why the heck do they need different numbers? It's stupid...It's not only confusing to a new fan/ bettor of the sport, but it's downright ridiculous to follow when trying to connect a #3 PGM horse with it being a #6 PP, especially when Calracing or other notable resources for entries/ results mess up the details of the triners and jockies involved with the horses that ran in that particular race.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Maggie — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:19:03 GMT

I suggest everyone watches the head-on shot of the race at Calracing.com. That definitely shows how unruly she was from the start of the race and onto near the wire. Furthermore, and unfortunately, I watched it over and over again, Garret Gomez hit her twice near in the aforementioned area of concern, and her nose jerked to her left after the second strike. He tried to swerve her out to the grandstand side so that other horses could pass without incident, and she started to throw her head right at the wire. Now, I'm not merely picking sides; what I've justed stated is pure observation from what Calracing.com could provide me, even with the lack of actually witnessing or experiencing the incident myself. Garret Gomez WAS straining to keep her under control, and from experience on riding unruly horses that practically jumped at everything, it's quite an exhausting feat in the shortest amount of time. I don't excuse him for raising the whip near her head, but he did run out of options when nothing else seemed to work. With that said, let me continue further...Here are a series of questions for everyone to try and answer me: why now? Why the stewards suddenly coming forth after about THREE YEARS of that happening? Why did it take so long for them to step forth? Is it because Garret Gomez was the leading jockey last year and is continuosly being one of the top jockies this year, and they "want" something? It just doesn't make sense...I wonder what's REALLY behind the truth of their taking so darn long to actually show how much they are the so-called fair and balanced "judges" of the sport. If something like that happens, it should be reported immediately, not three or more years after the fact when the past is in the past and no one knew anything about it. Of course, it should be brought into light, but after the Jeremy Rose incident and after such a friggin' long time? How incompetent and unprofessional is that? Now, that's messed up...With their inability to act accordingly to their stewardly duties and responsibilities, it makes me not trust their ability to oversee the races and the safety of the horses and jockies involved.

By the way, the horse's name is ARE YOU LOOKIN and the trainer is N. HINES.

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Tiznowbaby — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:50:45 GMT

Haven't seen the race but have read a couple of descriptions, including the jock's explanation to the stewards. Here's my question. Why was such a poorly schooled filly racing? I know she's fresh from Argentina, but I'm thinking she didn't step off the plane onto the track. Didn't they have some idea about her?

re: Another Slap in the Face to Our Equine Stars

Becky Johnston — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:41:58 GMT

Barbara, I referred you to calracing for the video only. My source was my own two eyes as I watched this race because I had wagered on this horse and then watched the replay over and over. I conversed with a representative of the CHRB within hours of this race. I don't know Nic Hines and have no knowledge of his "trash talking".

The DRF shows this at the order of the horses going to post with riders:

Class: 40000 [3U,NW2L] Purse: $25,000 Distance: 7 Furlongs

P# PP

2 1 Woodlands Ruler (CA)Farina T 122

3 2 High Z (CA) Castanon A L 122

4 3 Wildberry Road (CA) Gomez G K 122

5 4 Are You Lookn (KY) Nakatani C S 124

6 5 Vermeil (KY)Court J K 124

7 6 Thunder Maker (KY) Valdivia, Jr. J 122

Equibase says this of their results for that day

HOLLYWOOD PARK - November11, 2005- Race 1

STARTER ALLOWANCE - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward (NW2 L) Claiming Price: $40,000 - $0

Seven Furlongs On The Dirt

Purse: $25,000

Plus: $3,000 CBOIF - California Bred Owner Fund

Plus: $400 Other Sources

Available Money: $28,400

Value of Race: $25,400 1st $15,000, 2nd $5,000, 3rd $3,000, 4th $1,500, 5th $500, 6th $400

Weather: Clear Track: Fast

Off at: 7:08 Start: Good for all

EQUIBASE

Video Race Replay

Pgm Horse Name (Jockey)

7 Thunder Maker (Valdivia, Jr., Jose)

3 High Z (Castanon, Antonio)

6 Vermeil (Court, Jon>

5 Are You Loolcn (Nakatani, Corey)

2 Woodlands Ruler (Farina, Tony)

4 Wildberry Road (Gomez, Garrett)

I've already posted the running line from Equineline and the sixth place horse. If you would like to purchase the three reports that I have already purchased that cannot be reposted due to copyright issues please do so. All say Garrett Gomez was riding this horse as I did.