Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

Saratoga AJ — Wed, 27 May 2009 15:28:46 GMT

Gun Bow,

I am pleased to see the JCGC included in the races where you may not use the winner's name again, along with the triple Crown and big 2 BC races. The JCGC was always the championship race for the year until 1983...what the BC Classic is since.

And good old Kelso won it 5 straight years. Can you imagine if a horse won the BC Classic 5 straight years?

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

GunBow — Tue, 26 May 2009 23:01:58 GMT

Saratoga AJ + Becky;

interesting info on the usage of names. Thanks

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

sweet terchi — Tue, 26 May 2009 22:56:51 GMT

Saratoga AJ & Becky Johnston - thanks for the info, very much appreciated. Kelly C. on another blog found the filly on pedegreequery which I guess is a suspect site, that claimed she is by Statue of Liberty out of Armagh, which then someone found that Armagh never had a 2008 foal. Anyhow, I really enjoy reading all the comments. Thanks again

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

Becky Johnston — Tue, 26 May 2009 16:17:30 GMT

Sweet Terchi, yes the name Ruffian has been retired or permanently reserved with the Jockey Club and would not be used again. Those same rules don't necessarily apply in other countries.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

Saratoga AJ — Tue, 26 May 2009 15:20:58 GMT

sweet terchi:

According to the Jockey Club Registry, the section below outlines the rules on names that answers your question:

NAMES THAT CAN NOT BE USED:

"# 12. Names that are currently active either in racing or breeding (see Rule6(E));

# 13. Names of winners in the past 25 years of grade one stakes races;

# **14. PERMANENT NAMES: The list of criteria to establish a permanent name is as follows:

**a. Horses in racing's Hall of Fame;

b. Horses that have been voted Horse Of The Year;

**c. Horses that have won an Eclipse Award;

d. Horses that have won a Sovereign Award (Canadian Champions);

e. Annual leading sire and broodmare sire by progeny earnings;

f. Cumulative money winners of $2 million or more;

g. Horses that have won the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes, The Jockey Club Gold Cup, the Breeders' Cup Classic or the Breeders' Cup Turf; and

h. Horses included in the International List of Protected Names."

Since Ruffian won two Eclipse Awards (2 & 3 Yr old Filly Champ), and is the Hall Of Fame, nobody should be able to use her name again. Unless she's not a race horse!

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

LDP — Tue, 26 May 2009 09:59:12 GMT

barb,

thanks, for the reference. Interesting that they didn't allow geldings to run in the belmont. Still it's been 53 years that geldings have been allowed to run, and only one has done it. I think it would still be a great feat to pull off if MTB won. Though now i'm wondering how many geldings competed in the Belmont during the 53 years they've been allowed.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

sweet terchi — Tue, 26 May 2009 02:01:43 GMT

GunBow or Saratoga AJ, I have a left field question, which I know one of you has the answer. Aren't names of notable horses "retired"? There is a 2008 filly who has the name RUFFIAN. I was under the impression that names could not be used again in the original form.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

barb — Tue, 26 May 2009 01:35:57 GMT

LDP...Part of the reason only 1 gelding has won the Belmont is that they didn't allow geldings in the race from 1919-1956. From reading your posts I know you are eager to learn all you can about racing and I would recommend you get The Thoroughbred Times Racing Almanac. It is FULL of history and other information that I'm sure you would LOVE. It comes out every year and is about $20.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

Tue, 26 May 2009 01:15:25 GMT

You're right, Gun Bow...you said "among the best", not "the best". And not better than Ruffian. I stand corrected!

I actually started out a big fan of Carry Back...he was the first horse I followed and got me into racing back in 1961. He did beat Kelso twice and it took track records both times. Kelso beat him about 6 or 7 times though. My respect for Kelso grew as he just kept beating all the new stars every year. Each year's new hot 3 yr olds, each years new handicap stars. He beat them all.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

GunBow — Mon, 25 May 2009 21:40:30 GMT

Saratoga AJ:

I never said Zenyatta is better than Ruffian. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?

I stated that on synthetics I think Zenyatta is virtually unbeatable. However, that is in reference to the horses currently in training. Ruffian, or Secretariat for that matter, aren't alive anymore, so they couldn't run against and beat Zenyatta.

I am too young to have seen the Kelso-GunBow wars, and am invious that you got to see both those great horses in person. no, there will never be another 5-time Horse of the Year; there will never be another Kelso.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

LDP — Mon, 25 May 2009 16:48:09 GMT

Wow, i know that 85 is only like 24 years, so not exceptionally long but still if MTB wins the Belmont he'd be only the second gelding to pull that feat off. Wow. Thanks Tiznowbaby and Citation, i wasn't alive then, so i wouldn't have know. Thanks again.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

Saratoga AJ — Mon, 25 May 2009 15:41:57 GMT

Gun Bow:

Better than Ruffian? I don't think so.

BTW, when I was 17 I was fortunate enough to be among the 65,000 at Aqueduct on 9/7/64 when the mighty Kelso ran down your namesake in the $100K Aqueduct H'Cap in one of the most memorable races of my life.

Kelso had lost to GB in July by 14 lengths in the Brooklyn H'Cap. Word was out that 4 time HOTY Kelso was finished at 7. Not so. He beat GB that day at the Big A, in one of the most emotional scenes I ever witnessed at the track. Racing was alive and well in the 60's.

www.youtube.com/watch

GB beat Kelly by a nose 3 weeks later in the Woodward, then Kelso crushed GB in the 11/11/64 Washington DC Int'l when Kelly ran the fantastic 2:23.4 1 1/2 miles on turf (11 days after setting the World Record 3:19.1 in the JCGC...a record that still stands today)....and HOTY #5.

www.youtube.com/watch

It was a great rivalry. But Kelso prevailed just like he did over every other challenge by a who's who of the 1960-65 time period.

We'll never see another 5 time HOTY ever.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

sweet terchi — Mon, 25 May 2009 14:55:57 GMT

I replayed the tribute video to Zen a couple of times, a masterful work of art, and a fitting tribute to a magnificent mare.Thank you Partymanners

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

Citation — Mon, 25 May 2009 14:23:45 GMT

LDP, Creme Fraiche in 1985 was the first and only gelding to win the Belmont.

re: Milady, Your Lady, Our Lady.....

Tiznowbaby — Mon, 25 May 2009 14:21:37 GMT

LPD, the last gelding I can remember winning the Belmont was Creme Fraiche. (early eighties?)