Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

dennis penner — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:36:12 GMT

i have trained a few race horses over the years all i know is the hot temperd ones definitely make more mistakes on the track when racing. a level head goes a long way on race day

All in the Attitude

The Five-Cross Files — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:01:55 GMT

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All in the Attitude

The Five-Cross Files — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:59:56 GMT

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re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

JordanA — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:07:40 GMT

Bad leg keeping me up and waiting for the next Earthquake.

Sopiekea, you were discussing intelligence and class not temperment. I referenced a BH article in which Lukas and Blasi basically said it's trainability and learning by repititon and also personality. They and all of the other race horse trainers I have read about or heard speak say the same thing. I'll take the word of Wayne Lukas over a non trainer any day. And you know I bet if you ask a RACE HORSE TRAINER, they could probably tell you that they do have input as to whether the horse is a biter. Any trainer worth their day rate will try their darnednest to break them of that bad habit and my guess is if it interferes with them running and winning races, that horse won't be in the barn for long. I said on here I'm a handicapper but I still know a lot of trainers and owners and listen when they speak.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

sophiekea — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:08:42 GMT

I agree that trainers are very important but we are talking temperment here. A trainer doesnt decide if the horse is going to be a lover or a biter, thats the horses decision mostly. I've seen some nasty horses win big and some sweet ones too. But temperment has nothing to do with intelligence or class. Cost of the horse isn't a factor either in determining class. A nice horse is much more enjoyable to work with but that doesn't mean he is going to make anymore money than the bad tempered horse. Its just about what they do when they hit the track. And crazy fired up doesn't mean that it has more of a competitive winning attitude.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

JordanA — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:08:29 GMT

Sorry for the misspells, took something for the fractured leg and kidced in too soon.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

JordanA — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:02:27 GMT

Schabelli, I thanked jmewill for his support on the non horse racing input, BUT I AGREE with you on Big Brown and the shoe, even Iavarone has backed off on that and Dutrow and Kent never agreed in the first place. Of course this was addressed ad nauseum on Jason's blogs. Sophiekea, I agree with you somewhat but a lot of the big name trainers say horses have personality and trainability like Katsan said. Scott Blasi and Wayne Lukas were both quoted in an article on the blood horse Mr. Ed I think it was and Wayne said something to the effect of there isn't a lot of dumb horses but a lot of dumb people (not an exact quote but you can search for it) his and Blasi's theory being it depends on who worked with them before the got to them how well they do. Blasi was big on the personality factor just like a lot of horesemen I've listened to.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

sophiekea — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:12:29 GMT

I think class and intelligence can tell you more about the potential a horse has at making money at the track. If the horse knows when its time to work thats a good thing.

I know a horse that is so laid back you wouldn't think he could do much, but get him to the track and he is a professional winner. No problem in the paddock, gate, etc...

Like many athletes sometimes the loud mouth big talker isn't the winner. Its the intelligent one that lets his work do the talking that gets it done.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

schabelli — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:37:37 GMT

jmewill,

There was no nail "stabbing" Brownie in the foot in the Belmont. He came back with no soreness in the foot whatsoever. A close examination revealed no physical problems at all.

The fact of the matter is that Brownie broke out into the 2 horse and caused the shoe problem for himself anyway. His inexperience and timid nature caused him to spook at the start. In all previous races he had everything go his way from the time they opened the gates until the race was over. A starter on the track is not uncommon, I have seen many a low class claimer who didn't spook in the same situation.

All the problems Brownie encountered in the Belmont were of his own making. Kent D. took alot of flack for "his ride" when in reality he did a great job of trying to control a horse who clearly was having an off day.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

Alan — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:09:55 GMT

My background is having trained wild and domestic mammals for the entertainment industry. Temperment is decided by both environmental stimuli and genetics, both breed/species related and (recent)ancestry (and realize that individuals in a litter, and full siblings among hoofed animals may dramatically vary as to characteristics of aggression, timidity, and a range of social or anti-social behaviors.

A racehorse is not raised to become a pet, companion, or film star (a Trigger or Champion, for examples), so a disposition that is amenable to training, retains what is taught, and can be safely controlled or handled by humans are the fundemental requirements.

Understand that the police and military will not accept vicious or overly aggressive German Shepards for guard and attack work--the ideal temperment for training acceptance for these demanding jobs, is a happy, rock-solid, afraid-of-nothing type animal that would be the perfect companion and family pet.

Substandard temperment in racehorses is accepted because winning races overides all other considerations--hence the number of neurotic thoroughbreds in the racing game.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

Obmar — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:26:11 GMT

Tesio believed that quick or even bad temper is often allied to racing

ability, as in the case of St. Simon. But when it is an expression of

lack of courage, it should of course be avoided. In any case, he preferred

nervous energy to sheer strength as an ingredient of championship ability. He believed that a horse’s racing ability is the direct result of inherited

nervous energy, and that the energy pattern follows a cycle over several

generations, rising to a peak, then falling, and then remaining dormant

for a period before beginning to rise again.

Untrainable as a Whole Horse

Dr. John Lee gelded five-time Horse of the Year Kelso when he was training him as a two-year-old. That has been well known for years. Carl Hanford, who took over Kelso’s training at three, told me at Aiken, South Carolina, one winter that he never would have been able to train him as an entire horse:

“Watch him, he’s coming on the track right now, and he throws these numbers at you as a gelding.”

We were leaning on the outside rail and, as exercise rider Dickie Jenkins moved him out of a trot, “Kelly” propped and buck-jumped for a quarter-mile before leveling off into a smooth gallop.

A Terror in His Stall

It took me more than a decade to find out who cut John Henry, the two-lime Horse of the Year While he was in my office one day, asked Dr. Alex Harthill in jest “Is it true you gelded John Henry?” “Yes,” he replied defen sively, “and he needed it worse than any horse I've ever seen. He was a holy terror in his stall—would eat you alive, walk around his stall on his hind legs like a dog, and hang his front legs over his stall screen. Do every common thing he could to threaten you or hurt you. You’d never have heard of him if he hadn’t been gelded.”

Just a few example.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

jmewill — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 02:40:50 GMT

to Schabelli:

Are you certain Big Brown's Shoe hanging of his hind foot might have had a tiny bit to do with his undoing in the Belmont? You try runnin with a nail stabbing you in the foot for a mile and a half and let me know how that works out for ya????

to Jordan A: I am not putting them down but I think alot of them don't understand some of the aspects of the racing game and I won't pretend to be an expert on their turf.

Mr. Ed said it best"A HORSE IS A HORSE OF COURSE..." UNLESS IT'S A RACE HORSE. I don't think in their racing state you could get many race horses around a show ring without any problems(without being retrained to do it of course) but the showe horses that will run b*lls out for a mile are most likely few and far between.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

JordanA — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:06:33 GMT

jmewill, thanks for the support but I see the eventers, drafters, shower's, rescuers are just as obstinate as the horses they're talking about. I miss the old trainer that used to post and a couple of the owners. I think we have maybe one or two racetrackers now.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

JordanA — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:05:04 GMT

Lance, I have a friend who was at the sale when The Green Monkey was purchased. He had a superfast work under tack then it became a p***ing

contest between the head Dubi and the Demi. Notice Coolmore wasn't at FT since the Dubi's bought it? Just a bit of a feud going there according to the rumor mill.

re: Don't Pet Her, She's a Thoroughbred

katsan — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:55:01 GMT

Bellweather, have you taken the trainers test?