Is This a Broodmare?

Turns Out She's a Racehorse

The Five-Cross Files — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:50:17 GMT

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re: Is This a Broodmare?

Huh — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:19:39 GMT

This one is a broodmare because she's only 5 years old so she like every other female horse should be given her chance in the breeding shed.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Julie L. — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:46:38 GMT

To Perplexed - If we all thought that way then we wouldn't be breeding horses. There have been other good geldings running, The Tin Man, Better Talk Now, though they may not be in the category of John Henry they are still top racehorses and how about McCann's Mojave and Lava Man. I could go on but enough said.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Perplexed — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:05:22 GMT

For every John Henry how many gelding have their been in the decades since his birth who have had no talent and ended up at slaughter or other less than glorious fates?

Always look at the realities and thats the fact you will in all likelihood be losing money while breeding unwanted horses

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Julie L. — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:47:03 GMT

Sometimes a chance even a longshot is all you have, how about Ole Bob Bowers with Once Double neither was much on the track but together they came up with John Henry. Always look at the possibilities.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

the lock — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:26:28 GMT

I like the dam's bloodlines very much and I would like to see her breed to Powerscourt, at $10,000.00, the best grass sire/cost bloodlines alive. This mare with her bloodlines crossed with those of a horse who crossed the finish line twice first in the Arlington Million would do well. The Sadlers Wells blood in Powerscourt would add a lot of classic stamina to the brilliance of Native Dancer, inbred on the dam's top-side, with the outcross of Princequillo through his grass loving champion son Prince John on the bottom side. This breeding match-up would work very very well.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Kayte — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 15:41:24 GMT

considering that, if I were to purchase this mare, it would from the prospective of a person that would be breeding to race, to commercially sell. Looking at her confirmation, she doesn't seem to be that bad looking of a horss. She seems to be a strong mare, like Scot has mentioned comes from a strong family (at when you look at physical strength). Pedigree-wise, yes it is junk, but she also doesn't have some common names in her pedigree, other than Mr. Prospector and Blushing Groom (the biggest names that I can draw from what I saw). At least that allows me some leeway to breed to stallions with more common names in their pedigrees- Deputy Minister, Bold Ruler, anything that may add strength in the foal that she is lacking.

Start-wise, I would rather a mare that may have started or not started at all since I would be hoping that maybe there was something she never used on the track that will pass onto her foals. Some of the best broodmares of our times would probably been listed Craig's List or whatever, since they didn't have the race statistics that you all are saying a good broodmare should have.

At $1000, I would risk that (and yes despite the junk pedigree, the fact her owner listed her on Craig's List, all the fees). Yes I may be out in the long run, but you never know- that $1000 dollars and random search engine find could be a massive bargain in the end. If it's a loss, sell her as a trail prospect. If she proves a good broodmare, then like I said, her sell price was a bargain.

"Don't judge a book by a cover"-- saying goes for junk mares as well.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Horsemen — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:13:06 GMT

The pedigree is junk. Save yourself and get a decent mare that has a shot of producing something. You can't give these mares away, so $1,000 is too much. Re-train her to be a good trail horse for someone, or produce a sport horse and send her down that path.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Greg R — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 05:44:31 GMT

With our current economy broodmares prospects must have class, class, class. You cannot afford to own a non black type mare. And you can get them for under 5 grand if you do the work.

Foals from this mare will not bring the stud fee in a sale. and the cost to get a mare in foal to first start for a homebred would be cost prohibitive.

The extra 4 grand to get a stakes mare would pay dividends. This marte will bankrupt you.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

BTJake — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:00:20 GMT

A mare like this one would only make sense if you have a particular stallion in mind for her. Otherwise...as many have said, there is far too much downside and risk to gamble on a mare whose only attributes are some familiar names deep in her pedigree.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Perplexed — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:07:25 GMT

She has no pedigree and is for sale for one grand on Craig's List.

Doesn't that about say everything there needs to be said about her potential broodmare value?

By the time board, stud fee's, vet bills, blacksmith bills, van fees, sales commissions or training fees on the resulting foal are tallied you are going to be going to be in deep. If this is all the mare you can afford you shouldn't own a horse, if you can afford more go spend 10 grand and get something marginally better where you aren't starting out so far behind.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Chris — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:57:16 GMT

Although I haven't actually looked at this mares pedigree, seeing the names Blushing Groom and Prince John near the same pedigree makes it hard for me not to suggest a L'Enjoleur line sire. Not too many good ones out there of course (or even alive for that matter), but if your looking to breed inexpensively to race, this cross has produced a 3 time track record setting Grade 1T winner of over $1 Mill in "Down The Aisle". Just a thought !!!

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Karen in Indiana — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:15:57 GMT

What about Blumin Affair to get some Dynaformer in there?

re: Is This a Broodmare?

cybertron_log — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:00:27 GMT

If I had the funds and ability and everything else to be a small-time breeder, I'd take a chance on her. The least she can do is produce a reliable money earner, which is something breeders-to-race would want.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

lespedeeza — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:57:30 GMT

Being a breed to race little breeder, her commercial value is not so important to me as her soundness and that of her siblings. If she is the body type I like and has a reasonably big frame I would absolutely take a chance on her. On paper a horse like Turgeon would make a nice cross. (this girl can't justify the plane ride for that to happen...)

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Julie L. — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:41:59 GMT

For a breeder with only a handful of broodmares I think that she could be worth the chance. Her sire is a stakes winner from the Mr. Prospector line and her broodmare sire is by the wonderful Blushing Groom so the potential on breeding alone is there plus her full siblings have obviously shown hardknocking ability and if only looking for a good allowance runner then I say take the chance but you must find a stallion within her value range that would also bump her up. Cat Thief is a good choice which was Rachel's selection but maybe Doneraile Court being a stakes winner and a son of Seattle Slew so infusing the Bold Ruler line would be good and he is at a reasonable fee right now and is throwing some good winners and stakeswinners.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Rachel — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:31:31 GMT

She is the kind of mare I would think of to produce my own runners with the dream of the "golden" cross. Her tail-female line is strong in durability, from 8 to 56 starts in the five generations I looked at briefly, and 3-10 or so wins. Plus her immediate family is solid as you mentioned.

I'd send her to Cat Thief, I think he's a huge value with his pedigree (which i love) and pretty good work ethic babies, would improve her without spending hardly any money at all.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

al — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:30:20 GMT

Breeding to this mare to race is too costly an experiment and likely to fail.

Breeding to sell is employing the greater fool theory. Yes, a greater fool can come along and give you a profit, if you can find that fool.

Better advice is to buy her only if you are willing to own her, if not for the long haul, stay away.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Anna — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:59:22 GMT

Surgeglobal's pedigree is very solid, I think. Especially if you are wanting a sound, honest racehorse. She has all the endearing qualities! Prince John, Princequillo, and Nashua are much closer than they usually are in speedier, "classic" pedigrees. She'd be good with any sort of stallion, I think. She's got enough versatility for the dainty princes of Kentucky, or for Duckhorn in Pennsylvania. Go for it :)

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Freespirit — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:02:21 GMT

I think for a small time breeder with limited capital, this mare would definitely be worth giving a chance. The fact she had there full siblings that could run as they did is a major plus in my book.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Huh — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:45:15 GMT

I'd go with the Johannesberg/Mr. Prospector Cross, which produced Scat Daddy. And yes she probably would be a good broodmare.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

Sabrina — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:44:23 GMT

In my opinion, with a pedigree like this, you need to infuse class into the pedigree, but also keep the durability element of the family in tact. Her best siblings are, like her, heavy on Prince John. I would look to re-inforce that by adding more Prince John. A great place to find class, general racing ability and more Prince John is Alphabet Soup.

The cross gives you Prince John 4sx5dx7d

Holy Bull is another who can infuse class into this mare but also provide versaility. Tartan blood loves a re-introduction to itself, although Holy Bull tends to like it in the 6th and 7th generation. This mare provides that.

You get Rough'n Tumble 4sx6d, Aspidistra 4sx6d

The other thing I like about the Holy Bull cross is that he's heavily linebred through female ancestors while this mare is more male oriented. Holy Bull tends to balance that out.

As a general aside, although I like certain elements of this mare's pedigree, I don't feel like she's a safe bet at producing runners.

It's always a tad worrisome to take a chance on the least talented member of a hard knocking but not brilliant branch of a family (Nellie Flag) that's been under-performing for quite some time even in it's best branches.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

GOLD STAR FARM — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:14:35 GMT

BECAUSE A MARE HAVE A SUSPECT OR NOT A STRONG PEDIGREE, A GOOD RACING RECORD WINS/MONEY WON IN HER CAREER.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN A MARE IS NOT OR CAN BECOME A GOOD BROODMARE THAT PRODUCE GOOD, STRONG QUALITY RACE HORSES.

IF YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND RESEARCH THEIR PEDIGREE THRU OUT

PAST THEIR 5th LINE, YOU SOMETIME FIND VALUE AND STRONG BLOOLINES THAT HAVE PRODUCE OUTSTANDING HORSES. YOU DON'T KNOW ALL THE INSIDE INFORMATION ON THE MARE; SHE COULD HAVE BEEN SICK OR INJURED OR SOMETHING HAPPEN TO HER; THAT'S WHY SHE WON'T HAVE A GOOD RACING RECORD OR QUALITY STARTS OR PLACING.

ANY MARE CAN PRODUCE A STAKE WINNER IF NICK TO THE RIGHT STALLION AND HER FOALS/RUNNER IS IN CAPABLE HORSEMANSHIP HANDS!!!!

THIS MARE SURGEGLOBAL, HAS MR. PROSPECTOR IN HER TOP MALE SIRE LINE AND HAS BLUSHING GROOM ON HER

MARE SIRE LINE. THIS MARE IF NICK TO ANY NORTHERN DANCER SIRE LINE STUD OR DOUBLE IN THE MR. PROSPECTOR SIRE LINE, WILL PRODUCE A DURABLE OUTSTANDING FOAL, THAT CAN RACE IN THE GRASS, POLYTRACK OR DIRT.

I BUY HER ANYDAY, DON'T SHY AWAY OF A MARE THAT CAN PRODUCE A GUSHER!!!!

ALWAYS VET HER OUT FIRST AND IF SHE HAS THE LOOKS AND A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH; THIS MARE IS YOUNG THAT WILL MAKE THAT INITIAL INVESTMENT($1,000)LOOK LIKE YOU HIT THE LOTTERY!!!

EDGARD MORALES SR.

GOLD STAR RACING STABLE, LLC.

re: Is This a Broodmare?

WT — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:42:49 GMT

Sire and broodmare sire not commercial enough to breed for the sales, at least in KY. Maybe be OK if bred to a popular new sire. However, I'd be more inclined to want her if I bred to race since the family seems to be sound.

Is This a Broodmare?

The Five-Cross Files — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:17:22 GMT

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