Is This a Broodmare, Take II

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Julie L. — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:32:12 GMT

Must say that I would need to see this mare's vet records to see just what is going on. Her breeding is impeccible and I like her size, you said she was 17 hands so with that said I would still be interested in the possiblity of getting foals out of her and would be looking at the Seattle Slew/Bold Ruler, Mr. Prospector/Raise a Native and Dynaformer/Roberto line stallions also Relaunch/In Reality line but would stay away from anymore Northern Dancer influence. I too love Deputy Minister as a broodmare sire.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Dawn — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:33:57 GMT

I just found this blog and I think its great! I have a question about broodmares....How conceivable/affordable would it be for someone trying to get a start in this business, to claim a filly/mare that shows talent and has a decent pedigree?

Scot's reply: Great question! Later this month, we'll take a look at claiming fillies/mares for breeding stock.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Chris — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:04:40 GMT

I think she'd be worth a shot for $7,500. But, I would'nt pay sticker price for anything.

Aside that we all know that there have been some cases of a family line not producing anything notable for 2-3 generations and then all of a sudden BAM !! And probably simply because someone else finally did there homework on bloodlines.

I think you just have to do your homework and pick the right sire for the mare's lines that you have and not just pick one whose a commercial success or a more popular name.

Someone like "Fast Play" might be right for this one.

With Deputy Minister being from the Northern Dancer line I still think you should go with a stud who has the old faithful perfect match in Buckpasser somewhere as close up as you can get him.

We all know the successes of that cross either way. And YES it's still working in todays generations. Just take another looksee at "Touch Gold's" pedigree if you don't think so.

Also...according to Fast Play's (SRO), He and a Deputy Minister mare have already produced a (PAN-I) S.W.

Just a thought !!!

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Perplexed — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:56:25 GMT

She had real trouble carrying a foal when young, there is zero reason to believe this will improve with age...

If this mare were led through a sale this fall she might bring a bid above the upset

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

LCM — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:36:18 GMT

Scot, I think it's time to ask the same question "Is this a broodmare?" about DREAMY MIMI who is also listed on STARQUINE.COM. I'd like to hear the responses from the readers and yourself.

Scot's reply: Thanks for the suggestion, LCM. I think we've already heard several comments about what readers think of this mare's situation. In my "Is This a Broodmare?" series, I'm really trying for something specific. When I find a listed mare that I think would be a GOOD fit in specific breeding programs or whose bloodlines are remarkable (good or bad!), I seek comments from readers. In a case where the mare is 22 years old, I'd expect the majority of readers would agree that she is nearing the end of her broodmare career. Please do keep on the lookout for future "Is This a Broodmare?" candidates and let me know when you find something special.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

LCM — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:36:18 GMT

Scot, I think it's time to ask the same question "Is this a broodmare?" about DREAMY MIMI who is also listed on STARQUINE.COM. I'd like to hear the responses from the readers and yourself.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Kayte — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:29:36 GMT

As pretty as this mare is and bred as this mare is, I wouldn't waste the $10k on her. My main concern is that she has slipped or been barren more often that she has produced anything and it seems that when she does have a foal, no matter who it is by, it doesn't seem to inherit anything.

Maybe some suggestions are right- though I'm not much of a fan of inbreeding the Northern Dancer line (despite my Canadian roots). There is so much Northern Dancer out there that, if I were a Thoroughbred breeder, I would want to start breed horses that don't have him or Mr. Prospector in them.

My suggestion to the owner would be to donate her to a retirement foundation or stop listing her as a broodmare. She's a big, beautiful mare- even at age 15, she may find a home elsewhere that will find her a new career, either as a trail horse or a basic level dressage prospect. Racing and breeding aren't for her.

This where, if I was a small time breeder, I would take the chance on the $1000 mare before, rather than take the more risky chance of this pedigreed mare and lose my money when she comes up barren or misccarries her foal.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

jamie d — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:42:12 GMT

not all deputyminister mares are a golden egg when sent to the broodmare band. that s how people part ways with their money .give me an honest mare lets say by gentleman, and i would take her over the worst mare by mr. prospector. if you see where im heading. real bad balance hear.maybe send her to montbrook or his good son chapel royal their both lookers.besides coolmore will let you live your dreams she wont get turned down . go chapel royal.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

ROBERT — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:45:46 GMT

Since this mare has some Nashua blood in her, I would try inbreeding to that great stallion. I would also try to do a "Big Brown" inbreeding with her, and do some close up inbreeding. If she has not produced anything, try adding some inbreeding to the big stallions she has. I would also try some complete outcrossing with her. If you can find some German bred stallions, give it a try. She is very well bred, but I would buy her but not for $20,000. Maybe $7500. I think the close up inbreeding would be ok, because it would be to superior individuals and since she is outcrossed within her first 5 generations, it would be ok. After reading the other postings and your blog article, it looks like she just needs to have her genetic pool stirred up a bit. I enjoyed your posting very much. DO MORE of it.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Anna — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:01:42 GMT

Have your vet check her and see what the problem is. I know the seller is a straight forward sort of guy, but you should always bring your own vet ANYWAY when you examine a possible horse.

I agree with you on the Deputy Minister, but its a double whammy to have Graustark there too! I'm salivating.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Huh — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:40:16 GMT

DynaformerLives:

Purim would be perfect for Ferris Wheel because he would correct her bad conformation.

Whatever:

Horses being bred to death is techinally not true but mares do die due to foaling complications but that can happen at any point in a mares broodmare career.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

lespedeeza — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:33:38 GMT

She's tall and long and her successful ancestors ran well long on the grass. She wouldn't be commercially attractive and there are few stallions with her body type in this country. Unfortunately her pedigree would make someone ignore her conformation. Forget her head (they're not supposed to run on their heads...), her body and legs do not convey a balanced scopey mover. They have to look good in real life as well as on paper. To her credit, it's a bad picture-the pedigree would be worth a road trip.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

tbHORSERACINGrules — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:31:04 GMT

BTJake,

Add about 20+ years to that for me and ditto your comment. The complications from foaling, well maybe those mares would have been long gone if they hadn't been broodmares who's to say they would've gotten the meticulous, no expense spared care they get. The colic, we have a mare whose colic only has happened when she wasn't in foal, logical I don't know but it happened. And on, and on....

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

BTJake — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:02:20 GMT

After 40+ years in the business of breeding...I can't think of a single example of a mare being "bred to death". Can you site me an example?

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Whatever — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:46:56 GMT

Someone will buy her and breed her to death, no doubt.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

DynaformerLives — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:42:38 GMT

Who ever buys her should look at Purim -- that gives the great Dynaformer blood but in a stallion whose conformation is more likely to tone down this mare's angularity. Plus he introduces the good cross of His Majesty/Graustark.

Scot's reply: I sure do like Purim...

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Huh — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:29:23 GMT

With the price reduction then I say give her a chance with at least two more foals and see what you get there then make the decision but 10k I think I'd be willing to give her a shot in the breeding shed.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

tbHORSERACINGrules — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:13:50 GMT

Yes you're right about your possibilities. Also please forgive me messing up my display name, my grandson usually helps me and suggested a 'handle' I just don't do this stuff enough and can't keep it straight. Hope I'm not too confusing to all the posters. At least my thoughts on the horses are clear.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Gunfighter — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:10:37 GMT

In this day and age when everybody ia saying that we breed way to many horses every year, this mare should have been taken out of the bredding program about 5 years ago.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

tbHORSEFANrules — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:33:42 GMT

Scot, Forgive an old man for not re-reading the correction plus I'm slow moving so it takes me a long time to type this stuff and you probably posted it while I was typing. Still 10g for a backyard pet is a little steep. If she's calm and docile enough then a ranch horse. The 10g's makes her look a little more attractive as an experiment with an embryo transfer or a lot of work and effort into a match with a 2nd or 3rd tier TB stud. Doubt they'd let her book for a top stud and doubt anyone would go for that on her end.

Scot's reply: No worries -- I figured most folks don't re-read the post for updates, so your comment was a good place to ensure that it was seen! You and others have raised some interesting ideas about other potential opportunities for the mare. In my mind, she deserves another shot as a Thoroughbred broodmare -- a hands-on breeder who can offer individual attention to her would have the possibility to produce a royally-bred foal for a fraction of the price of similarly-bred mares likely to be offered for sale this fall auction season. Thoroughbred breeding is always a risk, but this mare seems like a risk worth taking for me. Thanks for offering other possibilities for how she might contribute to other disciplines; I hadn't considered those ideas.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

tbHORSERACINGrules — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:05:15 GMT

Swale, well that's possible but 20 grand for a pet is a little unreasonable. A pleasure horse? Depends on her disposition but once again 20 grand. My thinking is it might be worth while to try and do a QH cross/embryo transfer for an appendix, maybe not to run but for other purposes might get something with the right stud. If somebody has the 20 g's it's food for thought, otherwise the guy would be well advised to lower the price and see if someone will buy her or resign himself to the fact that he's going to have to care for her for years.

Scot's reply: I updated the post with a note that an ad change was made today. The mare apparently is now going to be sold solo (the 2008 filly isn't included) and the price has been reduced to $10,000.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Swale1 — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:39:52 GMT

It's time for this mare to be a pasture pet or pleasure horse. She isn't producing much, what she has produced doesn't run, and I don't know about the QH people, but those of us over in sport horse land (where TBs reign) wouldn't want her for breeding- she's put together all sorts of wrong. Time to give this girl a chance at another life while she's still young enough to have one.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

Jerry — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:31:48 GMT

First off 15 is not old and she's hardly been bred to death. Yes she might have reproductive problems but frequently a mare like this does much better with more personalized care. I'd definitely want a full vet report on her breeding wise.

Looking at her photo - conformationally she's not pretty.

She's very unbalanced, neck is way too long and her hind quarters lack substance. Not surprising she couldn't run. I would start looking for a stallion that could correct her obvious conformation faults (shorten the neck, better hind quarters). Off the top of my head Dynaformer might work (and I notice that her current foal is out of a Dynaformer son).

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

tbHORSERACINGrules — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:28:22 GMT

LCM, I think it's a given that most of us realists are perpared to lose money in the horse business, agreed? But as long as we can afford to give them good care and are sensible about it it's worth a try. Most of what all of us breed are those good horses that run well and earn enough to keep the owners in the game, then our dream, the one that wins the big one. As far as 20,000 let me tell you that a gelding in the rodeo world that is not even a top tier but just a halfway decent barrel or rope horse goes for 30,000 and up. The barrel horses, they can earn their purchase price back since those folks have divisional racing now but it's almost impossible to win that much back on a rope horse unless you do some hard hauling to some big rodeos.

re: Is This a Broodmare, Take II

SusanR — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:05:34 GMT

The valuation in my commend should read $1,000!

Scot's reply: Sorry -- translation error on your original comment -- I've corrected it in the original.