Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

If Desert Party Romps, Street Cry Is the New Mr. P

The Five-Cross Files — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:18:31 GMT

Kentucky Derby hopeful Desert Party has a re-emerging female family, the world's most prominent racing stable -- and maybe the most important sire at stud today.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Bradgm — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:44:52 GMT

Scot,

Thanks. Figured the monopoly was the topic, that's why I tried to stay there.

THIS is off topic. but do you have a picture of your colt in the sale or would that be a conflict of interest to print it? I'll try to watch but the little picture within a picture makes it hard to see details. Good luck with that, hope he does well and goes to a great stable, like his breeding top and bottom.

Scot's reply: I'd prefer calling it "full disclosure" instead of "conflict of interest." Ha ha. I did post one picture of my 2007 Brush Back colt (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/scot/archive/2008/08/05/yearling-sales-prep-update.aspx). I'll put up another one when he's at the sale grounds. Thanks for the nice comments on him. (And wait 'til you see his full sister, a 2008 weanling that will be going through the ring in November. She's a real looker!)

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Bradgm — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:52:28 GMT

Scot,

I do know that there have been any number of people on here who are involved in racing. I just think that, yes they may read these in passing and may even say 'hey, there's an interesting idea' but most of us just come on here to have conversations and exchange ideas and if we get some input from those heavily involved in the industry, great, like Ro Parra. However I can tell you from experience that even Steve admitted he just skimmed a lot of the comments, on some of the blogs the comments are too overwhelming to read in depth. I know that most everyone involved in racing is in it with their heart and soul, just read katsan. To me the powers that be are anyone who is involved in the industry day to day as a breeder, owner or trainer not just the biggest of the big. You bred a colt, you are one of them, maybe not a mover and a shaker of the highest magnitude but you know what it's all about, not just from the periphery. I've also met a farly well known trainer who posted on here. I personally know a bunch of trainers and don't doubt their passion for a minute. I also know some owners and breeders who are BIG time players. I do think that most of them don't like to be dismissed, lumped in with the bad eggs, like the Ohio situation and have it said that a Monopoly controlling everything is a good idea. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll ask a few when I next speak with them. I just think they are like all people, more apt to listen to those who aren't beating them up. My comment to Chris was that he/she was questioning what we of an opposing view on the monopoly, have done for racing, in turn what has he/she done besides the rhetoric. No you don't have to be directly involved, I'm not but I do a lot to support it.

Scot's reply: Thanks, Bradgm. You're right, horsemen who are involved in all levels of the sport are the ones whose opinions are going to shape the direction of the future of Thoroughbred racing. That's why I allow the comments to stray off the original topic every once in a while... it's a good opportunity for voicing divergent viewpoints on the matters that are important to the industry.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:41:28 GMT

Thank You Scot.

I do appreciate your reply. And now because I know that they are getting to them, in the future i'll try not to vent so much and stay more positive.

Thanks again,

Chris.

Scot's reply: Vent away. Sure, try to note the positive as well as the negative, but if you don't like something, point it out.

Leaders in the industry need to be aware of other perspectives -- fans, small breeders, first-time owners -- because the sport works only when all participants are involved.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:00:02 GMT

Nameless, faceless people!

Maybe, but then why is anyone on here at all ??? I mean...if none of your guy's comments or suggestions are getting to anyone who can make a positive change (with them), then why is anyone on here at all ???

I've already asked this in another blog. Are "ANY" of these comments or suggestions from "ANYBODY" on here (Not just me), actually getting to any of the what I like to call the "Powers That Be People" or if this blog is just a place for people to vent ??? And still nobody's ever said if they are or not. And if so what do they think about some of them ??? Yours included!!!

And still nobody's ever answered that. So i'm guessing just to vent!!!

Which I will continue to do as long as The BloodHorse allows!!!

Scot's reply: Several of the "powers that be" are members of the Board for Blood-Horse Publications -- while I can't tell you they pore over every post on our blogs, I promise you they're aware of the gist of the discussions!

I'm happy to say that I've found most of Thoroughbred racing's most powerful players to be sportsmen who love the game and the horses. As in any industry, a few bad eggs get a lot of press -- and inspire passionate debate -- but for the most part, big-name owners and breeders invest heart and soul along with their money, and they are as concerned as the rest of us with the problems Thoroughbred racing is going through.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

katsan — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:34:00 GMT

Typical, when someone asks a question then gets an answer they don’t want to hear they try to make fun of it or minimize it. You wanted to know what we’ve done, I touched on SOME of it. You, well all you seem to do is complain then want one entity to take care of it all. If you think it’s bad in Ohio wait til you get a monopoly. It‘s our livelihood, not just something to write about on a blog comment.

Maybe you could come up with a VIABLE solution to the problems. When was the last time you actually had anything to do with racing as an adult other than to criticize? That‘s a sweeping condemnation of racing based on what one track has done. If we‘re going to start dissecting each and every industry like that we‘d never get anything else done.

No they can’t take the farms, but the land can lie fallow and the tracks deserted, like Hialeah, or sold to residential developers like Bay Meadows or Hollywood Park.

Scot,

Good luck on your colt in the sale what is he Book 7 on 9/21? Will try to watch, I have high speed but it's giving me trouble with streaming video. Hope you do well. A little worrisome since the RNA's were up 5%. Azeri's first was an RNA at 7.7 wow. I mentioned in another blog that ACK ACK stood here for Buddy and Greer for a while, in the old days. Hope you make your reserve. Like they said there's a lot of good yearlings to be had if someone wants to get into racing.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Bradgm — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:17:57 GMT

Dude (and I can say it, I'm a surfer from Cal but now that I re-read, let's see, 20 something lady?). You called us out, I called you out. Still no concrete evidence of what you've done in reality. My point was you called out for a working man syndicate then advocate a monopoly.

You're right it's just opinions and I guarantee no one will take your advice. Not when they have 1. Forgotten more than you'll ever know. 2. Have bloodstock agents and breeding experts on their payroll or 3. All of the above plus, no one reading this puts any credence to nameless faceless people making 'suggestions' and criticisms.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:53:30 GMT

Dude: Your last sentence cracks me up.

"Posting your stallion selections for mares that aren't yours doesn't count!"

I get your point, but what's so wrong with giving an opinion ???

That's pretty much what they're asking for here.

And "IF" it happens to be the only way that I can currently stay connected to this industry that I do love, then again what's wrong with it ???

Dude: They're just opinions...like em or not !!! And if anyone happens to like my suggestions and tries it and succeeds with it, then cool. Good for them. And if I learn more about all of it, then good for me!

Believe it or not I truley do hope the best for everyone on here in this industry !!!

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Bradgm — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:47:45 GMT

Dude, obviously you don't know what a rant is, go to one of the college bb or fb boards, people call each other idiots etc preach their point of view tell each other off, that is a rant, I've been a blogger and a moderator, not just a commentor. katsan was answering your question, not her fault she and her family have done more in and for racing than you can imagine. It's pretty easy to sit back, criticize and bash people when it isn't your livelihood. As for the issues in Ohio, I'm not sure how old you are but surely old enough to realize that problems exist in every field of life, for every track like that there is a track like the one Stan Fulton runs. A monopoly? Heck they'd just do whatever they want and no one could challenge them, or even care. Didn't strike a nerve at all, just displayed the vacillation that is bad for any industry.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:13:48 GMT

Wow...struck a nerve.

Dude...it's just an opinion !!! But, it is nice to see that someone is reading them (Powers That Be People" or not).

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:06:07 GMT

Man...You kind of lost me half way thru that rant. But, i'll trust you and give you Kudos anyways for your passion.

Currently no i'm not an active member. Just a passionate fan and novice pedigree analyst who's tired of seeing the "Wrong" people being in control of this industry.

I grew up around Beulah Park, family got into it when I was 7. Mostly raced bottom claimers and bred 1 filly "Runaway Sioux" (L'Enjoleur-Runaway Flame-Runaway Groom). But, never had any Racing Luck to stay into it.

Maybe Beulah Park (if you know anything about the place) explains why I think that a Monopoly "Could" be a good thing right now. The current owners of the place who I have "NO" respect for have done nothing to improve it since the first year they bought it. They seem to be more interested in what else they can do with the place (while keeping simulcasting of course), "Instead" of re-building the racing program.

And even more recently have "NOT" requested Thoroughbred dates for 2009. And also have been caught falsifying birth records of 2 of their not so Ohio bred S.W.'s. And all they're being made to do is give back the $. If it were anyone else they would've probably been suspended or banned.

So...which is really worse ??? A "Monoploy" or just the "Wrong" people being allowed to be in such positions ???

At least the Billionaires that might abandone the sport can't take the Farms or the Tracks back to there home country's. Just the stock and furnishings.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Bradgm — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:47:00 GMT

Chris, Also wasn't this your post on a previous blog in this section of the blog stable?

"Sounds like all of us who post on here should be forming our own Syndicate. A Syndicate for the working class. The real fans of the sport. etc

I know I know....DREAMING.

Just a thought !!!

Chris 27 Aug 2008 10:39 PM"

Doesn't sound like the same person posting now or maybe what you accused others of "Eventually most people hate anyone who becomes too successful, just look at Hollywood. We hate it when we think we've seen too much of someone...like a Lohan." might be your issue. Certainly not mine or from what katsan says, not hers.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Bradgm — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:22:46 GMT

Whoa there, back up a minute. First off this was a privately brokered deal with undisclosed price etc a done deal before anyone knew about it, what could anyone do to stop it unless we have more billions than they have? Secondly, I'm not into change for the sake of change. Don't think that is the way to improve things. If you want racing to totally die then let an entity take over the whole thing. Trying to compare an Arab country run by kings and prince's an emirate whose ruler is also Prime Minister and VP of the emirates to a democracy is ludicrous. The majority of American's are independent and root for the underdog. If you think a monopoly in racing would be good for the industry you are mistaken. The sales would die, the breeding industry would die and the only racing that anyone would want to watch would be the tracks where it is fun to watch horses actually competing.

Whereas my list of accomplishments and support of the industry pales in comparison to katsans. I have tried to support the industry. Considering I'm a gambler that's probably my best support. I attend the races frequently, bet frequently and part of my bets go toward purses and so forth. I'm a financial partner in some rescued horses and a contributor to various research and support groups i.e. TRF, Grayson etc. Considering gambling and horse racing is an avocation not my vocation I'd say I've done more than most. Like katsan said what have you done? Posting your stallion selections for mares that aren't yours doesn't count.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

katsan — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:50:49 GMT

Chris,

We've stayed in business and carried on as a family for 70+ years. We've bred to some of the newer stallions over the years tried to improve the breed,support stallions that were brought into the state. We've supported the industry pushed for change in medication rules, voted for the casinos in our state which have greatly increased the purses. Gone to hearings at the State Racing commission to push for things that will help and tried to block those that will not. We have farms, pay taxes on those farms, pushed for bond elections for capital improvements at the State owned (previously) track. We know the owners of three of the major tracks and have made our opinions known to them,probably more than they want. We got behind the Raton race track reopening with a racino, tried to block the moving of the Downs At Albuquerque. Paid our help very well, gave % of wins, bought insurance for them. We've rescued innumerable ex racehorses, retired them to lives of luxury or re-trained them and given them new occupations as rope horses, barrel racers, riding horses, pony horses and a couple of jumpers always to wonderful owners who treat them better than they do their own family members. We've kept our horses sound and always within the rules. We've spent thousands saving horses, that others would have put down, as long as they had pain free lives. When one was lost to cancer we paid for a necropsy and let the vet publish his findings in hopes of saving another horse. We've been part of trying a medication that seems to help relieve pain and reverse laminitis to a degree, at a huge cost not reimbursed and also tested a type of shoeing that cost $200 per for the same retired gelding who we kept pain free and happy for years, then when pain set in we sent him to our Lord and buried his remains on our ranch.

Truth be told Chris, it's people like us and the old farms that keep racing going. When these people with billions tire of it just like they always do and move on to some new challenge. Those of us that have the business in our blood will never give it up. We had many opportunities here when things got pretty dire, we never wavered and neither did any of the others who have been around for decades. The McNairs, well you could almost see that they would leave when he got his FB team, that's what he wanted that's where his real interest lie, racing was just for 'fun'.

Now the inevitable question for you. What have YOU done and are you even an active member of the racing industry?

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 20:29:16 GMT

YES...I am American and my opinion stands !!! I never said it would be a popular one.

Like all of you, in the past I also hated Monopolies. But, it's appeared to me that nobody's tried too hard to stop them either. And that includes the "Powers That Be People" in this industry.

But, before we start duking it out..ha ha. Let me ask all of you one question now.

Here's your chance to impress me (which I truely do hope that you do).

What have any of you done to change this industry ???

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Bradgm — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:08:22 GMT

Not to barge in on the discussion between Chris and katsan but I think Chris is pulling your leg, or hasn't been to too many races. Nobody approves of a Monopoly, in the land of free enterprise???? Maybe in Dubai, where there is no gambling and the people rely on the beneficence of the ruling family but I can assure you Chris, that my buddies and I bet a very sizeable amount on horse racing and we would want NO part of a monopoly in racing. Most gamblers feel the same. Why? Monopolies eradicate the competitive nature of anything. They can charge what they want, do what they want and I for one sure wouldn't bet on a race where the only ones involved all trace back to one controlling family.

Also, a lot of the little guys have been around for a long time, I think katsan said on one of her previous comments that they've been involved since the early 60's or late 50's. The McNairs haven't been involved in racing for that long, they and other newcomers sort of support the argument that even the very wealthy may abandon something for various reasons that they deem legitimate. They come and go and still racing goes on. Sure it's not as much in the forefront as it once was but like someone said, in this age of video games, sports of every kind on TV, what sport is what it once was? Of course you also have a lot of the socio-political issues that I prefer not to get in to but some people are put off by those issues.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

katsan — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:20:29 GMT

Are you kidding? Monopolies are the way to failure and they are violations of the anti-trust laws in America to boot. I just think we've been here for close to 150 years, how long have they been involved in TB horse racing? Also why all the trouble in Japan for them? Attention spans are fairly short. The problem with monopolies is pretty soon you're running against yourself if you eliminate the smaller operations and the racing public could care less about watching it at that point, gamblers the lifeblood even less. It might survive in Dubai, we have too many options here, camel racing isn't really big. The farms, owners and breeders that are big enough to keep it going and there are a lot of them, that aren't trying to buy a Kentucky Derby or monopolize racing are probably far more important than someone who can come in here and buy up the whole operation, guarantee you Americans won't go for that. The partnerships are the way of the future not just 5 or 6 big money entities, been there done that it had to evolve. We probably haven't seen the worst, of racing or the economy but it's always cyclical. One question, are you American?

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:14:15 GMT

All i'm really saying is that I wouldn't be so quick to put down Darley for creating a Monopoly in this industry.

Maybe what were going thru right now is just a natural thinning of the herd ??? And maybe Monopolies are what's needed right now to help preserve Thoroughbred racing and breeding during the current economic hard times.

At least you know that they do have more than enough money to keep things moving in a positive direction. Unlike some of the little guys in this business who might actually have to get completely out of it for a while.

I mean "God Love The Little Man" in this business, but they don't always have the capital to keep on keepin on when times like these do come around.

And personal opinion is that I don't think we've seen the worst of it yet !!!

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

katsan — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:17:28 GMT

The comparisons between Dubai racing and American racing is like comparing apples to oranges, gambling or no. The size of the country, the sheer wealth, kind of like the horse show world here in the not so distant past. Comparing them, they also have camel racing there and it's documented that the child jockeys have suffered.

I don't have anything against them, I'm not a jealous person, it's wasted effort and energy. I just have seen how much difficulty Magna and so forth are having, never thought that would come to pass. If TB racing in America keeps on the downward slide, with the economy etc then who knows if they just abandon it. Leaving it less than it was. And they are buying up a lot of American racing, farms etc.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

Chris — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:59:11 GMT

So far i'm still ok with Darley. Eventually most people hate anyone who becomes too successful, just look at Hollywood. We hate it when we think we've seen too much of someone...like a Lohan.

But, when it comes to Darley right now it's kind of hard to hate them for anything other than the fact that hey have control of 1/2 the worlds Oil.

Remember too that in Darley's home country "Gambling" on Thoroughbred racing is illegal. Do you really think American Thoroughbred racing could've survived in the past or present without Gambling ???

And in the world of Darley racing even their best sometimes get beat. Remember Bernardini and Invasor ???

Just a thought !!!

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

katsan — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 23:48:17 GMT

Scot, whereas I admire their dedication to racing, I never like to see anyone monopolize anything. I don't think it's healthy. Like Magna, all the tracks now they are in trouble. Same with Penn National. The rate the ruling family is buying up the Bluegrass, stallions etc the playing field starts to slant. Then what if some major situation occurs, they lose interest or any number of things and they back out? I still am for the little guy because I am one of the little guys. Did I see you have a yearling for sale? I might hope someone like them would bid on it too, if I was to sell one of ours, probably would rather someone would get it that wouldn't just consider it a number.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

scarborough — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:16:00 GMT

Good point, our whole business is dependant each year on OUTSIDE money coming in. And Darley has unlimited capital to invest...how could this possibly hurt us in the long run? If they are determined to "own" all of American racing, something I believe no one entity can do, then why haven't they owned two or three Derby winners by now?

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

sgillies — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:17:31 GMT

I've written about Darley a few times (including a recent article in Keeneland magazine about the Darley America operation) and have come to admire the participation of the Maktoum family in worldwide racing.

If nothing else, please consider this: the Thoroughbred industry relies on outside money.

Great breeders and owners of the past generally brought wealth from other sources to the SPORT of racing, and did not consider racing to be a money-making activity. For most of the industry, that's no longer the case. I believe the Maktoums can be compared to the sportsmen and royals of 100, 200, and 300 years ago who founded Thoroughbred's racing traditions.

If Darley's investment in the sport helps to keep racing alive for a new era, I'm all for it.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

katsan — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:04:33 GMT

Here, Here BTJake.

I hope it stays that way. I was concerned about the sale of Fasig-Tipton, they claimed no major changes would be made, sure right. Now the purchase of Stonerside, buying every potential stallion they can. I just hope folks like us small timers somehow come up with the super horse then don't sell it to the money men.

re: Darley Expands Its Street Monopoly

BTJake — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:39:46 GMT

I'm not sure it's fair to say they "own 'American" racing" but I guess that is a popular opinion. Despite the Darley guy's spending unimaginable amounts of money at the sales, and buying up a lot of interesting breeding stock...there are many owners with more horses, higher earnings, better win percentages, etc. I, for one, find it comforting that success in this business/sport cannot simply be bought with a huge sack full of money. Sort of encouraging for a small time breeder like we are.