Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

LadyValtaya — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:55:46 GMT

Wow- she looks like a powerhouse! If she was chestnut I'd say she looks just like Shuvee! Anyway I guess I'd breed her to an elegant looking stallion like Mass Media. Even though I love Tiznow!!

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

TouchStone Farms — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:59:53 GMT

Scot Gillies in my opinion has proven article after article to be at the forefront of pedigree analysis this mare is just another example of his excellent breeding acumen, and I will be following his articles very closely from here on in!

Scot's reply: Thanks for the flattery -- I need to make sure my editor-in-chief sees this!

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Pedigree Addict — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:44:57 GMT

I'd have to agree with the QH comments... She's VERY stout and compact, which makes her look neck-less... And, I'd peg her as a sprinter upon first glance; but overall, I've always loved Dynaformer as a BM sire.

I'd agree that I think she's slightly overpriced. Alluvial is an AMAZING mare to have as a grand-dam, but I feel like they're capitalizing a little TOO much on that... Especially with LQ as the 'baby daddy'. If he was a superstar stallion, perhaps I'd reconsider... but, alas.

Go ahead and laugh at me; I started thinking about Slew O'Gold and I started wishing Silverbulletday's '02 foal by A.P. Indy wasn't a gelding..;) Tice? Is that his name?

Other than the tongue in cheek... You all beat me to the good ones. Giant's Causeway would be a great match on the page, given how well he's been selling too. My favorite choice would have to be Touch Gold; he's lovely, and would compliment her nicely. And, I'd concur on Posse too.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

catnip lane — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:55:45 GMT

I noticed that the mare's yearling brought $110,000 at Keeneland. That makes her much more attractive. I still feel she would be worth much more bred to Posse or any stallion more well known. The $75,000 price tag still seems a bit high considering the foal she's carrying, but she's shown she can produce income at the yearling sale.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Wanda — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:02:32 GMT

tbHORSERACINGrules: I'm with you on that. Short back, massive shoulder, big hip and her neck comes out of her shoulder way to low.Some sires that have been discussed are of similar body type. I wouldn't go there.You should find a stallion that will commplement her ie, length etc.I wouldn't worry to much about a A nick on paper cause the mare can't read!

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

tbHORSERACINGrules — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:37:42 GMT

Linny,

That hip, chest and neck, look at a QH stallion of an equal age, even a few of the mares. I pulled out some of my win pictures from back when we were running them, the QH's same body type, the TB's no way. Not even some of the outside mares who we've had here. Several horsemen on here made comments about the muscular status of the mare. She needs a lot of refinement in my opinion but like I said I may have looked at a few hundred too many and my eyes may be failing, after 80++ years.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Linny — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:41:07 GMT

IMO, the mare looks big boned with a heavy but not short neck. She could easily pass for a warmblood but she doesn't like QH to me at all.

I'd be worried that at $75k, the foal she's carrying would be a liablity. I wouldn't be sure I'd want the expense of foaling and raising only to get it to the sales and have folks say "who?"

She looks like a nice mare, certainly well bred, but she' need a stallion to refine her a bit.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

tbHORSERACINGrules — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:08:54 GMT

DR. B, Then that must be a bad picture. I looked at her and she looks like a QH. I did side by photo comparisons and she looks nothing like a the mares I compared her to. Now me, I like that body type, her neck must be longer than it looks and if it isn't then she isn't well balanced as a TB race horse. I'll take the word of a world renown trainer and agent what makes one a potential superstar race horse. 60g's for that kind of breeding? Seems like it would go for a little more. Personally I know what they do with weanlings, yearlings two year olds etc, I've had enough of them.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

DR. B. — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:27:49 GMT

Any weanlings purchased are placed into training as yearlings, when this mares yearling now named "Berkley Road" went to auction last November I was authorized to spend up to 60,000 to secure her. Her balance and conformation is excellent as is her "True Nicks A++ rating with a 6.9 variant. As fate would have it the day before the sale I was in a car wreck in Cincinnati and missed what turned out to be a superb buying opportunity that arose from her poor sales position. If this mare had been re-bred (as she should have been) to "Proud Citizen" or a son of "Deputy Minister" instead of the Sires they chose the farm would have bought her at a higher figure than they are currently asking!

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

tbHORSERACINGrules — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:47:22 GMT

Didn't think I'd be inclined to agree with LCM but she/he is right. This mare looks like a QH in body, but no neck and her head is just off with the body type. Every time I look at the picture I think how odd her head looks on the body. A real famous trainer said once that it's the balance of the horse, an opinion I agreed with. This mare is out of balance, no neck, petite head. The same guy also said the jocks stick shouldn't be longer than the neck if you lay it along the top and that would definitely happen with this mare. I'd pass, pedigree doesn't always guarantee success. In the current market, overpriced and if she was in the Nov sale would sell for a lot less or RNA. Just my opinion of course, although I've seen a few hundred broodmares up close and personal in my long life.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Marianne — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:14:51 GMT

This mare has a kick ass pedigree and the stallion, Kitalpha, full to Kingmambo, that she's in foal to, won't be an unknown for long. Should be a good cross. Take a look at Ocean Silk. Very similar. I think she's definitely worth the $$ and I'd snap her up if I could.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

TouchStone Farms — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:05:49 GMT

I agree 100% that this mare has a "million dollar" bloodline - as stated her first foal will be sold in book four as hip #2832 she is nice size filly that is very correct, has a large range of motion, and has scoped & x-rayed perfectly, but more than that she is very closely aligned with "Proud Spell's" Northern Dancer line breeding....who knows maybe "Proud Citizens" next "Oaks" princess.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Chris — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:27:22 GMT

Too bad "Rahy's Attorney" is a gelding or I would've suggested him also.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

UrbanSea86 — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:53:50 GMT

Hailing from the UK, Im going to be bold and suggest a UK based stallion. Of course, shipping a horse over here etc etc, Im not going into that but for arguments sake I would take her to a more refined stallion than Giants Causeway, as I see someone suggested earlier. Shes a bulky mare [of course she has had two babies, but look at that neck!] and so would suggest something like One Cool Cat whose first crop is doing relatively well in the UK plus I like sons of Storm Cat, who has also done well with the dynaformer line. One Cool Cat is also a beautiful animal, leggy.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Chris — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:56:18 GMT

JMcM:

Good catch on Touch Gold.

Love Touch Gold and should've caught that myself.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

LCM — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:08:31 GMT

The mare has a very strong body, but didn nobody else notice she has NO NECK!!! Which is very odd for a Dynaformer. THere is no way she's worth $75,000 in foal to that stallion. The breeder will have a hard time getting anything for it. I'd say she's worth $25,000 - $30,000, but she may bring more based on her pedigree. But find a stallion that throws horses with a nice long neck like Unbridled's Song

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Bellwether — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 09:36:55 GMT

Louis Quatorze...he's going to throw a super freak before he finished reproduce n...LONG LIVE LOUIS!!!...

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

JMcM — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:27:50 GMT

On my first post saying I would breed her to Touch Gold, I forgot to mention that Sharp Susan is by him and out of a Dynaformer mare

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

JMcM — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:35:39 GMT

A beautiful mare with the breeding to match. I'd like to see her bred to Touch Gold, Deputy Minister out of a daughter Buckpasser sire of her maternal grand-dam.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

TJluvsTIZ'S — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:30:56 GMT

I agree that the $75,000 price tag is high. However this mare opens up endless possibilities to breed to top class sires.

Call me biased but breeding her to Tiznow could be better than advertised. It only rates as a C for an enick but there are three fantastic horses out of Tiznow that have been triple crossed with Northern Dancer (broodmare sires): Tizdejavu (Dixie Brass), 2-yo Champion filly Folklore (Storm Cat), and Tiz Wonderful (Hennessy) who only raced 5 times but won a G2, G3 and placed in a stakes race off a 6 month layoff before suffering a career ending injury.

I almost forgot, Colonel John (Turkoman) is also a 3x cross of Norther Dancer. This mare is bred for distance and the Tiznow's that succeed big are two turn horses.

I will concede however that the Deputy Minister line seems to be the best cross available.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Chris — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:25:12 GMT

OK...

I'll just say that $75,000 is a con and I think the seller is just trying to recover the cost of his breeding mistakes in her advertised price.

To me...$25,000 tops considering the current sales market is on a downswing, her race record isn't much and all 3 of the sires that she's been bred to are too new and unproven. Which means that they were just hoping that they could've struck lightning and then profited on the feeding frenzy that would have followed.

As for who to breed her to in the future I'd have to go with "Posse". He's still a little too new for my liking (preferring mostly proven sires), but because of the proven Silver Deputy/Dynaformer/Rahy nicks it's kind of hard not to.

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Robert — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:25:52 GMT

This mare is screaming for Quiet American. Either him or a son of A.P. Indy. I love the fact that she is outcrossed for 5 generations. This mare can be bred to almost any sire line and should produce for you. I would not under any circumstances breed her to any sprint sire. Choose a sire that won at 1 mile or longer. She has alot of stamina in her pedigree and should throw the same. You might even cross her with some Damascus blood or try her with some good German lines. I know most everyone says she is not worth $50,000, but disagree. She has the looks and bloodlines. Its up to you to unlock her genetic punch. Thanks

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Davisondad — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:58:56 GMT

She certainly is a nice looking Mare and you can't argue with her pedigree! As you stated, the asking price seems to match better with the pedigree than it does with the race record. Her sisters have produced some very good runners, and I think that she will too! I would breed her to Lemon Drop Kid. He has a fantastic record with 9-F Mares, producing the likes of Lemon Drop Mom, Kiss the Kid, Malakoff,and Lemon Kiss! You would be doubling up on Northern Dancer and Buckpasser....not a bad thing to do. Dynaformer is a proven producer of G1 Route Dirt horses, as well as Turf runners. Lemon Drop Kid seems to produce the same sort of versatile runners able to handle dirt and turf. My guess is you would end up with a great turf horse, who could hold his own if the weather pushed you onto the main track!

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Secretariat's Secretary — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:57:00 GMT

Possibly the lack of interest in her foals has to do with the previous crosses to newer unproven sires.

With her bloodline, I will try the following:

Giant's Causeway

Rahy

A.P. Indy

Smart Strike

Seeking The Gold

Kingmambo

Awesome Again

New Sires worth trying:

Lion Heart

Silent Name

re: Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

newsline2 — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 12:27:19 GMT

Can you explain "black type" and "white type" please?

Scot's reply: Most Thoroughbred sale catalog pages use standard formatting to visually represent certain achievements. A horse that finished "in the money" in a designated stakes race (as identified by a standards committee... most stakes races are also "black type" races) will be indicated on the page in bold type, also known as black type. Horses that have won a black type race are indicated in LARGE BOLD TYPE. Bold type tends to stand out on the page and, in general, the more black type on the page, the better-bred the subject horse.

So-called "white type" just indicates the opposite -- the given horse has not won a designated stakes. In the same spirit, a "white-type stakes" is one that doesn't qualify for bold type within a catalog page... usually because of a low purse or because the race has too many restrictions.