Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

bird man — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:10:31 GMT

Ruffian and Go For Wand come to mind when I think of Eight Bells. They were all three year old fillies. Maybe another year to mature would be a good thing. Racing careers starting at three instead of two. Derby and Oaks at 4yo ect...

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

sgillies — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:37:17 GMT

Update - AWAY (hip #271 at the KEENOV sale) sold for $2.5 million.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

Melynda — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 03:13:24 GMT

By accident I mean it was nobodys fault. How do you know she was in pain sgunne? We can point fingers and make assumptions all we want. But none of that matters.

Her death was nobodys fault. We can only learn from it.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

Kyri — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:54:30 GMT

I would breed Away to Derby winner Street Sense. You'd most likely get a foal who could route, Street Sense was a sound animal (for as long as he was around), TrueNicks gives this cross an A, and you linebreed to Dixieland Band, who is a good source of durability IMO. Kingmambo would be another interesting possibility.

As far as whether Eight Belles' death was an accident, I think that I'm not quite understanding how some posters are using the term "accident".

It was accidental in that it was not deliberate. At least, I certainly do not believe that the filly was deliberately injured (or see how this could have been done). That would be a very serious accusation to make. I'm sure that no one intends to say that.

So, since her breakdown was not deliberate, how could it have been anything other than an accident? "Accident" does not imply "totally unpredictable" or "absolutely unpreventable". Though, in this particular case, I think that this particular accident was more or less both. There was nothing wrong with the horse at any time leading up to the incident. The only factor I'm aware of *possibly* predicting an injury, other than that horses are physiologically fragile and breakdowns do happen, was her having been sired by Unbridled's Song, whose foals do have a reputation for fragility. But I would want to see some hard numbers before deciding whether or not that reputation is deserved.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

sgunne — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:47:22 GMT

RE Eight Belles - no one has said it was an accident. I know of no other horse that has broken both ankles galloping out. I watched Eight Belles run her 3 races at Oaklawn Park prior to the Kentucky Derby and at the wire in the 3rd race she jerked her head to her far right in a look of great pain. I cannot get that image out of my head since watching her breakdown at the Kentucky Derby. I will always believe that something happened in the Oaklawn race that lead to the breakdown in the Derby. I'm not saying that any of her connections knew something was wrong with Eight Belles, but I think they missed something. With all this said I don't think the full sibling of Eight Belles should be avoided.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

davisondad — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:02:41 GMT

When you are talking about a Dixieland Band Mare, out of a Mr. Prospetor Mare.....You know that the pedigree screams greatness! Add in the fact that the Mare is a 1-x family....well you might want to ask the Feds for a bailout before you even begin bidding! For those who are not a follower of the 1-x female family, some noted grade I dirt routers of the last 10 or so years include the following: Frost Giant, Mineshaft, Smarty Jones, Ten Most Wanted and Bluegrass Cat...not a shabby group!

As for who I would breed her to??? That one is easy....one stallion has produced 3 millionaires, plus a $998K+ earner,when bred to 1-x family mares. He has also produced 10 offspring who have earned over $500K.

So if the names of Mineshaft, Tomisues Delight, Master Command as well as Congrats, Yell, Rockslide, Accelerator, Run up the Colors, Daydreaming, and Little Belle sound like horses you would like to have owned...Then breed Away to AP Indy. All of the monsters listed there are crosses of AP Indy with 1-x mares. Of the 39 runners that are AP Indy crossed with 1-x mares, over 25% have earned over $400K! I can't find any other stallion with that kind of record! Not to mention, AP Indy offspring tend to be durable!!

For those who don't want to follow the "vodoo" of the female family lines, it is still a great cross! AP Indy crossed with Northern Dancer line mares has produced the likes of Indy five Hundred, Rags to Riches, Music Note, Apptitude, and Jump Start. Top it off with 4X5 Bold Ruler, 5X5 Hail to Reason, 4X5 Raise a Native, and 5X5 Native Dancer and you have enough speed and stamina to please anyone. Not to mention a 11 11 22 0 0 Dosage profile with a Index of 3.0 and +.75 Center of Distribution......Sounds like a trip to Louisville for the first Saturday in May!

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

Midnight Hill — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:52:29 GMT

I believe that Eight Belles death, while incredibly tragic, was a freak accident. I also believe that too much of any bloodline (not just Raise A Native) creates soundness problems and limits our gene pool.

I don't know what this mare will bring in the ring - it is hard to tell in this market - but if I had the oppertunity to buy her I would send her to A.P. Indy to create a commercial cross. If I were looking for an outcross of sorts I would go to Holy Bull or Tiznow both sires of proven runners but not the best sires for the sales ring. If someone wanted to cross her back on the Mr Prospector/Raise A Native idea I would look at Mineshaft or Claibornes young Unbridled stallion Eddington.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

Anne M — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:43:43 GMT

I have read articles from several different people that the problem with soundness can be more pronounced when Raise a Native is doubled up on in a pedigree - I would be looking for a Stallion with no Raise a Native - and one that has produced many sound runners.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

Lora — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:29:30 GMT

Dear butterscotch77:

Who said Eight Belles' death was an accident - never heard that?

Lora

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

The Colonel — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:18:18 GMT

Some people believe that Unbridled's Song sires unsound horses. Other people believe that's just a prejudice. Who's right and who's wrong? But while I believe that Eight Belles' death was an accident I sincerely hope that people WILL start looking to stallions who sire stouter horses.

What about Master Command? He's an outcross to Away since he lacks Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer, he's inbred to Secretariat, his dam line goes back to La Troienne, and he was a pretty good racehorse.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

Tallulah13 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:54:52 GMT

This is to Butterscotch77: Since Eight Belles death was caused by an accident, not any defect, I'd say that the odds of a sibling suffering the same fate is the same as any unrelated horse taking a mis-step and breaking down.

Accidents happen, even to horses.

re: Broodmarathon -- Dam of Eight Belles

butterscotch77 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:28:20 GMT

I don't have an opinion as far as stallion prospects go.

I will say that what are the chances of this foal suffering the same fate? If the chances are high then we should all be looking for Barbaro's siblings to suffer the same fate as well. Nobody seems to disparage that cross.

Genetic traits are impossible to predict.