Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Revelations of the Catalog Page, Part II -- The Thoroughbred Industry's Techno Failure

The Five-Cross Files — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:38:36 GMT

I'm starting out my rant-and-rave session by censuring Thoroughbred industry participants for refusing to embrace the types of technology that could revamp our sport.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Ralph — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 08:00:48 GMT

A lot of the handicapping information is going hi-tech. With downloadable PPs, DRFs, the Sheets, it's more economical for everyone.

I came across the American Produce Records in CD format. I've never used these at all - print version or cd. Can anyone give me some feedback on its uses? Thanks

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bradgm — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:10:54 GMT

There's been streaming video for years. Phone bidding. Online bidding is too slow to work effectively, too much reliance on your ISP IMHO. If Tattersalls was doing it, maybe that's why it sucked. Especially since most people posting on the various blogs on here don't think it's the economy.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Mercedes — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 04:37:54 GMT

And it's not just the catalogs online but online bidding and live video of the sale like Tattersalls launched for the October yearling sales.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bradgm — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:57:08 GMT

Me, I prefer to work on something that will make me some megabucks. I make too much money doing what I'm doing now than to focus on something that is such a small market product.

If you're doing it for the fun of it then fine. My fun is the races themselves, the sales (status quo), skiing, snowboarding and surfing. I prefer to spend my work time doing something of a benefit to my clients and me. Somehow I don't think this would be it. (actually did ask someone who frequents the sales and they said the PDA is more trouble than it's worth. I figured that's the opinion we'd get.)

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

BIGHORSEFAN — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:31:57 GMT

jed

Let me tell you one thing. If I was paying hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for a horse/horses I'd da**sure expect Fasig-Tipton, Keeneland etc to do things the way I want. Right now my guess is they're trying to figure out how the heck to sell those huge # of horses at huge $ amts. think about it even at $10 a catalog x 1000, that's not even the commission on a couple of big sellers. They have bigger fish to fry than the catalog issue.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

jed_dog — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:17:30 GMT

Did not mean to turn this into talking about software. Just trying to show the trend that is going on now. Yes you are correct, you can print out manuals because many times you have too. I print things out too. But I don't expect everything to be printed for me. As for looking at catalog pages on a mobile device. It will take a bit to get use to. And you can't just take a page and expect to look at it on a PDA. You have to reformat it and add functionality. This is not ready yet, but I am sure someone is working on it as we speak. If not, it would make for a interesting business opportunity. I have many ideas on how to create something that would make it very easy on people.

If I am wrong about the end of the printed catalog, then all I have done is maybe get some people to learn something new. It may help them in the long run. Maybe give them the edge they need. If they still print catalogs in 5 years, I will write back and say, sorry I was wrong.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bradgm — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:48:34 GMT

jed

Just let me say that computers are my livelihood. Yes you can download the information, yes you can download software etc. But the average computer user always wants tht tutorials printed. We aren't talking about people who use computers 16 hrs a day 7 days a week and most still feel comfortable with the printed word. I know, I teach people how to use computers and they all want something they can refer to without having to go to the tutorial or back to a site and look it up. I do computer education for companies, private people among many of the computer related duties. Including hardware and software support. Most of the companies as well as the casual users don't like to download software. They want the purchased software. Avoids having to download it from a backup if you crash it, most don't even do backups, no matter how many times I tell them of the importance. Maybe some of the younger people who are very computer oriented having been raised on it do things the way you are speaking of.

In addition to my aunt who is self taught I have one who is much younger and has her degree in Computer Programming from 24 years ago, she still prints and reads all the instructional material. She and the other Aunt both started working with computers when there was the old punch card system so I guess they've trumped both of us and they still want hard copy instructions. By the way, ever gone to the library to check out one of the For Dummies books? They're always checked out and the bookstores say those are amongst their best sellers.

Also, don't know if you're a gamer or not, but every single game comes with an instruction booklet, even though the instructions are on the games.

The young people you are talking about most likely won't be buying for a very long time as a whole. With the way folks are talking on some of these blogs horse racing won't be around anyway.

Let me tell you something about the responses. Not sure how involved you are with racing but it is very much a traditionalist sport. They now have online accounts to the bookeepers at the track and can do bank transfers as well as using the trainers software to calculate bills, plan workouts etc. Their bookeepers do that for the most part and even a lot of the bigger barns you go to still have handwritten workout and race charts on the wall.

One last thing. The logistics of a catalog page on a small phone or PDA screen. How do you look at it?

In order to look at the whole page it would have to be minute, how would you be able to read it? Scroll down, in the heat of 'battle' you don't have time. Just say oh I had this one marked not look at it again as far as the breeding and the history on the colt or filly if you started wondering why it was going for less or more than you thought?

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

jed_dog — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:39:59 GMT

Bradgm, I was generalizing. I have purchased computers for the past 13 years? The amount of printed material has greatly diminished. Most of the software I buy is online now. If I want the printed instruction book, I have to pay extra for it. Of course you get a instruction manual on how to hook up equipment, but it's very basic. But there is very little printed info on the software that comes with it. It might have a few basic things, but if you want the detail you have to go online. But you said it yourself "old time buyers" the bread and butter people who go to all the sales across the US. When you start seeing newer faces that take advantage of digital technology, the demand for those printed books will decrease to the point that they are not needed. What if Fasig-Tipton decided not to print their catalog? Are you just going to guess at which ones to buy? Prepare now and learn how to use these online tools. The writing is on the wall, but at least you have a choice. I am not trying to be chicken little here, but I am amazed at the responses.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Perplexed — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:14:04 GMT

There is zero chance of the printed books going out of use.

Anyone who looks extensively at horses at sales knows the advantages they have over e-books.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bellwether — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:44:55 GMT

Bradgm, i refuse to let the grey matter get old!!!CHANGE is the watchword of progression,when change is needed...we own four T-Breds one(Flashy Arty/Artax) which is running sat. @ beautiful Laurel Park MD...small time but what a hell of a ride!!!LLTK!!!

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bradgm — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 02:47:51 GMT

also, correction to Bellweather, what I meant wss my Aunt isn't much younger than you and I don't see her as old. Course she looks 10-15 years younger than she is, good genes.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bradgm — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 02:42:37 GMT

Not totally true jed

I just got a new printer combo, it came with a booklet and a CD to install it. I buy a lot of computer equipment, build a lot, that's my business. Almost all of it still comes with a booklet. Just got hughes.net, it came with a booklet, thank god, talking to their billing department is a nightmare.

Tell me one thing. If you buy a new computer and haven't got a clue, how do you get on line to find out how to set it up? Call their help desk??? They read from the booklets. Hire me? Now there's a plan. My last Dell, Compaq, HP's I bought in the last 3 months all had instruction books.

I just think this is one thing the old time buyers will fight.

Question is, who of us on here is a major buyer? We don't know how they feel now do we? Also, do we not think that the auction house will do whatever the guys who really buy and aren't just looky lous want?

If somebody is buying 20 million worth of horses my guess is the auction house will read each page to them if that's what they want. If someone can afford 100g's -2 mil for a horse, how relevant is the cost of a catalog to them and how much should it be to the auction house.

We probably are looking at this from the point of view of an average to well off person, not a mega buyer. Right, the Sheik is going to worry about paying Kinko's to copy a catalog.

Personally Scot, I think if your colt grows a little, his breeding will hold him in good stead. It's their loss. Knowledgeless neophytes.

(Hope that made you feel better. WeVe got your back buddy.)

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

jed_dog — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:04:17 GMT

Interesting views. But what if Keeneland decides to create a abridged version of the catalog. 2 horses per page. Or worse than that, you get a letter in the mail giving you a web address that contains the catalog. What are you going to do? Keep a open mind and leverage technology to keep you ahead of the other guy. You will be in a much better position to make a wiser purchase.

Now days when you buy something you don't get a instruction booklet you get a web address to go download it. If your lucky you get a CD ROM. The horse industry is no different. We just haven't caught up yet. You may be able to purchase a catalog or get it printed a Kinko's, but it will cost you a arm and a leg.

Scott is correct. The day is coming. Get ahead of the game now.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

BIGHORSEFAN — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:26:23 GMT

by the way Scott, tell me you weren't looking for any signs from potential buyers or bidders when your colt was up for sale.

Scot's reply: In the case of my most recent sale colt, I would've had to look really hard for signs of interest -- he just wasn't in the buyers' headlights during this sale! But you're right, someone studying the catalog page is usually a good hint that he's actually interested.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

BIGHORSEFAN — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:24:57 GMT

I'm that new demographic, 30 something. I just don't see the guys who buy at these sales replacing a catalog with a PDA, IPhone etc. Maybe they'll use them to supplement the catalog but a lot of times a horse might come up that didn't stand out and wasn't included on their pared down version. Then what? Go borrow one? Right like one of these guys that writes a history is going to give you their trade secrets.

Also the consignors are watching every nuance that would tip the hand of the buyer as are their competitor buyers. With a Catalog you can wander around, add to your notes and no one is the wiser. Sort of hard to disguise that you only have certain horses in an electronic device. Also as far as the secrecy on bidding. Man that is the truth. they have these predetermined signals telling the bid spotter when they're in or out, they can camouflage the catalog, but like Brad said, people can see when you whip out the PDA or study the screen.

By the way, try to get your 70-90 year old parent or grandparent get on the computer. Most people over 60 STILL get their daily news from print or Television.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bradgm — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:11:24 GMT

Bellweather,

No, my Aunt is younger than you and I would say she isn't old at all. She's as good or better on the computer than I am, and she's self educated on it.

Also, I don't know how big of a buyer you are.

I'm talking about the 70 something guys, set in their ways still holding on to the few things that they can. How many of the older trainers still are fighting the cell phones? Heard Ron McAnally say he never remembers to turn his on. Understood that Lukas didn't have one a few years ago, have seen him with one at least once now though. Dude, you forget 60 is the new 50, 50 the new 40. My Gram's favorite commercial, never trust anybody over 90 (she's 82).

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Ed Zepplin — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:48:37 GMT

If you are sitting a computer all day, your vision of paperless catalogues make sense but if you actually work a sale and know how a dirty enviroment will destroy and device and how much buyers rely on the book, you will know it will never be replaced and be as efficient to the buyer.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bellwether — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 05:50:51 GMT

am i one of the older crowd you are talking about?...is 60yo old?...we do love our PC as it is ONE(cell phone is one too) medium that helped us get in THE GAME!!!Long Live The Book!!!...& THE DIRT!!!

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

STEVE STONE — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:52:52 GMT

Hello..Being in the newspaper publishing field myself for more years than I care to recall..from an advertising discipline...its the electronic age of the internet that will be the eventual nadir of our venerable industry..w/magazines..both consumer and trade following not to far behind...In todays society..people want nothing but instant gratification all tantamount to an changing lifestyle and demographic...Just simply print out the content and tuck it into an folder and your on you way...The thoroughbred sales catalogs as you noted I believe will become extinct in as you noted...in five or even less years..Its just to costly to print and to mail w/the rising costs of postage and their weight...Its just not cost efficient...Most people today have an laptop or blackberry....all complimenting their cell phones...At least those attending these sales...For me its extremely depressing as I have careered in the publishing field and now its vanishing before my very own eyes....Jenna D referenced Charles Hatton of the old..storied THE MORNING TELEGRAPH..he was referred to as "The Headline Hunter"..it was emblazened on his Underwood typewriter in white ink..I spent my college summer days there on West 52nd St in NYC and knew him well...So nothing is forever and times do change...Its all part of lifes evolution...change is vital and essential..as long as its positive...Just look at racing and how its changed...However from what is occuring in the industry now and the challenges that lie ahead... I at times have my doubts....Thank you for the window always..Steve Stone..East Hanover..New Jersey

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Bradgm — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:31:03 GMT

Computers are my livelihood. I get most of my information electronically. I've got all the latest electronic toys, I Phones you name it. Guess what? I still print out the stories I like. I still read hard copy books. I still like hard copy catalogs. Newspapers are dying out but their info is day to day, minute to minute. I still like to have a catalog to hold in my hand and look at it, even though I don't buy, yet anyway. Moving in that direction all the time. Imagine some of these older guys using PDA's, I Phones etc. Not saying they can't but most of them won't.

I remember a long time ago when I was a kid and saw again when Simon Bray interviewed him, that everyone was dying to see what Lukas had written in his catalog. I'd like to see what Buzz has written in his too. Also Ferguson and Demi. Just imagine. Although, some of those may use handheld devices now. Think they like the secrecy (notice the secret signals when bidding) and when you whip out the PDA everybody knows what you're all about.

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

Dreamer's Mom — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:24:53 GMT

Happy day! The new catalogs are here!

I understand the cost, but I love curling up with a good catalog and "shopping". Dog-eared, ratty and tatty by the end of the sale...nothing finer than having that book in my hand!

I also understand "up-to-date", but that information is available if I find it critical to have right then and there.

I hope they never do away with catalogs. They are better than going through catalogs as a kid, marking stuff for Santa. WAY better!

re: Thoroughbred Sales Catalogs -- Why Electronic Will Kill Printed Books

LanceS — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:55:52 GMT

I think printed books will live on. It's just much easier to make notes in a printed catalog. Even now, while I'll read short memos, etc. on my computer screen, anything more than a page I print out. Just much easier to annotate, highlight, and frankly, read.

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Jenna D. — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:54:33 GMT

I hope the printed catalogs don't die out! Imagine going from barn to barn with an electronic device, looking at yearlings as a mist or light rain is falling! You'd be afraid that the rain would cause the electronic device to short-circuit, or better yet, how about putting it down and having someone spill coffee on it? Hopefully in my lifetime there will always be a printed catalog, and shame on you for suggesting otherwise! I think the real drawback to the computer age is having so many damn bloggers clogging up web pages with nonsensical topics! Give someone a keyboard and an Internet connection and all of a sudden they think they're the second coming of Charles Hatton.

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TIM — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:47:43 GMT

FYI - the future of printed catalogs.