$14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

LoriM — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:17:33 GMT

Looking for some good commentary from those of you who are much more knowledgeable on Thoroughbred breeding than I am:

How about purchasing a mare like this to fit in a regional breeding program? I am based in Michigan, in hopefully a re-emerging TB market. and am a former harness horse owner and breeder.

She fits a profile that my Dad and I used in breeding harness horses (and pretty close to the price point!) with some success both on a regional and national level: Look for a mare that has some real black type in second and third generations, and/or comes from a strong maternal families auch as La Troienne. Our observation was that strong maternal lines could lie dormant a generation and then produce a superstar. Also, a horse that is step below racing in grade level stakes races, could still have enough ability to pick up some significant money in state bred programs.

Obviously...there is certain price point or "ceiling" to pay if you are looking to race and breed in the state bred program... it makes no sense to breed a horse that you could buy for less money than you have in breeding and raising them, and with that price point there are certainly some compromises to be made in what you are buying(less than stellar dam sire, late mating seasons, etc.).

If breeding to a Michigan stallion, right now you are looking at a $2000 stud fee. The division leaders in the state bred program last year seemed to earn around $150,000-$200,00. `

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

Bellwether — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:15:14 GMT

anyway you cut it...its still a shot in the dark @ what you are getting anytime you buy a Race Horse...no ragging but look @ The Green Monkey!!!LLTK!!!

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

Horsetrader — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:04:14 GMT

As a person that does buy, sell,breed, train, break, ride, etc. horses for a living, not as

hobby nor as a pass time I will try and offer a little insight into how a professional

interprets information presented on a catalogue page. What we have here is a 10 year old

mare by a very moderate stallion that started in Kentucky and is now standing in Louisiana

for $4,000. Knock # 1. Due to that fact that he was only of mild interest to Kentucky

breeders he would have only been sent moderate mares. So the chances of him ever

becoming a broodmare sire of any stature is slim to none. Which would be knock # 2.

The selling mare is out of an Opening Verse mare. Even though he was an Eclipse award

winning race horse he was retired to stand stud in Maryland. As with Afternoon Deelites

Opening Verse by in large would never get enough high quality pedigreed mares who’s

daughters would be bred to top level stallions. Hence the chances of these mares getting

high quality racing stock is also slim to none. Knock #3. One would say if this was true

why was the grade 1 producing mare Landera bred to Opening Verse? Because she was

22 and had not produced even a moderate runner since Cutlass Reality 11 years earlier.

The selling mares dam, Opening Reality is a very poor producer having only had 4 foals in

10 years! One filly by the forgotten stud Prospect Bay. So there is no chance of her

producing something that will work for you and improve the pedigree. Knock 4 and 5.

Interestingly the breeder of Opening Verse foals got lucky and sold a 2 year old colt in

2006 by a stallion I never heard of for $160,000. The selling mares race record on face

value looks very expectable. iI I had my auction cheat book available I would look up her

speed figures so as to give a perspective on how good a race filly she really was. The

stakes she placed in were low level even the grade 3. And I would suspect that she was

bought out of the claiming box being that she was still racing at age 5. I would not knock

her too much based on the success of her produce on the race track at age 10. Most

professionals would feel the same. Knock # 6 would be the fact that she has a 2 year old

soon to be 3 by the very good stallion Forest Wildcat that is unnamed. Knock 7 was made

very clear by JDZ. Knock # 8 is the fact that he last cover date is May 24. So if you are

lucky maybe and I mean maybe she may get back in foal by the end of May. But she will

have to given a year off shortly to get her back to early foaling. An expensive proposition

for a cheap mare. Knock # 8 is the fact that you have nothing on the horizon working for

you. The only one being the yearling by Touch Gold. It did not work the first time, and I

doubt the person that gave $160,000 for that one is going to come back to the well.

Clearly the breeder was grasping at straws as to who to breed her to. There would be no

clear nicks so they defaulted to the breeding of Ten Most Wanted and came up with

Touch Gold who is a better sire then Deputy Commander. But not much. Stats for

mares in foal to Grand Reward would not make me raise my hand. 2007 11 mares were

sold for a median of $12,000. $500 less then his stud fee. No disrespect to Laura R’s but

you are looking way too deep. Valid points but nonsense never the less and have little

bearing in the real world as Rodney Dangerfield pointed out to his business professor in

Back To School. So, if I were in the back walking ring bottom feeding with the other

sharks I would give this mare a pass at any price in any market after just quickly going

over the page. Especially if I had a sales cheat book in hand.

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

Laura R — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:55:47 GMT

I differ with some of the other opinions on this board. I feel some of the viewpoints over this mare are a bit too narrow and harsh. After review of her pedigree, age and comment regarding her conformation, I would expect to pay about $20,000 - $25,000 for this mare in today's market.

Twilite Tryst appears to have a decent pedigree. She is from the Lowe Family 1-X, which produces good broodmares.

She has sex-crossed balance of Bold Ruler on top through Laughter and Secretariat (4x5), and Northern Dancer through Franfreluche on top and The Minstrel on the bottom (4x3). Further, her sixth dam is the great La Troienne.

Twilite Tryst's sire, Afternoon Deelites, is a good synthetic track sire. He has a decent AEI of 1.55, and his broodmares on average, sold for around $42,000 last year, so to take into account this year's prices, I'd figure a good quality broodmare would go for about $30,000 - $35,000.

Twilite Tryst's second and third dams' offspring have produced two Grade 1 winners each. Landara's daughters produced Cutlass Reality and Ten Most Wanted, who is currently #2 on the California Sire list. Good Landing's daughters produced Del Mar Oaks winner Bail Out Becky and King's Bishop winner, More Than Ready who's sired 51 stakes winners so far.

I believe many breeders, especially on the east coast, don't view pedigrees with an eye towards racing on the emerging synthetic tracks. This mare could be a bargain and produce some useful foals if bred to a known synthetic track sire, such as Officer, or Unusual Heat. Taking a chance with new stallion, Tiz Wonderful, whose sire Tiznow and dam sire, Hennessey are both superior synthetic track sires, could pay of nicely.

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

Wanda — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:29:23 GMT

I know this a little off the subject but I was looking at the results for the last few days. How bad was the bottem end in weanlings? On paper there looked like some real buys but of course I didn't see them first hand. I did see some pinhooking action on some of these babies so I guess these guys aren't scared away.

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

Colonel Burt — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:36:27 GMT

This is exactly the mare profile which has suffered most in this market. There is very little toleration for the length of the produce record, and the race record or early produce success are discounted severly.

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

Crabby Old Man — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:40:54 GMT

If she was such a great buy, why didn't YOU buy her.

I "love" people who are all about "Do as I say, not as I do."

Scot's reply: Ha! I've been bidding at the sale and looking for a couple of bargains. In this case, the owners didn't let her go for such a low price!

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

American Dad — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:34:55 GMT

In today's market, the sellers should have taken the $14K. The mare has no runners of note despite going to quality stallions, her dam had only the one runner, the mare in question, and Cutlass Reality is the only top flight runner under the second dam. It appears Twilite Tryst outran her breeding, a credit to Afternoon Deelites, but lacks the quality to carry through as a broodmare.

re: $14,000 is Today's Price for a Nice Thoroughbred Mare

jdz033 — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:21:36 GMT

She R.N.A.'d and the foals she had thrown were not good sale horses nor have any of them run. The el corredor couldn't bring 1,200 and the Touch Gold brought 160,000 but can't run. She hasn't gotten it done yet, what makes you think she will now?