Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

NYFarmowner/breeder — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:01:40 GMT

We breed in KY and sell NY breds and board mares. Our business is busy as owners want to cash in on the NY programs owner and breeder awards but we still have a newly 2 year old filly by Include and gelding by Yonaguska that seem hard to sell due to the market. They are gorgeous and nicely bred but everyone is cutting back on numbers of horses. Hard to blame them! We don't know if we should breed all our mares or not this year. The stud farms will have to come down more than they have on fees to entice me - because the cost of raising them right just keeps going up!

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

C Bea — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:49:27 GMT

The fact that the market for horses is clearly off 50% or more but the Stud Farms have only cut fees 10-15 (20% at most)says a lot about the arrogance or myopic view of this Industry many have.

The rate of return for a commercial offering is down significantly yet, few do anything about it while simultaneously lamenting the lack of good mares to breed.

While I'm not a fan of the commercial merry-go-round it does seem to be an obvious and important segment of the market. How in the world can these top Stallion farms be so intellectually/factually oblivious to the new realities of life!?!?

I'll not breed another mare until the stud fees come down another 25% or more.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

hardlyhatful — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:14:31 GMT

I agree with you barren mares a extreamly cheap and anyone willing to give them a chance could get some excellent pedigrees for a bargin. Island Fashion's full sister only went for $10,000. If I didn't have a field full of horses I would have been their.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

LittleGuyBreeder — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:02:29 GMT

I about cried that the dam of Read the Footnotes went through for $1,000 (RNA). Yes, she was not in foal, as listed, and hadn't produced a foal in two years, but that doesn't mean she's hopeless or worthless! She's 19. I just hope she ends up as a happy, healthy lawn ornament. I can't stand these people who just put down (as in "snuff") these grand old mares like they have no value. Princess Rooney stopped producing, but was a great baby-sitter. People need to think outside the box with these older, barren mares.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Dreamer's Mom — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:52:59 GMT

There were 2 mares on the sale that were "family" to our stallion that I watched-both brought in the $30,000-$32,000 range and I was thrilled to see them bring that kind of money. One was in foal and the other a broodmare prospect. Nice mares with solid pedigrees.

This sale makes me re-think my breeding operation, though. We could have taken a trailer or two down and loaded up on young horses for $1000 each. Way cheaper than raising them, for sure. Not nearly as satisfying, but money talks right now.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

aspradling — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:35:48 GMT

If the money was available in my pocket, 2009 would be the ideal year for me to get into the sport.

I would buy a couple well bred mares and breed them to either the most proven at their reduced fees or even save more money on the similar lined less expensive alternatives. The market correction and "on sale" like atmosphere is the perfect opportunity.

I would totally find a mare that would fit Rock Hard Ten pedigree wise, purchase her and point the foal to race with the 2010 crop...just because Im a Rock Hard Ten fan.

Breeders should really go after business men/women who have always been interested in entering the sport.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

catnip lane — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:56 GMT

I am one of those that feels it will be a couple years before the market makes significant improvement. Because of that, I am looking to foal share the majority of my mares and not breed some of them this year. I have considered adding a young mare to my herd, but I'd probably buy the best bred weanling or yearling filly that I could afford to buy. By the time she'd be old enough to breed, the market hopefully will be better and I would have improved the bloodlines of my herd. I agree that you can pick up a nice barren mare for less than normal this year. She'd have to be as good as or better than my best mare for me to consider buying and breeding another mare for 09.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Abbie Knowles — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:50:47 GMT

Interesting stuff! The name La Troienne rings a bell! Anything to do with Brigadier Gerard? i may be wrong as my memory can be patchy!!!!

I too think it is good to give mares a year off from time to time. Racehorses are not machines and neither are broodmares or stallions! i object strongly to stallions covering huge books of mares and wish legislation could be brought in to prevent this!!!!! If i had a stallion he would cover a max of 70 mares a season!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Karin C-C — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:29:28 GMT

From what I've seen of the sale, the mares that are taking the hardest hit aren't necessarily the barren mares, it's the mares that have several foals that have gotten to the races (or are old enough that they should have gotten to the races) and don't have at least one good solid winner with black type out there. I think the perception is that these mares are culls, and people are reluctant to take someone's cull. Based on what I've seen, the current market is punishing the mare with a mediocre or bad produce record, even if she's in foal, worse than the young mare who is barren or not bred.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

CAJUNCOCKER — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:37:14 GMT

I AM LOOKING TO BUY A GOOD YEARLING, AND EVEN 3-4 MARES TO BREED. THIS MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. I FEEL LIKE NOW IS THE TIME TO BUY. WITH THE MARKET DOWN LIKE THIS YOU CAN PICK UP SOME REALLY GOOD DEALS

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Lohnro — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:48:33 GMT

If it happens, a decline from 36,000 to 27,000 will present an unprecedented opportunity to test breeding theories. You suggest your chance for a stakes winner goes from 1 in 12 to 1 in 9. This assumes an equal decline in the foals sired by every stallion. If Giant's Causeway's book doesn't decline, or least not proportionate to the foal crop, I would argue he will have an increase in the % of SW's sired. Whereas a sire with a lower strike rate of SW will see a decline in that percentage disproportionate to his decline in book, because that sire will have fewer runners and they will be running against a constant historical level of better sired horses. Afterall, mares taken out of production will be those at the lower end of the market. That is will the rich get richer? It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out, and the insights it may provide for measuring the true performance of a stallion.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Dreamer's Mom — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:45:00 GMT

My decidedly UNcommercial mare produced a stakes winner, so who knows? I wasn't looking for her exact identity, just curious "where she comes from" so to speak. I know more about where my horses come from than I do my own 2-legged pedigree!

Not that it matters, but I do like the In Reality!

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Julie L. — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:31:38 GMT

I have always believed in giving a mare off between foals as the foal following the barren year will benefit from the mare's own renewed strength and will not be competing for calcium and nutrients from the foal nursing at her side. Purchasing a barren mare is not that huge an issue for me.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Beth — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:49:16 GMT

The part about having a stronger foal after a mare is "dry" for a year makes perfect sense.

Broodmares are either nursing or pregnant. After she has her newborn foal, most mares are bred again during "foal heat' which occurs when her newborn is just 7-9 days old! Her body can't help losing condition and nutrients over time, even with the best feed and care.

Giving her some time off gives her a chance to get back condition and rebuild lost nutrients.

Resulting in a healther and more robust foal.

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Dreamer's Mom — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:48:26 GMT

Congratulations on the new addition to the family, but don't leave us hanging! Give us a pedigree at least!

Scot's reply: *grin* Thanks for the interest! I will actually hold off on her identity until I discuss my mating choices a bit later in the breeding season... however, I will say that she's a decidedly UNcommercial mare from the 1-x (La Troienne) family and carries both In Reality and Olden Times. More coming....

re: Hard to Give Away -- Barren Mares at Breeding Stock Sales

Lohnro — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:04:08 GMT

Your projected decline in the 2010 foal crop is a reasonable conclusion, however I strongly disagree with that being a rationale for breeding a mare into that crop. First, the number of foals in the crop has no bearing on the actual racing ability of your foal. The ratio of stakes winners, allowance winners etc. will remain the same. Further, a one year decline in mares bred will have a miniscule impact on field size unless racing in 2yo races (maybe 3 starts if you are lucky) or the limited 3yo races (only after you break your maiden which are ordinarily 3/4 year old affairs). Such a decline would need to be sustained over multiple years to have any impact on your horses. Thus it may make sense in say 2012 to breed this barren mare. Its like the sales being run at retail stores trying to encourage buyers. Just because something is 80% off doesn't mean you should buy it...it is still the same product you didn't want 6 months ago...You are effectively saying it is worth breeding because you have slightly increased your chance of picking up 5th place money instead of 6th...

Scot's reply: Good perspective. I should also probably say: I've been planning for a couple of years to breed in 2009, and I'm following through despite the economic climate. That said, I actually do foresee a couple of years of decreased foal production -- and think that it will impact the sport in the coming years. Sure, the foals born might not be any more talented than they would be if they were in a larger crop... but they ARE more likely to be accepted into the stable of a better trainer (who's looking to fill a thinner barn), and they DO have a better chance at black type races, just by relativity. If 3,000 horses from each year's crop are going to run in stakes races, I would rather have one of a crop of 27,000 (1-in-9 chance) than a foal from a large crop of, say, 36,000 (1-in-12 chance).