Brownie Gets Big Book

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Joe — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:35:22 GMT

Pomeroy, a Grade 1 sprinter and Minardi the European 2yo champion, both sons of Bounday just like Big Brown never had any soundness problems. The idea that just because Big Brown had soundness issues you shouldn't breed to him is nonsense, many horses have soundness. In SPORTS there are always injuries and at least non of Big Brown's injuries were career threatening, they were quarter cracks and the injury before the Breeders Cup when he grabbed a quarter. BB will prove to be a great sire.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

horses98 — Wed, 13 May 2009 00:29:33 GMT

I don't know much about thoroughbreds, but I loved watching Big Brown race. Is Stardom Bound related to him?

Scot's reply: There's no significant duplications in the pedigrees of Big Brown and Stardom Bound. The closest is probably Northern Dancer, who appears twice in Big Brown's five-cross pedigree, and in Stardom Bound he shows up in the fifth and seventh generations.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

stardom bound — Mon, 11 May 2009 03:02:20 GMT

It's true and I'm not changing my opinion. You are entitled to yours and I'm entitled to mine. I truly believe what I said. Eight Belles and Barbaro were related to Native Dancer who had leg problems. It was passed down to them through their breeding. I'm sure that inbreeding is not the way to go, and I hope that breeders will start to realize that.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

stardombound — Wed, 06 May 2009 11:13:49 GMT

I guess so. When did Big Brown go to stud? I know he's already bred some mares but I don't know when he started. As for his foot problems, I think his foals will be okay ( hopefully).

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

stardombound — Wed, 06 May 2009 10:57:25 GMT

Well, I'm not too popular with inbreeding. I was watching a tv show and it said that inbreeding weakens an animal's bones. That could be another reason why racehorses have been breaking down so much

Scot's reply: Inbreeding in and of itself does not do any such thing. That's a common misperception and too many people buy into this nonsense with absolutely no evidence to support the claim. Inbreeding is like many other breeding tools -- used wisely, it strengthens the resulting foal; used poorly, it detracts from the foal's potential. Inbreeding to sources of soundness is one of the best ways to IMPROVE the strength of future generations of Thoroughbred racehorses.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

stardombound — Tue, 05 May 2009 12:22:37 GMT

I think they should race Stardom Bound into her four year old season. Anyway, I would like to see Rags to Riches be bred to Curlin. That would produce a good foal!

Scot's reply: That would be a popular choice! And I do love the 3 x 3 inbreeding to Deputy Minister -- he is broodmare sire to both Curlin and Rags to Riches. (My earlier comments on Deputy Minister as a damsire.)

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Julie L. — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:05:57 GMT

Of course Stardom Bound is booked to Big Brown, IEAH now owns the filly and once owned Big Brown till syndication so they will go out and purchase the best racemares they can to send to Big Brown. Me, I'm waiting for Curlin's babies and hoping for the best. It will be interesting to see the offspring of both stallions face each other on the track. The race everybody wanted between these two horses was not to be on the track but instead in the breeding shed. I'm laying money on Curlin.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Karen in Indiana — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 02:31:55 GMT

Mike Iavarone gave an interview after Stardom Bound's race today and stated that the plan is to race her as long as she stays sound. I haven't heard anything about soundness issues with her.

As far as Big Brown and breeding, I would love to see him bred with Dreaming of Anna. Do you know who she is booked to?

Abbie, I went to Three Chimneys last November to see Big Brown and take the tour. She said they limit their stallions to 110. And that Dynaformer has been cut back to 90 or so because of his age, but there was the implication that he didn't approve of the reduction. LOL! I'm planning on going back later this year to see how Big Brown has settled in.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

sgillies — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:18:26 GMT

In case you didn't notice it, please check out the UPDATE to the post above -- IEAH's Mike Iavarone comments on Stardom Bound's future racing plans.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Janesville Liz — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:43:13 GMT

Now that we have the news that Stardom Bound is booked to BB, I expect her retirement soon. A subpar performance this weekend or in the Santa Anita Derby, and there will be a problem and off she goes to the breeding shed. IEAH is in the business of money, and it is a fact that second crop yearlings bring less in the sales ring than first crop, and they will naturally want her foal to be a first-crop. More money for their "Portfolio,"

Scot's reply: For the sake of racing, I sure hope Stardom Bound runs a full 3-year-old campaign. I doubted IEAH's intentions with Big Brown but give the program kudos for at least allowing him to run a couple of times post-Belmont. It would've been easy to retire him then, but he was brought back and went out with a couple of nice wins instead of the Belmont Stakes fiasco.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Draynay — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:25:31 GMT

Nice to see that many of you haters have followed Big Brown to the breeding shed. He was the best we have seen in 20 years and you still have to rip at him even when he is retired. You people need to get a life isn't there a baby seal in your neighborhood you could be picking on?

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Mara — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:18:47 GMT

Hoo boy. Draynay already has Big Brown taking home leading sire honors with his first crop. Color me surprised. I would like to see the horse do well, but who knows? Impossible to predict.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

SQ — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:16:42 GMT

How about Proud Spell!!!

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

gw_bushwacker — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:37:35 GMT

At least Big Brown is meeting better quality horses in the breeding shed than the ones he faced on the track. I hope he doesn't spook from the handler standing right near his breeding stall like he spooked at the handler well up the track in the Belmont. If that happens he may never produce a thing.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

da3hoss — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:23:37 GMT

Do you mean "brilliant pedigree" as in DI Brilliance or "inspired"? To me, a German Shepherd Dog police K9 breeder since 1986, it appears to follow a similar template that European working dog breeders have used with great success for a 100 years...line-breeding (as opposed to in-breeding which is in the second and third generation of a pedigree)on successful crosses of genotype and phenotype far enough back to hopefully reduce the incidence of harmful recessives showing up (like bad feet) and increasing the incidence of the line-breeding's superior genes.

I think he brings a world of individual & pedigree merit to the breeding shed, even with his crappy feet...in dog breeding, a superior individual with one serious flaw to improve is preferable to an individual with a dozen smaller flaws you have to "fix"...so in BB's case, mares from lines known for soundness and great feet really have nothing to fear...of course if a foal is bred strictly for "celebrity market value"...eg "big name to big name", well, that kind of breeding usually does nothing for the improvement of the breed, only the pocketbook.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Gulchfan — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:29:05 GMT

same for me, KMauer, I wondered if there was news of her retirement I had missed or something, or are they planning on retiring her early this spring? or possibly going ahead and breeding her this spring, racing her pregnant into the summer, then retiring her before the BC (a darn shame, if so, who doesn't want to see her match up against Big Z, both on a track they love, with the same running style, not to mention, to see whom Mike Smith chooses)? but after reading the article, it made more sense, though I've never heard of announcing future (possibly years into the future) bookings to a stallion, I think they're trying too hard to say, 'look! these mare owners aren't afraid of his feet! you shouldn't be, either!' (never mind that she and he share owners); on that, remember back when a stallion had to *earn* mares like that? when they weren’t just ‘presented’ to him in his first book? when he had to do more with less the first few crops, till owners of better mares saw what he could produce? those days seem long gone, sadly, in this day of ‘breed-to-sell’ and using even sale prices of babies to advertise studs before any of their progeny has hit the track (a poor indicator IMO, the auction price is *hardly* a measure of talent on the track, I’m sure I don’t need to list the number of high-priced failures and bargain-basement champions here)

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

HopefulBut — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 07:19:55 GMT

I support the hopes folks have for BB's success as a sire. However, I share the concern about his soundness - And...shouldn't we be a bit concerned about his close family history (Boundary) of fertility issues? Is THAT something we should be selecting for in the breed?

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Suzanne — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:05:07 GMT

It's quite possible that Big Brown's racing brilliance will be passed down to his offspring & that his foot problems won't (I'm sure everyone hopes for that outcome).

When I see him in recent photos, I wish that his grooms would continue to trim his "bangs" & keep the hair from being in his eyes & annoying him.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Abbie Knowles — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:22:41 GMT

Hmmmmm does this mean a few races for Stardom Bound then retirement or being very cynical is there somthing we do not know? Yes a foal of Big Brown and Stardom Bound would possibly be very special! (Although breeding the best to the best does not necessarily produce the best! Breeding racehorses can be an inexact science can't it?)but she has so much potential that if she is sound it would be good if she got a chance to show what she can do on the track first. The Kentucky Derby sounds to have been almost ruled out already if Patena does what they hope in his next few races.

I do however wish Big Brown all the very best in his new career. He is a grand horse but do share slight concerns about his soundness. His pedigree and looks are out of the very top drawer. though. And Three Chimneys is a great stud farm so he will have the best possible care and be given every chance to succeed. How big a book of mares is he covering numerically do you know?

Three Chimneys limited Seattle Slew's book when they had him i think but do not know what their policy is now! Just skimmed through most of the info I have on "Slew" but i cannot find the number of mares he covered when there. If my memory serves me correct (and it often does not!) then it was a relatively small number compared to the huge books a lot of stallions get landed with these days.

In the UK and Ireland having to cover over 200 is not uncommon. Disgraceful though - and very greedy and I feel irresponsible! We have too many unwanted racehorses as it is! Hope Three Chimneys will not make their Stallions cover large books of mares ie much over 70!!! But then I am an optimist!

Thanks for the article!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

KMauer — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:42:08 GMT

I just about freaked out when I saw Stardom Bound's name in the headline tonight if they retire her before she's had a chance to give it all she's got I'll be VERY upset but it's not like it hasn't happened before

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Susan — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 01:51:25 GMT

Should I ever breed a mare, I would certainly take pedigree into account; yet no matter how great he looks on paper, I'm even more concerned with how he looks in the flesh. Big Brown has had Big Foot Problems and I wouldn't likely breed to him because of it.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:54:27 GMT

...I take it we won't be seeing Stardom Bound on the track for much longer. Even thought it's suggested that she'll be in for "future seasons", I suspect that a mysterious "injury" will take her to the breeding-shed in time for 2008. A crying shame.

re: Brownie Gets Big Book

Draynay — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:33:22 GMT

Big Brown was a champion in the ring and expect no less in the barn. I love the horse and can't wait to cheer on the offspring of Big Brown and Stardom Bound possibly two Kentucky Derby winners producing another Super Colt !!!