Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

pam — Sun, 11 May 2008 03:50:35 GMT

well just to let everyone know they had another breakdown at hollywood park today they won't even talk about it, there so afaid to speak the truth, mike smith and alex solis collided and one horse was injured it was a filly miss cozzy cat i haven't been able to find out if she was euthanized it's like they are all sitting on pin and needles how are we going to deal with this if they won't even discuss it. hello people it's not going away.....

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

freshfan — Thu, 08 May 2008 07:34:50 GMT

I haven't heard any news on Gayego or Pyro and how they came out of the race. I know they both had rough trips and were closed off during the race, any word on how they fared or if they are planning on racing in the Preakness or Belmont?

Scot's reply: Nothing much on Pyro right now; I'll let you know when I hear something. As for Gayego: Trainer Paul Lobo says "He came back very well - so far, so good" and indicated that his colt is heading west after a disappointing try at the Derby. He could be pointed towards the 9-furlong Swaps Stakes to be run July 12, and probably a prep before then, but regardless, he'll get a couple of weeks off.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

Tory — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:41:48 GMT

It’s not just the tragedies of loosing young champions, it is the tragedy of an industry that will not correct itself (not that Eight Belles was not loved an cared for), and then this business has the nerve to complain it is loosing fans.

The problems: horses are raced late in the day at the derby with shadows on the track, raced before bones solidify, raced on surfaces that are to hard or cause soft tissue injuries on synthetics; given hormones that screw up their bodies; given meds that cut off healthy forewarning pain; bred for speed not stamina; not salvaged of reproductive capacities in the event of euthanasia.

The solutions: stop kowtowing to the networks and race before shadows hurt vision on the track; do not race before age four for bone health so that surface is not such a major problem; stop pushing medicines that promote too fast of growth or hide pain; get off the addiction to speed and breed in some stamina - think Seabiscuit; save the reproduction of the great horse, put in a salvage program of harvesting sperm, eggs or even cloning.

Yep, insurance rates would skyrocket, but at least by age four connections would better know how good and sound their horse is. I am a retired physician assistant who worked on a transplant team and know that such harvesting has been medically advanced for years. I can vouch that it is a great relief and kindness to survivors to know that their loved one will in some way live on. With animals there’s even cloning to prevent the waste we see all too often on tracks.

Another word to the industry. To the public this is not the past when horses were considered chattel. We no longer live on farms where we are inured to birth and death as a common occurrence. Attitudes have radically changed. Even rescue squads have oxygen masks for pets. Look at Katrina, 70% of New Orleans households had pets with owners who wouldn’t leave them. We love our pets and spend billions a year on their welfare and health for the pleasure they give us. It is no different with thoroughbreds. The industry is expected to live up to its DUTY to do what is best for the horse, not money. You will literally kill the horse (and racing) that lays the golden egg by turning off fans because of problems to which solutions should have been implemented long ago.

I knew Big Brown would win after seeing his phenomenal acceleration in other races. And he would have been 8+ lengths ahead if it weren’t for Eight Belles. There she was 4+ lengths behind trying to catch up with him. Bless her stubborn heart. It was such a great race, this Derby. But it ended with us all feeling so terribly empty. The only solution to that emptiness is to demand that changes be made now for the future of the sport.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

Jodi — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:48:29 GMT

Awesome idea on bringing in Arab blood. Also how about allowing AI breeding to throughbreds standing outside the US? This would allow US breeders to bring in more bloodlines and increase our gene pool. How about increaseing purses for races for older horses? Make keeping a horse racing sound until 4 or 5 lucrative. STOP racing 2 year olds. Todays throughbreds can't do it and stay sound. That's our fault. We've bred our selves into a corner. When we do race these horses, put fetlock support boots on them. Nearly all the other equine sports use them. If all horses racing wear them, it will be an even playing field. And finally... BAN the use of steroids. It's not allowed in human sports, why in heavens name are we using it in these animals. They cannot make these choices for themselves. We create these spectacular animals. We OWE them all better than this.

Scot's response: Thanks, Jodi. Your comments touch on a lot of interesting ideas. I'm going to do some research on infusing "outside" blood into Thoroughbreds. Your suggestion about AI, I believe, is one that The Jockey Club deserves some credit for avoiding, however. Look at the American Quarter Horse problems over the last quarter-century... let's learn from their mistakes. They opened the door, and now there's no closing it!

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

MATTHEW B LOMAS — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:42:40 GMT

WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT WERE IT NOT FOR EIGHT BELLS BIG BROWN WOULD HAVE CRUSHED THE FIELD BY 9 LENGTHS OFF OF ONLY THREE RACES THIS HORSE COULD BE THE FIRT TRIPLE CROWN WINNER IN 30 YEARS NOT ONLY THAT HE REPRESENTS THE KIND OF STAMINA THAT COULD REALLY HELP THE NEXT GENERATION OF THOROUGHBREDS AS A SIRE.

Note from Scot: Again, your comments are welcomed -- but ALL CAPS is not fun to read; please use lower-case type in the future. Appreciated!

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

susan — Wed, 07 May 2008 14:17:12 GMT

I don't know what's going to come out of this tragedy, but I hope something good does. Whether it be our ideas on breeding on how far and how fast we can push these fragile animals; I hope something changes for the better. The horses just aren't as durable as they once were.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

RACINGFAN — Wed, 07 May 2008 05:14:54 GMT

I AM FINDING A LOT OF FRUSTRATION IN READING SOME OF THE POSTS HERE. I FIND IT SURPRISING HOW MANY PEOPLE EXPRESS AN OPINION WITHOUT HAVING THE FACTS. WHY ARE SOME OF YOU SUGGESTING ALL TRACKS MOVE TO SYNTHETIC SURFACES WHEN THEY REMAIN UNPROVEN. YES SOME INJURIES HAVE BEEN REDUCED BUT OTHER INJURIES ARE MORE FREQUENT. IN FACT THE LAST PUBLISHED STATISTICS SHOWED VERY LITTLE OVERALL IMPROVEMENT-WHICH SURPRISED THOSE WHO WERE CONDUCTING THE STUDY SO MUCH THAT THEY ARE RE-LOOKING AT THE RESULTS. WHAT HAPPENED WITH EIGHT BELLES WAS A TRAGEDY BUT IT IS NOT THE FAULT OF ANYONE-IT IS UNFORTUNATELY PART OF RACING. I AM ALL FOR TRYING TO MAKE THINGS AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE AS IS EVERYONE IN RACING AS WE LOVE THESE ANIMALS! BUT NO MATTER WHAT IS DONE-ACCIDENTS CANNOT BE AVOIDED. THESE ANIMALS ARE GIVEN THE BEST OF EVERYTHING AND ARE VERY LOVED. INJURIES ARE NOT A RESULT OF EARLY TRAINING (RESEARCH CLEARLY SHOWS THAT EARLY TRAINING IS BENEFICIAL FOR THE HORSE-LONG EXPLANATION NO ROOM FOR DETAILS HERE BUT YOU CAN LOOK IT UP)AND IF YOU LOOK AT HISTORY 2 YEAR OLDS WERE RACED MUCH MORE 50-60 YEARS AGO (OFTEN MAKING 20+ STARTS). WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS A HUGE NUMBER OF HORSES RACING (WITH A PROPORTIONATELY SMALL INJURY RATE) AS COMPARED TO YEARS AGO AND A LOT OF PUBLICITY SURROUNDING INJURIES AS THE MEDIA DWELLS ON THE NEGATIVE FOR ITS RATINGS. YES TWO YEAR OLDS ARE BREEZING AT THE SALES BUT BACK IN THE DAY THOSE TWO YEAR OLDS WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN RACING. DO I AGREE - NO, THEY SHOULDN'T RUN UNTIL SUMMER OR FALL BUT IT'S BEEN HAPPENING FOR 100+ YEARS SO THIS IS NOTHING NEW. I ALSO DON'T SEE WHERE THERE IS ANY PROOF THAT HORSES TODAY ARE ANYMORE UNSOUND THAN IN THE PAST EITHER. IN FACT NOT TOO LONG AGO AN ARTICLE WAS PUBLISHED COMPARING AVERAGE NUMBER OF STARTS ETC FOR TODAYS HORSES COMPARED TO YESTERDAYS HORSES AND IT DID NOT SUPPORT THE UNSOUNDNESS THEORY. HAS MR PROSPECTOR HAD SOME UNSOUND OFFSPRING? SURE BUT HE ALSO SIRED 1178 FOALS-DON'T YOU THINK SOME MAY BE UNSOUND? HE ALSO SIRED A DERBY WINNER AND A TON OF EXCEPTIONAL HORSES. A LARGER NUMBER OF FOALS WILL LEAD TO SOME HAVING PROBLEMS - COMPARE HIS TOTAL WITH THOSE OF YEARS AGO FOR EXAMPLE BOLD RULER WHO SIRED ONLY 246 FOALS. HORSES ARE NOT RACED AS OFTEN TODAY WHICH IS A GOOD THING AND THEY HAVE SHORTER CAREERS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO VALUABLE AS BREEDING ANIMALS SO OWNERS RETIRE THEM-WHICH I DON'T AGREE WITH. INJURIES HAVE ALWAYS HAPPENED BUT THEY ARE MORE PUBLIC TODAY. CIRCUMSTANCES ARE ACTUALLY MUCH BETTER FOR THE HORSES NOW AND ARE IMPROVING ALL THE TIME WHICH IS GREAT! SO PLEASE KNOW THE FACTS BEFORE PUTTING DOWN RACING!

Note from Scot: I appreciate your thoughtful reply... but please use lower-case type in the future. Thanks!

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

hank — Tue, 06 May 2008 22:49:46 GMT

Love mdtbred's comments. Citation ran in the derby trial. and then back in the derby, ran again in-between Preakness and Belmont.Train them 4furlongs and then run them mile and a quarter. Then comment in chart, close tired, that's all i read tired, tired. This is very knowledgeable blog. The breeding has hurt the durability of horses, drug have hurt. If you think they are running off the feed bucket, you are foolish. Now every horse need bleeding med. I remember working at the track and can't recall ever having a bleeder.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

aztb — Tue, 06 May 2008 13:12:18 GMT

derby post time until recently was 5:30, now post ime 6:05. This Derby went off at 6:15. Do to the later post time there are many shadows all the way across the racetrack. Any one who has ridden horses knows there adversion to dark areas. The last thing they need is to be distracted by shadows, disrubts the stride, resulting in injury.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

mdtbred — Tue, 06 May 2008 11:57:48 GMT

It was great to see a filly beat all but one of the boys and very bad for racing when she went down. Unfortunately, I believe, that it is not the track that is a fault, but the trainers. If you watch the race she does appear to take an awkward step before the finish and she does drift toward the rail before the wire, because she was tired. She had never raced beyond 1 1/16 miles and was not prepared to run 1 1/4 miles. She ran the last part of the race on heart alone. If you trained a human athlete the way we "train" horses not only would you not win, but you would be laughed at. Where is the logic in breezing a horse 4 furlongs when you expect it to race 10 furlongs. The horses need to be trained with longer but somewhat slower works to prepare them for what is expected of them, longer gallops and more 2:00 licks. Then our horses would not be so tired. They would be able to race more often and they would not bleed from the pressures on their lungs because they would be truly FIT!

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

EMD — Tue, 06 May 2008 11:10:03 GMT

The Belle of the Ball deserves:-

A race named in her honor

Eclipse for 3 year old filly

Burial at the Downs, in tribute

This is all we can do for her now, and she deserves it

RIP Belle.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

buckhornfarm — Tue, 06 May 2008 10:23:33 GMT

I'd like to see the industry move away form drugs/steroids like Europe. Move toward synthetic tracks. And no racing of 2 yo until after Sept 1 of their 2 yo year. And stop those breezying practises at sales.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

jdz033 — Tue, 06 May 2008 03:45:06 GMT

My heart goes out to Mr. Porter and all of the connections of Eight Belles. She truly was a special horse, but I feel what is lost is the fact that Big Brown put on an absolute show. I know he has a tough road ahead in the Triple Crown but he stands out in a weak crop of 3-year olds. As I watched Sportscenter this evening they had a 5 minute segment on the Derby and failed to mention the brilliance of Big Brown. People in the media only want to portray the downside rather than the upside to a story and that is what saddens me the most!

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

arliss — Tue, 06 May 2008 02:08:40 GMT

Get real, people, is this breakdown any worse than the $3000 claimer at CharlesTown? The genetic makeup of the thoroughbred race horse will always be susceptible to this kind of tragedy. Too much stress, too little support in the hoof area of the horse. It is just what it is. I am glad you bleeding - hearts liberals now voice your concern. It is a risk. It can happen to any horse.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

Edzepplin — Tue, 06 May 2008 00:55:08 GMT

I looked up stats for Unbridleds Song and found "nothing" that supports Five cross files statements about the unbridled line as well as Chips. His stats are aboove or well above industry averages in almost all categories of starter staististics, winners, stakes winners ect. In fact the Unbridled sire line has been one of the most if not the most important sire lines in the triple crown for the last decade. The hip shot generalization does not due Justice to the best influence of Speed and Stamina in American pedigrees. I also noticed that some scholar in the blog stated that Eight Belles was "bred Wrong" Hello? The Filly just beat 18 of the best 3yo colts in America in the most important TB race in America! Give me a barm full of ill bred horses like her.Her break down had little to do with her pedigree or sire line or inbreeding. It was a tragic "accident" that could have many physical variables. Its Amazing what people can cojure up as un substantiated theories in a tragic time. 700 horses per year are euthanized due to tragic circumstances such as hers which is roughly .003% of all races. She should be champion 3 year old filly of 2008 with 5 starts 4 wins and beating the best of the rest of the 3yo boys in Americas premiere race.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

R. Fischer — Tue, 06 May 2008 00:40:29 GMT

I would like to know if the manner in which the jockey rode Eight Belles contributed to her breakdown.

Scot's reply: From multiple replays of the race, it appears Eight Belles never faltered, never hesitated, never gave any indication of pain or injury until well after crossing the finish line. Her jockey's anguish was evident as he wept and tried to comfort the filly when she was down. There's sometimes more to a story than what first appears, but I don't believe we'll find that Gabriel Sayez (or Larry Jones for that matter) did anything wrong. It was a horrible event and they feel it more than anyone else.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

Mike from Ossineke, MI — Tue, 06 May 2008 00:20:58 GMT

As much as I love thoroughbred racing, it's hard to even think about the Derby or the Preakness or Belmont. It just rips your heart out when such a beautiful and courageous animal die like that. Big Brown performed amazing and I am glad for him, but Eight Belles gave so much in that race. I know she will be running with Barbaro and Ruffian in a field full of clover and butterflies. Maybe Eight Belles death will somehow make racing safer and save some horses lives. I really don't know if I can watch the Preakness or Belmont this year, just too hard.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

oldArlingtonfan — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:57:06 GMT

Now that Polytrack has been proven to greatly reduce the number of serious on-track injuries, there is simply no reason why any racetrack in America should continue to run horses on dirt. Do the right thing, Churchill Downs. Rest in peace, Eight Belles.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

lobieb — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:38:12 GMT

When will breeders and horsemen learn, cut out the steriods, don't let them race until the ARE three so that the bones can mature. What is happening today. Horses race only a few times a year, take a look back years ago, those horses would race two -three times a week and still held up....inbreeding to get the FASTER horse should be rethought by all.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

Moneyisn'teverything — Mon, 05 May 2008 22:04:00 GMT

As a stallion owner and breeder, I think we seriously need to police ourselves or we will lose everything we've worked for. I'd like to see the following:

1) Take a hard look at our stallions which have inherent, life-threatening defects and ban them from being breeding stock, regardless of how brilliant and talented their offspring might be for less than 10 career starts over three or four years (if that long).

2) Limit a new stallion's book to no more than 50 mares, so we stop flooding the market with well-bred failures that add nothing to the breed. It adds value to the stallions that do sire quality horses and limits the number of bad horses and the number of horses, period. If the horse is a success, his babies will be worth more, which should reasonably satisfy the bane of the industry - the high end market breeder (You know..."Breed the hottest stallion to the hottest mare and who cares if it's a bad match - it'll be worth millions!").

3) Ban the use of Lasix, steroids and every other last minute tool of the trade for so-called trainers and lets see how long it takes to rebuild the breed and find out who the real trainers are. Constant drug use weakens bones in humans and racehorses. They don't have these breakdowns in countries that limit or ban "performance" drug use.

4) Open up the stud book to Arabians and Akhal Tekes (the horses that originally gave the breed it's stamina, intelligence and much of it's strength)to help rebuild the breed and introduce some fresh blood into the mix before we paint ourselves into a corner.

5) Encourage, foster, and campaign for a return to distance racing (1-1/2 or more) to bring the Thoroughbred back to its roots. Speed is fine, but I'm sick of seeing a full card of races all under 1 mile.

6)Realize that we would encourage the breed in many ways if we wrote more maiden and allowance races for distances from 9 furlongs to 14, thus giving more horses a chance to be successful and encourage racing at those greater distances.

All of these things could be accomplished if it gets driven from the top down. The question is who at the top is brave enough to shake up the status quo for the good of our breed and sport?

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

longtime racing fan — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:55:01 GMT

We could do well to look at the rest of the world, where turf racing dominates... long races, exciting stretch runs with many potential winners... and horses race DRUG FREE.

It only takes one mis-step, no matter what the surface or pedigree.

As to bringing in Arabians, as a longtime Arabian breeder and lifelong TB fan, it's an intriguing idea. BUT--- be careful that the Arabians considered, if ever, if any, are from longtime performance lines OUTSIDE the show ring. Many of the lines bred for show-ring pizazz are even more unsoundly structured than what has been mentioned above. I would suggest looking to endurance lines --- a horse that can go 100 miles in one day, over broken, rough terrain, is worth looking into.

I agree about the speed shows at sales. That's just asking for trouble. How many fast sale horses have had long and/or successful racing careers?

Look at Citation, as recently as 60 years ago he ran and won just a few days before the Derby. And then he won the Preakness and Belmont... and raced for 3 more years past his Triple Crown season...

Why is it that so many current TB sires look like short-legged, chunky Quarter Horses? Is it because the breed is being bred ever closer to QH conformation just for the short-burst speed? Look at the historic sires and notice the difference in structure...

Big Brown, well done. Eight Belles, well done.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

Ed — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:50:47 GMT

Wouldn't it be great if we retired the Triple Crown races this year when Big Brown in crowned?

Then starting in 2009, we inaugurate the Triple Crown Races but, this time, for 4 year-olds only. It will be a more exciting and definitive series in finding the best horse in America. Four-year olds will prove a sturdier bunch and will be less likely to break down.

What a great idea!

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

shamfan — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:22:41 GMT

My wife and I witnessed Eight Belles' victories in the Martha Washington, Honeybee (G3) and Fantasy (G2). Because of her price, I kept trying to beat her. Never could. I was foolish to try. Hope they bury her remains at Oaklawn. She clearly loved that track and her many fans there loved her. It would also be nice if Oaklawn named one of its 3 year old filly stakes in her memory.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

quarterhossgal — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:07:47 GMT

Another great race was saddened by the loss of Eight Belles, how many great horses must sacrifice their lives before racing makes some needed changes? Synthetic tracks and let the horses mature before racing. There is enough money in the sport to make this happen for our equine athletes.

re: Bittersweet Derby and How Our Picks Fared

Shad — Mon, 05 May 2008 20:25:59 GMT

Thoroughbreds are magnificently cared for and loved while they are winning and producing-if they can do neither they wind up in slaughterhouses!

How about only breeding sound horses For example even if Big Brown won the Triple Crown-his foot problems would disqualify him as a stallion