Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

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re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

marc W — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:02:58 GMT

Thanks for your insights

Anybody in the "Business" want to comment?

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

sceptre — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:43:15 GMT

Re: LauraR's suggestion of Giant's Causeway for Pround Spell:

She offered several reasons for this mating, among which are the "sex balanced RF to Crimson Saint through Terlingua on top and her half brother Encino..." This brings up an interesting issue, and one I've often wrestled with.- The relatative advantages to inbreeding/linebreeding may rise or fall depending upon the merit of the sources. One can never be sure of the qualities received from any specific ancestor, but all else equal, the racing and breeding record of the immediate decendant should have bearing. Yes, Crimson Saint appears to be a very special influence-a superior influence for speed, and no doubt contributed prominently in Storm Cat's success at stud. Her speed influence is so remarkable that when she was mated with Nijinsky II and Secretariat (twice)--both sires noted more as distance influences-all resulting offspring demonstrated great speed. But Encino was not a top horse, nor a particularly good sire (although he received only limited opportunity)-so with the above in mind, one must question how "positive" was Crimson Saint's contribution to his genome, and then, in turn, how positive would be his Crimson Saint contribution (resultant RF) to the prospective Giant's Causeway- Proud Spell. I.E., the paper pedigree might suggest one thing, but what is received in reality? The flip side to this specific analysis (Encino) is the fact that Encino was quick, and likely inherited much of his quickness directly from Crimson Saint's genetic contribution. So this piece of evidence does suggest that, at least, Encino carries some of her positive "speed-creating" genes. Consider had Encino not demonstrated much speed-that might also tell us something re-what he inherited from Crimson Saint. Depending upon Encino's generational postion, one must then move forward with similar analysis in attempting to predict what those decendants may have received...I realize that all this was quite long-winded, and not artfully explained, but may be worthy of thought when planning matings.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

marc W — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:13:07 GMT

Off topic but it is another Jones horse, but curious because I have done this before through another with success. (I talked a friend of mine to buying shares in lightly raced, well bred horse--he did very well with him--I am secure enough financially now to do it myself)

What to you think shares in Old Fashioned would be a fair price?

With him retiring I think he has the makings of a good stud and in this depressed market-it may be a time to come in again.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

Luvthehorses — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:02:17 GMT

Good luck to Proud Spell. I hope that she has lots of people that will give her all of the love and care that she so rightly deserves.

Hope you have a great life.

I will miss seeing you race, as you are such a beauty.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

da3hoss — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:42:48 GMT

"racetrack fit," is that what coming off Regu-mate and/or other hormone implants is called, LOl.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

darlene — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 05:00:40 GMT

what a beautiful champion proud spell is I hope she has a long and happy life and all her foals will have happy lives to . Darlene.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

Laura R — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:50:26 GMT

Scott,

PS - Hat Trick would be an interesting match too.

Laura R

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

Laura R — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:46:32 GMT

Scott,

I’d really like them to send Proud Spell to Giant’s Causeway. The foal would have Secretariat top and bottom through his two best daughters, Terlingua and Secrettame, a sex-balanced RF to Crimson Saint through Terlingua on top and her half brother Encino, Proud Spell’s third damsire. Encino and Storm Cat are out of Northern Dancer sires with Crimson Saint close up in both pedigrees.

Frost Giant (Giant’s Causeway /Gone West mare) won from 7F on turf to 10F on dirt and has similar breeding to the prospective foal. Overall, Giant’s Causeway bred to Mr. Prospector sire line mares has produced 17 graded stakes winners.

Another “If I could breed her to anyone” stallion I’d choose is Dance With Ravens. Yes, his two year olds have yet to run, but have you seen that pedigree (A.P. Indy out of Dance Smartly)? I predict he’ll follow Malibu Moon to Kentucky in a few years. The prospective foal would have a sex-balanced cross of Danzig on each distaff side and A.P. Indy over Mr. Prospector sire line has given us 53 Graded stakes winners.

Scot's reply: Neat ideas! Great thinking with the Crimson Saint double, taking advantage of the fairly obscure Encino.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

Skyfire — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:45:18 GMT

She was a wonderful race filly - good luck Proud Spell!!

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

Ida Lee — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:30:42 GMT

I loved watching Proud Spell race. What a beautiful girl! I know she'll be a great Mommy just like she was a great Champion. I hope she has a lot of beautiful babies and stays healthy. Thanks for the memories Pretty Girl!!! And to her connections, please take good care of her. We love her so much.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

racingismygame — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:01:35 GMT

inbredding needs to stop, the gene pool is too small, thats the reason horses break down, bred for speed and thats it. it really annoys me but i love this sport.

Scot's reply: Actually, I think you're misinterpreting some of the data out there. This is a common belief that needs to be dispelled. Inbreeding to individuals with a known tendency to pass on bad traits is indeed a problem. Inbreeding itself, however, is not. There is zero correlation between the concept of inbreeding and the reality of breakdowns. In fact, inbreeding to sources known for stamina and durability is probably one of the best solutions to bring physical stability back to some lines that are more prone to training-induced breakdowns.

re: Quick Change of Plans for Proud Spell

sceptre — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:44:25 GMT

No argument at all with Gov. Jones' decision to breed her to Indian Charlie. Indian Charlie certainly does appear to appreciate Mr. P. I've used this cross often, both for myself and clients-and I'm not one wedded much to "nicking" per se. Indian Charlie has proved to be as brilliant a sire as he was a racehorse. Some, though, are too fast for their size (not unlike Unbridled's Song-but I did breed a good one from that specific cross) so they need to be observed/evaluated closely.