Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Pedigree Shelly — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:38:38 GMT

Scot, Thank you for the information ! By the way I'm working on my reasearch ! :)

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Pedigree Shelly — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:43:10 GMT

Hey Scot , I know this might be way off the subject ,but I've been dying to ask you this Question ! What do you think of the Bruce Lowe numbers on female families ? I find it quite interesting !! I found out that Pulpit and Northern Dancer come from family # 2 ! There are are many others too numerous to mention !The book I like to use for reference is called Champion Horses by Maurizio Bongianni .He covers every horse from Eclipse to Secretariat !

Scot's reply: I'm all about female families! You'll notice that I include family numbers in many of my posts. I touched on the numbering system a while back in an old post: Thoroughbred Female Families -- Family 4 Goes 1-2 in Alabama Stakes. ... If you're not already a subscriber to TBH MarketWatch, now's a great time to start getting this professional newsletter. Starting in the July issue, there's a feature series on "sire-producing families." Avalyn Hunter explores the trend of certain families producing top-ranked sires. She starts off with a feature on family 13-c, which is responsible for Seattle Slew and Mr. Prospector, among many others.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Pedigree Shelly — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:42:24 GMT

I think Rockport Harbor would be a good choice ! Idid the hypothetical mating and it looked pretty good ! The only inbreeding was Northern Dancer on the dams side >

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Pedigree Shelly — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:48:37 GMT

What do you think about Rockport Harbor as a possible mate for Dreamlike ?? From what I saw ,his pedigree is pretty much free of Northern Dancer ,plus he has a good Dosage rating of 1.67 with a CD of O.17 !! What do you think ??

Scot's reply: You have to go back six generations in Rockport Harbor (SRO) to find Northern Dancer so in that respect it's a good outcross. For a mare like Dreamlike (unraced but with a couple of good winners) I'd personally opt for a stallion whose career included 20+ races. (Rockport Harbor was a good juvenile stakes winner and took an 8 1/2-furlong grade III at 4, but he ran only eight times in all.)

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Diego Garcia — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:01:36 GMT

I would go to a Seattle Slew/A.-P.Indy cross with her.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

TKLawless — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:23:10 GMT

We have a 2 yo colt by Thunder Gulch o/o Fully Confident by AP Indy, the 2nd dam is Successfully, a full sister to Flawlessly....he should start at Calder in late July/early August.

I thought it'd be interesting to check TrueNicks on TG/Flawlessly and it's an A+.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

HorseFirst — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:22:19 GMT

Regarding dam sire, I've had the experience of breeding a TB mare to a warmblood, both good sized horses. The TB mare's dam was kind of the lanky type too.

The resulting foal seemed to throwback the most to the TB's damsire- a rather short, chunky TB.

Not a total TB experience but seems the dam sire in this case negated everything else, including the warmblood.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Jill — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:29:17 GMT

LOVE Flawlessly, natch. And since I feel the same way about English Channel, I can't say no to the possibility of that cross. Would also like to see either of the Street boys (-Cry and -Sense) but then I'm also a fan of Candy Ride.

Such a lovely pedigree, so many choices. If anyone would like to gift me a daughter, I won't say no, LOL!

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

sceptre — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:45:11 GMT

To Michael D:

Re-Queen Sucree, you may be correct. I know that Franklin Groves purchased her at Keeneland (from John M. Olin Estate) for big bucks, while in-foal to Bold Bidder. This was November, 1976.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

David — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:02:29 GMT

One of my favorite Flawlessly races is when she and Hatoof were neck and neck at Arlington in the Beverly D. That was a good race.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Michael D — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:21:22 GMT

Thanks sceptre, I believe Queen Sucree was the first million dollar broodmare, caring a full brother to Cannonade, correct?

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

sceptre — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:32:12 GMT

Just thought I should add a bit more, and say a few words about Flawlessly's spectacular heritage.-While Natalma seems to get most of the press, her 1/2-sister, Cosmah, was the far superior producer. Those less familiar should really take a close look. In addition to Flawlessly's 2nd dam, La Dame Du Lac (a Saratoga sale-topper), Cosmah also produced Halo, Maribeau (very gifted), Father's Image (among the best 2 yr. olds of his year), Queen Sucree (KY. Derby producer), and, best of all, the nearly incomparable Tosmah. Tosmah was truly brilliant, and could stretch. I rarely missed a race of hers, often cut school to watch her up close, and did finally manage to acquire one of her rare granddaughters. A real shame that she never had the opportunity to display her gifts as a broodmare (her one decent cross-to Ribot-produced a filly that died young). Had things transpired otherwise, I'm certain Tosmah's name would have gone on in pedigrees for generations and generations. The two most talented fillies I've ever witnessed were Numbered Account and Tosmah.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

sceptre — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:19:46 GMT

From the looks of Woke Up Dreamin, suspect that Dreamlike bears little physical resemblance to Flawlessly, and is much more the Storm Cat-type in appearance (too bad). Affirmed's get were somewhat elegant, with leg, and La Confidence gave them a bit more body, and strength, without loss of leg or quality. Looks as if Storm Cat negated the leg and overall nice refinement. Flawlessly's daughter, Dreamlike, wasn't offered much help in this regard, as of her mates only Holy Bull can, at times, offer some "leg" (but generally, not refinement). Can't tell for certain, but suspect that Dreamlike may have had soundness issues. This causes some hesitancy when suggestimg two possible mates for Dreamlike; Indian Charlie and Unbridled's Song.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Michael D — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:01:14 GMT

Sorry, I forgot to mention, Broken Vow to Flawlessly is an A++ TrueNick. Thanks, I love these articles, great fun!

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Michael D — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:56:05 GMT

My suggestion would be to try Broken Vow or Eurosilver as I have seen many times seen phenotypic resemblance to the broodmare sire rather than the sire. This cross has produced graded winners and creates a 3x4 to the great

Nijinsky II. I believe Flawlessly's greatness came from him and Broken Vow's photographs show similarities. Any thoughts regarding the apparent dominance of a broodmare sire over the sire?

Scot's reply: I'm interested to hear what others think, as well. Personally, I think the best example of that phenomenon in recent times is Fappiano (pedigree), whose influence is much more on the lines of damsire Dr. Fager than the typical Mr. Prospector traits.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Michael Sena — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:25:02 GMT

After reading the comments on Woke Up Dreaming i a'm really excited about a yearling filly that we have at Millemium Farm out of a Sulrty Song mare "Blue Song" that was horse of the year in NM in 2005.We hope she will follow in the great footsteps of her family.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

hardlyhatful — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:18:17 GMT

I'm guessing because Woke Up Dreaming was a later developer and not be a hot commercial sire they haven't returned to Holy Bull.

I'd be taking her back to Smart Strike or even Curlin, especially if your looking to sell as a yearling.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Jim P — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:13:36 GMT

For Mike S, Tiznow checked in with an A++ for Dreamlike.

There were quite a few more A++ ratings for this apparently versatile mare. The variants varied (no pun intended -- I don't understand them anyhow). These stallions included:

Albert The Great, Candy Ride, Curlin, English Channel, Mr. Greeley, Street Cry, and Street Sense.

Stallions rated an A included Alphabet Soup, Lemon Drop Kid and Unbridled's Song.

Awesome Again was a B+.

In addition to sending Dreamlike back to Smart Strike or Holy Bull, I would suggest Mr. Greeley or Candy Ride. Mr. Greeley had quite a few graded winners on the cross. Candy Ride has done well with lesser mares. Of course, I would love Tiznow as well.

re: Mating Choices -- Flawlessly

Mike S — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:30:37 GMT

I absolutely loved FLAWLESSLY, I think she was one of the greatest turf mares of all time. I would go out of my way, literally, to be at the racetrack when she ran. What a gorgeous girl she was.

Her only surviving daughter, DREAMLIKE, should probably be sent back to HOLY BULL, I would say. Of course, I would love to see her have a foal by TIZNOW as well.