Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

begoodmike — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:10:07 GMT

Steph you stole my thunder,

Mingun was my pick for her

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Hannah — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:00:30 GMT

Dynaformer would be a great choice for her, and then we could hope for a son of his at stud. I would also like to see a breeding to El Prado or his son Medalia d'Oro. If you are going to consider sons of Mr P, certainly Kingmambo is no loser.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

EarlySpeed — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:27:23 GMT

If I didn't have to get ready for work right now, I would have been going to all the major racing stables on line with a free nick rating option and would have been matching Serena's Song. I love what Rahy has been able to do as a sire and broodmare sire. An old mating method, give a stallion back the best of his dam......

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Robert — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 02:29:25 GMT

The one thing Serena's Song needs is stamina. Unbridleds Song won't give it to her, nor will Distorted Humor. As for inbreeding to Rahy....Why not? I would risk a sesaon to inbreed to this top stallion. Medaglia d'Oro is another hot pick. Size and stamina in one fantastic package. I would send her to Lemon Drop Kid. Pedigree, size, stamina, and a Belmont winner. Finally, I would send her to Quiet American. A daughter of his is a gold mine.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

CRob87 — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:34:24 GMT

At this point in her broodmare career and with a limited number of "Great Stallion" choices here in the States that she hasn't already been to multiple times, I'm actually surprised that they haven't thought about shipping her over seas to Europe to try her with some of the "Best Stallions" that they have to offer.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Daniel — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:19:58 GMT

this is by far my favorite race mare and the people at Denali have been so awesome when i wrote them recently about here.. When she retired many felt she would be a flop, to have the success she has had on the track, at the auctions and then watch her foals excell on the track and now as broodmares and exciting stallions.. I think she has proven what a amazing horse she is..

If i were sitting down to breed Serena my choices would be: North Light.. just an attmpt to take her to the Danehill/Danzig line.. its also an A++ nick.. I would also consider El Prado (iRE), Pulpit, Bernardini. Successful Appeal, Smoke Glacken, and Quiet American..

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

sceptre — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:24:13 GMT

In the scheme of things, Serena's Song chosen mate is of little importance. This blog (unlike many others), though, often serves as a tool for education, so in that vein Craig Bandaroff's observations seem worthy of comment.- Craig offers that they have always tried to breed her to stallions that would give her offspring size and leg. A look at those selected finds only three who have fit that criteria: Deputy Minister, Unbridled, and Unbridled's Song. Craig offers that Storm Cat was used so often in the hope of getting fillies that would be retained. Why would a Storm Cat filly (later broodmare) be more worthy of retention than those of other prominent stallions? For one, he wasn't then, or is he now, considered to be an elite broodmare sire (such designations are often questionable, anyway).

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

KMAUER — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:21:18 GMT

What about a Tiznow or Birdstone mating for her? Both stallions are off to a great start and offer both speed and stamina. I think it would be worth a shot.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Terry — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:42:22 GMT

I think you are all so fortunate to have such a great mare and to have unlimited choices in who to mate her to. I am anxious to see the Street Cry filly! (Yes, I am keeping my fingers crossed for you, it WILL be a filly!) I like that cross.

I still like Hat Trick as a future mate for her, as he is free of both Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer (which will be important in the future, as almost every horse seems to carry Mr. P and/or the Dancer now) and he is a good size. I have never seen him in person, but in his photo he looks wonderful. I know hwe may be less marketable, but for a foal to keep as opposed toone for the sales, I'd consider him.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

American Dad — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:17:13 GMT

The other dominant sire line of the recent past that has not been tapped is that of Danzig. The Danzig-Rahy cross is strong and many of the sons of Danzig currently at stud could provide the right physical balance for the rather diminutive Serena's Song. Obvious choices include Langfuhr and War Chant or early career sire Hard Spun. If she could be shipped, even better options may be available in Europe with Green Desert and his sons, Cape Cross or Invincible Spirit.

The other direction to go in is to Sadler's Wells line stallions such as El Prado or Galileo in order to get a more classic distance pedigree in the offspring.

Since so much success in the family has been on the turf and Serena's Song had class plus, it may be time to look outside of the US for the right stallion. I'm sure the good people at Darley and Coolmore would be happy to have her over to Ireland for a little holiday.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Craig Bandoroff — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:19:11 GMT

As the person responsible for helping arrange these matings first with Mr. Lewis and now with his son, Jeff, and Mrs. Lewis I thought I'd chime in. So here goes:

Serena as you probably know is not the biggest mare in the world so we have always tried to breed her to stallions that will give her offspring size and leg. That is the reason we have not tried Distorted Humour for example. Dynaformer is an excellent idea.

She has admittedly been to Storm Cat too many times but we kept doing it because we were hoping we would get fillies knowing they would be retained by the Lewises. Unfortunately she didn't quite cooperate and kept giving us colts!

The one Storm Cat filly that was retained, Pure Symmetry, has had very exciting first two foals and we are very pleased about her potential.

Serena is in foal this year to Street Cry. Of all her foals the Unbridled Song filly she has by her side now is one of her best. I'd say we very well may try that again although Jeff, Mrs. Lewis and I have not discussed it yet.

Thank you for including her in your discussions. We are very proud of her and I'm overwhelmed when I look at her production record. She is a once in a life time type mare and we have been blessed to have her and play a part in her career as a broodmare. Frankly it's been an honor and I am very grateful the Lewis family entrusted her to us.

Craig Bandoroff

Owner, Denali Stud

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Terry — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 04:44:02 GMT

How about Hat Trick? He is pretty much a total outcross, something that hasn't been tried with her. He's by Sunday Silence out of a Damascus granddaughter and he was no slouch on the track, winning over $3-million. I think a lot of potentially great stallions get overlooked as everyone goes for the popular ones.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

serena's song — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:48:39 GMT

I have heard also that she is going to Street Cry as well. I like Dynaformer for her as well. Enjoyed reading this article very much!

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Peds — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:11:02 GMT

It's a shame there's not a good stallion with Habitat in his pedigree State-side, because her pedigree is built around inbreeding to that family being out of a Northfields mare who is out of a Dancer's Image mare.

Habitat would provide more of that family with a possible RF to his dam Little Hut, via his half-brother Northfields.

Her daughters are worth their weight in gold with every single one with horses of racing age producing blacktype.

With that in mind, and with two of her sons already at stud in the US, I'd shoot for a future broodmare and send her to strong broodmare sires.

Dynaformer is a logical go-to that would provide a pedigree almost completely free of any of the major sirelines. A daughter would be worth her weight in genetic gold.

IF the comment of her being bred to Street Cry is correct, that's an inspired mating in my opinion. Not only do you have Halo inbreeding, but you also have an RF to Natalma, that is reenforced with the 5x5 RF Serena's Song already has to Almahmoud, the dam of Natalma and the 2nd dam of Halo. Concentrations of Almahmoud blood is never a bad thing in my book.

An interesting and more left field cross would be with Cherokee Run. Blushing Groom inbreeding has shown some very real success and she also brings in another line of Nasrullah that Cherokee Run usually finds in his better runners.

Ghostzapper is another who brings in Blushing Groom as well as more Northern Dancer, which one could argue are two of the main influences in her pedigree. If his juveniles show talent, he'd be an option on my list. She's certainly sound enough to offset any of his physical issues.

And just as a hail Mary, I'd love to see her go to Yes It's True. Her biggest physical drawback is her size and lack of leg underneath her, and he throws size and substance, as well as versatile speed, which has worked well for her in mates. I also love the Nasrullah and Nearctic additions. If the foal took after what it should on paper, it would be very much like the dam in aptitude, a very fast horse who could command the pace and stretch it out on absolute class.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

sceptre — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 01:50:25 GMT

At this point in her produce career (mediocre when compared to her phenotype) I'd probably attempt some creative linebreeding. From the very beginning of her broodmare career, nothing ever stood out as great mates for her-and she's not all that well bred. Pat's Irish and good genes from Rahy did, perhaps, contribute in large part to her phenotypic excellence, as well as the linebreeding to Tudor Minstrel through two good sources. At this point I'd like to load her up with the "right" Tom Fool and Lady Josephine sources. Nothing much today stands out in this regard, but I'd probably opt for El Prado or Pivotal.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Kerby Chua — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 01:39:14 GMT

I would want to see Serena's Song bred to either Awesome Again or Street Cry...

The Awesome Again x Serena's Song mating would yield a reverse parallel of Northern Dancer 4Sx4D/Blushing groom 3Sx3D. You can see Blushing Groom's 3x3 linebreeding coming from the x and y.

While the Street Cry x Serena's Song mating would produce a 5x5 Native Dancer, 4x4 Halo and 5x5 Rasmussen Factor linebreeding to the great mare Natalma.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

AnneM — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:12:46 GMT

Medaglia D'Oro would be a great choice - not only ND but Damascus and Sir Ivor in his pedigree

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Ranagulzion — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:00:06 GMT

Candy Ride should in all probability nick with Serena's Song using Serena's Tune and Harlington as indicators from the Raise A Native line through son Mr Prospector and grandson Fappiano respectively. Also a 5 x 4 Blushing Groom cross through Candy Stripes on top and Rahy on the bottom should be highly potent in that offspring. Candy Ride is throwing winners.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Springsmom83 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:12:42 GMT

Another interesting nick could be Point Given. He rates an A++. Just a thought. She really does not nick too well with most of the "stylish" stallions of today through True Nicks.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Springsmom83 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:25:40 GMT

Did some playing with True Nicks for what it is worth. She rates an A++ with Dynaformer, A+ with Big Brown, and an A with Medaglia d'Oro. She does not appear to be a good nick with many of the "popular" stallions of today. It might be worth going one of the above to try and see if there is a good nick.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Pedigree Shelly — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:41:05 GMT

My second choice would be Pulpit ! His Multiple graded stakes winning daughter Rutherienne was produced by a daughter of Rahy !

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Fast Lady — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:26:30 GMT

Although I doubt they would ever go for this, because Serena's Song is such a high class mare, I would personally like to see her bred to Mingun.

That would be a very strong female family, with Miesque as a grandparent. She has only been bred to A.P. Indy once, correct?

He may not have won a whole lot, but his pedigree speaks for him. It usually never works out with mares being an excellent racehorse and a producer, so I don't think they have a whole lot to lose.

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Stephanie — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:50:56 GMT

I thought I had seen somewhere that Serena was bred to Street Cry for 2010. Perhaps I am mistaken...

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

Pedigree Shelly — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:40:51 GMT

I did some research on the cross of Big Brown /Serena's Song ,this is what I found...

Inbreeding-

Northern Dancer-4sX4sX4d

Damascus-4sX5s

Nearctic-5sX5sX5d

Natalma -5sX5sX5d with a dosage profile of 6 3 13 0 0 and a DI of 2.38 with a CD of 0.68 . I know there is alot of inbreeding there but,she's had success with Storm Cat who is from the Northern Dancer line. What do you think Scot ??

Scot's reply: Well, it would be the first time since Unbridled she'd visited a stallion that made more than her on the track....

re: Mating Choices -- Serena's Song

just wondering — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:33:15 GMT

I'd send her to Smart Strike.