French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

French Classics Are Boon For Irish National Stud

TrueNicks — Wed, 13 May 2009 20:48:09 GMT

Alan Porter reviews the bloodlines of newly-minted classic winners Elusive Wave and Silver Frost, heroes of the French One and Two Thousand Guineas.

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

Stephi S. — Wed, 13 May 2009 00:01:01 GMT

Lovely article, and very interesting comment from American Dad. Just one thing, though. "Prix" means prize, not race. So the Prix du Jockey Club would be translated as The Jockey Club Prize, or Cup. Similar to our own Jockey Club Gold Cup.

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

American Dad — Tue, 12 May 2009 23:41:48 GMT

If I can offer my 2 cents (or pence), the turf racing in Europe is very different than American turf racing on a number of fronts. Firstly, the tracks are seldom level or banked ovals, they are undulating and variable, often rising and falling considerably with many having strength sapping uphill finishes. Secondly, the courses are seldom firm or even good. They are usually good to soft, even in drought due to the extensive watering undertaken by the grounds people. The European horses seldom race on a firm course and many trainers want a lot of cut in the ground. Lastly, there are too few races in the US for horses to specialize in turf route events because very few courses have turf courses that are suitable. Courses all over Europe offer turf courses up to 3 miles, often without retracing a single stride. The only thing close in the US is Kentucky Downs. Therefore, the horses are bred to excel on the courses available, just like American horses are bred to excel on dirt ovals. Even a good turf miler in the US would need to be a wonder horse to face an uphill finish like at Epsom, where the Derby is 1 1/2 miles, starts uphill, goes downhill and then finishes uphill, all on a horseshoe-shaped track. What would the distance for an equivalent race on a tight turf oval in the US be? 2 Miles? More? Eventually, an American based horse will try one of these distances but it will be an older horse with proven stamina, like Curlin who was considered for the Arc but the money is better for most of the races in the States so why would an owner take the risk?

I think the better question is why are American based jump horses not coming to Europe for the big meets like Cheltenham. The Gold Cup carries a ~$650000 purse and is held in March. What are the jump horses doing in March in America. Working on their tans in Ocala or South Carolina waiting on Aiken or Everglades? If they can't get the 3+ miles of the Gold Cup, they could run in any number of races at the meet. Or better yet, how about running an American horse on December 26 for a ~$200000 purse going 2 miles over hurdles at Kempton outside London? Pierrot Lunaire did it, fell 3 out and still came back to beat Good Night Shirt last week in the Iroquois (2 1/4 Miles over hurdles).(Yes, he was bought by an American for the purpose of running in the Iroquois). This is a long way of saying, many of the horses bred in Europe are not focused on oval racing because they have many other options, including jumps (National Hunt, by definition in the UK) that have legitimate purses. If there are no races for stamina based horses in the US, there will be no horses bred that way. Create a legitimate National Hunt style year around, big dollar jump racing circuit and people will breed horses to race on it.

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

ArchDandy — Tue, 12 May 2009 22:31:32 GMT

Ive got a mare by a son of Topsider, out of a mare by Erins Isle who is made to go 1 1/2 miles + on turf= in the US she is as good as a bottom level claimer without races to suit.

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

mz — Tue, 12 May 2009 17:41:51 GMT

Oh man... Paris in the spring!

At least I made it to the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in the late 80's!

(Memory: me and the French guy having an argument over possible winners in the betting line all the way up to the betting clerk and then both of us being shut out because the race started in the year that Carroll House won the Arc ... and I was supposed to bet on him because I was there with a women whose last name was "Carroll")

I like to keep up with the Europeans every year but I want to know what happened to the American filly who was going (possibly) to the 2000 Guineas or the Oaks this year. Is she still going?

And what do you think are the chances that an American horse might actually consider getting to the Arc? It's as major a race as the Dubai World Cup or the Breeders Cup races. Why don't more (North) American horses consider going over?

Is is because American grass horses think 1 1/4 miles is too far?

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

American Dad — Tue, 12 May 2009 12:27:17 GMT

Having been at Longchamp on Sunday, it was interesting to compare the conformation of the "American" influenced horses and the "European" influenced horses. Both of the Group 1 winners, Silver Frost and Elusive Wave, are conformed like "American" flat racers: short coupled, more upright, and large hipped. The 1600m distance at Longchamp is virtually all downhill to flat around 2 gentle bends, easily allowing horses that would otherwise not get the mile distance, to excel. Both Silver Frost and Elusive Wave are attractive, well conformed sorts (as evidenced by their purchase prices)that are improving but Silver Frost looks to have the more potential to stretch out, both physically and on paper. Elusive Wave snuck off the front end and stayed there while Silver Frost passed good horses and went 1.5 seconds faster for the race. It is also interesting to note that Elusive Wave is not only bred along American lines, she is owned by an American and has a pedigree that is proving to be very successful on the Polytrack/Tapeta/etc surfaces (Raven's Pass, a son of Elusive Quality like Elusive City did just fine on Santa Anita's surface last Fall). Don't be surprised to see her show up in the States this year, especially with Rachel Alexandra making the 3yo filly ranks look very weak. As for Silver Frost, he looks like he doesn't care what he runs on. He is well balanced and more resembles his damsire's lines with a big hip (Anabaa/Danzig) than the longer Verglas. Both his sire and damsire are in the 15.3 to 16h range and he looks to be about that size now. Verglas is virtually white while Silver Frost, is well, silver frost! He has a very attractive metallic look to his coat which on first appearance could be any color it is so shiny. He has shown he likes more cut in the ground in his previous races and the additional distances in the Derbys should not provide a problem, especially with his acceleration in the lane on Sunday. Another fun horse to follow between now and the Breeder's Cup. It looks like another year for the European invasion come October.

Scot's reply: Thanks for the insights! Great to hear from someone who not only saw it happen but appreciated the breeding and training behind the winners.

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

Scarletandgraypimpernel — Tue, 12 May 2009 03:32:38 GMT

Too bad the French races aren't available on any of the betting sites. It's always good to get a look at some of the possible BC horses (although we can't get a good future bet in on them here).

Last year's French 1000 first three were some fairly decent fillies -- Zarkava, Goldikova, and Halfway to Heaven (Fav in BC FM Turf).

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

Dynaformer Lives — Tue, 12 May 2009 00:17:29 GMT

I'm sad to admit I did'nt even now about the French Classic Races. Thanks for a fun and some times funny article that taught me a few new things.

re: French Classic Winner Silver Frost Combines Euro, American Lines

Pedigree Shelly — Mon, 11 May 2009 22:15:31 GMT

Why arent breeders importing some stamina blood to the US ? You never see a race that is ran over a mile and1/8th miles anymore they are few and far between What's going on???