Belmont Brown?

re: Belmont Brown?

sgillies — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:39:04 GMT

Follow-up: IAEH Stables co-owner Michael Iavarone indicated in a recent interview that a $300,000 fee was considered, had Brownie won the Belmont.

re: Belmont Brown?

S JFan — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:50:59 GMT

Smarty Jones' stud fee is 100,000. I would guess that Big Brown's would be 350,000...

P.S. I didn't know Storm Cat was taken out of duty???

re: Belmont Brown?

pandora — Mon, 26 May 2008 15:17:09 GMT

Quarter cracks tend to recur, regardless of the skill with which they are repaired. Surely they have tried the supplements we use for "iffy" hooves? And they didn't work, if they were used, which in my mind makes the problem a little more serious than the horse's connections are saying. Both financial considerations and concern for the horse's feet should retire him after the Belmont. Don't believe he would beat Curlin this fall anyway, so it would be stupid to take the chance of injuring the horse. Would I want to breed a mare to a bad-footed horse? Not on your life. Though I wouldn't be surprised at a $250,000 fee to begin with if he wins the Triple Crown. If his first foals have foot trouble as well, and notice I said IF, his stud fee will drop considerably. Another consideration - unless we want the government to take over the industry, we need to begin to avoid breeding to any horse that has the slightest flaw that can lead to a breakdown. And a popped quarter certainly can. Unfortunately we won't know if his get inherited his feet until they get into training. My last horse that had bad feet was worked on by a top farrier for three years. I ended up selling him for 10% of his purchase price to be used as a pleasure horse.

re: Belmont Brown?

Karen — Fri, 23 May 2008 21:24:22 GMT

I am going to throw this out there and see if anyone agrees with me. BB is a little different than what we have seen in the most recent past for a number of reasons. Lets just push aside the fact that this colt can run. From any post, off the pace, in the lead, inside, outside. Lets just push aside the fact that he has instant acceleration when needed. Lets focus on his bloodlines and why he was in hot pursuit even before his Preakness win. If you look at BB's bloodlines, there is a whirlwind of inbreeding. It has been said that this form of inbreeding doesn't usually generate a great runner, but possibly a great sire. When BB showed up and proved his talent exists along with his incredibly interesting pedigree, you have an industry wanting to get him into the breeding shed to see what he can produce. Is it his pedigree they are all after???

re: Belmont Brown?

Billy D. — Thu, 22 May 2008 16:11:46 GMT

To Sundance: I hope your right. A also agree BB's stud fee will be insanely too high. In regards to the owners of the filly who ultimately was bred to Alydar. It was Seattle Slew's owners who declined and thought the filly wasn't fashionally bred enough.

I don't know why people aren't calling BB, by a nickname like, Brownie, the brown spot or my favorite... Splotchy! I think Splotchy fits BB the Trainer and the owners. It's certainly better than 'Fupeg' as Fusaichi Pegasus was referred to.

re: Belmont Brown?

Sundance — Mon, 19 May 2008 19:21:10 GMT

I think Casino Drive is going to kick his behind in the Belmont. I honestly don't think he can carry it 1.5 miles. But, either way, his stud fee will be ridiculously high, ~150 to 200k. He really needs to run at least thru the end of the year, if not next year.

re: Belmont Brown?

Robert — Mon, 19 May 2008 19:05:28 GMT

I think what is amazing is that horses still sell for such huge sums of money.

Big Brown, Silver Charm, Seattle Slew and countless other great horses sold for less than $100,000.

What is the point to breed to one of these stallions for such a high amount of money when in reality you have no clue what kind of race horse he or she is going to be?

Meaning, the breeding industry has somehow convinced horse buyers that a few races truly determines how good a stallion the horse will be. Also, they try to associate that when it comes to selling the sires offspring and horse owners buy into it and pay way too much for what ends up being a $25,000 claimer.

I don't think you can judge how good a horse really is when he only runs against three year olds. If BB ran against Curlin he would probably have no chance.

If horse buyers thought like me, horses would have to run to age 4 because nobody would breed to a horse that for the most part is not proven to be anything more than good for a few months. Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex come to mind.

re: Belmont Brown?

Julie L. — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:43:02 GMT

Big Brown's stud fee, it's a shame that we are discussing it so early. Seattle Slew and Affirmed both ran as four year olds and even though Spectacular Bid did not win the crown he when on at age four as well. If he wins the Crown my guess is that they will stand him at no less than $350,000 and if he should lose the crown then I say that they stand him for around $150,000. It's a shame that they have already decided not to run him at four it's a loss to horseracing and horseracing fans. We need our heros on the track like Curlin, thank god his owner was good enough to let us watch him race awhile longer. But in general we don't have them anymore. Native Dancer ran as a four year old, Seabiscuit, I know I am mentioning horses from long past but therein lies the problem we are not given the chance anymore to invest our hopes and dreams into the sport of horseracing. I do hope that we have another Triple Crown winner whether it is Big Brown or another but part of loving the prospect of of one is also predicting the possiblity of another horse just coming into his own and maybe beating Big Brown or whomever, that's what makes horseracing so great not how much financially a horse is worth but how much heart he or she is worth. I hope Curlin's owner does not bypass the Breeder's Cup due to the surface, a truly great horse can run anywhere and I think Curlin is just such a horse, sorry Big Brown but I am still waiting to see more brilliance from you if they give you the chance.

re: Belmont Brown?

Billy D. — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:03:46 GMT

IF Big Brown wins the Triple Crown, I think his tud fee will be $125k. If BB loses his stud will probably be around 80k. Do I think he's worth this much? No, simply because he isn't spectacularly bred except for his paternal grandsire. BB appears to be bred to be more of a turf miler. Remember Secretariat, Spectacular Bid & Affirmed? The only one of those who came close to being and average stud was Secretariat. Other than the few champions he sired, when you do the math compared to how many mares he was bred to?!?! The thing with setting a stud fee too high is the possibility of shutting out some potentially good broodmares. I remember a time when the owners of a mare wanted to breed to Seattle Slew but the fee was I think $125k at the time, instead the breeder went to Alydar and produced a grade I stakes winning filly whose name right now escapes me. Good luck to BB either way.

re: Belmont Brown?

Robert — Mon, 19 May 2008 16:03:40 GMT

Win or lose, Big Brown will retire. It's unfortunate but if I owned a horse worth $50 million I would retire him also.

The days of people owning and racing horses with the attitude, "My horse is better than your horse and we'll settle this on the race track," are long gone!

re: Belmont Brown?

Lure1 — Mon, 19 May 2008 15:00:41 GMT

Look at the pedigree of Big Brown. Very tightly inbred. No Mr Prospector. He will go well with AP Indy and Mr Prospector types. The problem I see is how may tighly inbred stallions have done well in the shed? Comments welcome

Scot's reply: Thanks for the opportunity to plug an old post! :-) Back at the beginning of April, I opined about Big Brown's close-up inbreeding pattern being a huge boon for him when he makes it to the breeding shed. See that post here. Additionally, a couple of days before the Derby, I edited a fascinating article that compares Big Brown's breeding patterns to those of the great Domino. Here's my old post, which includes a link to the Domino story.

re: Belmont Brown?

racingfan — Mon, 19 May 2008 03:35:07 GMT

Other than Curlin's victory in the world cup, this was the easiest win I've ever seen in a major race! I think he'll win the triple crown and I think he's a real nice horse so far but I wouldn't call him "great" if he retires after the Belmont. To be a truly great horse he would have to do more. I think his stud fee will be in the $200-300k range although I believe that to be too much. On another note: I would like to know how others feel about NBC showing actual footage of Eight Belles breakdown not five minutes into the telecast. I was heartsick and I felt that was truly in bad taste and I wrote them to say so. I had not seen that footage and I wish I hadn't! It really put a damper on my excitement about the race. In the future maybe they should not be the ones broadcasting races and all who were upset like me should let them hear about it.

re: Belmont Brown?

Janesville Liz — Mon, 19 May 2008 01:03:00 GMT

I would hazard a bet the deal included a secret semen test to see if he is virile or not. After the Cigar debacle, I doubt anyone wants $50 million worth of egg on their faces.

re: Belmont Brown?

Teri PA — Mon, 19 May 2008 00:11:19 GMT

Wouldn't be ironic if Big Brown turns out to be sterile. His broodmare sire, Nureyev, had fertility problems, his sire was pensioned due to fertility, and another Danzig grandson, George Washington was almost sterile. What would the people who said that he definitely wouldn't race as a four year old do then?

re: Belmont Brown?

Eric — Sun, 18 May 2008 23:39:51 GMT

BB will stand for $125k. I think TC would get serious pushback from breeders if the number goes much above that, regardless of the belmont outcome. Who in there right mind would pay a $200k fee for an unproven stallion who dominated a very weak crop of 3yr olds?