Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

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The Five-Cross Files — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:12:09 GMT

Brass Hat attempts a comeback. The 8-year-old son of Prized has been compared to the legendary John Henry -- both are grade I winning geldings who put in long careers, after all. But the two share more than that, and we look back to the damsire of two

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The Five-Cross Files — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:15:34 GMT

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re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Longshot — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:19:23 GMT

Hard Spun will be a top sire. Always thought he would have been unbeatable at 1-1/8 mile on turf.

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

sgillies — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:45:13 GMT

I'm going to add a stallion that I think will be a great value for breeders in the northeast (and might well be worth shipping in a mare or two for those of us elsewhere): Request for Parole (on SRO). See additional comments on this Judge T C son in my "Where Did They All Go?" post.

Where Did They All Go?

The Five-Cross Files — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:24:58 GMT

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re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Chris Taylor — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:32:56 GMT

I am thinking Street Sense

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Marc W — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:01:28 GMT

Not 1st year but Candy Ride is interesting-he certainly was a good horse with new blood

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

carlos — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:10:50 GMT

why hasn't anyone mentioned Pomeroy? he has all the attributes of being a great sire when compared to Distorted Humor & Elusive Quality. He won stakes at 7 furlongs at Saratoga; being out of a Seeking the Gold mare where Buckpasser shows up on both sides of the pedigree, it wouldn't be too farfetched to see him doing very well.

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

carlos — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:10:47 GMT

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Dana — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:18:46 GMT

What about Lawyer Ron?

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

KAB — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:26:12 GMT

Value Stallions

CATIENUS-$15,000

PUT IT BACK-$7,500

ONE THAT WILL BREAK OUT THIS YEAR(2008/2009) WITH HIS TWO/THREE YEAR OLDS "MAYAKOVSKY"-$3,000.

I DO AGREE WITH SWEETSOUTHERNSAINT, GREAT PROGENY (FILLY & MARES ON TURF)

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Marc W — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:48:45 GMT

Another Idea for those picking new studs- although not first year ones.

TALK TO CLOCKERS -mostly regional ones that come from states that have breeding bonuses (NY,TX,LA,CA,ON, et.) and they get to see a great number of studs first year 2yr olds before they race.

As a former clocker I saw the first year 2yr olds of Vice Regent and Silver Deputy and although they didn't command high stud fees, and see top mares, when you saw their get train, I knew they were going to be good sires. On the flip side, one big Canadian outfit had shares in Sham, and another would be Mi Selecto who Stronach gave every chance to, they looked and trained very ordinarily and you knew they weren't going to do well in advance to their prodigy’s failures on the track.

Just a idea to ponder for those looking to take an edge and get in on the ground floor before the price goes way up.

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Marc W — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:49:10 GMT

I am guessing a previous post went a little too far with my thoughts and got edited out, probably rightfully so. Here is a less detailed version of the same thoughts. It does bring valid thoughts/questions to light.

I am very happy finally the Unusual Heat finally got a mention as he is improving his mares considerably by Scott at the top of this blog. Does anybody wonder if he was seeing the mares that Giant Causeway is what he would have thrown by now?

I don't have a mare to bred but have many friends that do, but most don't have the big money to invest even in a $25K stud. If I had to advise I would look to a great race record like Invasor with the hope he could pass his talent on. A similar Couger2 (story- not breeding wise) flopped so it is a risk. He is not cheap, but if from classic American lines he would be at $100K plus fee. Seattle Slew had good bloodlines but really his sire although well bred never threw anything like him and didn't do that well. He was a great racehorse and a top sire, but he was only a 17K buy because of his breeding. I am a firm believer that on the whole race records are important more so than just bloodlines, of course there are exceptions (Viceregal/Vice Regent) but on the whole it seems to bare out. Northern Native was Northern Dancer's full brother but certainly didn't have his talent on track or the breeding shed.

On a budget I like Good Reward was a hard trier with a decent race record. Bred in the purple, and has a brother that is doing well if you are looking for a 1st year stallion not in the high $$$$ categories. I also like that he ran for Shug.

This brings up an unanswered questions that are rarely talked about in breeding-the people that had them during their racing careers. (Also why my original post was "rightly" excluded and not put up for mentioning a certain horse) No good answers is there, but it would influence who I would suggest breed to.

I have thought, maybe without good reason, been afraid to suggest breeding to certain horses when they change outfits and suddenly move up dramatically although the previous trainer might be well respected and established. Maybe some just need the right person/ trainer to unlock their potential.

I am from an era when trainers that raced a thousand plus horses (very few had that many horses to get near that figure of runners), mainly claimers didn't win at thirty percent clips. (I worked for Franky Merrill Jr. for a few years who was among the top claiming trainers in NA although he never had near that many horses or that high of winning percentage when topping the rankings) Rule of thumb, I like horses trained by a some that I feel comfortable with that have sent numerous horses to the breeding shed that have done well.

Sorry for my last few comments being thrown in the mix, but I think it is a genuine concern that should be addressed.

Others, not quite first year studs but somewhat unnoticed, I like "Sweetsouthernsaint" around for more than a few years at $3500 who is improving his mares and sends many a hard knocking racehorses. "Repent" who never really got to show how good he was on the track is off to a good start considering his mares seen and still is a bargain price.

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Marc W — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:59:58 GMT

I am very happy finally the Unusual Heat finally got a mention as he is improving his mares considerably by Scott at the top of this blog. Can anybody wonder if he was seeing the mares that Giant Causeway is what he would have thrown by now?

On a budget I like Sweetsouthernsaint @ $3500 who is improving his mares and sends many a hard knocking racehorses. Repent who never really got to show how good he was on the track is off to a good start considering his mares seen. Good Reward was a trier with a decent race record bred in the purple and has a brother that is doing well if you are looking for a 1st year stallion not in the high $$$$ categories. I also like that he ran for Shug. This is an unanswered question that is rarely talked about in breeding-the people that had them during their racing careers. No good answers is there. Did they or did they not help?

I have thought, maybe without good reason been afraid to breed to certain trainers who suddenly move up their horses dramatically, like St Liam. (I truly hope I am wrong for even wondering out loud and he turns into a great stud) He is bred well enough and maybe he just needed the right person/ trainer to unlock his potential, but I like horses trained by a some that I feel comfortable with-Street Sense would fall into that category without knocking or casting aspersions on the the others which wouldn't be fair.

With that said, no aid legal or not, will make an average horse a superstar, which is lost on some. The talent must be there. I was a mediocre college runner, better than average, but if you gave me performance enhancing drugs, milkshake me, best trainers in the world, I was never going to be Olympic class, the talent must be there to reach the highest levels. It will though possibly make some tough losses in photos and close finishes wins.

Sorry for my last few paragraphs being thrown in the mix, but I think it is a genuine concern that should be addressed. The sad part is it is just unproven suspicions I have-only time will tell.

re: Pure Future: 2008 Incoming Sires

Evan N. — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 17:19:25 GMT

Hard Spun could handle any mare and will be the best stallion of his generation. 50,000 will look like a steal come 2011