Stallion-Making Stakes Races

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Pedigree Shelly — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:23:18 GMT

I like stamina in pedigrees .Stallions that have won at a mile and a quarter or more. AP Indy ,Lemon Drop Kid ,(Belmont) Tiznow ( BC Classic ) are good examples !

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

EarlySpeed — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:49:04 GMT

I've noticed that a lot of the top stallions seem to be excellent turf horses and sire horses that can go on the dirt or turf. I say turf because it takes a high-striding horse with good leg follow through to do well on the turf and dirt. Example: Barbaro's stride, except that Barbaro never got a chance to prove himself in the breeding shed, so Dynaformer who has sired a lot of good dirt and turf horses has to get the credit here. I think the Grade 1 middle distance turf races are a good measure of a stallion.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

EarlySpeed — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:42:27 GMT

Epsom Derby has produced good breeding horses. The English Triple Crown has produced internationally top stallions.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Michael D — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 04:46:31 GMT

Obmar, your astute comments apparently come from many years of observation and passion ... thanks, will you email me?

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Jackman — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:29:25 GMT

I agree that the King's Bishop is now the top speed race. I feel the Met Mile has become lost due to many fast horses going to Dubai or not being cranked up that early in the season. The NYRA needs to do something before they lose a franchise race.

Of the distance races, the Breeder's cup and Belmont, as mentioned above have produced some good sires.

Of the current top five, Giant's Causeway, Tiznow, A P Indy and Medaglia D'oro all won at a distance of at least 1 1/4 miles while Distorted Humor won at 7/8. So it seems that one needs to be able to have class at a distance or go 7/8 or a mile.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Somethingroyal — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:41:17 GMT

Justine:

I stated my opinion not a judgement. If you watched Haskin's interview with John Nerud. John mentions The Breeders Cup was never intended to be raced on two seperate days. It's suppose to be a one day event and at a different track each year. His words...

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Obmar — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 09:12:54 GMT

Tesio = English Derby winners as Stallions 1 1/2 miles. Champion sires

The following horses have headed the list of successful sires from the beginning of the century to the present St. Simon twice Persimmon four times ; St. Frusquin twice Gallinule twice; Cyllene twice ; Sundridge; Desmond ; Polymelus five times ; Bayardo twice ; The Tetrarch ; Lemberg Swynford Son-in-Law twice ; Phalaris twice ; Hurry On ; Buchan ; Tetratema Pharos Gainsborough twice ; Blandford three times Fairway four times ; Solario ; Hyperion six times ; Nearco twice ; Bois Roussel ; Fair Trial; Nasrullah ; Tehran; Chanteur II.

Every one of these were good racehorses and several of them were great ones. Gallinule only showed top-class form as a two year old but broke blood-vessels; Desmond did not train on either, but was also a good two year old. Sundridge and Phalaris did not stay, but were top-class sprinters. Blandford was a better horse than his public form shows, because he was unsound. He was probably the best horse of his year. Polymelus was not a classic winner, but was a high-class race horse, which can also be said of Pharos, Son-in-Law, Buchan, Fair Trial, Nasrullah, Chanteur II. St. Simon, Persimmon, Swynford, Bayardo, Gainsborough, Hurry On, Fairway, Hyperion and Nearco were great horses. The Tetrarch did not race as a three year old, but was a phenomenal two year old.

This suggests that ability as a sire is directly related to ability on the racecourse, for not only has each of the sires mentioned shown high-class form as a racehorse, but the most outstanding of them at stud, namely St. Simon (who also headed the sires list seven times consecutively, during the previous century), Persimmon, Fairway and Hyperion, were among the greatest on the racecourse.

First essential

The first essential in breeding a successful

stallion is, therefore, to breed a good race horse ; if possible, a brilliant one.

This is only the first step, because many good, even great, racehorses have failed at stud. Pommern, Gay Crusader (reputed to have been considered by his trainer a better horse than Gainsborough), Common, Captain Cuttle, Coronach, Call Boy and Papyrus, were all pretty good horses who disappointed at stud. But, on the whole, the failures of great racehorses at stud are not high. The problem as regards this aspect of the matter is to arrive at a true assessment of it horse’s racing ability, not merely in relation to his contemporaries, but as compared with previous and later generations.

Not infrequently a horse is hailed as a champion, when later evidence shows him to have been far removed from championship class. That is why, from the aspect of the breed itself, racing horses beyond the age of three is so important it enables an accurate measure to be taken of merit of different generations.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Justine — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:33:02 GMT

@ Somethingroyal

The Breeders' Cup just split into two last year; think it's way too early to judge.

The BC Classic has a few good names on its list, including Wild Again, Unbridled, Sunday Silence, A.P. Indy, Awesome Again, and Tiznow. Alphabet Soup, Skywalker, Black Tie Affair, and a few others made pretty decent sires, too.

I do agree with LanceS on the Belmont, though. In recent years it's been turning out some good stamina-laced stallions.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Hopechaser — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:52:54 GMT

The Belmont is the best preditor of some ability to get a distance of ground. For shorter distances almost any Grde I will do.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Chris — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:46:11 GMT

The Met Mile seems to turn out a high number of winners that go on to future stallion success.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Somethingroyal — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:09:19 GMT

Call me old fashion, but the Triple Crown series still rules for me when it comes to future stallion prospects. IMO the Breeders Cup since being split into two days has lost it's luster.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

LanceS — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:04:15 GMT

Surprisingly, it may be the Belmont. Consider some currently active Belmont winners: A.P. Indy, Lemon Drop Kid, Empire Maker, Birdstone. Plus horses like Thunder Gulch and Point Given have been at least decent sires, too. Interestingly, they often seem to make better sires than the corresponding Kentucky Derby winners.

re: Stallion-Making Stakes Races

Arrowwood — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:07:08 GMT

I would nominate the King's Bishop. From 1995-2005, I think the King's Bishop produced just as many good stallions as the Travers. With the emphasis on quality speed, I think this race will continue to be important.

The Metropolitan Mile used to be the race that produced sires. Between 1953-1970, winners included Tom Fool, Native Dancer, Traffic Judge, Gallant Man, Sword Dancer, Bald Eagle, Olden Times, Buckpasser, In Reality, Arts and Letters, and Nodouble. However, between 1995-2004 only Honour and Glory and Langfuhr have had much influence as sires.