Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

Davisondad — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:02:32 GMT

As I said before, I like your mares pedigree and would love to see a Point Given Colt out of her! However, I have been doing a research study that shows some interesting facts about possible mates for Brush Back.

While my study numbers at this time are complete with only winners of the past 8 Kentucky Derbys, the numbers are of themselves very impressive. Of the 149 horses that have run in the past 8 derbys, only 12 meet the breeding requirements of my study, or 8%(or 12 horses) of the runners. Of those 12 runners, 3 have won the derby and two have finished 2nd! So this 8% of runners have produced 37.5% of the winners and 62.5% finished in the Exacta! So what does this have to do with Brush Back? There are some Stallions in your price range, who when mated to Brush Back, would meet the study requirements...they are

City Zip 15K

Holy Bull 15K

offspring would be 5-10-7-0-0

D=5.29 CD +.91

This type of cross produced Highway Lady,Plucky Broad and others

E Dubai 15K

offspring would be 10-10-12-0-0

D 4.33 CD +.94

This cross produced Benecida, River Cruise, Pyramid Love and others

I know that 30K is about twice what you want to spend, but if you love Relaunch Line Stallions(as I do), who can be hotter right now than Tiznow? Heck, I'd be willing to pick up the Stud fee and we could go 50/50 on the offspring!!!

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

Stars End — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:34:44 GMT

Looking at the In Reality-Prince John cross in Casheriette I am surprised you didn't go for anything in the Boldnesian line like Seattle Slew's sons or Bold Ruckus or Bold Executive (Canada). This is an amazing nick! Tiznow has it, Officer has it, Many of Slew's winners have it, etc. Breeders seen to think Seattle Slew is the key when actually it's Boldnesian's sons.

You are definitly right to take a In Reality line mare and go with Prince John, too. Just take it one step further and find a Boldnesian line sire.

Best of luck. I have a small 15.3hh Son of Seattle Slew which I'm breeding to every size mare. So far body type hasn't made a difference in the foals at all!

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

KAB — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:09:03 GMT

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:

Not having the time previously I had only briefly glanced at your dam's pedigree. On a closer look I can say I do like the fact that the ACK ACK Dam FAST TURN, is from the excellent sire family of SQUAW II & the BROAD BRUSH Dam HAY PATCHER brings inbreeding to that line. The PRINCEQUILLO influence via PRINCE JOHN & CHEROKEE ROSE is another plus. If one were to go back, on more then one line you can trace the blood directly to "POCAHONTAS"(1837) who many consider the start of the Large Heart Gene via her colt STOCKWELL.

As for the sire, I will leave him for another posting except, one good thing for American Breeding, he is free of the "CAT" and "Raise a Native" blood, that in itself is becoming all the more rare.

***NO ONE MINDS BUYING A FOAL FROM AN UNPROVEN SIRE, BUT ONE DOES NOT WANT TO PAY A PREMIUM PRICE. A SIRE SHOULD EARN HIS WAY TO HIS FEE. A FIRST YEAR SIRE STARTING AT A SIX OR HIGH FIVE DIGIT FEE ONLY HURTS EVERYONE IN THE THOROUGHBRED INDUSTRY. DECENT BUT NOT SPECTACULAR SIRES WHO HAD TO HAVE THE FEE LOWERED ARE THEN LOOKED ON AS FAILURES. SIRES WHO ARE OUTRIGHT FAILURES CAUSE RESENTMENT AMONG THOSE WHO ARE NEW TO THE INDUSTRY. THIS BUSINESS NEEDS TO ATTRACT NEW OWNERS WHO STAY IN THE BUSINESS, KNOWING THE RISKS, ENJOYING THE EXCITEMENT, BUT NOT BEING SOAKED FOR THEIR MONEY BY THE UNPROVEN.

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

Anna — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:06:01 GMT

I think it was Suzi Shoemaker who wrote an article about nicks, and how they really aren't all that reliable. That being said, I'd try her with a stallion that hasn't been really mentioned but should get a look-over--Dehere. He is at a good price and when he gets a mare in foal, the foal usually looks fantastic, good boned, and [hopefully] enough constitution to take it to the track!

I am a huge Limehouse fan, so of course without saying he is a marvelous choice :D

I say try Seattle Fitz. His foals look great, and hes a nice outcross.

Scot's reply: Thanks for mentioning Dehere (on SRO). Just look at the sires in his first three generations... they are all blue-blooded runners with great "broodmare sire" potential! And his full brother Defrere (on SRO) stands in the northeast, so there's a lot of opportunity for breeders to access these bloodlines.

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

Julie L. — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:17:19 GMT

Proven or unproven...well they won't become proven until you send a mare to them. I use to raise Appaloosa horses for barrelracing and I decided to send my top barrelracing mare to an unproven Quarterhorse stallion who descended from the Domino Thoroughbred line, I was blessed with a beautiful colt with a blaze face and gorgeous white blanket with deep liver spots on it, he had correct conformation and turned into a great barrelracer. Sometimes you just have to trust your gut instinct with a stallion and hope for the best, I was lucky. I also believe that you can't go wrong with Point Given, he is at a nice price and is throwing solid runners. Wish I knew more on your mare's pedigree as I believe that a mare with a good solid pedigree with a standout broodmare sire is important. Just my opinion.

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

KAB — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:51:40 GMT

GIVE ME A PROVEN SIRE OVER THE NEW "UNTASTED" FLAVORS OF THE YEAR WHO TEND TO BE OVERPRICED BESIDES UNPROVEN.

WHEN THE FOAL IS A COLT I GIVE IMPORTANCE TO THE DAM SIRE LINE, A FILLY I TEND TO GIVE EMPHASIS TO THE DAM LINE.

NO SCIENCE, JUST THE PERSONAL PREFERENCE OF A BUYER, NOT A BREEDER.

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

John — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:19:48 GMT

It's really nice that us breeders like to think and believe that the decisions we make are all the right ones.We are eternal optimists!However..more times than not,we recieve a reality check when reality comes around.It has been said"breed the best to the best and hope for the best." Hoping is what we are all doing!I bred my mare to the same stallion twice;I recieved a colt and a filly. Believe me..these two horses are as different as night and day!The colt turned out huge and is high strung,is a cribber,and can be a bit to handle at times.Whereas the filly turned out much smaller,much darker in color than the colt,is not a cribber,has a wonderful personality with sweetheart tempermant and disposition. Same stallion,same mare,same owner/breeder,raised on the same farm with the same handling. Breeding thoroughbred horses is a lot like boxes of chocolate and life..."you never know what you're going to get!" Good luck with all of your decisions and I hope they all work out they way you would hope,believe,and think they will! John.

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

cheryl — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:14:19 GMT

Me again lol :). One of my main picks for your mare would be Closing Argument. Lots of opportunities as far distances the prospective foal could run over, plus he/she would have sales appeal.

re: Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

Cheryl — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:55:26 GMT

My biggest pet peeve when I hear others talking about stallions, is when they say a particular stallion is too small. I bred both my mares to Mass Media last year. One of them is only 15hh and he is 15.3hh. Mass' sire is Touch Gold who is huge. Mass Media also has great conformation and temperament. The biggest foal is out of the smallest mare and he is exceptional If luck stays with him, he is going to be a strapping fella. I can only hope and dream he will be as good as his uncle Student Council. You have to look at the grandparents before you dismiss a stallion just because he is small. Size never got in Northern Dancer's way. Good luck with your colt!!!

Sales Yearling: Stallion Choices

The Five-Cross Files — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:41:10 GMT

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