Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

DONNA KEEN — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:55:18 GMT

I also have his young son out of a Damascas Mare, Won Ton Win.

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

DONNA KEEN — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:52:46 GMT

I have a son of Indian Ridge standing in Texas named Final Row, is he what you are looking for?

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Alfonso — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:11:15 GMT

Take a look at the Brazilian good sire Siphon:

www.pedigreequery.com/siphon

In germany apart from Monsun, Surumu and so on, there is a very good sire called Kallisto, which was sent to Hungary but has been taken back to Germany as from a very small crop he has delivered several graded horses; www.pedigreequery.com/kallisto

Here in Spain we have Wagon Master (sire of 5 G1 winners): www.pedigreequery.com/wagon+master

Federal Trial is also in spain:

www.pedigreequery.com/federal+trial

OKawango (the spanish one):

www.pedigreequery.com/okawango

And I could number a lot of them.

Regards from spain

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Bird Man — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:07:35 GMT

I've read many views on inbreeding and cross breeding. I believe that breeders should breed for soundness. The only way to breed for soundness is to breed to the horses that displayed soundness. People say don't inbreed to the "big three" sire lines, I say breed to the sound horses from those lines. I havent read about this stallion in anyones blogs. "REDATTORE(Brz). Yes he is Raise A Native/ Northern Dancer, but he started 32 times and won a grade(1) race at 8 years old. If we breed to horses like him we will start to breed soundness back into the thoroughbred race horse.

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

porfidia — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:25:17 GMT

To start such a breeding program you need to find a broodmare who had a good to above average racing career who herself is an outcross.

I know I am a late participant to the discussion but I have just gotten interested in the subject.

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Sandy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:53:58 GMT

I looked through the 2004 Stallion Register and came up with this.

Vice Regent lines. Royal Academy and Linamix (maybe son Sagamix, an unbeaten horse thru the Arc) despite their Northern Dancer influences. Sinndar? still Northern Dancer 4th generation.

Early Flyer, standing in Texas, by Gilded Time. Meadowlake lines.

Mizzen Mast (Cozzene x Kinema (Graustark))

Mongoose (Broad Brush x Salty Gal (Cox's Ridge))

Orientate (Mt. Livermore x Dream Team (Cox's Ridge))

Prime Timber (Sultry Song x Wine Taster (Nodouble))

Prized (Kris S. x My Turbulent Miss (My Dad George)).

I'm not sure how insignificant he is, but Burbank was a pretty solid racer through his 6 year old career. He stands in Oklahoma for only $1000.

Would Kamsin Succeed in America?

The Five-Cross Files — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:08:27 GMT

Blog trackback

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Gayle — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:50:28 GMT

I have always loved Golden Pheasant. He is now in China. wouldnt he have made a great out cross for northern dancer and Mr Prospecter bloodlines? I wish they would bring him back home to the states.

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

pharlap — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:58:31 GMT

I would really like to see an outline of how to create a breeding program like this, how to manage it and what to expect. This would be more for a hobby breeder who is interested in creating a lasting/consistant bloodline...

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Julie L. — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:26:22 GMT

You really got me curious so I took a look at the Top Sires of 2008 and found only 4 that did not have any Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, Seattle Slew or In Reality in the first 5 generations, they were In Excess (Ire.) whose fee is n/a, Mizzen Mast who stands for $20,000, Holy Bull who stands for $15,000 and finally Halo's Image who stands for $7,500. This I found very interesting, we really need to promote those stallions who are free of the crosses mentioned in the first 5 generations. Of course there is Rahy but he is a great grandson of Nasrullah who is the sire of Bold Ruler but I think he is still a good outcross if you can keep away mares with the aforementioned bloodlines and he is an excellent sire and well worth the $80,000 stud fee.

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Julie L. — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:05:29 GMT

I've found 2 stallions for you and both stand in the state of California and both are sons of Siberian Express - In Excess (Ire) and Siberian Summer. How did I do? There is no Northern Dancer/Mr. Prospector or In Reality bloodlines.

Scot's reply: Good selections!

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Gin — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:52:39 GMT

I think what it boils down to, is whether or not anyone wants to take the initiative and pratice preservation. I've done what some on here have done, and searched the Stallion Register, and even went as far as starting from the VERY beginning of the "Original Three" on Pedigree Query(I had a lot of time on my hands at that point....) I've learned one thing, finding an outcross from the commercial isn't impossible! I enjoyed this discussion. Thanks for the topic starter!

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

OPERA HOUSE — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:15:22 GMT

I agree a lot with what has been said above. Obviously, a lot of great runners who were also "well-bred" attracted quality mares who had themselves produced good winners to other stallions. Fore example, take some Europeans Champions like Dancing Brave and Shareef Dancer - both very well-bred horses who stood at Dalham Hall Stud and covered the cream of mares. While having their moments as sires, fewer moments than the industry demanded, they have become good broodmares sires. Arazi, who also started his career at the same farm, has also begun to show his worth as a broodmare sire of late. During his stud career, Secretariat covered some of the best mares around and it is only natural that a horse who was not from the dominant Northern Dancer or Raise A Native lines would become a sire of broodmares - he also had the physique to produce big, strong mares who could carry foals.

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

Dawna Clephas — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:34:52 GMT

There’s a bit of a Catch-22 going on with the selection of sire lines available today. Certain pedigrees become successful, prices go up for these lines, and prices for those that are out of fashion decrease. Therefore, if you’ve bred to an outcross type, you’ll probably geld the boys for convenience since there’s little likelihood of making commercial sires of them if they win.

Some of the stallions that had so-so racing careers don’t get promoted as racing sires, but may fall into the hands of sporthorse breeders. Danzig didn’t wow anyone on the track but he had a hot pedigree so the world found out what a stupendous racing sire he was. How many others, with something besides Mr. P, N.D., or S.S. up close, are out there spawning tough horses with speed nobody will discover? They’re not listed in The Blood Horse. They may not even be promoted to TBs.

I’ve got a 2-yo Damascus grandson that is a stunning mover and has a stayer pedigree, with no 5-gen crosses (a Phalaris and Hyperion in the 6th) and a pedigree similar to Skip Trial’s. Would love to race him, but without the resources to get him into race training I’ll probably start him in dressage. Some day he may make fabulous babies, but the track will never hear of them. There are doubtless hundreds of good possibilities like him out there in the show world, and these may end up being where our outcross needs are eventually met.

re: Is Sire-Line Outcrossing Possible Anymore?

BargainBlueblood — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:29:28 GMT

How about Smart Guy?