I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Boots — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 02:46:35 GMT

Aleine- While I do agree that 20 horses in the Kentucky Derby is insane, my concern is more of safety. 20 young, inexperienced 3YO's in a highly competitive race makes me cringe in fear of a serious injury, given the fact the race is televised, is not what this sport needs.

As for the best horse winning, I would have to disagree. A horse that has even a slightest chance at winning the TC should be able to handle traffic. For example, this year. Luckin' At Lucky seems to me to have issues with traffic given his performance in not only the Kentucky Derby, but the Santa Anita Derby as well. I have seen several horses checked up hard due to heavy traffic and still be able to turn in a fantastic finish and win. As well, I have seen horses that are checked up and never seem to be able to settle back down and run well. That, in my mind, is the difference in a good to great horse and your average one.

Odds are, though, that greed for the entrance fees will continue to produce fields that are too large.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Aleine — Mon, 31 May 2010 03:38:36 GMT

Yes!!!! Excellent point!! Reduce the Kentucky Derby field!!

20 or 21 horses out there is nuts!!

I've never seen so many entrants until lately--last few years. I guess money is the reason. But it totally prohibits the best horse from winning! Too much traffic.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Boots — Fri, 28 May 2010 17:56:23 GMT

First off, excellent blog. Training, breeding as well as the general mentality that the breeding shed is more important than the sport itself is why I believe that we have not seen a TC winner in over 30 years, and with all probability, will not until ideals and attitudes change.

I have been a fan of horse racing since the early 80's, back when we had the last of the 'Old School' trainers and jockeys. By today's standards, Alysheba would be laughed off of the track, by his pre-Derby record as well as his conformation. Granted, he failed as so many others have in his TC bid, but there is no doubt he blossomed AFTER the TC. That, to me, speaks in itself for the older school of training. I am by no means saying he was even close to such horses as Secretariat, but I feel he was much better than most horses we see running today. I do not recall ever hearing of a serious soundness issue, other than the fact that he was a known bleeder. It should make one wonder how many horses of late would have been better, if not great horses, given the proper training as well as not retiring them simply because they had won a few good stakes races and would make the owners more money as a stud.

Second, to all of you that sit here and say this should happen or that when it comes to training horses, go visit a real stable, go watch riders work their horses for almost any event, let it be eventing, jumping or rodeo speed events, or at the very least, pick up a GOOD book on training and conditioning horses. There is no way possible, that you can condition any athlete by training lightly once or twice a week, let alone maintain optimal fitness on a high-strung, growing thoroughbred.

From my own experience with my TB-cross, to keep any kind of fitness, she had to be worked three to four times a week, for an hour or better, depending on how intense I worked her. And folks, this was in no manner competition form, this was just to keep her in a good healthy shape. I'll admit that I have not had the opportunity to work with racehorse trainers, but I'm no stranger to speed events. Try watching barrel racers train, and for those of you that go, 'Yeah, quarter horses, that's different.' Try again, there are a ton of OTTB's on the barrel racing circuit. Training for them consists of three to four, sometimes five days a week of moderate to heavy work. Not just the few seconds they would be in the arena competing, but an hour or better at a time. It would be comparable to training the sprinting TB with a two or three mile work, if not even more. There is one other fact that needs considering here. For the most part, horses are intelligent as well as social animals. Keeping them stall-bound for 23 hours a day and them expecting them to be mentally sharp is absurd. I've seen way too many competition-level horses from several different sports, ruined because they became either brain-dead or hard to handle to the point of being vicious and dangerous. Exercise helps keep them mentally stable and workable. The absolute best bloodlines in the world will do nothing for you if the horse is unwilling to work with you and for you. Period.

Bottom line is we are expecting an Olympic result from Little League training. Changing the format of the TC does nothing but weaken the sport. To win is truly a feat of strength, stamina and fortitude. Let us not forget the heart of all involved, starting with owners, trainers, and mostly, the true star of the sport.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

CRob87 — Sat, 22 May 2010 19:22:02 GMT

eze:

I doubt that a structure change in the Triple Crown would really ever happen as well.

I just find it Hypocritical that the so-called leaders of this Industry like to claim that the Horses themselves come first.

But, when we talk about a Change in the structure of the Triple Crown that would actually "Benefit" the Horses themselves, then all of a sudden they back off from promoting that for fear of a backlash. Which just proves to me that "NO" they don't come first !!!

Now all of a sudden it's a Horse of a different color.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

nmhiplains — Sat, 22 May 2010 19:21:51 GMT

Bill

You did not touch on the subject that just training for sprints and the few laps these horses put on per week does nothing to expand the number or size of capillary veins in the lungs of racehorses.

Thus to prevent Bleeding all racehorses are given LASSIX most before their first start.

I'm no worried about breeding for structure soundness but the use of LASSIX may mask the BLEEDER gene being pasted down and affecting a whole SIRE line. OR has that already happen!!!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Rechelle — Sat, 22 May 2010 18:56:17 GMT

Jimbo wrote: "Possibly the most stupid thing ever written by yet another person who never trained a horse let alone a good one. Totally clueless!!"

Let me guess, Jimbo, you've trained exactly one horse in your life and think you are an "expert". Some of the problems DO lie with the trainers. Most of the problems lie in the approved breeding program set forth by the thoroughbred industry. The article was written by someone who has MUCH more of a clue about Thoroughbreds & horse racing than it appears you do.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

nmhiplains — Sat, 22 May 2010 18:47:05 GMT

Bill

I think most missed your point

Breeding determines heart score and the desire to run but STAMINA is a result of conditioning for lactic acid tolerance.(# of fast twitch muscle cells). I don't believe anyone will argue that Eskendereya and Curlin aren't as structure correct as Secretariat.

A lot of older racehorses had terrible conformation (SEABISCUIT!!,STYMIE)

Both ESK and Curlin are no more inbreed than STYMIE was to Man o' War, however Stymie 131 starts 35(25)--33(19)--28(19) $918,485 is probably a result of his conditioning as a two and three yearold 57 starts and the fact that Hirsh Jacobs was his trainer.

Stamina is determined not only by heart score but also the number of fast twitch muscles in the body.

By the way fast twitch muscle cells are smaller in diameter that slow twitch. Quarter Horses have more slow twitch muscle cells than Thoroughbreds thus their bulker appearance---but you can increase the number of fast twitch cells(FTC)by training at route distances. Those old racehorses looked rugger because they carried more FT cells not because of genetics, but as a result of CONDITIONING for ROUTES not sprints!!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Rechelle — Sat, 22 May 2010 00:56:10 GMT

Sami wrote: "I agree with this article. because if anyone read the book Man o war or if anyone know anything about Man o war, when he was two he raced like 5 times in a month or somthing like that and continued"

Sami, that was a totally different time & different breeding style. Horses then were bred for stamina and could run that often. Since the time of Mr. Prospector & Northern Dancer, it is all about inbreeding, which is why it is so rare to see a horse that doesn't have at least one of those two in the pedigree at least once. This is the industry's fault and they have no one to blame but themselves. Until the breeding is changed, we'll never see another Triple Crown winner and we will continue to see horses breaking down on the track. The industry needs to realize that inbreeding is NOT a good thing. They are the only industry that I know of who constantly have inbreeding, especially to this degree. Cattle breeders do not inbreed and take great care to make sure there is no cross breeding going on (I've been actively involved with both industries).

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Beth — Fri, 21 May 2010 17:09:51 GMT

Hey "Jimbo"-are you a trainer?

Because if you are not a trainer, don't go around putting other peoples' opinions down.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Gavin — Fri, 21 May 2010 15:06:03 GMT

raceon, good comments on turning horses to the breeding shed too soon. Mark another one for Jess Jackson and Jerry Moss even though they can't get their mares to compete head to head. At least they like to watch them run and appreciate that we do too.

I am looking forward to seeing MTB run for Lucas. Not sure if he'll tweak him and keep him in the G1s or drop him a notch to get the horse some well deserved confidence. He's a gamer!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Aleine — Fri, 21 May 2010 13:15:24 GMT

mz and Gary at Rough Creek:

Still like my cloning idea of race horses. Gary states the genes are still there today through the progeny of great thoroughbreds....the great Secretariat had better luck with his daughters' careers than his sons. If you exhume the great ones, especially Citation (what a workhorse), you already know the capabilities of that horse.

Combining DNA (genes) with planned mating is still a crap shoot. I have a blood disorder that resulted from a "gene mutation" as the hematologist says. An error in how the gene for that particular clotting factor was read when the cells divided early in my conception and generation. So even the best of egg and sperm donors, those with longevity in the case of humans, can have progeny with gene mutations. And THAT mutation can either occur as a result of a one off incident of gene replication or inheritance. Humans are mammals just as horses are mammals so no big genetic leap there (though we're closely resembling the oranagutan with the orang having 98% of our gene make-up. Gosh...wouldn't it just be easier to breed by going with what we already know? It's not as if you're asking Ruffian to rise again from the grave and run another race after her 35 year stint in the grave. We're just asking her to lend us her DNA for replication. No big deal. Would love to see her again. How many of us wear lab created gemstones in our jewelry? Same science.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Fran Loszynski — Fri, 21 May 2010 11:49:14 GMT

I'm glad everyone is bringing up the trainings of Afleet Alex. Because I believe one day his son or daughter is going to win the Triple Crown. I hope Tim Ritchey is the trainer once again and Jeremy Rose rides the horse. When a horse is that strong in bone and body and heart it rubs off on the foals, maybe less but it is there. I know Cash Is King Stable cares so much for its horses-The Triple Crown Trophy will look good on their mantle!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

nmhiplains — Fri, 21 May 2010 05:07:19 GMT

Tvnewsbadge!!

Don't blame Jesse Jackson or Rachael Alexander for Mine That Birds failing to get the Triple Crown ---- A DEEP CLOSER is always a poor BET---EVERYTHING has to go his way for him to cross the finishline a nose in front of a pace stalker. The front runner has to run 22 and 46,the closer has to have the idea trip, and the jockey has to time his move at the exact pole --to quick he runs out of horse (most of these horses have a half mile at 12sec Furlong or less traveling at 11.5 sec a Furlong 3/8) IF THE JOCKEY WAITS TO LONG he gets ITM but does't win he's got to time his move within 3 lengths GIVE ME A BREAK you think Borel is good enough to time that move three times in a row, traveling 40 mph and get a clean trip everytime!!!

Besides Chip only works his horses once every seven days. (SPRINT WORK)

Mine That Bird has a large heart score but he got ITM because of the TWO lap faster than usually gallops Chip gave him and that heart score. WITH two works a week I would agree with you HOWEVER Chip thinks MTB won (ITM) because he moved him to a deep closer LOL!!!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

raceon — Fri, 21 May 2010 04:57:18 GMT

Wow, finally someone with the courage to stand up and actually write about this. I cannot and will not lay the blame on the trainers alone though. How many horses are injured and sent to the breeding shed? Hello??? How many owners want a fast turn around on their "investment"? If we want a triple crown winner then there needs to be better breeding practices in place, the ability of owners/trainers to build their horses bone density, stamina, muscle and heart to a level that will make them competitive for more than a year or two. Maybe it is time to go back to some of the old training methods. I know that the breed has changed over the years, but has it been for the good? I don't think so. Stop breeding for speed alone and if that is what you want go get a quarter horse. I love the thoroughbred but am sad to see what is becoming of this magnificent animal. People in the industry need to think really hard about their breeding practices and start there. Then consider the way the horses are kept and trained, taking care of that issue. Ban the drugs. Inform and encourage the public to get more involved with racing on the level they are comfortable with. We owe it to the horse.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

nmhiplains — Fri, 21 May 2010 04:12:11 GMT

Ange

Good luck in getting your trainers license--MY trainer told me the same thing than returned by horse with a bowed tendon. Just make sure you don't push to hard or instead of a work every fifth day you'll get one crippling bullet work.

The Powers that be in New Mexico

(Racing Commission) decided last

year that a owner/trainer must work for one year under a licensed trainer as a GROOM before they can

apply for a license. Don't make to many waves in this business the GOOD OLD BOYS don't want anybody question how things are done on the backside!!!!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

nmhiplains — Fri, 21 May 2010 03:54:53 GMT

Everyone who thinks breeding for speed is the problem needs to take a look at how gradual Preston Burch brought his TWO YEAR Olds along over a six month period. WORKS two to three days apart starting with two furlong in 28.1/5 to three furlongs in 42 no bullet furlongs in 10/11 or 1/4s in 22 but everything around the 12.5/13sec furlong and a work every 2 to 3 days unless the colt was sick with a cough or the track was two muddy but it took four months before he started working 4 furlongs around

52 seconds. Building on each previous work and strength bone not seeing if he could get the bullet work of the week. After he had strength bone as two year olds than he started adding a route work after two sprint works as three year olds ---Building stamina with the route works but these horses were out on the track not standing in the stall.

Robert Collins send more than one exercise rider down the rode because they let there mount get away and worked a 1/4 faster than 23 or a half faster than 47. They trained for a 12.5 second furlong and than stretched them out another furlong ----They were building lactic acid tolerance before if was even thought of.----But try to explain to a trainer what building lactic acid tolerance is and adding the ability to add another furlong to his horses RUN!!! AS far as most of them are concerned a horse either has 3/8 or 1/2 or at the max 5/8 of Run in him and they let the horse decide where he's going to make that run. AND lol get this after three races HANDICAPPERS and TRAINERS decide if the horse is a front runner, a pace setter,a stalker or a deep closer.

Secretariat could have come from tenth lengths back of Icebox and still have won the Derby. The good ones came come from anywhere.

Just wondering if the movie about Secretariat will reveal any of his trainers secrets---But you can bet he wasn't camped in his stall or on a hot walker 23.5 hours a day.

I understand it took 3 or 4 stand ins to handle the amount of riding for Seabiscuit's role

By the way Turcotte Secretariats jockey must have had a 12sec timer in his head or do you think he KNEW(because they had trained it) Big Red could string together EIGHT 25sec 1/4s

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Robin from Maryland — Fri, 21 May 2010 02:04:46 GMT

I aggree with everyone. Let's get back to breeding soundness back in. Remember the old verse: Breed the best to the best and hope for the best. I think it was Col. Bradley who would not even think about using any badly conformed individual in his breeding program. We don't need "Pretty" horses, instead we need more rugged ones. It's all about the money nothing else.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Dreamer's Mom — Fri, 21 May 2010 00:58:45 GMT

Part of the problem is that these high-dollar horses are barn babies their entire lives. Most people would be shocked to see our babies at the moment-rain-soaked and covered in mud, but running around in the pen having a grand old time. They are tough as nails, their entire lives. They are born in the elements and they live in the elements every day of their lives.

Our two year olds have tons of miles on them. Not hard miles, but miles. Yes, they breeze and they work, but they might not run as a 2. We let them tell us.

As they age the still get miles. Sometimes with a rider, sometimes without, but the point is they are moving. They don't sit in a stall 23 hours a day. We don't beat them up, but they are conditioned and we rarely have injuries.

Could we do the Triple Crown? Hard to know, but they would be fit and ready and a mile and a half would be an easy day at the track.

I don't think we will ever see another Triple Crown winner. There is too much money on the line for owners and trainers. Too much spent at sales, too much spent on day money for the trainer and too much money to be made in the breeding shed. I would rather breed to a hard knocking stallion that ran through his 6 yr old year, than a one race wonder. Which colt will last longer? That is an easy one....

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

tvnewsbadge — Fri, 21 May 2010 00:31:51 GMT

Pixypix said,

"No offense to most of the people on this site but, the real problem are animal rights activists. Trainers can't use the afforementioned training regimen because it is "cruel to the horses"."

With all due respect, that's a lot of bull.

The only time animal activists get involved is when a high profile horse dies in living color on TV or someone does another expose on the cruelties of the horse slaughter business, and even then their outrage is short lived and they're soon on to other causes.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Deborah — Fri, 21 May 2010 00:01:21 GMT

Breed for stamina, take them off the medications, reduce the derby field to 15, and for goodness sakes train the way Afleet Alex trained; hard and consistent! Just take a look at photos of Man O War, Seabiscuit, Citation, Assault, etc. They were rugged horses, not the smooth,slick ones we see today!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

eze — Thu, 20 May 2010 21:58:41 GMT

@pixypiv: Thst really makes no sense to me. A) my impression is that activist (I am speaking the more extreme groups) would want to ban racing period B)activist would probably define current methods as cruel verses older methods if it has resulted in more injury and breakdowns.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Zowie — Thu, 20 May 2010 21:55:47 GMT

ITS ABOUT TIME!!! Thank you so very much to Mr. Pressey for writing this blog to get the ball rolling and to all of you who posted responses. I too share many of the opinions presented here so I won't echo them except to remind people that TRAIN is in fact a verb which means an action word. It's really a shame that Thoroughbred Racing is no longer considered a sport and the horses aren't considered as athletes. Why? Simply because all human athletes train why aren't horses allowed the same privilege? The answer of course is $$$$'s. Having had the privilege of watching the last three triple winners I do hope that something can be done to reverse the current way of doing things without cheapening or as one person wrote "dumbing down" the triple crown.Please everyone keep the dialogue going There definitely needs to be a change and it needs to be now before many, many other excellent horses are hurt or killed.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Ange — Thu, 20 May 2010 21:37:20 GMT

I argue with my trainer about this all the time, he just tells me "I'm training the horse." Must be why he only won 2 races last year. We have a horse who absolutely thrives on training and could easily be working every 5 days but this guy won't do it. I'm going to get my trainer's license and do it MY way, which will be similar to what is listed above. More works more often. The horse will tell me if it's too much!

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

General Assembly — Thu, 20 May 2010 21:29:03 GMT

I don't believe breeding has as much to do with the lack of triple crown winners as do conditioning and medication. If you examine not only the training regimines, but the race records of the previous triple crown winners you will notice a major difference to most of the modern contenders. This difference is a gradual progression in race distances that they have been asked to run. Starting two-year-olds in a series of sprint races was not as physically demanding as running a colt a mile or more in August of his two-year-old season (which Big Brown did). Galloping longer distances and sprint races helped to toughen them up. If you look up the records of the triple crown winners, six of the eleven were champion juveniles. Plus, Gallant Fox and War Admiral were highly regarded. Assault made a bit of an impact at two. The only two who were unhearalded going into their sophomore years were Sir Barton and Omaha. Also, going into their triple crown seasons, most of these colts started their year off in some sort of sprint. Now it seems as if there is a contest between trainers as to who can race their horses the least to make the Derby. Most of the horses who make it to the big day are simply unprepared to run in the Derby, much less win it.

re: I Blame Trainers for Lack of Triple Crown Winners

Catherine — Thu, 20 May 2010 21:22:41 GMT

FINALLY! Someone who knows what the heck is wrong with racehorses! They're not bred right and they're not trained right. Thank you SO MUCH for this article!