The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

markinsac — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:01:32 GMT

Why must Zenyatta race in New York? To please the NY fans? I got news for you people, YOU ARE NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN ZENYATTA. If you want to see her run, come to Calif, why does she have to come to you? There's this big race in November called the Breeders Cup Classic and she is preparing for it. A trip east right now would take too much out of her. Her connections are trying to make her peak in November, not August. Why do you care so much about yourselves and not the horse?

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Blood-Horse Staff — Tue, 25 May 2010 18:51:45 GMT

Unfortunately, the comments have once again gotten out of hand and several of you have been unable to play nice. Due to this, we will no longer be publishing new comments for this particular blog post.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

ZenyattaFan — Tue, 25 May 2010 18:46:15 GMT

To whoever says Zenyatta's not a popular horse, have you ever been to the track when she runs? She gets more applause, more signs held up, more pictures taken of her, and generates more overall excitement than any other horse I've ever seen run.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Matthew W — Tue, 25 May 2010 17:33:35 GMT

So there are legions of New York horses that were "household names, coast to coast"?? And yet Zenyatta is merely an afterthought back there? That is simply untrue on it's face! I heard veteran horsemen back in Oaklawn were scampering to see her get a bath! They were asking to have their pictures taken alongside the unbeatable mare! I'll admit I was in awe of Curlin when he came out here, but Zenyatta is on another level altogether! Guys like Ken McPeek and D Wayne Lukas are like kids in a candy store when Zenyatta arrives--that is the truth about Zenyatta, and what she carries with her! I'll say it again: if she stays unbeaten going into the Classic, where she will face off with Quality Road and Rail Trip for more than just a race--an unbeaten career--it will be the most anticipated race in decades, one of the biggest races ever...

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Frank L. — Tue, 25 May 2010 14:00:31 GMT

Quote from Elusive Quality,

"Okie dokie then..so we can say Zenyatta is a slow horse that ran almost exclusively in California against extremely overmatched horses in very average times on pro ride and poly tracks..."

Elusive Quality,

I want to see Quality Road come out to Del Mar and try to break Zenyatta's track record.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

ElusiveQuality — Tue, 25 May 2010 11:59:29 GMT

"She was a fast horse that ran exclusively in New York against extremely overmatched horses in very fast times on very hard racing surfaces."

Okie dokie then..so we can say Zenyatta is a slow horse that ran almost exclusively in California against extremely overmatched horses in very average times on pro ride and poly tracks...

sounds like a very fair comparison to me....;)

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

ElusiveQuality — Tue, 25 May 2010 11:54:46 GMT

For Horse racing fan- great post! That's what I have been trying to say....Zenyatta is NOT a household name.....no matter how many races she wins....I post on another TB forum and a member there made this statement "It's the IT factor.....that thing that certain stars have that causes the public to talk about them, good or bad, and wonder what they are doing next and mention their name and everyone knows who 'they' are....Rachel has IT, Curlin had IT, Secretariat, Cigar, Ruffian sooo many others were household names coast to coast......Zen does not...and never will...." it's kinda sad actually, that this beautiful 16-0 horse is the most "unknown" undefeated horse ever....well next to Pepper's Pride....lol...at least outside of California...and even if she wins 25 in a row before she retires, she will never be revered 10 yrs from now like others in the past...it's just how IT is....so game changer?? not even close....but she has garnered a bunch of new fans since the 09 BC classic....but in all honesty how many of these new fans can TRULY say they knew who Zenyatta was BEFORE that race?? (and before the media trumped up 5mil AB 'match race' that RA's connections were NEVER pointed to?) Had Zen won the '09 Ladies instead...these 'new' fans would be saying Zenyatta WHO? (the new fans remind me of the 'fans' who embrace the winner of the world series or super bowl as THEIR team...after the fact.....jmho.....I like and respect Zenyatta and 16-0 is amazing for a one run closer, but she could retire tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me...as for RA, so could she, maybe she should as she has yet to regain her 3 yr old form - but, were they both to retire today -the IT girl, RA, would be talked about for a long time after Zenyatta was forgotten...it's just how IT works.....

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

LDP — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:37:27 GMT

Mike,

Ruffian set or equalled stakes/track records in all ten of her races while being handridden in most. Now I can't recall correctly, but wasn't Ruffian found with some sort of injury after the Sorority? If so, then it's a testimate to how great she was, to win while running injured.

You also forget she was drawing away from a Kentucky Derby winner in Foolish Pleasure before she broke down.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

LAZMANNICK — Tue, 25 May 2010 04:19:04 GMT

Mike:

Your opinion that Ruffian was over-rated can be argued until the cows come home. All I can say is that when knowledgeable horse-people put together a list of the top 100 race horses, she was the highest rated filly or mare and was rated ahead of many HOY’s and Triple Crown race winners and 2 Triple Crown winners.

Yeah, I forgot, Ruffian’s connections were scared skinny of Hot ‘n Tasty, the fantastic filly that had 9 lifetime wins from 26 lifetime starts and never won a G-1. And they must have been waiting a long time for Ruffian to go looking for them seeing that when they did meet it was July 27th of their 2 year-old year and Ruffian never ran her first race until May 22 and her 3rd until July 10th.

As for taking her on in her own back yard, whose backyard are you talking about? Ruffian travelled to NJ for this race and as far as I know the Sorority was Hot ‘n Tasty’s only stakes race in NJ. Maybe they both travelled to get at each other. Tasty's connections didn't seem to want any part of Ruffian after that.

Regarding your comment……judge Ruffian on what she gave us, not on what she might have done…..I think it is only logical to assume that she was capable of much more, in fact, she was 2-5 in the match race against the Derby winner, which indicates a lot of other people felt the same way.

Her record speaks for itself. Every stakes win was a record and they were won with consummate ease. It is quite conceivable that she would have continued to be dominant simply because she led at every pole in every race. In only three races did she lose ground from the 1st call to the 2nd call. In every race she gained from the 2nd call to the 3rd call, and only in the CCA did she lose ground on the last call (3-L to 2-3/4-L) and this in a 1-1/2-M race in which she ran the distance, not really pushed, a full second faster than Damascus did in his Belmont on the same track.

Regarding Landaluce…..I agree that she never gained the respect that was due her, perhaps because she only raced 5 times. Who knows what might have been. But if you want to start bringing other fillies into the picture, then why not mention Melair who also went 5 for 5, also ran fast, and who dominated the colts in the G-2 Silver Screen, a race that included Snow Chief and Southern Halo among others. But like Ruffian stuck to New York, Landaluce stuck to California and Melair raced exclusively at Hollywood Park and I don’t see where either one of them was included in the top 100.

As for Lucien Lauren, he got the job of training Secretariat and Riva Ridge when he came out of retirement (not as a handout, but at his son’s suggestion when he didn’t want the job himself). He won 40 major stakes from the late fifties to the late seventies, many of which would be considered G-1 and G-2 today and was inducted into Racing Hall of Fame. Roger wasn’t quite the trainer he was…..SORRY.

Regarding Lucien’s comparison of Ruffian to Secretariat I take it as face value by a very knowledgeable horseman. Considering Secretariat’s loses……the first was his maiden race when he was interfered with; the second was the DQ; the 3rd was the Wood Memorial (abscessed tooth); and I believe in the Woodward he was coming off a fever and it was his second tough race in two weeks (not to be used as excuses but perhaps to add some logic).

Regarding Zenyatta……all I can say is that I am probably her staunchest supporter. Go back over these blogs over the past year if you don’t believe me. I think she’s fantastic. However, I also think that Ruffian is fantastic too……nothing more……nothing less. LOL

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Mr. Jones — Tue, 25 May 2010 02:51:08 GMT

Mr. TVnewsbadge,

I think what gets up people's noses is the foul stench of plain b.s. from all of the Zenyatta detractors and their dribble about the level of competition that Zenyatta has faced.

After what seeing what Vinnie and John wrote we're just tired of smelling this bad odor.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Zane — Tue, 25 May 2010 02:32:03 GMT

horse racing fan-

"low quality races in Southern Cal..."

Please read the blogs by Johnny and Vinnie, then come back and tell us what you really think.

Forget that thought, it might be too dangerous.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Mike — Tue, 25 May 2010 01:22:52 GMT

Wellarmed - sorry to break it to you. But Zenyatta is a completely superior horse to Ruffian.

Please, folks, judge Ruffian on what she gave us - not what you think she might have done.

Look what happened to Rachel Alexandra this year after she looked like Ruffian last year in the Mother Goose and the Oaks.

Ruffian was perhaps the most overrated racehorse of all time.

This was not her doing - we can thank the East Coast biased media for that.

I don't remember hearing the same accolades going to Landuluce, that died tragically after dominating her opponents much like Ruffian, only because she was a California filly.

Lazmannick - can we move away from the silliest quote around - that from Lucien Lauren, whom trained the great Secretariat.

Please, how in the world did this magnificent physical speciman ever lose a race, let alone four (not counting the DQ) especially to such sub par racehorses (Onion, Prove Out) and his stablemate in the Wood? Secretariat's heart was over three times the size of a normal thoroughgred's heart.

The answer, Lucien Lauren was not a top notch trainer. The reason his got his gig was through his son, Roger.

If you think Steve Asmussen has been hammered for his handling of Rachel Alexandra, can you imagine the pounding Mr. Lauren what have received if Secretariat and Lauren were around today.

Allen Jerkens completely out-trained him twice.

And to quote this guy. Not.

Ruffian's Sorority that you mention - was driving.

The story was that Hot N Tasty, a California speedball, got tired of waiting for Ruffian to leave New York. She decided to take her on in her own backyard (NJ). For most of the race she battled Ruffian, coming up to a head of her only to lose by two lengths.

Again, this is no knock on Ruffian. She gave us what she gave us. It's a knock on the people that seem to overrate her accomplishments.

She was a fast horse that ran exclusively in New York against extremely overmatched horses in very fast times on very hard racing surfaces.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

tvnewsbadge — Tue, 25 May 2010 01:18:10 GMT

m burry said

"I'm so sick of these people who can't enjoy this great horse instead of moaning about her running all over the country and running only against males ... she's been thar, done dat ... the biggest male race the Breeders Cup Classic"

Actually, the BC Classic isn't the "biggest male race", but that's neither here nor there.

I think what gets up some folks nose is the lack of perspective and the habit many Zenyatta fans have of trashing other equine champions in order to promote their favorite.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Horse racing fan — Mon, 24 May 2010 19:50:02 GMT

I congratulate the writer of the Article, but unfortunately a horse that is unknown to the general public is nothing close to a game changer. How many people showed up to attend the Second day of the Breeders Cup. 55,000. If walking down the street, and mentioning her name people will ask Zen-What, they know who Rachel Alexandra is, and even Mine that Bird, Zenyatta unfortunately not so much. Probably because her connections have spent the majority of their time running in very low quality races in Southern Cal. I find it amazing that the editors would even allow such an article to be published on their website, but more power to you and them for allowing such things.

I wonder if this is another ploy by the Moss’s to garner HOY votes or maybe they will retired her mid season or right before the B.C. to pull on the heart strings of the voters. “We Shall See, Stay Tuned”

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

sodapopkid — Mon, 24 May 2010 18:46:38 GMT

Truth is to be told, Zenyatta is the BEST thoroughbred running today. No other horse is 16-0 and still racing, Yes, we have had some of the other greats in history that have ran more(PP) or the same amount of races and won(Cigar, Citation), but not in todays world, there is no other race horse that is running today that hasn't been defeated and can say they are 16-0 , but Zenyatta...........Whether you like her or not, you still have to respect her greatness, and her accomplishments..........It's not Zenyatta's fault that the others havent' been able to succeed the way she has........I am so happy the Mosses gave her body the time to mature before racing her.........It made a world of difference.....

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

CV — Mon, 24 May 2010 16:34:24 GMT

Comments about "fake surfaces" by ElusiveQuality and others like him betray what their real beef with Zenyatta is about...their intense hatred of synthetic racing surfaces and California racing in general. They hate synthetic tracks...and the horses who run on them...even though synthetic tracks can consist of up to 70% sand.

They hate them even though dirt tracks weren't put there by God and are carefully blended surfaces themselves.

Zenyatta can't do anything to overcome this hatred. She is just drawn into it because her home base is California.

As to the oft-repeated "Peppers Pride" comparison, Peppers Pride ran ONLY in New Mexico races RESTRICTED TO NEW MEXICO BRED HORSES. She never ran over a mile, either.

The anti-Zenyatta crowd likes to gloss over and ignore those facts.

Finally, the great Ruffian ran all but one race in New York. Yes, that's right. She ran almost exclusively in New York, yet you'll never hear ElusiveQuality and his friends question Ruffian's greatness because she wasn't shipped around the country. That fact exposes anti-California, anti-synthetic track bias for what it is.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

gw_bushwacker — Mon, 24 May 2010 16:05:46 GMT

Elusive Quality,

I've been saying for years that races need to be evaluated AFTER the season ends before receiving any Graded status. Example, If you have a lineup of maidens or NW2 eligible horses running in the Belmont like we did 2 years ago that race should never be considered a G1 that year. The horse with the best resume ended up getting whipped by a bunch of nobody's who did not go on to do anything great the rest of the year. Example #2, RA's biggest win in the eyes of most came against "older males.' Looking at that race and the runners who she beat is a joke. Since then none of them has won a graded race!! It's been 9 months and none of them have done a thing INCLUDING RA but lose since!! That race should lose it's graded status for the year based on those facts alone. 2 or 3 yr old races of Graded status need to be seperated and qualified by noting they were for 2 or 3 yr olds only. Nine times out of ten especially early in the 3 yr old year most of these races do not have true graded quality on the same scale as for older. A G1 race at 2 should be recorded as G1(2), at 3 it should be recorded as G1(3) when only 3 yr olds run. There is a huge difference in the quality in those races from the quality in older company. I agree that Graded status is tossed about way to frequently no matter who runs in a particular year.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Stacy — Mon, 24 May 2010 16:04:00 GMT

I have to agree that Zenyatta is a GOOD horse. But, I just can't call her GREAT ... at least not at the moment. After deciding not to retire Zenyatta, John Sheriffs and the Mosses promised us that this year she would run a different campaign compared to the last two years. I am still waiting. Zenyatta only runs 5 or 6 races a year and so far this year, she has ran in the exact same races as the previous years. When asked about shipping Zenyatta east to either KY or NY, John Sheriffs said that shipping her is a huge handicap. Does that mean that come November they will not ship her to Churchill?

Deacon, I agree with you about Lady's Secret. She ran everywhere and was very deserving of Horse of the Year. It is a shame that Santa Anita renamed the Lady's Secret B.C. Handicap. Most tracks would have made another race in honor of a horse that is deserving. I thought that Santa Anita's actions were disrespectful, especially since Lady's Secret was Horse of the Year in 1986.

I would like to see john Sheriffs and the Mosses make good on their promises. I don't care if she stays in California. There are several other Grade 1 races in CA ... run her against the boys.

Why does John Sheriffs have no problem shipping Zardana but, will not ship Zenyatta? If she is so GREAT then a little airplane flight is not going to affect her.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

slyder — Mon, 24 May 2010 15:48:42 GMT

Anyone who questions the competition Zenyatta is facing needs to get a reality check. First of all unless I dreamed something she travelled to Oaklawn, threw down the challenge, and who showed up? They were all scared to face her and she was only 80% at best!!

Why not question why the East Coast Horses don't go face her wherever she runs? Oh yeah, the best in the world did and FAILED last November!! This is the only Mare to ever have won a Br. Cup Classic. It's a juvenile argument to question her competition when it's their fault for not showing up to face her but when they do she whips them anyway.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

LAZMANNICK — Mon, 24 May 2010 15:46:59 GMT

Zenyatta

She is simply the best of her age and definitely one of the best all time. She still has something to prove, but only because she hasn’t been put into certain situations. This bit about synthetic only champion is pure bull. She was never purchased because she was a synthetic horse. That just happens to be the surface that she races on. People forget that when she took on the reigning filly champ, Ginger Punch, in the Apple Blossom (her first race on dirt), it wasn’t an experiment to see how she could handle the surface. They knew she could handle dirt. And when she lagged behind and it looked like GP was going to destroy the field, what we saw in turn was a devastating stretch run that at times defies the imagination. She absolutely destroyed possibly the top filly mare field (outside that year’s BC Filly race) that year and in only her fourth lifetime start. For anyone who doubts her quality, you must have been feeling pretty confident at the quarter pole in the BCC when she looked like the only horse she would beat would be MTB. How did the doubters feel during the final quarter of the race when she not only destroyed the top field in N/A last year, she actually waited in mid-stretch for the third place finisher to pass her then took off and won without really much of a drive……The list of G-1 winning and Classic winning horses she has defeated is deeper than any horse currently racing in N/A. People also forget that during her career (so far) she has defeated the winners of 5 divisional categories. She is definitely one of my all time favorites. I only hope that she will continue on this year and make it to the BCC and face the top males.

Ruffian

How anyone can knock which is possibly the greatest female horse ever is beyond me. Ruffian, like Zenyatta and maybe even like Rachel (for a brief period last year), transcended greatness. It is difficult to compare what she did back then to what horses do today, but I do know that in a time when N/A horse racing was peaking (three Triple Crown winners in six years), Ruffian was revered. It took until the match race before she tackled a male, but people don’t realize that she only raced until June of her three year-old year. I’m sure that races like the Travers would have definitely been on her agenda if fate hadn’t intervened. Even Lucien Lauren who trained Secretariat, said that she might have actually been better than him. Ruffian, like many great horses, could only race against the competition that was available. She did that and what she did was absolutely destroy her competition.

Some of her facts leading up to her ill-fated match race:

• Was 10 for 10 in a 14-month period

• Won at the following distances…..5 ½-F, 6-F, 7-F, 1-M, 1-1/8M, 1-1/4M & 1-1/2M

• Was never headed at any call in any race

• At the 3rd last call led by an average of 2 1/2-L

• At the 2nd last call led by an average of 5 1/2-L

• At the finish, led by an average of 8 1/2-L

• From 1963 to 1967 the Belmont Stakes was run at Aqueduct. Ruffian’s CCA also at Aqueduct in 1975 at 1 1/2M was run faster than every one of them including Damascus’ 1968 win.

• In only one race, the Sorority did the finish caption say….driving. the other captions indicated that her wins were without anything close to maximum effort.

• She set a new stakes record in each of the 8 stakes she won and yet she won these races by an average of 7 1/2L. How fast would she have run if she would have been pushed?

Zen and Ruffian are both great horses representing different times in our great sport. To knock one and say the other is better is absolutely wrong. There will never be another Ruffian just like there will never be another Zenyatta.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

m burry — Mon, 24 May 2010 14:53:15 GMT

I m so sick of these people who can't enjoy this great horse instead of moaning about her running all over the country and running only against males ... she's been thar, done dat ... the biggest male race the Breeders Cup Classic

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Dawn — Mon, 24 May 2010 14:21:55 GMT

I wish the Fatheadz people, or whatever the name of the company that makes those big football helmets would start making some racehorse images! Who wouldn't want to have a Zen, Rachel, Curlin, Sec,Slew, et al gracing their car, their wall or whatever? Can I get an amen?

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Jeff — Mon, 24 May 2010 13:55:35 GMT

Shane:

Are you all about the 3yr olds?

Your probably too young to remember when the 3yr olds took a backseat to the older horses.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

Shane — Mon, 24 May 2010 12:53:35 GMT

Johnny,

"Zenyatta has faced and destroyed the greatest competition ever thrown at a racehorse."

You cant be serious!

Affirmed/Alydar....just their campaigns against each other disputes your statement.

re: The Game-Changer of Racing: Zenyatta

NY Fan — Mon, 24 May 2010 12:50:32 GMT

Kevin A. Burke,

Great post!