Change Needs to Happen

re: Change Needs to Happen

Claudette — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:35:41 GMT

LDP,

Track surfaces have been under some debate as of late. Bill Mott, Drosselmeyer's trainer, was quoted back in 2009 in the Louisville Journal-Courier as saying; "track surface is the biggest aspect in trying to put horses in races they can win, with distance a close second," D. Wayne Lukas, trainer of four Derby winners, said; "I’m not a synthetic person. I think it's caused a nightmare for bettors. The very lifeblood of our industry is the gambling public, and I think they’ve been put at such a disadvantage trying to sort this thing out. I think it will run its course and maybe in a couple of years they’ll dig them all up and get back to natural dirt."

Wasn't it Pioneerof The Nile that had never run on dirt prior to the 2009 Derby and yet he finished 2nd to Mine That Bird?

re: Change Needs to Happen

Tim G — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 04:42:30 GMT

"a Triple Crown WINNER is just what this sport needs to put itself back into the public spotlight. That cannot happen with the way the Triple Crown is currently arranged and the horses, which have disappointed us for 32 years, have made it abundantly clear the Crown needs to change."

THIS is where everyone is getting the idea that you think changing the TC to get a TC Winner is what will save the game and is the point you are pressing.

If you watched the Belmont coverage (I DVR'd it) you should have become totally aware that the fear of making it easy to win is the biggest fear we have. Now if you would have suggested like Randy, Wayne, Penny etc that KEEPING the majority of horses in the series is the ONLY reason to make the changes? Then I might have accepted that. But the way you worded it above? You focused the importance on reviving interest with a TC winner and attaining that winner through the changes. I sure didn't read that you want to keep the fields together. Maybe watch the wording or leave the process and debate to those who are weighing the effects on the game, individuals and animals and how it affects everyone who is IN the industry.

re: Change Needs to Happen

LDP — Sat, 05 Jun 2010 17:34:47 GMT

Claudette,

I cannot stand synthetics. There is only one surface of synthetics that I believe would ever be a good replacement for dirt, if it comes to that and that would be the Cushion Track Holywood Park uses. It resembles dirt the most, with many horses that do well over it doing well over traditional dirt.

However I do not want synthetics to replace dirt. I believe that a well maintained dirt track, and Saratoga has proven this over the last couple of years, is just as safe as any synthetic track.

For the TC, IMO, it should become one or the other, and whatever surface they choose other tracks should convert. Because of this, IMO it would save so much more money and trouble to just keep everything dirt. Many of the main tracks in the country are dirt, and it is not their fault that the other tracks rushed into something that should've been studied more.

re: Change Needs to Happen

Somethingroyal — Sat, 05 Jun 2010 16:02:49 GMT

nmhiplains,

On the home page of bloodhorse.com there is a section that gives a complete history and showcases all of the Triple Crown winners.

re: Change Needs to Happen

Claudette — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 23:05:16 GMT

LDP,

Do you think racetracks that have switched to synthetics hinders or improves racing in general? How do you think it affects the TC with regards to some prep races being run on dirt and some on synthetics? What are your thoughts on Churchill Downs, Pimlico and Belmont being changed to synthetics or should they stay as dirt?

re: Change Needs to Happen

tvnewsbadge — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 22:05:13 GMT

nmhiplains asks "ANYONE out there know if the full field of EVERY Triple Crown Race is available or is the IMPORTANCE of a TC winner a result of the TV media age???"

Given the importance of "tradition" I'm sure there are charts for all the races but I don't know where.

I can attest though, that the Triple Crown has ALWAYS been a big deal, TV or not.

In fact, I think it was even bigger BEFORE TV became our dominate access point for sports.

I grew up in a family that didn't care squat about sports, and the great TC winners ran before my time, and yet even as a child I knew the names of War Admiral, Whirlaway, Assault and Citation and I knew they won a great championship called the Triple Crown.

How many average children today do you think have any idea who Affirmed and Seattle Slew were?

Heck, I work with adults from 25 to 40 who have no idea who Secretariat was until I school them on him and make them watch his Belmont on YouTube.

re: Change Needs to Happen

LDP — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 21:46:31 GMT

TV,

Laura is me, LDP. I am not saying we should have a TC winner every year or every other year, where did I ever say that? I do not want the TC to become easy, and I do not think it would be. Which is why I do not expect a TC winner. What I expect is fuller, better fields entered, that will have plenty of storylines that will capture the public. As of now, with horses skipping this race and that how can anyone pick a favorite at all? Maybe more time or a cut in field size for the Derby would give owners the incentive to enter their horses into all three. That way the general public will be able to recognize their picks and still root for them.

re: Change Needs to Happen

LDP — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 21:41:40 GMT

Tim,

The order is not the only thing I'm looking at. The time between races has not always been the same. In 1956, when Needles ran, there were 4 weeks between the Preakness and Belmont. The year before that there were 3 weeks between Derby and Preakness and 2 between Preakness and Belmont.

Either way anyone wants to spin things the TC has not been the same as it is now for over a century. Different things have changed, been tweaked, been shaken up. Nobody can deny that either way. The longest it has been in the set format of Derby Preakness Belmont, at CD, Pimlico, and Belmont, and had the 2 week/3 week spacing is 43 years. That is not debatable. It is a fact.

re: Change Needs to Happen

John T — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 04:52:47 GMT

Jermon

Thank-you for correcting yourself

it takes a good man to do that.E.P.

Taylor did indeed do a magnificent

job in ''Improving The Breed''I can,t even imagine what racing would have been like to-day if that small little Canadian Colt Northern Dancer had not of thundered down the stretch in that

first Saturday in May,1964 in what was the fastest Kentucky Derby ever run.It took an exceptional racehorse called Secretariat to beat it.

re: Change Needs to Happen

nmhiplains — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 04:08:24 GMT

ANYONE out there know if the full field of EVERY Triple Crown Race is available or is the IMPORTANCE of a TC winner a result of the TV media age???

re: Change Needs to Happen

nmhiplains — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 03:59:41 GMT

Are the race charts available for all the past Triple Crown Races???

Was SIR BARTON recognized as a Triple Crown winner in 1919 or was he recognized after Gallant Fox won all threes races in 1930????

Are we sure there were know fresh horses enter in these earlier races or do we only know Win, Place, Show???

re: Change Needs to Happen

LDP — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 02:29:11 GMT

Jermon,

First off, I would like to say that this response is not a rebuttal to your calling me a dreamer, I do not take offence to that.

I would just like to share that it's dreams that the world is made up of. Winning the Kentucky Derby is a dream for any trainer, jockey, or owner. To breed the next Spectacular Bid is the dream of any breeder, to become an Olympic Gold Medalist is the dream of any athlete. The difference is those who believing and not believing.

Those who ask/want, then believe they will receive what they ask will acheive. It's called the secret, and it works. I've used this technique many times, in smaller forms and in larger. I've used it to find my cell phone to get to work on time, then I used it to get into my first choice of college.

I want to breed and own the greatest horse of all time. I believe that one day, I don't know when, but I believe that I will, with every fiber of my being I believe I will. I want to influence this industry in such a way that people will become inspired to not fear change but embrace it and take new steps that will bring racing to the forefront of sports once again.

I've seen this work, and I've had it work for me. Some may call it luck that will run out, but thats not it at all. Anywho the point of this whole thing is that dreams are not just figments of the imagination, they are what every industry, every business, and every single sport is made of. It's just a matter of believing that they will come true.

re: Change Needs to Happen

Tim G — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 01:42:13 GMT

Sorry like I said on the other blog, need a new keyboard, Sir Barton in 1919.

re: Change Needs to Happen

Tim G — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 01:40:36 GMT

I was going to the races you READ about. The common denominator is the racing surface.

The Belmonts held at Aqueduct from 63-67 were due to restoration of Belmont Park. It was NEVER intended as a permanent fix or a permanent site. Why do you think racing is fighting to keep the Preakness at Pimlico?

Just like the Belmont being cancelled in 1911-1912 due to the illegality of gambling. In the 1800's it originated at Jerome and then moved and moved again. I know all this and more. The races themselves are a part of history with little blips on the radar causing some changes.

The TC has been in its current format since 1931. The distance of the Belmont has been in place since 1926. Yes prior to 31 they ran the race in a different order. Yes the TC wasn't 'officially' the TC until 1950 but the phrase was coined in 1930 and people who are IN racing and who have a sense of history date it back to Sir Barton in 1918 and all three legs go back to the 1800's.

I know this from my grandfather, before he passed. He SAW the races of the 1800's and early 20th century.

Don't try to tell a person who lived through it the 'history' of the races.

I just feel like a lot of people in racing do. Why do fans think they have a right to 'run' the show? If we change it, then I'm not sure if it will maintain the same feeling. I'm not going to try and change your mind because frankly what you are talking about is just talk and speculation. My WHOLE point to YOU is that you were talking about Wayne. The thought of the changes producing a TC winner never entered into the picture with his proposal.

My comments to Rob is that these races have been in place for over a hundred years. They weren't formally the TC, true. But everyone in racing looks at them in that respect and to change up surfaces and try to mimic another country? Where does that help our sport? Lets just change the whole dang thing to make sure we get a TC winner and then what will be said when that is just a one month recognition?

If someone in racing suggests it, they catch heat. A lot of people in racing are traditionalists and a lot of people who are fans are wanting quick fixes and don't even understand all of the ramifications.

I said I'm torn. I want to see the horses on the track for all 3. But to manipulate it to do so can and probably WILL affect the perception. Like, oh they made it easier so they could boost interest. Then it'll be ho hum, knowing the modern day 'fan'.

I guess that fans suggest these things to have some sense of importance. I have enough running my own life, business and managing my horses to try and revamp the oil industry or the NFL or anything else. Guess I just don't get it....

re: Change Needs to Happen

tvnewsbadge — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 01:40:06 GMT

LDP says,

"I am not trying to change your opinion, I'm tired of trying to get most of you to even see the pluses, and yes there are pluses."

I think the problem many of us have is that if there ARE pluses, they have not been presented clearly, with consistency and lack of contradictions and with data to back them up.

There are too many unanswered questions for many of us to see any virtue in this proposal.

For example, is Laura proposing that we have a Triple Crown winner every year? Every two years? How will she guarantee that?

If she DOESN'T want a TC winner every year, then what's the purpose of her changes?

And even with a dumbed down TC as she proposes, it is VERY likely that we can still go years without a winner. What does she do then?

How does she plan to keep the attention of the casual American sports fan for the 3 month series being proposed by some here?

What does she propose to do if a different horse wins the first two legs?

And then there are the questionable comparisons to other spots without considering the fact that they are "television friendly" (whereas horse racing is not) that is the REAL reason behind their popularity and not the fact that they moved the goal posts ten feet.

I mean this will all due respect, but when trying to bring about significant change in a beloved tradition, I think folks have an obligation to do more than float a trial balloon without some substantive arguments to keep it on course.

Assuming of course, they want people see "the pluses".

re: Change Needs to Happen

Jermon — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:32:30 GMT

John T:

You, of course, are correct, Nijinsky was a Canadian bred.

I dropped the North in front of American, just as I dropped

Race between Gravesend and Course. On second thought

I should have been specific and defined him properly as

Canadian. As a Canadian, you should be proud. My memory

of E.P. Taylor and Windfieds goes back before the coming

of Northern Dancer. Because of what he was attempting to

accomplish I thought of him on a par with the blood-bloods

of racing in New York. I always thought he epitomized the

expression "improver of the breed". Where are they today?

Because I lost touch with racing for awhile, I wasn't 100%

sure that Nijinsky was the last winner of the English TC.

You've clarified that. Thanks.

The writer of this blog, LDP, is a dreamer, and there is

nothing wrong with that. Keep on dreaming. Without dreams

what have we?

re: Change Needs to Happen

LDP — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 17:18:34 GMT

Tim,

The Triple Crown, the way it is now, has not been here for a century. The last time it was changed was in 1967, when the Belmont was run at Aqueduct. That is 43 years, not even half a century.

I am not trying to change your opinion, I'm tired of trying to get most of you to even see the pluses, and yes there are pluses. I'm just letting you know the actual facts, and that is the TC has not even been set in a structured format for 50 years yet.

re: Change Needs to Happen

LDP — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 17:13:42 GMT

soadapopkid,

Thank you very much. This just goes to show how even though some many not see eye to eye on issues, you can still be polite enough to take notice of the other's POV.

I knew people did not want change, this just shows how opposed to change many are, that they will not even consider anything but what is right in front of them. success has always been built on change, being one step ahead, thinking out of the box, adapting, and it's becoming clear that racing refuses to do any of that, even for a short period of time. For that, nothing else am I sorry.

re: Change Needs to Happen

Claudette — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 16:47:46 GMT

Tim G.

Maybe you should refrain from assuming that all the people commenting on this blog know nothing about the industry? Since when did this industry welcome suggestions ONLY from it’s owners, breeders and trainers, AND only from the U.S.? Does this sport not welcome Canadian horses too? This sport has many facets and arteries that keep it alive, seen and unseen, so with that being said, do we all have to own thoroughbred racehorses AND live in the U.S. to have a voice? That’s odd, when I went to the 2006 Kentucky Derby, they didn’t ask to see my citizenship in order to enter Churchill Downs. I’m sure you certainly don’t mind when we go to the racetrack, give them our hard-earned money, and cheer, hoot, and hollar on the rail at YOUR horse so you can receive a purse...Is that the only time we’re allowed to speak? You should be thankful that these people are taking the time to offer their ideas, comments and suggestions to create a positive change, because if this sport falls into oblivion YOU may be out of a job, a job that you have known and have been passionate about all your life. So instead of thwarting their comments and belittling them, why not look at how each in their own right could somewhere down the road make a difference. There isn’t one person on here that is suggesting that the sport should “go away” and that the industry should “give it up”, they are truly a group of compassionate people who want to see the sport thrive.

As far as your costs: $75-$100/day/horse? That’s it? That’s pennies to what I spend as a non-profit facility, at least you can recoup those costs if your horses do well on the track, so please repress the urge to insinuate that what I do is inexpensive and meaningless. Tell me something, when was the last time you personally cashed in a trifecta ticket, or took the winnings from one of your horses and donated the proceeds to an off-the-track thoroughbred rescue/rehab facility in your area? Because guess what, those very same horses that just made you money have an enormous chance of ending up at one of those facilities three years down the road, IF they’re lucky, if not that option, worse, a kill-pen heading for slaughter.

With regards to my Triple Crown idea whereby all horses that run in the Derby, run in the Preakness and the Belmont-I never said that the horses will be forced to run, but that a commitment be made by the owners and trainers to in fact run in all three, and yes, barring injury. Injuries happen, plain and simple, and some not even on the racetrack-Nashoba’s Key, Lawyer Ron, and Hesanoldsalt, just to name a few. This idea was to encourage breeders to start mating with stamina, endurance and longevity in mind, instead of breeding to try and surpass the latest, highest, Beyer Speed Figure. It was also suggested in order to bring some excitement back into the Triple Crown-all THREE races, not just the Derby. And no, I don’t want to see a Triple Crown winner every year, but it will at least level the playing field. But not to fret, this idea will never come to fruition anyways, it was just a thought. Alternatively, if indeed you have 50+ years of inside knowledge of thoroughbred ownership and all it’s facets, discuss WITH us why some of these suggestions may or may not work, instead of making everyone feel that we have no business being here. I’m personally not opposed to learning something new, because I’m well aware that I don’t have all the answers, nor do I claim to have all the answers.

As an added note; Just because I own and operate a standardbred rescue and rehabilitation facility doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy watching horse racing with the anticipation that this industry will experience some longevity. Both the standardbred industry and the thoroughbred industry will face the same fate without change. There’s drug abuse, illegal injecting, political disputes, leadership controversies, overbreeding, milkshaking, and the horse slaughter debate in BOTH industries and that’s what makes it the same “game”. The cost of bute or Lasix is the same price whether you’re giving it to a standardbred or a thoroughbred. The bottom line is that BOTH sports, in Canada and the U.S., are failing the very thing they are trying to promote — the horse —and that’s why you can put these two sports under the same category.

Change is inevitable, and it will happen. You may not like it and I may not like it, but history shows us that strong industries all share one thing in common; their continuance has been sustained by the positive ideas of its people...ALL its people, racehorse owners, non-racehorse owners, and even the “invisible” ones such as myself.

And by the way, I’m Canadian so I guess that truly means that I have no business commenting on change within your U.S. sport.

Your welcome for Northern Dancer by the way.

re: Change Needs to Happen

Tim G — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 14:35:06 GMT

John, I'm not trying to 'cut up' any racing. I just get so tired of the constant desire to change and be critical of a sport that I love and have been a part of for 50+ years.

I have a Northern Dancer in fact.

But tell me, you didn't like what I was saying, why do you think those of us who really ARE in racing in the US feel about people saying that we should change OUR racing to fit into a different box?

Each Triple Crown is valuable to each country.

I apologize if I offended, but maybe you can see where I'm coming from?

I was trying to present it as 'see you can try to change American racing, but how would you like it if I disrespected Canadian racing', to the person who just kept repeating it over and over.

I'm sorry Rob but I sincerely doubt you are involved in racing and want to change it to be a copy of some other country. That's what makes it interesting, EVERY country out there has there own version of a Triple Crown. Ours has been here for a century and it's recogninzed as one of the greatest accomplishments in sport.

Some things need to be changed. But the wholesale changes you guys are endorsing? NO one who is in racing at an upper level or even successful at the smaller tracks wants to do what you and those like you are suggesting. We'd rather it just go away.

re: Change Needs to Happen

Dr Drunkinbum — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:30:59 GMT

You cannot change the Triple Crown for 3 year olds. You may as well not even call it a Triple Crown if you do. If you change it, then it is over and history is frozen, and we'll have nothing to look forward to. We almost had a Triple Crown winner numerous times in the past 20 years as ROBERT so excellently pointed out. Be patient, it's coming and will mean a ton more than some watered down version. Racing's problems do not lie with the lack of a Triple Crown winner, and racing's problems would increase with a weak version of the Triple Crown.

re: Change Needs to Happen

sodapopkid — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 10:45:43 GMT

LDP: I want to commend you on a great blog you have here. This is a subject I think really needs focusing on..............If it will ever happen, Is anybody's guess.........

re: Change Needs to Happen

John T — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 04:32:11 GMT

Tim G

Thank the good Lord I would never go to the extremes to cut up

American racing the way you cut up

our Canadian racing.I feel so sorry for you that you have to disgrace so many American people who enjoy our Canadian breed such as the noted racehorse and sire Northern Dancer.

re: Change Needs to Happen

CRob87 — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 23:04:52 GMT

Tim G:

NO I won't be giving it up. And NO i'm "NOT" Canadian. I may be close to a Canadian as an Ohioan (currently), but i'm NOT Canadian.

And YES, I am a former Owner/Breeder and do have 20 years worth of real physical experience in this industry so i'm not just a mouse in a pocket....as you may like to think.

I just happen to think that Canada's version of the T.C. is very "Unique" and Better than our own because of the TURF factor.

Do I ever see it happening here ??? No way in H*%L. Not in my lifetime and especially NOT with the current leadership withing this industry.

I see our current so-called leadership in the same light as I see our FDA (Food and Drug Administration).

Very slow to change or approve anything and 20 years behind other Countries.

So you really don't have to fret about it because....NO.....I know it will never happen in my lifetime.

Claudette:

I think that someday the Industry will more than likely "Have To" have a unified Governing body. But, I also think that were slowly heading in that direction anyways. It might still take 20 years to get to and probably "Only" as a "Must Do" kind of thing as our Industry seems to keep sliding downward.

But, someday we should and do need to !!!

re: Change Needs to Happen

Tim G — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 20:25:18 GMT

Oh and by the way Claudette? You are not only not in the winners circle 'collecting the purses' but you are also not paying $75-100 per day per horse, vet bills, shipping bills, entry fees, farrier bills, jock fees, pony fees etc.

Not to mention buying or breeding and raising these animals.